How To Scale A Law Firm - Case Study

Let's say even a new hire asks a question. Well, I'm unsure how to do that. The first thing is, well, there's a video on Systems Hub for it, and I love hearing that because there is. And then it's a step by step, and it's not interrupting someone else's workflow.

Hello, it's David here and I'm so excited. Today we have an interview with a systems champion. I'm here with Carly Salisbury from Crow Estate Planning, and we're going to dive into her story. So maybe just to start, Carly, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that Crow Estate Planning does?

My name is Callie Salisbury, and I am the systems champion here at Crow Estate Planning and Probate. We are a boutique law firm that primarily focuses on estate planning and probate. We have a slogan here that you have a legacy, let us help you protect it. What we do here is for estate planning. We do things such as drafting wills, trust powers of attorneys to protect your assets and your legacy. And then we do the flip side as well. When you lose a loved one and assets are solely within their name at the time of their passing, we help assist during that time. We currently have three firm locations. One here in Clarksville, Tennessee, where I'm at. One in Nashville, Tennessee, and then one in Hopkinsville, Kentucky.

Oh, very cool. And what size team have you got?

Currently we're at 15 staff members and expanding.

Awesome. And can you tell us a little bit about how you came on board as a systems champion? Were you working in the business and then this was an identified role or was it recruited specifically for the role?

So, and I'll go a little bit back when, when the firm first started back in 2019, it was just our founder and owner and head attorney here, John Crow, and one other employee when we first started. And we fast forward to now to 2023, where we're at 15 employees and expanding. And so I had started in a different role initially and with my background, I am a former educator and I've always loved teaching. Differentiating those learning styles and having that standard operating procedure to follow to help someone learn a new concept. So John approached me about it. He. He told me he's been reading over the couple years. He read the book the E. Myth. Yes. And then read your book Systemology. And he wanted to get from that stationary to that scalable level. And so when he, when he first told me he wants to create systems for everything that we do in office, and I was like, oh, my goodness, like, how how am I going to. How am I going to do that? And then he hand me and I read your book and really dived into that and the, the critical client flow and all these different things really helped me understand how it was going to be achievable for me to do that with. With within our firm.

Yeah. Because it sounds like you were already almost like a little bit of a natural systems person or that way oriented. What position were you doing in the organization before that?

I was the client experience manager. So I would do some drafting lot drafting work with clients, greeting them, ensuring that they had a good satisfaction experience here at our firm.

Yes. And when John identified, hey, I want to do this, and he approached you about it, how did he explain what the position was or the work that you would be doing? Or did you just give you the book and say, here, read this, I want to do this.

He, he has read it himself prior and he read it a few times and he told me like, what systems are is like a reference point for people to go to to learn how to do a conc. And he wants that for our firm because he, John has something called a bhag, and that's a big, hairy, ambitious goal. And his BHAG is to have in the southeast states of the United States to have a firm in each one of those states by 2040. And in order for him to do that, he knows that he needs to get to that scalable and then eventually the sellable and that that's what he really wanted. And he knows that systems is the only way for him to be able to do that.

Yeah. And is it something when you read it did like, how did you formulate what you were going to do first and second and third? Was that just following the process in the systemology book?

It was. And looking at with our estate, our estate planning and our probate and look, using that critical client flow in order to figure out, okay, what's a good starting point, what's our biggest revenue that we have with that? And that was estate planning and looking at that as our start point and starting there with systems and from there going through and identifying the department heads and then the knowledgeable workers and really following it verbatim through the book. And that, that took that overwhelming feeling kind of out of it for me because it was something that was a system within itself in your book and following that.

Yeah, I know some business owners, when they watch this, they haven't yet found their car league. They haven't got their systems champion. When you Think about yourself and maybe the qualities that would be required to, you know, do a really great job at the systems champion role. What. What things do you think would be important to look for?

I think it's important someone that can be organized within that, that does, you know, like to help others learn. I think that that is important, having good relationships with people. There's aspects of the estate planning that I was unfamiliar with, so getting with the knowledgeable workers and kind of getting that information from their brain and me documenting it so that others in the firm, the firm in Nashville, can reference that system in place. So someone that can be able to do those SOPs and then work well with others would be two. Two big ones, I would say.

Yeah. And as you've gone through the process, because there's always going to be challenges and resistance and two questions. Do you remember at what size the team was when you started? As in how many team members? And then also, what were some of the challenges that you came up against and maybe still come up against as you're kind of rolling this out?

Sure. We are still fairly new at implementing the systems. So I think the biggest challenge that I've had personally is from a legal aspect. So from the probate side, when someone passes and we have to take things to court, every county in Tennessee has different legal documents that they require. So In Tennessee has 95 counties. So trying to. That was a challenge for me, but I kind of use that critical client flow with like a legal aspect to it. And the same thing is like, okay, well, what. What county in Tennessee do we do the most probate cases with? And then focused on that. And so that CCF is applicable in more than just one way, because that really did help me identify. This is the county I need to start in and start my systems in and then go to the next county and then kind of work my way through all 95 of them.

Wow. Yeah. Is there anything looking back now because you've made a good start at it that you wish you knew beforehand, either about this role or the type of work that you'd be doing as a systems champion?

I think I had. It was so many transferable skills from teaching just for me. And I'm used to, like, creating curriculum and stuff like that. So honestly, the book was really good at breaking down each step that needed to be taken, you know, from defining it in the very first stage and working through. I don't know, it was just. Was so easy for me to follow within that. And the steps I needed to take with to putting a little legal aspect twist on it.

Yeah. And as the team embraced it. Because there's almost like a couple of parts to this. There's getting it documented is one thing, but then building a systems culture and getting the team to follow it and think in terms of systems. How have you gone with that?

Actually it's been very well recepted by the firm mainly because in your book really hits on that. Eliminating that single person dependency and nobody wants to be the person in the firm. Calling one person directly over and over trying to hey, can you show me how to draft this document so that they. They've actually really enjoyed it because there is a reference point for them to go to because we do use Systems hub and everyone has, you know, their login and they can go right to it. And it's. It's very organized. It's broken down from the different state to the different county to the different, you know, asking with a will or without a will. So they have embraced it. They've actually requested some like hey, this would be a great idea for assistance. And I love that.

Yeah. And the type of work that you're doing outside of the documenting. So meeting with the systems or with the knowledgeable workers to document their SOPs, that's part of it. Are there other things that you're doing around either thinking about just systemization of the business or making systems easily accessible or. Yeah. Are there any other things that come to mind that have just become part of your role?

I think as far as like my role in general going from I will go even like to the national firm to meet with them because they're in a different county than I am. And then same thing with our paralegals in Hopkinsville. That's a different state. So making sure that I do have a good work relationship with those people that are not here directly with me at this firm. That's become kind of a part of the everyday norm with me in my position. And an onboarding process has kind of come out of this role as well. Being for new hires and showing them this is our systems, this is our systems hub. We also use Asana for our project management side. And the good thing about these two, these were already implemented in our firm prior to this position. But the system hubs has been really amped up as far as having that reference point.

And is there anything that you do like to keep it as a common discussion? Obviously you're discussing about it when you catch up with specific team members. I don't know if you either have team meetings or get togethers. Is there any talk about systems to the wider team and how do you keep it front and center?

So what I do is every month at the end of the month I will send out a newsletter and saying these are the new systems that I have updated this month. These are new templates for our drafting our documents for court. The attorneys and myself and some of our other staff members meet twice a month and I get to share it with them as well. But the biggest thing that's been, I think people have enjoyed the most or the feedback that I've received are those monthly newsletters. And it's know I make them fun. I'll put a cartoon of me on there. Like this month I'm a pumpkin. And it's going to be all these new systems. Come check them out. So they do enjoy that because there's a lot that they look for within that and they're, they're excited to have that system in place.

And I feel like that's key because some people have this picture in their head that systems or process is boring. So there's a certain level of excitement and energy that a systems champion needs to bring and then that becomes transferable and then people start to look at process differently. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

Yes, definitely. We've had new, a few new hires over the past month or so and one specifically comes to mind and it was just like an appreciation kind of email that oh, I'm so glad we have these systems in place because they don't want to do that single person to dependency. You know, they don't want to have to call that person and it. And it really reduces margin for error, especially within our field to where legal documents are so important. The probate process alone can take anywhere from six to nine months and if a mistake is made, then that can extend that time. So they're very appreciative of making sure that they follow exactly how it's supposed to be.

Yeah, yeah, I love this. One of my last questions I'll ask. I'm thinking in terms of someone who's thinking about becoming a systems champion. Like we're trying to really shine a spotlight and create this new role and make it that it's an important role that needs the attention of the business owner and the team. And I can see the idea of a systems champion as a career path for some especially like new apprentices or someone just getting started in an industry. Maybe, you know, a junior lawyer who wants to work Their way up. What a great way to start as a systems champion. Learn the ropes, work with knowledgeable workers and lay a foundation. Yeah. I don't know if you have any thoughts around the idea of systems champion as a path or if you could speak to a systems champion that's watching that you might be able to go, oh, I can give you some insight because I've been doing this for a while.

Yeah. As far as the, the knowledge that even I've gained from just a paralegal aspect since I've started this, I've learned so much just working with those knowledgeable workers and the department heads. And it's a great learning experience. You can interact even more knowledgeable with clients if they come in and they have questions and then you know the answer because you worked with that knowledgeable worker. And I think that that is a great, great place to start, especially if you want to become a paralegal within the legal aspect. If by drafting and creating all these systems, um, it, it's more experience than, you know, just watching, like listening to someone talk about it because you're actually physically doing it.

Yeah. And the recognition that you get from the business owner and the leadership team. I don't know if you could speak to that, because it's a role that a lot of business owners struggle with. Oftentimes they're not systems people or they're too busy and they don't get to it. And it's a real genuine pain point. And then you come in almost like the knight in shining armor, and. And then you're able to do something that they haven't been able to do. I don't know if that's something that you get recognition about because I almost feel like it's a fast path for you to be able to talk with the key leadership team members and become known to them because of your position.

Yeah. And that is often what happens. And I know that's happened with John as well. He's wanted to take the time to create these systems, but there is no time. And the big goal of getting him to work on the business instead of in the business, and he did want that. And I think one of the biggest things is for business owners is to really dedicate that to one person. The systems champion role that can really hone in and focus and take the time that it needs in order to document and create these systems.

Yeah. It can be a big leap of faith and jump for the business owner because oftentimes the work that you do as a systems champion isn't always immediately seen as a revenue generating activity. So it's more of an investment that pays massive dividends down the road. But sometimes that's what makes it hard for some business owners to go, well, you know what, I'm going to dedicate someone to this and, and it's valuable enough that I need to put time, money and effort on this and to give it the energy that it needs. I don't know if that ever came up in a discussion or anything that you're aware of with the business owner about how they calculate. Is this worth getting someone to exclusively focus on?

And a law firm is a perfect example of that. The probate that I was talking about taking six to nine months, the end goal is not going to be seen right away. We will have to go all the way through that process to see did we reduce the margin of error, did we get those documents back quicker and draft them and get them to court quicker. So it will take time in order to see that. And with the estate planning side drafting the documents, sending them to the client, it's not transactional within that moment, from the time that they come in. It is a process within itself and it will take time. But I don't believe that that should discourage any business owner that it's not an immediate right then and there. It will come within time and there will be great gains that you will see later on.

Do you see any short term gains or anything that's happened early on? Whether it's a shift in the way that the team works or you know, quick wins or has there been any sort of stories where you can kind of go, oh, you know, we've got some wins here which is, you know, reinforce that you're on the right track.

I think that the one of the best ones to hear is whenever let's say even a new hire asks a question. Well, I'm unsure how to do that. The first thing is, well, there's a video on Systems Hub for it and I love hearing that because there is and then it's a step by step and it's not interrupting someone else's workflow. And we do work in a high fast paced environment and being able to everyone keep their flow about them at work while you know, a new hire being able to reference these, that that's been a really good win that I've heard. And the more that you talk about it and reference, you know, using Systems Hub Asana, following all these steps, it, it spreads throughout the firm and it becomes a like a natural Habit versus, you know, and I love that. That's one of the biggest wins, I think. And then the expediting of the onboarding process has been another that we've seen. It's just gone so much quicker as far as them coming in and having that expectation of this is how we do things. This is the documents that need to be drafted. This is where you can find them. It's all laid out and that's been great. And eliminating that single person dependency, that's been a huge win.

You mentioned something about this idea of habit and it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately and I see systems as documented habits. It's the step before it actually becomes a habit. So you capture and document the habits of your knowledgeable workers, your best performing team members, and then you're transferring that knowledge to newer team members or less skilled team members for them to learn. So they go, oh, well, this is the habit. And then they do it enough times till then it becomes an internal habit. So it's that idea of we are creating habits by going through this process and we're looking to replicate those best habits.

Yes. And that makes the best practices.

Yes.

And I think that anyone that is starting a business or even been in a business for years, implementing the systems really does make a difference with getting the scalable and sellable.

Oh, wow. I love the insight and you being so generous in sharing what's working at your organization. If people want to find out a little bit more, I'll pop a link through to the website so you can get over to Crow Estate Planning. If you're looking for a systems driven estate planning business, you guys, and you're in the States, you guys are the ones to chat with.

Yeah.

Just a huge thank you for being a great example for systems champions and business owners on what they should be looking out for.

Well, thank you and I really do appreciate it. I'm so excited that we got to chat today and if you come out with your next book, just let me know because I will definitely be reading it.

Perfect. Thank you.

You're welcome.