Improving Case Acceptance with Olivia Smith

The biggest thing I say is we don't talk money until I get case acceptance, meaning I want to make sure that one. We've educated the patient. There's a lot of cool technology out there nowadays. You know, I know Di has the automated follow up, which is really cool. In case they don't schedule, you can send videos to patients, right? Just making sure they fully understand what they're signing up for. So we're going to get that case acceptance beforehand. Ideally, like you said, they've heard it six or seven times before they even sit down with the treatment coordinator. Now when they're sitting down, the treatment coordinator, we are going over, okay, here's what this process is going to look like. What other questions do you have for me? And I'm tying it into what's most important to that patient. Right? Whether it's, you know, cosmetics or longevity or function or whatever is important to them. And then we're moving from there onto, okay, now here's what the total cost looks like.

This is Growth in Dentistry, a dental intelligence podcast where we ask the question, what, what does growth in dentistry mean to you? I'm Steve Jensen, a data dental nerd and your host. Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of the Growth in Dentistry podcast. This is your host, Steve Jensen. I am super excited for today's episode. Today we're going to talk into it's the problem of all time. How do I improve case acceptance? We're going to hit some industry trends. I think, folks, if you've been listening to the podcast, you've probably heard me say this, but over the last several years there has been, there's actually been a downtrend in case acceptance, both patient case acceptance and on the total dollars. So we're going to talk about super relevant. We're going to talk about how we can solve that problem. How can we make sure that we set patients up to say yes? And I have an absolute expert on with me now before I introduce Olivia and why I have, I'm having her join quick shout out to the marketing team at Dental Intelligence for sponsoring this podcast week after week. For those that haven't heard this before, Dental Intelligence is constantly releasing new products. In fact, there's a really cool new AI tool that they've released that a lot of people have totally missed. So they released a new scorecards feature which allows you to go grab every metric you can think of inside of Di and put it in one single view exactly how you want to see it. But what most people don't know is that in that tool there's a little robot button you can click on. And it's an AI chat interface that allows you to ask questions about what's in that scorecard. So let's say you're a hygienist and you're like, man, I would just, I don't know data, I don't know spreadsheets. I just want something to tell me how I'm doing. You could just go ask it, like, hey, how am I doing? What was good last quarter and what could I work on? And it will analyze the data for you, or maybe a doctor, an office manager in a similar boat. It's super helpful. So if you want to check out and see what we're doing with AI and data, definitely check out a demo of Dental Intelligence. They'll give you a $50 gift card they'll you give just for doing a demo. And that link will be in the show notes. Okay, without any further ado, I want to get to the point. I want to introduce Olivia Smith. So welcome, Olivia, to the podcast.

Thank you, thank you. Excited to be here.

And for those, if you've never heard of Olivia Smith, she's up and coming. Okay. She's worked with over a hundred practices, so it's not like she's new. She's dental for just over 11 years, has background and degrees in marketing and business management. Like I said, worked with over 100 practices and for the last seven years has been coaching practices and helping them grow and be successful. And most recently has started her own consulting company called OS Dental Consulting. So super excited to have her join because in our conversations it became very obvious that she has a real skill specifically around this industry problem I'm seeing around case acceptance. So a of lot, Olivia. With that in mind, I'll ask kind of like my first level setting question. You've worked with practices across the country at this point in your career. What are some of the most common reasons why patients say no? Why cases don't get accepted or completed?

Yeah, and I think that first of all, I'm excited to be on here and kind of chat with you all. And I've worked with Dental intel for a while and absolutely love the analytics side. And I think that there is sometimes a discrepancy between what practices think their case acceptances versus what it actually is, which I know we're going to talk about a lot today, which I'm excited for, but I do think that it might be an unpopular opinion. But honestly, I think that patients, we're not Getting acceptance because we're creating barriers for our patients. We might not realize we're creating those barriers, but it's in, you know, I think that patients want treatment that they know is medically, especially medically necessary. Treatment like decay or infection. They want to take care of it, but sometimes we don't. You know, what does it look like? How easy is it to schedule in the practice? Do we have financial options that are easy for our patients? What does our follow up look like? What does our treatment plan process look like? And so usually I find that when patients are not accepting treatment, it's because we're not tying it to what's most important to them. And we're also not speaking their language as a team. So I think that that's the biggest thing is looking at our systems and really figuring out where are the gaps and where are we not getting the case acceptance and honing in on those. For sure.

Yeah, I, I, I totally agree. So what do you think? What are some of those common barriers that you see? Is it on like how the diagnostic side we're presenting, is it on the financial side? Like, what are some of the common ones that you see that you're like, oh, we got to go and tackle this. This is like a clear barrier.

Yeah. I mean, it varies for every practice. Right. So across the country, it could be completely different from one area or one individual practice to another. So that's where it's really important. And I, this is not just about dental intel, even though I'm a big dental intel fan, but when I talk about the analytics, it's so important to understand like the difference between dollars accepted versus, like the number of treatment plans. Right. They're two different case acceptances. I remember when I started out in dentistry, we weren't even thinking about the dollars, we're only thinking about the number. And we're like, oh my gosh, we got nine out of 10 treatment plans. They scheduled their resin only. We're winning today. Right. But then when you look at big picture, you're like, how is it that I have a million, over a million dol million or whatever, an outstanding treatment? It doesn't make sense. Everyone's saying yes, but they're not that.

Really quick so listeners can understand. So there are kind of the first metric and it's like, it's not a vanity metric, it's important. It's patient case acceptance, which is, hey, we present. It could be just, you know, like a 2:1,2 service filling all the way up to like a 15:20,000, $40,000 case. And if the patient schedules something from the case we presented, then that counts as as yet the patient said yes. Right. If they schedule anything. So we would. We would just. And. And To Olivia's point, that is, we present a treatment to 10 patients. What percentage of those patients got something scheduled, you know, to start this case? And we want that number to be high. It's pretty normal to see that number high. Like, I think the average practice is close to 80%. So it's pretty normal. Like, practices are good at getting something started. But then to Olivia's point was a lot of practices have no idea, like, what happens after that first clinical visit. And how effective are we at helping the patient move all the way through that case over the course of a year? And when we looked at the average practice after a full year of having a chance to complete was on that case. We're seeing case acceptance on the dollars be more like half. Right. So just under half of the dollars are actually getting done. So that actually brings us to, like, maybe a good question. Maybe. I don't know if you want to jump into, like, a story or if you want to give, like, some insight into what you think is driving kind of this trend where we are definitely seeing patients probably not as dramatically, but we are seeing patients saying slightly, yes, the dollars for sure is coming down. Do you have any thoughts on what might be driving that trend of patients saying yes less often?

Yeah. And to finish answering your question about the barriers, I think that the barriers that we're coming up against are not just the financial piece, which everyone says that, right? Like, our patients can't afford it, which is true in some aspects. But on the other hand, I feel like the biggest barrier is that we're just not speaking their language. We're not talking the same thing of what's important to them versus why they need the treatment. And then when you talk about that decline and why have things gone down, I think it's because we're so focused on maybe a limiting. Limiting belief of, okay, our patients are going to say no. They're going to say no because insurance isn't covering it. You know, and for that, I always ask my patient, my. My clients and my teams, like, what do you do for those insurances that they only cover diagnostics? Are you not presenting any treatment because insurance doesn't cover, like, what's the difference between that and a full treatment plan? So I think it's one understanding the need for treatment and then tying it in. But I also See them presenting treatment plans sometimes where our teams are going in, and for whatever reason, we're not presenting the entire case. We might be presenting one visit because we think, oh, well, let's just get them started on one thing. Which is definitely a tactic. But then what ends up happening is now every time the patient comes in, it's like a gotcha moment. Like, oh, and there's more and there's more. And what we see is, we see orthodontic practices are actually very successful because of the way that they present their treatment plans. It is. Here is an entire case, maybe it includes retention, maybe includes, you know, all those things along the lines. And we're going to talk to you about what that looks like. You might be here for a year, it might take six months, whatever. And here's how much money you have to invest in this process. And then we get them started and you get a wow them with that customer service every time that they come in the door. Versus a lot of my general practices really struggle with. Okay, we presented a treatment plan. I got you to say yes to that resin. Yay. And then now they're coming back and every single appointment feels like we're re enrolling them instead of just, you know, hey, here's your total plan. Let's get you financing, let's figure out all of it at once and then let's get you rolling and get all those appointments scheduled for you. And yes, if you're anxious, we're just going to start with the first one. But typically I find that that's the biggest barrier. And for some reason we've had this big shift and just removing that barrier for them and making it a pleasant experience for everybody. Get all that admin out of the way up front, the scheduling and the money.

Yeah, that example resonates with me. I'll just share with listeners like, so I got adore adult orthodontia when I was 26, 25. And the honest truth is I probably would have gotten it when I was 21. So 21. I was in college. I started dating my wife when I was 22 ish. But I had seen the same dentist at a national chain on St. Nate's that I was going to. I didn't know it was a, a massive, just massive dso. But I was going to the same place and the dentist was super nice and I was going to him for a long time and I have a peg lateral next to like a really big tooth. And then my bottom teeth were crooked and I kept having him Just like put some composite on the peg lateral to kind of build it up so that I didn't have this, like, gap. But I kept breaking it over and over. And so I kept paying like, you know, 100, a couple hundred bucks for him to just, like, keep fixing this, like, chipped, you know, composite on the peg lateral and kept breaking it and breaking it and breaking it. And he never once said. Talked to me about braces. Never once brought up, you know, the term occlusion to explain why I kept breaking my teeth in the middle of the night when I was grinding my teeth. Never even brought up the fact that I grinded my teeth. So it wasn't until years later I'm dating my wife, she's a dental hygienist. And one random choice. Yeah, oh, great choice.

One random night.

My wife, at the time, my girlfriend just goes, hey, did you know you grind your teeth at night? And I was like, whoa, we haven't slept together. Like, you know, how do you know that? And she's like, oh, no. I can just like see it on your teeth. Like, you definitely grind your teeth at night. I'm like, weird. You're staring at my teeth, but okay. And she. And she brings it up. She's like, hey, I noticed you have like a chip on that tooth. And it's because, like, your. Your bite's not, like, is not great. Like, it's causing, you know, unusual wear. So she grabs a mirror and she starts like teaching me like classic hygienists do, I think. And we were far enough in our relationship, it didn't weird me out. But I go back to my dentist, I go back to this dentist and I just ask him, I'm like, hey, like, I'm dating this girl. And she said that if I got braces, it would, like, help with occlusion. And something about, you know, me chipping this tooth was because of that. And he was like, oh, yeah. And he straight up says, oh, yeah, but you were a poor college kid, and I just figured you wouldn't say yes. And I was like, no, dude. Like, yeah. Two things. One, to explain, like, kind of what the long term impact was of me leaving my teeth as is because my wife showed me, like, I have several teeth with, like, permanent wear on them because I didn't have a night guard. And from poor occlusion that, like, man, I would have. If someone would have said, like, hey, you want to keep your teeth for a lifetime to avoid implants and dentures longer term, I would have been like, okay, that makes sense to me. And then two, if he would have broken down finances, braces actually is not that crazy when you start to break it up into payments and it's like, oh, yeah, I can do. At the time, I think it was going to be like 150, 160 bucks a month, where it's like, oh, I can do that. So as soon as I was in my mid-20s and someone actually took the time to present to me in a way that made sense, and then in a financial way that made sense, I said yes immediately, but it took years. So it's like this, this sad example where a lot of times I think people can be inhibited because they believe, you know, in my example, a poor college kid, right? And they might not present the full treatment plan or they might. They might be worried about finances. But, man, I think if you have an attitude where, like, you just believe investments in self are always worth it and that patients deserve to know what the best treatment options are, man, that's probably going to take you far. Sorry, that was a long, like, rabbit.

Hole, but no, it was great. It was great.

I'm going to let you. I'm going to let you keep talking.

No, it was great. And I think you touched on so many great things there, right? Which is one, that our energy, when we go into a treatment plan really matters, right? If we believe that the patients need the treatment and that they deserve the treatment, then they are going to be more excited to get it and more likely to get it. And so that energy that we bring in is really one of the pieces when we talk analytics, that is really cool, is we can actually track how much diet we're doing diagnostically? So it is important for a dentist to understand, hey, am I the roadblock? Am I the one here who maybe is too nervous about treatment and I have to overcome my own things before I can really be comfortable presenting? And, you know, and the team might have to work with their doctor and say, hey, like, you're. You're the one talking the patient out of treatment, not us. Can you, like, you know, work on our verbiage? But it really does come down to the verbiage and making sure, you know, when you think about how we are in such society now that is so driven by payments, especially younger generations, like, how much does that cost a month in the subscription generation we're called, then you have to start speaking their language. So what does that look like in CareCredit? There's lots of other financing companies out there that do a Great job. Where when you present a treatment plan instead of presenting it, you know, always present the total amount. Make sure they're, they know they're responsible for the total. If you're filing insurance as a courtesy, make sure you're really clear on that. What, they might get a bill if it doesn't cover all of it. But then also, hey, here's what this looks like. We can help you finance it for as low as X dollars a month, you know, and then work backwards from there and help them figure out what works for them. So, yeah, definitely important.

Can I ask you maybe more of like a process question? I think sometimes, you know, I'll get feedback from audience members who are like, hey, I would love, I would love to hear some like systems oriented content within the story. So do you mind sharing? You know, you have some really good experience that this is, you know, I know from you it's not just clinic, it's not just like business. Like, yes, we want to like make sure the business is healthy and making money. But I know from your perspective, Olivia, it's also like clinical making sure that we have good systems to ensure like clinical consistency and the patients are getting like the best clinical work. Can you maybe kind of talk me through like, kind of the ideal case flow and like what you're maybe measuring to understand where the brakes are. And then if you have any examples where it's like, hey, like, here's an example, I went and worked with this practice and kind of here's how I found the breaks and then, you know, in the system and here's how we work to improve them and what that meant for the business and patients. That would be super cool.

Yeah, definitely. So kind of a multilayer answer here. But yeah, for the. When it comes to case acceptance and what we're looking at, it's not just as simple as, okay, how are we presenting a treatment plan? And when we. Anytime I look at systems, I always tell teams like, let's get super curious first and let's dive in if there's a number behind it. I want to like, know how you're presenting treatment plans. What information are you pulling up? What does your follow up look like? But then sometimes it causes me to go back to the beginning. How are we scheduling? How are we screening our phone calls? How are we scheduling our patients? What's that new patient experience look like? Are we bringing them back for a consult? Sometimes I find that I'll work with a doc and I find out that again, not to pick on our doctors. Because I love them. But you know, sometimes it's the doctor like and it's not just the doctor, it's the scheduling. So maybe the doctor has a case on their desk for three weeks and we're not getting the patient in, we're not closing the gap between treatment plan process and treatment plan presentation. And now all of a sudden the doctor is, has an extra stress on their shoulders and then our scheduling's a mess because we're booked out so far. Right. So figuring out like what, what system is really the cause of the, the breakdown in that case? Acceptance. First we look at the numbers and then we dive in deeper and look at the process. And I usually ask a lot of really open ended questions and just get really curious. And again, it's not a blame on any individual doctor, treatment coordinator, hygienist, assistant. There's not one person that is affecting this process. It's a team process. And then from there, yeah, I've had the honor of working with teams across the country and I still work with teams across the country and have really focused in and worked on those processes. And I've had doctors where we implement lab case management to help them with consults and we've seen a huge increase. I've had teams that we just implemented like a follow up process like on DI and we're able to track and they get competitive with their case acceptance and have some fun with it. And there's a lot of different ways we can, we can focus and hone in and update that process. But usually my biggest successes are like, you see that 15 to 20% increase in a month and you're like, you know, this feels good, but more not just the money, because the money's fun. If you're a numbers nerd, it can be really fun. It's also like these are lives you're affecting, right? These are. Think of all the patients that you're helping get the care that they need and deserve.

So the follow ups, rewarding the follow ups. One, since I'm like a DI nerd, makes sense to me. Like setting up a system of accountability where we make sure that we get these automatic reminders that these cases don't fall through the cracks and we can kind of see efforts to follow up on them. Will you tell me so that, that one I get. I want, I want you to tell me about the lab one you gave. So tell me about that, that system. That's interesting.

Yeah. So I had a doctor who was really struggling. This was a few years ago. They were really struggling with lab cases, and he was doing more comprehensive dentistry. And so he would be doing like all on fours or like a large veneer case or something where there's multiple layers to the treatment plan. And he needed a CT beforehand, and then he. In diagnostic models, and then he would need like a week or two to think through the process and really make sure that when we presented the treatment plan that he had all of his eggs in a row or ducks in a row, not eggs in a row. And so during that process, what we found out was it was like, hey, for one, you're not blocking admin time on your schedule. You have no time to work on this, and you're here past late every night. So it really became a scheduling issue. Once we worked through that, it was figuring out, like, what do your meetings look like with your treatment coordinator every week? How are you? Who's accountable for these consults? Making sure that you're prepared and holding you accountable. Dr. To getting this done on time. And then really up our treatment coordinators that our treatment coordinators should be co diagnosing with the doctor, really helping them and thinking from the patient's perspective of what are any of the questions that I need to be able to answer in that treatment plan? Like, if we're looking at it and it's comprehensive and there's missing teeth, why are we not replacing the missing teeth? Doctor, is there a reason? You know, we're not challenging the doctor, we're helping them and helping the patients to see if there's anything missing. So that treatment consult can be really high, you know, in depth and very, very productive.

Yeah, that, that is. That's a fascinating story, and I think for listeners, that probably will resonate more now than ever. One of the other trends, you know, I've been watching is general dental practices have started to take on more and more advanced procedures within general dentistry. So we're starting to see, not like, it's not like. It's like some huge, you know, wave of collapse of specialty, but we're seeing a lot of. Of specialty codes start to come into general practices. And that's a combination of general dentists expanding their capabilities within the business. We're also seeing general dentists bring in specialists into the practice for visits. You know, so they'll come in and they'll have, you know, an oral surgeon come in, if they're equipped for that, you know, for a certain amount of time, or an endo or a specialist come and treat patients certain days of the month. So that's certainly also a trend that's happening where they're bringing, bringing them in. So that's really interesting to think. Okay. As we're starting to make some of those adjustments to the business, if we want to advance the types of cases we're doing, that also means that the way we do treatment planning and presentation might need to evolve with us as well. So that's a thought. Olivia, I hadn't really like necessarily all the way wrapped my head around that you bring up. Interesting.

Yeah, for sure.

So tell me how about this? Like, can we kind of talk through team member roles? I think one of the things that is super critical in the case acceptance process is sometimes, you know, there might be like the classic Spider man meme where it's like we're both pointing at each other because we both think they're responsible. Yeah. Having like clear accountability on who's responsible for what in this patient journey is super important. Can you kind of talk through how you envision different team members? Like, what's the ideal? And then maybe even speak to like a small team because sometimes you might have, you know, a smaller reduced team. Maybe talk to like the ideal and then maybe a reduced team for, you know, treatment planning and accountability.

Yeah. So I work with teams. When I work with practices, it's very customized. Right. So it's based on the individual team that will look different for every single team, whether it's large or small. But what we really focus on are tasks. Right. Like, so what are all the tasks that need to be done in a practice? Ideally, you usually have somebody within that role. But I also work with practices to help them define at what point do we need to add more team members or at what point do we need to watch our growth and expansion. That's another barrier. Sometimes for case acceptances, I'll find, oh, the doctors and the clinical team are killing it on their side. But then we're short admin team members and nobody's there to do the follow ups. Right. So when we talk about what does that team member look like? Obviously we need somebody responsible for each part of the process. So when we're, you know, it starts with the first phone call. How are we getting our. Well, it starts with marketing, then with the first phone call and how are we introducing the patients and what information are we getting so that we're speaking to what's most important to that person. If they're listing that whitening is most important to them and we bring them in and we start talking about endo on, you know, Posterior teeth. And we're, we're diving into some things and we don't even touch on whitening. And they're basically, you know, telling you from day one that esthetics are important to them. But we're not talking esthetically. You've lost this patient, right? They might see now you, you're a chore. Instead of, I really want a bright white smile. And that's my goal. Right? So making sure that we're tying it in from the first visit and then that dives into the clinical exam with the hygienist, the hygiene exam. And then what does that look like when the doctor comes in? How are we speaking to their needs and, and really treating them comprehensively? And then when we hand off, what do our handoffs look like between team members, between the doctor and the team and the patient. And then that final treatment presentation and the follow up process. And that could even include meetings with doctors weekly to, with the treatment coordinator and the doctor to make sure like, you know, hey, here's where we're at in case acceptance. Maybe we're struggling with something and they might say, oh yeah, that patient was really not on board. Maybe we could get them in for a consult. Right? Like offering solutions and being collaborative. So I think when you talk about what role do team members play, it's going to vary so much. But it's really just making sure that every single office has, have all of those roles covered, right? Like who in, who in the practice is covering the phones and the follow up and insurance verification. If we're using insurance, how are we doing our handoffs and our presentations and remembering that a patient needs to hear something five to seven times before it fully. Not just a patient, any human needs to click in our brains. And so that's so important, right? So when we, we do our handoffs, they're probably one of the most vital parts of that patient experience and case acceptance that some practices just miss the mark on because Dr. Will be like, oh, I said it in the room, I thought that they heard me. And they get that patient amnesia.

While you're hitting it, let's dive into the handoff. Can you talk me through, can you talk me through a successful handoff and the common like failures there? Let's hit that.

Yeah, for sure. So ideally with a handoff, we're talking about, we're recapping not only what we did today, but also what's coming up and what is priority and then what the patient can expect in that next visit. Right. And then in A great handoff. And you want to always provide some form of, you know, hyping up your next team member to build that trust. Because remember, a lot of patients, depending on their personality type, there are a lot of patients out there. That relationship is very important for them. But also for our more analytical, you know, members of society, they need that credibility as well. So if I were to hand off to somebody at the front desk and say, you know what, this is our insurance expert or a financial expert, she's going to be able to help you, he or she, you know, get the, get everything aligned. And that really goes a long way. But as far as that handoff, even between doctor and team member, it's got to be a dance, right? So it can't just be a one sided. I'm going to come up and throw out everything at you that we did today. It should be really, you know, collaborative like, you know, I, we did XYZ today. Doctor wants to see the patient back as soon as possible for this. We talked about how her goal is to get ready for her granddaughter's wedding and we're going to help her get on that timeline. But it's really important that we do this first. You know, we're tying in that emotional pole so they can use it as well. And then we're talking about, you know, here's next steps, here's what she can expect. We reviewed xyz, have a wonderful day, so and so is going to take great care of you. Right?

That happened chairside or is like the patient kind of standing and there's the three of you and the doctor's about to pass off to someone in the front office team and they're going to walk to either like a treatment planning room or like in my experience, I'm picturing it's like the, the office manager kind of doubles as treatment coordinator and she sits at a desk kind of just behind the front checkout, like off to the side. And so then they just kind of like walk me to there. So is it the handoff happening chairside or is it, or is the doctor walking to this treatment room and doing a handoff there?

So it really, really depends on the practice. Right? You're going to have small practices where they might have to have an office manager that we're walking up to and we're doing those things. Larger practices might have a treatment coordinator that actually sends in on the comprehensive exam with the doctor. So there's not as much of a handoff. But usually when I talk to teams, it's like, you're going to have to understand there are going to be about four to five handoffs that happen in one visit. Right. So when we get the patient from the front des desk, we're handing off any important information, like, hey, we've got Steven here today. He's a new patient. He's super excited to see you. He's all ready to go. You know, he did have some questions I reviewed and I put in there for you. Right. And then when the hygienist takes them back, there's going to be the handoff after the hygiene hygienist does their exam from the hygienist to the doctor. Here's what I found, here's concerns. And then Dr. Is going to have the opportunity to ask, you know, what other questions do you have for me? But we're not doing that behind closed doors. Right. We're not doing it in the hallway. We're not doing it in the bath, you know, in back in the break room. We're doing it in front of the patient because we want them to be involved. And then at the end of that appointment, the hygienist or assistant is confirming. Doctor, just to confirm and know. I probably have my notes. Perfect. This is more for the patient to hear. Dr. Just to confirm or hint, hint, doctor, you forgot to tell me urgency. How soon would you like to see Steven back for that root canal on number three? You know, and that way the patient can hear it, and then you're walking before you walk them up. Okay, let's go up front. Let's get you scheduled back for that root canal on number three. Then I walk you up to the front. All right, I've got Steven here. We're going to get him back for that root Canal Number 3 as soon as possible. Yada, yada, yada. And, you know, here's why. He, you know, he wants to keep his teeth for a lifetime. And we talked about how important it's going to be to make that happen. Right. So that handoff is so vital. And it's. It's going to be about you know, four to five times in that treatment process and understanding that the entire team is part of it, not just the doctor or the hygienist.

Yes. And I think. I think they say that people need to hear something multiple times before they, like, understand it and they're on board.

Yeah.

Also very clever from that perspective. Like, just making sure the patient hears it over and over and over again in their minds are like, oh, yep, that is the path we're going to take. And then it says it to the next person and they're like, oh, yep, that's what we're going to do. Yeah, that's. That's very smart. So the handoff. Thank you for talking me through. Through that. Well, then maybe. Okay, so we've kind of been through some of the diagnostic stuff like you mentioned. We're looking at kind of doctor diagnostic habits. We're looking at patient case acceptance. We're looking at treatment dollar case acceptance. We talk through lab management. We talked about maybe a system for team members to follow up. I'm trying to think if there's any like, loose ends. Oh, financial conversations. So do you have, you know, how do we think about approaching that financial conversation? Can you give us some advice? Because that's another key element of case acceptance is, you know, do you start with seeing if they can just pay out of pocket and then go to financing? Do you start with financing? Can you kind of talk us through what you've seen work really well from a patient perspective? Okay, cool.

Yeah, for sure. The biggest thing I say is we don't talk money until I get case acceptance, meaning I want to make sure that one. We've educated the patient. There's a lot of cool technology out there nowadays. You know, I know DI has the automated follow up, which is really cool. In case they don't schedule, you can send videos to patients. Right. Just making sure they fully understand what they're signing up for. So we're going to get that case acceptance beforehand. Ideally, like you said, they've heard it six or seven times before they even sit down with the treatment coordinator. Now when they're sitting down with the treatment coordinator, we are going over, okay, here's what this process is going to look like. What other questions do you have for me? And I'm tying it into what's most important to that patient. Right. Whether it's, you know, cosmetics or longevity or function or whatever is important to them. And then we're moving from there on to, okay, now here's what the co, the total cost looks like. Right. So I am a big fan of when you print the treatment plan, have the total available for them. Not an a la carte option where they can pick, okay, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that. Make sure you have clear notes about what does that process look like. Like if we're doing an implant, for example, a lot of practices or general practices are doing implants. Now what does that process look like or even if you're just restoring the crown, we're going to bring you back about six, three to six months after the implants placed. Do the impression for the pre, you know, prefab and the crown. And we're going to go ahead and, and do that next step. So just being really clear in your instructions. And then when it comes to the financing part, that's where again, we talked a little bit earlier, but I'm a big fan about, here's your total portion that you're responsible for, here's what your insurance is estimated to cover, and here's your estimated portion that we're going to go ahead and collect from you. If for whatever reason they don't pay that portion, you will be getting a bill from us. Right. That way they're not like, what the heck, I got a bill. We can't. I always tell patients like, you know, if I could make insurance do what I wanted, I'd be a very happy woman. So, you know, just have fun with your patients, but explain the process to them. And then, yes, I always start with the total amount. Take a breath. Don't. It's going to be an uncomfortable pause. I always tell my teams when I'm training them, get comfortable with the uncomfortable. Let them tell you no first before you jump into, okay, well, here I can break this down into, you know, a few monthly payments, right? So let them. Let them say no to you. And then you can break it down into, you know, we also have other financial options. Like, you know, we offer financing as low as X amount per month. With CareCredit, it is a credit card that. Or whatever financing option you're using. But I am a big fan of signed financial agreements the day of the treatment plan, because otherwise you're just playing a guessing game. You don't know if they have the finances to cover it versus if we go ahead and take care of it all. Collect payment, get them scheduled. It's a much more pleasant experience. And you're not chasing a patient for that.

Yeah, I like that because. Because I've been in sales a lot. I would also say, you know, you said let them say no, but I'd say, hey, make the pause and let them say yes.

Like, exactly, let them say yes. Sorry.

Oh, no, you're great. There are so many times where we might come into a conversation believing someone might say no and then be surprised where it's like, oh, wow, like, they just. And they can just pay for the full case right now. Like, they might just pull out their credit card. Yeah. Let's just get squared away and let's, let's do it. Like I, my health is that important. You guys have done a great job. But of course, like I think realistically me acceptance numbers for sure, like are you going to get, you know, knowing full well, you know, I'm looking at the trends that like, it's not, it's not unusual. Especially if you're doing higher dollar cosmetic work, it's not unusual to see the treatment, dollar acceptance into like the low 30 percentile, you know. Yeah, so, so yes. Am I going to hear no often and then need to go into a financial conversation around payment plans, financing. Certainly that's going to be the case. But like I like having the attitude of like, hey, when you just shut your mouth and then let the facial talk, you would be surprised because they might naturally say, I can't do that right now. Do you guys have any financing? They might start bringing it up all on their own without exactly that path. And then if they're the ones that give the option, like, hey, do you have any financing options? Then you look like the good guy at that point, you know, so you don't feel like hugging them along.

Exactly. I'm a huge fan. Of course. Assume that they're going to schedule, but then let them be the ones to object. Don't. Sometimes I see teams where they go in right away and they're like, oh, here's our, here's our total. Okay, so we have these payment options. It's like, no, what if we, we want them to pay in full in cash. Right. So let them know we take cash, check card, hsa. Let them be the ones to be like, I'm not sure, you know, let's do something different and assume that they're going to do it because they'll feed off that energy for sure. And my all time favorite question is, may I ask you what's holding you back from the treatment that you need? Right. Like if they're not telling you, don't be scared to put them on the spot and say, may I ask you what's holding back? Otherwise you're never going to get past that barrier and know really why they didn't schedule.

The HSA is one that like I forget about has a dentistry. Like, I'll feel, I still sweat. My wife's gotten after me like three times because I just paid it the credit card and she's like, what are you doing? Why didn't you use the, the HSA money? Which, you know, context, like I'm in threads because we have a, you know, a high deductible plan. And so we have hsa. And. And it's funny, we have a whole Slack thread of people talking about all these cool things you can go buy with your HSA money. So it's not like. It's not like there's nothing out there either. If that's something that you're aware of that this, you know, patient's plan has. They probably do have a nice little chunk sitting there in the HSA that they can use towards treatment. And so that's. Yeah, for some reason, I had never. I'd honestly never connected the dots in my. In my conversations around case acceptance with that little, like, pool of HSA money that's sitting in there, too.

So, yeah, I always tell teams to, like, think of it like you're the concierge at, like, a really nice hotel. Like, your job is not to talk them into treatment or, you know, sell anything to them. You are literally just educating them and presenting the options and helping remove barriers and make it a great experience. So I think if you shift your mindset into something, like, fun, it doesn't feel, you know, gross or weird when you're asking for money. But I always do encourage team members. If you really feel that way and it's super uncomfortable, talk to your. Talk to your team, because maybe that's not the role that you shine in the best on the team, and maybe another role would be better. But, yeah, I do think that most. Most people out there are really better suited for it than they think. They just got to get in the.

Right mindset for sure now. Time has flown. I can't believe we're already at the end here.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Olivia, I ask every guest the same question, which name was a podcast? So I'd love to hear your answer to the question, what does growth in dentistry mean to you?

Yeah, I think that it has changed a lot. And everybody I talk to, it's like, over the last two years, it seems dentistry has just. I think with AI and technology, there are so many more people in the marketplace and new companies in the marketplace. There used to be, like, what, like, three competitors or, you know, when it comes to dental analytics, now there's like a hundred. And so I think that we are trending more to where not just client, not just practices, but our patients expect more technology, they expect more efficiencies, and to be able to do things better but still deliver that high quality care while on the opposite side of it. I really do think that people are leaning in more towards relationships and authenticity. They know when, you know, somebody is giving them BS and they just really want to be able to trust their doctors. But also they, they are self educating themselves. We're in the land of social media where people are flying across the. I see people fly across the country to go see dentists just for veneers or for cosmetic work. And I'm like, I know where you're located. I could send you five amazing doctors in your area. But they just don't know because we're not marketing or representing ourselves to our patients in the right way or letting them know all that we do. So I definitely see some growth and I think it's really going to be interesting to watch how it unfolds and how we have to adapt and continue to grow and with all the challenges in dentistry today. But I think that it's exciting because you just have more and more people that really care about comprehensive care and, and treating the patient and doing the right thing. So I think it's gonna be great.

I love that. Yeah. And the future, the future is bright and, and you're right, I think that we will have a lot of really interesting shifts. This is not dental, but I just had a buddy broke his foot over the weekend and sent the X ray in the group chat and two of us independently went and uploaded it to chat. GPT said, hey, what's going on here? And. And it successfully highlighted the three different places where he broke his foot. And we compared against what the doctor did. Nailed it. Where like, it's fascinating.

Yeah.

So cool. I even, you know, maybe I shouldn't. I don't know how people feel about this, but I've got a little 8 month old baby who had been showing signs of teething chips and teeth coming in. But then after a nap her eyes were like extra puffy and so we weren't sure if there was like an allergic reaction. So I took a picture of her face, explained all the teething symptoms and said, here's what we're worried about. But like, you know, is there anything I need to be concerned about knowing that like her face looks like this? And it did such a good job at talking me through. Hey, you know, here's what you should do. Here's what we recommend. If, you know, you get through, you know, to tonight and you haven't seen any reduction in the swelling or it gets worse, then go talk to your doctor, you know, but that can be a normal symptom of, of teething. If, if it's not that, here's what the potentials are and just be ready. So it like did such a good job at like coaching me through.

Yeah, it's wild, man.

Like, I just think, I think people are going to get more and more clever to your point with like self educating and then it becomes more and more about their connection with us and their relationship with us on that personal level anyway. So I do think we're, we're, we have an exciting future ahead of us in dentistry and in healthcare and anyway, Olivia, I love your answer. Thank you for joining us today. It's been awesome.

Yeah, thank you for having me. It was a lot of fun.

And for folks that want to reach out to you, what's the best way to do that if they want to connect and chat?

Yeah. So you can check out my email. It's osdental consulting.com or you can even send me an email if you like. Olivia S. Dental consulting.com I'm always happy to answer questions or even do a free practice analysis and, and see where the opportunities are with your practice.

I and I'll throw for those listening. I'll have those in the show notes. So website osdentalconsulting.com and then email Olivia S. Dentalconsulting.com I'll throw those in the show notes and I'll just highlight sounds like you said you'll do like a consult with them where you can review what's going on. Okay, cool. That, that's super. So definitely take Olivia up on that. If you're like, man, I would love some help with our case acceptance processes. You can clearly take. She's an expert. Well, thank you again, Olivia for joining and thank you listeners for joining. This has been another episode of the Growth and Dentistry podcast. My name is Steve Jensen, your host. We'll talk soon. Keep growing.