The Kids are Gone, Now What? | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hello, and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. And you guys, we are continuing in our series about the seasons of marriage, and we're going to talk about the empty nest season, or what Dave likes to refer to as naked season. Naked season, because that's. That is his dream.

Once that nest gets empty, it's a naked nest. Clothes are going on the floor.

That's right. That's how he said naked rooms.

The naked nest.

Yeah. It's like kids. You gotta call every time before you come over, know what you're gonna find. That's right. All right, before we dive in, we're gonna share another review with you. This is from Tara Babb. And. And it's an. It's entitled so grateful for this. And this person says, precious couple. Such great information here for all things marriage. They cover so many issues that the church isn't talking about. I've learned more from this podcast about marriage than I expected, and I listen weekly. Well, I just love that. Like, I love it when you get more out of it than you were even expecting. That's awesome. And if you are getting a lot out of this PODC for you to help spread the word, and the best way you can do that is to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Yeah. And it really does mean a lot. It not only encourages us. We read those things, but it does help other people discover what you've discovered. So maybe they, too, will learn more than they were expecting, and it could make a difference in their faith and in their marriage. And so thanks so much for helping spread the word. We love and appreciate you guys. We've got a great topic today, so let's dive in. I'm excited about today's conversation. And next week, of course, when we're going to sit down with our dear friends Sean and Lynette Reed, who are living the empty nest as new empty nesters, and they're going to have some great insights for us. This is the first season we've discussed that we have not yet experienced. So, of course, in the early years of marriage, we had marriage without kids in the home, so we get that. But it's going to be totally different when now we've had kids, and those kids have grown and flown, and I'm honestly looking forward to that. I mean, I know we'll miss them in some ways, but I think if you build your marriage all the way through the journey of parenting. Then once you reach that empty nest, it should be a time of celebration, a time of renewal. And yet so many couples, they've focused, I think, so much on the kids that they've drifted apart through those parenting years. And then the empty nest is something that terrifies them because their whole identity has been wrapped up in parenting. And they don't know who they are as husband and wife or even sometimes as an individual without having a kid in the home dependent on them. And so we want to talk about this season. And like all seasons of marriage, there are unique opportunities and unique challenges. But this empty nest season is going to be the longest season of your marriage. And so how do we make the most of it?

Let me tell you, this is near and dear to my heart. Not only because, I mean, we're like 10 years out from this. I mean, we still have young kids at home.

First one, even this fall for college. We've got, you know, a 10 year gap between oldest and youngest.

We do, but we are gonna launch one. But also we have so many friends who are now empty nesters. They're like very young, new empty nesters. And so some of my closest friends are. And, you know, I was actually just on a walk the other day with one of my best friends, and she just launched her last child and her and her husband are like, so enjoying this. And we were just processing all this because she was saying, you know, some of her friends right before they launched their last child, she said that her friend, like, had a job lined up because this woman had been a stay at home mom for some time, and she knew that if she didn't have something lined up to kind of put her energy towards that, it might mess with her, you know, because this woman was like, I just need something to kind of put my energy and talents towards. And so her friend had, like, set up a job and now is working that job. And it's worked really well for her. But my friend who I was talking to said, you know, she's been a stay at home mom for a long time, and right now in this season, we, her husband works a busy job. And she said, you know, I feel like it's been really cool because my husband, who has always worked this busy job, is coming home to just me. And then we can decompress together and go on walks and work in our yard. They have a lot of land together and they're dreaming together. They're getting ready to go on trips. And she's like, you know, I See where some of my friends are getting a job. But right now I feel like my role is just to be with my husband. And so the reason I share this with you is I think it's gonna look different for everyone. I think that there's no one size fits all. And I think what one of the biggest things you do as a married couple is say, you know, what. What do we want life to look like in this season that is. Is going to benefit our marriage the most? Because this is a season where you can be laser focused on your marriage. It doesn't mean that you're not concerned with your kids, but it's not to the same degree. I mean, you want them. You know, he used the term grown and flown. There's a great page on Instagram, Instagram called at grown and flown. And they have wonderful information about this season in particular. But, you know, that is the goal. And that term comes from, like, birds leaving the nest. And so that's our goal, is we want them to go fly and fly on their own and soar and do all the things.

Yeah, that's the win.

And it's a win. And it doesn't mean, I mean, we're there. You know, Sean and Lynette, I've heard them, and they're going to go into great detail about this in our next episode, but they use the term, you know, you become advisors. You know, you're an advisor in this season, and I love that because we want our kids to come to us. But. But really what we need to be doing more than anything in this season is really rekindling our marriage. You know, hopefully it's still kindled. Like, it's got that flame going, but you can do things to make it even better. And when I was walking with my friend and she's describing all this, she was just glowing and talking about how much she is enjoying this season and discovering new things about her husband and how, you know, she was like, ashley, I'm so glad that we didn't put our marriage on the back burner when we were raising our kids, because this is such an exciting season. But she said, I have friends who I love dearly who love their spouse. I mean, it's not like they don't love their spouse, but they have maybe been hyper focused on the kids and really lost track of each other.

Yeah.

And they're not enjoying.

They're going to their friends for emotional connection.

Right.

They're going to their kids for their, like, primary relationship and their identity in some ways. And Then the spouse is just kind of like a. Like a distant partner in all of this. Like helping to shuttle kids to practices and helping pay the bills.

And they don't know them. Like, they feel like they don't know them. And I want to say to you, watching and listening, if that's you, if you're like, man, we did put it on the back burner. Oh, my gosh, like, I don't even know this person. What do I do now? We're not saying this to shame you or make you feel like. Like you're done. We're telling you this to level with you and say, listen, take an assessment of where you are. And if this is you and you feel like there is barely a pilot light going there, or maybe there is none. Like, you can't even. You're like, there's no. Not even a flicker. Like it's a cold home, you know, Our relationship feels very like a cold place. I don't even. I don't even really want to have a conversation that is a crucial. A crucial moment, you know, you need to recognize that. But you have a golden opportunity and the time now to invest in your relationship, to relearn each other, to rekindle that fire that you know you once had. Because I think we lose track of that. Like, you once had. Had this. Like, you married this person for a reason. You had children with this person for a reason. You do know them. Okay, yes, but they're not the same person you married. Okay? None of us are. And so instead of dreading getting to know this person, get excited about it, try new things. You can flip the script a little bit because you have the time now and you can give your marriage the focus that it needs.

It's so, so good. What my goal is to not be like this neighbor that we have.

Oh, gosh, I think they're doing better.

I think we're doing that. We don't know these people. They're not like our next door neighbors. But we go on walks a lot. And as we go on walks, we've noticed that several houses down there, we've got these neighbors that are clearly empty nesters seem to be in, like, early retirement. And the husband is. Every time I walk by, he's outside.

Doing something, which I love being outside, so I get it.

Fiddling in the yard, doing something. So you would think that his yard would look like a manicured golf course with the amount of time because he's out there all the time just. Just fiddling, you know, like, picking at the grass, picking at the grass or doing this. And that thing is his yard doesn't even look good. I mean, he's just out there, I think because he doesn't want to be in the house. You see his wife's cars there, and he's outside all day doing something.

I've seen her on occasion, like peeking through the front door. But yeah, Dave, Dave. And we don't. Again, we don't know what's actually happening here, but.

Yeah, but we just think, you know, like, whatever's going on there, they. They don't seem to want to be together a whole lot. And maybe again, we're totally misreading this. Maybe the guy just loves being in his yard, even though he's clearly not really working on stuff because the yard doesn't even look good. But. But I don't know. I don't mean to poke fun at the neighbors. I'm just saying, like, we want to create the kind of relationship where we want to be together. Like, we've invested so much in this friendship, this bond, this partnership, this love, that we want to keep having new adventures, that we never run out of things to talk about, that we're continuing to grow and to explore and to learn more about each other.

Cold, sweetie.

I'm sorry. I don't know what I was doing here.

He was like, give me, please. Yeah, if you're watching, you're like, dave's cold.

Well, we are, you know, dressed warm. Yeah, I'm wearing.

I want to point out your new gear, swag.

If you're watching on YouTube, you can see like, you know, brand new XO merchandise. The little hood.

It looks good on you.

And we're here in the EXO studio in the marriage capital of the world, South Lake, Texas, where our brand new headquarters is almost complete.

Cannot wait.

You guys go to xobuilding.com and you can see what's going on. And very soon come and visit in person and you can come to live studio recording, which has not been any available in the past. We're gonna have the setup for all that. We would love for you to come and experience it. Come have a coffee in our exopress cafe. It's gonna be amazing. Thank you, guys. For those who've, who've given, because this is a. This is a nonprofit ministry and it's. I mean, income is largely because of just the generosity of donors whose lives have been impacted by the ministry. And so those who've given sacrificially, generously to help make this building possible. So that we can keep doing things to reach marriages for generations to come. Thank you guys so much. I know this is like a wild tangent from where, like, we were.

I was just comment. You look cold. And I'm like, I'm sorry.

And I'm not, you know, I'm getting to the age.

We are not that old yet. Okay.

And also my thyroid doesn't work. And apparently this is true. That can make you more susceptible to, you know, temperature changes and stuff. But, you know, I feel good. I'm not using that as an excuse. I'm pumped full of so many medications and supplements that it's like I've overcome it.

I feel like, well, let's go back to being empty nesters and our neighbor. So we were talking about our neighbor.

Yeah.

The goal is, honestly, maybe he's like, totally happy and just loves being out outside.

He doesn't look happy though, is why. It's the other part of it that is true.

He looks disgruntled.

Yeah. It's like he doesn't want to be there. It looks like a scene from Shawshank Redemption where you're in the prison yard.

Oh, my gosh.

And you get your 30 minutes of prison yard time and it's like you're happy to be in the yard because it's better than the cell, but you're still in a prison yard and so you're not that happy about it. And that's.

We gotta.

That's kind of the look on his face. And maybe again, we're totally misreading the situation and some of this is just in jest, but we don't want ever your marriage to feel like a prison. We want it. It should be the freest, most joyful place. And yes, every marriage is gonna go through difficult struggles and difficult seasons, but overall, like you guys, this. This empty nest season should be a time of celebration and joy. What I would like to talk about while we're on this topic is the very real and fairly common dynamic of when each spouse enters into the empty nest season with very different perspectives about it and expectations. And expectations. So, like, you got one spouse super excited, thinking they're just going to be naked in the house all the time and it's going to be, you know, just sex fest. And. And they're pumped. The other spouse grieving, the children are gone, they're not happy, they don't want to celebrate, they can't be cheered up. And then you've got these vastly different perspectives, and that can create tension. And how do you Navigate that. How do you find common ground there and still give each other space to process the new season in your own individual way?

I know we've seen this. Like, we've seen this dynamic, and I think what we have to remember is we're not the same people, you know, and it's okay. I mean, just being a man and a woman, you're different, you know, and so if one is grieving more than the other, that's not a bad thing. Just the fact that you're grieving your kids moving on doesn't mean that you have a bad marriage. You guys, I feel like I can tell that there's going to be parts of me that are grieving that just because it's a. It's a new season, you know, and so you're just. It's not that you're sad about moving into this new season. It's just that, like, wow, life went by so fast, and I think for some of us, that's kind of where we are. Like, I mean, I got really sentimental when our first child got his license, and I'm sure that I'll be sentimental when he goes off to college. And. And it's just, you know, it's not that I'm not excited for him. I mean, I think I'm more excited than sad, but it is. It's just kind of marking the moment of, like, wow, man, that. That went by faster than I was expecting. But I think when we sit in our grief, that's where it becomes a problem, because then we can't move on. You know what I'm saying? We can't. It's hard for us. We just. We're just kind of stuck in the sadness. And then we get mad at our spouse if they're not sad, too, or vice versa. Like, we get mad at our spouse. Like, why are you still grieving? Why aren't you happy?

What's wrong with you? Or why. Why aren't you sad? Like, you know, you're. You're stealing my. It's like when somebody's grieving and you try to cheer them up too fast. The Bible describes it as, like, trying to take the coat or the blanket away from somebody who's really sad. You know, cold. You know, it's. We think we're helping them, but it's actually causing them more discomfort and distress.

Right?

And the Bible says, don't sing songs to a heavy heart. And I love that imagery. It's like we're trying to cheer up this person when really, what they need is a safe place to grieve and process.

Right.

But if somebody stays in grief too long or they're grieving in a season when they should be celebrating, then that does need to be addressed, right?

If it's just lingering. Cause, I mean, I think what I'm trying to say here is give each other the time to process however they're processing. We can't kind of put, you know, be frustrated just because our spouse isn't processing it the same way we are. I think being a safe place to process those things in the way that we're going to process them, it's just part of marriage. But I do think we also, if we notice in our spouse that they are stuck, we have to lovingly say, like, I'm concerned because you can't seem to move past this. And that's when we might need to reach out to a counselor. You know, our exo marriage mediators here, they. They all. Nearly all of them have launched kids. Like, nearly all of them have walked through this. And then they're also highly educated and mediating. But they would be the perfect people to talk you through this. Like, they would be a great resource. And again, you can reach out to them by going to exomarriage.com help. But I think that it's okay if you need help. You guys, like, just in talking to the people that we work with and the work that we do with marriages, but also our friends who are entering the season, it is very common to not be on the same page in this, in how we approach the empty nest. And that doesn't mean you're doomed. I just think that. I think that this launching hits everybody a little differently.

It does.

And so I think reaching out for help instead of waiting and just hoping your feelings catch up, I think it's good to reach out sooner rather than later.

And so if you would benefit from talking to one of our mediators, and I honestly think everybody would benefit. You don't have to be in absolute crisis. Even though if you are in crisis, certainly give them a call, set up. They meet with you via Skype or phone. It's very private. You know, you don't even have to leave your house. And they are so gifted, so trained, so encouraging. This team of mediators, we have reach out to them, but it doesn't have to, like I said, be a crisis. It could just be we need some help preparing us to move through this new season. We're in some uncharted waters. We're in a place where we've never been. And we want to talk to somebody who's been here before.

Right.

And that's just wisdom. You know, the Bible says there's wisdom in seeking a multitude of counselors, counseling because when you are talking to someone who's been someplace where you have not yet been, it helps prepare you for that season. So to set up a call or even just to learn more about the resources and options available, go to xomarriage.com help and you will see all the options there. Just schedule one phone call. It could be life changing or at the very least it could be really encouraging to you just to give you some perspective, to let you know, you know what, we're not in this alone. We've got some tools to move forward in a healthy way. And I promise you, whoever on the team you get, they are gonna be an encouragement to you.

They will be. And I think too remember, like we've talked about before, that your kids are still kind of looking at you and watching you and are influenced by you. And so if you are having a hard time, be careful not to put that burden on them to be the fixer. I think that sometimes, you know, us as parents are like, oh my gosh, don't go to that college so far away. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Don't leave me here with your dad. You know, like there's people that will like, don't leave me alone here with your father or with your siblings. You're gonna, you know, we can't handle it. And I, and I get the sentiment, I get it because it does change your family dynamic. Like launching each child is going to change your family dynamic. Like things are not going to look the same, Holidays are not going to look the same, but that doesn't mean they're going to be worse. It's just going to be different. But I think sometimes when we just hold on so tightly, we, we're really, you know, we're not doing, we're doing them a disservice. We're not helping them. Like that's not fully launching them. We really have to go open handed and say like, Lord, you know, please guide them, please be with them. Obviously we're advising them, we're praying through it. And we know our children, like if we don't think that they, we think that it wouldn't be good for them to go far because of something inside of them, that's one thing. But when we are holding them back just because we're afraid of being in a house with just us and our spouse. Big, big red flag. Like, that's. That's putting a burden on our child that they're not supposed to bear. They are not supposed to fix our marriage.

They are not.

They're not the one holding our marriage together. It's just us and God, guys. It's just us and God. And so we have to make sure that we're not putting these. These unspoken burdens on our kids. And sometimes we don't even see it. So, like, let this be the wake up call.

So, so good, guys. And this isn't the end of this conversation. We want you to tune in next Monday, where we're going to sit down with our friends Sean and Lynette Reed, who not only are really, really gifted and wise at helping people walk through these seasons of transition, but they've done it themselves, and they have their own set of resources to help you do it. They have a podcast called Marriage in Transition, a great book called Marriage in Transition. So if you find yourself in the transition into empty nesting, or really any major transition in marriage, and life's full of those, next week's episode is gonna help you so much. We love our friends, the Reeds, and they've always got so much wisdom to share with us. But thank you so much for tun. We appreciate you. Don't forget the midweek episode coming on Wednesday. Those are always a lot of fun as well. They kind of put a little pep in the middle of your week, and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.