Difficult Conversations with Katherine Eitel Belt

You go first. You show what it looks like to take responsibility and ownership for a piece of this. And when you do, it does not make you look less than. It actually puts you in an incredible leadership position and you become the example of the exact behavior you're hoping they're going to show to you. You're hoping they're going to take responsibility for their piece.

This is Growth in Dentistry, a dental intelligence podcast where we ask the question, what does growth in Dentistry mean to you? I'm Steve Jensen, a data dental nerd and your host. Welcome everyone to another episode of the Growth in Dentistry podcast. I am excited for today's conversation. In a very personal way, this is something that everyone can use regardless of your if you're a dental professional or not. Since this is a dental podcast, obviously we're going to tailor it to you, but this conversation is going to be awesome. Now, before I introduce our speaker and our guests and what we're going to talk about, I want to do a quick shout out to Dental Intelligence for sponsoring this podcast week after week after week. There's a lot of work that goes in on the back end of editing the audio and bleeping out all of my swear words. And the Dental Intelligence team does a great job at producing this podcast. I just want to give them a huge shout out and as a gift they have for all listeners. If you haven't checked out Dental Intelligence in a while or you've never checked out Dental Intelligence, they're offering a $50 gift card just for taking a demo. They are always releasing cool new features. So if you, I think people, most people know them for their analytics platform, that's like the first thing they released. And I think for some folks that might scare them a little bit. And they released a very cool new AI tool where if you're not super data savvy, you, you can just chat with an AI bot and ask it questions about your practice. Say, hey, like where are we crushing it? And where might I focus on? As an office manager or as a hygienist or as an associate? Or maybe you haven't seen some of the engagement features they've done, like automating some of the consent forms that go out or automating some of the forms input back into Dentrix Eaglesoft Open Dental. So they've got some cool stuff that's definitely worth checking out if you've never checked out the software. Okay, with that aside, I want to jump right into our episode for today. So I have Katherine Eitel belt on with me. Hello, Katherine.

Hello. Hello. Glad to be with you.

Welcome to the show. I'll share this with the audience. I first met Katherine, I think, in person. The first time when I went to Adom back, I think it was 2018 or 2019. I was new to dentistry, not necessarily new to presenting. I had done some teaching background, but it was the biggest speaking engagement I'd ever had. And Catherine was so kind to come and spend a few minutes with me. I don't know if you remember this.

I do.

With me, before I jumped up and went and presented for an hour in front of this big group of office managers. That was terrifying for me, you know, six, seven years ago. You guys have never met Catherine. Catherine is the founder and CEO of a company called Lionspeak. So lion, like the animal speak. And she has been doing this for a long time. She has over 35 years of experience as keynote speaker, as a coach. She has a certified speaking professional designation from the National Speakers Association. That's something that only 17% of speakers ever get. So it's a. It's something that she worked hard towards and that just shows that she knows what the heck she's doing. So you went to dental school to learn how to do dentistry and Catherine went to speaking school. I don't know if you want to call it that, but she's, in a way, yes, in public speaking and communication, I want to make sure that's clear as well. It's not just the ability to get on a stage and tell a story. Those skills go well beyond the stage. So the conversation we're going to have today is, I think, less about, hey, if you're listening, how do I get on a path where I'm on a stage as a dental influencer? That's not the conversation we're going to have today. I'm sure if you wanted to talk to Katherine about that, she could probably. But the conversation we're going to have today is Katherine is sitting on a well of knowledge about communication styles, about how to communicate. And the thing that's been on my mind is as a leader or as a team member in a dental practice, there are so many difficult conversations that have to happen. There are from, you know, team members running behind schedule, team members not showing up, you feeling like a team member's not pulling their weight, or maybe it's the other way. Maybe I'm a team member and I want to have a conversation about compensation with my boss and I don't know how to do that or whatever it is. Maybe it's difficult conversations with patients where it's like, man, they're really frustrating me and I am having a hard time not blowing up. Like, there are so many scenarios in a dental practice where it's so human driven. We're just constantly interacting with other humans. So many, so many difficult conversations. So today we're going to talk about managing tough conversations in a dental practice. So, Katherine, welcome. Thank you, Expert. And I want to start off with maybe like, like I set the stage question. You, you've been in dentistry for a lot of years. What are some of the, like, most common, tough conversations you're helping people walk through? And let's start there, maybe get some big hitters out of the way.

Okay. Well, yeah, I think you nailed a couple of the, the most common. But, you know, one of the things we do every day is communicate. And you are absolutely, if you live or work or drive or do anything out in the world, you are doing it with others. And they're not always going to do things the way we think they should. And having correct, what I call a courageous conversation where that's a conversation where you need to set a boundary or you need to hold someone to a standard or you need to clear up an expectation, you need to explore some ideas for how to solve a challenge together, whatever that is. We tend to avoid it. And the reason I think we avoid it is because most of us, there are certainly some exceptions, but most of us, when I ask an audience, how, raise your hand if you grew up in a family where your parents or grandparents modeled the most healthy way to handle conflict or courageous conversations. And a few hands will go up. Very few. But the majority don't raise their hands because the majority of us didn't.

Yeah.

And most of us, same question, we didn't go to a class, we didn't take a class on it. Now you can get a degree in conflict resolution, but so there are classes. And some have gone to them, but most of us have not. So is it any surprise that we throw a whole bunch of humans into a small space like a dental practice and we say go, you know, and good luck. And good luck doing the one thing you'll do every day. You might not do an implant every day, you might not, you know, schedule a big case every day, but you're, you're going to communicate. And so we are faced with this. And so I think it's a life skill. You said it. It doesn't really matter if this is a conversation at home, if it's A conversation with your boss or with your employee or with your co worker or a stranger that rear ended you on the freeway, it doesn't really matter. We're going to have times where we need to deal with a conflict related conversation. And I think it only empowers us and our teams and the world when we learn a few simple skills that, so that we can do that better and so we don't feel like we have to avoid it. I'll tell you the. Excuse me, I'm getting over a cold. So my. Pardon me. I think the, one of the most common things I hear today that breaks my heart is managers and owners will say to me or team leaders will say, you know, Katherine, I want to have these conversations. There's a bunch of them I need to have. Really, if I could, I would, but I don't because I. Here's what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid if the conversation doesn't go well, I'm going to lose the employee or the coworker. And in this employment, the state of employment we have right now, I won't be able to replace them. If they were to quit, I wouldn't be able to replace them for months and I can't afford that. And so what that suggests is there's only two ways the conversation can go. You either have the conversation and you lose the employee or the co worker or you don't have it and you keep them. And I would love for us to explore a third option because I believe there is a third option. I believe that you can and should have the conversation. If you do it with just understanding a few principles. You can not only keep the employee or the co worker, but you can actually strengthen the relationship with it and, and solve the issue. I would just like to suggest there's a third way. And you know, you're, you're in the majority. If you've been avoiding them and you can, you can hit the reset button, learn a few things and, and start over with a clean slate and have these conversations.

Yeah, you certainly have my attention. You know, you're talking about a dental practice. I think that happens all the time. And I can even think of all the time, you know, team members here at Dental Intelligence. But then I even like think about like my marriage. It's like there are conversations that would just sit for a long time and then once you get on the other side, one thing I'll just say, once you get on the other side of tough conversations, you're like, oh, why did I wait why did I wait so long?

Why did I wait so long? Yeah. Because the one thing we know is it isn't going to get better and it's not going to go away.

Yeah.

And it is most likely to get worse because we hold resentment. We hold. Or the thing that we could clear up just keeps happening because no one's addressed it. So it just keeps making it worse. And so, you know, I just had my husband and I, I tell this story in my speeches. Bless my husband's heart. My husband and I have. We are on slightly different sides of the political spectrum, thankfully, not huge, but a little bit. And so you can imagine election year for us in our household. And when the debates were going on this last season, we weren't doing very well in those, on those debate nights. And so I thought, well, you know what? We need a, we need a conversation about it. I don't think I've ever identified what I need to have those go better for, for me and for us. And so we did sit down and my husband knows this framework. He knows the things I teach, so he knows what, where, what step I'm on or what I'm doing, you're about to do matter. It's like he said at the end, this really does work. And I said, it really does. And it worked for us to explore in a way that protects our relationship and actually strengthens it to come away with some agreement. So we came away with the most hilarious agreements. No, no wine at, on, you know, dinner at debate night. That was one of them. And, and no running commentary during the debate. We, we agreed that we would just watch it, think about it, have our, make our own opinions, come to our own opinions, come away from it. And then maybe the next morning we would sit down after a good night's rest and about what we thought, you know, and it went much better. And so those are the kinds of things where if you want your relationships to improve and you want your life to improve and your career. Let me, let me just suggest that there are people all over this country in our industry dying to hire people who could prove that they have experience and success and, and having mastered these skills, that they know how to talk to a team, they know how to manage maybe a little hot sp spot at a team meeting when there is some disagreement or there's some push back on, on, you know, systems or a request that's being made, when someone can demonstrate, especially if you're in a leadership position, if you can demonstrate that you know how to do this and to improve the relationship. It's a, it's a very hot skill right now and it can, it can drive a career to the moon.

So let's start then. I want, I want to get into your brain and start getting some of this framework. It sounds like you have, you know, some framework, some way of thinking through having these conversations. Do you mind sharing a little about that framework?

I'm happy to share the whole thing. Yeah.

Okay, great.

Well, you can imagine we, we have a 12 month leadership academy, virtual leadership academy, where we take, you know, leadership teams or teams in general through the, through the work. So we could spend a year talking about it, but we have a few minutes so I'm going to give you a high level look at it. But it is the framework. One thing I'll say before I jump into this four step framework for the conversation is we also teach a mindset piece and that actually, you know, it precipitates the, the, the framework, the opening of your mouth and speaking. Because if you use the framework from what we would call a weak emotional platform, meaning you're standing in fear, you're standing in anger, you're standing in high levels of frustration, which often aren't we at the conflict. We're frustrated, we're angry, we're, you know, maybe we've, our feelings are hurt or whatever, or we're fearful that we aren't, you know, about how this conversation is going to go. So any of those negative emotional platforms, the framework will not help you. You could still use my framework and it's not going to get you the result. So the first thing you have to do is A, be aware of your emotional state and B, be, have a few tools to be able to move yourself to a more stable, a more positive, optimistic state of mind and state of being. And so that's the first thing we teach. We teach asking yourself, what what part of this might be mine? What what part do I have some responsibility in this breakdown? So for back to the example of my husband, part of the thing I could take responsibility for is that I hadn't yet identified what I needed and I certainly therefore hadn't expressed it to him. So how could he meet an expectation he never knew existed? Right. So I could say one thing I just want to own or one thing I want to apologize for, or one thing I want to take response. You know, you, we're known as the unscripted communications coaches, so you use your own words. But the idea is what could I take ownership of that would be mine? It's a great way to start. And it gets you in the right frame of mind. Like this isn't a wholly impossible situation or terrible person on the other side. The second thing we look at in mindset is how, what is it we currently believe about the situation or about the person? And we just poke some holes in those beliefs. That's what we like to say. And we do that with a series of really powerful questions. So questions like, is this the only way this story could go? Is the ending that I fear the only way that story could end? Is there something I, I have yet to learn about the other person's perspective that might create, make a difference for me? There's all we have. We have a list literally of 30 or 40 questions that people could ask to just sort of retool their limiting beliefs and open up some possibilities. And then the last thing we talk about in mindset is how do you get in something we call a flow state? So a flow state is when you're feeling all positive emotion, optimistic, forgiving, generous, kind, you know, patient, all those beautiful positive emotions because it's the best place. So we spend some time in how to do that. Once you're in a great state of mind now you can apply the framework. And the framework is really four steps. So one of the things we say before you lock into the four steps, we want you to listen. So what I might say to you, I might say, steve, I want to talk to you today about how we share the load of our work on a day to day basis. And I have a request and a couple of ideas that I think could make the sharing of our workload a little more fair and a little better. But before I jump into that, I'm just curious, Steve, how do you think it's going in terms of how we share our workload? Right. So if I'm bringing the conversation, one of the first things you want to do is you'll set the context, here's what I want to talk about in a neutral way, and then you'll check in with them because whatever Steve, you're going to tell me is going to identify what we call the gap. And it's the gap between expectation and reality. So if you say, katherine, I'm so glad that you are talking to me about this. I actually wanted to talk to you about it. I was hoping that's what this conversation was about. I actually don't think it's going well and I actually have some ideas of my own and I'm anxious to talk about it. And create a better working environment for both of us. Our gap is really small. If you say some version of that, right? Like, we're already in agreement that we need to work on this. But if, Steve, you said, I don't know what you're talking about. I think I do more than my share. So I don't even know why we're having this conversation. And I feel offended that you're even bringing this to me. Right? So our gap is really big. So I always make the case. When would you want to know that gap exists? Would you want to know that it exists at the end of your conversation or at the beginning? Right. So what? So check in. Check in and listen and get curious and ask questions. So that's the first thing we want you to do. The second rule we have, and the other person may not know the rule, but if you've been trained, you will, and that is no talking backwards. So we have a rule that if. If Steve says, well, I always do. I always do my fair share, instead of saying, well, actually, you don't. Yesterday, you. But then they go, no, I didn't. You go, yes, you did. No, I didn't. Yes, you did. If you've had a teenager, you've been in this, what we call the spin cycle, right? And it's easy to get sucked into the spin cycle. And so what we say is, our own internal rule is no talking backwards. So if they do, we go forward? I would say, well, Steve, I appreciate that. And what I'd like to do is talk about how could we create looking forward, how could we create a way that we could both feel really good about how the work's divided? And if Steve says, well, I'm telling you that I do, I'd say, okay, would you be willing to look at a system that would ensure that we both feel really confident about that going, Like, I just keep redirecting. Can we just talk about the future? Can we talk about the. Can we not talk about the past? Because there's no winning the past. Like, we see it differently. So let's just not go there. Let's go forward. So those are two rules. Before you go in, once you get in, the framework is really simple. The acronym for the framework is arch A, R, C, H. And I'm going to give a download a QR code that you can put in the show notes where if any of your listeners want to go, they can get this arch support sheet. I hope they it's free, it's complimentary from us. I hope you Print it out. I hope you talk to your teams about it. I hope you put it on your kids bulletin board at home. You know, I think it would make the world a better place. So I'm happy to share it. But what you're going to see on it is this acronym of arch. And the A stands for a couple of things. Number one, it stands for where do we agree? So where, where around this issue would we agree? We, you and I would probably agree, Stephen, that if that was, if that was our topic, that it's important that we both feel the work is shared fairly. Right? Like we would agree to that. So what I'm looking for in A is I, I know there's some places we don't agree around this subject, but where do we agree? Can we start there? Right? And it's usually some version of we both agree it'd be good to solve this or it would be in our interest to get this right, you know, and so figure out where you agree. The other thing it stands for is if you did find something that you own, that's that you can take ownership for, this would be the place to apologize. Now, you don't have to say, I'm sorry, but you might say, listen, there's a piece of this I want to own that I think is my responsibility. Or there's a, There's a place in this that I kind of fell short and I just want to own it. You don't have to. Excuse me, you don't have to spend a ton of time on this. Just, just own the piece and move on from it. Right? But it's, it's a great way. You know, Stephen, I often ask people what kind. Who would want to hire a person with these characteristics. They're a problem solver, they're a critical thinker, they take responsibility for their actions, their outcomes, their relationships. They are positive and optimistic type of person, and they know and do their jobs well. Who would like to hire that? I mean, everybody raises their hand, right? Like I raise both my hands. I want those people on my team. And so if we want those people, we need to be those people. And so I tell anybody who's going to step into this conversation, you go first. You show what it looks like to take responsibility and ownership for a piece of this. And when you do, it does not make you look less than. It actually puts you in an incredible leadership position. And you become the example of the exact behavior you're hoping they're going to show to you. You're hoping they're going to take responsibility for their piece. And so let's go first. Right. It might be in, in the case of, like with your wife, you might say, well, you know, I've known this has been an issue for a long time, but I've just kind of, you know, swept it under the rug. I. I didn't quite know how to talk about it. I didn't feel comfortable talking about it. And now I realize that part of what I just need to take some ownership of is that I should probably, should have talked about this a long time ago and I'm sorry. Right. And that's it. And then you're ready to move on. So a is if there is a piece, own it. So agreement, apology. The third piece is what could you appreciate about this person or affirm about this person, especially as it relates to the topic. So I might say in our example, Steven, I might say, Steven, one of the things I just want to say before we start is one of the things I appreciate most about you is that you are a hard worker. I mean, you know, when you, like last week when you were reorganizing those cabinets, like, I know you stayed late to do that, to finish that job. And I just want you to know I saw it and I admire that about you. And so it, the closer that your compliment can relate to the issue at hand, the better. And I would just give one warning there that you don't want to say something that's not true. People can smell an incense.

Everyone does.

Yeah, you gotta, you gotta really believe it, you know, so make it small.

And make it kind of a headspace thing. Like, you have to be the right headspace.

You do, you do deliver that. And then I would just say the last thing that A stands for is connect this and the next step of R with the word and not the word word, but because when we give a compliment or an affirmation, appreciation to someone and then we say, you know, I say, I think you're really great at this, but I don't think you carry your fair share. It's like a big eraser to everything that came before. So try to connect it with. And now we move into R. R stands for one of two things. You're going to do. One of two things. You're either going to make a request for something to be different or you're going to resolve. You're going to ask for a resolution, which means you're going to explore with this person a new. A new solution. All right, so it is, it has been Said that all upsets are because of two things. There's. There's either an agreement in place about this thing and somebody has broken that agreement. You know, work starts at 7:45 and they're late. So there was an agreement in place. Work started here and they're late. They broke it. Okay, so that might be. You might be talking about an issue that you're very clear. There was an agreement and your feeling is that someone has broken it. And so in that case, we're requesting. We're requesting clarity about the agreement and recommitment to the original agreement or some retooling of that agreement. Right. But there also is the case that there never was an agreement, as in the, as in my example with my husband, where we never had an agreement about debate night. And so we're still at odds, but there's no agreement to go back to because we never had it in the first place. So in that case, when I get to R, I'm just looking to resolve it. I'm looking to bring some ideas of my own, or I'm looking to say, I really want to solve this. I don't have any ideas. Do you have some ideas, Steven, about how we could do this? Or maybe if neither one of us have an idea, we're going to say, is there someone that we could reach out to? Maybe they're better at this than we are. Maybe they've already solved it. Could. Is there someone, a third party or a resource that we could tap into that could help us create some solutions so that resolving is a negotiation. There's a couple things to remember in R. One is to really get to what people do want versus what they don't want. People have a very easy time talking about what they don't want, and they'll go on and on about what they don't. I don't, I don't like it when she speaks to me. She speaks to me so disrespectfully. I don't like it when she speaks disrespectfully to me. They can go on and on about that, but when. The minute you say, how would you like her to speak to you? They have trouble. They typically have trouble. And so. But that's where the gold is. The gold is in what do you want instead of all the complaining. Yeah. Yes. So sometimes we have to almost coach people in this R part to tell us what they do want. The other thing you want to be clear is you got to be clear going in what your non negotiables are. So you may have some non negotiables. Like one of my non negotiable on debate night was I was not going to have another debate line. Like I would have gotten up and watched that debate later rather than had that kind of uncomfortable arguing and, and you know, bitterness. And I didn't. I, it was a boundary for me. And so I said to him, I'm never going to have another debate like, like that. Like, I'm really clear that it's not worth it to me. But what I would like to talk about is, is there a way we can create some, some expectations or some rules around how we do it that we both can agree to, that we feel good about and let's, let's give it another try, you know, and so just be clear what you're like, not. It might be non negotiable. That work starts at 7:45 and that means you're in the building ready to go, not pulling up into the parking lot. You know, so we might have to clear it up and say that's non negotiable. You know, what is negotiable then? So just being clear about that in art is really helpful. And I will sometimes say, here's the non negotiable. Now here's what is negotiable. And I'm willing to look at your ideas or my ideas or, you know, whatever about that. And then the next two are really easy. Once you come to some new agreement or you recommit to the old agreement. Now we're going to clarify what we just agreed to. And my, my great recommendation here is that you a, don't skip this step because it's easy to think you're done because you reached a new agreement. Right. It's easy to go, yay, we did it and walk away. But I would just beg you to remember that you are actually not done. And you likely both heard it differently. Yeah, like 99 of the time in conflict, people heard the resolution differently. And so it creates this downstream. This doesn't work because you get downstream and they're not doing what you thought you agreed to. And then you say, well, none of it worked. Right. So example of that.

There's a. I've listened to quite a bit of content from an entrepreneur couple, Alex and Leah Hormozi. He talks about one of the first times he realized how important this clarify piece was was when he started sending team members to trade shows to represent his organization. And he's like, I thought I communicated so clearly. I told him like, you go to that trade show, I need you to be upbeat. I need you to be outgoing and charismatic and, like, talk with everyone. And he's like. He's like, so he was sending people and not getting the results that he was able to get when he was there. And he's like, oh, well, they just must, like, stink. Like, they're not following my instructions. And he said, he went, you know, and the feedback he got from his team was, oh, yeah, like, man, like, I was. I was definitely outgoing. I was definitely trying to talk to everyone. And he said. Then he finally, like, went and got a chance to observe. And luckily he's smart enough to not, like, blow up in the moment. Yeah, he realized there was actually. So he set this expectation, didn't clarify. So he thought it was very clear. But then he realized, oh, wow, there's a gap in what they interpreted as charismatic, outgoing, talk to everyone. Like, the individuals that he was sending, he realized, oh, well, like, they've never done this before and they don't know even, like, what to ask people or where to take the conversation. And so them going to a conference and talking to 15 people, they're like, man, that was a lot of people.

I talked with when there were thousands there. Right, right.

So he realized, like, oh, wow, like, they thought they were doing what I wanted. But then as soon as he took time to clarify and help guide them into what he was doing to create the success that he wanted them to be able to replicate and, like, enjoy. Like, really enjoy, because it's fun. When you go and have successful success.

Yes.

All of a sudden things change dramatically.

So because it's very subjective, when you say talk to a lot of people, well, your definition of a lot and my definition of a lot may be very different. Right.

So five people, like, kills me. I'm done.

For an introvert, you know, that that's. That's a. That's a large number of people. For an extrovert, that's a minuscule number of people, you know, so it's very subjective. And. And on top of that, in conflict, emotions are often high and they keep us from really getting to and hearing the specifics. I contest that the only way you ever really can check the box you were clear is if the other person can repeat back the expectation to your satisfaction. If that cannot, if that does not happen, then you are just assuming or guessing that you are clear. And so it's very important to get that clarity. And. And also I. I will say, you know, I. I say everything is a test. Every new agreement or recommitment to an agreement, when you leave it, you're going to. You're essentially testing it because you don't yet know if you solved it until you do. Right. So when you leave it, I. So I'll say to the person, so I believe everything that we decide is a test. So when do we want to come back together to see if the test worked? Because you wouldn't want to just keep going if it's not working. You wouldn't just want to. No, you know, you want to come back and go, okay, that didn't work. Let's try again. Let's do a new. A new agreement. So I. So someone will say, well, sure, let's check in in a couple weeks. Right? Vague. So I say, okay, what day? Well, you know, I don't know. Next Thursday, Friday, 14th or 15th? I'll say, well, the 14th or the 15th. Yeah, let's do the 14th because I'm not working on the 15th. Okay, what time on the 14th? Let's just do the morning before work starts. What time in the morning? Oh, eight or nine. Eight or nine, like, literally. And who's going to put it on the calendar? When are you going to do that? Would you like for me to do it today? You know, like, if you don't do that level of specificity, it will just drift off into the ether and nothing will change. So you've got to get specific and got to get clear. And then last, the H stands for hope. Tie this beautiful conversation up with the bow of gratitude, a bow of optimism. Say, I. I'm. I'm. I'm excited about our new agreement. I think it's gonna work. I, I'm, I feel really positive about it. And if it doesn't, we'll come back together and we'll try again. I'm really grateful for you. I'm grateful for the conversation, especially if it was a hard conversation, especially then. You wanna say, I know this wasn't easy, and I want you to know I appreciate your willingness to stick in it, stay in it and see it through. It means a lot to me. Just whatever in your personality, some gratitude and optimism to leave it on this bow of hopefulness and so you can see, like, it's not really that hard. And the more you do it, the easier. I'm like, I don't have to look at anything to do it now. I know the process, but I teach it all day, every day to leaders, to managers. You know, there's a lot of New. They're not maybe new to the industry, but they might be new to leadership. And I don't know if you've seen this, Stephen, but in the past, office managers, team leaders, if they're a hygiene team lead or something like that, maybe they're a clinical lead in a larger practice. They've often are filling more of an HR role. Who's going to be on vacation and do we have them covered? And you know what, it's like an HR function versus an actual leader. A leader is very clear what we need to accomplish over the next 12 to 24 months. And they know the skills gap that their team has. And they are a good coach for their team members in coaching and up, leveling their skills and performance. And they're good at that. They're good at getting in there with these courageous conversations. Getting in with coaching conversations. We teach a three conversation leadership tier. So you start with an invitation conversation. You invite the person into your vision, into your values, into your standards. You invite them. They come willingly. Nobody's forced. I don't. I'm not the kind of leader that demands anything of anybody. I invite you in and you choose whether you come into my world. And if you come to work the next morning, you have essentially raised your hand and said, I sign up for that. I sign up for that coaching. I sign up for that push, I sign up for that work. I sign up for that growth. I do. Nobody's forcing me. And so we teach leaders how to have the invitation conversation. Once they have that, now they need coaching conversations. Coaching where we're not telling we're coaching. And so we teach them how to have a coaching conversation so they grow their, their people's skills. What? But occasionally you've grown their skills and they're still, for whatever reason, not doing it. And so where we have to have a courageous conversation where we set a boundary or we, you know, but we still want to do it and uplift, uplift the relationship. So I'm of the mind that I want to have courageous conversations that solve the problem and enrich the relationship, lift people up. I want people to feel uplifted at the end, not beat down. And so there is a way to do that. And I think these new managers that don't just want to be an HR function, need and want and would benefit from leadership communication training so that they see themselves as their team's coach and champion and they know how to shine and help their team members shine. And that takes communication training. That's what that is.

Well, Catherine, I want to make sure I say this before we get. We get too close to finishing. This was gold. I don't know if other listeners are the same as me, but as I went through this arch process, you know, or this art framework for having conversations, I couldn't help but think about very specific situations in my career or with my people where I was thinking that would be so helpful. And even some, some like self reflection where I'm like, oh, that would have been, that would have been nice a week ago to have those ideas in part of the A, you know, where you were asking some of the questions like how can I appreciate this person? Specifically the where do we agree? I thought that was really thoughtful and I think is a classic and not but and then moving into the R. Am I going to make a request or am I going to resolve? Like that's a really thoughtful way to approach, you know, like do we have an expectation yet or do we not? And then of course clarifying and then ending. Ending with hope. I'm obviously a big advocate for like yes, of course. Who's not positive human. Be nice to each other and the world to be a better place. And it just feels more genuine when you finish that way where you're like, thank you like for having this conversation and I'm excited for the path forward.

Yeah.

You know, I hate to say that all things are sales. There's maybe a little bit of there, you know, like you gotta, you gotta give someone excitement to go do this thing and try this.

People want to feel hopeful. There's so much of a lack of hope on social media and on, on, you know, your television feed and just. It's like we can do better there. There is so much conflict out in the world right now. Don't you think it's almost epidemic that people can have. It's almost seems like an epidemic of an inability of people to have differing views or differing opinions and to do it with dignity, with love and kindness and still hold. I'm not saying back up your standard. I'm not saying don't hold your standard. I'm saying hold it and do it in a way that uplifts people that why are they mutually exclusive and respects them and always remembers that everyone is at choice in this country. Everyone is at choice. No one has to work for you. No one has to do what you tell them to do. And we don't have to have someone working for us. We all have choice. And so if we never lose sight of this person has a choice. I'M not forcing them. I'm not demanding them. And I want to remind them that I respect their choice. I respect their ability to choose. My job is just to make sure that they're choosing from clear choices, from clear expectations. So my job is to clear them up. This is negotiable. This is not negotiable. And I'm inviting you to make the choice that fits you the best, that is good for you. I'm not forcing you. And if, if you choose to do something else, then I will, of course, I will respect that and I will support it. I just want, you know, I'm hoping you're going to stay. I'm hoping you're going to say yes to this expectation. I believe you can do it. I'll be your biggest champion. And your support. It's your choice, you know, and when you, when you communicate from that platform, you respect people, you honor people. And it, it, it just demonstrates a way that they're not going to get this demonstration on social media or on, or on the news, you know, they're going to get it from leaders like us who spend a little time to learn how to do it. Our parents didn't tell us, so we're gonna go get it ourselves and we're gonna, we're gonna communicate at a higher level. And that's the best way you can teach your people to do it with each other.

Yeah.

They say managers spend 40 to 50% of their time currently solving problems for people they should be able to solve for themselves, but they don't know how to do it. Imagine if you could buy a piece of technology that would get 50% of your manager's time back to work on the challenges of the business. And they say the average employee spends four hours a week either in a conflict or thinking about it. That's two weeks a year for every employee every year. So imagine if, again, if you could bring in something or buy something that would get two weeks of focus back for every employee every year and get 40 to 50% of your manager's time back and conflict and courageous conversations, training can get that back for you.

Yeah, I agree with that. The marginal gains just from keeping the team moving and working are, are going to have a huge impact across cultures, everything across the whole career, you know.

Across your career and culture's everything right now. Employees have big choices right now. So if you're an employer or a manager and you don't want to deal with this constant revolving door, it is so, so hard on a business. You have to get serious about your culture. And culture is driven by communication, how you communicate. And so how you communicate the invitation, how you communicate, coaching and how you communicate in conflict is what creates a culture. It is. And so, you know, th. Those are the teams people want to work for and they, they'll stand in line for that practice and they'll run from the others. And they can right now. They can because they have choices. So. Yeah.

Well, Catherine, time flies when you're having.

I know, I know.

Time flew by. I'm totally cool with doing a little longer episode here. I think this was so valuable to listeners, listeners out there. I will make sure that I get from Catherine that Arch download that she mentioned.

Absolutely.

I definitely want to check that out. So I'll throw that in the show notes. So if you're driving, you don't have access now definitely come back to the episode, jump in the show notes. You'll see a link there. I'll also put a link to Catherine's website, lionspeak.net yes.net. not.com net so that you guys can go and learn more from her. Check out some of her resources.

Yeah, absolutely. And if they want to shoot an email@infolionspeak.net if you, if you can't get the link or the QR code for some reason, just shoot us an email infoionspeak.net and we'll send that resource to you.

Perfect. Well, Catherine, it has been a gift. We could. Sounds like we could probably do a whole two year series on content here. But this was awesome.

I'm so glad.

Arch. The Arch formula. I don't know what you call it. I've called it three different things.

Yeah, framework. Usually a framework, but there we go.

To have difficult conversations, courageous conversations. This is so. Thank you once again, Katherine, for joining.

Thanks for having me. This is an important topic. Thanks for valuing it. I think the world needs more leaders that know how to do this. And so thank you for, for bringing it to the spotlight for sure.

And thank you listeners for joining us again. This has been another episode of the Growth and Dentistry podcast. My name is Steve Jensen, the host and fellow data nerd.

Keep growing.