Timeless Wisdom: What Jews and Christians Can Learn From Each Other (Part 2)

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Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to DennisPrager.com.

This is one of my favorite topics. I don't speak on it all the time because not everybody asks for it. But I, as I said on the radio promos, I really am one of the handful of people, I think, who can do the topic justice on a number of accounts. One, I am deeply involved with both Christians and Jews and have been for decades, and that's not true for many people. Secondly, I like them both. And I have tremendous respect for both. And there is a very interesting statement that I learned from Judaism as a child in Orthodox world. I haven't been Orthodox since my teenage years, but I thank God that I was raised in tremendous immersion in the tradition and learned the sources as well as I did. But there's a very famous statement in Hebrew. I'll just give it in English. And that is, wisdom of the nations you should believe, the Torah of the nations don't believe. In other words, it's a Jew should learn from every other group. You don't take their theology, because if you take their theology, you cease being Jewish. But beyond the theology, You have to learn from everybody. The idea that only my group, or only my religious group, has wisdom is absurd. That's the antithesis of wisdom. And I realized this very early on. This program that I was moderator of, it— I don't know when and if God intervenes in anybody's life, to be honest. I just don't know. I'm agnostic on that issue. I'm not agnostic on God, I'm agnostic on the issue. Does he intervene, or at least can I identify when God does? But if he did, he got me this job: to be the moderator of a priest, minister, rabbi, different ones each week for 10 years. I got much better than a PhD in religion, and specifically Christianity. I got a living doctorate. I was with Christian, Catholic, and Protestant clergy every single week. The best people answering the toughest questions. It got to the point, by the way, I'll never forget, this is when I knew I was proud of where I had gotten. Somebody started giving the Protestant minister and the Catholic priest a hard time, and at a given point the priest slipped me a note "Could you handle this, please?" And so here was this guy from yeshiva defending the Christians against somebody, I don't remember what he was, probably an ex-Catholic. They gave the Christians the hardest times. I learned a lot about that too. The Jews didn't give Christians a hard time, it was the ex-Catholics that gave the— And then, by the way, it worked in both directions. 'Cause I'll never forget one time somebody called up and started— a non-Jewish caller called up and gave the rabbi a really hard time on Jewish chosenness. Now it was the wrong rabbi to give a hard time to 'cause the rabbi wasn't comfortable with Jewish chosenness either. And I could tell that. You know, this is not something on that rabbi's radar. And he kept yelling, "Oh, it's chauvinism, Jewish elitism, Jewish chauvinism, and it has overtones of racism." Finally, the Catholic priest, Father Michael Nocita, said, "Dennis, may I respond to the caller?" I said, "Please, go right ahead." And so he said, "Caller, this is Father Michael Nocita, the Roman Catholic priest. God chose the Jews.

Get a life." And that answered that. Yeah, it really answered that.

The guy, I think he thanked him. Oh, now I understand. So I had this 10-year experience of Jews defending Christians, Christians defending Jews, both criticizing of everything. And of course, I always add, and I have to add it tonight as well, all of this is only possible in America. That should never be forgotten. The comfort that Jews and Christians have only exists in the United States of America. And it is a blessing beyond words that we have this, that nobody thinks twice that half this audience is Christian in a synagogue or half this audience would be Jewish in a church and having the same thing and getting together for each other's occasions. And respecting each other, and loving each other, and enjoying each other. And the fact that you would want to hear this speech tonight. You know, believe me, and this is not a knock on my rabbis at yeshiva, but it's just a fact. I never heard a speech from my rabbis at yeshiva, "What Jews can learn from Christians." I promise you, this was not one of the subjects in the yeshiva curriculum. So boys today, what we can learn from the Christians?

Nothing!

And it wouldn't have been bigotry, just he was certain because he would— you see, there's another statement that, you know, and there were, by the way, there were echoes of this in every religion because there's a statement in the Talmud, you know, "Hafokh babahafokh v'lekhulava," just go through it, go through it, everything is in it, meaning the Torah and the Talmud. So why do we need anybody else? What are we going to learn? What are we going to learn? You know, this sort of gesture. But I was wrong. There's a massive amount to learn and improve on, in my opinion. So I'm going to challenge both groups tonight, as I challenge myself, because these are things that I have incorporated into my own life. And I try to make it numerically even. There are 5 things. Is there water, by the way? Oh, there is, great. There are 5 things I have for each group. They're not necessarily symmetrical, but 5 things each. And not in order of importance, simply in the order that I made the notes. I think I'll start with what Jews can learn from Christians. And again, please understand this is This is, to use a phrase from each religion, this is not the gospel truth, and this is not Torah from Sinai, okay? So let me make that clear. This is one man's opinion. You are totally free to reject it, but obviously I've earned enough of your respect that you took your precious time and came tonight, so here goes. I think that an area that I have a I've come to really appreciate in Christianity, and one that I think Jews can learn from, is the way Christians pray. I have— see, the Christians here don't know, but Jewish prayer is, at the synagogue, is very long. And the more traditional, the longer it is, until such time as some of us felt antisemitic. It's a terrible thing to admit, it really is. But at a given point after 3 hours, you start hating the people around you. At least for me. Now let me make something clear, this may well be idiosyncratic, I mean it. I have one sibling, an older brother, he loves Jewish prayer. He gets there on time, he's the only one who does, but He is there on time, does the entire Orthodox prayers, loves it, often leads it. He's a physician, a major physician at Columbia University, he's a professor of medicine, loves it. My older son loves it. And so I'm in the middle, I'm sandwiched between two prayer lovers, and for me it's just too much too long. And I think though I represented more people than my son and my father. And my brother, and my father who also loves it. And my proof is that at Orthodox Jewish camp in the summer, we would pray outdoors on benches. And it went 3, 3.5 hours in the sun. It's not fair. It was wrong. It was morally wrong. All right, I got that off my chest. Now here's the thing though. If you would look at us, you would see kids opening and closing the prayer book, going like this, and mumbling. And you would have wondered whether Jewish or not Jewish, what are they doing? And here is the answer: we were playing prayer book baseball. Prayer book in Hebrew is siddur, or siddur. It was called siddur baseball. So after about an hour, we had it. And what we would do is we had a simple game. You opened up the prayer book, and it was all in Hebrew, of course. If the first letter was Aleph, the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet, it was a single. Second letter, Bet, double. Third letter, Gimel, triple. And Dalet, the fourth letter, was a home run. So you'd see kids going, "Man on first, one out." "Second and third, two out." "Single!" Single! That's what we did in synagogue. Because it was so long. Now this is something you know I could not have made up, correct? It had to have happened. Now then I finally, you know, I got older, I became an adult, I would go to church service, the thing was over in an hour. Can you believe it? That's it? That's it? And that was it. And by the way, a lot of Christians think that's too long. I know, I can't believe it. You know, the pastor spoke for 15 minutes. 15 minutes! The rabbi was getting started after 15 minutes. It would be 45 minutes, plus all the prayers and the repeat of the prayers that the cantor would do. And so there's a more important element than the brevity and longness of it, or length of it, and that is the spontaneity of it. This again I obviously experienced as an adult with Christians at meals, and I'll never forget I spoke to about 2,000 Catholic educators at one of their national conferences at the Anaheim Convention Center, and they invited me, and before Before I spoke, they made an invocation, and the woman, to total silence of 2,000 people, again something I'm not used to, 2,000 Jews being silent, maybe at Sinai, maybe it occurred at Sinai, I don't know. And she said, among other things, God, please open our hearts to hear what our guest speaker, Mr. Dennis Prager, has to say. And I remember thinking, wow, I can't believe this. And I got up and I even said, you know, I've spoken about 1,000 times to Jewish groups. They've never prayed to hear me. It was so nice. It was just worth coming for that prayer. But the spontaneity of Christians' prayers is very moving to me. And to the point where I am often at a where I am at a Christian's home, a pastor's home, or just lay Christians, I would be at, Dennis, would you lead us in the opening invocation? And I am completely comfortable in doing so, and I love it actually, where I open up with some thought and my heartfelt statement about how fortunate we are to be with such friends, in the company of God himself, and it's very beautiful. Jewish prayer is all written out for you. Now that has its own advantages in that if you're not ready with something spontaneous, it is there, but the truth is, for me personally, the spontaneity wins. There is just so often I could say the same words over and over and over and they do start losing their impact. Now my Orthodox friends tell me I'm wrong, that the whole point is that it's like a mantra and it has its own power, and I'm sure to some it does. I'm speaking as an individual, I admit it. But there is a power to this, and I think that Jews, without dropping all of their prayer book, but condensing it and adding the spontaneity that before a meal to just say something about thanking God for the moment that they are in, I think it would add something to Jewish life.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

Now, Now, in this case there is a symmetry, because the flip side is I think that what Jews can teach Christians, or what Christians can learn from Jews, is ritual. And especially Protestants, which is almost ritual-free. Catholicism has still some ritual, but ritual I think there's too much ritual in Jewish life, but ritual is important. And this— and by the way, Christians love Jewish ritual, which is one of the reasons Christians love to attend a Jewish Seder or a Jewish Shabbat, Sabbath, is precisely because these Jews have all these rituals and we don't. And there is something powerful because ritual A ritual is the physical expression of a value. That's my definition of the word ritual. We have secular rituals. We shake hands when we meet. What? We don't have to shake hands. It's a useless ritual. But it is— if somebody refused to shake your hand, you'd feel there was something suspicious here, right? Shaking hands represents a lot. Pleasure to meet you, I reach out to you, there was nothing to fear from me. I mean, there was so much in a handshake. So the idea of ritual is very powerful in life, and I like it. We have a ritual of singing the national anthem before ballgames. I think America would be far poorer if we did not have that ritual. So secular life understands it too, and I don't like when we get rid of them. American rituals. I don't like that kids don't say the Pledge of Allegiance in school. That's an American ritual. These things, or the way in which we fold the American flag, that's a ritual. But so ritual has a very powerful thing to it. The notion that religion doesn't need ritual is, I think, erroneous. It does. Everything needs ritual. Secular life does and religious life does. And one ritual that has, if I can put it under the label of ritual, that has been lost to modern Christianity is the Sabbath. Now, this is a very interesting— tell Christians what they're lacking. But yes, I think it's a big lapse. That Sunday, I'll never forget when I had the Christian and Jewish clergy on this program, I would periodically, I would ask the priest and the minister, if I visited you at home after church on Sunday, how would I know it's Sunday and not another day of the week? And it was fascinating because they felt very awkward in answering it. Because they'd be sitting watching a football game or a baseball game, right? Or gone shopping to the mall, there was a good sale on. And so I often got the answer which I honestly did not buy, I must tell you. And that was, Dennis, it doesn't have to be in our actions The Sabbath was in our heart. Okay. I have more to say about heart versus action later, but let me say I didn't buy it. So the Sabbath is in your heart while you are at a baseball game. I see. I understand. I'm not impressed. Okay? Now, if you want to say, look, the truth is we're not obligated to anything beyond churchgoing, going, fine, I respect that. But don't tell me while you're at a Giants game or a Dodgers game that the Sabbath is in your heart that day. At least for me, as a behaviorist, I just, I can't buy it. If you believe it and sincerely believe it, then that's fine. I don't buy it. So we Jews can really learn a lot about prayer from Christians, and I think Christians can learn a lot about ritual from Jews, and it would start, in my opinion, with the reaffirmation of the Sabbath. Now technically, of course, Sunday is not the Sabbath. It's the day of the resurrection, so it's not exactly the Sabbath, and that's another reason that Christians can say, well, we're not obligated. Whatever you want to call Sunday. If it's like every other day of the week, something is lost societally and Christianly. Okay, number 2. Start again with what Christians can teach Jews or Jews can learn from Christians. Religious Christians, in other words, by religious I mean serious believing Christians, Catholic, Protestant, and other, have mastered something that they don't even know how rare it is. I do. And that is being deeply religious and living fully in the world. This is unique, almost unique, not unique, almost unique to Christianity. Extremely religious, deeply believing Jews tend to lead a more hermetically sealed life because that is what in fact Judaism countenanced, where you eat in certain places, you eat off certain dishes, you relate to one another far more than to the the world. I mean, that's just a fact, criticism or not, it's just a fact. Same with Muslims. There is, uh, the, the comfort zone is in a Muslim world if you are fully observant and immersed as a Muslim. But religious Christians, uh, have mastered something that I respect immensely. The ability to stay deeply religious and immersed in the world. Deeply religious and send their kids to a regular school and not worry, or maybe they do worry, but still do it, that their kids will retain their Christian faith immersed in a secular world. Whereas you don't have that nearly as much in Jewish life where understandably, and I'm a big supporter of Jewish day schools, but Jews who are religious will send their kids to Jewish schools deeply fearing that if they went to a public school or a private secular school they will lose their Judaism. But Christians will have the faith, and I don't just mean theological faith, rational faith, that their kids can be immersed in the outer world, they can be immersed and still retain a very strong Christian faith. That's very rare and very admirable, and that's something more than any other one thing, it is something I wish Jewish life could adopt, because the thing that was most troubling to me in my Orthodox upbringing was the insularity. I wanted to be immersed in the world as a religious Jew. Indeed, that's what I ended up doing, even though I'm not specifically Orthodox, but deeply religious. On the other side, and it's not necessarily symmetric, but a second thing now, we're on line number 2, that Jews can teach Christians. Is to take care of fellow Christians. Jews take care of fellow Jews. This, Jews are good at this, really good at this, and I'll give you the best example and show you an interesting contradistinction. I became involved in public life and in public Jewish life at the age of 21 after I had been sent sent to the Soviet Union because of my knowledge of Russian and Hebrew. I was sent to the Soviet Union to meet with dissident Jews, to bring in Jewish items and bring out Jewish names of those who wanted to leave the Soviet Union. And it was a harrowing 4 weeks, and I became very involved in the student struggle for Soviet Jewry, the leading organization for Soviet Jewry. I became the national spokesman spoke for years. And every synagogue in America, 99%, had a sign in the '60s and '70s and '80s, Save Soviet Jewry. Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, Reconstructionist, Hasidic, Neurotic, whatever the denomination, it had a sign, Save Soviet Jewry. Soviet Jewry. Now, as a student of the Soviet Union, you should know— I'll tell you something that probably neither the Jews nor the Christians here know. There was a group more oppressed than the Jews of the Soviet Union. The Christians of the Soviet Union. This is probably a revelation to nearly all of you, Christian or Jewish. Jews were persecuted, but very rarely sent sent to prison for being Jewish. Very rarely. They were often fired from jobs, they were not hired, it was a lousy thing, they were ostracized, they experienced anti-Semitic taunts, but Christians were sent to terrible conditions and sometimes tortured for preaching Christ, for smuggling in a New Testament. I don't remember a church in America that had a sign, "Save Soviet Christians." Now why is that? Now notice, this is very important, there's no better or worse in any of this list. There's what you can learn from, and I feel free enough to speak this way. But I did wonder, I knew how bad it was for Soviet Christians, Christians. That was my field of study, was the Soviet Union. And I couldn't— I didn't understand this. Where are the rallies for Soviet Christians? Why aren't the churches having at least a sign up, save Soviet Christians? By the way, to this day I don't know the answer. It's a— it's a— it's— I still ask the question, but I don't know the full answer. It's a question for Christians to ask themselves. Now, part of the answer is that there— I can answer from the Jewish side. I know why Jews did it. I don't know why Christians didn't. Maybe knowing why Jews did, and the absence of these two factors in Christian life, might answer— might in fact just give the reason. Number one, Jews are not just a religion, they're a people. Christianity is a religion, not a people. That's not better or worse, it's just a fact. You're not born a Christian, you are born a Jew. The analogy is to American. Whether you feel American or not, if you're born American, you're American. Whether you feel Jewish or not, you're born Jewish, you are Jewish. So there is a national peoplehood identity in Jewry that you don't have in Christendom. So there is that sense of having to take care of that other Jew because he's a member of my people, not just a co-religionist. That's one factor. Another is that the Jews feel that every Jew who assimilates or is killed is closer to the end of Jewry. Christians don't get up ever and worry that Christians will die out. This is a Jewish problem, not a Christian problem. When you have over a billion people, it's very different than you have 12 million people and you were just— a third of them were just exterminated deliberately. So Jews worry about disappearing, Christians don't worry about about disappearing. So those are two factors that work in Jewish life. I don't think they're the only factors, but they're two factors why Jews went nutty to save Soviet Jews. I mean, it was amazing. Jews in Argentina, where they had it very hard often, every synagogue in Spanish would say, "Save Soviet Jews." In Australian synagogues. It didn't matter where it was. Everybody was worried about Soviet Jewry. And then it went to Ethiopian Jewry. How many Jews knew Ethiopians? Zero. And yet, if it's an Ethiopian Jew who's having trouble, I'm out there for him. I tell the story when I speak for Jewish charities, like United Jewish Community. Formerly UJA, and I tell this story very often that when I was in my 20s, I spent a week living with a family in Bulgaria. And because of my knowledge of Russian and similar Bulgarian, we got along. And one day they brought in friends from rural Bulgaria to meet this young American. And at some point I mentioned I was a Jew, and then there was silence. And then one of them thought, Jews, are they the people who all help each other? And I found that so moving that the only association this rural Bulgarian had about Jews was that they help each other. And that's true. And that is true. So it's something that I wish Christians did more. Christians are the most persecuted religion the world today? I mean, cops are killed regularly in Egypt, Christians are killed, Syrian Christians are killed regularly in Iraq, churches are burned, Christians are sent to prisons in China, and Christendom pretty much, I mean, I know there are church groups that work for these people, but they're small groups. It's just not a big deal in Christian life. And I, and I, and I must— even with all I said, I don't understand it. I just, I don't understand it.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Number 3, again I'll start with something to learn from Christians, and this is a— I guess you could say it's all subjective, so this certainly would go into that category. I do believe that the that religion should have aesthetic greatness, that there should be a beautiful sanctuary, that there should be beautiful music, there should be beautiful architecture and beautiful art. And Christianity has been the world leader in this. You know, it's one of the I don't know if a Jew has ever visited France and not gone to the, you know, Notre Dame Cathedral. I am moved. I am profoundly moved by a beautiful cathedral. I'll never forget, we have a few in the United States. I mean, my wife and I visited the St. Paul Cathedral and we were just, we were, as they say, blown away. And here's a A story, what do they say when you air dirty laundry? But why not? I've annoyed everybody tonight already. There arose in Jewish life an idea that if Christians did X, Jews should do not X. So for example, they play the organ in their church. So now the Orthodox have an excuse for not playing the organ. They don't allow musical instruments on the Sabbath. Hey, I don't happen to agree with it. It's one of the reasons I'm not Orthodox, but at least they're consistent and I understand. But even a lot of Reform, not all, but a lot, or Conservative, "Oh, it sounds like a church!" To which I always answer, "So what?" What if that's a nice sound? What if it actually moves people? Isn't that what matters? The issue isn't, does it sound like a church? It's, does it move Jews to feel God? That's what the question is. By the way, this question always happened. Jews did not have, for example, until German Reform Jews started it, in the 19th century where rabbis would deliver a sermon from the pulpit, and the argument was, "That's what the Protestants do. That's what the goyim do." And to which their answer was, "Maybe it's a good idea," which seems to me to be the more logical and rational response and the one that God would actually prefer. Now, of course, An Orthodox rabbi lecture from the pulpit, but the opposition originally was that's what they do in churches. And I'll tell you, I won't mention names because I just won't mention names, but on the East Coast, I am very familiar with an Orthodox synagogue recently built, I think at the cost Do you remember the cost? Was it $20 million? $28 million? It's an elaborate warehouse.

It is.

If you were to walk in, you would not know. If I took down Hebrew, you would not know that it was not a warehouse. It is downright ugly. How do you do $28 million ugly is it? I think that's an achievement. I mean, I don't know how you do it. The guy got to get some credit. How you make an uninspiring house of prayer, and yet, and people I know agree with me who attend that particular synagogue. But if you look at the synagogues built in the 19th century in the United States, And in the early 20th century, they're stunning with gorgeous, beautiful stained glass, and beautiful lighting, and woodwork, and so on. And then the idea arose, well, it looks too much like a church, I guess. I don't know what arose. Likewise, with, you know, we have some beautiful Jewish melodies, absolutely, but, you know, It's not quite up there with a lot of the hymns that you will hear at a church, and certainly not up there with Handel's Messiah, but then you can't blame Judaism for not producing a Handel's Messiah, right? And anyway, if it weren't for the Jews, there would be no Messiah, so, you know, it's a joint effort. Now we go over to what Jews can teach Christians or Christians can learn from Jews. This is line number 3 out of 5, and this is a very— this is a big one, and I said I would come back to this one, where the priests and ministers would tell me that the Sabbath was in their heart, and as a Jew, that you might as well say to me me, "Water is dry." It makes the same sense to me. Judaism's great, great message, if I had to distill, aside from ethics rooted in God, its greatest single message is that behavior matters more than feelings. By the way, those of you who know me from radio, which is most of you, will know that's my key message. That's my message on happiness. Act happy even if you don't feel it. It's a moral obligation to act happy and not inflict your bad moods on others. The fact that you feel lousy is your problem, not mine. Have a great day. I got this all from Judaism. Behavior, behavior, behavior. Not feeling, not feeling, not feeling. I learned it in 4th grade, one of my all-time favorite stories. 4th grade yeshiva, the rabbi says, "Boys, it is time to daven mincha, it is time to pray the afternoon prayer." I walked over to the rabbi. I always had chutzpah, but I never was disrespectful, and I just said, "Rabbi, excuse me, but I'm not in the mood to daven mincha." The man was utterly perplexed. He understood English. He was from East Europe, but he understood English fine. But it was clear he had never in his life heard those juxtaposed concepts of praying and mood. So he thought and he thought, and he finally said— in the Jewish subjects, they use your Hebrew name. My Hebrew name is Shmuel. And he said, "Dennis Prager is not in the mood to daven mincha?

So what?" That was it.

That was it. Like, God cares if I'm in the mood? It's just the idea. The idea struck him as so absurd, he couldn't— "So what?" was the only possible coherent reaction. And by the way, the man changed my life. It's not that I continued to daven mincha, I didn't. But I continue to think, "So what?" if I'm in the mood or not to this day. By the way, just to show you how much I have brought this idea out into the world, into every part of life. And you may not know this, and if you— now that you know it, you may regret that you came tonight, but I wrote a two-part column. I have a column every week, as many, I hope many of you know, and at the end of the year, I write two columns on utterly personal issues. So two years ago, I wrote two parts, and they were on the subject of when a woman is not in the mood. And I have the audacity to suggest that even if you're not in the mood, if he's a really good man, what the hell? I'll say this: whoever is married to the women who applauded is a lucky man. I looked around very carefully. But I got that. By the way, that is a quintessentially Jewish concept. The idea that you will only have sex in a marriage, providing it's a decent marriage and a decent person, etc., I mean, all the givens. Only when you're in the their mood strikes Judaism as absurd. It would be as silly Jewishly as him getting up and, you know, "I'm not in the mood to work." So what? People have obligations. Sex is an obligation. The romantic notion that every time it should be embarked on because both are totally in the mood and there are candles and that you have hired a roving violinist. It's silly.

It's silly.

And so I got this all from "So what?" It changed my life about happiness, about sex, about ethics. You know, you're supposed to give X amount of charity. You're not in the mood, So what? I mean, it's endless, the so whats of Judaism. Judaism is a behavioral religion. By the way, it goes in the other direction too, because if you have bad thoughts— the most famous call of my 30 years of radio, the man who said he was a bad son, 40 years old. Why are you a bad son? He said, 'Cause Dennis, I'm the sole financial, physical, emotional support for my mother, who's been ailing for 10 years, and Dennis, I gotta tell you, there were times, I hate to even tell you, but I'm just opening up to you, I wish she would succumb to her illness. And I said, you're not a bad son, I want you to know it's an honor to speak to you, you're one of the finest sons I have ever spoken to. He thought I was mocking him. And I was dead serious, because I said to him, I judge you, and God judges you, by how you treat your mother, not what you think. This is the great Jewish lesson for the world. Behavior over feeling. We have become far too feeling-oriented. The way we raise our kids. How do you feel about it? I don't care! Okay? The sooner the kid learns it doesn't matter, no one cares how he feels about it, the better it is for that child. Because you become a prisoner of your feelings. That's what happens. You become a prisoner of your emotions. You are only the master of your ship when you master your behavior. You'll never master your feelings. I'm sorry. At least I haven't. Okay? Most of my day is spent doing things I'm not in the mood to do.

Okay?

And by the way, I just, I read it on the air I believe, the man considered, a man named Kahneman from Princeton, considered the greatest living psychologist, Nobel Prize in economics, the guy's a genius, but he's a brilliant thinker too. Which is very rare for someone at Princeton.

And he—

no, it is, it's very rare, but it's to his credit. And he found out, it's very interesting, he did this study, a serious study, and it confirmed my view that studies confirm what common sense suggests or they're wrong, but it was a great one where overwhelmingly people who people who earn $20,000 spend like 4 times more time watching television than people who earn $100,000. Might that not be a factor? But you're not allowed to say that in American life because that's blaming the victim. Maybe a lot of poor people are poor because they didn't work hard. Some are because of bad luck. That's true. And they have to be helped. But a lot of people don't work hard And he went on to say, most of their life is doing shoulds, not wants. That's right, that's the way it works. That's a big Jewish lesson. Now here, Christians do have some difference, and this is one of the few not fully reconcilable differences. And Christians, just as Jews have to grapple with some of the stuff I raised, I think here's something Christians have to grapple with. Because Christianity can be behaviorist in the way I just described— behavior is more important— but it can also be the other way around. And the famous difference is with regard to Jesus' famous statement in Matthew, a man who looks after another woman, lusts after another woman, it's as if he has committed adultery with his heart. There is no analogue in normative Judaism. You can only commit adultery with one organ, and it's not the heart. It is just, I mean, to be blunt as possible, with the rabbi's permission, thank you. No, no, it's a It's a very big deal. Now let me tell you, here's a very interesting evolution in me. I started out life with Patsy Freud. I started out with Christian envy. I'll never forget, I would go every Friday night on the Sabbath, we would take a walk around the block in my Brooklyn neighborhood, which was not a particularly Jewish neighborhood. Sabbath, and that we were an Orthodox home, and I would see all these people driving, and of course the Orthodox are not allowed to drive on the Sabbath, and I remember thinking, man, why couldn't I be born a Christian? Then I could drive on the Sabbath and still go to heaven. What a deal! I thought Christians had the greatest deal going in religious life. We had to observe all these rules to get into heaven. They believed in Christ, they could eat ham, bacon, shrimp, lobster, prawns, and drive on Shabbos. I mean, what a deal! And I was just transfixed with this. How did they have it so easy? Then I did Religion on the Line and I lost all Christian envy because Christians traded in sin sin over behavior/ritual for sin over thought. And I thought, uh-oh, I'll go back to sin over behavior any day of the week. Sin over thought, I'm committing suicide. I'm deadsville. I mean, my father was the president of an Orthodox synagogue and subscribed to Playboy. And now when you You tell this to a Christian, they hyperventilate. My father was faithful to my mother for 73 years. That's pretty darn good. But he got Playboy. He did. And she never thought he was committing adultery. So this is a very— this is a real challenge here, and it's tough because I'm challenging, in effect, the statement of Jesus. Now, on behalf of Jesus, he didn't say the man's committing adultery. He said he's committing it with his heart, and that's very important. If he said he's committing adultery, it would be insoluble. But Jesus was too smart. And too steeped in Judaism and common sense to say lusting is the same as adultery. I mean, you have to be a fool to say that. Say you're committing it with your heart, that's different. That's different. It's still not a statement that would be normative Jewish, but it's not the same as the ultimate statement that it's the same. And that's important for Christians to remember. It's still with the heart.

Okay.

Ask any woman though which she would prefer, and I think she'll tell you, you know, my husband is faithful, but every so often he commits lust with his heart at the beach. Okay, most women can live with that, I think. Jimmy Carter couldn't live with that, remember that? In his Playboy interview, he was totally— he was consumed by the fact that he committed that sin. There's a difference. That is a That's the Jewish-Christian difference. My best story, and I— the only reason I hesitate is because my wife has heard this over 200 times, but to her great credit, she actually acts like— she behaves like she still enjoys it. I don't know what she feels, but I love it every time, okay? If she doesn't, she doesn't. I'm sorry, but Do you like it every time? Every time. Yeah, she's a good wife. Okay.

This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

Religion on the Line, year 5. I would give the clergy a topic, right? You heard it. I would give the clergy a topic. So tonight's topic was, what is your religion's view on lust? So, okay, the Protestant minister began— that's how I always go, minister, priest, rabbi, then the second round rabbi, priest, minister. So we would go, okay, pastor, please. So of course he would cite Jesus in Matthew and how a Christian aspires to purity of thought in all realms and lust is sinful. And he spoke beautifully. The Catholic priest virtually identically, totally understandably in this case. Sometimes there were Protestant-Catholic differences, but not tonight. Again, cited Jesus in Matthew and spoke of the purity of the heart and thought. And now it came the rabbi's turn. Now the rabbi, like the priest and minister, were different ones each week. This week it happened to be not only an Orthodox rabbi, but a bearded Orthodox rabbi. Even more, you know, almost ultra-Orthodox. And that's not a description, it's a commonly used description. So I didn't know what he would say. I was pretty certain that if I had a modern Orthodox or Reform or Conservative, I would know what they would say, but I had no idea what he would say. So I go, Rabbi, please, your understanding of Judaism's view on lust. And then he He goes, Dennis, lost, schmust.

That was it.

That was his entire answer. And I always note, I don't remember when I was prouder being a Jew than with this rabbi's answer. I mean, he came through with flying colors for me because that really And the answer really is basically— I'm not saying all ultra-Orthodox Jews would say that, but the vast majority of rabbis would answer exactly that. You know, that's not where our emphasis is. Don't act on it and have a great day. That's pretty much what it would be. As my father would get Playboy and be faithful to my mother for 73 years. I mean, it wasn't hidden. It came in the mail. Mr. Max Prager. I was surprised it didn't have President Kingsway Jewish Center. So it's a very interesting issue that is a tough one. Now, does this mean that if one's thoughts are all day long in the impure zone, it is a good thing? No, it isn't a good thing. Common sense prevails here. On the other hand, men being what we are, visually excited instantaneously. So what? So what? A man learns to control his behavior and everybody moves on. And the irony is the more he has to hide from his wife, "Oh honey, I never look at any other woman." Any man who says that to his wife is hiding. First of all, he's lying, which is a very bad thing between couples to begin with. Secondly, he's hiding a part of him from her. And it shouldn't be scary. Well, that's why I have my male/female hour. I could show you literally thousands of letters of people saying it changed their marriage. Because it's a scary thing to women when they think about it, and then it's not scary when they learn about it. That's a very important— male sexuality is scary to women at the outset. Totally understandable because there's no analog in women's sexual life. We are animals compared to you. That's correct. That's correct. Right, I mean, how many girls— I mean, forgetting the sexual— did your daughter ever go in the middle of the living room and spread her buttocks and toot?

No!

Girls just don't do that. They don't have to be taught. Now, you never fart in public? Boys have to be taught that. That's why, by the way, I want to tell you something. The reason men want boys is not sexist. It's so that their wife begins to appreciate what they became.

Okay.

And finally, finally, the issue of suffering. There is a difference between Jews and Christians, and we can each help each other out here. Both have a lot of very good things, and there's no— there's really no better or worse here, it's just different. And here's my great example that would make my case. I want you to imagine that a group of Jews, a group of Catholics, and a group of Protestants are invited to have lunch together for an ecumenical lunch, right? Our church will get to meet your church, will get to meet your synagogue. Lovely. They are intentionally, because I'm conducting this test to no one's knowledge, they are all given somewhat unripe cantaloupe. Which group will complain the most? Out of curiosity, Seriously, is there anyone here who has any doubt as to the correct answer?

Okay, right.

It's a non-issue. The Jews will complain the most. The Catholics will complain second most, and the Protestants will complain the least. In fact, the Protestants will relish the fact that it's not right because it's more Christ-like. By the way, that's That's my belief. Suffering for Christians is Christ-like. Suffering for Jews stinks. It's a very big, fascinating difference. For— give me more, give me more, more unripe cantaloupe. I'll sue you for this unripe cantaloupe. I am a member of the We do not have unripe cantaloupe. It's really an interesting difference. Now, that's on a fun level. On a serious level, it plays out too. By the way, it might be part of the reason for the Jews being more active for Soviet Jews and the Christians for Soviet Christians. Because the suffering of those Soviet Christians Christians did not offend in the way that the suffering of Soviet Jews offended Jews. And this is not a judgment at all. It's just a description. Suffering is just bad in Jewish thinking. It is not just bad in Christian thinking. Christ suffered the ultimate suffering for us. If I have my cross to bear, then there's no Jewish equivalent to my cross to bear? None at all. And so we can learn from each other. The Christian acceptance of suffering has its benefits because life is going to have them anyway. And yet the Jewish rejection of it is also important because God didn't make us just to suffer. I mean, there's no biblical basis for that, and no logical basis for it. Not a good God. A good God wants us to love life, to enjoy life even. So that's a very interesting aspect as well. And I'll give you one biblical difference that, and it's one of the only ones between the Testaments. Disagreements that I could find, one of the only, in fact perhaps the only irreconcilable difference. I'm not talking theology because that's not the issue, but I'm talking life, not belief, not faith. And that is divorce. The Torah allows for divorce. Jesus pretty much Doesn't. I mean, it's allowed under very exceptional circumstances, but they're pretty much defined what those exceptional circumstances are, and a lot of Christian life has adopted a ban, an existential ban. I have Protestant friends— well, obviously the Catholic Church doesn't allow it unless the marriage is annulled, and the vast majority marriages can't be annulled. So in Catholicism and for evangelical Protestants, it's just a no-no. But Judaism allowed it. In fact, a rabbi wrote a book. Perry Netter, conservative rabbi in Los Angeles, wrote a book, Divorce is a Mitzvah. That's an unbelievably heretical thing for a Christian to to hear. Mitzvah means commandment or good deed. How could divorce be a mitzvah? I mean, it's like, it's almost an oxymoron. And yet he took it from Rashi, who was a major Orthodox commentator in the Middle Ages from France. The Talmud, which is the book the rabbi made reference to earlier, which is the which is a compendium of Jewish law and thought, the Torah, and later rabbinic responsa, all allow for divorce. It's no mitzvah to live in misery. And that's part of the Jewish view of suffering. And that is a very interesting question for Christians to reflect on. I mean, I reported on the air. You know how many stories I don't report on? You can only imagine. Either they're not absolutely verified, or, you know, there's no point, or it's too this or too that. This one was so dark, and I have a dark sense of humor, and I think anybody who deals with suffering has to have a dark sense of humor, or they cut their wrists. And so there was this story, I don't remember out of which city, but it happened last week, in fact. An older couple, obviously not getting along well. He apparently got so sick of her barbs at him, he shot her. And he shot her and missed. And she said to him, "You can't even shoot straight." And then he shot her and she died. But she went out with an insult. Now, it's a terribly dark story. Alan, my producer, Dennis Prager sends me these articles at night, and he has his brilliant one-line summaries. His summary of that one was— what was it? How did it begin with?

Insulting your husband is one thing.

Oh yes, insulting your husband is one thing. Insulting your husband with a gun in his hand is another. So that was— now why do I raise this? Why did stay together. You realize the hatred that was built up over years for this to happen, that he would kill his wife and that she would die insulting him? I mean, your heart breaks after the laughter. Your heart breaks. It's a very odd thing to me, this notion that, and it's worthy of its own lecture, the the judgmental quality over divorce. Now you'll say, well, look, I've been divorced, so that's why I'm saying it. Any of you who know me know I don't say anything because of me. I take so many positions that aren't for me. I mean, I'm not Christian and I defend Christianity constantly. I mean, and I'm critical of Jews on a whole host of political issues. Constantly. I don't take positions because I did it or don't do it. I felt this way before I was ever married, and partially because I was raised with the Jewish notion that it's not a mitzvah to suffer. You do what you can to keep a marriage together, but you know, how do you know at 25 or 21 or 19 how someone's going to be at 36 or 42? What a What do you know? How do you know how you will turn out? There's no practice. You can't practice this. You can learn. It's easier to be a good surgeon than to have a good marriage. You know what the Jewish tradition says about marriage? What is this great Jewish question? What's God been doing since the 6th day of creation? Making couples. And it's considered the hardest thing he has to do. Clearly doesn't do a great job. But that's Jews. Jews are allowed to have that relationship with God where we kid around with him. It's very good. It's healthy. But it's just something to think about, and it's part of the issue of suffering. To review, I think that Jews have an immense amount to learn from Christians on prayer, on being religious in the world. Oh, and I didn't mention— that's too bad, I'll mention it anyway. This is really something to Christians' credit. Christians feel a religious mission to humanity. Jews don't. And the Jews who have a mission to humanity are not religious. As I always say, the Jewish tragedy is the Jews who live Judaism don't talk to the world, and the Jews who talk to the world don't live Judaism. But Christians who live Christianity do talk to the world. They want to bring their values and Christ to the world. More power to them. So that's a huge— that's something else that Jews can learn. The aesthetic beauty idea, the acceptance, more acceptance of suffering. On the Jewish side, the power of ritual, care for coreligionists, behavior is ultimately more important than thought, and the issue of not accepting victims of suffering. I will end by saying that is why I so love America. It is the only country that ever said it was rooted in Judeo-Christian values. And it is. And really what it did, it took the best from both and made the best country. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

First of all, thank you for your wisdom, and listening to you sort of brought me back a few years being able to learn from you in Los Angeles. I hope you'll come back to the area.

We're very glad to have you here. Thank you.

You concluded with really an affirmation of this great country in which we live. But there's another thing that I know many Jews and Christians share, and that is a love for the land and people of Israel, and I was just hoping maybe you could share a few of your thoughts as they relate to this topic on a shared love that we have for the people of Israel.

Let me just ask, will there be time for questions and answers, or are we going to just go for— we're pretty late, huh?

We're getting late. We may have time for one or two. We're not going to have hours.

So let me— that's fine. Let me answer that because this is a very moving thing to me. I work a lot with Christians United for Israel. They're not the They're not the only Christians who care for Israel, but they're the largest group that does. Pastor John Hagee is the head of it. I've spoken at their annual convention in Washington as well as regionally around the country in various churches. And to see this outreach by Christians on behalf of the Jewish people in Israel, actually the first time I did it, it was at a enormous church. 3,000 people were present just in the church itself in Arvada, Colorado. And I was crying so much in my chair that I never pray for anything. I mean, I pray for others, but I never pray for me. Maybe it's stupid, it's just my idiosyncrasy. I actually made a prayer for for me, God, please make sure I just get control of myself by the time I go up there to speak. Because I don't mind— I have sobbed publicly, but you know, it's a few seconds. But to just be overcome with emotion and not speak is unimpressive. So I really did make this prayer. That's how moved I was by what I was seeing. See, Jews are not used They're not used to being liked. I mean it. This is, by the way, why a lot of Jews are suspicious of Christian outreach of love to them. They can't believe it's for real. When you're hated for thousands of years, all of a sudden you're told, "No, no, they really love you." "Oh, give me a break, man." That is really what is behind Jewish recalcitrance. At even supporting such efforts. It's foolish and self-destructive, but it's more psychological and slightly political than anything else. So, but it's— I mean, what is more reinforcing of one's Jewish or Christian faith than the return of the Jews to Israel? I mean, I just I mean, what act, what historical act suggests the divine like that one? I don't know one. Now for all other things, Christians believe in the resurrection, totally understandable, but it's not the same as a historical act is in the sense that a Christian believes that happened, a Buddhist doesn't. This know that the Jews returned to Israel, just as with the splitting of the sea. It's an act of faith. I believe the sea was split, but I admit it's an act of faith. But it's not an act of faith that the Jews returned to Israel as prophesied 2,000 years ago, and there's no parallel to it. And that the Jews and Israel are at the center of the great hatred of the greatest evil forces of any time, it also suggests to me that there was the divine involved. And Christians believe this. It's very funny. For years, I hesitated to speak about Jewish chosenness in synagogues, but when I spoke in churches, oh my God, I would just mention Jews, that I'm a member of the chosen people, and hey, hallelujah, amen, God bless you, cheers. I would go to Christians for Jewish sustenance. You know, I tell Jews very often, and if it's just a synagogue audience, you know, the day Jews believe in the Torah as much as Christians do, the Messiah will come. First or second time, depending on which group you're in this evening. So what do we do, sir? Should we just, uh, should we— we're ready to do— yeah, we're ready to sign books and just greet. Okay, listen, so let me just say Anyway, it's been a joy, a real joy. Terrific audience. Means the world to me that you listen to me on the radio, and I'm humbled by this fact. And I will end by telling you, I don't think— I know that there is no force in the world as powerful as Jews and Christians united together to fight for what God wants. That I do believe. That's why I love this evening.

Thank you.

Nice prayer. Very— thank you very, very much.

This has been Timeless Wisdom. With Dennis Prager. Visit DennisPrager.com for thousands of hours of Dennis' lectures, courses, and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. Your beloved dog and a stranger are both drowning. You can only save one. Who do you save? Every time Dennis Prager asks that question, his audience splits three ways. One-third chooses the dog, one-third chooses the stranger, and one-third aren't sure.

Why?

Because we live in an age where increasingly feelings define right and wrong. But if morality is based on emotion, then murder, rape, and theft are just opinions. And if people feel justified, why is rioting or destruction wrong at all? In his new book, If There Is No God, Dennis Prager explains why civilizations cannot why we can't survive without objective morality, and why Judeo-Christian values shape the moral foundations of the free world.

If you claim that certain things are good, certain things are evil, independent of how you feel about it, you are in effect affirming God.

If There Is No God by Dennis Prager, available now at PragerStore.com. That's PragerStore.com.