Why Your Marriage Needs Shared Faith | The Naked Marriage Podcast | Dave & Ashley Willis

Hey there and welcome back to the Naked Marriage Podcast. We are Dave and Ashley Willis, and on this podcast we uncover God's design for lifelong love. And if you have not already heard, we would love to put a free resource in your hand. It's our 31-day marriage devotional. You can look in the show notes and get the link to that. And you guys, 31 days is a short amount of time, but in 31 days, if you do this very short daily devotional, you can make all the difference in the world in your marriage. So make sure you get that free resource.

Yeah, and it's also going to help your faith, which is what today's podcast all about. We're continuing on this series of what does it mean to have a naked marriage, really the heartbeat behind this whole podcast. And today we're going to talk about that specifically through the lens of faith and the importance that a foundation of faith plays to the marriage that God wants you to have. So let's dive into today's episode. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. There was a great philosopher in the 1980s. Um, he was originally part of a band called Wham! and then broke out on his own to forge a legendary solo career. His name was George Michael.

Wow.

And this philosopher had a quote that I think we need to live by in marriage. He said, you've got to have faith, a faith, the faith Ooh, faith, the faith, the faith, baby.

Yeah.

And if you listen to the song where he says it, I think it'll really speak to your soul.

It's a good song.

But you do have to have faith.

Yes.

I don't know what kind of faith necessarily he was talking about, but—

But I mean, it was a true statement.

It is a true statement.

It is a true statement, yes.

And what is faith really? And how does that apply to a naked marriage? Well, God created marriage. He's the foundation. He is— the breath in our lungs. I mean, he's the author of love, the creator of you and your spouse. And he's the only perfect part of your marriage. So the more of Jesus you invite in, the more perfection you invite in, because none of us are perfect, only him. And so if we do it his way, if we submit to his way of doing things, it's always gonna lead to more. And so faith means trusting in God's way for your marriage, submitting to his word as the authority more than either of your feelings. God's word is always the tiebreaker. It's always the North Star. It's always the compass for where we need to go. And it also means trust. I mean, faith is really just another word for trust. Trusting God that he is good, that he is for us, that his ways can be trusted, and that even when we don't see what he's doing, that we're going to choose to trust and believe that he's working all things together for our good. And having that mentality, I think will, it'll be the cement that holds your marriage together.

That's right, because you know, we're in this podcast series bringing it back to why we call this podcast The Naked Marriage, and it goes back to being naked and unashamed in the garden, and that was just Adam and Eve and God. And so for one moment in time, it was just literally God and the first married couple. And in that moment, you have this unity, and this peace and this tranquility, really, that God created marriage in. And that cord of 3 strands that Ecclesiastes calls, talks about, you know, with God being the strongest cord and then a husband and wife being the other cords that aren't as strong as God, but altogether being very strong. You know, it says in Ecclesiastes, "A cord of 3 strands cannot quickly be broken." And I love that. And I remember when we got married, we actually had 2 pastors involved in our wedding. I had my youth pastor Brewster, and then the music pastor of a choir that I was in all through, a show choir that I was in all through high school, and his name was Todd. And I remember Brewster, maybe it was during our premarital counseling, he handed us like a literal cord of 3 strands. And his point being like, be this cord of 3 strands, let God be the strongest part of your relationship, let your faith always be foundational, and that a marriage can't, thrive without having that foundation of faith, because we're gonna go through rocky times. We're gonna go through times where it feels like it's hard to find our footing. But when we are built on a foundation of faith, when we have God at the center of our relationship, he's gonna hold us together even when we feel like we're falling apart.

And a quick shout out to Brewster. Yes. Is somebody who's, who in fact, who you're not only was, was he Ashley's youth pastor and married us, you know, he came to my high school. He, he always would do these big off-the-wall presentations where he would like, Yeah. Do visual aids. He'd bring a coffin and sit up in a coffin and talk about like numbering your days. Yep. But Brewster now, if you're in Lexington, Kentucky, you need to go, just as a side note. He runs a coffee shop called McLeod's, which is his last name. And the coffee shop exists specifically and intentionally to employ and support special needs adults, which has always been kind of his core ministry and heart. He did so much for that ministry and helping churches around the country really reach out to those with special needs. And so it's a really great place to go. Brewster and his whole team, they have a heart of gold. And that's not like in our script for today, but just wanted to give a shout out because, you know, Brewster's a good one.

Well, and Brewster influenced us because I'd heard that verse before, but having seen it in person, I still have it. Like, I still have that cord of three strand. It really does bring it. He was always one to give imagery with, you know, the verses from the Bible to kind of bring it to life. And it really made an impression on me.

Well, and as it relates to our talk about faith and faith in marriage, you know, we're talking about Brewster because in a lot of ways, faith is contagious.

Yes.

I mean, we have to decide for ourselves. Faith is very personal. No one can decide for us to follow Jesus. We have to make that decision. But when you surround yourself with people of faith, when you try to be a person of faith, you're going to have influence on those around you. Your faith can influence others. There have been times in my life where I'm feeling beat down, my faith tank feels a little low, and it's like I can almost borrow some from my amazing wife, Ashley, or from people in my life who are just really faithful. And I'm so thankful for that. And so we mentioned Brewster, we've had so many friends and mentors and encouragers and pastors and supporters and coworkers and different people through the years who've inspired us, shaped us in some ways through their faith. And so putting yourself in that kind of environment, I think, is the first step. So what does that look like in your marriage? It starts with saying, we're going to make this home a place of faith. We're going to make this home a place where there is trust in God, love, joy, all those things God wants us to have. And God's word is going to be foundational. And then we're going to take the step and get connected into community. We are going to be part of a local church. And right now there's this— a lot of churches are growing, but there's also this alarming cultural trend among Christians to say, well, I don't need a church to be a Christian. Yeah, I mean, you could make that argument, but you could also make the argument that I don't need to ever be at home with my spouse to be married. You could be technically married and never be around your spouse, but it's not going to be much of a marriage. And it's the same with our faith. Like when you read the Bible, you read the New Testament in particular, it's almost impossible to live out the faith that we're called to in isolation. It's all this with one another, you know, encourage one another, serve one another, love one another, confess your sins to one another, pray for one another. It's all of these things that it just takes for granted. You're gonna be in community. And that the church is God's community. It's not a building, it's a community of believers. And that community starts with you and your spouse, be in faithful community with each other, you know, doing those things for each other, praying for each other, supporting each other. But faith is a team sport, not an individual sport. Like we need other people around us. And through our marriage, Being in small groups, being like on serving teams at church with other people, just showing up to worship even on the days you don't feel like it, um, it's made a huge, huge difference. And we're, we're, we're wired up to need it. Like, it's just nourishment for our souls. And so, um, people say, well, I, I don't go to church because I don't even remember most of the sermons I've ever heard. It's like, I don't remember most of the sermons I've ever heard. But I also don't remember most of the meals I've ever eaten, and yet they're the very things that have kept me alive. And so it's daily nourishment, and we need it.

We do need it. And, you know, I know you could say, well, Dave and Ashley, Dave's been a pastor for many, many years. You had built-in community, you know, with Dave being a pastor. And yes, we did for a long time, and we took that for granted, but we've moved where Dave hasn't been a vocational pastor, and we've just been doing like, parachurch ministry outside, that means outside of the church ministry, and had to find a home church. And not too long ago when we moved to Texas and Dave wasn't officially on a church staff, we had to find a home church. And we get it, like, it's not easy, especially when you're in a place like Dallas-Fort Worth where there's great churches on every corner. I mean, like, literally so many.

You throw a rock here and you'll hit a church. And there are a lot of great ones. And we bounced around and every time I felt like it was the first day of middle school again. Like, I'm walking around like, uh, I don't know. Do I like these people? Do they like me? I don't know.

We like them.

Yeah. So I get it. I mean, I do get it.

It can be hard.

But you gotta— I've heard somebody say that you don't find community, you forge community.

Yes.

I really like that. You don't just stumble into it. Like, it takes intentionality. You have to make it. You have to build it. You have to invite people to go do stuff, invite people to coffee, invite people to have a meal with with you. Um, it doesn't happen by accident. And, and I know it's like, especially for, for introverted people, uh, that's me. Yeah, it could be harder. But I'm so proud of Ashley because, like, you know, we moved to Texas— we're back in Georgia now, but, um, we moved here, and, and outside of the amazing team at XO, we didn't really know anybody. Uh, she really put herself out there, and, and she started a women's group at our house which was a big stretch for her. She's amazing with people.

Or is that your urging? Like, in a loving way.

But the introverted— people are surprised that she's as introverted as she is because they assume, like, being an introvert means you don't love people. She loves people. Introverts love people. You just recharge by being alone. And you also don't particularly like small talk. You like to go deep with people. But just, yeah, the early stages of all the small talk is like nails on a chalkboard for for most introverted people.

I just love how you're describing how I feel so well. Thank you.

Well, I tried to listen, and I have my introverted—

as you get older, you get a little more introverted.

Yeah, I'm kind of like morphing into a just a hermit old man.

But it's not true. But you realize that about me. And Dave, knowing I'm such an introvert, always have been, you guys. Like, my parents would laugh. I was very involved and very— I've always been an introvert who extroverts a lot, and then I go into like my little cave and I'm like, okay, refuel, refuel. Like, I just, and my parents knew this about me, and my mom is very much an extrovert. My dad's an introvert like me, but I remember like even being involved in all these things in high school, when I would come home at the end of the day, I would, you know, have the little pleasantries with my parents, and then I would be in my room by myself for hours. And my mom let me because she knew that I needed that recharge. So I've always been like this, and Dave's never made me feel bad about it. But I remember in that season really wanting to connect with other women in our community. And Dave really, he's like, sweetie, 'cause we couldn't, I don't know why, but for some reason, I don't know they weren't having signups for small group or what the deal was. But you were like, hey, let's not make excuses, just start a group. I want you to text all the women you know near us and go wide because probably they already have, a lot of them already have plans, but just invite 'em. Like what, you know, and we'll see whoever shows up. And I did, I like texted every woman I knew in this community. And I think I had like maybe, 8 to 10 sign up or whatever, and I hosted them at my home. We did the Lisa Terker study, Trustworthy, and I would make all these little— well, make, make is a stretch. I would go to Costco and the Costco chefs would make like some really good treats.

You would think Costco is a, is a sponsor of Naked Marriage by how often it gets name-dropped. It's not. If you are an executive at Costco and you would like to officially support the Naked Marriage podcast, Even if that means just for us in the team sending those delicious hot dogs over, um, we would just settle for that. Like, we don't even need—

that's right—

paid sponsorship, just the craft, right? Yeah, just the chicken bake thing. Yeah, or the cookies or rotisserie chicken every now and then dropped off at the office here.

Yeah, let's do it.

But yeah, so you'd pick up those things, like girly stuff, and the ladies loved it.

They loved it. But this is, this is the crazy part of this, is it was a 6-week study, had him every week at my house, and it was just so lovely. That Trustworthy study is awesome. It goes through all the kings of the Bible, and it's just really— you learn so much. Guess what happened at the very, the very last week of that study? Guess what happened? Remember? Uh, it was the official announcement of the whole world changing.

Oh, COVID.

COVID, right?

And so it ended with COVID and not that it would have never happened, Well, for a long time. For a long time.

And so it ended with the COVID announcement. This is when we all had to shelter in place. And, um, but we still had made that connection. And so we started a text thread and we checked in on each other. And it was just really cool that we had established that connection. And I'm still in connection. We were at, I think, Universal Studios this past summer, and somebody started waving at me, waving at me. And she's like, Ashley, Ashley! And she's like, it's Rosa. And I was like, oh, that's right.

Yeah, from that group, from your Super Women's Group. And I was just like, oh my gosh.

And so It's just, it's so cool because we're bonded forever. Like when you get in these groups, they usually start out awkward because everybody's nervous. We all become that middle girl.

Every group we've ever been part of, and even though most of them have led to some lifelong friendships.

Absolutely, yes.

But they all start awkward because you're getting to know new people. And that's, you know, always that we usually got kids running around. We're trying to figure that out.

But then you're at, by the end of that study, you're just like, I love these people. How did I do life without them? And so I'm so grateful you urged me in that area because I don't think I would've done it on my own, just my introverted nature, because we make excuses for people and we're embarrassed. And then, you know, we worry, we, you know, kind of have that feeling of like, oh my gosh, I don't wanna be rejected. And just that insecurity that can kind of be there. But just go out and do it scared. Like invite people, you know, anyway, and just entertain the people that come to you and get to know them and then see what God can do with that. You know, during that season too, we both decided to not turn down, if it was feasible, to not turn down any invitations for dinner. And so if somebody invited us to dinner, we were gonna go. If they invited us to a lunch, we were gonna go. And then we made a lot of invitations to people to get to know people too. And so I think that it's just, you know, you gotta forge that community. I wanna add to this too. So as it, you know, coming back to faith and living out the naked marriage, I think that you need to look at 3 different components as it relates to building your faith. And that is first and foremost, like Dave Willis said, your community. Make sure you have a community of faith, a community of believers. You know, we become, as they say, like the 5 people we hang out with the most. And so think about that. Are you hanging out with people of faith and people who point you to the Lord, people who encourage you in your faith, or people who kind of draw you away from the Lord? And if you don't have people in your close circle that are Christians, then make some Christian friends and have, you know, that inner circle that are people of faith that point you to the Lord. Another one is look at your calendar. Are you making space or engaging in activities that build your faith, whether it is going to church, going to small group, serving, going and volunteering at your dream center in your community that serves people with hot meals, or is a clothing closet that helps people have clothes, or maybe you put on activities for the kids in the community, and you work, you know, VBS one summer, or whatever it is. I mean, some of our best memories that were, I think, the most faith-building were volunteering with youth groups, You know, I mean, that was the whole like first 4 years of our marriage was just week after week volunteering with the youth group, right? This is before he was even officially a pastor. This was just our home church. We were both youth volunteers. And just even going on a mission trip. You mentioned Casa Shalom in a previous episode. I mean, just going and experiencing a mission trip together and serving people. I mean, there's lots of ways to serve that can really build your faith. So look at your calendar and think, where am I? In my day-to-day, my week, my month, where am I having activities, having space to make room for faith-building activities with each other? Also, you need to look at what you're consuming, okay? Think about what are you consuming on the day-to-day? And I mean, yeah, eat healthy, but really I'm talking about what are your eyes consuming? What are your ears consuming? What are you listening to? Are the podcasts you're listening to, the music you're listening to, building your faith or pulling you away from the Lord?

Well, you're listening to this right now, so props to you.

So props to you, right? You know, what are you watching? Is it drawing you away from the Lord or drawing you closer? And this isn't to like police everybody. I mean, there's room for entertainment here, but we do need to take stock in what is it that we're being influenced by, because that's really the question we're asking. And, you know, every day we're either growing closer to the Lord or we're growing further away, you know? And if you're like, well, no, I'm kind of neutral, it's like, well, if you're neutral, then you're probably growing further away. So, you know, one thing this year, that I decided to do a little differently. Like, I've listened to Bible podcasts in a year. Like, there's been several that I've listened to over the years. I've read, you know, the physical Bible in a year. I've listened to some different faith-building podcasts. And like, I love like, Whoa, That's Good with Sadie Robertson Huff. I love the Candace Cameron Bure podcast where they bring on different guests that really provide some just insightful conversations that are faith-building. But this year I decided to do The Bible Recap with Tara-Leigh Cobble. And I know it's been around for like 8 years, years now, but the reason I'm doing it is I was inspired by some of my own counselees who are newer Christians who had talked about, you know, how much this has made an impact on them. And I'm like, man, you know, I need to check this out. And so what you do with The Bible Recap is you, you know, she is going through the Bible chronologically. And so you just follow the chapters of the Bible that she's reading each day. You read it, and then you go and listen to her recap.

It's really good.

It's so good, 'cause he's joined me a little bit on some of it.

Yeah, she'll have it on, and I'm like, this is really good stuff. And so do that stuff together. I mean, even with like our podcast, you know, I hope it's something you and your spouse can do together or at least talk about together with only one of you listening. But what you're consuming, it is so important to like building your marriage, building your faith. And so it's like, what am I putting in my ears, my eyes? You know, Romans 12:2 talks about renewing of our mind. And that takes like washing away sometimes all of the junk that we're binging all the time. Of the world and say, Lord, I want to binge on your truth, your word, your encouragement. Sometimes I've got to just pull away from other entertainment and say, I just need some worship music. I need some encouragement from God's word. Man, that makes such a difference. And to fix my thoughts on those things, which Philippians 4:8 in the Bible says, fix your thoughts on that which is good and pleasing and excellent and true and worthy of praise. So the world's gonna throw a lot of junk at you and you just, you can't have a mental diet of just junk food and expect to thrive. You know, we have to be intentional about what we're putting into our mind. And so that's the second one. The first one was community, 3 C's for your faith, community, consuming.

We did calendar and then we did consuming. Oh, then you're right.

Yes. All 3. So we've got all 3. So the calendar, community, consuming, those 3 things. And I love when Ashley teaches on that. It really does provide a framework for you to look at your, your calendar, your choices, your life, um, all of it, and saying like, okay, with my time, with my— what am I taking in, with people I'm surrounding myself with— those are the things that are going to shape your life and your faith.

Absolutely. And I think too, you know, the kicker here is it's easy for us to look at our spouse and evaluate what they're consuming, what they're doing on their calendar, and who they're surrounding themselves with. But we really need to, to say, Lord, reveal my own blind spots here. Like, take, you know, like, take an assessment of yourself individually and then bring it to your spouse and say, here's what I feel like, you know, I could work on in the area of consuming. Like, I mean, I'll use an example, um, and I do think there's a place for us to lovingly point it out in each other, but first and foremost, we need to ask God to reveal our own stuff that we need to deal with. But if we notice something in our spouse, we can lovingly point it out. And I remember, um, not, gosh, it was probably a couple years ago. Dave very lovingly noticed that I was a little bit more on edge than usual. And then I was actually voicing this. I was like, I'm feeling really stressed. I don't know why I'm so like down. Like nothing bad's happened. I'm like verbally, I'm a verbal processor. So I'm like out loud being like, let me think about this. Like, I mean, nothing bad's happened this week. I mean, life's really good. You know, I mean, it's a really nice day. And I'm like going through all this. And then Dave, when I kind of paused, he said, well, how many murders have you listened to today? And I kind of looked at him and I was like, what?

He loves true crime. And there's nothing wrong with crime podcasts, but when you're hitting like 6, 7 murders a day, I feel like that's going to take a toll on your mental health.

Yes.

And so I joked with her about it, like, you know, you just have to balance it out, maybe pull away from that.

And I did.

Yeah.

And I'm like, you know what? It's out of balance. That's what it was. It's not that listening to true crime is bad in and of itself. I really— I used to want to be an attorney. I'm really fascinated by these things, and usually they get the bad guy, and I'm just kind of fascinated by all the procedural things. But I knew that it was out of balance, so I started listening to more worship music, more Christian podcasts, or turning it off altogether and just getting in nature and like not listening to anything when I'm on my walks, or, you know, whatever it is that I was doing where I was listening to podcasts. And so it's good You know, first take a look at yourself and see what you need to do to change, but also listen to your spouse if they bring something to you because they do know you. And I think that the reason I accepted what you said is you brought it to me so kindly. You were very kind.

Right, yeah. I mean, I wasn't trying to like argue about it.

Well, you weren't like, what are you talking about? You're crazy. You're listening to all this murder.

I was curious.

You know?

'Cause I, like, you like to have it on, Even like when we're in bed, you'll be watching Law Order or something. And I do love Law Order. And I mean, I like Law Order SVU. I mean, I'm for all of it, but I don't wanna go to sleep to murder in the background.

I'm not the only one though. I did a post recently on my social media and put like, I'm like, am I a weirdo? For some reason I had the best sleep of my life when I go to bed with Law Order SVU or one of the Law Order.

I'm having nightmares.

All these people were like, yes, what is it that? I know, like, you know, it's like Olivia Benson. She's taking care of business. I can sleep well.

It is a great show. And it's been on for like 3 decades now. So there's some staying power there.

But it's weird. There is some neuroscience. There's something or behavioral science. There's something behind that that I would love to find out why so many of us like find, I don't know, not only interest, but like a little bit of like we can sleep well through that. What is that? That is a little odd, right?

I don't know. Though, hey, if you're a therapist, you can write us and be like, this is the disease Ashley has that makes that. No, no, it is a lot of people. It's not a disease.

No, but there's, there's something to it because, and I, it's a preference. I really believe, okay, 'cause I, you know, I'm in the therapy field myself and I'm fascinated by all these neuroscience studies, but I think it's because it's like there's a problem, they're finding what happened and then they get the bad guy. Like I think that, 'cause normally there's, there's a, there's a resolution. I mean, it's sad most of the time, which that's the part I don't understand, but you know, It's interesting.

It is.

I digress on that.

So pray for us is the takeaway.

No, no, but it is important to pay attention to what you're consuming and not allow things, entertainment or otherwise.

Consuming, calendar, community.

Yes.

And are those things impacting my faith in a positive way or a negative way? So just start there. So if you're not in a church, get connected to a church. If you're not praying together with your spouse, start there. Like I said in a previous episode, it's like— Oh, that's a huge one. It's like less than 1% of couples who pray together daily divorce. I mean, that's amazing. That's something that's free and it's simple. You know, talk to God together. It's gonna do wonders for your marriage. Intentionally do things to build your faith together as a couple by what you're consuming, by where you're going, like all the 3 C's that Ashley talked about. It'll make a huge difference. And here at XO Marriage, we have a lot of resources to help you grow in your faith and your marriage at the same time. So explore the many resources, including the video courses on XO NOW, which are taught by some amazing teachers and great friends of ours, like, you know, Pastor Jimmy, Joshua Broome, Pastor Narup, Dan LeAnn. There's so many great ones there and they're adding more all the time. We have some stuff on there. So check that out. We just want to equip you in this area. So with that being said, we're going to pivot to today's question. Again, thank you to those who submit questions. If you'd like a question submitted that might be read on the air, you can write us on Instagram @DaveAndAshleyWillis or by going to nakedmarriagepodcast.com. Today's question says this: my best friend is married, but she is flirting all the time with the guy she works with. I think she's in the danger zone of having an affair. How can I intervene? I'm not sure what to say. "Or if I should say anything." Hmm, sweetie, thoughts?

Well, my first thought is what a sweet friend you are.

Oh yeah?

Who's been caring. You know, so many of us, you know, we're in this culture today that's like, you do you, live your truth. Don't say, you know, if they're not bothering you, what do you care? But really, you know, in Proverbs, we've used this verse before, it says wounds from a friend can be trusted, okay? And that's hard because we don't, I know the reason she's writing this question is you don't wanna hurt your friends. Your friend's feelings by assuming that she has feelings for this guy or pointing out her behavior as being wrong in any way. And you don't wanna hurt your friendship because clearly you love this woman as your friend. But I think that definitely you should say something. I think you could be the person that actually saves her from doing something because here's the deal, I don't believe anyone wakes up one day and thinks to themselves, you know what, today's the day I'm gonna go have an affair and bust up my family and just really break their hearts and change the trajectory of my family forever. That's what I wanna do today. I don't think anyone wakes up thinking that. Like, it's very subtle. It's subtle disobedience. It's subtle little things where we're going a little wrong. We're just messing a little bit with fire. And odds are, maybe, you know, she feels like a kindred spirit in this guy, and that in and of itself isn't wrong. But if she's finding herself now flirting or maybe dressing in a certain way that he's gonna notice and really enjoying the conversation just a little too much, she's opening up her heart. To being more tethered to this guy. And that's how you see people go down this road to first an emotional affair and then eventually a physical affair. And both are out of bounds. And so I would encourage you to start with this. I'd go to your friend and say, hey, you know I love you so much, right? You know that I would do anything for you if it meant that I was concerned for you, that I would do anything, even if it meant saying some hard truth. Do you know that? And of course, I'm sure she's gonna nod her head and be like, listen, Listen, I don't think you realize this, but you're being a floozy. No, no, that is such an old-timey word.

I know my grandma used to say that word. I didn't know what it meant.

Dude, anybody say that anymore?

But now I know what it means, and we have other words for it.

But oh, probably other worse words.

They're worse words.

But you know, I would go to her in all seriousness and say, listen, you give her the benefit of the doubt. You probably don't even realize you're coming off this way. But I've just noticed that you've really been talking to that guy a lot. And when you talk to him, you light up in a way I haven't seen you light up with your husband in a long time. And you may not intentionally be flirting with him, but it comes off as flirting. You know, it really does. And I just wanted to tell you because I would just hate to see something bad happen. And, you know, I hope you would tell me the same thing. I really do, because you mean that much to me. I would really trust what you have to say. And I hope you know that I love you. And this is really hard for me to share this. But I love you too much not to say something. And that's exactly what I would say.

That's a good friend. That's a real good friend to say things like that. And if you are in a situation in your workplace where maybe you find yourself wanting to be around somebody of the opposite sex, feeling a real connection with them, looking for excuses to talk to them more than you need to, thinking about what you put on in the morning, hoping they notice it, I mean, that's danger zone activity.

Right, right.

And you need to just create some distance there. It's, it's not a sin to feel a connection to someone or even to be attracted to someone, but it can quickly become sin when we start acting on those feelings in a way that puts us in that danger zone. And I would say this lady's certainly in that danger zone and needs to back away.

And I just want to say this real quick, just to add it: if you're ever in a conversation with someone of the opposite sex that you would not have with your spouse standing right there, or on the phone with you hearing everything that's going on, or peering in from a window only seeing the body language. If that does not make— if you think, oh my gosh, I would never want them to hear this, then you're in a danger zone. Then I would say you've gotta put distance there. You need to have a lot of distance with that person, 'cause it's what we refer to as maybe an unsafe person right now for you, because there is too much attraction there, and it can cause you to open up in ways you didn't intend with not having boundaries in place.

The naked marriage is being naked with your spouse in all things, not with anybody else.

That's right. That's right.

So guys, thank you so much for tuning in. We really appreciate you. If you haven't already, please subscribe to this podcast and as always, check out all the resources available at exomarriage.com. We love and appreciate you and we'll see you next time.