The Secret to a Great Marriage | Dave and Ashley Willis

Hello and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we address the truth about sex, intimacy and lifelong love. And you guys, I hope you're loving this two week series where we're giving you an episode each day to start out 2023 strong. Even if you're listening later on, this is a way to really bring lots of growth to your marriage, to give it a jump start. Hope you're loving it as much as we have been loving these interviews. And so today we have another great interview with our dear friend Scott Kadirsha. And Dave's going to tell you about him in just a minute, but before we get there, I want to share another review. Thank you guys so much for taking the time to share with you and what this podcast means to you. It's the best way to let others know about the podcast. So if you haven't left a review and you love this podcast, please go and spend just like 30 seconds, write a quick review. It will let others know about this podcast and it also gives us a little pep in our step, if I'm going to be honest, because it helps us know that it's helping. We do appreciate it. All right, Today's is from Mr. Miller and it's called they say Love this couple. It says, this podcast has been so encouraging to us as a couple. We found you guys about eight months ago and have been listening to your podcasts and watching your videos ever since. We look forward to the day when we can listen to you guys in person at one of your conferences. Please come. We'd love that. And it says, may God bless you. Keep up your positive attitude and willingness to help other people. And since they mentioned the XO conferences, you guys, we are like getting ready. We are on the cusp of EXO conference season. We'd love to see you at any of our conferences. If you go to xomarriage.com you can see all the places we're going to be and you can get your tickets right there.

That's right. And we love these events. They are so fun. We'd love to meet you in person. We do a meet and greet at all of them and we would love to hug you and hear your story and just come to one of these. They're amazing. If you can't come stream it online at that same website, you can get all the information. Well, guys, without further ado, we're going to dive into today's conversation with our dear friend Scott. He is a pastor, a Marriage ministry icon. He's been at it for almost two decades as a pastor, writer, blogger, and now a podcaster as he prepares to launch a new marriage podcast called More Than Roommates. Stick around to the very end of this episode because at the end of all these episodes, we're asking people one nugget of marriage advice. And Scott shares one piece of marriage advice that if you will put this into practice, you'll be among those who have a less than 1% divorce rate. That's right. Those who do this thing consistently have the lowest divorce rate imaginable. So stick around to the end to find out what that is. Let's dive into today's conversation. Well, like I said during the intro, I am really excited about our guest today. Our great friend Scott is back with us on the podcast. And Scott's one of those guests that hasn't just been a guest on the podcast, but like a friend that we've hung out with. You know, when we were living in the Dallas area, Scott and I would go on mandates all the time. This little Mexican place, chips and salsa, talking about life and just a great guy to hang out with. But Scott is a veteran in the marriage ministry space and he has got so much wisdom and experience, not only from his own marriage, but from just countless couples that he has counseled through the years. He's worked with through the years in various settings. He's written books and blogs and is getting ready to launch new podcasts. He is all over the marriage space and has so much wisdom and we're just honored to have him with us today. So, Scott, welcome back to the podcast.

Welcome.

Thank you. Friends. I love all that you're doing and grateful for our friendship and that we get to do this together. It's really fun. Thankful.

Yes, we are too.

We are.

Well, you know, like, like Dave said, you work with married couples all the time. I would love to hear kind of right now, kind of in this season, what do you think is kind of the biggest struggle for married couples right now?

Yeah, we've had for 16 plus years. I've done full time marriage ministry in the church, married for 21 and so, you know, a little bit of experience on both fronts. But I've gotten the privilege of working with couples who are pre married, newly married couples who, you know, having their first baby, couples who are empty nest and everything in between. And so it's really fun to get to see all sides of always keeps me fresh. There's, you know, good job security. There will be marriage problems as Long as we're around. Oh, yeah. So I think that the, the biggest challenge I consistently see is that couples just kind of settle and coexist. And so I certainly see couples who are crushing it and doing really, really well and then couples who are struggling. But, but what really gets my heart more than anything is the average married couple who's just doing fine. You know, they, they pay the bills, they raise the kids, they kind of go to church, and then they just simply coexist and they don't work hard on their marriage. And so everything that comes with that, all of the problems that come along with it of, you know, of being stuck in ruts, of being bored, of looking for fun outside of marriage. And so my biggest challenge consistently is to encourage couples to work faithfully on their marriage before the problems come in. And so being proactive rather than just responding to, to issues.

That'S such good advice.

Yeah, that is, that's great. And I, I totally think you hit the nail on the head with that is where most couples live. And I'm so thankful for the couples that are listening right now. You know, just by listening to this episode, you're, you're, you're beating the norm. You're investing, you're doing something proactive to invest in your marriage. And that's something most couples just don't. Don't do. They don't think about it until there's a crisis.

Right.

And then when the crisis comes, they don't have a solid foundation because they weren't working on it all along. So that's, that's a really, really great insight. So, like, that's exactly right. Kind of catch us up with where you are.

You know, we work, we work really, really hard at things that are important to us. And so if, you know, I was thinking if I wanted to learn how to tile my bathroom, I would go online. I would watch. Of course, I'd watch Chib and Joe because I'm in Waco.

Yeah.

And so I would learn how to tile a bathroom. I would Google a video and watch something on YouTube if I want to learn something at work, if I want to learn how to new skill, you know, use a budget software or learn how to be a speaker, learn how to write. I'm going to Google and I'm going to learn what to do. But so few people actually take the time to invest in their marriage. This is the most important human relationship that we have on the planet. And so what are, what is the average couple doing to really grow their marriage to not just be stuck and settle. And so you just said it. You know, if you are listening to this podcast, you are already doing more than most couples out there. And so we're so encouraged that you would choose to invest your drive time, your walk time, your hobby time, you know, or chore time around the house that you would choose to actually invest in your marriage. And you are rare for doing that because most couples won't do anything to grow their marriage.

Yeah, it is. And I do think, like, what you both have been saying is, I think we tend to wait until we feel like there's a big enough problem. But what we found, and I'm sure you found this too, Scott, and you can speak to this, but a lot of times I feel like, especially you mentioned all the different seasons of marriage, I think that in every one of those seasons, there's things that we hide behind. Like, before you have kids, we can hide behind our busy work schedules. And then once you have children, a lot of us kind of, we put all the focus on the kids. And so we kind of honestly sometimes use our kids and the focus we have on them to avoid our actual marriage issues. And then even when they leave, it's like, oh, well, now we gotta, you know, focus in on work situation, you know, back to the work stuff and preparing for retirement. So we kind of hide behind these things. And, you know, we do need to tend to those things I just mentioned. But I think so many times we kind of as a culture, we look at marriage as something that needs to just be on autopilot or maybe something that is just gonna be good enough and that's okay, you know, and it is, you know, there is this epidemic of people just kind of like, use the word coexisting. And I think that's perfect because that's exactly. It's kind of like just, we're in the same house, we have the bills, we have kids, maybe, but like, we're really not engaging. And so, you know, trying to get couples to re engage and to really, really give. Give their marriage the time and the effort that it requires to have a thriving marriage, that can be kind of tough. And like, you know, those listening, obviously, they're ahead of the game because they're actually listening. But what would you say, you know, in the work that you do with couples is. Is one way that you kind of see that light bulb go off, like when you're working with couples that have been in this kind of coexisting dynamic for a long time. What do you Find is the thing that, that makes them realize that it doesn't have to be this way.

Yeah, it's so good. I remember Gary Thomas had a quote. He has a lot of good quotes, but talk specifically about how when we think about our marriage, we're always looking at the next season. Like, I don't have time now to work on my marriage, and so I'm going to wait until X, Y and Z. And so just to your point, we can find an excuse in any season of life. And so I, you know, I found that the thing that triggers couples to begin to work on their. Their marriage. The only, the only promise we have about marriage in the entire Bible is First Corinthians 7, 28, that if you marry, you will have trouble. And so couples need to see that it's normative to struggle in your marriage, that if you are. He struggled with, communicate. You know, let me take a step back. I think about, about our kids. Our kids are so different from one another. We have twins who were conceived in the same moment of time. They were born one minute apart, and they could not be more different from each other. You know, one of them is an extrovert. He loves people. He's Miss Mr. Social. The other one is very. What's the right way to say it? He is very rigid and set and organized and, and likes people, but really likes being by himself. One is a business guy, one's a music guy. And that, you know, they were made in the same moment, born a minute apart, raised by the same mom and dad, went to the same church, the same school, the same friend group, the same small group, and they're radically different from each other.

Yeah.

You bring a man and a woman together in marriage. Raised by different families, hopefully. Right. Raised by different families and different education. Okay. Kentucky, Very different worlds, but yet so different from each other. And so why would you expect that you're going to get married and it's going to be easy. You are going to struggle, you're going to argue, you're going to have differences of opinion. And so really seeing that it's normative to not be the same, to have struggles at times. And so that that's all the impetus we need when we realize how challenging this thing can be, that we've got to be proactive to work on our marriage at every stage along the way, because if we don't, we're going to struggle. If you marry, you will have trouble.

Yes. And I think even going in that way, and I know you wrote an awesome book Called Ready or Not K N O T, which I love the title, by the way. That was specifically for, you know, people kind of in that pre marriage state, you know, for people who are engaged. And I think that kind of bursting the bubble a little bit and saying like, you're gonna, you know, right now it seems like it's just all perfect that you could never even find anything your spouse does as disgusting or that you could never have any kind of disdain toward each other. You know, that's where you are kind of when you're engaged. And I think bursting that bubble and saying, listen, yes, you're, you, you're gonna, you know, you want to love each other through everything, but there will be days where you're just not, you know, you're not on good terms other, because life throws you some curve balls and sometimes we bring on those curveballs. But sometimes I would say a lot of the time it's just how life goes. You know, we have this imperfect world that we live in and we're imperfect people and so we have an imperfect marriage. And I think that, you know, knowing that we are going to have those troubles right out of the gate really helps because, you know, kind of what I hear you saying, Scott, is that when we kind of come from it come to marriage from that angle, that, that we can kind of get ahead of it and say, like, you know, yeah, what can we do now in this season to really set us up for, for facing those troubles better in the next season? Because I think so many times we shy away from addressing marital issues because we, we look at it with gloom and doom. Like, I don't, I just don't know if we'll make it through addressing that issue. Like, I can see it clearly that we're not talking like we used to. I can see it clearly that my spouse is kind of disconnected from me or I'm disconnected from, excuse me, disconnected from him or her. But we kind of avoid dealing with it. But I feel like, at least in our experience and also in the work that we do with couples, when you actually do address that thing, when you come to terms with like, yes, there's a problem, we're going to address it. What, what you'll find is, yes, it's hard and it's awkward at first, and there, there are, you know, there's kind of that itchy sweater time where you're, you're trying to work through it, but on the other side of that is that wisdom that you didn't have before, and there's an intimacy that you gain, that you don't really expect to gain. But I think so many couples, like you're saying they avoid those conversations, wouldn't you say?

I totally agree. And, you know, it's almost like this mentality that if we just ignore it, if, like, if I pretend it's not there, then I'm going to sweep it under the rug. I'm just going to ignore it, you know, so what I. What I found, and this is like the most basic elementary thing I could tell a couple, is that you've got to communicate about it, right? It's as simple as, you know, the basics of if you follow Jesus, if you both follow Jesus, man and woman are both following the Lord, and you learn how to communicate and resolve problems, you're gonna probably do well in marriage if you would just do those things. And it's not, you know, that people sometimes say, scott, your job has got to be so hard working with couples. And sometimes it is because we're people and people are tough. And I'm tough. I'm extremely tough. You know, I'm the biggest problem in my marriage. And so it's hard to work with people. But if we would just learn how to communicate, you know, James 1:19, the most elementary and wise principle, that whether you follow Jesus or not, if you did this, you would do really well. If you would be great to listen, slow to speak, slow to become angry, right? We would learn how to forgive one another in the way that God has forgiven us in Christ Jesus. You know, Ephesians 4, 32, Colossians 3:13. If we would learn these basics of living as forgiven people and then listening and just keeping our mouth shut, it would go such a long way. And I know it's hard, right? It's hard for me to do that. It's hard to apply. But if we would do the basics, then we would learn how to address the issues. Ignoring it is not going to make it go away. And so actually just sitting down face to face and, you know, talking about it on a. Don't let it pile up and build up, but dealing with those issues proactively will go a really long way for every couple out there. Yes. I love that it is.

It's. We tend to over complicate it sometimes, but it does come down to those basic things. Are we being nice to each other? Are we listening? Are we. So if we'll start with those things, I'm telling you guys, that's gold. It's gold that Scott just shared with us that would solve so many marriage problems before they even become problems, if you're just living that way consistently. But when we ignore those little things, that's when tension builds up, and that's when wedges come between husbands and wives and animosity comes in. And there's just. There's no reason for that. But it's got. Turning it from, like, kind of the broader picture to. To your family for a minute. Like, you just launched some kids to college. You know, you mentioned your twins.

Yes.

Just selfishly, because we're launching our first one this year. I'd love to know what you and your wife are learning through this season of marriage where you've launched, you know, because I know a lot of our listeners are in or near that season. Like I said, we'll be sending our first one off here this coming fall. And how's that adjustment been at home? Yeah.

Yeah. Do you want me to cry on your podcast?

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Bring the tears. You launched two at once, and that's extra. Extra credit.

Yeah. It has been so hard, right? We. We have built a great relationship with our. With our sons over the years, and we've worked really hard to raise them to know the Lord and to. To be fun and to be good friends. And. And over the years, the role shifts, right, from, you know, this role where you're disciplining all the time and you're pointing them in the right direction. And it's. A lot of those early years are just tough and, you know, and we got to experience the fruit of all of those tough and fun things that are along the way when they're babies in elementary school and middle school. And it just became really, really great when they were in middle school and high school. Just the relationship that we got to develop and to send them out has been hard, but. But I always say it would be a lot harder if they weren't doing well spiritually and if they weren't doing well relationally and socially. And so as hard as it is to not have them around, it's what we're supposed to do. Right. Our job is to, you know, the job of a parent is largely to point our kids to Christ and then to raise them to be able to leave the home. And so as much as we miss them and miss the friendship and the dynamic, we're so glad that they are thriving in the real world. And so, you know, I know the way that you parent and the way that you raise your sons, and it's going to be hard. I'll prepare you for it. But. But you've done the hard. You've done everything you can. You've been faithful to pour into them, to love the Lord and to love others. And then you send them out and just go, okay, Lord, they're yours. We've done everything we can, and we trust you with them. And so that's where we are. We're sad, we miss them, but we're also really, really grateful for how well they're doing. Good. And. And it's so fun to see them when they're back home. And then we also celebrate that they're building their own lives now.

Yeah, it's such a good perspective. You know, I actually listened to. Because we're in the season, I'll listen to podcasts that are about that launching season, and I guess they. These moms that I listen to in particular, they were saying how it's kind of a long goodbye, you know, kind of that senior year and then even that first freshman year. Not that you're, you know, I mean, obviously they come back home and you're always going to have that relationship, but. But it isn't.

It.

Because it's a different season. You're saying goodbye to that old season of having them in your home all the time. And I'm sure, you know, I would love to know how's it been for your kids? Because I'm noticing, like, we just came off a long Christmas break that was just awesome. And we had a lot of. We had several trips in there, and I love trips with our family because that's when, of course, you know, there's hard moments, like when you're crammed in a minivan or whatever, going across the country. But. But I love those moments because then you see all their personalities mingled together. And I was just thinking. And I kind of teared up on this vacation that we. It's like our annual family vacation with the whole Willis side of the family. And. And I just, you know, I saw the dynamic between our boys and Cooper, and we're not sure if he's going to be able to go with us next year, but I just was thinking, like, that's going to change our family dynamic. You know, he. He brings something to our family that only he can bring. And. And I feel like our boys, you know, they're excited for him, but it's going to be different. So how's that been with your kids?

Yeah, it's a great question. You know, so it's. It's been an adjustment. It's a New. It's like a new family dynamic. The good thing is it's cheaper when we go out to eat because we're only four instead of six. But my friend, you know, our mutual friend John McGee, he challenged me to think through this a couple years ago. And this will be great for where you are, because I don't want to just mourn the loss of the two older ones. I want to be just as present for the remaining two in our home as I was for the four, for.

The, for the twins.

And there could be this real easy tendency to, okay, I've sent two out and so now I'm gonna check out. But then my. My third child, Carson, our 16 year old, and Lincoln are 14 year olds, deserve as much of me as. As the twins got. And so I'm still all in as a dad. In fact, in some ways, I'm probably even more all in because I'm guarding against what, what John challenged me to think through. And so that. That's made our. The dynamic has changed, but it's just as great. It's just different. And so, you know, one thing we're doing is we read. I read the Chronicles of Narnia with, with my twins when they were 11, 12 years old, and I never did that with the other two. And so we have started reading that they're 16 and 14 and, and loving it just as much as my other kids were younger. Yeah. So I want to. I want to be intentional to do the same things, to go to, you know, basketball games together, to cheer them on at their games, to be just as involved and not just sit here and mourn and go, woe is me. There were times when I acted like I'm the only person to ever send a child off to college. It was ridiculous. I'm like, I'm so dramatic. And, you know, people have been doing this for thousands and thousands of years. They send their kids off. That's what we're supposed to do. And so, yeah, quit acting like I'm the first person ever and launch them and pray for them and be excited for them and then keep doing the work that we get to do as parents.

Oh, such a good reminder.

I love it. I love it. And we're gonna. That, that's great advice for us that we're gonna hold on to that, all of that as we send one off and as we try to be completely present for the three that remain and then the two that remain and the last one that remains to be completely present. That's a great, great Challenge. Well, before we sign off, we've done this with all our interviews. I would love for you to share one nugget of marriage advice. It can be big, small, funny, serious, but one piece of marriage advice. Because everybody that's listening, especially bonus for those who've listened to the end of these episodes to get the nugget of advice. It's going to be something to help make this year their best year of marriage yet. And that's been our challenge for folks to listen to all these episodes and to apply what they've learned. So Scott, you've shared a ton already that if people would apply, it would really make a life changing impact in their marriage. But what's just one?

Yeah, it's great. Yeah, that's so hard. That's like choosing my favorite child. But I'm going to give you one. Somebody may also say this. It's going to be another really obvious. But you know, is, is taking the time to pray together as a couple. And so, you know, I read a statistic recently that said that couples who pray together out loud on a consistent basis that the divorce rate is less than 1%. Wow. And so if we would just be intentional to take the time to pray together out loud on a consistent basis. And, and we all know we're supposed to do that, but how many of us are actually doing that? And so I'm going to give a real practical piece of advice that I hope will help. And again, it's not anything earth shattering, but our anniversary is September 15th. And so I have an alarm set on my phone for 9:15pm you can do AM or PM whatever works. But the reminder is at 9:15pm to pray for my marriage. And so every day, seven days a week, that alarm goes off. And sometimes I'm with Kristen and we'll pray together. Other times I'm just praying on my own. But I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not praying God change my wife, that she would be, that she want to have sex tonight and she would really well and make a great meal. And you know, none of that. I'm praying that I would be God's man, that she would be God's woman and that our marriage would honor God in every single way. And so that, that's been a game changer for me because, you know, obviously I knew that we're supposed to pray together that you know, that it's good for our marriage and it builds our relationship with the Lord. But until I had a practical step in place to Help me apply it. I was not consistent with it. And so, man, let's be people who pray for our marriages that, you know, if the divorce rate is as low as less than 1%, I'm going to do whatever I need to do to keep my marriage strong and to fight for a healthy marriage. And so pray with your spouse every day. That's.

That's gold. I love setting the reminder, too. And. And, you know, things that we schedule tend to happen more, and I think that's an awesome thing to put in your list of reminders to pray for your marriage. So awesome. I love that. I've never heard that before. I mean, obviously, we pray for, you know, we encourage people to pray for their marriage, but setting that reminder and making it your anniversary, it just makes it even that much more special. I think that's so practical. Really awesome and very. And it will happen. You know, I think that's something where it's gonna. It's more likely to happen when. When it becomes a healthy habit in our life, you know? I love Scott. I know we mentioned you have a podcast. Can you tell us more about that podcast?

Yeah. So excited about it. So I've been wanting to do it for five or six years and never got the guts to put it together. But we're starting a marriage podcast through the church I'm a part of, Harris Creek Baptist Church in Waco, Texas, McGregor, Texas. But the podcast is going to be called More Than Roommates. And we're just trying to do the same thing that. That y' all are doing of really helping couples take the next intentional step in their marriage. And so, you know, instead of coasting, instead of just becoming roommates, we want to do everything we can to help couples enjoy the abundant life that God wants for us in marriage. Not just to coexist, but to thrive in this extremely important relationship that God gives us.

Yeah, I love it. And so where can people, you know, when. When will they be able to listen? You're thinking, like, late January, February is what you're saying.

Yeah. As long as the podcast people, the powers that be, cooperate, everything will. Will launch the end of January, beginning of February 2023, and you can get it anywhere where podcasts are found. And so, again, it's more than Roommates. It'll be a podcast from Harris Creek Baptist Church. And super excited about it, inspired by what you have done and what, honestly, would very few others have done is putting together really helpful, biblical, practical, authentic content, content that's going to help couples. And so we just want to add our, add our voices to the mix to help couples.

Well, I love it. And the more the merrier, I'm telling you. So guys, definitely go, go ahead and subscribe to More Than Roommates wherever you listen to your podcast. And when they launch that first one, you'll, you'll get it right in there. So that's so exciting. And Scott, thank you so much for talking to us. This has been really helpful.

Yeah, thank you, my friend. It's been, it's been a pleasure. And thanks to all of you guys who have been listening. So go like Ashley said, bookmark, set yourself a reminder for a couple weeks from now to be looking for that first episode of More Than Roommates. And Scott, thanks for all the wisdom you share with us today. I love you, my friend.

See you next time. Love you, friends. Appreciate you.