ECM Method for Well Being with Dr Ellen Cutler – Episode 277 Behavioral Health Podcast

Welcome to Behavioral Health Today, a podcast brought to you by the Triad Network. This podcast is designed to share trending topics occurring within the world and our communities and bring them a behavioral and mental health perspective. Welcome to Behavioral Health Today. I'm your host, Dr. Graham Taylor. It's so nice to have you with us. My guest today is Dr. Ellen Cutler. Ellen is a best selling author with over 30 years of clinical experience as a chiropractor and pioneer in natural healing methods. Ellen specializes in desensitization of food and other sensitivities, gentle detoxification, enzyme and nutritional therapy, and a revolutionary energetic technique designed to thoroughly investigate and help heal chronic conditions that have perplexed the conventional medical establishment for years. Inspired by her own personal journey of overcoming severe gastrointestinal issues, Ellen developed her revolutionary healing technique, ecm, the Ellen Cutler Method, and provides training to other healthcare practitioners through her seminar appearances, books and videos and her webinars. We're excited to have Ellen with us today as we discuss advanced energetic desensitization techniques and her approach to energy based healing she calls the Ellen Cutler Method ecm. Ellen, welcome to our show. You know, Ellen, it's interesting, in the helping professions, everybody has their own unique story, don't they? And I mentioned the gastrointestinal issues that you were experiencing and that sounds like it kind of paved the way for some curiosity on your part and some really innovative thinking and planning and envisioning that you did. Tell us a little bit about your story and what brought you into this field.

Yes. Well, to begin, ever since I can remember as a little girl, I always had digestive problems. I was always bloated, had trouble with foods and cramping, et cetera. And I really couldn't tell anyone. My parents would not understand. It wasn't like I could talk to anyone about it. And as I got older, it got worse. And then going into healing, a health profession, I wanted to go to medical school, but I have a twin brother and my parents, we're a Jewish family and my parents said, my brother, you, you be a doctor. And Ellen, you, you should be a teacher. This was like, I heard this all the time for years and years and I really wanted to be a doctor and I don't think my brother cared about any of it. But anyway, he ended up so they paid for him to go to medical school. So I was kind of on my own and I really didn't want to be a teacher, although I am a teacher now. But so I sought out natural healing because I was kind of More into that, even as a, even younger, more into foods. What foods are good for you? I was always, it was always interesting for me. So I found chiropractic. I never had chiropractic done on me, so I was really going there for more nutrition and natural healing. And when I entered chiropractic school, I had to pay for myself. I would go to school in the morning and I worked in an emergency room to support myself and pay for my education. I got worse. Really, really bad. I could only live on one food. I just ate grapes and that's all I could eat.

Oh my.

So I got through chiropractor school. I was like, there were 80 people, there were only eight women. And I think we were three women that ended up graduating. That's what it was like then. As you can see, we're talking, you know, 40 something years ago, actually. I mean, I was a mess. I was, I, I remember I would try to run in the morning and I had no sleep. It was, I don't know how I did it, honestly, but my symptoms got really bad. And then in chiropractor school, I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. And, you know, and the only thing offered to me was steroids and maybe surgery later on in life. So I just let all that sink in and just stayed with my condition. And then I, I did a three year postgraduate course in orthopedics after chiropractic. And just to learn more, that's just always the way I am. I'm just never satisfied with knowing enough. I need to know more. So one of the teachers became my mentor and I shared with him finally about what I was going through. And he said, ellen, have you ever heard of a digestive enzyme? And at that time, nobody knew. It wasn't on the radar. Nobody knew what a digestive enzyme is. I surely didn't. He said, you are carbohydrate intolerant. And I've always been a vegetarian. Now I'm a vegan. So guess what I ate was all carbs. He said, they're fermenting. And because they're fermenting, you have this bloating, et cetera. Try taking this digestive enzyme one or two before every meal. And within two weeks, never had a problem again, ever.

Oh my.

To this day. So of course I became passionate about digestive enzymes. And then we're talking like 40 something years ago. And then I, of course, I had a very busy chiropractic practice at the time and I gave all my patients digestive Enzymes because I saw all kinds of other changes in my life. My skin, my hair, my energy, my hormones. Sexual libido is like a miracle. That's why I wrote this book, Micro Miracles. Anyway, so I saw miracles and from then on I've been passionate about digestive because I think it's the key number one most important supplement anyone should take is a digestive enzyme. Because really most people have food sensitivities and digesting your food can eliminate a lot of those food sensitivities. So that is my story. I am again passionate about digestive enzymes and proper digestion for well being and for optimal nutrition.

Yeah, what a story. What an overcoming opportunity you had with just something being introduced that changed everything in a matter of days. So you're out there practicing for a while and you're doing good work and. But the level of healing that you were anticipating, hoping for wasn't quite occurring and even in your, in your practice. So you got curious and interested in working to discover whether there was deeper meaning also to one's maybe acute or chronic illnesses. And this seemed to have brought you into your energetic work. Expand upon that part for us now.

Thank you for a great segue into what ECM is about. Yes, unfortunately it didn't clear all kinds of sensitivities. I got very curious about reactivities and sensitivities or like another word, allergies. But allergies in the medical term is very limited, so I call it sensitivities. So I began to explore energetic ways of discovering what sensitivities, what food sensitivities, what environmental, what pathogen, what what are underneath some of these chronic health problems. So I began to do muscle testing. I learned muscle testing in chiropractic school, which I still do and I love. The problem with muscle testing is the arm can become fatigued and you don't have that computer, you don't have that background that you could look at and depend on and use to expand the possibilities all the different sensitivities. So I went all over the world and spent time with all kinds of incredible champions in energetic medicine and energetic testing. And I came across many different machines and they based on the Vol machine, which is an energetic machine that uses meridian testing to look at what the underlying root causes of healthcare, of health problems that people are going through, what are those? And I look at them as what are those sensitivities? What are those reactivities? And this whole world opened up to me and I have been utilizing it, upgrading it to my ecm. Method that really I've seen thousands of people from all over the world and have incredible results. And again, there's a evaluation and there's a treatment as well. But even the evaluation can be a breakthrough for people.

I would imagine just having something named or discovered probably much like when you had your mentor say, hey, have you considered it must be the same thing. I read testimonies about your work and someone says, there's nothing in the world like what you do, Ellen. And it's, it's, it's really noteworthy. And it changes not just the way that practitioners get to practice and add something truly beneficially adjunctive to what they're doing, but also for patients to have a greater understanding. You mentioned that there's an evaluative process and then a subsequent process that follows. What happens in this evaluative process, you look to get to the root of maybe what one's presenting problem is really about whether maybe it's headaches or digestive issues or maybe a fibromyalgia. Walk us through that evaluative process, would you?

Yes. So let's say somebody comes in. Fibromyalgia is great because I've had such a good results with it and there's really no treatment out there that works. The problem is, is what ECM also, it's what is important to point out. It's tailored to the individual. So, so there are two, three people with fibromyalgia might have a whole different presentation of what I find. That's why one drug is not going to work for everyone. And that's true for all kinds of different chronic problems. So the first thing I do, so there's a three parts to it first is I see how the body's detoxified. That's key because nothing will work unless your body detoxifies optimally, adequately. So I look at all the different detoxification organs, the liver, the lung, the colon, the lymph, the skin, and see how they are working adequately. Based on that, I might utilize certain homeopathic remedies that I use or other kinds of detox products. I have on my website now that just launched enzyme detox weight management program. Sometimes that really is helpful. Detox is very important. Unfortunately, as you know, we live in a toxic world and we don't even know just mold. Many people come to see me, I find mold and they said, no, there's no way. And then I go and they go, I have it tested. Sure enough, there's mold that they're living with that could be so dangerous to the health. I believe it can be. Sometimes causes cancer, like breast cancer. I've seen it in my practice years and years. Lymphoma, you know, because we wonder why are all these people getting lymphoma? Sometimes it's things you don't even know. That's what ECM can do is. Can see that. And I love, for me, it's so. It's amazing. I mean, I love coming into my work and doing this every day because truly I see miracles, I would imagine.

So you start off with kind of the detox process, looking at all the various organs and.

Yeah, right, right.

And how they're functioning, whether the liver or whether it's the lungs, whether it's the lymph system.

Right.

What do you do next?

So after that, that's number one. After that, like if this is the evaluation process, then I look at digestive issues and what you're not digesting. Are you protein intolerant? Are you carbohydrate intolerant? Are you fat intolerant? Are you fiber? Are you all of them? And I recommend a digestive enzyme. And I look at, of course, all the food sensitivities, et cetera, which most people have, but most people are not aware of because true allergies are not that common. We hear about it because they can be fatal. Food sensitivities are ubiquitous.

That's a good point.

Yeah. And then the third thing is I look at all the underlying factors of this person's symptoms. So let's say fibromyalgia, they have muscle pain, they have headaches, they have insomnia, brain fog, muscle weakness, muscle aching. What are the underlying root causes? Is it not detoxifying? Is it food? Is it endocrine, Is it cardiovascular, is it neurological? Is it emotional? Which is very common.

Yeah.

Eventually for everyone, there's some emotions, ptsd, some things that.

How could there not be? Yeah.

Is it geopathic stress? It Is it emf? This is all part of the evaluation process. And it's such an eye opening for people to see that. And they're so happy that somebody finally can understand what is the root causes and getting to somebody. And you mentioned early on about COVID in my new book, I have a whole new chapter on enzymes and pandemic. I see a lot of people with long Covid because there's long colds, there's long other viruses as well that I've been finding for years with people with ecm. But. And everybody's different with the long Covid. But I See it a lot. What are the underlying roots of it? A lot of times they haven't cleared that virus, that mutation of that variant yet. It's still bothering them. Even though they're tested? No. And they're maybe not contagious. They are still dealing with that COVID virus. Isn't that interesting?

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Yeah, it really is. I, and, and I think even people are looking at, you know, what's the impact and influence. Also the vaccination, you know, or the, the, the shots themselves. We kind of hold that for right now and see if we can find our way back to it later. But I want to, I want to highlight, because I think it's so unique. ECM is based on a, on a technology that is related to AI and has quantum physics woven into it as well. This is a pretty spectacular approach you're getting here and you're getting to the root cause and you are allowing people to finally heal. Talk a little bit about some of the, you know, the software that you've developed and ways that this is helping to access the body, to determine really what is going on. That's gotta be so relieving for people to find out. But talk about the software, the physics, you know, the quantum physics piece of it, the AI piece of it. This is truly innovative.

Yes. Well, you know, I been through many different machines and many different people I've worked with over the years. And the one I use now is called Avatar. And Bob Eames is the actual creator of this machine who maybe 30 years ago tried to get me to use his machine at that point. And I didn't because he wasn't a doctor. And I tried, you know, and it ended up, you know, now for the last 20 years, he's incredible. He's a genius. Because I had all this stuff in my head and for somebody to understand what I wanted to do and put a program together, he did, he understood what I wanted, which is not easy at all.

Well, he caught your vision, it sounds like.

Yeah, so it was, that's. It was. It's very, you know, it's, it's because I've tried other people, they couldn't quite get it. And, and, and Bob is incredible. And so it's. Again, it's an energetic testing system. So it really gets to the subconscious because a lot of times what I find is not obvious for people, it's more subconscious. But it takes a certain education, it takes a certain commitment to, to really learning how to do the testing properly. The testing is probably the hardest thing to find. Readings that can be reproduced and is accurate, that's what's important. That's what I, that's what I teach. And as people learn and it takes a while, it takes a few years to really become adept at the testing process. And then going through this, I must have thousands of items on the software. So for example, people come in and say, look, I have the genetic tendency, the genetic SNPs for APOF. For Alzheimer's. My mother had Alzheimer's. Can you help me? So I don't get Alzheimer's. I have a whole library on anti aging that covers almost everything that's involved to this day that I've read that's on this machine. And I can test them and see what is underlying that and what we can do to clear those reactivities, clear those sensitivities so that yes, you can prevent hopefully that neurogenerative disease from occurring for you and as well as something like talking suits.

So I would love to further appreciate this. So you've developed a software that can access the body in ways that helps identify issues and often offer remedies, whether it's nutrition or other ways to remove some of these blocks or areas of significance in the software. So kind of paint a picture for me. I walk into your office and the software itself is interesting because it utilizes a wand or a pen. You're saying if I, if I've understood this right, but I'd love you to kind of illustrate it for us better. It goes over the body and it will show, yeah, those can, those can see it. That will show up with data that you're able to read. And that data in ways helps identify what these issues that are underlying and maybe to date, not really fully understood, share this process of how you do this. If I'm laying Down and you bring me in. What would I be experiencing with you?

And I do this also in indirectly. I zoom with people. And there's software now that's been developed. We can do that so that I can do it with you just now. And testing you, you know, it's like. Yeah, but a lot of people do like to come and sit with me here and, you know, and they hold this. This other part to it, this piece. And then I test them on a particular part of their hand up against the computerized program I have that's connected to this avatar instrument.

It sounds very much like an imaging process.

Yeah. And they get a reading, and it's a high and low reading.

Okay.

And then based on the way I test something that goes up very high, is very inflammatory, and something that drops is very allergic or very sensitive too, based on that, I'm able to detect there. So. So, for example, let's say you come in, I put all your symptoms in. I look at all those symptoms, and I have a whole protocol of what to do. Look at the detox, look at the digestion, look at the enzymes, look at the underlying core. Look at food sensitivities, you know, endocrine. Is it a thyroid problem? Is it deficiencies? Is it emotional? Is it a pathogen? That's a big one. I really do feel, Doctor, that most underlying health issues have some pathogens that have never been cleared that are still there, especially something like with Alzheimer's. I do strongly believe virus is a huge aspect to it. It could be any virus. It could be a herpes virus, could be Epstein Barr virus. It could be an influenza virus, too. And they never cleared it, and it's still affecting them. I truly believe that's true. Even more viruses than anything else, too. And that's why people with long Covid, all of a sudden, Epstein Barr shows up, or some of the other herpes shows up that they had, that they never realized they had, and that's why they're so sick afterwards that they're not feeling better, because they're still reacting to those other viruses.

So when you have something become identified and you're beginning to get clear about, okay, this is what I'm seeing as being you've got this whole formulary that sounds like holistically, not just kind of let's prescribe this, but holistically takes a look at almost like another level. This formula takes a kind of a very holistic look at thoroughly understanding all the possible contributions to what's going on. Some of the root causes that Then you can begin to take a look at and what's blocking it. Take us into then what this clearing process is that you're naming here for us.

So the clear. You know, the clearing process is two part just information is clearing. Just knowing that, you know, we're information beings just knowing what is going on. They already feel better sitting here.

Well, I would imagine that some folks.

Are just being believed. Yeah.

Just having some people being believed that this is real. Right. And you're finally seeing it.

Right. And then there is. Then I develop this clearing process that. That's. You can cuss certain aspects of the spine while your body's connected with this imprinting of this energetic what you found. And by clearing it, your. Your body's changing the brain's way of looking at it so it's able to clear it. So it's like the spine. Because the spine is a good place to do that because all the nerves go to the brain, go to all parts of the body. You're able to clear that specific or those specific sensitivities. And you do it. It's like you're snapping them out of that by. By doing this. And then they go home with a bio I have or crystals that are imprinted with the story, with this, what went on. And they continue to reinforce the clearing at home to clear these sensitivities. And then they come in the next time and I check them and see what cleared. And a lot clears. And it should clear permanently once it's done, once you get to the root of it, all of what that sensitivity is about, it should be clear. It shouldn't. That's why even emotional stuff, because I had. When I was nine years old, I was kidnapped and I was molested by somebody, and I was away from my home for a few days, and I don't even remember some of it. I just remember being kidnapped and remember where they found me naked in my stairwell in my home. And never talked to anyone about it. But I was able to quit because. And I had a patient who brought me to his home in Bahamas to work on his whole family. And we went out at night. I never talked to anyone about it. Even my husband didn't know. And he started talking about that this was one of his things that he gave. One of the things a nonprofit was helping women who have been raped, et cetera, because his daughter had the same issue. And all of a sudden I started crying and I said, let me tell you my story. And he said, ellen, you need to write about this because I helped myself clear that through my work. He says most women that go through what you go through cannot be successful. And you need people to know that. You can transcend it, you can clear it, you can be successful in your life. And I have a book that I wrote. I have not published it yet because it's intense because it's so personal. And, you know, my family, even though they know a little bit about it, they don't know the whole story. So at some point I will. So ECM can help with those emotional traumas.

Yeah. I really appreciate your transparency in sharing that. And I, I could see, you know, you're talking about this idea of, you know, blocks in our lives, and they can be emotional, they can be food sensitivities, they can be, you know, other more chronic things that come into play, but they are very real. And you're saying this clearing process, which gets to use kind of acupressure techniques and breathing and tapping on the spine, you know, getting the brain to kind of realign with some things and really accurate, you know, more aligned ways. But I love what you're raising here, that everybody you is unique in their root causes. And what I so appreciate is, you know, a lot of times as professionals, we're taught how to use hammers. And so all we see are nails, you know, and we stay very narrow and sometimes rigid in both our diagnostic process and also in our process of coming up with a treatment plan. But what you're doing, you're talking about the emotions, the, the relational roles in one's life, hormones, environmental factors. It's very thorough as well as, you know, taking a look at the, you know, how's the, how are the lungs doing and how's the liver doing and how's the lymph system? It's so thorough in this. And you really want to understand a person and all of the complexities, don't you?

Yes. And I appreciate what you said about chiropractors. You know, the, the one profession that there's so many different techniques that chiropractors do. Of all the different professions, chiropractors are so broad scoped.

Yeah.

And what they're about is getting to the root. I feel like chiropractors do that instead of just giving medicine, you know, And I, I, I, I think I appreciate chiropractors more than I've ever appreciated as I get older, honestly.

Yeah. You know what, I like this about this too. You're kind of holding up this idea is if we can get to the root cause and we can do this clearing. You allow somebody to reclaim or maybe for the very first time claim.

Yes.

Their true self and how they get to be living in the world without these blocks and the secondary problems that come with them.

Right. My husband always says it's like a Buddhist method of treatment, you know, because, well, it gets to your true self, you know, and you understand your happiness. It helps with being more mindful too.

Right.

You know, because if you don't feel well, your mind is so preoccupied with that, with pains and inflammation, et cetera too. And clearing this and seeing that it can be cleared is revolutionary, really. And so healing, when you do the.

Clearing and then you ask somebody to come back in, do you get to do a post test with the imaging that you have? And someone gets to see that, hey, what was here is now here. And it's. That's gotta be so fun.

It's good. And it's kind of a little, you know, people get addicted to. You know, I have not been able to take new patients for years because people, once they discover this, they never leave it.

Well, I was going to ask you. For 30 years, I was going to ask you that. So I come in, let's say I've got an issue, and you clear that. And I can verify that by, you know, the, the imaging, you know, showing us that we had a pre post and here's the post. What, what, what would. I might be. I, I get kind of excited and I say, well, what else can I clear? I would come back.

Yeah. Well, you come in and I say, well, how are you doing? Well, I, I'm a little emotional. I'm having issues with my son. I, you know, should I take a statin or should I not take a statin? You know, my doctor tells me, so we can explore all that. If we lived in a cave, we might not need this kind of work, but we don't. We're in relationships, we work stress, we, you know, our diet's not perfect and you know, genetics too, that come into play. So, so when someone sits down, they're a new person every time, you know, and it's pand like someone says, it's Pandora's box. You just keep peeling off the onion, Right?

Yeah.

And you get to some other core issues for sure. And there's things that are passed down from generation to generation, even emotional stuff that's in our cells that you get to look at. So I'm, I'm always surprised. It's always incredible what I find every day. You wouldn't Believe it. People wouldn't believe it. Well, I just had this great. Bob called me yesterday and he said, you know, there's. There's somebody doing cancer research that would like to talk to you about your work. It's. He's hard for him to get around all of this, you know, And I'm like, my goal in life is to do some research with this because really I've had such great results with asthma, with headaches, even with cancer prevention. I would love to see this work become more mainstream. I know that's a big leap.

That's a wonderful leap, though. Well, what, what a wonderful leap. What if we can do these things without having to rely upon medicine all the time? And what if our bodies have an inherent healing tendency and they want to heal? They want to right themselves, if you will. Looking at the analogy of a kind of a ship that's tipped. What if they. What if we want to right ourselves, but what if those blocks are keeping us from being able to do so in ways that we don't even know exist?

Right.

And I love the idea of a non medical approach. As many times as we can, whether it's through therapy or whether it's through what you're doing, there are some things that can really be worked through. I know we're kind of coming to the end of our time, but I want to toss out a couple more questions. Give us the. And probably, I'm sure it varies, but give me the top three main things that people come into that come in to see you with that are their main blocks. What do you find? Some of the common blocks being.

One of them is fatigue. I've been tired my whole life.

All right.

You know, I've tried everything. Nothing works. You know, I exercise, you know, whatever. I can't lose weight. That's another one. I go on these diets and then I get. Go off, I gain a right back and how come I can't maintain my weight? That's why I put out this new program on my website. And, and the third thing is digestive stuff. Bloating, irritable bowel or GERD is another one. All the digestive things. And then the fourth one is Lyme.

Okay.

A lot of people with Lyme that, that gets. I have doctors that send me because they say, Dr. Ellen, can you test see what you get and what you recommend and blah, blah, blah. And so I work a lot with other doctors.

Yeah, that's really good.

Lyme disease is a Lyme disease. And I've had really great Results I've had cures with it.

That's so good. I had a friend who went through that and for about a year and a half, he just really struggled. And this is an athletic, strong, you know, robust young man. And oh, my goodness, it really robbed him of some really significant parts of his life. You know, you were talking, I appreciate kind of naming the main blocks. And you talked earlier about everybody shouting. Be looking into a digestive enzyme. I also want to ask you, what foods would you recommend that everybody include in their food choices?

Well, of course, I'm a vegan, but not every. I'm a raw vegan, but not everyone can be a raw vegan. They could be a friendly raw vegan. So I think everyone, if you can do 75% of your diet, should be a whole plant food diet, whatever one you else you want to do. Otherwise, at 30%, if you want to have some meat, it's, you know, everybody needs to do what they feel. I strongly believe in the veganism is the healthiest diet. Yeah, People talk about carnivores and whatever. You know, I can't get behind it no matter what.

Yeah, I get it. So just a really good foundation of what grows on our ground.

Yeah, yeah. So. And that's what I feel, you know, and I mean, to this day, even a Mediterranean diet always stands out. And what is it? They have vegetables, a lot of vegetables, you know.

Yeah.

I do recommend low salts or no salt and low fat as well. That's, that's my recommendation. And chewing your food well, take your digestive enzyme with your meals, for sure.

Really good. Well, as we wind down today, I would love for you to leave us and our listeners with kind of just a. A message of hope that blocks are going to be a common thing in our lives because we have a life that's complicated and there's many different aspects and dimensions to it. So we're all going to have something. And there's, you know, a number of ways to have these things looked at. But leave us with a message about the power of ecm, learning more about it, a practitioner that might be trained in it and the hope that someone can have by going maybe through this process.

I do truly believe that when I, when someone comes to see me, I don't look at them as sick, I look at them as healthy.

Yeah. Just blind.

And I think that's really important for every doctor.

Yeah.

You know, that they're not sick, they're healthy. There's nothing that can't be overcome. And I strongly believe in being grateful for what you have in exercising, eating well, you know, it can't be maybe all the time, but you know, four or five days a week eating well, you know, and to look at ECM and I am open to teaching everyone. I used to just teach health practitioners but I, I'm now teaching everyone because I found after the pandemic mothers and fathers want to be able to treat their family themselves. And if you, if I tell you some of the amazing results these people are getting in their family, it's not that, you know, they don't have a practice for other but just their family. Kids have been so sick with allergies so long that they, they're like bubble kids, you know. And so you can learn about it. I love teaching it. I want more people to learn so they can go ahead and teach as well. And so look at my website. It's on my website. You can learn more about it. And my new book, this is an older book that was revised. Micro Miracles Discover the Healing Power of Enzymes just came out a few weeks ago and it has a whole expanded chapter on anti aging and on the pandemic and enzymes. And this is such a good book because it talks about food sensitivities and the power of enzymes.

Really good.

So anyways that's, you know, we'll segue.

Us into what segue us into. If folks want to follow up after the show to learn more about you, look at your book. How would they find you?

So My website is Dr. Ellencutler.com and I talk all about ECM digestive enzymes and the new detox weight loss enzyme program, weight management program that we've had so many people now that are doing. So I'm excited about it because I've used it for 40 something years and finally decided to make it available and, and I have some enzymes that I created myself that are on there too that I recommend also if you're interested. And my Facebook is micro miracles and I always, every Monday I do a miracle Monday little video. So that's my Facebook, Instagram, I don't do that much but I do more Facebook.

So very good.

I just don't have the time. I still have a full time practice.

So try to on top of everything else.

And I'm a grandmother and I love being a grandmother.

Congrats. That's awesome. Well Ellen, congrats on all the things you're doing and what a, what a great vision you had and congratulations on what you have brought to fruition and its benefit in people's lives. And thanks for what you're doing in that area and what a nice contribution to people's lives. It's been great to have you with us today.

This was excellent. Thank you for the great and this was really, really one of the best.

Well, you're very kind and I've had a really nice time with you as well. Thank you again for being here today.

Thank you.

Also want to thank you, our listeners, for dropping by and joining Ellen and me today. It's always great to have you with us regarding our episode today. I want to remind you that it and an archive of all of our other episodes and resource materials can be found on our webpage@triadhq.com BHT thanks again for joining us on the show and we'll look forward to having you back with us next time on Behavioral HEALTH today. We appreciate all the support from our community and if you like our show, one of the best ways you can support it is by giving us a five star rating and leaving a review. Behavioral Health Today is a podcast part of the Tribe Network. All rights reserved.