How To Sell A Plumbing Business - Case Study

Systems have had a massive impact to the point that Dr. Drip was a smaller team, still doing a great turnover, but making more profit than ever. And we just had one lady in the office running a team of five trucks on the road.

Today I've got a real treat for you. I've got an interview with the founders of Dr. Drip Plumbing, Andy and Angela Smith. They've got an incredible story about how they turned their business around, systemized it, removed themselves from the day to day operations and just recently sold it. It's been a roller coaster as business always is. And now in their new company, Lifestyle Tradies, they're teaching other trades based business owners how to do the same. Now I know this is the dream of so many business owners to build a business that doesn't rely on them. So Andy and Angela, they've achieved this and so much more. So really excited to find out how they did it. So let me first welcome you to the Call.

Hey mate, how you doing?

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Oh, it's a pleasure. Maybe just a start if you can tell us a little bit about doctor Drip Plumbing and the clients that you serve and where you guys are based.

Yeah. So the plumbing business, Dr. Drip, we started that 21 years ago. We started like everyone at the house in the garage and, and we obviously grew quite quickly, or we did grow quite quickly. At our peak we were turning over a couple of mil and we had a team of 17 and, and things were, were going pretty well. And, and I suppose this is where the whole systems and structures come in. We, we had along the way we, typical tradie business owner, our foundations were not right. We'd grown the business way too quick. We'd gone from making really good money to all of a sudden making massive turnover but hemorrhaging money and, and we hit a bit of a snag along the way and, and systems were something that we realized that to make sure we had consistency within the business, we needed to make sure there was some structure in the business.

Was there anything that triggered it for you as far as like, because you had that scale and you were growing and then at what point did you think we really do need to bring some structure in here?

I think it was at a point where the business had just grown way too quick. As a business owner myself, I thought I was an incredible businessman and realistically I didn't know much at that stage. Looking back on it now and the businesses grew out of control and what most trade business owners do. You mentioned lifestyle trading we do this a lot these days. But most business owners, they grow their business on chaos. So they get so busy, they get so overwhelmed, they don't want, don't know what to do. So they get more staff in the office or more staff out on the road and try and fix it that way. And as you know, David, and we all know now, is if you can structure your business right from the start, get the right foundations, the right systems in play and everyone follows that, you don't have anywhere near the challenges that you do when it's out of control.

Do you see yourself as a systems person or is it more Angela or what kind of happened for you to kind of go, ah, okay, we're going to need to put some systems in place.

There was a very specific incident that actually happened inside Dr. Drip where we had an office manager. So Andy had been off the tools for quite some time and we had an office manager who thankfully Andy had the, the interest to ask them to actually systemize their business to literally document in word files their exact job description. So we had these really huge manuals that sat on a shelf gathering dust. However, Fast forward maybe 12 months and our office manager Ashley had a health issue. She was raced to hospital and she was actually uncontactable for 10 weeks. And it was a period of time where we just had a child and I wasn't actually in the business. And I remember having to show up that Monday and sitting in this office manager's chair thinking, I've got absolutely no idea what she does or how to do it yet. These folders on the shelf actually saved me during that time and that it did highlight to us that they needed to be better. And it wasn't just the admin side, the office side of the business, the entire business needed the same systems to ensure that everybody knew each other's jobs. So we actually had to unfortunately experience something that was not fun. Yet most business owners will experience perhaps something like that within the course of their time of owning a business.

Yeah, definitely see that in trades based businesses as well. You've got like the tradie husband and wife couple, like that dynamic duo. And it sounds like you kind of resonated a little bit with the systems side of things. I'm curious to know Andy as well if it's something you resisted or if that's something.

Yeah. So I think, and you know, being an entrepreneur, and I think all business owners are entrepreneurs, I'm not trying to be silly when I say that, but being an entrepreneur and, and being A good tradie and good on the tools and being very, very gung ho and. And wanting that growth. I was always on the lookout for what we could do better. Now I think the big thing is, you know, we. I started getting involved in different events and different things. I saw online and stuff overseas and, and the word systems kept coming up. So I realized that even our business at that stage when we had such a big team wasn't running anywhere near the way it should. I was starting to think, hang on, the reason why things are going not great here is because of systems. And I had a chat with our manager and I said, we need to document what everyone does here and we need to make sure that if someone leaves, we're not left in a massive hole where no one knows what to do. Now, myself personally being that typical yobo tradie guy, you know, I wasn't a detailed guy. I really wasn't a detailed guy. So my team or sat down, I had a meeting with them and they all sat down and they took about two weeks and they wrote exactly what they did day on day and they built a system around their role. And our office manager at the time, she sat in everyone's role and followed it. It was very old school systems, like big long systems. And she followed the role and said, yes, if you weren't in this role, we could train someone up to do something similar to what they're doing. Yeah.

And was that around that point when things were starting to get a little bit hectic and the wheels were starting to fall off as you're scaling? Like at what point? Because it's hard to create the space for systems like a lot of business owners, like, how do I justify the cost of doing this? Which is hard to do if the wheels are coming off.

Yeah, truly hard. And I think as a small business, we're even here today. It's hard. But we were a business doing over a couple of mil. We had five people in the office and we had 13 people out on the road. So we had the capacity because we had so many people in the office. So that helped us go, okay, this is what needs to be done and we could get it done. And as you know, part of systems, if you can get it right, we didn't need five people in the office, but that's obviously what happened. Down the track. We could really streamline everything and make sure that we followed the step by step structure around it. And a lot of people would say to me, so you teach a plumber how to Dig a hole. And how to change a tap washer and how to. Okay, no, no, no. We don't necessarily do that unless it's an issue. Most tradies should know their trade and how to do it. But we would teach them how to use the right job management system. The way you approach a customer, the way you'd upsell and cross sell. Like we had a whole procedure. The way that invoice, the way they'd collect their money, the. The way at the end of the job when they walked away, no one in the office had to do anything, and it was already in the system. We collected the money and the job was complete.

And over what time did that all come together? I know you never kind of complete this systems journey. Like it changes the way that the company becomes. And you adopt a systems thinking mindset. But to go from that level of chaos to try and rein it in, you had some resources you could throw at it, which was great.

What.

How quickly did that sort of fall into line?

And I think what Ange touched on the moment that our office manager had been with us, I think at the stage, seven or eight years, and she was a major part of our team. And when she had that medical emergency and she wasn't with us for, I think it was 10 to 12 weeks, and we realized we had systems, which was good. And Ann stepped in and helped out because she wasn't as involved in the business back then with a newborn child. But it wasn't until after that Ann said, you know what, they were great. They were a lifesaver. But our systems are nowhere near where they need to be for the future.

Yeah.

And to answer your question about how long did it take, we. We really did double down. So when our office manager eventually returned to work and highlighted how I actually coped with getting through following what she had documented, we really doubled down on ensuring how important it was. It literally hit our priority list. And it did take quite a number of months. And to your point, David, it doesn't ever stop because the systems and the processes that you follow change all the time because customers are different. So what our boys are doing out in the field, each step, you know, do this. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Don't break it. But we're constantly asking, or we're asking our boys to always give us feedback. And so therefore, how do we constantly make improvements? So the initial efforts of systemizing the entire business, I would have said takes. Took at least six to 12 months because she was doing it as an additional activity. I Suppose over and above her normal role. And we had quite a big team yet I would definitely highlight that, as Andy said, we had quite a big team. So although, yes, we had the resources, if I had my time again. And hence what we do with lifestyle tradie, we absolutely recommend to anyone in any business to actually start systemizing and capturing these processes early because it's these inefficiencies when you, you organically know what you're doing, when you, whether it's hiring a new team member or following processes in finance, like even little things like how to pay wages or register sick leave. But everyone needs to do everything the exact same. So even how you greet a customer, the quotes you write, how you follow up, like we lose inefficiencies and therefore costs a lot of money when every team member is not doing the exact same thing. And therefore it makes it also much easier when you employ. So I would definitely now, in hindsight say I wish we had started that early. And this is the reason, this is what you learn, isn't it, when you do these things later in life?

Yeah, yeah.

And with that learning and the benefit of hindsight, the idea that you kind of built it to the point where it started to work without you, are there any other obvious leverage points for you in hindsight? Obviously, systems are a real key part of it. Maybe it's in the rollout of systems. Are there any things that you've learned where you kind of look back and now you teach it in lifestyle tradies? Yes, you've got to systemize early and other things that might stand out.

Yeah, I think the big thing and the challenge, as you mentioned earlier, of tradies, everyone knows they've got to have the right structure and systems, but how do they get around to doing that? Systemology wasn't around, I believe, when we got someone involved to help us. And as Anne said, it was a. It was a long process where we had our general or our manager that was the champion, as you mentioned, running these systems. And we had our leading hand off the road and helping with those systems as well. I think the big thing with that in myself personally and I know some other tradies, if they'll listen to this, I may get it. I've always been more of a big picture guy, so when it comes to detail, I'm a bit like. And I really struggled even sitting in those meetings. So I just want to be very open and upfront that a lot of these systems, I would review them at the end, but I didn't get into that nitty gritty. But looking at it now, Those systems made Dr. Drip to WHO it was. And even business owners today understand more than we did 20, 18 years ago, that having the right technology and every guy out in the field doing it the same way every single time saves you so much work in the office. If the guys out in the field aren't following the systems, it takes three to five times as long in the office. So systems have had a massive impact to the point that Dr. Drip was a smaller team, still doing a great turnover, but making more profit than ever. And we just had one lady in the office running a team of five trucks on the road. Now, that is unheard of and I don't know many businesses that are doing that in, in the plumbing game, that's for sure.

I also want to add to that by saying it was one thing to systemize and to, you know, capture what we did with flowcharts and the videos that the boys took. So there were. There were very specific ways that we captured systems. For us, flowcharting very much was. Was the means that worked well for us because everyone was so visual. That was my learning from after what happened to our office manager. But it's one thing to actually capture the systems, but people need to be on board in the process of pulling this information out of. Out of other people's heads, because it's often, you know, I was. We were talking to the leading hand, as Andy said, and only he really understood his role and what it had evolved into. And then once you've got these great systems, then people need to have access to them. So as an example, they may be on a place like System Hub, which is also what we use with lifestyle tradie. But our trade, like the team out in the field, they needed their deck of systems actually accessible as PDF on their actual tablets, so that it made it really easy. You've got to think about who's using them and how to make it so simple for them so that they actually follow them. And then to hold people accountable, to ensure that they actually understood the responsibility of why they need to do things the way they are. We were constantly, Andy and the team were constantly talking about it in toolbox meetings so that the team understood the importance and that the team were involved in actually changing them where they needed to. So they were actually really embraced early. And because I'd say our team had been exceptional, you know, on average, our tradies had been with us on average six years. So they all lived through what happened when our office manager wasn't there for 10 weeks? So they were really on board when we said, we really need to systemize the business. So that helped in our favor.

It did. But the training was, we all know systems don't work unless people are going to do them. But I really had to explain to the guys how, when they weren't doing these little things out on site, how was taking three to five times longer?

Yes.

Some people found that harder to take on than others. Then we'd actually grab some of those guys and sit them in the office and go, okay, you're going to do this job today. And then they would see how much tradies weren't doing the right thing and how bad a job they were doing, and they'd realize how frustrating it was. So that was another thing that kept them accountable. And they realized also our job management system, we would not give them the next job until every single task was completed. So we never gave them a day of work and said, go off. Especially when it was small jobs. They might get between two and four jobs a day, but we did net. We only gave them one job at a time. And the reason for that was to make them not go, hang on, I got four jobs today. I've got to be at the gym at 4 o'.

Clock.

Go. Because if you put too much pressure and you make them rush, they cut corners. So we were all about structuring it the right way and making sure they followed it every single time and holding them accountable. And I think that's the trick.

Yeah, I think having team members see the business go through some of that rocky period and introducing what we need to make changes because of this can be helpful for someone to understand, well, why are we having to change? And you addressed some of the. It sounds like the team pretty much got on board or it just needed a little bit of coaching. Were there any times where there was significant resistance or pushback or the team just weren't doing it? And how did you navigate through those issues?

Yeah, so there was. And that was where we went through a period that we'd grown so rapidly. Things were out of troll that we touched on that. You know, we went from making really good money to starting to lose money. And. And it was. There was a lot of pressure on Ange and I and especially myself. And, you know, I'd still come to work every day with a massive smile and. And act like the world was amazing, but deep down I was dying and. And we were in some trouble. And I Had to go to Ange and say, I've just, you know, we're. We're in a bad spot here. And. And she said some choice words, and so did I. But I will go past that. I won't dive into that story right now. But that. What happened from that was we realized we'd build a business too fast and we had too many overheads and we needed to look at the team and who were the stayers and who were the ones that were going to follow what we needed. And we. We went from a team of 18 or 17 to a team of 12. So I actually cut the ones that I knew were causing a bit of that friction, and we kept the key ones. And then I sat them down and said, the reason why you're here and the others aren't is because you guys are following the systems. Yes, we can all be better, but this is why it's so important. And if you guys don't, you have to explain to them really clearly that if they don't do certain things, it's taking the office and I'm sitting up to all hours of the. Of the night trying to fix it. They get paid to do a job, follow the process, do the system, and do it the same way every single time, and everyone will be happy.

Oh, hey, I know you're tuned in right now, so I'll keep this super quick, but you like awesome YouTube videos, don't you? Well, there's not really that many YouTube channels that create great content about how to systemize your small business. So I want to make sure that you catch every video that I publish. So if you haven't already, firstly, give this video the thumbs up and then go ahead and subscribe to my channel. You can even hit the bell notification.

To make sure that you're the first.

To know when I publish anything. So go ahead, do it right now. I'll wait a sec, and then I'll transfer you back to the video. Yeah, it sounds like. And correct me if I'm wrong, were you, for a good part of this journey, working on it rather than in it? It doesn't sound like were you in at the office or were you out, you know, fixing pipes?

Yeah. So I would say at about the four truck mark, I was in the office. So when we're at three trucks, I was still doing odd jobs. I was answering the phone while I was out in the field. But once we hit that four truck mark, then I realized, okay, I'm in the office. I had a manager at the time. I'm different to Carolyn. It was one of our tradies that was stepping into this role and I was working in an office and then he was doing part on the tools and part not. I will just point out, I think a lot of business owners think they have to work on the business to be successful, and I agree, but some people just don't have the right foundation set up first, and then they. They get off the tools too early, and now they're another massive overhead to the business and the business suffers because of it. There's a right time to do this stuff, and that's why. That's what we obviously teach at Lifestyle Trading. But there's a right time to get back in the office. When do you find that time? It's very, very difficult. A lot of people are like, I just don't have the time. No one does in this world. Even my mum, that goes to bingo three times a week and nothing else, she's got no time. The busiest person in the world. But we need to make times. But if you're following a process, a structure, a system, and you're doing that every single time, then your life is going to be so much easier. Yeah.

And this system that you follow, and there's sort of different stages on what the business owner's doing as you're kind of getting towards the end of almost getting doctor Drip to a point where it's done.

Yes. What.

What needed to happen for do Dr. Drip to be done? Like, when you sat there and you go, this business is kind of working and I'm not really adding much value at this point in time because we've already got it all mapped out. Like, I'd love to know what. What helped you to understand that it was done.

Yeah. I think the day that I went into the office and we still had a fairly big team then, and. And I walked in and said, so, guys, what do you need from me? They said, nothing. And I said, okay, and do you need this? I said, nothing. So then I went into my office and I sat there and I turned my computer on and I'm like, okay, what am I gonna do? And I didn't really know. So I said, hey, guys, can I have a look at the quotes? I'll go over some quotes. No, no, no, no. We don't need you. It's all fine. And it was at that point, and everyone finds this very strange when I say it, but I felt lost. I went home to Ange and I said. And she said, you don't Seem very happy today. And I said, well, I've walked into the business. No one needs me anymore. They won't let me touch anything. And I. I'm finding it hard. And people find this really weird, but Dr. Drip was my baby. I'd built it from day one. I built the business out of being a control freak. In the early days, everything had to run through me, and I wanted to know everything, but it wasn't until we completely structured and systemized and got everything right. And I was only looking at the data once a month or every week, but I was doing two hours a week. It was at a point where I was really lost in my life. And that's how lifestyle tradie was born. I'm like, well, what else can I do? I went and saw a mentor of ours, and I said to him, I feel we're in a great position. The business is great. I don't need to be in there, but I don't know what to do next. And he actually said to us, why don't you teach this to all trade business owners around Australia and New Zealand and around the world, because this is going to change the game for them as well.

Yes. Yeah. And once that happened, I know for a while there you were running Dr. Drip and also lifestyle trading, but just recently you've sold Dr. Drip. I'd love to kind of learn a little bit more about how that happened. Like, how did you come to the conclusion that you should sell and where did the buyer come from? Like, is that something? And did you ever even start Dr. Drip with the idea of selling?

No, I didn't start day one with the doctor Drip of selling. But over the years, the more I wasn't involved. And as I mentioned, the last 10 years, I've only really worked in doctor drip for two hours a week. Then I started going, well, I'm at a position that I could sell. It was never on the radar to sell, but I had someone approach me and I said, no. They approached me. The second time I said no. The third time I said, everything's for sale. And the wheels just started turning and there's no doubt about it, doesn't matter. Anyone in business, once all of a sudden you've made that click of, I do want to sell the wheels. Are you rolling down a hill now like, you're ready to sell? Like, all of a sudden it went from I didn't want to sell to I do want to sell, and it's the right price. Oh, how do we make this happen? And to Be honest, it's been great for us. It's given me more time to, to work with lifestyle trading and other businesses that I'm running on the side at the moment. And, and it's been great. But having that mindset around selling the business, I believe every single person doesn't matter if you're a trade business owner or just any business owner, you should have your business ready to sell at any time. You may never want to sell it, but you've got to have it ready to sell at any time.

And the buyer that came around is that someone that you had a relationship with or they're aware of you, or did they come completely out of the blue? Like, how did, how did that piece happen?

Yeah, he was a local plumbing company that's quite big in Sydney, one of the bigger boys in Sydney. And, and I worked with his brother in the past and Ange's brother had worked with him in the past. Ange's brother's a plumber as well, so there was a connection there. And, and, and yeah, he reached out and just out of the blue, he'd rang actually and left a message. I never got back to him. He rang again and said, hey, you didn't get back to me. So I rang him, he said, listen, are you interested in selling? And before he even finished the sentence, I said, no, I'm not, you know, because I just didn't want to at that stage. But he was very persistent and in the end, yeah, we did.

And what beauty of having a strong brand in market, I'd say. But yeah, generally in the same niche, people watch each other. Right?

I feel like you read my mind there. I was going to say, what is it? Especially if he was already in the space, do you think that he saw in Dr. Drip that he thought, hey, this is worth acquiring?

Yeah, I think there was a few reasons and I think one of the main reasons was how we ran our business and how I wasn't involved. You know, most people when you buy a business, the business owner's so involved that you've got to get them to stay with the business for the next six to 12 months to pull all the information out of their brain as soon as we sold. Not. I didn't do another day after that, you know, I was never involved. Our. Our admin girl that was running and helping me sell the business didn't do another day. Like, we were done. It was all passed over. The business was so structured and systemized, even on their end, they're like, wow, we've never seen a business run as well as this with what we did. And I think you know that that's a big part of it. And it's not wasn't just the systems, obviously the systems that we had in the business helped me step away, but it's the processes of what everyone did and how we talk to customers and how we quoted and how we invoice and how we collect the money and how we built this reputation of not being the cheapest plumbers. But we had 77% repeat work, just residential maintenance customers and it was 77% repeat and we'd been doing a good job. And these people have been been coming back time and time again. Now I think these guys like this guy, they started looking at acquiring business because the cost per lead in Google AdWords went through the roof and they could almost acquire the business and have good quality leads other than getting potential poor quality Google AdWords and they'll getting it at a good price and a good value and, and this guy's bought many businesses after hours and there's more and more people out there looking at doing that.

We all know that it's way cheaper to actually spend money or invest in retention or repeat marketing than it is to acquire a new, you know, someone who doesn't know you attract marketing strategies, for instance. So, you know, from the moment that the sale was on the cards, it literally took three months for the deal to be done and dusted. Because every question he had from us, it was really easy for us to provide the metrics he was after, especially because he was very interested in the database and the power of the repeat marketing. But that all comes down to systems because we were so specific around ensuring the metrics was watched, you know, every single week. Which meant our team were following systems every single day to ensure that the repeat, that level of repeat marketing was maintained. So there's really huge power in all of that for him and was for us.

I think what I love about this story is you guys are the best example of what it is that you teach and the good fortune of attending your annual event just recently and listening to some of the case studies. There was one particular company that you brought up on stage and it was the business owner and operations slash systems champion. And I remember them on stage. It was almost like a junior apprentice that had been groomed into this particular role and worked with team members to document, process and understand how things happened and effectively became one of the most knowledgeable team members in the organization because they had such visibility across what everybody's doing. And then had been groomed into that general manager role and then that had enabled the business owner then to kind of really step out and do that transition we talked about with starting to work on it rather than in it. But I know you see that a lot now, like that approach. I don't know if you've got any insights again for people looking to kind of follow in your footsteps and you're really now finding the shortcuts. Like you kind of went the long way around and figured out the hard way and now you're seeing shortest cut and now you're. That's what you're packaging up in lifestyle trading.

Yeah, 100%. And the. The big thing here is don't build a broken, unsystemized business too fast. We see it all day long. If you get the right structure, the right technology and you have the right systems and everyone follows that, you can be as big as you want to be. And we've had people that have started with us, as one man shows, and now they got a team of 40 or 50 and they're franchised or they haven't franchised if they're set different, their same company up in different states. So we've had a lot of growth. A lot of people have done that. The most business owners struggle because they've never done that correctly from the beginning. And they've never realized that like anything in life, if you don't have the right building blocks, it's very hard to change it later on. And a lot of people try and change the. And we have people come to us and they have staff of 50 and above and doing over 10 million and they come to us and there's very basic things they're doing so wrong. But because there's such a big business it now we've got to try and coach the owner to change his mindset and the staff as well. And some of those bigger businesses, it's like turning the bloody Titanic around in a, in a swimming pool. You know, it's hard, but they can get there. And the guys that have come to us, we've made a huge change to their business just by setting up systems in their business. And the right structure.

Well, it's how you get yourself off the tools, right? Like you can't have a success, successful business where that. Where you can actually truthfully get your time back without actually having an incredible team around you. The best systemized business is one that is consistently profitable and is not reliant on the Owner. So that is the ultimate goal. And what's so fabulous about that is you then as a business owner have choice. You can either be on the tools or manage from the office. You can actually take time away, whether that's only a few days at whim or weeks at a time and know that you're coming back and the business isn't a basket case.

So I just touch on that. I'm going to say it and I hope I'm allowed to say this, I'm going to say it anyway. But some business owners believe their own bullshit. They believe their business is better than they are. And until they come and get someone a bit someone like lifestyle, tradie. If you're a trade business or whatever business, you have someone look from the outside. There's so many things you can do better but you're just not seeing them. And I think anyone in life we need mentors, we need help, we need someone to give us an outside view. And even today Ange and I have incredible mentors still learn every day but people that are in their box and they think my business is amazing and I can't be any better. They're the ones that I worry about the most. Especially with technology, AI and the changing future. Things are moving at a rapid rate these days.

You don't know what you don't know at the bottom. You know the bottom line.

One thing and I always look for again, what are the key leverage points that set off like almost like a ripple effect throughout the business. And I know in a lot of tradie based business they'll have that relationship we talked about at the start, the, the tradie wife and husband and they. Or that, that case study that I saw at your event where it was the junior apprentice having that someone who becomes that agent of change, that systems person, that person that can start to fill in the gaps where maybe the tradie can't see or that they just don't like to think about that side of the business. Have you, are there any characteristics and maybe Angie, you might know that you go these are the characteristics that you want to see this person exhibit to become the right hand person of potentially the business owner to help with that transition.

If you are going to suggest a particular team member, maybe there's someone already in your team to actually become this systems champion that's going to ensure that they're pulling information out of, you know, your trades people for in our industry they need, they, they need to be quite detailed. So there are definitely different personality Styles that you, you are truthfully trying to hunt for someone who loves detail and loves documentation with regards to administration and loves structure and is actually quite driven to ensure that a business is streamlined really well. They definitely need to be a people person and an influencer to a certain degree, which in our situation, it came because Carolyn had been in the business for, by then like 11 years or something. So they all trusted her. She was our office manager. She knew their job as well as her own, but she just couldn't get them. She needed them to get the minute information out of their mind. So they, they were really embraced by her influence, but she needed to be very consistent and, and not drop the ball on ensuring that we had a goal. So.

Yeah, so my take on that is you need to be very detailed when you're building the systems. Yes. But you don't have to have a detailed tradie that's training the boys. No, our tradie, our leading hand, he followed the system. He was amazing and he did have a bit of detail, but he just followed it the same way every single time. And he was a leader. He didn't make excuses and he held the team accountable. And the fact that they could see him doing it the same way every single time, there was no choice. They had to do it the same way every time. And if they were struggling, he'd jump in the truck and he'd go through the process with them and train them the same way. So detailed. Definitely. I'm not a detailed person. I think everyone's picked up on that. I'm, I'm certainly more of that vision. But once you have the systems and everything in place, you need to be detailed to get all that right. But then you need someone that's a really good leader out in the field if it's not you, because I wasn't on the tools out in the field, you, you need someone that can do that. Not all businesses have that person, but you got to start with one. You got to train them up and keep them accountable and once they get it right, do the next guy, side, car, in a car, side by side. And then he moved on to the next guy side by side and the next guy. And then we just held them accountable each week with our job management system. And obviously the lady in the office, Carolyn, the manager, she kept the, the team in the office doing it the right way. And he kept the team out in the field doing it the right way.

As far as when to start. And I know in lifestyle trading now you say from the get go, you should be getting systems and processes in place. So maybe that's my answer. But again, it can be hard for the business owner to justify the cost to invest into creating systems and processes and what's the ROI on it? And oh, I'm not going to see that return straight away. And there's a hundred other things I could be putting my money into. Is there anything that.

Yeah.

You say to, to your group around how to build a case for this?

I suppose I say this all the time. Don't build systems on a broken business model. Yeah. So I understand you need systems to make sure you're getting it right, but you've got to get your business right to be building systems. Now there's no doubt there's parts in the office that you can do straight away. There's parts on the tools you can do straight away. But having the right technology in place, having the right structure in place is critical. And then making sure people follow, then setting up the systems and making sure they follow them the right way, you've got to have the right foundations in place. My opinion, once you do that, it's a lot easier to systemize and for people to do it the same way every time because the foundations is right.

I'll add to that by saying, and if you were to say, well, what do you do first? Because it's important not to get overwhelmed with the project of systemizing. Because we need to understand it's a constant thing that we have to do. Yet the best way to start and what we recommend is to think about what you do repetitively. So for us in trade, regardless of your industry, for us, the flow of a job, you know, how we attract marketing, what happens on the phone or from that contact, what happens to get out on site, how we talk to a customer, how you know the entire process, collecting money on site. If you were to walk someone through the actual flow of a job, text messages before what phone calls, what do the boys say? What's the, the scripting like? Then that, the, the repetition of that to ensure that the team are doing the same thing every single time. What buttons are they pressing on the job management system? What communication happens, how quickly just slow down and think about repetition and just do those things first. So that everyone, if you've got a team, whether even if it's two or five, that everyone's doing the same thing over and over again. Because we aim for excellence through the flow of one job. Because where you fix inefficiencies is where we save Time and money and in trade, as you can imagine, billable time and materials. But you know, how long is a piece of string, about how long a job takes? One guy might take two hours and another guy takes half an hour for the same, exact same job. So this is where if you can actually slow down and look at just that flow of a job and that's important. So repetition is important. Maybe you go, these are certain tasks I'm doing as a business owner and I'm too valuable for that. I've got other people in my team, I'll help them write systems so that I can delegate that work. Or maybe you're getting common mistakes happening inside your business and they need to stop. Maybe you're getting callbacks in our industry. So you start saying, well, why are the callbacks happening? So how do you manage just that tiny process so that those mistakes no longer happen? So they're just some suggestions of how we start saying, don't go systemize every single part of your business at the beginning. Let's just work out how. What are the things that you do most frequently so that everyone starts getting a taste for what does systemisation and the processes look like so that everyone can take ownership.

I love the way that you explain it because feels I don't know how you could build a business any other way as you explain that. And if you are looking to grow and scale and you want to be able to step off the tools, there is no other way. Like at some point you need to solve this problem and you, the sooner you get to that and get to work on it, the sooner that you'll get the outcome that you're after. And it's, it's so I, I see it and I know when I talk to you guys, you see it, it's like how, how to help other business owners see it. So that's.

You know what, David? I can't. It's. It's unfortunate to say, however, most people have to experience some sort of chaos in their business for them to go, oh my God, had we have just had that systemized that problem or that expensive error or that thing wouldn't have, wouldn't have happened to me. So, you know, one of the positives, I guess that we experienced was not a great story, but Andy's father was passed away 15 years ago or so and he was diagnosed with cancer and he was told he had three months left to live. I know this is your story, Andy, sorry I'm telling your story, but Andy literally said to the team I'm just going to spend every single day with my dad. And he just walked away. And the business was amazing. Everyone stepped up, took more responsibility, it was profitable and he was totally uncontactable for three months. And we all, after that we said, oh my gosh, thank God the business was systemized because there's no way we would have got through had everyone relied on Andy for every answer. So I think business owners sadly have to experience something for them to go, this would have been better had I been systemized.

I will just touch on that. You don't have to go through pain to be successful. Well, some of our, some of, some of our best business owners at Lifestyle Tradie started out, started up before they even had a business. They came to us, they were young, they knew they needed to learn from someone and that is came and followed the structure and the systems and everything we did. And they're some of our most successful guys. They've started from one man shows to team to 30 and 40, from one man shows to teams of 10 and 15. You know, and these young guys coming through because technology, they were sort of born with an iPhone in their hand. They just follow the way and do it. They just follow the systems that is follow the structure and they do it. So I get it. There's a lot of us that go through like we did. You go through a lot of heartache and you feel like chucking it all in.