Swingers, Sex and Orgasms with "Accidental Swingers" hosts Myrina and Tristan

Swinger sex and orgasm. In this episode, I will be talking with the creator of the accidental Swinger podcast, Marina and Tristan, where they share tips on what swinger is like, what did they do but tips for better orgasm and how to overcome performance anxiety and a lot more golden nuggets. So stay till the end. I'll see you on the inside. This podcast is for you. The modern man. I'm Dr. Anne Truong, your host. I'm an intimate health medical doctor and best selling author of the book Erectile Dysfunction Fix. I'll do a deep dive into sexual health and performance and how it affects men of all ages and backgrounds. So let's get started and be sure to visit my website@sexualhealthformenpodcast.com for more information and resources from the show. See you on the inside. Well, hello everyone and Modern Man. Today I'm so excited because I have Marina and Tristan. They have been married for 27 years and they are the creator of the accidental Swinger podcast. And today we're going to talk with them about some of the pearls they've learned and their experiences as as swingers. So welcome Marina and Tristan.

Hi, thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

Oh, I'm so excited. I've been thinking about this episode for actually days and been doing a lot of research and the more research I do about it, I have a 10,000 other questions. But today, just for the podcast, I just wanted to limit to questions that I've always been wanting to know. So how did you guys get into swinging?

The really short version of that story is that we went out to dinner with neighbors in our neighborhood that we did not know were also living, they were living a swinger lifestyle and they thought that we might make perfect candidates to enjoy that lifestyle. And so they presented it to us and we decided to basically go for it. This is a very short version of this. It was about a six week process but we decided to go for it and, and try this ethical non monogamy thing for ourselves and we have really enjoyed it. It really has been a game changer for us in our relationship.

Yeah, absolutely.

What makes you decide, you know, to let's do this because that, that's a pretty bold move for, you know, for monogamous couple to be able to do that. And what would your concerns or challenges?

Well, it actually was somewhat accidental because when we went out with this couple for the dinner that Marina was talking about, at some point during the evening, we all kind of started making out with, with our, you know, Cross spouses. And we, that didn't, that kind of just arose without really any conversation. The conversation came afterwards when we were walking home after the date. And, and to be clear that that was all that happened on that particular date. But you know, that just the making out. But as we were walking home to through the neighborhood at 3:00 in the morning, we said what, you know, what the fuck just happened? You know, what, what was that? And we both said, well, we don't know, but that was a lot of fun. And let's, let's do that again. And so that's kind of how we started the conversation among, you know, between the two of us.

I think it's also though important to point out we had even talked about though some things when we were younger, when we were first dating and first engaged, we had talked about and actually when we were after the birth of our second child. So the conversation had come up a couple times during talk about fantasies like what would be fun to do. And actually one of the things we. HBO used to have a special called Real Sex that ought to date us for anybody who's. Because you can't find that show out anymore. But they used to have this show called Real Sex.

Yeah, I used to watch that and.

It was a great show. And it really, they highlighted a lot of these different things that we didn't know anything about. Very kinky and taboo and sex and you know, orgasms and sex toys. And they, one of the shows, they highlighted a place where people could go on vacation and basically have sex with other people. And then they went home and we thought, wow, wouldn't that be amazing to do that? So we had talked about that. But the most recent time had been about 16 years ago that we even had brought it up. And there was never the right time, never in the right place. It was always just a fantasy. It was a fantasy of something that would happen. But when the opportunity came up then to move forward with this couple in this particular lifestyle, we thought this is a way to kind of check out some of this fantasy that we had talked about in the years previous. So I think that probably was a little bit helpful why we were able to jump in a little bit more because we had talked about if this ever happened, wouldn't that be fun. But we never really pursued it at all and it wasn't on the radar. But I think that that softened it just enough for us to go, well, you know, we've talk about this before, so let's talk about it again. And Then that, that brought it all back up.

Yeah. It wasn't just completely out of the blue. You know, we had somewhat of a foundation, but probably not as solid of a foundation.

I mean, it was years and years ago.

Yeah. Probably should have talked about it more than we did, but when it first.

Started, we talked a lot, though, when we decided to move forward.

Yeah. After. Yeah.

Right.

Right. So, so, so then it started out with, like, kissing. And then. Do you, Are you concerned that if you, if Tristan, you see Marina. Marina, you feel jealous if he, if he or she is with another person?

No, actually, I find that very exciting. And I've always, that's always been a fantasy of mine to see Marina with, with other men and women and any combination. It's always been something that I've always wanted to, to see and to experience.

So, so even the first time that you see was exciting for you? There was no jealousy? No, no, no sense of jealousy whatsoever.

And we can talk more about jealousy, but as far as just, you know, watching the, the physical act, it's incredibly.

Erotic and exciting, and jealousy does happen. But I think what Tristan is basically saying is, like, that may not be the sex part.

Yeah, that's not the sex part.

That's not the part that causes the jealousy. It's the emotions that go around the sex part. If there start to happen to be emotions with other play partners, that's where jealousy will usually come in. Or, man, they're getting to do something more fun than I'm doing. So, you know, maybe you get jealous about that if they're doing something, you know, I don't know. But for us, that's more the jealousy piece versus the, the same thing where I, I, I don't necessarily watch Tristan have sex with other women. I don't. I, we have sex in the same room, usually with other couples, and I'll glance over and just kind of see, is he having a good time? That makes me happy. That makes me smile. I know he's giving her a good time, and so that makes me happy. That makes me smile. But I don't need to sit and watch it. So for me, that's not something that I find erotic or stimulating, but what I love is the fact that he's so happy, and that makes me feel amazing. It's an amazing gift to be able to give my husband, to have him be, have so much joy by being with other women and pleasing other women and those experiences that he has with them. And then we talk about them afterwards so I get to hear about it what excited him, what was great for him and things like that. So that can be fun.

Yeah, and. Exactly. And I'll echo that the other direction as well. I love when she's being pleased. I love when she's being fulfilled. It's very gratifying for me.

Do you actually see the partner that you're with afterward, outside of the party, in more social setting at all or that's like the one of the world you don't go beyond the party?

Yeah, I mean, often we do. We, you know, we see people because we're. We're more connection type people. And there are. We call them social swingers or sexual swingers. We consider ourselves more social swingers because we like to form friendships with people and see people multiple times. And, you know, we enjoy meeting and becoming friends with couples outside of the bedroom as well as in.

Interesting. So on that note, what is the difference between swinging open relationship and polyamory?

So that's a really good question. So an open relationship is one generally where the partners have decided to open their relationship. It doesn't necessarily define how many partners you have. So it could be that they. An open relationship, that they just have one extra partner, or they might be like we are in the swing community where we have multiple play partners. But again, even in the swinger community, there's different ways, as Tristan was saying, the social swingers versus the sexual swingers. It can be whatever anybody makes it. And so there are some people that just want to meet people, new people, have sex with them, and they don't want to see them again. And that's totally fine. That's how they want their relationship with the swinging lifestyle to be. And that's amazing. And that's what works for their relationship. That's great. We know that we are, as Tristan said, very connection oriented. And so I prefer actually getting to know the person, the people that we're with, because I think that increases the sexual, you know, intensity when you get to know someone and. And you friends with them or you're talking about. You can talk to your about your fantasies or you see them more than once and hey, next time, let's try this. So I like that piece of being able to do that. So an open relationship. An open marriage, though, doesn't necessarily define how many partners they have. It's just saying that. That they are free to go out and be with others. So swingers will generally. Then there's different ways that they swing. It could be couples with couples. It could be the male, female, male, the MFM relationship. Whereas a two women and a man dynamic, there's sometimes the two. Two men and a woman dynamic. There's a lot of different ways to mix and match, but all of that falls under the swinger umbrella, depending on what your relationship is. Then there's also what they call hot wifing. Something that we kind of define for ourselves is that I have, as the woman in this relationship, I have the right to choose my sexual partners. I invite Tristan, or maybe I don't. I go out on dates. If I choose to go out on dates, and I. And I have that ability, that's our relationship that we've decided. So if I meet someone and I want to go out on a date with them, and I schedule a date and I go out and we have sex, Tristan may not even be invited to come to that. Or I might ask him a second. You know, maybe he gets to come for the second date, or maybe he doesn't get to show up at all, and I just go get to be with this person by myself. So that's kind of called a hot wife piece. But there's just a lot of different variations. Polyamory, on the other hand, is where you really are making a relationship with another person or persons. So we happen to. In swinging, we never thought that this would happen for us, because being a polyamorous couple and finding another couple to be in a relationship is really, really hard. It's very hard to get four people to connect and relate to each other. So that's a very challenging dynamic. We happen to stumble into that. And so we actually have a polyamorous relationship with another couple. And to us, that means we share our lives together, we share our lives with each other. We don't necessarily share bank accounts or houses in the sense of we all live in our own separate houses, but we spend 50% of our time with each other at each other's houses. And our kids know each other and our families. We've turned it into our family dynamic. We go on vacations together. We, you know, have TV night at the house. You know, all of us with our. With our kids as well. And so that is what a polyamorous relationship is really, where you bring people and you're creating a life, and you're living a life with each other included. In swinging, you're not really doing that. Your friends, you're going out to dinner, you may have sex, whatever that works, or you're going out to a club or a party, but they're not necessarily part of your life. But in polyamory, those folks are there. It's part of your life. It's part of your dynamic. It's who you are.

Right. So what I hear you kind of do swinging and. And Lou and polyamory at the same time.

We. We do. And our dynamic is very different, and it's proving to be challenging because we were started to get with this couple right before COVID We were already all connected and things like that. When Covid hit, though, we all quarantined together, so to speak, and social bubbled together. So our relationship really had the opportunity to grow a lot stronger because there weren't other people around because of COVID And now, though we still are open swingers, we still have. We still go out and see other people. We tend to now do it all together as a foursome, where we all four will go to a party together. But. But everybody has their right to play with whoever they want. When we get to the party, there's no. There's no rules. The rules are that just don't leave the facility. Don't leave the building without telling somebody that you're leaving the building. That's really about the only rule when we're all together at a party or. But we always were trying to say, like, if you meet a couple that really. You really hit it off with, usually we all usually hit it off because we're all kind of the same. And so it usually ends up being a really fun. A group dynamic with usually two or three other, you know, one or two other couples, and it's a lot of fun.

Wow. So do you let, you know, everybody you meet know that you're swingers, or is that something you want to keep private? How do you. How do you kind of restrict that information if you do?

It really depends upon the context. And because we don't want to make people uncomfortable. And so now the fact is that most of the people we meet are swingers because that's who we enjoy being around. That's who we enjoy socializing with. Swingers are very open and fun people, and we're open and fun, and we enjoy meeting other open and fun people, whether we play with them or not. But if we're just out in what we call the vanilla world, just, you know, in regular life. No, we don't. We don't tell people. It's. As I said, we don't want to make people uncomfortable or kind of force our lifestyle on others.

But I will also say, though, we've gotten spoiled to where we live we live in a really liberal area, so to speak. Like, we're in the Tampa, St. Pete Clearwater area. And so when you go to St. Petersburg. St. Petersburg is a very eclectic relationship, rich with all sorts of types, and there's a huge gay and lesbian LGBTQ community down there. And so when. When we're in those kinds of places and spaces, it's very. It's. It's very easy for us to, like, I'm holding my boyfriend's hand, but I might be holding Tristan's hand at the same time, you know, or I'll kiss him, and then I'll kiss the other one, and. And down there, like, nobody even. No one even pays attention. They're just like, how are we splitting the check? We're just like, we'll split it down the middle. We don't. We're not. We don't keep score, you know, and so we've. We are very fortunate to be able to live this lifestyle in a place where we really can be more out in public. And so I think that we don't necessarily have to tell anybody. They figure it out, because usually they're like, I don't know who's married to who, and it doesn't really matter. Here's your, you know, whatever it is that you're doing. And people don't tend to care, but I think that's a lot of. Because that's where we live, and that's true.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

So I think. And I think we do kind of take that for granted.

Yeah, I can definitely see that. I think that, you know, at least where I live, that may not be the case. I live in a suburb of Virginia and in a small town, and, you know, so. But I do know there are swingers club here in my town as well, too, so. But people still whisper, oh, you know, they swing, you know, but it's not, you know, openly discussed. So I just wanted to give me a picture of, like, when you go to a swingo party. What. What. What's the steps? What the dynamic? What are the rules? And how do you know if that person wants you to, you know, want you to get together with them? What. There are your rules? Are there no rules?

Well, I don't know that we can cover all of this in this particular time frame for this particular podcast, but there are rules, and it. And it just. It really depends on where you are. So if you are at a party, that's a swinger party. So in other words, someone's having what we call a house party, and everybody's invited, and you can choose to hook up or not. Most people will. That's why they're there, there. And so it really is a flashback to all of those things you had to do when you were dating. Oh, it can be really hard. So it's like if you stand up against the wall like a wallflower, you're gonna be a wallflower. It's not. It's no different than it was in high school or college or anything else. So you have to learn how to talk to people. You have to learn how to put yourself out there. So how do you know if. If someone's interested you? It's the same way. You just feel a connection. Is there a connection or not? And then if you feel like there's a connection. Want to go upstairs? You want to take this conversation upstairs? You want to take this conversation to the bedroom, or do you want to go play? And when we. The terminology in the swinger community is when you say something, you're going to go play or you're going to go have a play date. That means you're going to go have sex or you're going to have a. You're creating. You're making a date to go have sex somewhere or do something. So you say, hey, you want to go play? That means, do you want to go back here and go have sex, you know, well, during this party or whatnot? But it can be. It is a flashback to all of that insecurity and tough social, you know, norms and personalities that you have to kind of pull out of your back pocket because you haven't had to do it probably in a really long time. If you've been married for 26 years, you're not. You're not flirting with anybody to try and get laid. So this is a little bit different when all of a sudden you have to start doing that again and your wife is across the room still.

I was never particularly good at it anyway, and so I'm much better now than I ever was. But it's not easy.

And these are strangers that you meet. You've never met them before?

It depends. We have groups of friends that have house parties pretty regularly. We tend to know the people that are there, but not always. Sometimes we do walk into the last party that we went to. We didn't know anybody other than host and hostess. It just depends on, you know, on the composition of the group.

Right. So are there any, you know, rules? I mean, any like, you know, relative rules? If you do that you get kicked out or, you know, or at the house party. Is there some type of setting that needs to be for optimal, you know, party?

Well, I think that, I mean a couple of things. Everybody tends to be well behaved and everybody tends to be very respectful. And we all believe in consent and we're going to ask. And our level of consent for just touching and kissing is way lower than certainly in the vanilla world. And it's at a swingers party, it's not uncommon for people to just come up and put their arm around you and kiss you on the cheek or rub your butt. Rub your butt, yeah. And so the fact that you're at a house party provides a certain level of implied consent that that level of touching and interaction is going to probably be okay, but nobody's going to drag you off to a bedroom and have sex with you without your consent. And so, so we, we tend to be very, you know, in our, in our community we're very, you know, we're very social, we're very respectful. And so, you know, as far as rules. Yeah, just, just, you know, be kind, be respectful. As far as settings are concerned, it's going to vary depending upon, you know, upon the party. We have one party that we go to very tightly run in the sense that, you know, that it's the social hour is between 8 and 9 at 9 o' clock or the hostess says, all right, everybody's close off and get busy. And so literally and, and that's, that's the way that they, because they like to go to bed, they don't want to be up until 2 or 3 o' clock in the morning, they want to get going at 9 and have everybody out of their house by midnight.

And we expect that. Awesome. And because there's there that, you know, you better get there if you want to not be naked when you walk in the door, you better get there before 9 o' clock because she will make you take your clothes off. And so that doesn't, like he said, I mean you have to be having sex, but if you want some warm up time, you get there.

If you want the social time, you gotta get there.

Yeah, get there at least half an hour and a 45 minutes early.

Yeah, but other parties are other parties. It's very much a free flowing, freeform thing. We have another party that we go to frequently where all of the social activity basically can go on all night long downstairs and then all the sex happens upstairs. And they say we ask that you only play upstairs and, and then the Downstairs is for the social time. And, you know, you can go upstairs and have sex and take a break, go back downstairs, you know, get a snack or, you know, something to drink, talk to people, find somebody else to go upstairs with. And so that's the way that party flows. It's. They're all different, though, and there's no real set, you know, no real set pattern.

So.

And I want to ask you, Tristan, so when you're at a party, how many times do you have sex and how many times you orgasm, and how easy or difficult was that for you?

It's. Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. The best party that I've had, I was with four different women, but I didn't. And when I'm with multiple women in an evening, I don't typically orgasm with each one. I'll play with one, and then we'll take a break, play with another, or take a break. But sometimes, you know, I do orgasm more than once in the evening, and I have to take a longer break when that happens. The other question sounds to me like asking about performance. And sometimes I do have difficulty performing in group settings because it can be anxiety provoking for me. I suffer from a lot of social anxiety and always have. And so, you know, sometimes I get, you know, I get really amped up when I'm in a group setting like that. And sometimes it's difficult to perform, or I can usually get hard, but sometimes I can't maintain an erection. When there's a lot of activity going on, I get distracted. So if we're on a bed with, you know, eight or 10 people, which has happened, and sometimes I get lost in. In what all is going on, and I get distracted and can't stay hard sometimes.

And what. What happened when that happened? What? Yeah, when. When you can't stay hard.

I use my mouth and my fingers.

Okay.

All right. So you try to please her.

Oh, yeah. No, I'm. Yeah. And that in itself adds a lot of pressure because I'm very, very attuned to wanting to please my partner of the moment, and that's very important to me. And so sometimes that in itself adds a lot of pressure, which makes it difficult to perform ironically, because I put a lot of pressure on myself. And so sometimes I just need to remind myself, this is fun, relax. You know, I don't have to have a goal here, but some. But a lot of times I do. And so if I'm able to get out of my head and more into my body, that's when you know everything.

Works okay, and, and how do you do that? How do you overcome that performance?

It's a work in progress. It's a work in progress. I'm still working on that.

Well, like you said, you were distracted. If you're distracted and you're not in the moment there. And but what you said earlier was that you want to get out of your Audi head into your body. And you said it's a work in progress. Just say you're you. You were in the, in the moment and you start to lose. How do you get back into the moment again and arouse yourself?

I try to focus on the woman that I'm with and to just focus on her because when my attention gets pulled away, and which is, that's easy to have happen for my attention to get pulled away if all this is going on around me. And I love watching Marina and being aware of Marina when she's having sex. And so that in itself sometimes is very distracting because I want to see what she's up to and I want to watch her and I want to hear her. And so that's actually been one of my biggest challenges because we tend to be in at least in the same area when, whether it's at a party or at a club or, you know, a playroom at a resort or wherever. And so we tend to be, I tend to be within earshot at least, and she's very loud. And so. And I now it's. So it's a dual edged sword because that really turns me on. But I can also, it can also pull me away from the partner that I'm with. And so that's a, that's an ongoing struggle for me just to balance those, you know, balance the excitement with the, with getting distracted.

And the other thing too, if I can add a quick women's, woman's perspective, two things. I would also say the other thing too is, and you guys didn't bring this up, is that after 20, you know, 30 years together, all of a sudden this man has to wear condoms again.

Yes. That's a huge piece of it.

He hasn't had to wear condoms in years.

Yeah, that's a huge piece.

Years and years. Yeah. And so that in and of itself, doing that all over again in your 50s is incredibly challenging. And then the other thing too is if, if, if it's a smaller group setting, like say it's maybe just eight couples and we're there and our other couple is there if, if Tristan and I are playing together because sometimes we we will actually play together. We'll have people be having sex with other people. You know, we're all trading and we end up with each other, which is fun. But if I know he's having a problem or my other partner is having a problem, I can. You can feel it. A woman can feel it. And I will usually stop and say, well, let me give you a blowjob, or change some positions or do something. And that helps me also when I'm with partners that are not my regular partner. Because if I feel that, if I can tell they're starting to lose their erection, maybe they're watching their wife. That's very common. And so I'm like, hey, man, you go, you. I'm not offended at all. Watch your wife and really enjoy that moment. Because guess what? When you're ready to come back to me after you've had that break because you've been watching her, you're probably going to be amped up and ready to go. So I will gladly give you five, 10, 15 minutes, whatever you need. I'll go get a drink. I mean, there's so many different things you can do. And I think as women, we can support our partners that way by, or even asking, hey, do you want me to give you a blowjob? Can I do that? Or is there something different we can do? Can we try something? Do you want to switch a position and not make it awkward for the, for the guy too? Because you don't. You may not know him as really as well. So sometimes I'll just say, hey, do you mind if we change positions knowing that that something is challenging them? And then when we're changing position, I might then just decide to give him a blowjob, knowing that that probably will help. And so that may. Even though that might have been my goal, I wouldn't tell him that because he might think, oh, she's. No, she has to give me a blowjob so I get hard again or whatever. Just don't even make it an issue to say, hey, let's change around and ooh, while I'm here, might as well just suck your dick for a minute. And then that will help get them re stimulated. So, you know, there's things that the women can do too, if you're savvy and you're paying attention.

Right?

I like how you say, how you say that. What other things can a woman do to stimulate a man when you feel that he may be losing or distracted watching his wife? What other things beside like oral and, And Changing position.

I. Well, I think those are the two big ones for me, but also depending on the person and how well you know them, a lot of times it can be. A little bit of dirty talk can help. Maybe whispered in the ear, make it sexual and sexy. Let me think. What else could we do? I just think it's.

I was thinking about. We were with another. So there were six of us, our couple and then another couple, and we were at a. In a hotel room, and I was on top of the. The. The woman that we had just met that evening. And I started to, you know, and I was doing well, but then I started to kind of, you know, run out of steam, lose my breath a little bit. And then when I lose my breath, then I, you know, a lot of times I'll lose my erection. So I started slowing down. And right when I did that, my girlfriend kind of, I think, sensed what was going on. And so she started, like, playing with my balls from the underside. And, you know, I like it when she, you know, plays with my ass a little. And so she did that. And the woman that I was having sex with, and I don't know how she knew this or just sensed it, she reached up and, like, put her hands around my throat, and I'm kind of kinky. And I really like. So the combination of those two things. And this is a rare thing, you know, but that's something that, you know, just happened in the moment and that everybody was on the same page and that did the trick. And. But you can't count on that all the time. I'm not always going to have my girlfriend behind me as an assist, and the woman that I'm with isn't always going to know, oh, Tristan likes to be choked. It just kind of happened that way. Yeah. And so there have been several variations on that theme that I can think of.

Well, how do you guide. You guys have this solid dynamic and you have such an ease of communication with one another. How do you maintain that, particularly with swing as well and having another amorous relationship? How do you have that open communication and approach? Difficult subject at times.

You need to be. And this is not easy to do, especially after you've been together for so long. But you need to be able to become vulnerable to your partner and to overcome that fear of vulnerability. And I say it's difficult sometimes, especially after all these years, because we have set patterns in terms of how we communicate, how we talk, how we think and how we behave. And so to mix that up after so long is Scary. And to, to say things like, yeah, I really would like to have sex with this other woman. Well, that's terrifying to say to your wife after so many years. And it takes a lot of courage and a lot, and a lot of vulnerability. But it's that very vulnerability when it's accepted and not and rewarded that reinforces, you know, that, that making yourself vulnerable and making yourself open. And in that vulnerability, it creates trust. And the more that you trust, the more intimate you can become with your spouse and the more intimacy you have, the more love that you have. And so it's a really neat cycle, but it takes overcoming some fear in the beginning. And I found that the more that we, we've always had, I think, good communication, but in the last four and a half years it's just skyrocketed and gone from, you know, very good to expert level communication, which I think is, well, I think it's required to be successful as a swinger. You might be able to get away with mediocre communication for a while in this, but ultimately it's going to catch up. And so I think that for us at least, our level of communication is directly related to our success as swingers and our success in our marriage. And to me, it all comes back to being trusting.

Well, and the other thing too, when we first started on this journey, we made a vow to each other that our marriage had to be the priority and we had to talk about everything. And so we really said, you know, we have to make a promise to talk about the stuff that we don't want to talk about. And so can we promise that to each other? Because if we can't, then this is going to not be okay. It's going to hurt us. We've got to be able to talk about the hard stuff. And we really talked about the fact of can we talk about the hard stuff and make that commitment to each other. And we did. And that's the piece that has, I think, really kept us on, on a good path because even when it has gotten hard, we said, you know, we know we've made that promise to each other that we have to talk about it. When you are in an ethically non monogamous relationship, you don't have to lie about wanting to have sex with somebody else or about being interested in somebody else, or about flirting with somebody else. You don't have to cover any of those things up. It's our gift to each other that you go and be you. You go and do that. So there's no reason to lie about it. But a human nature is to not want to hurt the person. That. Or to, you know, you don't. You may not want to tell the truth, or you may not. You fear that you're going to hurt them. And we've had to have those conversations with each other. Like, you know, actually, Tristan was the one that came to me with the first man that I actually had serious feelings for. And he said, you're having really hard, you know, serious feelings for him. And I'm not sure I'm okay with it. And I said, no, I'm not. And he said, yeah, you are. You need to really think about this. You really are. And I. And I realized I was kind of hiding that from my own self, even, because I didn't want to give it up. I really liked him. But Tristan was the one that picked up on it and said, you need to think about this, but let's talk about it. Not that you can't do it, but we need to talk about it. And so that led to a really great conversation and understanding about the fact that I think I was even trying to shut that door on myself, because I didn't. I wasn't going to have feelings for someone. This is my husband. How could I do that? But when we realized we're both that way, we're going to have feelings for each other, we better tackle that now. I mean, we're going to have feelings for other people. We better tackle some of that now and make sure that we can handle that. The other thing, too, is that we've learned is that when you're married for a really long time, a lot of times something you do that the other person makes you angry or irritates you, you may shove it under the rug, or you just may blast them instantly. What we've kind of gotten a balance about is if something's bothering one of us about what the other one's doing, especially in the lifestyle, we usually will take a step back and kind of process it for ourselves. Now, like, why is that? Why am I bothered by this? That way I can go to Tristan and say, I have an issue. Let me tell you what it is. I'm not saying you have to stop, but I don't like it when you act in this particular way. When you're with this particular woman, I feel really left out. Can you just make sure. Or what can we do so that I don't have those feelings? Or if I'm feeling this feeling, how can I come up to you safely with her standing there, but I need a little bit of love and attention from you or whatever that looks like. I mean, there's so many variations of that, but these are the kinds of talks we've had to have. And it's amazing how great that is to say, hey, just letting you know, come and I'm going to go play. But I'm. Come and give him a big kiss to let him know I know you're here, and you're still in my heart and you're still in my mind. I mean, that's the main thing. And so those types of things, those little pieces of communication that we've worked hard on, kind of refining that for ourselves and our relationship, that has led to it being even better and stronger. And it's still hard, and there are still things that we still have to give each other time to process and let it come up on that person's terms. We'll talk about it when I'm ready to talk about it. If it's my issue or he's ready. We don't blast each other now. We give each other the room and the space that we need to come to something ourselves. And sometimes it may not even come up because you figured it out for yourself. You might not have to talk about it.

Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Because it's all about open communication and like Tristan says, showing your vulnerability, but yet knowing what you're uncomfortable with. Not that you know a whole sentence in the day, because a lot of us don't. Don't understand what we're uncomfortable with or know why we're uncomfortable with that, and then trying to articulate that to, you know, our partner. I mean, I myself, sometimes with my husband, you know, we have, you know, challenges as well, because you don't know what you're uncomfortable.

What.

You just know I'm uncomfortable, but I don't know exactly what. Exactly what that is. And then having to articulate it and you really hit in the head, as in communication, being vulnerable and sharing how you feel without blaming. Right. And, and. And, you know, and having an open communication on both sides and asking that person what you would like to happen. Right. A lot of times you would state the problem, but you don't tell that other person, well, you know, if you want another. A woman, I would like to have some love as well, too, and show me that. And then he'll say, oh, why didn't you say so? Right. Because. Yeah, right. But sometimes we. We forget that we forget to ask for what we want. Right. Because we're Thinking that the other person will probably know that, and that may not be the case. So I love what you share about the communication. So how has being do swinging strengthen your marriage?

I think really what we just said we could repeat because it's the communication and the trust that has created greater intimacy and greater love and strengthened our marriage. I think it really does come back down to those fundamental core of communication, trust and intimacy.

I think also because we're going through a stage in our lives and a lot of times I kind of equate it to people. You know, we've been. We went through the bumpy part of our marriage. You know, we've been together a really long time and never. I think everybody hits a point probably in their marriage. We're like, well, we. We met when we were young. We've grown different directions, and we managed through all of that and we stayed together and we knew we. We were going to be fine and everything was going to be okay. When we started in this lifestyle and we made this commitment to each other to communicate and make sure that we have that information given to each other or that we're processing for ourselves. The other thing that's happened is that our bodies and our own selves have gone through some changes as well. And like I said, I kind of equate it to maybe people getting divorced. And now all of a sudden, if I were a divorced woman at this age, that I have to go out and learn how to date again and I have to learn how to have sex with other people again, and I have to learn all those things. And we're going through that with each other. And so we're rediscovering our own sex and sexuality on our terms, but with each other, with other people. So it's those. That kind of growth makes us stronger. It makes that makes our relationship stronger because we've been with each other for so long now we're getting to see each other kind of revitalized and re. Energized and all of those things. And, And Tristan's becoming much more outgoing and comfortable in his introverted skin. He's an introverted guy and he's learning how to, you know, handle all those things. And it's just a different point of life, but we're still doing this together. And I think that's part of also what continues to strengthen it because you're. When you experience experiences with people, that's where you. You get strength in your relationship with them, whether it's friends or somebody going through crisis with each other or things like that. It bonds you together. Well, we're getting this bonding through, going through something that's totally changing. We're changing our marriage dynamic, but it's a bonding moment for us, so it's really helped us grow.

Yeah.

So when. When a couple has difficulty in their marriage, should they look at swinging or. Not really, because, you know, you got to have a tight relationship first before you start swinging. What are your thoughts?

I think that as a general rule, yeah, you need to have a very strong marriage. Now, that doesn't mean that people who maybe are having a little bit of difficulty and they just want to spice things up, and then they might be able to experience all the things that we're talking about, but that's dangerous. And certainly if you have a weak marriage, absolutely not. This is not going to repair your marriage. But, you know, it's. I wouldn't foreclose it for a couple who, you know, maybe has a solid marriage, but, you know, maybe just they need to spice things up a little bit. But understanding the risk, and that is risky.

Yeah. And I think if it can help. But if you're looking to add non monogamy to help strengthen your marriage, then you need professional help to help you help it, you know, so find a marriage counselor that is very open to non monogamy. I think that's a. That's. There are lots of them out there. They are there, I promise. And if this is something that you think you want, walk through it with your partner about. If you're just feeling that you weren't meant to be monogamous, there are ways that maybe you, too, can figure that out and then have it be a fun and exciting thing for both of you and strengthen your marriage. But when. If you're not communicating well already, have someone help you start to lay that foundation of having the good communication, because that's what's going to save you in the end. Because your human nature will tell you to hide things from each other because you don't want. Like I said, you don't want to hurt them. It's our tendency, like, oh, if I flirt with this woman, you know, or if I'm flirting with a man that I know is going to irritate Tristan because he's everything that Tristan isn't. I don't want Tristan to get jealous. Maybe I won't tell him. That's so not the way to do it. So you have to even get through even the. All of those things. And so just find someone that can help you navigate those waters. I think it's an amazing. Obviously an amazing thing. It's an amazing relationship to have. We love it. We are not Ken and Barbie. We are the typical mid-50s professionals family. You know, there's just. We're just typical. And so people can do this is kind of what I'm trying to get at. But there are resources and things out there for you and people that you can look to to help you get through the process, if that's something that you're interested in. So they can. It's doable. It's just. You just. It would be smart to have a little bit of extra guidance.

Very well. I very well said. Now, what challenges have come up between you and Tristan when doing what being a swinger and how have you guys managed them?

Challenges. Gosh, there's been. We had challenges at the beginning with about how we were feeling when we started having feelings for others. We've had a lot of challenges. If you listen to our podcast. So we. We started a podcast called the Accidental Swingers Podcast, which you talked about. The podcast chronicles our journey. So if people want to listen about people going through the journey of going into nonmonogamy, you should listen to the podcast. And there are lots of podcasts out there and we often will recommend others if you listen to ours. So there are others out there. So if you don't jive with us, that's fine. Find a couple or people or podcasts that you do jive with because it will open your eyes. The things for us that were challenging when we started having feelings for other. When Tristan wanted to make this particular girl his girlfriend. And he said to me, she. What did you say? She brings out?

The gist was. And I don't recall the exact words, but the gist was that she filled needs that I had that Marina didn't.

Couldn't fill or didn't or didn't want to now.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so, I mean, we've been married a really long time. And at first, of course, I was incredibly offended and got really mad and told him basically to. To go f himself on that one because, you know, f you. I'm your wife. I'm supposed to be everything that. That you want. What else could you want? I'm Marina. My God, what else could you possibly want? But I realized in us talking about that even more, and that was painful and that was a risk for him to have to say. I don't think he thought I was going to react the way that I reacted, but I did Because I was like, you know, up your. Screw you. I'm. I'm your number one. But then I realized, oh, my God. And I've been with this man for, you know, at that time, 27 years, and guess what? I love him. But he's not new and exciting to me anymore. His stories are the same stories I've heard for a really long time. You know, and sometimes it's like, yeah, okay, whatever you're talking. When you meet someone who's new and you get that new relationship energy, you know, there's. That's exciting and that makes you feel on top of the world when you have someone that just wants to hear all about it and laughs at all your jokes, because you're amazing and wonderful and smart and all these things that you are. But when someone's been with you for so long, I might not show that as much. And I think that was a piece that, that was really like, you know what? No, it's okay. I know he's not gonna leave me for her. Those are the. Those are the things that I think most people worry about. Is he gonna leave me for her? Well, I knew in this particular case there was no way in hell he was ever gonna leave me for her. Just for some other, you know, personality traits that I was like, there's. There's no way. But honestly. And having that safety net was what allowed me to say no, go forth and do. But then that's led it to have freedoms with other people. And so there is a lot of challenge that that comes with that in letting some of those things go and letting the other person have some freedoms that you weren't really sure about.

Well, how do you know that? And this is. This is probably going to be a common question is how do you know that Tristan gonna be so attracted to her that he's gonna fall in love with her and choose her over you? How do you know that? How do you know that's not gonna happen?

You don't. You don't. And so that's part of us staying in constant communication about those things. Now. Now I've also though, in our relationship, in our dynamic, especially because we are in a relationship with another couple, but we have given each other permission to love other people. This comes from one of our favorite books, the Ethical Slut. If anybody ever reads that, it's not always, it's not all about non monogamy. There's a lot of talks about relationships. But it's a great book. It's called the Ethical Slut. And they talk about in there, about, love is not a piece of. And so, you know, time is a pie. You only have so much time. You can't. If you give an hour here, you're not getting it back somewhere else. If money is a pie, you only have so much. You give that dollar away, you don't have anymore. Love is not a pie. You have so much love inside of you. Just because I give him all my love doesn't mean there's no love left for my children or my family or my friends. That just doesn't make sense. And so if you can kind of come to grips with that saying, well, he can love me. He's gonna love me. He loves me. We've made it. We have a life together. We've built a life together, and that's that love. But now he has this other opportunity, and I have an opportunity to love someone who excites different things than me. And that's what Tristan said. Something that I can't give. Maybe that's not my personality, but somebody else has the personality that excites him in a different way. The man that I'm dating now, my boyfriend, which is the husband of his girlfriend, because we're all in the couple together. But he is a challenging person, and that challenges me intellectually in a different way than Tristan does. And so I love that drive, just because the way that we work together and the things that we're working on together, and it's just a different way of having a different relationship. And so I think that. That you worry about those things, but that's. We have. My job is to make sure. If I'm feeling worried, I have to come to Tristan and say, I'm worried about this, and let me tell you why. And those same types of things, it's that same. Just making sure, because you don't know that that won't happen. But that's the risk that you take with anything you get. You take a risk getting into a car every day. You know, you don't know that something's not going to happen. So that our. Our decision was to live this lifestyle, to try it, and if we weren't hurting each other, then we would continue on with it. And it's grown exponentially. So we face those challenges. We acknowledge that those fears are there, and how do we get through them and pass them. And that's part of that communication piece. You can see it's all a big circle. You know, it all just works together.

Right. Right now, if Marina and Tristan can have that type of communication. I think any monogamous relationship can definitely can talk about anything. Right. If you guys can maneuver risk of losing your partner, because that part, that partner may, you know, fall in love with somebody else. And death, like you said, there is that risk. You can't guarantee there isn't a risk of that, but you guys can maneuver those tough conversations. That, that is, that's, I think that's awesome. And I hope that our listener can learn something from that. So what, what I wanted to ask was that we talk about this before the show. And I'm going to ask Tristan. This is that we talk about your lifestyle. And you said, well, you know, first thing, I don't have the best lifestyle. I don't have the best lifestyle for maintaining optimal sexual health.

So.

And, but I want to focus on, not because I want to focus on the negativity, but I want to focus on the positivity in that, you know, that you drink perhaps more alcohol than you should and probably doesn't, doesn't exercise and, and doesn't have the best diet, but yet this man in his 50s is having the best sex of his life in one night. He can have four times sex and orgasm and sexual experiences. And he's in his 50s. But yet, you know, you know, he, he's not the, you know, the best at all those stuff. So can you share us about how you feel about that and, and you know, just to kind of give our listener. Because I want to stress that, hey, you know, he doesn't follow all the rules either, but he's having the best sex of his life.

Yeah.

And I don't follow really any of the rules for optimizing health. And as we discussed earlier, yeah, I'm probably 30 pounds overweight. I don't exercise. I have a sedentary job, I drink too much, I don't smoke. And so at least I've, you know, I've got that going for me. But. But yeah, I have sex on average 10 times a week between Marina and my girlfriend and whomever else may be in the mix in a particular week. And so, yeah, notwithstanding.

Is that every day? Is that, is that multiple times in a day? Right?

Yeah, often it's often, you know, twice in a day, morning and evening, depending upon, you know, again, the composition. It might be Marina. It might be combination of Marina and my girlfriend or. And just the combinations are pretty infinite.

And.

But yeah, so notwithstanding not following all the health optimizing rules, I'm still able to perform fairly well. And I think That's a function of. Well, first of all, I'm just incredibly attracted to my beautiful wife and my beautiful girlfriend. But, and I love sex. I just love sex and I love variety and I love everything about it. And so, yeah, you know, that passion certainly helps. But I think just also the fact that it's, you know, it's, it's its own form of exercise for me, and that really is about the only way that I do exercise is, is all right.

And, you know, we talked about the analogy of going to the gym when we first met, and it's, it's for you, it's a form of exercise that's you going to the gym. And I always tell my patients or all my listeners, you don't use it, you lose it. Because the penis is the muscle and it need to be used or it doesn't it start to shrink and the blood flow is going to be altered. So if you don't use it, you lose it. And going to the gym 10 times a week is, is, is your exercise. And in fact, for a man, you burn about 200 calories at the least with sex. So the longer you go, the more calories you burn is considered, it's considered moderate exercise. So that's the zone you want to be in.

So we need, look at you, babe. How did you go? Moderate exercise.

Are you, we need more sex.

You need more sex. I, I, I recommend at least a minimum of three times a week. So you triple, you triple that part.

Yeah, you've tripled it. He's an overachiever. He's an overachiever.

So, Tristan, triple that. Triple that. So it gets down to, you don't use it, you lose it now. And, and the number, you know, number one cause are contributing to ED is actually increasing alcohol, and it's drink more alcohol than you should because it does affect the blood flow and the hormone that's released from your brain. But in Tristan's case, it may not affect him because he's using it, his body is using. He's not popping in Viagra listeners.

He's not popping in medication, although I do in new situations and in group situations I do. But it's not something I use every day at all, you know, by any stretch. It's, it's a, it's an aberrant thing for me to do, but it, I do find it helpful. I think psychologically, it's kind of like a psychological backstop. But, yeah, if I'm, if I'm going into a big party and especially if I don't. If I'm going to be with women I've never met before. Yeah. I will pop up Viagra.

Okay. What dose would you take?

I think it's a 20. 20 milligrams. That sound right?

Yeah, yeah. 20 milligrams. 20 milligram Viagra. It's a low dose, but you don't do it every time you want to get an erection.

Oh, no, no, no. It's, yeah, it's. It's really, I think more for my peace of mind, feeling like I've, you know, I mean there certainly is a physical, you know, a physical aspect and reaction to it, but it's, it's probably more psychological for me.

Right, right. And. And you're. And you got it right on the dot because it becomes kind of a crutch like you said, in that you feel that you need to be performing and it sometimes be more of a crutch than you think because 20 milligrams are pretty low dose and you know, because it can go up to 110 milligrams. Yeah. And then you, you know, so. But I don't, you know, in your case. But what. The point I'm trying to make is that you don't need it every time you, yeah, you, you. And you still can able to. To get an erection. And. But medication, what it does is that it hijack the people that take medication on a regular basis is hijack your natural response to have an erection because you want to have an erection. Being aroused and feeling desire and stimulating the five senses that you have, which is your vision, your, the smell, the taste, the hearing and your touch. Do you want to bring all those senses to your brain, which then releases hormones and nerve to stimulate the heart for increasing your heart rate and your nerve to increase your blood vessel to be open and you have more blood flow that will flow to your penis. So that's all connected to all the five senses. So when you take Viagra, what it does is that relaxes the penis muscle so that way it can engorge with, with the blood flow. But what you're doing is you're disconnecting the brain to the penis.

I love the way that you stated that because I'm incredibly sensual and I love, you know, and so you asked me earlier, how do I get back into my body when I, when I am hijacked by being overstimulated or distracted. And that's one of the ways that I do is I, I try to, you know, reconnect with the woman. That I'm with and using my senses and, and I love using all of my senses and particularly scent and taste. That was interesting and great to hear you say it that way. And I haven't really thought of it holistically like that, but because a man.

That is paralyzed from the neck down, I mean, he cannot feel anything from the neck down can get an erection and father children. So that means that he's powering his erection through his five senses of touching his face. You know, he may not feel in his hand, but he's powering his direction from his brain. And the brain is a larger sexual organ. Don't ever ignore the brain because nothing happens but below the belt. If that, not if nothing, if you're not taking care of what's above the neck. And so like a paraplegic, I mean a quadriplegic man or a man that's paralyzed from the neck down can have an erection, then you know, have. Knowing the fact that the brain is a larger sexual organ is the most powerful organ. You can have an erection just with your brain alone with the five senses.

Yeah, that.

The input into the brain to make that happen. So that's why taking ED medication, you hijack your natural response to get an erection because you just, you skip the brain all the way to the penis. You just, you're just taking the medicine to, hey, relax, penis, you know, here's the blood flow. And that's why over a period of time and maybe one to three years, the medication doesn't help anymore. It really doesn't help. And then, but it also takes away your confidence in yourself. And hey, I can get an erection because you're, you're thinking, well, I can't, I can't do, I can't perform well without that medication. So it becomes a mental crutch too. And then you're relying upon, you're relying upon it, you know, and so that's why, you know, it's, it's, it gets you more in a big black hole than you started out with. I equate it to almost to like taking opioids, pain medication for back, for pain. Because, you know, it may, it may treat the symptom. In the long run, you're not treating the cause of your problem at all, just giving you some short term relief. But then the long run, you're stuck because what does a man do when the medication doesn't work anymore? If he doesn't know about what I do, which is increasing blood flow with stem cells and with shockwave therapy, and with hormone, you know, what does he do? And I'm seeing men in their 30s, you know, even in their 20s, with Ed. And you can have 50 years, 40 years of your life. What do you do with that? I mean, how would you feel if you guys don't have sex. Sex anymore for the next 30 years?

Yeah, that. That wouldn't work for me.

That would be tough. That.

That would be tough. So. And before we started, we, I, you know, Marina had shared something that I was found so fascinating. And if you can talk a little bit about how you're able to have multiple orgasm in the night for hours and you're able to ejaculate now, just share us a little bit of some of the tips you use.

Sure. Well, I don't know that I can really give very many tips. I will say that before we started in the lifestyle, I did not know any differently and that when Tristan and I would have sex, I would have an orgasm, usually only manually, only from clitoral stimulation. I never had a vaginal orgasm, but we had, like I said, it was fine. It was great. I would have an orgasm, he would orgasm, everybody was good, everybody was happy, and then it was done. And then when we got into the lifestyle, just by being with other men and having other opportunities and my body kind of getting excited in ways that it hadn't been in a long time, I was able to start to experience other things. And so for the first time in my life, I had vaginal orgasms. I did not. For me, they are very different than clitorial orgasms. I had no idea. I thought I was supposed to just feel the same both ways. It doesn't. But I have amazing vaginal orgasms now that are totally different than a clitoral orgasm. I love them both.

How were you able to get the vaginal orgasm when you couldn't get it before? What changed?

You know, I was with a different man who had a different penis shape and size than Tristan. And it was fascinating. But he still. He kind of helped me. He is an amazing lover and has been in the lifestyle forever and kind of helped me say, you know, help, say, well, you know, if you. I feel you. And he would say, I feel you doing that. Can you do that more? So he could feel my body, my muscles on the inside. And I was trying to. I didn't even realize it, but you're trying to contract your muscles to. To be able to wrap around the penis or whatever I do anyways when we're having sex. And that when those Muscles get, you know, inside where you're near your G spot or what's the other one, the A spot, P spot? I don't know. There's a whole bunch of spots in there. I don't know. I just have sex and they all work great, but all those spots. But I think he was able to hit me in a different area and then. And just kind of said, oh, keep doing that. And I would keep doing that. And then all of a sudden I had this orgasm. And I was like. And I stopped him. I said, wait, I think I just had an orgasm. He's like, I think you did. I'm like, let's try that again. And so because my body shook in a way, I just didn't. But it was so different than a clitoral orgasm. For me, it wasn't that it was a wave from the inside. Whereas when I have an orgasm from manual stimulation or from oral, it comes from my toes up and goes. It's just. It's just a different. It's just totally different. And so when he kind of showed me how to start to use my body for myself, then I could start to do that. I can't do it every single time, but I do it a lot more. I mean, there's some times where you just, you know, I just. I probably wouldn't orgasm at all. You're just tired. Your body is just not going to do what it needs to do for that particular day. But. But that was something I had never done before. And then also what you mentioned was having just one orgasm, being kind of one and done. I was lucky enough to be with a man who we actually were all together with his wife, and we were having sex and I came and he started to re. Stimulate me again. And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. I've already. I've already had my orgasm. I'm done. And he said, no, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. Your body can do more. And I said, no, it can't. And he said, yes, it can. And he said, I'm going to tell you, and when you think you can't take it any longer, go a little bit longer. And I said, all right, I'll try it. I really liked him. And he was hot, too, so that helped a lot. We had a great chemistry.

Well, you know that women don't have a refractory period, so. Yeah. So take advantage of that.

Right? But I thought that I did. I thought that I did. I thought I could only have One orgasm, and that was it. I thought that that was what my refractory period was, that I thought that I did. And so, because I trusted him and we had an amazing chemistry, I was able to relax and let him keep going. And it was really challenging because I felt I was overstimulated and I was gonna. I just didn't even know what to do. And then all of a sudden, I had a second orgasm. And then he said he was going to keep going, and I said, okay. And they just became more powerful. And then usually for me, it's faster, and then it kind of ebbs and flows. But so I was able to have three or four with him in that particular evening, all when we were all together that night. And it was a game changer. So now there are times where I think this is what you were talking about earlier. I have one particular play partner that he actually has a sex swing, and I think this lends a lot to it. So I'm in a swing, so I'm totally relaxed. My legs are up, but they're in a sling kind of themselves. And so I'm not having to hold my legs up. So I'm a million percent relaxed, but I'm in a position that allows easy access to my body. And so when. And I can just lay there, but my legs are still up and open. And I'm just so comfortable that when I can get into that totally relaxed mode, if I'm well hydrated and I am turned on, I can come for hours. And it is like. It's a mess because I also squirt. I'm a female ejaculation. And so when. And this particular playmate is an amazing person. He knows women's bodies really, really well, and he knows my body really well. We've been together for almost as long as we've been in the lifestyle. So he's gotten to know my body a lot better, knows my buttons to push. And so, I mean, it can be two hours that I could be up in that swing. And it's just almost a constant. I mean, we're having sex, and he's stimulating me, and I'm having clitoral orgasms and vaginal orgasms, and we swap out.

And so we'll relieve each other.

And so I get another man to come in and pick up where the one needs a break, because maybe his hand is tired or his penis is tired. And so. But I'm just relaxed. I'm just. I'm just there, and it's. It's awesome. And I never thought I would ever even get in a sex swing. I'm a, I'm not a tiny little person. I'm a huge Amazon woman. I'm over six feet.

You're lovely, lovely, Erin.

Well, thank you. But I was mortified. I would be like, I'm going to be the person that gets in this wing and it's going to come fall out of the ceiling because I'm not tiny. And so I always had that. That's always been like a, you know, that, that can mess with you too. That's your mental, that's your brain, your sex organ, you know, blocking you before you can have the chance. So I always would worry about that. And I trusted him and I trusted being there with Tristan. And it was just an amazing experience. And it's only gotten better and better and better and those same types of things. But I have to be able to really trust the person. I have to know them. And that's why for us, I think in our non monogamy journey is that being with the partners a couple of times, you get that trust and you get that relaxation. I don't. I'm probably faster now than I was. I can build trust faster and I probably, I can be orgasmic with a stranger. When we first started, I definitely could not. I could be orgasmic, but it would, you know, it took a long time to kind of build up that trust and to be multi orgasmic. But now I'm a lot faster. But same type of thing. You said you don't, you don't use it, you lose it. I didn't know I had it. And so I still need to, I'm working on working that, those muscles and, and the situations and, and things like that.

But it's, what's working for you is you're relaxed, you're in the moment, you are attuned to your body, you're feeling it, you're in the moment and it's very sensual. So you're able to tap into the brain or the sensory input of the brain. Right. And that will, will accentuate the body response. And that's why you're able to tap into the multiple orgasm. But you're one of the lucky ones in that Only approximately about 15% of women have vaginal orgasm. But yet those numbers are old and they're not accounting for, you know, the modern times. And you know, I'm thinking of, you know, women now are attuned to their body. They're, you know, perhaps, you know, if they have an open Relationship or things like that. I think those numbers may increase more. So we don't know whether because they cannot those numbers because they cannot because of their anatomy or because maybe just the situation, their mindset. You know, I believe it's more of the latter than it is anatomy or physical. Or physical. And well, it has to be related to the partner you're with too. Right. So the partner you're with have to be attuned to it, have to be patient. You have to know where to stimulate you as well. Interestingly, you know, in a monogamous heterosexual relationship, only about 30% of women actually have orgasm when they have sex.

And.

But 99% of women of men do. Yeah. So that, that's, you know, something to, that's why I want to throw out those numbers. But having said that, I've learned so much about, you know, talking to you and, and tapping into your strength of communication vulnerability and asking for what you want. And it's not just in a swing of relationship, within any type of relationship is ask for what you want, but in an open, vulnerable manner and, you know, be amazed at what result you can get. So thank you for being with me today. I was really looking forward to this podcast and I've been listening to your podcast as well. So where can our listener get a hold of you and listen to your podcast?

So? Well, our podcast you can listen anywhere, anywhere that you can find a podcast that you listen to. Yours, Apple, Spotify, Google podcasts, any of those. And it's just called Accidental Swingers. So if you search, that will come up. I did want to say really fast one other thing about podcasts and about people being able to ask for what they want. Tristan and I talk about this often for folks who you don't have to come into the non monogamous lifestyle to spice your marriage up. Communication is definitely key, but you don't have to do what we do. But there are ways to spice up your marriage that can help your sex life. Talking about your fantasies, that's a huge thing. We have a lot of people though that will also listen to podcasts and we've met a lot of amazing people that will come up to us and they'll say, and it's true on both sides. We've had husbands come up and we've had wives come up and said, I listened to your podcast first and then I had my husband listen to it. And then that opened up the conversation and we started talking about maybe opening up our marriage. And now we're in the lifestyle Sometimes people will say, they'll listen to a podcast, and then they'll say, hey, honey, you should listen to this, too. What do you think? And maybe they don't open up their marriage, but they start talking about some of the cool fantasies that they could have, much like we did when those real sex shows came on.