049: Helping Your Husband Be a Father When He Didn’t Have One | Clint Edwards

Grab a cup of tea or listen as you go, ladies. This is your hour with Dr. Zoe, your life and relationship coach. With encouragement, on-point insight, inspiring guests, health tips, and advice, Dr. Zoe helps busy women keep their mind in the game by redefining your superwoman. You're listening to the Dr. Zoe Show.

Welcome to the Dr. Zoe Show, redefining your superwoman. I'm your host, Dr. Zoe. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist with a doctorate in clinical psychology. I'm a life and relationship coach and a motivational speaker, and I can work with you virtually to help you get unstuck. My passion is helping women find their superpower, learn to embrace it, and share it with the world. So connect with me by texting the word join to 38470 or go to my website at drzoeshaw.com. Disclaimer: Disclaimer, I have a summer cold. Yuck. So my voice is sounding a little off today, and that's why, and you'll hear it in the interview as well. So our show topic today is helping your father be a better father when he didn't have one. I had a great conversation with Clint Edwards, who has blown up as a daddy blogger and author. If you're struggling with a husband who isn't quite the father you hoped he would be, maybe because he didn't have a role model to begin with, then this episode is for you. And newsflash, you probably wanna share it with your hubby. I don't think that there are any cataclysmic answers, but hearing from the point of view of a father who is trying to be the best dad that he can be, and he's succeeding at it despite not having the role model, means that it's possible for any dad. So go out and buy his book. And this guy, he brings necessary humor to this crazy life of parenting. So I know you'll really enjoy listening to Clint, uh, with this episode. But first, Superwoman Win. So I've been talking Talking about my Ask Dr. Zoe column, and it launched on July 28th. It was a great success. I'll probably keep talking about this, but I am diligently answering questions, and they are rolling in and piling up, and I'm not getting overwhelmed. That's what I'm saying to myself. I'm actually very touched by the amount of pain that you women carry. I'm also really inspired by the amount of strength and courage that you have to ask the difficult questions. And so I'm really thankful to the Grit and Grace Project for creating. a platform for me to help you and for you to help yourselves. And I'm honored to be able to walk just a teeny tiny step in your journey. And I hope that my answers give those who read some insightful help tips. So ask away, ladies. You guys can certainly participate in that as well and feel free. You can always just email me questions too. So my Superwoman fail. A couple of weeks ago, I talked about my Superwoman win being that the tooth fairy remembered on the first night. I should have been knocking on some wood. Because I spoke too soon. Apparently we have teeth falling out right and left at my house. And so my other daughter, she actually had 2 teeth pulled at the dentist because the teeth were coming in on top of the other teeth. The other ones weren't coming out. Anyway, she's 12 and she has some developmental delays and still very much believes in the tooth fairy. So she diligently put her teeth under her pillow and that darn tooth fairy forgot all about it. Is our house the only one that has a forgetful tooth fairy? It's, ugh. So I just need some people to share with me about this so I don't feel alone. But the good thing is that the very next night, and of course we had the conversation, darn that forgetful tooth fairy. Once again, she didn't show up. Must've been a busy night. She took it in stride because like I said, I let all my kids know that they have a forgetful tooth fairy. So the next night she got a ton of money because, you know, when the tooth fairy forgets, they got to double up on the money. So that was my fail. And oh, I wanted to ask you ladies about the Mary Shore's Daily Desires Diary. I'm actually doing it. And so I wanted to know how that was going, uh, with any ladies who might be practicing it. I know I, I actually heard back from one person who said that they were writing their daily desires. So just curious how that's going with everybody else. And next up, Mr. Clint Edwards, helping your husband be a father when he didn't have one. So Clint Edwards, you were blessed with a charming and spitfire wife, a video game obsessed little boy, a snarky little girl in a Cinderella play dress, and an angry baby girl. When you were 9 years old, your father left with no example of fatherhood, and you had to learn how to be a father and a husband through trial and error. I have all this stuff I've looked up about you and read about you, so I'm going to kind of go down your little History or resume. So with stinging wit, laugh-out-loud humor, and brutal honesty, Clint brings to life what every parent and spouse eventually learns but refuses to say out loud to each other. His essays include All the Things I Never Should Have Said to My Pregnant Wife, Just Because I Get Up in the Night Doesn't Mean I Deserve Praise, and Contrary to My Original Assumption, You Have a Favorite Child, or you can have a favorite child, which is very interesting. His essays will have parents everywhere shaking their heads, yes, yes, yes. Clint Edwards' blog, No Idea What I Am Doing, has over 144,000 Facebook likes. I'm sure that's not accurate right now. He's a staff writer for Scary Mama, Disney's Babble, and Little Things. He's a parenting contributor to the Washington Post and Huffington Post. You've been featured on Good Morning America and written for the New York Times and many other high-traffic online publications. He lives in Oregon and has 3 children. Oh, and he's the author of— 2 books. I'm Sorry, Love Your Husband: Honest, Hilarious Stories from a Father Who Made All the Mistakes and Made Up for Them. What an introduction. I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Yes, I'm a little flattered myself. I don't know where all that got collected, but thank you.

I know, and it has over the course of the years. So, so how old are your kids now, Clint?

So my son Tristan is 11, and he is in that kind of preteen phase. So the big arguments right now are over hygiene.

Oh gosh, yes.

His underwear doesn't like to be changed, and he doesn't really know. I'll ask him like, when was it changed? And he just shrugs. So it seems like something I'd love him to have an answer for at some point. He used a napkin the other day, and so I used that as like a Facebook moment, you know, right? Yeah, goal-setting sort of thing.

It's a parental victory. Something you're putting in there is getting out.

Yes. Yes. And then I have my daughter, Nora is 9 and she's really funny and she's really bright and she has a very good sense of humor, but she also really knows what she wants and when she wants it. And so I want her to be a very strong-willed woman. I just have to live with her right now as a strong-willed little lady.

Exactly.

So we're navigating that right now. Aspen is 4 and she is like living with a wild animal.

So is she still angry?

So she was kind of a grumpy little baby and now she's just really funny.

Aww.

She has a lot to say and she says the most random things. In fact, I just had an essay on my Facebook page really take off because I had an incident in a gas station and had to use the restroom very quickly and had to bring her in with me, which, you know, I think all parents have been there.

Yes.

And she just cheered me on. She was just like, you're doing so good, Dad. You're doing so good. I'm so proud of you. Oh

my gosh.

I called her the Richard Simmons of pooping because I have never felt so supported in anything in my whole life.

Oh, that's hilarious. And I can see why that just took off. Well, obviously, as already previously described, you have amazing wit and humor for these sometimes difficult parts of parenting and I can see why everything you've done actually has pretty much taken off. So can you tell me what's your story and how did you get to this point where you are now kind of the poster man for doing it all wrong and all right all at the same time?

Oh, I— wow. I don't know if I would give myself that specific title. I think I still make more mistakes than what I get right. But what I can say is I started writing about my family and my children about 5 years ago. I mean, I've been writing for years, but that was when I really started the blog and started focusing on my kids and my wife and stuff like that. And I think the best thing I ever figured out was to write about my family, to really think about them and really ask myself these questions, you know, could I be getting it wrong? Mm-hmm. And if I'm getting it wrong, how could I get it right? And there are times that like, multiple times that I've been writing about something and thinking, man, why? Why is this standing out in my head? And then it will dawn on me that I was being a jerk. And I'm like, oh, well, I'll be. And so I will go down and I will apologize to my wife. I'll be like, listen, I didn't realize what I was doing there, but I was totally being a jerk there. And then I'm able to finish the essay. So I think that, I guess that acceptance that I probably am getting it wrong and I want to get it right. And, you know, being willing to apologize. I mean, that's the book, the new book, I'm Sorry, Love Your Husband, is all, it's just a collection of apologies. It's all the ways I've messed up. I'm not saying anything illegal, but I have made some mistakes and I was willing to say, hey, that was stupid of me. How can I learn from it?

So, it sounds like what you're telling me is that your trick/superpower is probably that you are able to self-reflect. You're able to look at what you're doing, question yourself, which is so very important. If we don't question ourselves, if we don't question why we believe what we believe, if we don't question why we're doing what we're doing, we are not going to grow. You self-reflect and you share your stuff and people connect with it.

I guess that's, that's it. I mean, I know this new book, when I, when I first pitched the idea to the press— Page Street is what I'm working with, and they're kind of this independent press. They're distributed by Macmillan, which is like, it's like a small press with like a big distributor. Yeah, I sent them this pitch for like a parenting book and they reached out to me and we had like an hour conversation and they basically just said, we like your writing, we think you're really funny, you're really good at connecting. You got a good following, but, you know, your book idea sucks.

And I

was like, oh, well, thank you. So the whole point was to talk about it. And they said, you know, the stuff that really hits home is whenever you're saying you're sorry.

Yeah.

Whenever you're admitting you're doing something wrong. And I guess the more I've done it, it seems like the more— I think there are a lot of men in particular that don't want to admit that they're wrong

or

admit that they've made a mistake. And that quality, I think, is I've been married for almost 14 years. And if you think you can get through marriage without saying you're sorry, like, you're already starting—

Really bad foundation.

Yeah, that's a bad place to start. Because you're gonna, you're gonna struggle. Being willing to say, hey, that was dumb. And let's try and learn from it and grow and change. I think that's probably the best thing you can do as a husband and as a wife and as a parent.

And that's why I wanted you to come on the show today. So I'm so glad you're here. And I wanted you to come on this show so that you can talk to women who are walking life, sharing life, you know, doing the parenting thing with a husband who doesn't have a role model— or didn't, I should say— of a father. And so I'm not talking about the, you know, father who took off. I'm not talking about an abusive dad. I'm talking about what I would call a present-absent dad, a dad who's kind of trying to do it But not quite getting there. And when I think about that, I think about stories of people in my life and clients who, you know, maybe had a dad who was not abusive but not present, a dad who didn't teach their kid how to ride a bike, or a dad who felt like maybe because he didn't have one, that him just being there and providing for the family made him a good dad. And now this boy who didn't experience a father who fathered him, but maybe a father who was there, is now trying to parent his own children with no roadmap. And from what I understand, you kind of have a similar situation, correct?

Well, yeah, I mean, my father, I mean, he was an early victim of the opioid epidemic. So he died when I was 19.

Oh, okay.

And he left when I was 9. He died divorcing his 4th wife.

Wow.

You know, the best relationship I had with my father was when he was in jail because I knew where I could catch him. I knew where I could find him. I knew when his visiting hours were. I knew he would pick up the phone if I called during a certain time. And so when I became a dad, it was like, whoa. And that's part of the reason— so like, the reason I named my blog No Idea What I'm Doing is because I really felt like I didn't know what I was doing.

Right.

It's kind of a funny, you know, name for a blog, but there really is kind of a serious bite there.

Mm-hmm.

Because I just didn't— I didn't know. And the more I've gotten into it, the more I started to realize that A lot of fathers don't know, and they don't understand what they're getting into. And parenting has changed so much from when, you know, my father was raising children. Not that he did, you know, was really around that much. But

yeah,

and so much of it— I've— at least this is just me from writing and writing on the topic and thinking about it and interacting with other people— is so much of it comes down to like gender scripts.

Mm-hmm.

There are these ideas that this is what I ought to do as a father, and many of them are rooted in this kind of '50s idea of bringing the bacon type of stuff. And as much as we want to think that we've moved away from that script, it's still very, very present. And some examples that I see are— so I was a stay-at-home dad for a little while, and when I would take my kids to the grocery store or I would take them to the park, people would ask me, oh, did you lose your job? You know? Right. And I'm like, no, no, I just— my wife's doing something and I'm taking some time off from my work, you know? Or they'd say, You're babysitting. Oh, good thing. Good job, Dad. You're babysitting. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. You know, even just like, it was like 2 weeks ago, I had a friend of mine. He said, well, I guess he's my friend. He's my accountant, right? I guess we're friends. And he was over at my house for dinner and we'd never actually met face to face. And he was talking about how he took his kids on a plane ride all by himself. And it was 3 young children. And he had like a mother on the plane, like took one of the kids and like helped him out. And like people like gave him a, like a little applause when he got off. Yes. And I was like, that's cool and all, and I'm really proud of him for doing that. I don't want to like turn down praise for any parent because parenting is really difficult, and so you should be praising everybody. But I have seen a million mothers wandering the airport with like 800 bags saddled across them and a child asking them to hold something or to get some candy or whatever, and nobody applauded. Nobody gave them a pat on the back because it's like this expected thing. And so stuff like that, like Being able to strip away all those shoulds and ought-tos and look at a relationship from an egalitarian angle and say, what can we do with our skill set the best rather than what we ought to be doing based on our gender, was one of the best things I could have done for our marriage.

I love that because as you tell that story, I think about a friend of mine who is a guy and he's a single dad and he had a business meeting to go to and there was Issues with childcare, which happens. He takes his daughter to the business meeting and the women are like fawning over him, fawning over his daughter. It's so amazing. You're such a great dad. And I remember looking at him and going, if I took my kids to a business meeting, I'd get dirty looks. And people would look at me like, what's wrong with you? You don't have it together. You know, why are you as a mom doing that? But a dad does it and it's amazing. And that's absolutely true.

Oh, I don't, you know, like the work, working as a parent is It's hard. Like, I will take time off and I'll be like, hey, I'm gonna take the day off. My child is sick. Mel and I both work, so we take turns being home when the kids are sick. In fact, there's a chapter in my new book about this because she kind of called me out on it. She's like, because she started working, she's like, why am I always staying home when the kids are sick? And like an idiot, I said, oh, because I make more money. And then it was like I had boarded the Titanic and I wasn't gonna make it to America. And so, and it was one of those other moments where I was like, I was falling into that script again. That just seems to be the default sometimes. But at work, it's interesting because, you know, the women I work with are like, oh, that's so great. You're so supportive. But then like the supervisors are like, really? You know, you don't have someone to handle that? You really should be— I remember when I finally had paternity leave as a grown dad, you know, I got pulled aside by my supervisor and said, you know, you really shouldn't be using all of this. You know, your wife can handle it.

Wow.

Your children are going— and it was— and I think back on it and probably the conversation was illegal.

Yes.

But at the time, it's just like I was intimidated. I was new to this job, new to my boss. I didn't want to blow it. It's just this interesting pressure on both sides to try and be a parent and try to do the things that just have to be done to raise children and yet still be in the working world. It's not easy for either gender.

No, I think you're absolutely right. And I think dads get confused and it's like, well, what do you want me to do? And I think that 50 years ago, In some ways, you know, our roles were structured and we knew what was going on. But the issue, I think, and why we need to talk about this more is because women are not predominantly stay-at-home moms anymore. And parenting is, even for stay-at-home moms, is a very different construct than it was before. And there's so much more pressure and so many more things that even stay-at-home moms are doing, and we require help. And additionally, we all know research shows that kids who are parented by both parents, not just, you know, physically but emotionally and psychologically, do better. And kids do need both parents to participate in the parenting. And so for a dad who doesn't get that, and maybe it sounds like you were there at some point, for women, my question is, number one, what are we doing wrong? And trying to help you guys step up? Basically, how can we help you help us?

You know, it's one of those things that it's like, I think the more I've gotten into it, I think there are more dads that are stepping up. I think there are more dads that are seeing the relationship with their children as something they want to be involved with and that they will. But at the same time, you know, there are a lot of fathers that aren't Doing it. I think we're as parents in a very transitional state right now, where there are a lot of dads that want to be involved. Some of the dads I work with are like way better dads than I am, way more involved.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, they need— probably need to grow in other ways too, like everybody. But I mean, you know, just the idea of like a stay-at-home mom. I mean, I remember when my wife was a stay-at-home mom and I was working, it was kind of this mind-blowing thing when I realized— this was probably 4 or 5 years ago— that I realized that, you know, when I work late, She works late. You know,

yeah,

we got no family around here. We live in Oregon, most of our family's in Utah. Like, she doesn't have anybody to drop these kids off with. And so if I have to stay late, she has to work. If I have to work a weekend, she's working weekends. And so I'm all she's got. And accepting that and realizing that really was something that kind of like, I really should start to think about calculating my time and how I do it.

Right. Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I agree with you that Dads are for sure across the board on a whole stepping up, no doubt about it. But for that dad who feels like, you know what, I'm doing better than my dad, and so I'm cool, I'm a good dad because, you know, my dad wasn't there and I'm doing better than that, so that must mean I'm a good dad. And then you have moms on the other side that are frustrated feeling like, but, you know, you're not connecting with our kids, or you're not necessarily meeting their emotional needs, or yeah, you taught them how to, you know, ride a bicycle, but I still feel like the majority of the parenting is on me. I'm just wondering what kinds of things we can do as moms to help from a dad perspective. What kinds of things do you think will help get through to them more?

You know, that's, that's a big question that I don't even know if I can answer.

Well, what did your wife do? Because like you said, you started out kind of, I don't know what to do. Tell me what ways she supported you.

The best thing that ever happened in our marriage was was for me to start reflecting and writing about it and for me to take that action. But how do you get up, you know, how do you get dad to do that? How are you going to take that leap, you know, and be interested in it? I'm very grateful to have a wife that is pretty frank.

Mm-hmm.

She will tell me in a very blunt way what she is feeling or expecting. And we've gotten to the point where that open communication is key. And I think that's where— I think that's where a lot of fathers are intimidated, is to be that open. And to be that communicative. And I think there are a lot of women out there that are afraid to really lay it on the table because they're afraid they're going to offend their husband or make him feel worse. I mean, there— I don't think there is like a blanket, like one-step tip to fix all of this.

Sure.

Or if it even really is, I think it's like this constantly growing process. And really, like, I mean, listening to your spouse, listening to your children, it's much of a larger, harder answer than you can possibly imagine, and it's like a constant work. I mean, just the other day, my son, he has this teacher, Mr. Church, that he is completely infatuated with. He loves the guy, and he is like the coolest dude. He's like way younger than me, and which makes me feel old, but he is like a cool, good teacher. Right. And we had him over for dinner, so we're talking to him and he's bringing up all this stuff about my son that I'm like, I didn't know any of this, you know? Like, he's listing these books that he's read, and I'm like, I didn't know he read that book. Or like, I asked my son every day, you know, how was school? And he like shrugs, you know? He's like, yeah, it was fun. And then come to find out they had like a full funeral for like a gummy bear eraser.

Aww.

And I was like, what? Like, this is hilarious. And so Mr. Church told all these stories. And so, you know, that night I sat next to my son in bed and I said, listen, man, I want you to know that what he was bringing up, I didn't know any of this stuff. So we're gonna— I'm gonna ask you some questions and you're gonna answer them. And so I just started asking questions about his life and different things I didn't know. And he was like, oh, okay, well, I'll answer these questions. But I think there are a lot of dads that when they would hear something like that, they might take offense or realize that, hey, you know, feel bad about themselves or not feel like a good father and then do nothing. Mm-hmm. And I think really taking that moment to take action is huge. And talking to your spouse about communication and listening and communicating between the two is a big deal. But how exactly to get a father to turn that on, I don't know. I think it's like a huge baby step thing. And it's one of those things that you've just got to continually try to work at and figure out. That's what like really reflecting on my fatherhood has helped me out anyways, is to just take these little baby steps and figure it out as I go.

Yeah, I love this. And maybe this will turn into an episode for dads because I think, I mean, one answer for sure is check out your blog, check out your book because I don't know how many daddy blogs there are out there. I'm sure there's a ton, but there isn't a lot of help for men and their parenting as much as there is for women and their parenting. And even the books that are about just parenting in general even are geared more in terms of the way that they write towards women. And I think that that's something that needs to change.

So check this out. There are a lot of really good dad blogs out there. And there are a lot of dads that are probably way better at this than I am and they're blogging. But it's hard to get men to read.

Yes.

I mean, there's so many things that I will write and post And it's just women tagging their husbands.

Yeah. Like, women are going to be tagging their husbands on this episode. I can tell you that right now.

Listen, like, if your wife tags you in something, read it. Like, she is giving you the answers to the test. She is like, hey, I want you to read this because this is something that I'm concerned with, or I'm worried about, or something that I want you to pay attention to. So this like epic eye roll, or like, oh, my wife's having me read this thing. Like, I remember, I remember seeing there was one point that I put, I think it was the getting up in the night, I don't deserve praise for getting up in the night, a post that really took off a few years ago. And I remember reading in the comments, there was like a spouse and her— it was like a husband and wife, and they were actually arguing in the comments. She's like, you just read this. He's like, it's so long. And she's like, I watched the entire Cubs game for you, you know, cliché like banter going back and forth. And I couldn't help but like laugh at it, but at the same time, the guy's like, I don't want to read this thing. And it couldn't have been more I mean, it's like 800 words.

Yeah, I

mean, come on. So I mean, really take the time to listen. You know, tagging on social media is a form of listening and really paying attention to what your partner is saying.

Mm-hmm. Yes, it is. That's an excellent point. Speaking of, it sounds like maybe you need to have a podcast. Do you?

No.

Listen, more than they'll read.

You know, so I, so So when I first tried to publish a book, right, so many agents, publishers said no one reads parenting books by men. And I heard this from literally hundreds of people.

Wow.

I was really grateful to have this publisher pick up the book. But what I found is the majority of people that are buying my new book right now are women buying it, and then they're reading it together as a couple. And it's bringing up all these conversations of like, is this really how you feel? Or is this, you know, like they're laughing because it's funny, like, and that's a great way to get in. Like, it's a great way if you can get somebody to laughing, they'll listen. That's one of the cool things about the book is that they're reading as a couple and they're starting to have good dialogue and conversation. And the chapters, I wrote them intentionally short, hopeful that, you know, a man would pick them up and read them. And then I have an audiobook coming out soon. And a lot of the guys that are asking for it are like, hey, let's do an audiobook. There you go. I have— I mean, not that I don't respect podcasters because they're awesome, but I have no desire to take on another project at this point.

It is definitely another project. But you know what, the audio version of your book will do The same thing. So

fingers crossed. I told them to get William Shatner. I think he's the only person who could do me justice, but I don't know who they're gonna actually have read the book.

That's hilarious. He used to be my neighbor.

Really?

Yeah.

Well, then this is great. You have an in. Send him a message. Let him know.

Oh, that's hilarious. Okay, so then maybe what I would like for you to do before we finish this out is Give some tips to men because women are going to be sharing this. Give some tips to men who want to be better dads but just don't even know where to start.

You know, the best tip I can give to a dad trying to figure out is to love the mother of your children.

I

mean, if you really love her and you really listen to what she has to say and listen to her and care for her and support her, that will all reflect in your children. They will learn so much from the way you respond to the person you love.

Mm-hmm.

And even if the mother of your children, you're not with her anymore, or it's kind of a complicated situation, you need to respect and listen and work with them. And your children will learn more from that relationship than they will anything. And I think the other— one of the best things you can do too is really, it doesn't have to be a huge amount of time, but you've got to carve out that time and it's got to be regular time.

It

can't be like binge time, you know, we're like, okay, we're gonna take this 3 days off and go camping or something like that. It's gotta be daily interactions with your children.

You know what, research has shown 15 minutes a day per kid of uninterrupted, undistracted attention is really all they need. And that's not that much, 15 minutes.

So speaking of like, you know, camping, and I took the kids camping just recently, and I've been really busy with My other full-time job, I work at a university. And then I've been really busy with this new book and promoting it. So we went camping to kind of reconnect and I was playing catch with Tristan, my son. And I said, listen, man, we got this whole forest and we're out by the coast. There's all this stuff we can look at. Why don't we take a little break? And I was like, we can play catch anywhere. You can play catch anywhere at any time. And he said, yeah, but we don't. And it was this moment where I was like, oh crap. Yeah. He just called me out on it.

Kids will call you out for sure. Oh yeah.

And so we kept playing catch because that's what he wanted to do.

That's beautiful. Bittersweet but beautiful. And you did what you should do as a dad. You heard and you listened. And so I think maybe that's another thing is listening to your kids.

Absolutely. Like if you can, if you can really take the time to listen to what they're trying to say, but it can be hard to get it out of them. Yes. But, you know, I mean, same with like tagging, you know, online, like, like if your young child wants to show you some art, check it out. And don't just say, yeah, that's great. You know what I mean? Like, really ask them questions about it. What did you do here? What is this? And, you know, it might look like a big glob of like boogers, but talking to them and saying, listen, what does this look like? What do you do? What'd you do here? Why'd you do this? And it doesn't take very long, but asking some questions, I don't know, that really, I think, helps them to feel important and it helps them feel like you value what they're doing.

I always think about that saying that kids don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

Sure.

And you've got to be able to establish that foundation of care to be able to pour all the wisdom and all the stuff you want to pour into your kids. If you want it to soak in and you want them to actually receive it, they have to first feel like you care about them. And sometimes we don't come up to that until they're like, you know, your 11-year-old or 12, 13, then all of a sudden we come up against that resistance. But what we don't realize is that we haven't built that foundation of care first.

Well, and I mean, one thing to think about too, most of the people listening right now are going to be women. And they're trying to connect with their husbands, the same how a mother feels like she's pulled in 800 directions. And sometimes physically, we got one kid on each arm. You know what I mean? As you're trying to do this, father feels the same way. Like I feel I'm being pulled for work and trying to provide and like every time, you know, we talk about a home repair, or bettering our lives or vacation, I think to myself how much more I'm gonna need to work to be able to do that because I am like, my wife works, but I am the primary provider.

Mm-hmm.

And then, you know, then there's, you know, you're gonna be pulled in directions with, with your children and then trying to spend time with your spouse and then trying to spend time for yourself. And it just feels like you're tugged in like 800 directions. And I think acknowledging that when approaching somebody, same with like a mother, when you approach her about anything that's going on or a concern, is to be aware that It sounds like that's just like when you're in your mid-30s, early 40s, like you just, you got so many things tugging at you, so many opportunities, and you just wish the world would slow down and take a breath and let you take a breath. But the second that you do, you know, you might be missing it. So I think accepting that and acknowledging it, knowing it, makes it go a long ways.

As a wife, being able to look at her husband and speak that to him so that he feels acknowledged and so that he feels that she understands where he's coming from and that place of feeling torn, and then maybe speaking what she's seeing as a concern?

Yes, I think that would be a great way to start a conversation.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And sometimes we don't think about that because as women, we do feel like it's all on our shoulders. And, and the reality is, is that, you know, the research has shown that even in double-earning households where husbands and wives are both working the same and maybe even making the same amount of money, and where both people are contributing 50% in the household stuff, chores, whatever, women still carry that emotional burden of the household. And so a lot of times women feel that and we feel it strongly, but we're not recognizing either the places that our husband, you know, might feel burdened and the places where he's feeling torn in between all of his responsibilities as well. And I think it goes back to the same concept of people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And if your husband feels like you're Acknowledging that and caring for that aspect of him when you're trying to give him information about your kids or imploring him to do more with them, it might, you know, go a longer way.

Oh, I would think so for sure. Yeah, in so many ways, I think we get lost when it comes to kind of those Marriage 101 tips of just acknowledging each other's struggle, because it is like, I don't know, man, like I love my kids, like they're cool. Yeah, my wife is like the best person ever, like I adore her, But at the same time, like, I mean, this whole marriage gig and raising kids has been the most challenging part of my life. And this includes, you know, my father's abandonment. Yeah. Like, I feel like every day I'm like, whoa, I didn't see that coming. Like, we were driving to McDonald's and suddenly we're talking about puberty. Like, I don't know how that happened. But now I'm like on the fly trying to figure this out. It just sneaks up on you. And so to acknowledge that you're both stressed and tired and trying to figure it out I think goes a long ways.

It does. And it's okay that you don't know what you're doing.

It's very okay to not know what you're doing.

I mean, that's literally what your whole deal is about, is the fact that you can still be a good dad. You can still do the dad thing and jump into it even when you don't know what you're doing. And when we talk about men and knowing what they're doing, now you guys have a rep for, you know, if you don't know how to do it, you probably kind of don't— just kind of want to step back. It's like asking for directions is not usually your thing. And so maybe you can talk a little bit about that.

Well, I mean, I think accepting in my heart that I don't know what I'm doing, but I can still do it. Yeah, I can still be a good dad is huge to be able to just say, okay, and sometimes it's just like when a moment is crazy or chaotic, you're not sure about it, taking a step back and breathing and saying, okay, I don't know how to handle this situation, But I'm gonna jump in is huge. I mean, you know, just, I think it was a couple of weeks ago, you know, we, I took my son to this waterfall. I've been talking a lot about my son on this, but anyways, I took my son to this waterfall where, you know, 'cause we live in rural Oregon, it's just down the road from our house. It's like one of the perks, it's cool, of living here. I have jumped off this waterfall into this like pool of water, you know, 100 times in front of my kids. And we go there and swim all the time. And it's probably like a high dive, you know, it's not super tall or dangerous.

Awesome.

But my son, for the first time, he's like, yeah, I want to try that. And so I take him up there and he just was terrified when he got up there. And he had this look where he's like, man, I, I'm doing this because I kind of want to impress you, is the feeling that I got. And I told him, I'm like, dude, listen, I was probably 13 or 14 before I ever tried something like this. So you're already way ahead of me by doing it. And there are a lot of ways I could have handled this. Like, I think my father would have probably called me the P word. You know what I mean? He told me to get moving, get up there and get going.

Yeah.

And to be able to just step aside and say, you know what, I'm not gonna do it like he did it. I'm gonna take a step back. I'm gonna look at my son and say, you know what? I told him, it's cool, dude. Like, you got up there. You don't have to do it today. You don't ever have to do it because you know what? It's not gonna show up on your college applications. So you're gonna be all right. And he was like, you know, he's like, okay. And he gave me the biggest hug, you know, afterwards because I just kind of made him relieved and say, you know what? You don't need to worry about this right now. And not everything is about being, you know, hyper-masculine or super strong. Or any of that sort of stuff. Like there are things that matter and there are things you get worked up about and there are things like this that it's like, you know what, he's still a good kid.

That's awesome. I love that. So last thing, well number one, I definitely want to push your book a little bit. Can you tell the title of it again?

Yeah, so it's called I'm Sorry, Love Your Husband. It is found wherever good books are sold, Barnes& Noble for example or Amazon, a lot of local bookstores, different places like that. And like I said, it's a collection of apologies to my wife and children. It's very, very funny. People seem to really, really enjoy it. It's been out for about 3 months now and it's selling quite well. And, you know, I think it's got 86 5-star reviews.

Wow, that's awesome.

Congratulations. There's one 1-star review, but we won't talk about her. But everybody else seems to really enjoy it. I'm really proud. I'm really excited. I'm getting a lot of really good messages of people saying, you know what, I read this We read this together as a couple and it really helped us talk. And that as an author is huge.

That is, that is huge. That's killing two birds, marriage and parenting. And so I think the moral of the story is it's good and okay for dads to seek out parenting advice.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, why? Like, you should be talking to each other. You should be talking to dad. You should be communicating to each other. And if you make a mistake, like that's going to happen, you need to be big enough to apologize. And you need to be big enough to learn from it because if you're not learning from your mistakes, you're never going to get any better.

Truth. And we will drop the mic on that one. Thank you so much for coming, Clint. I appreciate having you on the show and all the links to your stuff will be in the show notes.

Oh, well, thank you. And I really appreciate this conversation and it was wonderful to be here.

Thank you, Clint, for that funny and just real conversation about Being a dad, I hope that this encourages some of you women to encourage your husbands. I hope it encourages some of you dads out here who are listening to just stick with it, keep going, find those moments to connect, and enjoy the journey. But get in there, just get in there and start doing it. So next up, health tip. I have two little health tips today, and the first one is don't OD on calcium. So I know there was this big movement: calcium, calcium, calcium. We need calcium to prevent osteoporosis. And we need calcium for strong bones. And now the movement's kind of you know changing as movements do because research has started to show well you know what you get too much of it and what happens too much absorbed calcium can increase the risk of kidney stones and it may even increase the risk of heart disease. So they're pushing all this calcium on women and later finding out that it increases the risk of heart disease. If you're under fifty, shoot for a thousand milligrams per day. While women over 50 should be getting just 1,200, just 200 more milligrams per day, mainly through diet, meaning you might want to kick to the curb those calcium supplements. And that's really just about 3 servings of calcium-rich foods such as milk, salmon, and almonds. Although I don't do dairy, but you can get it out of the other stuff. And the other big thing, here's the real thing that can really increase your bone density, ladies. Exercise— weight-bearing exercise strengthens bones. So we're always trying to give ourselves a pill to fix something that just healthy lifestyle and taking care of our body and moving it actually will take care of a lot of it. And that brings me to my next health tip, which is do more cardio. I've noticed that men tend to err on the side of doing more weightlifting and forget that cardio is a necessary Part of an exercise regime, and women do the opposite. They're like all cardio, and forget that weight-bearing lifting is actually a necessary part of an exercise regime. So women need a mix of cardio and resistance or weight-bearing exercise. Yes, lift those weights at least three to five times a week to help prevent what I just talked about: osteoporosis, heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. Exercise, of course, we know it promotes good self-image, which is awesome for women. But don't forget to use weights, and you can start out using your body. So anyone who hasn't used weights at all, I say start with your body. Do your squats with your body. Do push-ups with, you know, just your arms. But you've got to also graduate to lifting heavier things. Your bones, your joints, your muscles, your everything in your body will benefit from it. So don't forget, you got to do more cardio. So you have been listening to the Dr. Zoe Show. Thanks for tuning in. New shows go up on Tuesdays, every Tuesday morning. Subscribe so you don't miss a show. If you're interested in coaching or therapy, or you just want to get a little more help, go to my website at drzoeshaw.com or any of my social medias at the handle Dr. Zoe Shaw. Join my free newsletter by texting the word join to 38470. And I love hearing from you guys. I look forward to speaking with you wonderful ladies on social media throughout the week. Have a super week!

You've been listening to the Dr. Zoe Show, redefining your superwoman, with your host, Dr. Zoe Shaw. Don't forget to sign up for her monthly newsletters to get encouragement, tips, and skills for keeping your mind in the superwoman game. Connect with her now. at www.drzoeshaw.com. Tell your friends and subscribe to her podcast on iTunes. Join us next time for another edition of the Dr. Zoe Show.