The Right Friends | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave and Ashley Willis

If you've listened to our Naked Marriage podcast for any length of time, you know that we are huge fans of Christian counseling, and we have both benefited from individual Christian counseling throughout our entire marriage. And we know that it can benefit you as well. You know, we talk a lot about marriage counseling, but there's something about finding inner healing as an individual, and it will really help your marriage in the long run. And so we have an amazing resource to share with you.

Yeah, I'm so excited that we can finally offer this. And we found the right partners at Faithful Counseling, and they do an amazing job to connect with you from home. You don't have to go sit in an office wherever you are. I know a lot of people write us and say there's not a good Christian counselor in our area. Now, wherever you are, as long as you have Internet access, you can get access to great Christian counseling. Just go to this site. It's getfaithful.com nakedmarriage and there's a 10% discount exclusively for you as a Naked Marriage podcast listener. But you do have to go to this specific site. It is getfaithful.com nakedmarriage and like Ashley just said, both of us from personal experience can attest to the inner healing and the freedom that can be experienced through good personal Christian counseling. You can experience this as well in your marriage. Hey, welcome to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis. On this podcast, we address the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love. Got a great topic for you today that is about friendship and specifically about why and how we need to develop and cultivate and be very intentional about our friendships and what that can do to our marriage specifically. So stick around for that. And then a great, great question at the end. I love our Q and A time at the end of these episodes. And today's question is really, really a good one. Helping a couple navigate a complex situation. But before we get there, My Beautiful Bride is going to share a review and thank you. For those who leave reviews on iTunes or YouTube or wherever you're listening to this, we appreciate these reviews.

We do. And today's review comes from C. And it's ENTLED Great resource. Five stars.

Thank you.

And it says, great resource for all married couples. Each season as we've navigated through something, I always check here to see if they've addressed what we're walking through. It's great to find a marriage podcast where they honor God fully and point couples to the cross. That's so awesome. You know, and we hope we're always that. That resource and that. That place where you can find encouragement and perspective whenever you're navigating things. And that's why we love it when you write reviews. We love it when you write us. You can, you can actually write us on the marriage page, on Facebook, if you just look up marriage, you can write us on Instagram. Avanashleywillis and it really keeps us on the pulse of what everybody's dealing with. And so we do try to address all different kinds of marriage issues. And so I really appreciate her saying that. It's helping her.

Yeah, we're honored, honored to read things like that. That really keeps us going. Well, let's dive into today's episode in the work we do with married couples. And just being around a lot of different couples, kind of studying the art of marriage, so to speak. I'm convinced that one of the greatest indicators of where a marriage is headed for good or bad, is in the couples that a couple chooses to hang around. In other words, the friends that you choose are going to shape your future for good or for bad. And so I can't overemphasize the importance of having healthy friendships with people who love you and are for your marriage and are going to strengthen you. And the Bible talks a lot about this in Proverbs, which is one of the books of the Bible that's all about wisdom and has great insight into relationships. It says, just like iron sharpens iron, you know, a friend can sharpen a friend. We need people in our lives who sharpen us, who keep us at our best, and we can do the same for them. And without that, or with people in our lives who are potentially a negative influence that can sabotage a marriage just as fast as anything.

Absolutely. And this is for our individual friends, but also for our couple friends. And I think that, you know, when we're engaged, we can often see kind of which of our friends are really excited about marriage in general, even if they're not dating anybody yet. And we can also see the friends that are not so excited. And, you know, we were actually just talking to one of our team members here at Exomarriage, and she was saying, you know, a lot of times there's this mentality that once you're married that you're just gonna suddenly disappear from all of those friendships you had in the past and you're never gonna see em again. And that's really so false, because if they're truly a good friend, they're gonna want what's best. For you, they're gonna hopefully love your spouse, too, and you're gonna have time to see them. It may. But it doesn't mean you disappear from your previous life. It just means your life gets that much richer. And so just even that mentality. And she was saying, a lot of times it's with the guys, and I would have to agree. And I remember when we got married, I mean, there was a little bit of this. We were the first of our friends, of all of our friends, to get married. Actually, I think I did have one friend get married right before us. And the rest of them, it was like nobody was even engaged at the time.

They treated us like aliens.

They thought we were so weird.

They didn't know what was going on. They were like, you're married.

They were like, why? Why are you getting married? And we're like, well, we love each other, and we know we're supposed to be together, and we're gonna get married, you know? And I remember, though, Dave had this big group of guy friends that he had had since high school who were all groomsmen in our wedding. And I know they kind of had that thought, right, sweetie? I mean, they were kind of like, dude, I don't know if we're ever gonna see you again, right?

And in those early years after our marriage, even though I love those guys, my life had taken such a different trajectory. And it wasn't that I felt in any way like. Like, better than them or anything like that, but I just realized that to hang around them a lot was actually going to be counterproductive to my marriage. And then I was making. I was making a decision to put my marriage first, to make you, as my wife, my best friend, and to try to be in relationships with people who would help support that value system. And they were in a place where I don't think they would have actively sabotaged it. I mean, they were, you know, they were good guys, but they had, at that time, a different value system, and they were about different things. And to be around them a lot would have come at the expense of our marriage. And so we had to be intentional about saying, like, all right, you know, not that I'm completely cutting people out of my life, but I'm going to see those folks less probably than I did simply because I feel like their mindset is so different than mine that it wouldn't be good for our marriage. And so in that space, that vacuum space where we need relationships, let's be intentional together about building friendships, cultivating relationships, reconnecting maybe with old friends who now are in a place where their faith and their value system is in line with our own, and we can encourage each other on that journey. And in those early years of marriage, we started that habit, and I'm so glad that we did. We started reconnecting with some old friends. We started cultivating some new friendships together, both as couples, and then also individually. Me with some guys, you with some ladies. And it takes time and it takes work. Community is so important. And all through the Bible, we're called to community, we're called to healthy relationships. And so much of the faith that we're called to can only be lived out. It only makes sense within the context of community and within the context of being connected to a healthy church specifically. And so we just, right from the get go, said, you know, we're. We're going to do that. We're going to plug into a church, we're going to start serving, we're going to start building friendships. And I'm convinced that early in our marriage, that's probably the single healthiest thing that we did to put us on the right track.

Absolutely. And I remember in that time, Dave felt very conflicted because these guys, they're good guys, but they were kind of in just a very different phase of life. You know, dating a different girl every day and partying quite a lot. And Dave was just like, this is not what I want my life to be. I mean, I'm a married man now, and I just take my faith very seriously. And I will say fast forward maybe a decade, you would run into those guys, and they're in a totally different phase now. You guys have a lot more in common because they, too, are married and have families and they're taking their life more seriously. So, I mean, a lot of times it's like a maturity thing, and we're not judging at all. It's just that you have to be wise to what is going to be a good influence and what is going to be a not so good influence. And I remember, though, it was hard on you because you felt torn a little bit. But again, you know, we can't. You can't feel guilty about putting your marriage first. Like, that's what we're called to do.

And anybody that makes you feel guilty about that is not. They don't have your best interest at heart. They have an agenda for your life that is to please them and not what's best for you. Because God's plan for marriage is the moment you're Married, then that law of priority says, my spouse is now and always the most important person and priority in my life, right underneath my relationship with God himself. That, and nobody, nobody can come and sabotage that. And if they try, then that person is choosing not to be a part of your life.

Right. And I remember, for me personally, there were some women in my life that I think that deep down they wanted to be married. And, you know, seeing us married brought up feelings of disappointment. I remember this specifically. And they distanced themselves from me because I had a husband. And they were feeling like, I don't know when I'm going to get married. And they felt very disillusioned. And I remember it hurt my feelings, and I didn't know what to do. I mean, it wasn't about me. It was something they were dealing with, and they had to kind of heal from that on their own. And that really kind of hurt my heart. Cause I thought, gosh, what did I do wrong? And I would try to pursue the friendship, but they would pull away. And friendships are complicated like that. Like, sometimes there's just different seasons where you're gonna be closer to people and maybe not so close to people. And I think we just have to pray through that, do the best we can. But if they're ultimately putting distance there for that season, that's just something that they're dealing with. And I remember, you know, both Dave and I are going through kind of this transition, knowing how important friendships are. And we ended up. We had moved across town, and so our church that we had been going to was, like. It was pretty far away, like 40 minutes away. And we were like, we gotta find a church closer. And so we did. We found a church that was closer to us. And anytime you move churches, anybody who knows this, it's hard. It's hard to reconnect. It's hard to kind of find your place, like, especially if you've been accustomed to serving in the church. This is before Dave was a pastor, but when you're trying to just, you know, find. Find your place in the church and who you want to hang around, what small group you want to be and all those things, it's very hard. It's very, very hard.

The new kid at middle school for the first day all over again, and.

You feel like, do they get me? Do they not get me? Do I get them? Like, you know, are we gonna hang out? Are we kindred spirits? And so we kind of did that dance for a while. But this church in particular, I will never forget you Know, we came in there, we were clearly the new people, like newbies and newlyweds at that. And churches love newlyweds. They're like, yes, new people and your newlyweds, we can get you all plugged in. And so I remember this guy, his name is actually Jimmy Carter, which is like the coolest name that he has, a president's name. But he's a friend of ours and he happened to be the youth pastor there. And he noticed us being so new, and he came up and he's like, hey, guys, I'm Jimmy. You know, what's going on? You're new here. Tell me more about you. And we're like, yeah, we're new. We really just wanna plug in. We wanna, like, find where you guys need help. And he was like, well, let me tell you, I have the perfect place for you to plug in. You guys are young and you have energy and you wanna be involved. Why don't you volunteer with youth ministry? And so we plugged right in. And just because we were open to plugging in right in the early years of our marriage, it was instant friendships because we ended up meeting couples from all walks of life, different aged couples. I mean, not everybody was in our same season of life even, but we all kind of locked arms. And basically Jimmy was, you know, starting a new kind of youth ministry and needed help building it. And we spent so much time with these people and just trying to dream about what God had for this church and the youth in this community. And it was amazing. It was called the Lighthouse. And those are some of. Like, I just treasure those years because it had so much to do with the community and the friendships that we were around. And we learned so much from those people. Like, I think about, you know, Robin and her husband. They were a couple that were about 10 years ahead of us, and they'd bring their kids to all the meetings and I would just watch them and how they love their children and led their children. And they had such an influence on us. And we still are friends till this day. You know, we live far away now, but anytime we run into them, it's like we're just picking right back up where we left off. And so, you know, as I talk about this, I know I'm kind of going on and I'm getting excited as I'm talking because it just is one. It's just one of those sweet seasons of our marriage where I do feel like it was just one of those times when I saw so clearly what great influence the right friendships can have on you. And I'm so thankful because we came into that season kind of sad. I mean, we were a little bit like, you know, we've kind of lost some of our close friends and not because we wanted to, but, you know, what's God doing here? And then he brought this new season of new friendships and it's just, it's so sweet.

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And you've gotta be open in every season to what, what is God doing in this season? And continue to cultivate old friendships.

Absolutely. As much as you can.

As much as you can. But always be looking to new friendships. It's like, you know, my mom would, would sing us this little song from like girl scouts and I'm not gonna sing it, but it was make new friends but keep the old one is silver and the other gold.

It's been around Forever I was a Brownie. I totally sang that song.

Yeah, that's good stuff. Words to live by. And I do think there's a ton of wisdom in that simple little phrase, that little song. But also, like Ashley said earlier, there are gonna be some friends that are great friends, and they were in your life for a season, and you might transition in and out of the level of closeness you have with them. And that's not abandoning them, that's not them abandoning you. That's just. That's just life, you know? And as followers of Jesus, we've got all eternity to have this reunion where we're going to be in kind of perfect connection with each other forever. But life takes us different directions and different seasons. And you can't always keep the same level of connectedness with every person.

Right? It doesn't mean you don't care.

It doesn't mean you don't care. And you can free yourself up from the pressure of that. So invest in friendships, but don't beat yourself up if you're one of these people that you're like, I've got a never ending list of folks that I feel like I have to call every week. And I'm always letting people down because that's really coming from a place of being a people pleaser. Not trying to be a good friend, but really a people pleaser, which is a personality flaw, really. So you can be a good friend without feeling like you've got to do everything and be all things to all people, because you just can't. And remember that your spouse is your best friend. So you gotta make that important as well. And so in every season, because I'm kind of like getting off track a little bit here, but in every season, be very intentional, kind of take an inventory of right where you are and saying, right now, in this season of life, am I surrounding myself with people who love me, love God, love my spouse, and reform my marriage? And if I don't have that in my life, both in terms of couple friends who we can hang out with together, and same gender friends that I can hang out with to really sharpen me, and especially guys. Let me just challenge you for a second. I think that we, as men, we can learn a lot from our wives in this area. For the most part, not to make a broad generalization, but for the most part, and there are plenty of statistics to back this up, women tend to connect more naturally, more easily and more consistently with individual friends and groups of same gender friends than guys tend to do, you know, I heard a comedian talking recently, and he was like. He was like, you know, men don't have friends. They only have the husbands of their wives friends. And then he said, jesus biggest miracle is that he had 12 best friends and none of them were his wife's husband's friend or whatever. Oh, gosh. And I laughed because I, you know, I thought, well, Jesus is modeling for us that guys are answering. We need to be intentional about having men in our life that can sharpen us and help us in our faith, and we can do the same for them. And we need to be intentional about that. That doesn't mean that we're going off with the guys every night and that we've got a different fantasy football league we're in every single night of the week, and that we're constantly away from home in these guy settings. But we do need to intentionally invest in and foster a few very specific, very rooted male friendships. And then on the flip side of that, we need to be very careful of developing or continuing to maintain close friendships with the opposite sex. And, you know, and when we got married, you know, we both had some friends of the opposite sex that were, like, you know, really platonic. But those relationships, we had to be very intentional about putting some distance there simply because as a married person, a certain level of closeness with someone of the opposite sex, it just. It isn't appropriate. And there's nowhere it can go. You can't continue to develop that because that level of intimacy you're developing, it comes a point where, number one, it can lead you into temptation. Number two, you're actually investing emotional energy in someone, and that energy and time rightfully belongs to your spouse. And so we just have to be really, really careful about that.

Absolutely. And it's out of respect not only for your spouse, but also for that person. And whether or not they're married, you know, for them, even if they're single, just, it's out of respect for them because you want to be beyond reproach. You don't want to mess with fire. You don't want to bust up your family. We always say, nobody sets out to go bust up their family and have an affair and just break their spouse's heart. It happens very subtly, and it happens when we don't put boundaries in place. I mean, it's like we're going a little bit out of bounds, and we're like, but I see him like my brother, and before you know it, your brother's looking real hot, and you're like, he gets Me, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just, we tell ourselves these things, like, oh, it's just platonic. And then you're having these conversations with this person of the opposite sex that you're not having with your spouse and you're like, oh, but they just get me. And it's like, stop, you know, focusing on the fact that this person of the opposite sex at work or wherever your neighbor gets you, go home and talk to your spouse and put some boundaries there. Because all of us, we, we can all be tempted. We all need to have boundaries. There's not anybody that is just never gonna, you know, be tempted to connect with somebody else of the opposite sex. You have to put boundaries in place.

Absolutely.

Or, you know, some really, some relationships, you know, outside of marriage are gonna happen and you're gonna be very filled with regret and, you know, really hurt your marriage in the process. You know, I wanna talk specifically about same sex friends because I do think that, you know, we can have all different kinds of friendships. And I feel like friendships do kind of fall in categories where there's some where we go really deep and there's some where it's just like we have fun together, we enjoy a certain, like we enjoy shopping together, we, you know, go to Zumba together, whatever it is. So there's different levels of friendship. And I think the ones that are the deep ones, like the ones where they speak into your life and you speak into their life, we have to be so intentional. And I feel like with those particular friendships and when you've had them a long time, we really wanna hold onto that because you have history and it's awesome to have history with someone and you do feel like they get you maybe more than someone else. Cause they've kind of walked with you through maybe even childhood and young adulthood and things like that. But I think where it gets really tricky is if, when you're engaged and when you're married that this friend feels a little jealous. Like it can happen sometimes where this friend who you've spent all this time with all of a sudden isn't kind of your number one friend anymore. Because your spouse is, is your number one friend, is your best friend. And sometimes even our same sex friendships, they can get jealous and they can even say things like, well, here you go again, you know, she's got you wrapped. You know, he's trying to control you, things like that. And I'm not talking about situations where there literally is like a control issue, but just when this friend just Tends to always want to take you away from your spouse. That's really not being a good friend.

No, it's not.

And so we need to kind of tune into that. And if you see that one of these longtime friends always seems to be jealous of how you're spending time with your spouse, or maybe says negative things about your spouse, or maybe always is trying to pull you away, I would put some boundaries there because they're clearly not for your marriage.

Man, that is good advice. One other little nugget I'll add. Cause it's something we've talked about a lot, is that as you're looking for good friends and as you're trying to be a good friend yourself, a good friend is someone who's loving, encouraging, kind, but it's also someone who loves you enough to speak a difficult truth. And we won't dive deep into this. We've talked about it so much. But, you know, there's one specific example that Ashley's talked about live at our XO conferences, where she was a part of actually saving a friend's marriage. Because that friend just announced that, hey, we're getting a divorce. No big deal. It's the best for everybody. And Ashley and one other Christian female friend that happened to be there, you know, they spent the next few days on that girls trip just speaking truth, difficult truth, saying, you know, you need to fight for this marriage. You know, you know what God's plan for marriage is. And it's not just to give up the moment things get hard and that your best days can be ahead. And we're going to pray for you and we're going to pray with you. And it's not what that friend wanted to hear, but in the moment. It was the turning point that actually set their marriage on a new trajectory and saved it. And now, years later, they're happier than ever. They've had another child since then who wouldn't even exist had it not been for that conversation. So we need people in our life who are willing to do that. The Bible, again, in Proverbs, says, wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy will just tell you what you want to hear. So a real friend isn't always just they're trying to correct you or judge you or anything like that, but they will love you enough to say something that might hurt them to say and hurt you to hear, because they love you and want to protect you. And so we need to be that kind of friend. Absolutely. Comes time in the episode for Q and A, my favorite Time. Thank you guys for sending in your questions. Every episode, we end with a question. And you can send your questions to nakedmarriagepodcast.com and we might just pick yours and read it live on the air. Sweetie, you want to read this one? All right.

It says, I'm a wedding photographer, so I work weekends and stay at home with the kids during the week. I've made sure that I don't book up every weekend in order to have time for my family. But my husband, quote, hates my job and, quote, wants me to quit. This is the only thing I have found success in outside of my family. So it kills me to hear him say those things. I feel stuck, confused, and unappreciated. Thank you so much for that question. I know that's, you know, that's hard for her to hear because she's found something that she loves, that she's probably very good at, and it gets her a little bit outside the home, and he's telling her he doesn't want her to do it. And, you know, we've heard. You know, we've heard from other people who are dealing with the same dynamic. It's a tough place to be.

It really, really is a tough place to be. And again, this particular situation, like most situations in marriage, it isn't that one of you is completely right, one of you is completely wrong. Like most situations in marriage, it's that you both have, in this particular instance, two different perspectives. And this becomes an opportunity not for you to win, so to speak, or for him to win, so to speak, but for you to look at the situation and say, we're on the same team. We want the same things. We want our marriage to thrive. We want each of us to be at our best. And so let's talk about what that looks like in this particular context and to sit down and to share, as I'm sure you probably have. Again, not trying to just, like, plead your case, that you're going to convince him, like a judge, to decide guilty or not guilty, but to talk about it as partners who want the same thing, and to say, listen, like you said so eloquently here, this is one thing in my life that it brings in income to our family, but it also brings a great deal of fulfillment and creative outlet to me. After I've been home with the kids all week, which I love, it's nice to be able to do this on his side. He's thinking, the weekend is the one time that our family can be together. It's the one time that we can both have some downtime. And if you're doing this, it feels like we're never off, that we're always just ships passing in the night. We're running in two different directions. And it's not helping our family. And so I think that it's a conversation you're going to have to continue having. And I think in those difficult moments, those difficult conversations like this where you're at an impasse and it just feels like you're having a real hard time finding common ground and the solutions that you're throwing out there haven't been received as well as you'd like. Like saying, well, I'm not booking every weekend, you know, I'll take fewer. Let's kind of agree on that number per week, you know, that number of weekends per year that we can do it, if that's not going anywhere. I think this is a perfect kind of situation to sit down with a mediator, a counselor, a Christian counselor of some kind, particularly someone who specializes in mediation, which is to listen to two people and be an impartial third person with no agenda other than to help you both, coming from a Christian perspective and helping you both see different nuances of this situation that you might not have seen, and then lead you both to a place where you can find common ground and feel good about it and make the decision together and where neither of you feels like you've lost, but both of you feel like together you've won. We've got marriage mediation right now through our coaches, and you can learn more about that and actually connect with one of them and they'd be happy to talk with you by phone or by Skype. Go to this site xomarriage.com coaches and this team does an amazing job and I think they could help you in this situation.

Absolutely. And I don't know all the specifics about this situation, but I will say this. I've been a stay at home mom for years before I went back to teaching and before we'd been doing marriage ministry. I was a stay at home mom for years. And it's a hard job. It's the hardest job. Hardest job. I mean, I will just put it out there. It's very hard. You know, it's hard juggling work and kids and all of it. I mean, all of it's hard. And just parenting in general and managing daily life is hard. But I think that, you know, there could be this part of your husband where he doesn't want to have to be Mr. Mom on the weekends. But I will say this. One way you could help him to see where you're coming from is say, listen, I'm gone for a day or two on the weekends to do this, you know, to do the photography, which is something I love. You go to work every day and I am doing what you're doing on the weekends. But I'm doing it five days. Can you give me just this, you know, two weekends a month this time to have this? Because this makes me kind of refuels me and it makes me a better mom and a better wife because I'm able to do something that I love that's outside of the home. And I totally get that desire. And we've been there too. I mean, we. I had other things going on that I did on the side. Like, for example, I had an interior design business that I would do part time. And I remember some weekends I would be busy getting a client's house together or going shopping and trying to find just the right thing and organizing contractors and things like that. And Dave was so gracious. I mean, I know it wasn't easy. I mean, I know because I'd be at home with the kids too. But he was so gracious in giving me that time. And I feel like he. How you got around it was, I know this is gonna make her better and I know this is a way to serve her and to serve the kids. I mean, really, he really is gonna have sweet time with the kids. You have to kind of shift your mind and say, yeah, they are wearing me out. I mean, I get it. Like it can be monotonous. It can try your patience when you just wanna go and watch a game. I mean, maybe he watches sports and he's like, I just wanna sit back and watch a game. And when you have small children, you really can't do that. They take your full attention. And so it might be that. And I don't fault him for that desire, but him giving you this time and you giving him his time, like, I mean, it's a give and take and it's serving one another in an ebb and a flow. It makes you both better people because you're able to have, you know, something that is that you're good at that God gifted you to do that you can really put into practice.

Man, that's good stuff. Well, I hope that helps. And we appreciate you sending in that question again. If you have a question you want to send to us, go to nakedmarriagepodcast.com thank you guys so much for listening today. Thank you for those who have subscribed to the podcast who've left reviews. We love, love reading your reviews. It encourages us, it fuels us. It even sometimes shapes future episodes based on what's resonating with you. And it helps other people discover the message of this podcast. And so when you're sharing it, when you're getting the word out there, you're partnering with us in spreading a message of hope to marriages all over the world. And we truly, truly appreciate it. God bless, guys. We'll see you next time.

Bye. Bye.

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