Timeless Wisdom: Male/Female Hour - Alison Armstrong and Taking Out the Garbage

Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to DennisPrager.com.

I am old-fashioned. I like two sexes. And another thing, all of a sudden I don't like being married to what is known as a new woman. I want a wife, not a competitor. Competitor! Competitor!

Talk about it a bit, this crying in the morning thing, this depression, you know, let's get that fixed.

That's what men think, isn't it? What? Unless you've got the answer, unless you can say, "Oh, I know this bloke in the year 6 road who could fix that," then there's no point bothering. How do you write women so well?

I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability.

I love him, I love him, and I don't care what you think. I love him for the man he wants to be I love him for the man that he almost is.

What do people have rows about today? Money, sex, sex, money. He wants, she doesn't want. She wants, he doesn't want. Women have always been a big problem to me, Dr. Fussband. Are you listening, Doctor? Yes, yes, yes, go on, go on. All right, go on, go on, we will. This is the Male-Female Hour, every week at this time, Wednesday, the second hour of the Dennis Prager Show is devoted to that most complex of subjects: male-female relations, the differences between them. And it is honest. You may differ with almost anything I say on these matters, that's fine, but at least know that none of it is said without a— well, I hate to use this word, I hate the word I was going to use the word sincerity. I can't stand the word. I never use it. But, uh, and I know you like it. I know it's, it's more of a word that women like, but I— because there are so many sincere foolish notions and, uh, and actions out there. But anyway, the point being that I call them as I see them. Uh, I do not hide from you, as difficult as many of these subjects are. And that's the nature of the Male-Female Hour. Hi everybody, again, this is Dennis Prager. Oh, a reminder tonight for those of you in Southern California. I am debating the irrepressible Shmuley Boteach, one of the most famous rabbis of America and indeed public figures. And we are doing this in LA tonight and in New York City next Saturday night. That is a week, 10 days from now. Why do men cheat? A debate.

Awesome.

Yeah, it should be fascinating. And it is up at DennisPrager.com for information and tickets, and it's pretty inexpensive. Anyway, and there's still a further deduction, I think, if you mention the show. But that's all available at DennisPrager.com. It's tonight. I think you'll have a ball. I know you will, because Shmuley and I really love each other and differ a lot. Well, my guest is the great Alison Armstrong, and I don't use the term lightly. I think she is great. I think she's gifted with wisdom. You know how highly I value wisdom. I've never met a woman who understood innately, who understood men as well as I believe she does. I also believe she understands women spectacularly well, and that's a very rare achievement. She has helped many, many couples through her work and her writings. She has the widely acclaimed women seminars, or seminars period, Celebrating Men, Satisfying Women. Information about her website and work is also up at DennisPrager.com at the blog. And Allison Armstrong, it's great to see you.

Thank you. It's great to be here.

Thank you very much. 1-800-PRAGER-776. We're going to do something a little different today. Whether or not you have heard her— if you have, obviously, then you, you may have already something to ask— we'd like you to throw out any male/female question. We're going to open up with some subjects, but you, if you have, if you have had some questions that you would like a woman's take on rather than mine, I admit that I am a male, but you know, it's an interesting question, isn't it? Do I have a male take on these issues, or do I have an objective take? Do you have a female take, or do you have an objective take? Are we capable of seeing beyond our gender or sex? That's, that's, what do you answer that?

Well, you and I got a kick out of this last time because I brought up to you that you thought women didn't want sex as much as men because they didn't focus on sex. And which would be from your point of view as a man, men focus, so the problem must be she's not focused on it. And I brought up to you, no, the problem is women don't focus. So I think you always look from a man's perspective. And what I've had to catch myself doing over the last— it'll be 19 years next month since I started studying men— I catch myself over and over and over again having a female perspective. And can I give you an example of that?

Oh, the more the merrier.

Well, this just happened last week. I'm finishing the sequel to Keys to the Kingdom, And one of the characters is just struggling with her husband doing housework, or rather not doing housework, and she's furious about the trash all the time. Now, I've been talking to women about men taking out the trash for almost two decades, and, and what I found out is almost any man is willing to take out the trash for a woman, especially when he finds out what it provides for her. But if you ask him what does he need to do that, He'll say, I need you to tell me when you want me to take it out. Now, I tried to figure out why, right? I'm always looking for the good reason. What is the good reason?

That's why I love you, because I do the same. Go ahead.

So this was the mistake I made, okay? So in tracking down the good reason why a man would need to be told when to take it out, because to a woman it's obvious when it needs to be taken out, What I figured out is that men do notice the trash is full, but they notice it's full when they're putting something in the trash in the middle of something they're already focused on. So they're already on a track and they happen to go to the trash in the middle of fulfilling that commitment, and unlike a woman, they're not going to interrupt what they're doing to take out the trash. So that's why I thought you always needed to let a man know when you wanted him to take the trash out. Well, I'm in the middle of writing the book and these characters have dialogues of their own. It's like they really exist and I'm eavesdropping. And she's talking to her husband about what it would provide for her to take the trash out. And she asks him what he needs and he says, as usual, "I need you to tell me when you want me to take it out." And she says, "Well, I want you to take it out when it's full." And he says, "Well, full's relative." Yeah, that's my male brain exactly. Exactly. Well, it knocked me back on my feet because to a woman, With only an idiot wouldn't know when it's full. Exactly. Well, to a woman, well, this is what it is. We have— we talked about this— we have this thing called diffuse awareness, and it has our environment speak to us. So the pillow is demanding to be straightened. I'm not the one deciding it needs to be straightened. The crooked pillow is saying, straighten me. And the trash, the trash has this inherent need to be taken out. The trash is screaming, take me out. And so I'm in the middle In the middle of writing this one, I realized the trash isn't screaming at the man, "Take me out," and he's going to take the trash out for me.

Correct.

He's providing that for me.

Well, look at any bachelor pad.

It's personal.

And you'll know when men take the garbage out is when it starts to overflow after he has stepped into it as often as possible to compact it so as to avoid taking it out.

Yes, but this is the thing. The biggest mistake women make with men is we take things personally that aren't. Like a man—

one minute, one minute, one minute. Allow me to revel. Allow every male listener to revel at that moment. Yes, by the—

oh God, we take so many things personally that have nothing to do with us.

That's, by the way, why— don't forget exactly where you're going, I have to interrupt— that is why A lot of men walk on eggshells.

Yes.

In talking to their woman because they don't know what will set her off.

Right. Because women have it backwards. There are things we take personally. You didn't do that because you don't love me. And there are things we don't take personally. You're a jerk. And they're the opposite of what's true. The times when we think a man is a jerk are the things we should take personally, and the things we take personally, no, that had nothing to do with you. He was late because he's a provider, he's taking care of your family, and he had to stay late at work. And yes, he knows it's your anniversary and he loves you, but providing is gonna come first. Why? 'Cause he's a man. It's not personal. No matter how much he loved you, he would still stay late when his boss demanded it.

So, bringing it back to a very, see, I believe that we learn from the micro a lot about the macro. So taking this detail of taking out the garbage, if he doesn't, there are women who will perceive that as personal.

Yes.

If you loved me, you would know when to take the garbage out.

If you—

and every man listening is rolling his eyes.

It's not even you would know when, because they don't think that far. To us, it's obvious that it needs to be taken out, and the fact that you kept walking by and walking by and walking by is a demonstration that you don't respect me. That's what women think. And then we're mad. We get so mad.

You have to see the men's faces that I'm looking at.

And that's why you guys are in trouble.

These guys are confirmed bachelors another 5 years thanks to your visit. We'll be back in a moment. Male-Female Hour with Allison Armstrong on The Dennis Prager Show.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

Dennis Prager here, the male-female hour. What there is to be learned from the littlest things, and that's where we learn them actually, because they signify bigger items. And I'm talking to Allison Armstrong, this gifted woman with regard to male nature, and yes, even female nature. Her programs are listed up at DennisPrager.com. Understanding Men, oh, is the— was that's the name of the website, or is it still? Or is it celebratingmennow.com?

We have everything. AlisonArmstrong.com and celebratingmen.com.

I was on the DennisPragerShow.com.

Whatever happened.

I never thought of that. There you go. Exactly. Exactly. But anyway, go to her or just go to us and we'll direct you there. Either way, go to DennisPrager.com or to her. But do it because it'll help your life. That is a free recommendation and a heartfelt one. Taking out the garbage and what it means to the two sexes, the different meaning here. So let me understand that the bigger point you're making is what now? That the man doesn't see when it's full, she sees when it's full. It is, and well, one of the points which men need to understand and women need to understand about women is you're— I love your language. It's not that the pillow needs to be straightened. It's that the pillow is yelling at her, "Straighten me." Oh, absolutely. It's like voices.

It is.

Yeah, I—

But they're not in our head. They're in the pillow and in the sock and in the grungy table. Our environments are incredibly loud.

Fascinating. And the garbage is saying, "Take me out." So, and again, she takes personally if he doesn't. Right. But she doesn't take personally if he doesn't straighten the pillow. Why, why the garbage but not the pillow? Because it's traditional that men take out garbage but not straighten pillows?

Well, okay, I gotta put another piece in here, right?

I thought so.

Women are, as you already know, feeling-based rather than thinking-based. We're feeling-based. But it's even more than you know. Almost everything that a woman does is in order to make herself feel a certain way. The clothes that we wear, the shoes that we buy, are to make ourselves feel a certain way. The way we keep our environments is to make ourselves feel a certain way. The hardest job a man has is, is we keep men around who make us feel feel the way that we want to feel, and you have no idea how to make us feel that, but that's what we expect you to do. So the trash for women— there are women for whom the trash is a big thing for them. There are women who don't care about it at all. But for the women for whom it's a big thing, like me, it's how it makes me feel. An overflowing trash makes me feel like my life is overflowing. Like I can't handle it, like it's too much for me, like I can't just keep going and creating. And an empty trash is like, "Keep going, babe!" Just an empty trash, I cook. An empty sink, I cook. A clean kitchen, I cook. If it's empty, it's like a canvas for me. So it's all about how the trash makes me feel. And then if I have to take the trash out and it's stinky, or I have to take it out to the side yard, which is a mess, and I have to go through the dirty places, and I have to go and have to lift the lid, and it smells, and then I feel like I need to take a shower, and I stop feeling like a princess or a queen. I feel like a maid or a sloth, and I just want to go crawl in a hole.

So if he takes it out, he is enabling you to feel right?

Yeah, he's saving me. He's saving me from the uglies, the dirties, the smellies, and the overwhelmed.

Mm-hmm.

He's the trash can.

But you don't want to tell him that? You want him to know that? I mean, you, not you personally, you the female.

It's not that we don't want to tell them that. We think it's obvious and that we should—

that's the same thing.

Once, once I teach women, anything you need from a man, you have to tell him what it will provide, because to a man, nothing is worth doing You do not task for the sake of the task. A man doesn't do that. Anything a man does is because of how many points he's going to earn or the difference it's going to make, the end result. He's— you guys are acutely aware of the expenditure of energy, and it's got to be equal or better for you to do anything. And if you get a lot of points for taking out the trash— I mean, I have to tell Greg to not take out the trash. It's not ready yet, honey. But he gets so many points for taking it out, he's like, "How about now? How about now?" Because he gets that many points. So, anything a woman wants from a man, she has to tell him the difference it will make in her life. Because that's all he cares about. The trash is— there's no inherent need for the trash to go out. There's no inherent need for the piano to be dusted. But it makes her feel peaceful, serene, happy, loving, want to have sex? Okay! How do I dust the piano?

Of course.

Yes, that's my larger point.

That's why I have her on regularly, folks. You just heard it in a nutshell. Let's take some calls here.

And can I tell you something about that though? Because you have so many men listening. Sure, guys, you don't have to wait for her to tell you. You can ask, honey, well, how does that make you feel? Oh, I know it seems like a terrible question to ask. Out of here, Dennis. Hear the word foreplay.

I'm gay.

Foreplay. Foreplay. Honey, how does that make you feel? That's foreplay. What do you like about that foreplay? I'm not kidding. I can't do it. Well, you know me, I'm a big fan of men getting as much sex as they need, so I'm always trying to teach you guys how to get it. Ask her how that makes her feel.

Honey, how does it make you feel when I dust the piano?

Yeah, how would it make you feel if I dusted the piano?

Sex is important, but not that important.

Well, the other thing I'm trying to teach women is, I call it up your ask. Quit asking heroes to dust the piano. They want to say no.

Yes, thank you, that's correct. That's correct. Honey, I want to save civilization. What would you like me to do? Let's go to Freeport, Maine, and Karen. Hi, Karen. Allison Armstrong and Dennis Prager.

Hi, Dennis. Hi, Allison. I have a question for you. I would like to know your perspective on why men cheat.

Oh, it's a great question, Karen, and thanks for calling. Infidelity— I wish I could, like, I don't know, drill this into women's heads— infidelity is always, always, always a result of a man not getting something that he needs. And women make the mistake of pitting a man's needs against his integrity. Men have amazing integrity. They don't set out wanting to be unfaithful. They want to keep that promise, but we put them in a pickle where they need something so badly that they're in a battle with their own integrity, and their integrity loses. And the reason is the need comes from instinct and human animal. Integrity is an expression of human spirit.

You'll explain that better when we come back, because it sounds like you're blaming the woman every time he's unfaithful. We'll be back in a moment. You're listening to The Dennis Prager Show, the male-female hour.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

I'm Dennis Prager, and this is the Male-Female Hour. My guest is the inimitable Allison Armstrong, explains male and female natures in profound and original ways. And information about her seminars and other work are available at her websites, or just go to DennisPrager.com and you'll, you'll be directed there. Now, uh, our caller, a woman in Freeport, Maine, called up and asked why do men cheat, and you were answering, uh, that, uh, and tell me if I have you right, that you, you began your answer, let's because we had to interrupt it, with that by and large they're not getting something that they need.

Infidelity is always in response to something that they need. And there's a lot of different things that we should be looking at.

By the way, is that true for both sexes?

Yes.

Right. And now obviously I think, and I never put words in your mouth, one couldn't if one wanted to, but I do want to make clear. We're not talking about, uh, the, uh, those who lack integrity and who just seek a conquest after conquest no matter how well they're treated at home. Is that correct? We're talking about the average male and average female.

Yes, there are men who, the way I would put it, um, are not qualified to be married.

That's right, exactly. Well put it. Perfectly well put.

Yeah, they're not willing to make the trade.

Few men though, right? Exactly. But I want to say few men, and I've never known any, go into marriage thinking they'll cheat. Every man I know— now I know a fairly high-caliber guy, I admit it— but let me just say though, on their behalf, every man I know went into marriage thinking, I will be faithful till I die.

Yes, most men plan, most men plan on being faithful, right? And there's a large percentage of men who know they're not monogamous and never will be, and they'll tell women that straight out. And the problem is women don't believe them. They think if they're good enough in bed, he'll be monogamous. They don't know that she could be an Olympian in bed and he's not gonna be monogamous. And he's telling her that, but she's not listening.

Right. Okay, but that's a smaller percentage.

It's a small percentage.

Okay, fine. So what is it that, that they're not getting?

Well, there's several categories, okay? And first of all, we have to say we're talking about a long-term relationship based on caring. I'm not talking about a dating relationship based on sexual attraction. When a man is just sexually attracted, he doesn't have any of himself invested in the relationship, so there's nothing to lose. There's no cost to him. It's one refrigerator for another. So I'm not talking about that kind of relationship. And too often women put themselves in that kind of relationship and then are surprised that the guy cheats on them when they already know he doesn't really care about her. And she can tell because he doesn't pay very much attention to her, but she's like in la-la land about it, you know, trying to make something in her head out of it that isn't actually there. So I'm not— we're not talking about that either. So we're talking a committed— what would happen in a committed long-term relationship where monogamy is promised, why would a man cheat? It's going to be because there's something that he needs, something he really needs that he's not getting, and it could be sex. A surprising number of women think because they don't need sex, their husband doesn't either, and so it doesn't matter whether or not they provide it. I mean, it's still shocking to me in this day and age how many women will go weeks and months without having sex with their husband and think and still be shocked that he might be unfaithful. So that's something we have to get through our heads. And a really important question for us to ask our partners, men and women, you know, if you had it all your way, how often would we have sex? And you gotta listen because people get weird, especially men. You guys get really cranky and squirrely and weird and all twisted up when you don't have sex often enough. And it's because it, it affects your ability to focus. It's like, it's like trying to focus when you're hungry, you know. So you guys get really off when you don't have sex often enough, and it's usually more often than your wife would like.

And feel unloved.

Yes, you feel unloved, disconnected. She doesn't care about me. There's so many, there's so many consequences just because of frequency that could be fixed with that one thing. Then there's also you.

Okay, we'll come back. You know why I have her on so often? Because she's so honest and so insightful. Allison Armstrong with Dennis Prager on the Male-Female Hour.

Oh, I see.

You guys wanted that herd. Is that it? No? Okay, fine. Dennis Prager here. The Male-Female Hour, every Wednesday, the second hour of the program devoted to the most honest talk possible on the great difficult subject of male-female differences, relations, etc. Uh, my heroine Allison Armstrong is on with me today, and her body of work is on the internet and at seminars. Go to DennisPrager.com, you can immediately find out where to contact her and find out about her work. And, uh, the caller from Freeport, Maine asked why man cheat. Obviously we could devote hours and hours and hours. By the way, tonight we are devoting hours and hours, not Allison and I, uh, as it happens, but Shmuley Boteach and I will be debating that very subject in Los Angeles. That too is at DennisPrager.com. And for you on the East Coast, we're debating the subject in New York City in 10 days Saturday night of the following week. And you were speaking about putting aside the, the bad guy, etc., or the, the, the impossibly non-faithful one who even announces that to his wife when they get married, but she doesn't believe him.

Well, usually they announce it on like a first date.

Even on a first date, that's right. She should believe him. That's correct. You're not going to change him, correct? Uh, you wanted to add one more thing because we want to go to Kohl's.

Well, we talked about just the sheer frequency of sex, um, can cause a lot of— can work really well or cause a lot of problems. But on one of the breaks, you said, really, if a woman is sexually giving, will her husband cheat? And I, I liked that term, sexually giving. But most women don't know that it It's not enough to be willing to have sex. Our husbands need to feel desired by us. They need to feel desired. They need to feel like they're hot. Women hate to be treated as sex objects. Try treating your husband as a sex object and see what happens. They— it's like, it's awesome. It's awesome for them. And so it's not just the frequency, but it's how much of your heart and your soul and your play and your imagination and your sense of humor are you willing to put into that time together. It can't be a chore, and too many wives do it like a chore.

Let's go to Granbury, Texas, and Sandra— or Sandra, what do you say, Sandra or Sandra?

No, I'm from Texas. It's Sandra.

Okay, excellent.

Go ahead.

Hi, Allison. Let me tell you first, I know that all the men are loving your calls, loving your comments. Now the women that are screaming at the radio, oh, they're going to be loving my call because I have a tyrannosaur-sized bone to pick with you. And I don't even know where to begin except I know one thing I want to say And that's a while back, last time you were on Dennis Prager. You had a call from a— or a story about a man, or Dennis did, who just goes to a card shop and says to another man standing next to him, "Every card I pick out will be wrong." And all of America listened and went, "Oh, that poor man." And I want to give you the flip side of that. And my main problem is with you is that you are a male enabler to me. You never ask these boo-hoo men who call in with their problems, "What have you been doing over the last days, weeks, months, and years that is driving your wife crazy and she's begged and pleaded, asked you not to do it, but you just don't care enough?" Because basically, if a man treated his boss at work the way he dares to treat his wife, he would be fired. It just drives me nuts. You just drive me nuts. And I'm not a feminist. I love men. I love sex. But I am tired of men getting the excuse. And basically the flip side of the boohoo car moment is I had a husband— divorced now— I had a husband—

Oh, so you fired him?

Oh yeah. Well, let me tell you why.

Good job. I recommend that, by the way.

Really?

Yeah, it all depends on who I'm— Sandra, I know you're— Sandra, sorry. I know, you know, you and I get to have a limited conversation from one side, and, and I, I am an enabler, but I want to enable whoever I'm talking to. So if I'm talking to men, I'm going to enable them to understand women and get along with them better. If I'm talking to women, I'm going to enable them to get along with men. But never ever would I tell a woman to lay down and put up with being mistreated, ever. In fact, I am one of the biggest proponents of telling women, "That guy's no good for you. Let him go." And they're like, "Really? Won't it work out?" No. He's not it. Say goodbye. You deserve better.

Well, that makes me feel a lot better towards you because I had not heard these comments. And granted, I do not listen every time that you're on, but it just, uh—

It's just something Dennis and I haven't talked about. If he wanted to ask me, you know, when should a woman kick a man out, I could give him a really long list.

We should do that, by the way.

Be happy to do it.

And by the way, I'm so glad you called, Sandra, and you were— Sandra, by the way, embodied exactly my theory that everyone can be eloquent.

Yes, it's beautiful.

I do believe— when they're passionate. People, when you are passionate about a subject, you get eloquent. She was eloquent.

Yes.

Sandra, let me say, one of the reasons that I do defend divorce as awful and hellish as it can be, is that I don't believe that either a man or a woman should have tenure, should believe that no matter how they treat you, they can't be fired.

Yeah.

And that when you said, did you fire him? That's exactly how it is. I think that I have to earn my wife's love every day and she has to earn mine every day, or at least commitment. I mean, love is love, so look, put that aside. You, you earn just like my— I, I have to do a good job every day on radio just to stay hired. Yeah, you got to do a good job every day as a spouse to stay hired. If you can't be fired, why will you do a good job? That's human nature. You're listening to The Dennis Prager Show, The Male-Female Hour.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

Hello, hello, hello. I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello.

I, I have to tell you, many hours I feel this, but, and, and certainly whenever Allison is on, and frequently the male-female hour anyway, I have a board of such great and important calls. Let me, uh, let me read some of the descriptions. Don't hang up, folks, because then I don't see what you you called in on. Alrighty, let's see here. Mike in Sacramento: I'm doing it right! Three exclamation points. My upstart business is not well and I have been helping my wife whose career is successful. I keep the decks clear for her. Ryan in Costa Mesa, California: Guys have to have sex. What about guys who were waiting to be married? What did they do? Okay, that, that's, that's a different question entirely and one we should talk about. Ryan, thank you for that. Ken in Brooklyn, New York: Am I wrong to keep insisting to myself and my ex-wife that she should have stayed in the marriage? Women leave when they think they won't get any more out of it. Any comment on that quickly, or do we need to hear more?

Women leave when they've given up on getting what they need from a man, but unfortunately they usually haven't told him what they needed, so he didn't have a chance in the first place. But they— one of the things that's always surprising to men is when women leave, they move on so quickly, and he's in pain, but he doesn't know she's been mourning for years. Everything she gave up on getting from him, she mourned the demise of their relationship.

Rancho Palos Verdes, California. Sheila: Wise person told me all you have to do to get along with a man is need them Feed them and do them. And I might add, Sheila's 72. God bless her.

That's great. Add admiration and I'd probably say she's got it.

Austin in Redondo Beach, 24 years old. What do men do to drive women away? Says he knows Allison and her sister.

Yes.

You know Austin?

I do.

Okay.

Should I answer that question?

Yeah.

Well, for young men, and this isn't particular to Austin, but, but I have a 21-year-old son as well. Women think if you take the job, you know how to do it. So if you agree to be my boyfriend, you have the boyfriend manual and you're going to behave like a good boyfriend. If you agree to be my husband, you have the husband manual And if you stand in front of the minister and you say the magic words, "I do," they'll sprinkle you with fairy dust and you'll turn into a good husband. And it just doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. He's the same guy he was the day before. He hasn't occurred.

To be continued. Allison Armstrong's work. Again, just go to DennisPrager.com. You'll see where to go. Thank you, Allison. You're really a font of wisdom. This has been the Male-Female Hour on the Dennis Prager Show. Bye, everybody.

This has been Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.