71: Baby Mama Drama - Dealing with the Mother of His Children | Dr. Zoe Shaw

Grab a cup of tea or listen as you go, ladies. This is your hour with Dr. Zoe, your life and relationship coach. With encouragement, on-point insight, inspiring guests, health tips, and advice, Dr. Zoe helps busy women keep their mind in the game by redefining your superwoman. You're listening to the Dr. Zoe Show.

Welcome to the Dr. Zoe Show, Redefining Your Superwoman. I'm your host, Dr. Zoe. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist with a doctorate in clinical psychology. I'm a life and relationship coach and a motivational speaker, and I can work with you virtually to help you get unstuck. My passion is helping women find their superpower, learn to embrace it, and share it with the world. Connect with me by texting the word join to 38470 or go to my website at drzoeshaw.com. The topic today is, is baby mama drama hurting your relationship? And here's how to fix it. So I'm going to start with my fail and my win, and then we'll get into that whole blended family, beautiful chaos. My win is that I had a birthday, which is always fun. They just keep on coming every year. But this birthday, I really enjoyed it with my family. And my win is that before, I never really asked for specific things or what I wanted, but then sometimes I'd get resentful. Like people didn't do things that I wanted them to do. People, of course, meaning my husband and my kids. And I have a friend, you guys probably know her, my BFF Rosie. She's been telling me for years, she's like, you need to tell them what you want for your birthday. You need to tell them that you want them to do this and tell them that you want them to do this. And I'm like, ah, it's just not really me. It's like, you know, I want them to just figure it out. That's what it is. I just want them to figure it out. And of course I know that's ridiculous because that's what I tell people in my practice, especially couples. I always say, if you ask for what you want and then they do it, they're doing it out of love. Because often people feel the same thing I feel is, well, I don't want to ask them to do it because then it doesn't really count. I want them to do it out of love. But you know what? Reality is nobody can read your mind. And so you have to just tell them. So I told my son I wanted him to make me a carrot cake. For my birthday, I planned out the day, kind of, and told everybody what I wanted to do. Everybody was on board. My son made an amazing carrot cake. He is becoming quite the baker. It tasted so good. And usually I make everybody homemade cakes for their birthday and I would get the store-bought because nobody would make it. So there you go. And we just had a great day. It was just a fun day and no resentment on my part. So yeah, you just got to ask for what you want. And then the people who love you will step up. So that's cool. And my fail. Oh my goodness. So I happen to be a little bit forgetful and unfortunately I passed this down, especially to my 15-year-old son. So I can't really blame him. I was in my garage and I took my Apple Watch off because I had to do something I don't remember and I put it on top of my car, which sounded like a great idea at that time because I wasn't going anywhere. I just set it on there and I was doing a bunch of things. And then I was in the house and I forgot that I had to meet. My assistant called me and she'd actually left her cord in my office. And I forgot that she had told me that before and we were supposed to meet. So I was like, okay, I'll run down there real quickly. Luckily, my office is super close to my house. I jumped in the car, ran down there, came home, and guess what I was looking for? My watch. So I found out that I left it on the top of my car. So my husband and I, by the way, it was pouring raining. Oh my gosh. We went out on a crazy search for my watch, which thanks to Find My Apple Watch, which is so amazing, it located exactly where it had fallen off on the street. And then we got there outside in the middle of the rain and pinged it. And my little Apple Watch started dinging and lighting up in the middle of a rainstorm in the dirt, and I found it. So it's a win, but you know, it was a little scratched up. My fail is that I forget things and sometimes I do dumb things like put my watch on top of my car, which wasn't very smart. That's life. That's life. Okay, so on to the topic. Is baby mama drama hurting your relationship? More importantly, what do we do about it? First, I have to say I absolutely hate the term baby mama. I feel it's a derogatory term. It is a term that is just not deserving of your position. So I don't care how, you know, you had your children, or how it got started, but nobody should be called that. But it is a modern term and everybody kind of knows what it means. But really what we're just talking about here is blended families and blended families is also a modern reality. And so we're going to talk about dealing with your partner's ex who is the mother of his children. I wrote an article called Is Baby Mama Drama Hurting Your Relationship? And I have gotten so much response from it and funny, I've gotten a lot A positive response and I've gotten a whole lot of negative as well and what this tells me is that this is just such a painful topic, a difficult topic for so many women. So if you're in a blended family, if you know of anybody that's in a blended family, if you know people who are maybe not even necessarily in blended families but are trying to blend, have exes, have, you know, parents of their children, blah, blah, blah, share this because... This is a painful thing and we've got to work on blending well because like I said, it's a reality of the modern world and stepfamilies do have a super hard time and we already know that statistically second marriages aren't as successful as first marriages and the reason usually is because of the children and the drama involved. So of course, when you met your guy, he was amazingly wonderful and things were probably going really well and you probably even married him and so you know, you might be thinking, what in the world What could mess up this bliss? And the answer, of course, is the mother of his children. And once again, I'm going to do a second episode, just so you know, that focuses on when you are the mother of his children and dealing with that drama. But this episode is just focusing on the woman who's in a relationship with a man who has a partner or, you know, a woman who has his children. So I first want to say that Baby mama drama began with the start of civilization. If you think back to the Bible and you think back of Abraham, sparks were going off between Sarah, who was his wife, and Hagar, who was the mother of his child. And Abraham wasn't even able to deal with that drama. And back then, there weren't any laws about it. And he literally just shipped Hagar off with their child, never to be seen again. And although it's possible that that could be a fantasy of yours, that's not healthy. That's not okay. And it's not going to happen. So what you need to do is figure out how to deal with the mother of your partner's children. So the modern reality is that almost half, so 46% of marriages involve a stepparent situation. And when your relationship started, you probably dreamt that it would be kind of like The Brady Bunch, if you remember that old, old sitcom. But the reality hit and everything isn't as smooth and seamless as a 1-hour episode can make it look. And often, you know, it's not even the kids. The kids are cool. It's their mother, that extra person who's in your relationship. And relationships are super hard when it's just the two of you. And we therapists often talk about how unhealthy a triangle is in any relationship. But sometimes these triangles, when you have 3 people in a relationship, sometimes they just can't be avoided. So when you have to factor in the mother of his children into your own blossoming relationship, then of course baby mama Drama can happen and sometimes you might feel like giving up, but don't. Listen to this and we're going to talk about ways that you can deal with that. So whether you've just committed to this relationship or you've been in it for a super long time and drama is escalating, how can you step into a split parent situation with grace even when the other woman may be spitting venom? And how do you know when the situation is just too sticky and you really actually need to walk away? So we're going to talk about both of those. First thing is that we've probably all heard that 2 women cannot peacefully rule in a house together. Someone has to take a back seat and there has to be sometimes a lot of negotiating to figure out whose role is whose. And I think that's probably a lot of the drama that goes on is everybody— when I say everybody, I mean the 2 women, because the men are kind of sometimes oblivious to all of this. It just goes straight over their head. But the 2 women are jockeying for position, like who's in charge here? Who's the matriarch? Who's the boss? Who's got the power? And when it's over our kids, you know, we can be mama bears as women and we don't always see straight. So the reality is, is that as a woman who is a partner to your husband and there's another woman out there who's the mother to his children, sometimes your role will be the backseat. But also sometimes it's going to be front and center and you need to know when that is because you deserve to be respected as the new woman in his life. But she also needs to be respected as the mother of his children and some people get mad at me for that and what's important that you need to understand is that when we're dealing in relationships like this, they really don't have to earn respect. So this whole idea of, well, you have to be respectful to get respect or you have to treat me with respect. No, you take the high road always and you respect and when you take that high road, things will work out. It's tough. It's hard, especially to respect somebody when you feel like they're not getting respect. And it doesn't mean that you have to be super nice to them. It doesn't mean you need to be their best friend. It doesn't mean that you need to bend over backwards. You just need to approach every situation with a level of respect. And you probably already know that she's not that thrilled that you're the new woman in his life. And the reality is, is that nothing you do will probably be good enough in her eyes because you have influence on her children, and that can cause a lot of jealousy in a woman. So here are a few tips for negotiating this baby mama drama. And as I'm talking about this, I want you to remember that the only person you can change is you. So when I talk about that respecting, it's because despite how evil she might be, you can't change her and neither can your husband. But you can improve your entire life and your relationship by learning how to deal with her in the best way possible. And that means probably changing You. So jealousy, I'd mentioned it earlier, jealousy is a normal emotion. This other woman was a big part of his life and she shares the most important little people in his life as well. She likely loved him and maybe she still does. And if you can step into her shoes for a moment, you can imagine that she had this dream that she and your man were going to be together forever. Now clearly it didn't work out and he wants to be with you and you need to remember that as well, but it's not a far step to understand how she might see you as the person who is keeping her from her dream. Even if she tells herself and other people that she's over him, both of you can still likely have feelings of jealousy. Instead of trying to deny or suppress them, just acknowledge them. Jealousy feelings are sometimes a part of life. Try to respond and not react by asking yourself, is this response a result of my jealousy, or am I really responding appropriately based on what's good for the whole family? Once you own your jealousy, it's not going to control you in crazy ways. A lot of women have trouble owning their jealousy. This next one is a hard one, and I talked about triangling earlier. You and the other woman must have your own relationship. Recognize that your man is pulled in between 2 women, and this is a difficult place for anyone to be. If she's constantly complaining or criticizing, or even worse, if she's attacking you and your position, you only exacerbate the situation by going and telling on her to your partner. You've got to focus on developing your own relationship with this woman. Separate from the relationship with him, even if it isn't the smoothest one. You need to approach her and let her know that you're not trying to take over her position, that you understand full and well she is the mother. She will always be the mother. Tell her you recognize that. And sometimes, honestly, the other woman just needs to feel acknowledged and reassured that you're not trying to take her place. And by the way, you always approach her in a cool, calm manner, even if she's Crazy and over the top. If she knows that she can get under your skin, then she's gained power and she'll do it time and time again. If all else fails, you can let him step in, but if you can't handle it on the regular and you're constantly bringing him into an issue between the two of you, you're asking him to choose you and you're jeopardizing the relationship. And when I say choose you, I'm not saying choose you over her. I'm saying choose you over peace in his family because she is the mother of those children. Now the other thing is mutual respect. So of course, in the best-case scenario, you all 3 would be able to co-parent beautifully with a united front, but that's probably a fantasy and it's not reality. So for sanity's sake, you have to work with what you have. And so if what you have is someone who is disrespectful, you've got to be able to work with it. And I know it's super hard, and I'm not telling you to just be a doormat because that's not what you should be. You need to have healthy boundaries. You need to make sure that you are talking to your spouse about the way that you expect him to respect you and the boundaries between the two of you. And sometimes it's I wanna be the one that communicates with her directly about our issues. It's not okay for you to tell me any negative things she says about me because that only stirs up the pot. Any boundaries that you feel are necessary, you deserve to be respected in this relationship and bring them up. The other thing is that sometimes she might have rules for her kids and your job is going to be to respect those. So you need to respect her rules and sometimes that can be difficult if they go directly against your own. So the good news though, is that kids can actually do just fine when there are 2 sets of rules, as long as both sets are clearly stated and respected. So you might have your own kids, and she might have rules for her kids that don't align with the rules that you have for your kids. And you can actually have 2 separate rules for kids in a home. The problem comes up only when one parent demeans or disrespects the other's rules, and that's when things get confusing. So if you are respectful and say, well, you know what, your mother doesn't allow you to watch this TV show, and you say it respectfully and you understand it. There are different ways you can respect it. You can respect it so that when that child is over, you guys don't watch that show. Or you make sure your kids are in another room and you're doing something, maybe spending one-on-one time with that kid. But it is important to respect the other mother's rules. And it's okay to let that child know, you know, those aren't the rules in our home, but those are your mom's rules. And that's okay. The other thing is it's important to know your role. His children don't need another mother, and it can be easy to kind of slip into that role, especially if you don't have children of your own, but don't. You should be a friend, not a best friend either, but you should be a friend to his children. You deserve a place of respect as the woman that their father has chosen in his life. But you don't want to become too BFFs because that can cause just as many problems as having a bad relationship with his children. So what you want to strive for is a good, solid relationship. The way you do that is that you try to connect with his kids around their areas of interest. A lot of people will make the mistake of thinking, what would I like to do for fun? And trying to bring the kid in on that. You need to learn that kid. You need to find out what they love and what they're interested in and do those things because that's how kids feel loved and cared for and connected. And if they disclose secrets to you, you need to make it clear to them that you will not be a secret holder. Now, you're not going to run and go tell the parents either because that's not okay. That's betraying trust. So what you let them know is that you won't be a secret holder and encourage them to tell both of their parents about whatever the issue is. And you can talk to them about it and help them and, you know, help to alleviate any fears they might have. In all of this, I want you to remember that your feelings are valid. So when you've done everything you can do and you've approached the situation in a mature manner and your boundaries are constantly being overlooked, this is the time when you want to bring the issue to your partner. Remember, you deserve to be respected in the relationship, but you cannot ever expect her to respect you. That's the Biggest mistake that we get into is that we have expectations for people that they can't possibly meet, and then we feel disappointed. No, don't even expect it. If it happens, that's icing on the cake. It's whipped cream on your sundae. But don't expect her to respect you. You treat her with respect. What you can expect is that he respects you, that he respects you in front of his children, that he respects you in front of her. That is something that you can demand in the relationship because you deserve it. If you find that your needs or your desires are constantly being put on the back burner to appease her, then he still has some issues with her, and your man may not be ready to put you first and respect this relationship. Sometimes We get enmeshed in relationships. Sometimes we get codependent. Sometimes there's a lot of issues going on, but your expectation should be that he respects you. And I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but once again, when we're able to look at situations honestly, we're able to have more health. If he's not respecting you in front of her when you're not there, in front of her when you are there, then it might not be the right relationship. For you. So you respect her and her place in his life because she's not going anywhere, but don't allow yourself to play second fiddle. And so baby mama drama has, has, you know, lasted for all time. It will still be here and exist in some form as it always has for the rest of time, but it doesn't have to ruin your relationship. If you take the high road, you respect her, and demand respect from him in return, then you're well on your way to making it work. I'm gonna be putting out some more stuff for the woman who has to deal with, you know, her ex now having new relationships and dealing with that as well. Please feel free to ask me questions and I'd be more than happy to answer them on future episodes. So I do have a question from a listener and this is tough and this is the reality of the drama that I'm talking about. So she said, I've been with my partner for over a year, living together since July, and his ex will only allow him access to his daughter on her terms at her house, her father's house, or meet halfway and do family activities, which I've since explained to him makes me feel excluded, isolated, and depressed. I just recently tried to make contact with her and It's now exploded as she's delusional and accusing me of being the reason why their family are no longer together. We met when she had another man living in her house. She also has another child to another man who we're fairly certain she did this to when she was seeing my partner. The accusation of me being the mistress is completely false, and now she's turned the whole situation around to being my fault. Her daughter will never meet me, and I'm a bad person. When I've done nothing wrong except meet my partner and fall in love with him. I love him and I can see us having a wonderful time together, a future together, but I don't know if I can deal with this kind of emotional strain. I'd appreciate any advice and support right now. Yes, this is so tough and this is kind of what I was talking about that you should never expect her to respect you. That's not going to happen and that's okay. But you should expect him to respect you. And so he is no longer in a nuclear family with this woman, and it is perfectly fine for you to tell him you're not okay with them doing family activities, that you're not okay with him being at her home. If he wants to move into this new relationship and form a family with you, that the children need to be a part of your family. Now that's for him. That's something for him to address and figure out. And you need to decide, do you want to be a part of it? Because he is still very much maybe scared, maybe feels like she's not going to allow him to see his kids if he doesn't do what she says. But that's allowing her to totally take over your family, and that's not okay. Legally, he does not have to be at her home. Legally, he does not have to be with her or present with her when he's spending time with the children. Now, maybe that's something he wants. And if that's something he wants to do, that's perfectly fine for him and for them. But then you need to decide if that's something that you want in your life. So this really is a conversation that you need to have with him. Find out what his intentions are for you. Find out if he is wanting to make a family with you. And if he is, then you need to talk about how you're going to incorporate his children into your life. And I think it's excellent that you reached out to her. I think it's fine to continue to do so, especially when it's just kind of rote things, maybe not even talk about the relationship right now because she's probably not quite there, but do not do what he's doing and shy away from her. You stand your ground. You don't ever argue with her or get her to see your point. You simply communicate with her about necessary things and whatever is not necessary, you don't, but always respect. But you definitely demand respect from him, and that is that he's not in relationship with this woman anymore except as a partner. And if you're not okay with them being together as a family and you being excluded from that, then you need to have your boundaries and make sure that he knows. I know it's tough, but addressing these issues early will keep you from being resentful and angry and hurt and ultimately ending the relationship anyway. Best of luck. Thanks for tuning in to The Dr. Zoe Show. New shows go up on Tuesdays. Subscribe so you don't miss a show. And if you're interested in coaching or therapy or you just want to get a little more help, go to my website at drzoeshaw.com or any of my social medias at the handle @DrZoeShaw. Join my free newsletter by texting the word JOIN to 38470 and I look forward to speaking with you wonderful ladies on social media throughout the week. Have a super week.

You've been listening to The Dr. Zoe Show. Redefining Your Superwoman with your host, Dr. Zoe Shaw. Don't forget to sign up for her monthly newsletters to get encouragement, tips, and skills for keeping your mind in the Superwoman game. Connect with her now at www.drzoeshaw.com. Tell your friends and subscribe to her podcast on iTunes. Join us next time for another edition of the Dr. Zoe Show.