Your Marriage Isn’t Working, Here's How to Fix It

Like, I'll just watch how they're interacting with Dave, and I'm like, I would just put some distance there.

Yeah.

And she, like, she hugged a little too long.

Hey, friends, welcome to the Naked Marriage podcast. We're in a really fun series right now, and hopefully a meaningful one, too. We're getting back to the basics, going through the marriage vows one line at a time. And today we are at Forsaking All Others. And so a lot to talk about. Sweetie, sweetie, what are your thoughts on Forsaking All Others?

Well, you know, one thing that was so interesting is we were talking to our producer Taiwan, before we hit play, and he just got married. He's in his early 20s.

Congrats, Taiwan Chloe.

Yes.

In fact, you know what, guys? You should send them a wedding gift.

Yes.

And then wedding gift, because so we're gonna put their. Their registry in the show notes because they're awesome. They're a young couple. You were a young couple once. We've all been there. And, you know, just bless them, because these are two of the sweetest people on the planet.

They are so sweet.

And so I didn't mean to interrupt, my love, but Taiwan, Chloe, we love you.

I want to bless them, but he was saying, you know, they just got married, so they did all the research on vows and different things like that. And he was saying. He said, you know, there's such a trend lately where they've either changed the wording to where it's not clear. It's not as strong a word as forsaking, but he's like, they don't often include forsaking all others. And I was like, really? I said, wow. Because to me, that's, like, one of the most important vows, you know? And to me, forsaking, I love that word because it's such a strong word. You know, there's no bones about it. Like, it's saying, like, you are my one and only, you know? And it just brought to mind recently that we received a message from a concerned husband who said, you know, I've been married, you know, like, 20 years. We have a beautiful family. But he said in thinking about it, he's like, we're at this crossroads where we really can't communicate in a healthy way. And he said, what I really, really think it boils down to is that we have never, either one of us completely been the only one. Like, we've never really given our full heart to each other. And this is why he said, she's always had male friends that she texts with. That even she'll probably get sometimes even flirtatious with. And he said, and if it wasn't a male friend, it was family members that she was almost codependent with. And he said, for and for me, it was inappropriate, you know, connections with women in the workplace or just putting my work ahead of my spouse. And he's like, so neither one of us. We've never really fully forsaken all others, you know, and it really got me thinking because I think so many. And I thought that was wonderful that he at least saw that. But then he was asking, like, what do I do with that? Like, where can I go now? And I think the first step is recognizing that, because I think, you know, why so many times people live in this dynamic is because they never recognize it as a problem. Like, they're like, sorry. I mean, I was an individual coming into this marriage, and me keeping my individuality is just doing the same things I always did, and my spouse needs.

To deal with it.

You just adjust to it.

Right. And maybe even assuming that your spouse is fine with the dynamic. You know, we were just having lunch with a wonderful couple a few days ago. They really inspired us.

Oh, my gosh, they inspired us so much.

You know, married for 43 years. Their story is really incredible. They worked together from kind of from rags to riches. You know, they started out with nothing, and they've built, you know, wealth, and then they use that wealth and influence to bless others and to be these philanthropists and to help their community and, I mean, just amazing folks. But we were talking, you know, about this specific issue, and they had heard us in our talk at that church.

Yeah.

Talking about how it's really important to. To not go too deep with friends of the opposite sex and the reasons why.

Boundaries.

And she afterwards said, you know, all my life, I. I would hear teachings like that, and it would kind of offend me because I've always felt like one of the guys. I've got guy friends. I've just really connected in the workplace. I'm in a setting where it's this hard driving. You know, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm around a lot of men. And it just. I never thought a thing of it. And I just thought, well, you know, my husband is cool with this, and he's supportive of me and. And all this. But it got him then to talk. And for the first time in 43 years, he admitted, well, actually, even though I trust you completely, there have been so many times where I've been uncomfortable, and I felt Jealousy. And I've. And he gave specific examples of like, you know, her going one on one with this personal trainer who was this, you know, hunky, good looking guy who was working with her one on one and, and other times where she didn't think a thing of it, but she was.

Because she didn't have those intentions.

She didn't have those intentions or those motives. But it was a setting where the husband was uncomfortable because, you know, one, he's a man, he knows how, how even the best intentioned men think. And he just, you know, he was having these insecurities but he was afraid to voice them because he didn't want his wife to think that she didn't trust him. And she said, you know, thank you for, to us, thank you for having the courage to say things like this that aren't comfortable and aren't even that socially acceptable now because it allowed us to just now have a breakthrough in our communication, something that he's kind of kept in all these years for us to really be able to talk about it. And so you and your spouse need to be able to talk about this. You know, just what does it look like? And every situation is different because of work settings. And you know, you might have to work in close proximity with people of the opposite sex and that's just life. But what are we doing at all times to protect our marriage? To make sure the people in our life know that we're happily married and that our spouse is so important to us and our marriage is so important and that we're putting boundaries in place to make sure that there aren't these, these connections that can go from professional to something more that would quickly become inappropriate. And we just have to safeguard ourselves because I'm telling you guys, so many affairs, so many emotional affairs, physical affairs, they start out, they do with two people that have innocent motives and just don't have good boundaries.

Boundaries are key. And so like, what does that look like? You know, we talk about how marriage is obviously private. There's certain things that you keep between the two of you. It's very private to you, obviously. But also marriage, your marriage is public. Like if your workmates and your friends and your neighbors just don't even realize you're married, that's a huge problem. And so you'd say, but why should I even be concerned with that? And it's like, well, you may have just like our, our dear, our new dear friends that we just bonded with so much and their dynamic. She didn't like that. Woman, she, she never even had it on her radar that this was. Could even be seen as inappropriate because that was not her intention. But what we don't know is what the other intent, the other one's intentions are. So, like, you want to make sure, you know, make. Make sure people know you're married by talking about your spouse. By saying, like, me and my husband, we went wherever, you know, and this weekend, you know, like, if they said, how was your weekend? Well, my husband, I worked in the garden or whatever it is. Have a picture of your spouse, you know, make sure that you just include your spouse in your conversation. I'm always really concerned. And, you know, I know through gosh, we've been married a long time. We've work a lot of different places. It's always concerning when there's someone who just never ever mentions their spouse. They rarely post about their spouse. Usually there's something. There's something unhealthy going on there. And every time I wish I was wrong, she's right. Every time I'm right with, I'm always like, red flag.

Well, we'll give you the most kind of dramatic example. So we, we have a good friend. We're friends with both the husband and the wife. I worked with the husband in a church setting.

Yeah.

And this guy, this was years ago. Years ago.

Many years ago.

He, he would never wear a wedding ring. He would say, I just don't like to wear jewelry. But he would always have, like bracelets and apple watches and stuff on. But no, I just don't like to wear jewelry. But he would never have his wedding ring on. And he would never post about his wife. He'd post about their kids. But on social media, he looks like a single dad. Yeah, it was him.

In fact, people would often come to us and ask, is he married?

Right.

And we told him, we said, listen, can you just wear a ring just so that there's not a weird situation going on.

Talk about your wife, you know, like, just let people know. And he was like, oh, no, she's just shy. She doesn't, you know.

Yeah.

Well, it turns out that during that whole period of time he was having. He was having an extramarital sexual affair with his assistant and, and was just, you know, living with that secret sin and, and. And like to appease this mistress, I guess, was. Was like trying to make his wife invisible. And it was just such a toxic situation. I'm not saying that everybody who doesn't always post about their spouse or wear a wedding ring is in that situation. No, but I' Things that, that were red flags to us in the work that we do that he was very dismissive of and other people made excuses for turned out to be evidence that something really unhealthy, toxic was going on. And now thankfully, you know, fast forward. I'm so thankful that, that my friend has made it. They've done the hard work of, you know, years of rebuilding trust and counseling and he's. He's back in ministry. Their marriage is stronger than other now. He posts pictures of her all the time.

All the time.

And I. Their marriage appears to be healthier than it's ever been.

Yeah.

Which miracle.

It's a miracle.

But. But yeah, don't. Don't get in that train wreck in the first place.

And again, I mean, I want to just say this because. And please don't misunderstand us, some of you are just not big posters and like, or your. Maybe your spouse has asked you not to post about them. It. I'm not saying that this is like, oh, this is the thing. I would just say though, if you are an avid poster and you'll post about your fitness journey, your kids, your friends, and you just never even mention your spouse. You know, it's just a little weird. Right. And, and I think too, if you go way to not wear a wedding ring, and I know some of you are in settings where you cannot, like, it would be dangerous for you to wear that. I totally understand. But talking about your spouse and just making it known, there's so many ways to make it known that you are a married person and not making it, guess what?

Happily married person.

Right. Like, and that your spouse matters to you because, I mean, we've even had other dear friends of ours where they were going through a rough patch and this husband, you know, was working around a lady who was also going through a rough patch in her marriage, and he found himself removing his wedding ring because she was really firing on him. And instead of like, wearing that wedding ring and openly being, like, talking about his wife, he ended up finding himself in an affair. And he was like, I never thought this would be me. Like, I. But I got wrapped up in it. It felt good to have somebody dote on me and it felt good to, you know, be that guy. Like, to just have a different life for a minute or whatever.

Yeah. When somebody admires you and it can be intoxicating, especially if you feel like you're not getting that at home.

Right.

But really.

And you're kind of going through a rough patch and that's why it's so important when you. Even if you are going through rough patch, I mean, have some close people around that you can. Whether it's texting them for accountability. I mean, we've got to be beyond reproach. We need to make sure we go out of our way to forsake all others. And again, you know, I know a lot of you watching and listening, you're like, ashley, you know, I love that. But isn't it dangerous to put so much in this relationship? And I, you know, I get what you're saying, because we're in this. This world that says, like, you can never fully know somebody, you can never fully depend on somebody. Don't do that. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. My thing is, though, Mar, is it is you need to give your whole heart. But this doesn't mean you don't have friendships. I mean, obviously, you know, having any. Like, if. If a spouse is trying to isolate you from your family and friends, that's a dangerous danger zone. Okay, That's a whole other podcast. Um, we're not saying that forsaking all others doesn't mean ending all your relationships. It means, like, you still want to have strong family relationships, have strong friendships with people who are, you know, have the same gender as you. Now, if you have great friends from the past that are of the opposite sex, I. I'm not saying you absolutely can't even be friends with them. I'm just saying you have to have really good boundaries, like, and invite your spouse. Invite your spouse into it. That's a key. That's a key. And that's when. When I've seen this work, right? There are other. It's like either a group text with, like. I mean, I have a male friend where I'm in a group text. He was on a dance team with us. And, like, there's a group text where he'll text with us. I've never texted, just with him, one on one.

Well, he's so gay, too. Which kind of like, I mean, that's a pretty big asterisk.

But even if he. But even before that was made public, like, it was always a group thing. It wasn't like, a private thing. I would never do that to you. You know what I'm saying? But, like, it. It just is something where I'm not texting. Like, and I'm in ministry settings, too. And, you know, especially, like, I am now counseling people, you know, in my practicum, and you're counseling. I Don't privately text those men. I do everything through email. I do everything where it's very, like, above reproach. I don't want to have.

And the counseling takes place in a. It's a private setting, but there's a clear window where you can. Anybody can look in at any time and see what's happening in there. And yeah, I mean, that's. That's being professional while, you know, and well and available while also having really healthy boundaries to protect everyone involved.

Right.

And both professionally and socially. I think we just have to think that way.

We do. And I know to the world, to the, to the, you know, unbelieving world, or even, even a lot of Christians, that seems like the weirdest. Like, like we've had people write us and say, dave and Ashley, you're just a little weird. Like, we love you, you're out of touch.

I like you sometimes. But this is. And I get it, space cadets when it comes to this topic. And yeah, I get it, you know.

But it may seem, like, really odd.

But here's what I say. What the world calls normal in marriage is something that nobody really wants.

Yeah.

Because normal right now in marriage is two people who are disconnected from each other. Two people who don't have a good friendship, don't have a good sex life, don't have mutually shared goals and dreams, and they're. They're kind of just roommates. And that is totally normal. Quote, normal in terms of. It's what most people have. And so if you wanted something that's thriving, you're gonna have to do some things that look a little weird to the normal people.

Right.

Because you don't want their version of normal. In fact, they don't even want their version of normal. They just don't want to make the changes necessary to have what it is that they really want. That what all of us are programmed by God to desire, which is real intimacy, and to get real intimacy and to keep it in a broken world that doesn't value real intimacy, you're going to have to do some things that might seem a little weird to the people around you. And I'm okay with looking weird because I wouldn't trade our marriage for. For anything. And so you got to be willing to do some things differently. You gotta. You gotta stay connected. When we've worked, we're working together now, which is great. But when we worked apart many years where we. We called each other throughout the day, like a lot. And you know, I had a co worker who one time who she herself was a newlywed, and she was like, you guys talk throughout the whole day. She goes, that's just kind of weird. And I, I said to her, I mean, the same thing I just said. I was like, well, you know, what people consider normal isn't working, so I'll be weird. And I think, you know, and I, I think that it kind of maybe challenges them a little bit because they're, I think their marriage is really healthy.

And, oh, they have a great.

They stay connected. And I think maybe, maybe we planted a little seed that day.

And, you know, I want to say real quick too, sweetie, like, not everyone's going to have exactly the same flow.

Right. It doesn't have to.

Look, I mean it. You may not call on each other, may just exhaust both of you, and that's okay.

Yeah.

But you, you know, every marriage is going to have a different rhythm flow. But I think you both have to decide what boundaries need to be in place and what connection points do we need to have all throughout the day? Because it's hard to forsake all others when you don't feel connected in the first place, because then you're just kind of out there by yourself. Right. And so it's, it's like deciding what are our connection points throughout the day? How do we. How does that look? What is it? Is it, you know, scheduling lunches that we're looking forward to? Is it, you know, calling each other, texting each other throughout the day? Is it coming home and having 30 minutes where we decompress from the day? Like, what. What does that look like? What is our reg. Connection points look like? And then also, you know, the boundaries, like, and I want to say this real quick, we've mentioned this before on previous podcasts, but it's been a while. You need to identify dangerous people in your life. What do I mean by that? I mean people that, you know, again, your intentions are like, you're. You have eyes only for your spouse and a heart only for your spouse, but there's somebody who's maybe trying to move in a little bit in your life. Like, they're flirting with you. They're. They just seem a little. It's a little off putting. Whether, Whether it means, like your, Your spouse, you know, feels off about him. Like, you know what? I can tell that guy, he's. He's kind of got it for you. I'd put some space there. That's a dangerous person kind of thing.

Yeah.

Not meaning they're a bad person. Maybe they don't Even know they're doing it. But I think we just have to be willing to identify what's a dangerous person. There's been times I've done this with you. I've been like. Like Dave, literally. He's very complimentary with people, and I love that about him. He's very encouraging. But in ministry, and he's around a lot of women, you know, just in ministry, being a pastor and we pray with people like men and women, you know, and there's been a couple of ladies over the years where I've been like. Like, I'll just watch how they're interacting with Dave and I'm like, I would just put some distance there.

Yeah.

And she, like, she hugged a little too long.

Yeah. She. She has wisdom, but she's coming up.

A lot, you know, and.

And to me. And she's helped me to see the blind spot of I'm an encourager. Like she said, I love to. Just.

Which I. I mean, that's a.

Words to build people up. But she's helped me to see that, you know, spoken to somebody who might be in a vulnerable situation.

Yeah.

Those words of encouragement could be taken to, I don't know, mean something more than they were meant. And so I've had to really just guard my own words and still be an encourager.

Yeah.

But to not. To not do it in a way that it could. I don't know that it could ever be perceived as flirtatious or it could be perceived as anything other than. Than just we're brothers and sisters in Christ trying to build each other up.

Because we all shouldn't. We don't need to be scared of people of the opposite sex just because we're married. I. That is not the message we're trying to give here at all. Like, we are brothers and sisters in Christ. We have single friends of the opposite sex that we do like. We love having a friendship with them, but we're just. We are all in on what is happening. It's. You never need to have a friendship with someone of the opposite sex where you just. You don't like as a spouse, you're kept out of that relationship. That's. That's a danger zone. Because then what. What often ends up happening, and usually very innocently, is we tend to like, really share with where we feel very comfortable. And then we keep on sharing more and more and more. Before you know it, there's kind of this heart connection that can very easily. With someone of the opposite sex, it can turn sexual. It just. Or or at least physical, like, you know, with, with kissing and such. And it's just such a danger zone. I want to come in on this real quick and then we'll have to wrap up. But it's not always people of the opposite sex. It can be friendships with same sex people where you're just giving more of your time to your friendships than you are to your spouse.

Yeah. Or it can be a relative or even family.

Family's a big one. We just got a message today, actually, and it's one that we hear often. I mean, it was basically like, you know, we had a really balanced marriage when we first got married. And I felt like we were, we were team marriage. We were each other's priority. But then we had children and all of a sudden her family has become, because they're helping with the child, they've become kind of above me. Like this husband was saying this and he's like. And she doesn't see it, you know, and that's where again, we are not forsaking all others in the sense of like, it's another way of saying this is, you know, we've heard, you guys have heard us talk about. Jimmy Evans has the four laws of love and he talks about the law of priority and how, you know, under God, our first priority as far as human relationships, if we're married is our spouse and then our children and then our family of origin. Okay. And our friends and things like that. But it, when this gets out of whack, the marriage does not thrive.

No. And we, early in our marriage, we had a really difficult time in law relationships and trying to figure out what that looked like. Like it inspired us to recently, more than 20 years later from that season, write a book called Married into the Family, which is our newest book. And I'd encourage you to check that out. If you want to grow stronger in your marriage while also having healthy relationships multi generationally with your own family and with your in laws, Married into the family is for you. So check that out, guys. We've covered a lot today.

A lot heavy, good stuff. Hopefully. This is a fun question.

We have the question. We're playing this card game. Let's get deep, let's get deep. So we're each asking each other one, one question to wrap it up. All right, you want to go first?

Yes. This is a fun one. It says, if money were no object, what is one place you want to visit before you die and why? And we, we have a wanderlust about us. Like, we love travel. So I'M really interested to see what you have to say, because I know there's a lot of places.

If money was no object.

No objects.

You know what I think, you know, just getting really, really out there. I think I would want to be on one of the explore exped.

Knew you were gonna say that.

Not only to the moon, but I want to go to Mars.

So years. I'm going with you, though, and our children, because it takes like, what, like, three years to get there. All right, let's go together or a year or something.

Here on Earth, if science people have challenges, if Elon Musk can't get that together in time for me, then here on Earth, I would say I would want to go to. Man, we've been so great, you know, fortunate to be able to see a lot of places that we want to.

See, but there's some on the bus.

But really, I still have not been to Africa. I still not. I've not been to Asia. And so I want to see a lot of. There's just a lot that I want to see. And we. We will hopefully see and hopefully do some marriage events, because all over the world. Yes. We want to help share the message. All right.

I love it.

Sweetie, if you had to name three life rules, what would they be? Three Life.

That's a hard one. Okay. Honestly, I'm gonna make it simple. And it's our church. I get it from our church.

Yeah.

Okay.

I love these.

So number one, love God. Number two, love people. Number three, serve the world.

You can't beat it. It's painted on the wall in our church.

Yeah.

I mean, if you're ever in Augusta.

Georgia, those are life rules.

Come visit us. Love God, love people. Serve the world.

I mean, it's simple, but also, it's literally the Great Commission, so I love it.

Well, you can't beat that. Yeah. Guys, thanks so much for tuning in. I hope this has been meaningful for you. We love and appreciate you so much. We look forward to seeing you next time.

Bye, guys.