Case Study: Data Analysis & Strategy Consulting For Not-For-Profits

We clean the house before the housekeeper comes. You know, we try to organize our books before we share them with the accountant. Let me organize my operations before I talk to someone. Be honest, be honest in what you share so that they have a full understanding and they want to literally partner, collaborate with you on building something greater.

Hi, it's Dave from Systemology and today we are shining a light on business owners, having them share a little bit about their systems journey, where they're up to and. And really to inspire some other business owners, I've got Kiva and Mandalyn from Mirror Group. So maybe just to start Mendelin, I'm not too sure if you would like to tell us a little bit about. Yeah. The work that you do and the clients that you serve.

Sure. Thank you so much for having me here, Dave. So I am founder of Mirror Group. We are an evaluation, learning and strategy consulting firm. People say, what does that mean? So we make data and information meaningful, accessible and actionable. We largely work in philanthropy with foundations and nonprofits. And so we are the partners for assessing programs or initiatives and grant making strategy. We're taking those insights and making them actionable, Learning for staff all the way from entry level staff to directors, executives and boards. And when it's that time for strategy, strategic planning and implementation, we partner on that as well. So that's what we do.

Perfect. And Keeva, how do you support this mission?

Yes, thanks.

I'm so excited to have this conversation.

But as Mendelin shared, I come in and support in a fractional director of operations capacity. So that can really run the gamut from typical operations around systems and processes, but also managing our other vendors that we have in terms of the finance.

Space, IT space, law space, HR space.

But also being that conduit for teams, team related to operation functions. So Asana is not working. Where's this? Where's that? So it's one of those things. I'm the finder of all this stuff.

I can already see you're the systems person. So I'm, I am curious, Mindolin, if you see yourself as a systems person or not so much.

You know what's so fun about all of this? In my own business, I had to realize that I'm not the systems person. And that's why we had to seek out kiva and 516 collaborative with our clients. I have been the systems person, so I think it's always important to kind of draw that distinction. And so yes, I love systems colleagues and friends know I dream in spreadsheets. IT'S my love language. All these fun things. And as you know, as a business owner and entrepreneur, I can't wear all the hats in the business. And I realized that there are people out there that have a heart and a talent and a skill set for this even mightier than my own, who I could really partner with to do this in Mirror Group. And so, so happy that Kiva. Oh. Brought this to us. Oh, yes, I'm messing it up. But at some point you saw the book.

Oh, there we go. It flashed up.

Yep. Yes.

And what, what size team have you got in the Mirror Group?

Yeah. So in the scheme of small businesses, we really are a micro business. I like to say tiny but mighty. And so our team size is 8 full time employees. We also have 1099 subcontractors that we partner with. But yeah, we're tiny and mighty.

Yes. Yeah. And it sounds like, Kiva, you had brought the idea of Systemology in. Can you tell us a little bit about how. I know we just before we hit record, it was, I think you discovered us through obm.

Right.

So yeah, tell us a little bit about how you came across Systemology and what made you think, ah, for the Mirror Group here, this would be a perfect fit.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

Through my work, obviously, in the operations.

Space, whether it's eos. We've talked about that, we've talked about.

All kinds of, you know, traction this. And so when Systemology came out, it was actually one of the book club reads, I think we call them in our online business manager association. So I was like, oh, we're reading this. And it just made sense to me more than other things made sense to me in the same space. And I was like, oh, okay, I get this, I get this. So when Mendeleyn and I, we started with a strategy intensive just to really kind of brain dump everything of what she was experiencing, what was working, what wasn't working, where she saw the organization had it. And as a part of that, we knew that there needed to be some hires, there needed to be some things that really came off of her plate. And I really won't go into this, Dave, but she was doing a lot.

A whole lot, a whole, whole lot.

And so we knew there were some key things that needed to come off of her plate. But for them to come off her plate, where were they? Not so much. Where were they going to go? Whoever they went to, would they know how to do them? And so our initial set of work was we laid out 20 systems that were some were team Based, some were more admin based in terms of tasks that Mindolin actually was doing. And we started the process of this is what the CCF is, the critical client flow. And we just started breaking that down and videos and SOPs and refining that within the team and really that's kind of how we got the ball rolling in started. We partnered. I'm actually not the systems champion in the organization. We have a full time employee for that who is. She's systems minded and she, we use Asana and so she just has been able to bridge gaps between what they already had existing as well as how do we incorporate this. And so she's actually the systems champion. And it's just now like getting everyone to keep thinking in a systems mindset as we move forward.

Yes. Yeah. And Mandolin, how have you gone with the extraction process? Because I, I know visionaries, they often know the way they would like something to be and not necessarily the way it is. And when a visionary gets caught up creating systems, sometimes you can over engineer or overthink it to try and go, oh, you know, it has to look like this. Whereas a, quite a, a lot of system ologies, core principles center around the idea of, well, first capture what you're currently doing, let's make that repeatable, let's get everybody on the same page, then we can look to improve. So how did you find that process?

Well, you said it, it's extraction. And well, most people think about extraction, they are not sunshine and bubbles. But I will tell you, when I really think about the journey in entrepreneurship and business ownership, just where we are at Mirror Group at this stage, six and a half years in as a business, despite being in this field for over two decades, Kiva and her team in systemology came at the right time. And I think that you know this because part of this is really a mindset shift within the founder and the owner. You have to be ready to say, okay, yes, you can extract this knowledge from me and you can get this down and we can turn this into repeatable processes. And so I would say that the timing was right on time. Your book, it just, it spoke to me, I'll be honest with you. Like I just remember reading through it and I was like, oh gosh, this is how I felt when, you know, when you just read a book and it just, it's like you and the page, but you and I haven't met yet. I was like, how this. Oh, because I'm not alone in this. Okay, got it. And so that process, once the Mindset is there. It's really about having the right partner to guide and lead, I think. And so Again, Kiva and 516 collaborative are just phenomenal in that. So making sure that we could take the time to start with. Okay, there are. I. I don't want to over exaggerate, but there were lots of systems we could have started with. And so we really had to chunk it down to say, let's do our first systems project. And Kiva had me do the hard work, and we had some collaboration around that of selecting the first 20 systems that we were going to get down. And that mix and that process felt really good to address the team and their needs and where we were and what could ease up some things for them. And also the 20 hats that I was wearing and the ability to get them down to 15 hats. Right. And so looking at that process and the exciting thing about it is just getting the feedback, you know, from staff around. How does this feel and how is this helpful? We had a new hire come on board, and one of the systems that we laid out was employee onboarding.

Yep.

And so she gave really good feedback about, oh, this was great. You know, all this flowed so well. And then there were a couple of things that she added to say, oh, be helpful if. But because we had our systems champion, because we had Kiva, we already had our knowledge workers implementing that feedback so the next new newly onboarded employee would go even smoother. That was awesome. The admin sops. Right. We're doing a lot of work to set a strong foundation and integrated infrastructure. And so those things. And I know you're going to recoil in horror, but running payroll and setting up other things, it's like, why are you still doing that? Woman? Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Getting those down and bringing on board an excellent finance and accounting partner who already had systems in mind, are already implementing in this way, are ready to create SOPs. And us being able to say, here's the handoff of what we have, the sop, the video, the format, you go and have at it and create more. Right. And so that an amazing process as well.

I'm curious, Keva, how do you spot when the business owner, like Mandolin, was ready? Like, was it the passing the book or was it like, certain characteristics that you can spot? Or like, what is it when. Because the business owner needs to be ready for this. Because, I mean, Mendel New articulated it perfectly well. Effectively, you're leading this for the team. So while you might not be the person doing the documentation or all of the processes, you still need to be able to say in front of the team, this is what we're doing. This is important. I back this. This is how we do things here. So I'm curious to know. Yeah, Keva, if you have any tips on how to spot when someone's ready.

Yeah, that's a really great question. I think really for me, when I work with clients like Mindolin, it's that understanding of that I'm literally honest. It's going to be a mindset shift and see how they respond to that. If there's the recoiling in the everything is fine and we don't need to fix anything. You know that this probably is not the time to engage in this work with them. But also understanding whether or not there are signs of coachability and that your feedback. Even in those intro sessions that she and I had in conversations, her husband is very systems minded. So like I was talking to both of them and it was hilarious because he's nodding in agreement on so many different things. But I think that was also important in that if I wasn't always able to convey a message, I literally back channeled and went like to the husband. But really seeing what that looks like and feels like in terms of how receptive are they when you start down this road into this process and seeing what they're. They're checking their temperature on this. And when we had those initial conversations, she was very much like, look, this is where we are. She had no hesitations whatsoever about pulling back the curtain. And I think that's another aspect is if an owner is not going to be transparent with you about what's really going on and let you do that deep dive, then it's really going to be a tough road to hoe because you're not going to fully know what's taking place behind the curtain. Behind the facade of everything's great and everyone's working well. And so she was very transparent parent. She was very receptive, very coachable in like, hey, these are some things that I think you guys need to take part in. And she really was like, okay, this is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to move this forward. This is who's going to be in. There was a spreadsheet or two. I will just not lie. There was a spreadsheet or two involved in our conversations. But it was really about those factors around. There was no hesitancy around this. But there was also that here it is, I'm a lay it out for you there so that, you know, and even along the way, it had. We, you know, had some hiccups in the beginning, and we were able to work through those. But it's just now a process. Like, even though she says that's what she is for her clients, it's now a systems process that we're like, whenever we see something else take place in the business, she's, we need a system for that. Because so it's like, now we have that process of, like, continuous improvement on what we have, you know, already done and when things are identified. But also that thinking of we don't have this outlined and we need to have this outlined so that we have that necessary repeatability. So I think when you factor in coachability, willingness to be transparent, and truly just an openness to receive and collaborate, those are things that you want to look for.

Yeah. Mandelin, I'm curious. You mentioned about having the Systems Champion. Was that someone that you recruited for this position or someone that was already on staff? Like, it was. Was it obvious to you who that person would be?

That's a good question. This is someone already on staff. And so the Systems Champion is real work, plus an honorific title and a little extra for thank, you know, thankfulness for guiding this process. But this was a teammate who already has a systems brain who already thinks in that way, who, when we shared the book with her was like, yep, this makes sense, and had her own notes and comments. She was already one to give feedback, proactively improve processes, and to make recommendations. So we really had a natural systems chat just waiting for your book and your framework and her team to unleash her greatness. So that's what we did. And what we had to do was, again, because we're tiny but mighty. So set aside some time and set that process for her to engage in the systems champ work. And so we set aside a portion of her time to say, okay, up to five to 10 hours a week, because we knew there would be surge times and there would be slower times just as we were setting up the first 20 systems. And then her project works VR Consultants was the other part of that.

Yeah, you mentioned about how to maybe step into this. That seems to be a big thing for a lot of business owners, especially when they're smaller. It's allocating the resources to this because it's. You don't see an instant return always for the work. It's, you know, systems build upon each other and there's a compounding effect and it takes time to Change the culture. But you jump 6, 12, 24 months down the road and there's significant change. But it doesn't always feel that way at the start. Is there anything that really made you think, I'm going to make this investment to develop our systems culture or what? What was it for you that helped to justify the cost and allocating resources being smaller? It's harder too.

I appreciate this question. Really. It was three things. So one, just going through the journey, which I love to call the joys and the pains of business ownership and entrepreneurship. And it was like, enough with these pains that keep recurring Epistemology seems like it's going to be a great way for us to invest, for us to really have the scalable processes and have everyone be involved in them. So we had tried it a couple of different ways before and so it was time to say, this one seems more promising. So that's 1, 2. Again, I always joke and say when I start my next business, all the things I learned this time around that I'll do a bit sooner next time. Right. And so you heard me say it. We're six and a half years in and when we brought Kiva on, we were five and a half years. And we're almost at a year. Look at that, we're almost at a year. And so I think about that process and it's huge in the United States, right? To be a small business business, to be profitable, to be in business more than five years. It's milestones that a number of businesses don't quite make. To hire other staff to have them full time, salary, benefits. So there were great things that we did. And also I know, and I knew then, like, there has to be a less painful way to do this, you know. And so one of the things that I would tell myself all over again of getting started, do this early. Yeah, like do this from the beginning. I know it seems like a big investment and right now you need to sell and right now you need to deliver. But if you don't want to continue working really long days and nights, I won't say the hours. Yes, this is something you need to do in the beginning. It's going to lead to so much more freedom for yourself and for your team. So those things I think are very important to consider. And then the other part of it, I'm fiscally conservative by nature and I love numbers and scenarios. So it was really sitting down and saying, okay, how much is this going to cost and how much time is this going to take and who's involved in it and what's the value add? And so I had my own kind of calculations, if you will. And it's not all financial. It's time, it's capacity, it's skill set. And then really understanding that once those things are in place, what becomes so much simpler to do? But really the linchpin of it was having a great intensive session with Kiva. And this wasn't even our first intensive. This was like the mid year. And she came up to D.C. we're across the, you know, table in the conference room, and we've got stickies or whiteboard, you know, going on. And she's like, how much time do you spend on, you know, and we're enumerating this time. I know. And she says, okay. And these are all things that. Oh, yeah, a different role could do this, a different role can do that. And when she literally was like, this much of your time will be freed.

Yeah.

Every month, every week. What would you do? At that time, it was just like, it solidified the decision we already made. There's so much more you can do as a business owner when you're in your zone of genius, adding value to your business the way that only you uniquely can. When you're able to offload that knowledge that you have about other things that have to run, that has to be steady. It has to go up to your standard, but it doesn't require you to do it.

Yeah. Oh, that's perfect. You articulated a few insights that I think would help move a business owner forward. I'm wondering, Akiva, you might have some ideas if there were any challenges as you're going through this, because business has challenges, and changing culture in particular can be challenging, and it only gets harder the bigger you get. I think that's why I like what Mandolin was saying is do it early, because as the team gets really, really, really big or you've been around for a long time, they get stuck in the ways and then it becomes harder and harder to change. But are there any challenges that you've seen either. Yeah. In Mirror group or others? And. And how do you kind of help them to overcome some of the challenges as they systemize?

Yeah, that's a really good one. I think one of the main challenges is just constantly reminding the team, especially if you have layers of management. Like when someone comes to you and asks, the first response should be, go see the sop. Like, instead of, this could happen.

Oh, let's go.

And like, all of a sudden, people are making up different ways to do stuff when it's like we already created that. It's right over there. I just need you to take a left and take a right, you know. So really reminding especially those who supervise others or who might be team leaders to first step is refer to the SOP because in that way, not only are you training yourself. Let me first go to the SOPs, let me first go to the handbook. Let me first go to the manager's guide. You know, you're training the team that they don't need to come ask you every step of the way. They need to go research for themselves, which is the sop. So really, I think that's a really just a big challenge. And it's kind of one that's ongoing because you kind of have to after about three months, it's almost like small kids. It's like we talked about this. So, yeah, I don't need you to do X again, you know, and you're like, I had this conversation recently, but it's one of those ongoing conversations because like you said, you're. You're changing culture. You are training people to do things differently than what they had been doing. So I think that's a huge challenge. And I think the other one is just the accessibility of the processes.

Like, where do they exist?

Are they in a resource like you have like system hub? Are they in your project management tool? Are they also in Google Drive? Where are they located and how does team access them? Because sometimes team wants to access them and want that to be their first place. They go look, but they can't find it. Or, you know, if you're like me and you swear a certain word is in a document and you type that in Google, and no matter what happens, Google never gives you that particular document. So having these things readily accessible to the team so that going back to number one, they're able to go research for themselves. I think those are really two of the big challenges that you come up against in this work.

Yeah. As you start to solve some of those challenges, Mindolin, and you watch this roll out, I don't know if any stories come to mind or any wins that you've had. I know you mentioned earlier you had the new team member come on board and she was reviewing and giving some feedback. That's a really great time to kind of reinforce the work you're doing. But have there been any other stories that come to mind where you're like, that just became easier once we got process in place for sure.

So I mentioned that we've onboarded a new finance and accounting vendor. And so having those admin sops that we did with some of the finance and accounting related parts of the work, it was great to be able to say, you know, we still sit with them and I have the meetings and we walk through how I do what we do. But we were all also able to send over SOPs and videos. They say, yeah, perfect. And running payroll. This is the 401k allocation, this is the, you know, whatever the process might be. And I would always say to them, and I'm so glad you're here because you're going to make it better and you're going to make it more efficient. But this gives you a clear insight into what I have been doing so you can make it better. And again, when you have the right vendor partners, if you're a small business that's relying on vendors to help to shore up your back office, which is what we are and where we we are, it's night and day. Because being able to articulate that clearly, having gone through the systemology process and having those resources, they've already turned around. Like I kid you not, we just started onboarding them not too long ago. We had a meeting last week about payroll and reimbursement. We had another meeting the week before and literally, I think it was sent Friday. It's like, here's a new reimbursement form, here's a new process. Sign off on it. We'll create the sop. Here we go. So that's one of the real benefits is vendor onboarding. To say, we have a mirror group way of doing things and I know you'll make it better and more efficient. Here are the resources that you have to do that and even more so. So I wouldn't say that was a lucky coincidence. We were looking for certain attributes and capacity among the vendors that we're choosing. But it also makes for really good selection criteria of what we're listening for. When the firm talks about what they're going to bring, how they're going to deliver and what they're going to do. Systemology is just a great additional resource to hear. Like, are they speaking systems language? Because that's what we need right now, right? Do they have processes that are like, aha, you know, this sounds like a systems, you know, driven process. And it helps us to distinguish between the vendors that will work very well for us for where we are in our development and those that maybe are not the best fit at this time.

I love that because it fits in with we talk about it when it comes to recruiting and it's exactly the same for staff. And in business, you know, it's not like family, you don't really get to choose your family. Your brother's your brother, your mum's your mum and if they are a certain way, that's it. But in business we get to choose. So we might as well choose systems driven people. And building that into your recruitment and selection process is fantastic because business just gets easier when it's systems driven. It's more efficient, there are less mistakes, the business ends up being more profitable. And I can hear it in the way that you explain it, Mandolin, that the quality of your problems that you're working on and solving will just continue to get bigger and you'll work on more valuable problems as opposed to where a lot of business owners get stuck is solving just the day to day minutia and solving the same problem again and again and again. Whereas you build a culture of systems and it's like you level up, you just can delegate down and pass on those, those tasks. Maybe in the sort of the final part here, Mendel and I'm wondering if there's, yeah, any final suggestions or words that you can give to a business owner that may not have yet embraced systems or maybe if you were to speak to an earlier version of yourself, what you might say to them about systems.

For sure. Before I say that, I just want to thank you for that encouragement and the word that you just shared right now. Because really that leveling up is what a number of business owners desire to do, dream of doing. Especially when you are like myself and I think many of us are, you're a technical founder, you know how to do the thing that you're delivering and then you start a business around it. And so it's very encouraging to hear about the leveling up and there's a way in a process to do it. So thank you for this contribution with System Ology. My encouragement, number one, purchase the book, read it and write in the margins. I'm a write in the margins kind of person, so I've got all kinds of notes in here of dog ears, all the things. And I think it is very important to be honest with yourself. If you're reading the book and you're like, I don't get it, it's probably not time because there's a certain mindset you do need to have as a business owner to partner well in implementing this process. If you're reading the book and you're like, I Get it. Oh, that's me. Yes. I've had that pain. Oh, gosh, how beautiful it would be to get rid of this, which was my experience. You need to figure out how you're going to implement this system. You have to find a resource. You have to, you know, designate, allocate those resources. And not saying you just have to jump and do it, but take that time. Figure out the capacity, the skill, the budget, what your timeline is and find a good partner to help you implement it. If you're in the middle, where, yes, this seems like what we need, but, oh, gosh, it seems scary, you know, or I'm not sure about how to proceed, I really recommend that you take some time and just have I call them meet and greets, but get to know some systems folks, right? Have that conversation in particular small business systems folks and say, what would it look like to do this process? Do a little bit of that exploration. So it's not just the scary unknown. I think I need it, but I'm not sure. But it becomes a bit more concrete about how you might do it and the difference it will make. So that's my encouragement. I know it's a little esoteric, but you have to read the book first. I'm telling you, you see yourself in the pages and I was so encouraged because the forward, of course, I mean, you know this story. It's your story, Dave. But Michael Gerber, the E Myth. The E. Myth was another book where I read it and I was like, this is me. Why didn't I get this book years before I read it? And I literally had the same experience with Systemology.

Perfect. Thank you for the kind words. And Keeva, how about for you? Is there anything that you could say to a business owner? You're going to try to decide if Systemology is right for them or any inspiration you might provide them.

Yeah, definitely. I'll just be honest. Operations is not sexy. It is not sales. It's not marketing. It's not the thing that you're like, it's all glittery and shiny and so pretty. It's not. But it's the necessary backbone of your business that if you obviously outside of finances, but if you ignore it, like you are limiting yourself in the growth, the impact, the potential that you and your business can have and as well as the longevity, because the burnout will come and it's going to come hard and you're going to want to toss your hands in the air and what if I build. Let's burn it all down and Start something else or, you know, go to work or, I don't know, eat bonbon somewhere. But like, you want, if you don't want that to happen. And I believe most of them don't because they had this burning passion to get started in the first place. Take the time to assess, like, what do I need operationally? And I think even in that, as Mendelyn shared, having some exploratory conversations, make sure that you partner. I feel with people who take the time to get to know your business. Anyone who comes in and wants to throw out your baby with the bath water may not be your partner. Because no matter what's going on in your business right now, you've had a business, you have things that are in place. What can we do to improve upon those? Maybe some of them do go into the trash bin, but how do we work with what you have and make it better? I think that is one of the things that, you know, can make this process less scary because sometimes it is. We don't, you know, we, we clean the house before the housekeeper comes. You know, we try to organize our books before we share them with the accountant. Let me organize my operations before I talk to someone. Be honest, be honest in what you share so that they have a full understanding and they want to literally partner, collaborate with you on building something greater and not just poo pooing everything that you've built because you, you obviously have existed, you've obviously delivered on your service, you've obviously had a team, you have all these things in place. We're there to help strengthen that foundation, to allow a much greater building to take place because of a strengthened foundation.

I love that. It's a right of passage that all business owners need to go through. If the dream is to build a profitable enterprise that works without you, you can't not do it with systems and processes. Then they are the building blocks. And it's really just about capturing your way and passing it on. And you've already developed a way, you figured some things out, you know who your target audience is. Oftentimes you're selling products and services to those people and you're getting great feedback from those clients and repeat business. So, you know, your business kind of works. Really all we're talking about is how do we now make this repeatable? How do we capture what's working? And in that process, we identify maybe a couple of bits that are broken or things that might be improved. And this is part of the path. So, yeah, I just want to say huge thank you to you both for the work that you do and helping to share the systemology message and being a prime example of that. I know I'll put a link through to Mirror Group LLC so that way people can dig into a little bit more about the work that you guys do. And yeah, just want to say a huge thank you for the shares today.

Thank you so much for having us.

Thank you. This was a fun chat, Dave, and wishing you all the best with this work and your retreat in the Philippines.

Oh yes, it's coming up.