Timeless Wisdom: Male/Female Hour - Children Plus or Minus
In this episode of Dennis Prager’s Timeless Wisdom, the host opens with a promotional pitch for his book If There Is No God, arguing that emotion‑based morality leads to societal chaos and that objective truth is essential. He then launches the Male/Female Hour, asking callers to evaluate whether their children have been a net asset, a net deficit, or neutral to the happiness of their marriage. Prager frames the discussion with a metaphor that every life choice has a "price"—the cost of marriage, children, staying single, etc.—and critiques modern anti‑wisdom in education. Callers share varied experiences: Moshe says children keep his marriage together; a couple with autistic children describe how caring for them strengthens their faith; another caller recounts a marriage ruined by a spouse’s postpartum depression; others report children as a source of joy, a source of strain, or a mixed impact. Prager highlights that many callers initially report assets because detriment is painful to admit, and he observes that children can both enrich and burden a marriage, sometimes acting as the glue that prevents divorce. Interspersed throughout are promotional segments for PragerU, his Rational Bibles, gold and silver investment ads, and a brief anecdote about his grandson’s desire for a fishing boat. The episode concludes with Prager summarizing the calls, emphasizing that happiness should not be held hostage by children, and teasing future discussions with childless couples.
Chapters
Your dog and a stranger are drowning. You can only save one. Who do you choose? Dennis Prager says your answer reveals everything about how you define right and wrong. In his new book, If There Is No God, Prager exposes the danger of emotion-based morality and why without objective truth, society descends into chaos. This isn't a religious book. It's a rational case for moral clarity in a confused age. If There Is No God from Dennis Prager. Order now at pragerstore.com. Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to dennisprager.com.
Yes, yes, yes.
Go on, go on. I can't tell you how much I would like to interview Dr. Fussbend. We all have dreams. That's one of mine. But alas, Dr. Fussbend is a movie character, and one cannot interview movie characters unless one writes the character's lines, in which case you're interviewing yourself. Hi everybody, the Male-Female Hour, every Wednesday. Nice to have it back. I think the last two Wednesdays— is that right? Last two Wednesdays I had substitute hosts. I had, I had those days off for intense reasons. I mean, not bad reasons, just usually involving cross-country travel. Anyway, I, I do take days off periodically. All right, this is the Male-Female Hour, and it is the most honest talk about men and women and their relationships, I think, in American media. It is honest for many reasons. One, I have very little difficulty in talking about very sensitive issues. Number two, I'm not a man fan or a woman fan. I'm a good person fan. And the world has been made that for every male jerk, there's a female jerk, and vice versa. I think the numbers are quite equivalent. I've never— I never for a minute bought the nonsense that one sex was superior to the other. They are superior in certain ways, innately, in many, in, in many regards, or in some regards. That, by the way, would be an interesting subject for a male-female hour. Are there ways in which men are more suited for things, and, and likewise women? But that's not today's subject. Today's subject is a very difficult one, emotionally difficult. It's not intellectually difficult, but I will learn a great deal from your calls. As is very often the case, and that is— here is the question: in your life, I want you to— I don't want you to discuss this in the macro, I want you to discuss this in the micro, specifically you. Have your children been a net asset to the happiness of your marriage, a net deficit, or no effect negatively or positively? I'm not talking about your life, I'm talking about your marriage. Have your children made your marriage better? Have your children made your marriage more difficult? Have your children had no effect in either direction, or equally in both? That's what I am curious to hear from you. 1-800-PRAAGER-776, 877-243-7776. I'll give you one example while you're calling in. I will give you an example of a challenge that a child presents to a couple immediately upon birth. I would love to see data on sexual frequency post the child and pre the child. And I say I would like to see the data implies that I think the data would suggest that it was less frequent. Now, there are many ways to have joy in life. Sexual joy is certainly one of them, but there is also— there are other joys. And in this instance, the joy of the arrival of the child, if it does in fact decrease the frequency, might well be a worthy compensation. Somebody said to you in advance, you will go from X times a month, or a week, or a day, uh, to Y times, or X minus Y times, but you will have a child as a, as something in your life, most people would sign on. By the way, not to, not everybody does this happen, the, the diminished frequency as a result of the child's arrival, but it usually does. I have a line about that: that which was created by passion then diminishes it. But there are competing goods in life, and mature people become aware of that. Another, another area is you— as soon as the child arrives, your freedoms are curtailed. You can't travel as much, you can't dine out as much. You can't sleep as much. On the other hand, you have a child, you have a family. You are doing one of the most profound things a human can do in life—raise a human being. Is that worth fewer dinners, less sleep, I think it is. However, sometimes children— not at the beginning, but when they grow up— and they, they could be a source of pain in a marriage. And I don't only mean the ones that are difficult, just the difficult child for whatever reason. or a child that gets hooked on drugs or alcohol or some other addiction. I'm talking about families with a child with special needs. That could, that could have an effect on your, on your marriage, especially if it's accompanied by financial challenges. On the other hand, which is the whole point of this hour— there are many hands here— on the other hand, a child can be a source of extraordinary fulfillment and joy in one's life. One should not look to children to be the source of joy in their lives. That is too big a burden to place on a child. But there's no denying that that is a possibility. One of the problems of our age is that it has become the age of anti-wisdom. There's no wisdom taught. Our schools are devoid of wisdom. Most of the time it's fools teaching children. It's very sad for me to say. There's no joy in it. And one of the non-wisdom items of life, subjects of life, is that everything has a price, and that if you ask what is the price, you will lead a much wiser and therefore happier life. The only time we ever ask what is the price is when we're buying something, right? How much is it? We should ask how much is it about everything. What is the price paid for— and then fill in whatever it is. What is the price paid for getting married? I don't mean financial price, although that might be included. What is the price paid for staying single? What is the price paid for having a child? What is the price paid for not having a child? What is the price paid for having only one child? What is the price paid for having 5 children? You have to ask this in life. Nothing is free, but that's a That's an Ultimate Issues or Happiness Hour subject. I'll take your calls on the Male-Female Hour in a moment. The Dennis Prager Show.
This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom. I was talking to—
who's it? I forgot who I was talking to. Somebody about their child going to college. Oh yes, I was talking to my grandson who's 11, and, uh, we have a Zoom call each week and we study Bible, or we talk about great issues of life and wherever it leads. My, uh, my producer is going to get a kick out of this. So I decided to, to this past week to talk about some of the things about happiness that I talk about, like even if you're in a bad mood, you shouldn't act it. It's a very good thing to tell children that they don't act on their moods. And then I talked about one chapter from my happiness book, The Missing Tile Syndrome, that people focus on what they're missing more than what they have, and it's a source of unhappiness. In fact, it's the favorite chapter in the book. And I asked him, so what, do you have a missing tile? Is there something you're missing and you think about? Are you ready? I almost fell. I literally almost fell off my chair. In total seriousness, he goes, Poppy, there is. I'm missing a fishing boat. Is that awesome? A fishing boat. I love— what? Him? Oh, he loves fishing. That's the whole point. He's crazy about it. He lives on the ocean in Florida, right near the ocean. So why am I telling you this? So I said, so, you know, are you saving up for one? He said, well, a friend and I— and I guess I probably said me and a friend— me and a friend are working on saving up for a fishing boat. Okay. And then I said, really? Great. But he said there's a problem. His parents want him to put all his money towards college. You know, what grade is he in now? 7th grade? Yeah, I guess 7th grade. Right at 11 years. 6th grade, 7th grade. So then I said to him, I actually think a fishing boat is more valuable than a college education. How many grandparents tell their grandchildren that? And I mean it, that's the amazing— that's why I'm laughing. It wasn't a joke. Absolutely, there's no question he would get more out of a fishing boat than out of college. And so I told him, watch the 500 videos at PragerU. And you will learn far more than you learn at college. Now, you won't learn botany or physics or math, that's correct, but if you're not going into STEM—science, technology, engineering, or math—you will learn more at PragerU. And I mean that literally. It's not even a competition. Bill Bennett's son said years ago to me, and there were only like 100 videos up. He learned more from PragerU than at Princeton, where he attended. So anyway, it is fundraising month for PragerU, so it's apt that I mention that to you. Help us teach what should be taught. The subject of the male-female hour, which we are currently in, is where your children an asset to your marriage? Not to your— I'm not talking about your life generally, specifically your marriage. Did it hurt your marriage, your child or children, or have neither effect? So all the lines I see, people are saying that their child was an asset. I have a theory. People for whom the child has not been an asset or a child aren't going to call. That's exactly right. That's my theory, because, uh, my experience in with knowing people and people open up to me, in a lot of cases a child has been a detriment. I know one family well where 3 children were terrific Or is it— yeah, 3 children were just terrific and 1 was a constant source of angst. And 1 of those 3 children I know really well told me that it definitely had a bad effect on the parents' marriage. I know of another marriage where a child has severe mental issues, is institutionalized, and it has definitely affected their marriage. So I don't think people want to call in and say it because it's too, too painful. This is not an argument against children. This is only an observation that, to a large extent, an extent that I am willing I've always been willing to acknowledge, but many people find very problematic, and it is problematic, is the role of luck in life. You have a child who was born with serious mental issues or serious physical issues. It's, uh, you love them and Of course, but it is, uh, it is the way it works. It's fate. It's a humbling fact of life. All right, let's go to Moshe in Chicago, the famous Moshe of Chicago. Hello.
Yeah, it's such a profound question, Dennis. You know, it's worthy of a Prager Drash at the Sportsman's Lodge. You know, it's really Really a great, a great question. And I'm thinking, you know, in, in my case, it actually is what keeps the marriage going because the marriage is not great, to be honest with you. And so in this sense, uh, you know, it builds the character of us to stay in it. That's how terrific the kids are, and that's where the bond needs to be kept. And, uh, you know, so wisdom, character comes from our children and our love for them. Now, should we stay in it? I, I think we have to because we're both products of divorce and we know what it does. We disagree with the psychiatrist that say, you know, it's better off for the kids to not be with them, to not be together.
How old are your kids?
They're both, uh, just beginning high school. Right.
So this is a— thank you, Moshe. I can't thank you enough because you raised another fascinating issue. Not only on occasion do they hurt a marriage, but on occasion not only do they help the marriage, but they keep the marriage together. I presume that Moshe and his wife would separate and divorce if they didn't have children. How interesting. It's another factor to, to throw in which I hadn't thought of. So of course The question for Moshe and his wife is, when the kids leave, will they stay together? We'll be back. You should see the responses to my work. It's like my Bible work, except it's another ancient text, not biblical, on the oldest holiday in the world, Passover. And the Seder, well known to non-Jews as well, the opening night's extremely significant meal of the retelling of the Exodus. It's all there, the rational Passover Haggadah. And it's— I get these letters from people. For the first time they see reason and its power in religious observance. So I strongly commend it to you. Rational Passover Haggadah, it's called. And now back to the male-female hour. A person who stepped into the room was talking to me about the subject. I told you this question is a very tough one for people to address. Was your child, or your— were your children an asset or a detriment to your marriage? Most people calling in, it's on the asset side because it's too difficult to call in on the other, I think. Now, the last call, Moshe in Chicago, brought in a new item that I hadn't thought about. So obvious, I should have thought about it, but I didn't. That not only can they be an asset, they may be the glue that keeps your marriage together. That was the case in his, in his call. On the other hand, a man who works at the station where I am and talked to me during the break His ex-wife had such severe postpartum depression after the birth of their, their, their daughter that she ultimately used drugs and alcohol to address her issues, and they ultimately divorced. That's, uh, it's nothing the child even did. Wasn't like a tough child or a child with severe problems. So they both added. I just— if Moshe is still on though, I have a question for him. Moshe, are you still there? Yes, yes, Dennis. So are you thinking of divorcing once the children are in college, or you, you're planning never to divorce?
It was such a difficult question. I, um, you know, my children have, um, have blessed me with such character to stay in this. Again, the net asset of having them. You know, I used to live in Los Angeles for most of my life, and I was so self-absorbed. But having kids and being married has made me— has given me so much character to stay with things. And, you know, I've been my best person because of that. And I know, so I feel like I owe it to stay.
Owe it to whom? Owe it to whom?
I don't know. To myself and also to, you know, in the general sense, maybe to Hashem in a way, but I just feel like there's a general sense of I've given too much to being self-absorbed to just quit on it.
Well, you're certainly not just a quitter. Thank you. Hashem is a traditional Jewish way of referring to God, for those who didn't know what he was saying. So he feels he owes it to God as well. That's another show we need to do about why people stay in troubled marriages.
This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Gold and silver recently soared to record highs, then pulled back. So are precious metals still a good buy? Many Wall Street experts predict higher prices ahead. Why? Because we still have trillions in national debt, a declining dollar, and inflation that keeps shrinking our savings. Even with corrections along the way, gold remains a historical hedge for wealth protection. That's why Morgan Stanley's chief investment officer ditched the 60/40 stock and bonds portfolio and recommended up to 20% in precious metals. They're getting educated, and you should too. Call Lear Capital at 800-992-2255 for your free gold investment kit and learn how you could qualify for up to $20,000 in bonus gold. Lear Capital has over $3 billion in transactions and thousands of 5-star reviews. Call 800-992-2255. That's 800-992-2255. 855 or visit learalex.com.
Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Okay, let's, uh, Columbus, Ohio, and Hope. That's a great name. Hi, Hope. How are you? Really well, thank you. Awesome.
I have I have 3 children, age 27, 23, and 21, and my 2 younger have special needs.
In a nutshell, what does that mean? Autism. Autism, and how severe?
One more severe than the other. Both are in college, but in like work development programs. So not your typical college, they're at college.
All right, but that means they're pretty functioning.
Um, one lives there. The other one will never live on it independently.
All right, hold on with me. I'm very curious to know how they have affected your marriage. Hi everybody, male-female hour. Tough subject for some people who've been challenged by their child or children. The question is, have your children or has your child been an asset or a detriment to your marriage? Not talking about your whole life, just the marriage. So going back to Columbus, where is my Columbus? Hope in Columbus, 2 of her 3 children have special needs. They're autistic in varying degrees of autism. Since I have an autistic stepson who lives with my wife and me, so I'm quite acquainted with this issue, the spectrum of autism is so vast from truly incapable of functioning to quite capable of functioning. Yours are obviously toward the capable of functioning end of that scale, correct? Yes. Right. So my only question is, is their temperament upbeat or down?
It is very upbeat. It was not always that way, but puberty sucked, quite frankly. Um, but as we got through puberty and as they're now adults, I do believe we have a very happy household, and I think that that really impacts it. We're generally positive people. We're very faithful people. We have a very large network of other families that have special needs that we socialize them with. But for my husband and I in the marriage, we've made— we are very purposeful with our time. We make sure we make time for each other, which is very hard to do with special needs kids because You know, we just have to get a babysitter in and just do it. We have to just make that time, and it has definitely strengthened our faith.
Why has it strengthened your faith?
I think we were always churchgoers, but I think it has just— it definitely has us talking more about it. We pray together. We didn't pray together in our early marriage. We were both Christians, but we didn't actively pray together. We actively pray together. We actively talk about our faith and our doubts and our, you know, everything. It's just really opened us up.
Well, you sound like a wonderful couple.
It's been a lot of work. It's not easy. Um, we coach a lot of younger families.
Do they live with you? Do these older ones live with you?
Um, my— yeah, I just have one, one that's living with us and will never leave us. Um, in fact, we moved out of suburbia to a farm to help him learn how to care for himself, how to raise chickens, how to garden, how to do this. So we're really actively working with him. It's exhausting, but it's, it's really kept us very, very strong as a couple.
Well, God bless you. God, that's why I never get tired of doing the show. Do you know I figured out something, folks? Good. I have no idea how you'll react when you hear this, but I, I think it's indisputable. There are certainly people who have talked to more people in their lives than I have. But I don't think there's anybody in the world who has talked with more people than I have. Does that sound right? 40 years of radio talking to people. To— I mean with, not to. To— there are people who've talked to more people than I, but not with. So it's an extraordinary asset in my thinking. Uh, okay, let's see. Uh, Seattle, Washington, Amy Sue. Hello.
Good morning. How you doing? Thank you. Well, well, in my marriage, um, it was a detriment to have a child, and it took me a while to realize that with my husband. He didn't— he had two other brothers and they were three years apart. I thought, well, maybe he just wasn't exposed to, uh, girls, children, you know. And his parents were— he went to a parochial school. His parents were Lutheran, very strict, and into music quite a bit.
They were both Wait, I'm a little confused. What does having a troubled child have to do with the brothers?
No, no, uh, my— our daughter was not a troubled child. It was having her was a detriment to our marriage because I didn't know my husband didn't feel comfortable with children and he resented.
I see. Okay, so again, why did— well, why did you raise the brothers issue?
Well, because as I reflected, I thought, well, he, he has two other brothers. They're all three years apart, so he hasn't really been exposed to girls, you know. Yeah, right.
But then the number of men not exposed to girls who have no issue with the daughter is much greater. You, you think if you had a son it would have worked out? No, no. Okay, so, okay, so all of that stuff isn't really relevant. Okay. Okay, so he didn't know how to handle being a parent.
Right, and he didn't understand sacrifice. He was jealous of her.
So this is okay. So this is a new, a new, uh, uh, piece of data in our puzzle. My God, I didn't even think of that. That would, that would be a detriment to a marriage if your spouse, uh, is, uh finds being a parent very troubling. I'm sorry for laughing. It's a dark— it's the dark humor part of me. And just laughing at the human condition. The almost infinite possibilities for misery. Right? Who would have thought of that? Yeah, our child was a detriment because my husband didn't want to be a parent. Oh my God. So I have— you have to work on happiness. That's why my, my book on happiness has the appropriate title, Happiness Is a Serious Problem.
The Dennis Prager Show. This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Gold and silver recently soared to record highs, then pulled back. So are precious metals still a good buy? Many Wall Street experts predict higher prices ahead. Why? Because we still have trillions in national debt, a declining dollar, and inflation that keeps shrinking our savings. Even with corrections along the way, gold remains a historical hedge for wealth protection. That's why Morgan Stanley's chief investment officer ditched the 60/40 stock and bonds portfolio and recommended up to 20% in precious metals. They're getting educated, and you should too. Call Lear Capital at 800-992-2255 for your free gold investment kit and learn how you could qualify for up to $20,000 in bonus gold. Lear Capital has over $3 billion in transactions and thousands of 5-star reviews. Call 800-992-2255. That's 800-992-2255. 5 or visit learalex.com.
Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Final segment of the Male-Female Hour. It's an intense one, emotionally intense. Have your children or child been an asset or detriment to your marriage? The, the calls started with all asset, now half detriment. As the show went on and I welcomed more on the dark side, I got more of them. Amy in Phoenix, please don't hang up, folks. I would like to summarize your calls. If you hang up, I don't see what you have to say. Phoenix, Arizona. Amy, I I have special needs kids, twice divorced, kids have been a detriment. Yeah, I, my heart goes out to you, that's all I can say. Well, Steve in Wisconsin, our children are an asset but I mishandled them and caused my wife to divorce me. God, that's another one. Differences with your spouse about the children. Sharon in Dallas, an asset to her marriage. Bless you, Sharon. Kathleen in Denver, a huge asset, 6 kids. I wonder if more kids— more kids obviously raise the chance, the odds of detriment, but I think that they raise the odds the other direction too. That's worthy of a, of a, uh, of a male-female hour. A lot of kids and its effect on a marriage. San Francisco, Mary, my child is a detriment to our marriage. I'm sorry. And, uh, let's see. Don in Dallas, definitely an asset to the marriage. And Sue in Coronado, California, two kids, one an asset and one a detriment. So allow me to make this appeal to you if you have a difficult child, often through no fault of their own, sometimes quite through their fault. To the extent that you can, and you can to a very large extent if you choose to, you have to decide to be happy and not be held hostage by your child. Your happiness should not be held hostage by your child. I have argued this for years on my show. Great call from a woman I don't know, 10 years ago, more. I didn't break my child, I can't fix her. It's a brilliant, brilliant statement. It's not, it's not fair, to say the least, to let them do that to you. Anyway, I'm going to revisit the topic with couples who didn't have a child, what they think about their marriage in light of that. It's been the Male-Female Hour. We continue on the Dennis Prager Show.
This has been Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.
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