How Shame Shows Up in Your Parenting—Even When Your Kids Are Grown

Hello, welcome to Stronger in the Difficult Places. I'm your host, Dr. Zoe, and today's topic is about shame and family dynamics, how our shame as parents can affect our parenting, whether our parents are adults or children. And I have a wonderful guest, Anastasia. She is a family coach, former educator, licensed mental health expert. She's dedicated to helping moms create a balanced, joyful home life. She has a background in counseling, play therapy, and education, and she empowers parents to build strong family systems, set healthy boundaries, And develop a mindset that fosters growth. Her work transforms families by equipping moms with the tools to lead with love, clarity, and resilience. Listen in to our conversation about shame and family dynamics. Welcome, Anastasia, to the podcast. I think in the intro I said Anastasia, which is, you know, but, um, I love your name. It's beautiful, and I'm so glad that you joined us today.

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be here.

Yeah. So I wanna talk a little bit. Well, we're gonna talk about shame and family dynamics, which is something I don't think I've really talked much on the, on the podcast about. And what I do know is, you know, my youngest child is 12, my oldest is in her 30s, and I have a range of listeners who have younger kids or older kids and grandchildren. But what I do know is that shame shows up in all the family dynamics. So can you share just a little bit about the work that you do, um, with families?

Yeah, of course. So I work with children and moms, dads, parenting in all ways. Um, I really try to help families create healthy systems in their home, right? So we've all been raised one way, and sometimes we're raised in a system or in a family that didn't parent how we want to parent,

right?

And so I really try to help parents see that that's okay and that there can be a different way. It can be better. It can be However you want. Um, but you have to be present and just really aware daily of how you're interacting with your kids. And so I really try to help, um, families put in these systems in place so they are able to do that.

Interesting. And so that's systems because what I do know as a therapist is that often what we do is we just repeat patterns, right? Without intention, we repeat the patterns of, of what we've always experienced in our childhood, in our relationships. know, moving forward.

Yeah, because you're used to, like you're saying, like you're, you're gonna do something the way your mom did it or the way your dad did it. And so to change it, it's hard sometimes. And so I really try to help families see that it can be hard, but it also can be done. And that it's not— you're not wrong for doing it that way to start with, whichever was the way you don't like. It's just because it was taught that way to you, you're— you tend to read— you do that the same as your parent does.

Mm-hmm.

I really want them to break, break those patterns so they are not, um, stuck.

Right, right. And you know, there's so many ways and places. Our parenting journey is long. You know, when you, when you have a child, you have this concept and idea, okay, this is a forever thing, but you just don't realize how— it's not how forever it is, but just how parenting changes. Over the years, over the decades. And the way that we have to show up has to change. Our parenting journey is never, it's never over. It just morphs. It just morphs. And many of us are doing what I'm doing because, you know, I'm parenting, I say parenting adults, but I'm a parent of adults. And then I'm also parenting a preteen at this time. And so I have to show up differently for, um, you know, all of my different, my 5 children. So can we talk a little bit about how shame shows up in our parenting? What are you seeing in your work?

Yeah, for sure. So I think a lot of times when we think about shame, it's that I'm doing something wrong or I am bad. And that parents sometimes will, will say to me, well, I did this. I had a parent actually yesterday, um, say I did this wrong. I dropped— I didn't— we were on the way to school and she started crying and And I didn't drop her off. I took her back home again. And so she felt a lot of shame in that. And so it was this conversation of like, no, you didn't do anything wrong. You didn't do anything bad. It's just what you felt in the moment. And then we just— I coached her through that, that it's okay. Tomorrow is a new day and we can try again. And so really every day, I really try to help parents see that every day is a new day and that We all make mistakes. We all do things we wish could be different. And holding onto that shame will just make it harder for you on the next day or in the next moment with your child. And so I find that sometimes it's hard to let go of that shame because you feel like you did something wrong. And a lot of parents do that.

Right. And a lot of those shame messages, they come from our childhood. You know, our shame messages get passed down sometimes generation to generation. And, you know, sometimes, you know, just from your, your family of origin. And then they pop up when there's a trigger or when there's something that, that is very similar to, to that experience. Um, and sometimes we don't notice that we're operating, uh, based on our shame messages.

Yeah, and I think it's really important to be aware of it, right? And so that's where that present, being present in your parenting and being thoughtful about your day-to-day interactions with your kids is important.

How do we do that? How do we stay present and how do we pay attention to those kinds of things?

I know. Right.

So hard

work. It takes work.

Yeah.

Yeah. It really does take work. And it takes, um, really being centered in your own nervous system, in your own journey as just a parent. Right. And so if you're overwhelmed and if you're really struggling with something, it's hard to be present with your kids. Right. So it's really being able to be centered in who you are. I mean, every day isn't gonna be perfect.

Right.

But really having that Maybe that time in the morning where you center yourself and you get present just for yourself, know how you're feeling that day before you're going to interact with your kids and your family. And then just being there, putting the phone down, right? Being— just making the eye contact, being very present with your kids in a way where you're looking at them, you're not distracted with other things.

Yeah, that can be a challenge in our busy lives. And so we do have to be super intentional about that. I read a study once. I don't know how— I haven't read any more pertaining to that, but 15 minutes of focus, kind of eye-to-eye attention on your child, each child essentially, is enough to really solidify a healthy relationship between parent and child. 15 minutes sounds like nothing, but then when I started to think about it, you know, a lot of our interactions are so distracted interactions, right? We're doing things with our kids. We're, you know, driving. Yeah. Driving them or cooking dinner or doing homework, doing all these things, but we're distracted. And so when I think about 15 minutes of undistracted time, all of a sudden it doesn't feel like, oh, that's nothing. I realize, hmm, many of us aren't even getting that every day.

Yeah, and I agree, the kids need it. They need us. And I, I would like definitely pay attention to that. See how much you're making eye contact with your children. See how much you're just sitting with them. I was with a therapist recently with my son. And he, one of the things he's saying that he's proposing to parents is just going and sitting with your kid, just going into their room and just sitting with them or go sit beside them and just do not, just sit there for a few moments with them without your phone.

Mm-hmm.

And just see what happens. See if a conversation comes up, see if they, um, interact with you. But yeah, I think our kids are so used to us being busy. Yeah. They're so used to us multitasking and everything. It's uncomfortable probably for them too whenever we're just like very presently focused with them.

Mm-hmm.

So 15 minutes might be too much at first. So it depends on each family.

Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about what are shame behaviors in our family, like in our family interaction, whether it's with our younger kids or even with our, our adult kids? What does that look like?

So I think we can, um, think of shame. So if we're feeling shame, right? Mm-hmm. We're feeling I am bad.

Mm-hmm.

And so I think it's really important for us to not. Raise our kids in that way, right? So instead of being like, you are so bad, or, um, you're so messy, really thinking of it as a family system thing again is like, let's— like, if it's you're so messy, like, you're— that's a shameful statement. So changing how you're stating things to children, like, let's clean this up together.

Mm-hmm.

So really trying to get away from that directing to your children. A statement that makes them feel a way that would be just not, not good inside, that would be harmful, right? So you never listen to me,

right?

Really sitting down, looking at them in the eye. I really need you to hear me right now. So thinking about the statements, that's one thing I do work with parents a lot is how you're speaking, what words you're saying to them. And focusing on that and using that as a way to maybe change how you're parenting a little bit. And so I really help parents tweak because you don't realize— some parent might not realize, like, you're messy, you're so messy, your room is a disaster. They don't realize, like, what that could be doing. Or you're so dramatic, why are you crying all the time?

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so really helping them tweak how they could say that in a way which wouldn't be a shameful statement. So I do think that's one way that we Do shame our kids in a way that they— we don't mean to, right? That's not intentional.

That, you know, you are is a very— it's a global statement about who they are as a person, but it also attaches to their identity, right? Sometimes people may think, oh, it's just semantics, right? So if I say, oh, your room is messy versus you are messy, it sounds like that's not a huge difference. But when you are telling a child, or even, I mean, anybody, even your adult children, you know, you know, as you're starting to recognize patterns in their work habits or things like that, um, when you are telling them that you are, there's nothing for anybody to do about who they are as a person, right? And so when someone is told you are something, if it's bad, if it's wrong, and they begin to attach that to their identity, then their response is to hide. Because they can't not be that. You've already told them that's who they are, right? And so instead what they do is they go inside and their response is to hide. Whereas if you address something like, hey, I'd really like for you to listen to me more. Hey, let's get this room cleaned up. All of a sudden that's not you are, that's this room. There's an issue with this room and we need to, to work on this room.

Yeah, I think that's really good. I love how you say that. And I think too, if we make the mistake of saying, You are is doing that repair of like, oh, you know, and I think kids are so great because they are so in the moment and they're so presently focused that when you repair with them and you come back pretty quick and just apologize, like, I shouldn't have said it like that. I'm really sorry. Let's try this again. They really respect that. And that really helps the connection between the parent-child relationship.

That's beautiful. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah. Going to them and saying, you know, I said that you are messy and You are not. You are, and then you can tell them all these wonderful things that they are, right? You are, you are so smart and you are so thoughtful and you are, those are, that's who you are. But this room is messy. Yeah. And I'm sorry that I said that you are, because I wanna make sure you know that that's not who you are as a person. And yeah, that's a beautiful repair that a child can hear. And not only that, but it also begins to help them pay attention to the power of words, to the words that they speak to other people when you're going back to them with intention.

Yeah, because they model, they hear us, they see us, and they model what we do. And so it's really important to, um, be able to hear what we're saying, and then they'll be able to respond in a way that is healthy, hopefully.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, when I think about shame too, with just our listeners, sometimes, sometimes parenting podcasts and things that, you know, can make us feel bad as parents, like, oh, I did that last week, and oh, I'm a terrible parent. And so I just wanna make sure that anybody who's listening to this knows that, you know, number one, we're all on a journey. And number two, our parents, our kids don't need perfect parents, but they do need parents who are doing the work. And that's the best, you know, the, the best modeling that you can do for your child.

Yeah, it is. And I, and that goes back to like the work part on ourselves, I think is so important because we, and even how we Have our inner dialogue and the things we say inside to ourselves. That was something I worked on a lot for myself. It's just my inner, my shame, right? And my inner self-talk of really trying to get away from all those shameful statements I'm saying to myself. Because I think that that does impact how I'm responding to my child.

100%.

Yeah. I think that's really important too, of thinking about what are you saying to yourself about how you're doing something. Um, and I, it's funny cuz my son, I have an 11-year-old, he's about to be 12. Um, I was doing something and I was like, oh, I'm so stupid. Mm-hmm. And he's like, he heard me and he said, why are you saying you're stupid? Because I'm always saying to him, don't talk like that about yourself. And so he caught me.

Yeah.

And so I have to be really careful too, right, of how I'm shaming myself.

Mm-hmm.

As a woman and as a parent.

You know, that is so powerful because it is almost impossible For the things that we say to ourselves about ourselves to stay there. Inevitably, they're gonna come out of our mouth, right? And our children will hear them. And so if it's only for that reason, we should definitely be working on our own internal self-talk. But what we know too is that healthier, the healthier you are, the better, you know, parenting your kids are gonna get. And so the better you treat yourself, the better parenting your kids are gonna get. So yeah. Wow. That's so important is to pay attention to how am I, how am I dealing with my own shame? How am I, how am I shaming myself sometimes? And how do I start to restructure that talk so that it begins to spill out into my parenting in a healthy way?

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think sometimes the way we discipline kids, um, can affect it really. Shame can affect how we discipline and connect with our kids. And so I think that the way you're disciplining, and again, how you're speaking and how you're stating things can be either shame-based or a teaching-based discipline. And I think that's important to think about too. That's right. So I always talk about fear-based parenting instead of the fear-based parenting, really getting to the root of like helping your kids understand their emotions, really helping them see the connection with you, right? So like, instead of saying like, why would you do that? You should know better. Publicly correcting them or embarrassing them, those are all shameful type ways. And not that you're doing that on purpose, right? That could be just something that you're doing impulsively. But they do impact our kids and they do— that is that shame again. And just recognizing that, I think, is really, really important. To try to reframe it and do it in a way where there is a connection and there is that teaching rather than the shame.

Yeah. And, you know, so many people were kind of disciplined with shame. Shame, unfortunately, has been used as a tool in society and religion to mold and shape behavior. What we've found is that it actually doesn't work so well, that what happens is, like I said, shame makes us hide. But it doesn't necessarily make us change behavior. It just makes us do it more secretively, if that makes sense. And so what are better options for either correcting or disciplining or having those kinds of conversations?

Yeah, I think there's a lot of just like reflecting. So for example, your child, say, why would you do that? You know better.

Your child does something absolutely crazy that you've taught them a million times not to do.

Yeah, like you're telling them like, why would you run across? Right. Um, really coming back and maybe you're startled at first. I mean, like, say the child ran across the road, come back here. Why would— then coming back and being like, you really wanted to get across that road. Reflecting kind of maybe their actions or the words they're saying to you to help them see that you hear them and you see them.

Mm-hmm.

And give them the way to be able to see that you're connect— you're not just telling them, but you're connecting with them in a way that, um, Is respectful. Because whenever you do that, yelling at them or stating things to them, it's not in a respectful tone, or it's not respectful to them. So seeing them as a human, not just as a child, I think is really important. And so here again, it goes to just that presentness of before you speak, think of it as like, how am I speaking to them? How am I going to discipline them in a way that is respectful, that is kind? Mm-hmm. that is not going to be embarrassing to them. Um, and using words that are of love, right? And of caring and kindness whenever. And I think that can be done with discipline, right? I think that can be done. Um, even if you're mad and you're angry, you can still discipline in a way that's caring and kind.

Right, right. And, you know, tone, right? Because even if you— because what I do know is becoming curious Is good because when kids feel like, oh, they— my parents, my mom, my dad really wanna know about me, that makes sense. But there's a big difference between saying, why would you do that? Which is accusatory and, um, and shaming versus, huh, what was going— like, what were you thinking? What was going on with you that made you decide to do that? Like you said, you really wanted to get across that road, huh? What was going on with you? That's very different. It's still asking why, like trying to understand, but it's asking from a very different place of actually

Yeah, I love that. Curiosity is great. That's such a great word. And I, yes, I think we need to be curious with our kids. That's a wonderful example of, um, how that takes you right out of the shame.

Yeah.

Because you're curious about who they are as a person and how they're feeling and why they're doing something or what's happening in the moment, not just jumping to conclusions or trying to be that like parent that is in that, uh, Authoritative or authoritative role of telling them what to do.

Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. And that is, you know, what we aspire to. And we don't always hit the mark. And so that's also, I just want to, you know, give, just give our listeners permission to be human and to come back and do that reparative work. We, Just like our children can't always be perfect, even when we tell them a million times over and they go and do the opposite. Well, you know, we as humans are just gonna make mistakes and that's okay.

Yeah. And I think the shame stuff, it's such a journey, right? Mm-hmm. Because if it's embedded in us, it's a journey that you're working on every single day.

Yes. Yes.

That it's okay. It's okay. And it's just like, let's start again tomorrow. Let's start again in an hour.

Yeah.

Um, it's just, it's okay. And that we all make mistakes and we're all doing the best that we can with parenting.

Yeah. And our parenting is a lifelong, a lifelong process. I'm still talking to my adult children about parenting, you know, even parenting mistakes that I made when they were younger. There's, there's time as long as you're, you know, in relationship with your children to do repair.

There is. And if they respect you, they'll, they will respect you and they will Those conversations with you as they get older because they know that you're not perfect and you know you're not perfect. And so they will see that within you and it'll build on that relationship, which I'm sure you see with your kids.

Yeah. And you know what's so interesting? What I love about having adult kids is that I can have those conversations. And what's, what's really interesting is the things that I think, you know, choices that I made that I might perceive now that that might've been damaging, they perceive completely different. And then things that I might've thought were fantastic, they perceived differently. Yeah. And so being able to have those conversations, you know, I talk to them about my regrets and they're like, oh no, mom, you know, that was great. Or that was, you know, that didn't, didn't bother me or hurt me. But then there might be something else that I was completely unaware of that really affected them. And so being able to have those honest conversations with your adult children is really The best, the best blessing, I think, for both of us, because we can talk about our experience both as parent and child. And I still have another one coming up, so he can help me with, you know, future parenting.

Yeah, that's amazing. I love that you can process through it with them and how healthy for them to be able to like have those conversations with you and just like, just talk it out if it's something that was uncomfortable or something that had happened. So I think that's awesome.

Yeah. And that also just reminds me about how our shame colors things because, you know, I, I, I work a lot. I work lots of hours. And I remember talking to my adult son, um, about feeling like I wasn't present enough. I think during his high school years or something. And he was complete— he's like, no, Mom, like, I knew I could come to you, you know, for anything. Like, he'd show up at my office back when I, you know, had an office before COVID Um, And he didn't have that sense. You know, I was carrying all this mom guilt about not being present, and that wasn't the experience that he had at all in, in that. And so that was, that was reparative for me. And then also realizing how my own shame and guilt colors the perception that I even have of my exp— my experience and his experience. So, yeah.

That's great. Yeah. That's such great, like, internal work for you. Yeah. I love that.

Yeah.

They really were.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Um, is there any last word of advice you'd like to give for, for a woman who may be realizing, oh my gosh, I really struggle with, with guilt and shame in my parenting?

Yeah, just, it's okay. It's okay. And just doing the work and just taking it day by day and just refocusing on your nervous system, on being present in who you are, and that every day will change, will be a new day, and that it's okay. It's all okay.

I like that. How can people get a hold of you and how can people work with you?

Yeah, for sure. I'm on Instagram, Anastasia Arooz, and then my website is AnastasiaArooz.com.

Wonderful. Thank you so much, Anastasia, for coming on and sharing your wisdom.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me.