Scale Your Web Design Business With SOPs - Case Study

I wanted to make sure that we're able to deliver that every single time. And again, going back to the idea, when you actually think of your business as a franchise, you go to McDonald's. The Big Mac experience is the same everywhere around the world.

Hello, it's Dave. And today we're digging into business owners and their stories on the journey to systemization. I've got muneeb here from optimize.net he's actually got a web design company, 2Web, that he's had for over 20 years. He's based out of Canada. He's got A team of 12, actually, might even be a little bit bigger than that now. And he helps businesses grow and scale their marketing to help to generate more qualified leads. So maybe just to start Moneeve, if you could tell us a little bit about what you guys do and then we can kind of dig into your story to systemization.

Absolutely. David, thank you very much for inviting me to this platform here. And yeah, I mean, you know, I've been in operations for the past 20 years. We've had our ups and downs in the agency world in the past 20 years, and we've seen this industry evolve and grow in so many different ways. And as an agency, we've had to adapt accordingly. And at one point, you know, we had a much larger team. We had to downsize and kind of go through our challenges and so forth. But we're basically now set up for scaling our agency and also launching our platform Optimize, for helping other businesses scale their marketing services as well.

Yeah, very good. And how did you come across systemology and yeah, our material?

Well, it was mainly through a journey or actually we were experiencing a lot of challenges back in 2014, 2015, and I think it was the year of 2017 where we were in a bit of a slump. And it happened due to a number of mistakes that I made in my agency, in my business. And what we did was we tried to grow very, very fast without having the foundations built from a systems perspective. So we really didn't. We weren't really built for scaling, but we actually onboarded quite a few new employees at a very fast pace. And we were working on some really exciting projects. Very, very custom, very, very, you know, focused projects with lots of different variables. And we were struggling with scaling in that area because we hadn't really developed a very scalable platform. So didn't. By not having those systems, I came across System Hub, which is a part of the research that I was actually doing. I signed up for the platform. And you had some really useful resources over there, which, which helped kind of create a bit of a structure as far as how we can actually scale and, and, and here we are. So.

Wow. I mean, when we go back, that was quite some time and probably even before Systemology really sort of came about. So as you've kind of watched that journey, and I think not only that, you would have seen a lot of the work that I did in my previous digital agency, and that was kind of the bridge when I kind of stepped over into setting up System Hub. I don't know if. Yeah. Anything else has stood out for you when you looking at the work that we've been doing because you've kind of watched us grow and evolve as we've developed our thinking. Yeah. I don't know if anything stands out for you. There's.

Yeah. I mean, certainly you've been an inspiration and, you know, it's been good to, you know, kind of follow some of your work and how you've actually grown your businesses and also now having, you know, System Hub and then Systemology and so forth. So it's been an interesting journey that you've experienced as well as, you know, I've been learning a lot from the steps that you're actually following as well and also trying to incorporate those in my business journey too. And I think the key thing here is that, you know, what I was really trying to do is I was really trying to calm the chaos that I was experiencing in my business, essentially. And there was a lot of things happening and I wasn't able to keep on top of those aspects. And it made a lot of challenges as a result of that. So I think that over the course of this journey, it. The main, the main learning experience was to really think of our business more like a franchise where, you know, you look at franchises, they are already systems that are built and they're ready to go. And we wanted to incorporate a similar mindset where we actually have. If somebody were to come on board in our team, they're able to start. Start their work as quickly as possible and onboard as effectively as possible as well. And it was, it was a very lengthy ordeal. And I would say that we're still working on a lot of things, but. But we're way better off today than we were back then.

So do you see yourself as a systems person? Like, when. If I said, do you like systems? Do you naturally organize? Like, how do you see yourself?

So I have to be. I have to be up from the. I Am not a systems person.

Yeah.

So it's, I'm, I'm, you know, I would say that when it comes to systems, it's, it's, it's, it's always, it's been a challenge incorporating systems. I'm really good at what I do, which is business development and I keep my schedule in very much order. But I'm, but when it comes to keeping my team accountable on certain things and so forth to make sure they follow the systems, that's where I really lacked in terms of keeping my team accountable. And also when it comes to the reporting of the KPIs and so forth, these were some of the things that we had to address as a company. And I did have a very laid back approach and that was fine when I had a small team of five or six people. But as I grew my team it was challenging because now what happens is you have other team members that are relying on other team members in the organization, in the business and if someone's not performing to the best level then it impacts the other team members. And that's really where we fell apart know, at that stage in our journey. So I had to really fix that. And it was more than systems, it was about people management and, and leadership that I had to actually incorporate a role. And, and basically when it comes to systems, assigning a dedicated person to actually implement the systems or create the systems, you know, that's certainly doable, it's certainly something that you can delegate, but you have to have, but you have to oversee that process otherwise it will derail.

So yeah, I love that and that's a key bit, but I don't underscore enough. The job of the business owner really is to be the leader. And while you might not be documenting every process, you need to believe in it so deeply that you lead the team. So I'm wondering if, if something happened or what gave you the insight. Because it's hard for the small business owner to go, I'm going to allocate resources, time and money to this for sometimes it doesn't feel like an immediate revenue generating activity. So especially if you're not a systems guy or don't see yourself as one. I'm curious to know how you came through to the conclusion that you needed systems and then you have lent into it and you've allocated resource to it.

Yeah, I mean, you know, basically I think it was, it was a lot of pain during the process of that calming, that chaos that I was experiencing and partly it was impacting our Financials significantly. So I remember we actually had at one point our best revenue years. Revenue year, which was in. In multiple seven figures. However, our profit was a net 500,000, $480,000 to be exact, for that one year. So we were making so much like our revenues were really good, but our profit was in the negative multiple six figures. So talking $480,000 in one year and another $250,000 the second year. It was. It was very challenging. And, and it didn't make sense to me is like, how can we be losing so much money? How much of an inefficiency do we have in our agency to be able to, you know, make such a huge loss when we're making, you know, multiple seven figures in revenues? So, so that's really where, you know, I think it kind of clicked, where we had to make some very strong decisions. And, and, and, you know, many decisions, I was. They were really difficult ones because, you know, I had gathered my team to a level where they really enjoyed the culture of the company. And, and it's, you know, it's hard because when you have such a great team and such a great culture and then you have to let people go. So we had to downsize and we had to make our operations very lean and kind of, you know, put the building blocks in place so that we can actually think profit first. So, I mean, that's. That's a. There's a really good book called Profit first by Michael. Michael, yeah.

Mike Kellogg. Yeah.

Great. And, you know, that was that, you know, there's lots of insights over there about how you can actually think about that. That approach. So I think that was a huge learning experience because I knew that if I was operating the business the same way that I was at that stage, it was. We were just very, very close to. To bankruptcy. I mean, we were offering great value to our clients. Our clients were very, very happy, without a doubt, because they were getting so much out of this, out of the services that we were offering. But. But we were not profitable as an agency. We were really hurting, so we had to think profit first. And that said, was a difficult one for me because I am all about adding immense amount of value to the services that we offer to our clients. And. And yeah, so it was a difficult mindset transition that I had to do, as well as also lots of changes in the company that I had to go through in order to be able to make this change.

It's sometimes that turning point, and that's one thing I look for. It's what is it that has to happen for the business owner to go, this is now important and urgent and I going to make it a focus. And what you've articulated there, that turning point seems to be common. Like for me it was when I found out that we were going to be pregnant. For like everybody, it's different. But getting to a point where you go, enough's enough and a change needs to happen. As you started to then make those, and you hinted at it earlier, you've got a systems champion.

I don't know if you can tell.

Us a little bit about that person or who in your organization helps to support and keep systems front and center for the team.

Absolutely. Well, at first, you know, it had to be me. So when we downsized as an agency, we had to kind of look into the systems and I was, you know, obviously looking at what it where we went wrong, essentially. Right. So at the point I remember this was, I think back in 2018, I was a little over a million dollars in debt overall. And, you know, those tough decisions were made at the end of 2018, 2019, early 2019. So when we downsize, it was just me and one other person. So we actually went down from, actually from 27 people to two people.

Yeah.

And then we basically had to kind of rebuild the agency and the systems that surround that. So. So it was me working on the systems. It was me trying to see, okay, where we went wrong and what we need to do to make our operations very efficient. And then obviously, you know, having a good administrative person on board who had a background in basically in finances. So she was really good with numbers, she was really good with spreadsheets. You know, she helped us create some process documents and so forth to help lay out the steps required in our agency. Some of the materials that you provided in your system hub as well, were a good asset as well. And then we looked at, you know, obviously reading certain resources from Michael Gerber as well. And in emit, because I was very much the technician in my business and even, you know, even 15 years in, because, you know, I've been business for about 20 years and 15 years in, I was still very much the technician. And I had to kind of think about how I can actually separate myself from. From being in that position and be the manager, be the person who was working on the business. So that was a significant shift. And for that I actually had to hire for key roles that would create the most impact in my agency. And that was okay. In finances and systems, you know, what can we do to actually make them airtight and have them set up for scale and then work on adding other team members for other services, key services that we were offering at that stage? Thinking.

Because you're in a creative digital agency, and I'm, I'd love your take on systems in that space because historically there's been a lot of people who think, oh, you can't systemize the creative component. And how do you approach that when you think about the work that you do for your clients? Like, is it obvious to you where you go, of course it can be systemized or is it parts of it can be systemized, Parts of it can't be, or is it. Yeah, I'd love to get an idea on how you think about systems and the creative aspect of your business.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, there's always certain things that I think cannot be systemized, and that's when it comes to judging whether the work produced is good or not. So, for example, you can still have somebody go through the systems and produce a design or a concept for a project that we're working on. Now, that concept may not be good enough. And that's where really we have to kind of think about, you know, what can we do here to make sure that the creative output through the system is meeting certain standards? Because, you know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And, you know, when it comes to good design, certain designers can do a really good job. Certain designers can't. So I think, you know, in that, that is, that was one of the key things that really still required a lot of my involvement as far as what I, you know, what will actually meet the client's needs. So I did was, you know, I actually started having a lot more transparency between our production team as well as our clients. Clients as well. So having our creative director speak with, you know, the. Having them involved in the meetings that we have with clients as well, that was a really. That was a pivotal shift in our, in our process too, because by having those discussions, even if they were not partaking in the actual decisions, they were still getting to hear about the pain points that the client is experiencing and trying to solve through the design we were creating. So by having those discussions and having them involved, we basically were able to break those barriers and also produce better creative work that met the goals. So that's one step that we took that was. That was pivotal in terms of our processes. And we really have. Didn't have to make some changes, like any changes in the systems it was more of a change in how we did things and have them be involved in some of those meetings. Now, that did take away time from other areas that the creative director involved with, but I think it also helped develop the skill set, needed to be able to relate to the customer and also produce a much better result. So at the end of the day, it required less iterations and less frustration from the customer's perspective because they were able to get the work produced in a better manner in a much quicker fashion.

So whenever I think of our video production business, that always taught me so many interesting lessons with the creative side of things. Like, I found creativity will expand to whatever space that you give it. And the young creative videographers that we have could have taken weeks and weeks and weeks to produce a very short video, and that might not be very profitable for us. And I found that the systems, it's almost like it created the structure and gave them the rules on, you can be creative, but you kind of have to be creative under certain constraints. Because as a business, a small business, if we're not profitable, then the business grinds to a halt. So we need to make sure that we. We allow you to be creative within certain parameters to make sure that we're still profitable. And I. I think, I love hearing when creative agencies take this stuff and apply it to their business, because they do, they go from underperforming. And it's very common for digital agencies to either be scraping by or not making money. And systems can be such a turning point for them. I'm wondering, as you've done this and you've watched your business change, were there any either lessons or things that have worked really well for you or ways that you've kept systems front and center? Is there any tips that you have picked up that, oh, this was helpful for us?

Absolutely. I think one of the things that I always wanted to improve in my agency was to improve the customer experience. And when it came to providing consistently great experience to our customers, whether it's through the production process or whether it's the end result, when we, when we launched our project, I wanted to make sure that we're able to deliver that every single time. And again, going back to the idea, when you actually think of your business as a franchise, you know, you go to McDonald's, the Big Mac experience is the same everywhere around the world. Right. So the taste, the setup and everything, it's. It's all. It's all consistent. And this was very, very important for me to actually kind of Kind of achieve in my agency as well, where when we are delivering something or when we are even producing or in the production process, we want to make sure that we have certain touch points that, that delight our customers and, and basically prepare them for what the end result is going to be. So it helps them get bought into the idea and the direction we're heading into. And at the same time it actually delivers a good experience. So by keeping the customer in mind, I was able to kind of basically backtrack. If this is the kind of experience I want, then what do I, what do I need to be doing in my systems to be able to achieve that? So able to kind of reverse engineer and kind of see, okay, these are the different pain points that usually customers experience during production, trying to, during the launch, during post launch. And we were able to identify those pain points and then be proactive about having those steps in our systems to be able to have those conversations with customers so they can be better prepared. Oh, hey, by the way, this is the next step and you may experience this barrier or we may need some technical information from you and you need to be prepared for that. Right? Yeah, there are certain things that could go wrong. So risk management was another key factor because when we are launching websites, we want to make sure that especially if they previously have a website, there's going to be some dead links in Google that are maybe not redirected to the right place and so forth. So all those aspects, we need to educate our customers and be better actually in our customers about those aspects so that they can understand that this may not be a smooth sailing process. There may be some things that you may experience that could result in some downtime. You just have to be prepared for that. So by improving our communication with our clients and by preparing them for some of these issues that may arise, we were able to still work with those issues, but have a better customer experience because they were well informed.

Were there any other areas that have really benefited from systemization? Whether it comes to mind from a story where you go, oh, we did this and this particular change happened, or if there are any just particular areas where you're like having systems in this department or in this area of the business has had a significant impact, like customer experience, you've just described as one. Are there any other areas that stand out for you?

Collecting bills, I guess collecting finances. And the finances was a key part that I needed to address because we were not that great in following up on outstanding payments and funds that we're actually owing. So we actually had to have a very strong system there and also a really good understanding with the customer as well to be able to make sure that they are following a certain schedule. Because if we were, if the payments were delayed, it actually impacted our agency significantly with the margins that we work with. If we are missing even a single payment, it can have a huge impact on the profitability of the company. And in order to stay in business, we had to make sure that the finances were followed up on in a regular manner and we were able to collect those outstanding debts in a timely manner. So having those systems in place for that was really helpful. At one point there was a talk about partnering with a collections agency, but I refused that approach. I was like, you know what, let's work with our clients. We've got really good relationships with our clients. Let's work with our clients to see, okay, if there is an issue with a bill payment. Let's find out what the root cause is. Maybe it's just a matter of that they were not communicated about the outstanding payments effectively and we have to fix that on our end. It's not on the customers. And so we were really adamant about fixing that piece first. And that really helped a lot.

So, yes. Yeah, yeah. I definitely find the overall business health, like each of the departments really do need to be healthy to have the overall business to run. Quite healthy. Are there any other areas as well? So we kind of think customer experience and finance. Is there any other systems that have been key for you?

Yeah, I would say that, you know, as an agency, we've evolved right. In our services, so doing just websites. We've evolved to offer digital marketing services and a variety of other services where we not only build solutions, but also help you with your marketing as well as specifically with marketing automation. And that's where, you know, our venture optimize comes into play. So, yeah, what we do with Optimize is basically we help businesses scale their marketing and we help build automation that essentially helps the business scale their marketing services and also track their marketing online as well. And by utilizing that system, we can actually offer them better transparency as to how their marketing activities are performing. So if we're doing any marketing services or if any other agency is doing any marketing services, optimize our marketing automation platform can actually help make them understand as far as what exactly it is that is performing well and what isn't. So that helped a lot because whenever we are introducing a new service, it's very important that we are able to manage that service effectively and Also offer the level of support that they need to be able to address any questions and make sure that they're educated on what impact this service will actually have within their organization. So I would say that, you know, systems have really helped us introduce new services to our clients and also, you know, giving clients the benefit to incorporate those systems within their organization as well. So.

When we think in terms of optimization and we're kind of thinking the last stage in systemology, so firstly we just capture what you're currently doing and make it repeatable because huge wins can happen by making your business operate consistently. How do you think about optimization and re engineering of systems and processes? Because once you get a base level down, and I mean that speaks to a little bit about what optimize is about net, the work that you do. But how do you think about it for your business? Like when do you look at re engineering a system and whose job is that inside the organization? And when you make a change, how do you introduce that to the team and roll it out? I don't know if you've got any insights on that.

Yeah. So the key metric that we actually measure is one, customer experience. So if something is actually not working the way that it should and it's impacting customer experience when it comes to the delivery of our product, then we try to identify what can we optimize in our system to actually make sure that this does not happen again. The other metric that we look at is the finances. So again, going back to the numbers, if we are finding that there are certain delays in payments or there's actually a certain issue when it comes to a certain kind of project, and we're finding that, you know, we're not really able to collect the payments, you know, it gives us the indicator that there may be some issue that the customer is not willing to pay for whatever reason, they may not be happy, they may not know that, okay, there's an amount that is owing and so forth. So we have to really look at those granular, granular indicators and see, okay, you know, what can be improved or what is, what is needed to, what needs to be addressed to be able to make sure that this happens, this does not happen in future. And the third part is that by really being very good in tracking time, so even though we have these systems in place, it's very important to understand how much time it takes us to go through these systems and to be able to deliver the product that we're trying to deliver. So if there are certain things that are taking More time for whatever reason, for certain kinds of projects, we want to be able to make sure that we address that as quickly as possible. Otherwise it will lead to inefficiencies down the road.

So I definitely think the. One of the takeaways I took from what you said there was obviously measure like for optimization to happen, you first have to kind of figure out what's your baseline and then from there that helps you to identify the area that you're going to work on. I love that you trace it back to, well, what's the outcome here? You want to provide the dream experience for the customer. So if we're monitoring how happy those customers are, that can give indications and then we can dig in further what they're liking and what they're not. And then going to work on the piece that's broken and that's an area there's a, almost like an art and science for the way that you almost pull that piece of the machine out. You work on it outside of the business over here and get it just right and then you come back and then you place the change back into the machine and then you go back to watching your numbers again and then go, the change that we just made, how has that impacted the number and is it created the outcome that we imagined it would? So, yeah, I think, I mean, we've got some real key insights. I don't know if there's any other final story or bit of advice to help business owners who are on this journey. Some people are just getting started and like I said, it's hard for them to justify the cost for heading down this path because they're like, oh, I just want the latest whiz bang marketing or sales thing rather than thinking, you know, we're making fundamental changes to the way that the business operates. I don't know if there's anything that you can either share or a story that you can tell that kind of hopefully reminds them that this is an important part of growing a business.

Yeah, I mean, certainly I think that, you know, one, one big mistake that we did in addition to not tracking our finances and. And so forth, was tracking time. And this was something that, you know, we really had to get really good at because at the end of the day, our greatest expense is the time of our team. And, and it's very important to track that effectively and, and also determine whenever we are actually completing a project to do a debrief as far as, okay, what can. Even if the project went really well, we want to ask ourselves the Question. Could we have done it better? Right. How?

What.

What are maybe some of the gaps or how could we have improved the delivery of this project? How could we have actually made ourselves a bit more efficient? And even if it's a small iteration within the process that you have, it can have a huge impact over time as you're working on more and more projects, because obviously, the more experience you get, the better you will get, the more efficient you will be. But it's about tracking what those incremental updates are actually having an impact in terms of the metrics that you're measuring and to be able to understand, okay, how you're actually moving forward rather than backward. So I would say that, you know, in addition to the systems and tracking time and finances, it's also very important that you, as an agency for ourselves or as any business, you focus on what you're really good at. And I think that there were definitely some adventurous ideas that we went through where we wanted to tackle some large custom projects and so forth, and they were really good from a revenue perspective, and they were exciting projects because they were very innovative and our team was all up for it. But at the end of the day, that decision of mine led to the detriment of the company itself in terms of, you know, trying to work on something, trying to basically choose something bigger than your mouth. So you had to really kind of. You have to pick and choose who you want to work with and also the kinds of projects you want to work on. So that's. That would be my take as far as, you know, in terms of making sure that you're on a path for success, that to be very careful about. About what you. About the kind of work that you do and. And make sure that you measure it.

So if you feel like systems to a certain extent, makes you conscious about your business, it's easy to do things intuitively and shoot from the hip and, you know, the business owner just makes things up as they go, and that's okay. When you're getting started, what Systems does is it actually brings things that might be happening, happening subconsciously into full awareness and shows a spotlight for you and for the rest of the team that this is what we're doing and this is how we're doing it. So I think that idea, then it. It really holds you and the team more accountable because then there's nowhere to hide. And it becomes, oh, wow, this project really is not profitable. And if it's part of your process to have a debrief afterwards, well, now we're all looking at it, we're all seeing the numbers. It's obvious and great. Well, let's now make an adjustment next time maybe to the system where we analyze and screen those type of projects before we even start them. So I think that's such a key part to this systems mindset and a lot of it has to do with it's just continuous improvement which at the base level is a lot to do with this systems thinking. So I think that's, yeah, some keen insight might actually wrap up there. Maneb. I'll make sure I pop a link through to optimize. Net. I appreciate your shares today and also just being in my world for so long and supporting the work that we do. I, yeah, want to say a huge thank you for that.

Thank you very much, David. It's a pleasure to chat with you here and I look forward to the details. Thank you.