How to Live with Unresolved Conflict with Shivonne Davis

This is not a podcast about being broken, although you may have been. This is a podcast about strength for women who find themselves in difficult relationships, including that sometimes difficult one with yourself. We'll look at your relationship through a lens of psychology, faith, and a little dash of my own kind of feminism. We're not fixing them. We're fixing you. And that changes everything. Welcome to Stronger in the Difficult Places. Save yourself, heal your relationships. Listen in. Welcome. I'm your host, Dr. Zoe. I'm a little sick today, so that's why my voice sounds a little different, but I'm glad you're listening. And today I have a guest. Her name is Siobhan Davis. Now you guys have heard me talk nonstop about finding strength in difficult relationships, including that one with yourself. I give tips, advice, and encouragement, but sometimes despite trying all the things, you may still have a relationship in your life that has unresolved conflict. And although there's plenty of headway that you can make in a relationship when you focus on yourself and you just focus on changing yourself, there's some people with whom you cannot find common ground. So today I'm excited to bring a guest, Siobhan Davis, to talk about managing unresolved conflict, and maybe even finding opportunity in it. There were some microphone issues with her audio, and so I hope you can forgive that because it was a really valuable conversation. Listen in. Thank you, Siobhan, for coming on the podcast today. I am so excited to have you here.

Thank you for inviting me. I'm glad to be able to be here to speak about all of the things.

Yes, we're going to talk about all of the things. Before we get started, I just want to let my audience know who you are. So Siobhan She's a marital strategist for millennial couples. She's the host of the Married Millennials Podcast. I love that title. She's a soldier for marriage and helps millennial marriages work to restore, redeem, and heal their marriages to lead a life of love, joy, and abundance under God's covenant. I love your passion. I love what you're doing. And, um, that's why I wanted to have you on the podcast today.

Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Um, definitely being a beneficiary of the book that you wrote helped me get into alignment with some Self-care. So to be able to share your platform with you, I'm honored to be able to do that.

Excellent. Thank you. Thank you.

Right, Dr. Zoe, you got me drinking my water every day.

Good, good. Mine is right here. So as with all of my guests, I would like you to first, before we get into this topic— and we're going to be talking today about unresolved conflict in your relationships and dealing with it, and really specifically What you need to do with yourself to deal and work in relationships when there's unresolved conflict. And that's a real deal. But before we get started, can you please tell my audience a win and a fail?

Absolutely. Can I be real? Can I be real?

Please, please be real. That's all, that's all we're interested in is real.

I'm going to share a fail, and it's, it's a recurring fail because I'm still learning like how to really get out of this. So one of like my biggest hangups even now is like trying to perfect my healing journey is one of the biggest obstacles that I face like consistently, right?

Right.

So even if I'm, if I'm doing the work and I'm working well, and then I just have like a blowup one day, or I forget to practice self-care, or I forget to do the things like that's really required to be a whole person, I'm super hard on myself and it takes away all of the 357 days that I was doing it right. And I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I had this blowup. But I'm starting to understand how that's actually keeping me back more than it is just like being able to experience it. So that's something that I speak about often. As I said, it still plagues me. Mm-hmm. And just being okay with like being a whole person. I can heal and still mess up. I can heal and still have my days when I don't want to talk to nobody. I don't want to look at nobody. I don't want a thing to do with you or myself. And be okay with that. So that, I would have to say, is one of the things that still try me to this day. And then a win for the win, learning how to say no.

I love that word. Good.

Without explanation, without trying to come up with a reason why so that it can suit the other person. I didn't realize how much I was denying myself the right to really say, I don't want to do that. No, there's nothing on my calendar, but I just don't want to do anything. Without feeling that guilt and shame, like, especially when it came to authority figures in my life, like my mother, my mother-in-law. Um, so being able to say no when I don't want to say yes, it's a win for me.

That's a huge win for all women. And, you know, sometimes when I was thinking about my word of the year, I was thinking about the word no, and I was thinking, I think everyone's sub-word of the year should be no. Because we need to learn to say it more so that we can honor ourselves and have more yeses for ourselves. So good job. Good job. You are working on that and learning that. And no is a complete sentence. But you know, I just wanted to speak for a minute to what you just said about your own healing journey. And for women who are out there, you said it so beautifully that you can still do and be all these things and still be on your own journey. You can also help and heal and walk with other people on their journey and still be on yours, right?

Come on, say that.

And then you said something about how days that you fail, whether it's with self-talk or going back to old behavior, that you've lost those 365 days. And I just want to encourage you that you haven't, because yeah, we're gonna fail, but it doesn't mean that we have now negated all of the work that we've done up to this point. Failing is just a learning And you're going to— you're learning it through the process and all of those— that foundational time, right, that you had, that matters. And you're moving forward with that. So thank you. Thank you for sharing your wins and fails. I know women love to hear them because they resonate with them and they can recognize that you're a real person just like everybody else.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm still trying to get my life in order.

Yes, we all are. We all are. And I don't believe that any of us should stop doing that until the day that we die.

Right.

So let's go on to the topic, women and unresolved conflict. So I'm so excited to talk about this. Many of the women that I work with in my practice are dealing with this, and usually it's family, because when we have really severe unresolved conflict with friends, we can generally go ahead and let those friendships go. Not always if we've got some codependent issues, but usually it's your partner. Right. It's, you know, mother-in-law, family, you know, family of origin. Gen nuclear families. So let's talk about this first. What is the difference between like continually unresolved conflict and then just general conflict?

Oh, how long we got? About an hour. So typically, I like to describe it as like the unresolvable conflict are just like the things, no matter how hard you really work on them. They're just like really not going anywhere for like the long term, right?

Mm-hmm.

So that can be things like punctuality, finances, being a spender or being a saver, whoever you are. Like the things that just really make up who you are as a person that just don't mesh well with other people in the relationship, right? Because when you think about it, like your unresolvable conflicts, you was just like, OK, this is who I am. But I think it becomes like more of an issue when we begin to interact with somebody else that we are now co-creating with. And that's when it becomes unresolvable. But those unresolvable things can be managed. There's no solution, but you can manage how you're walking in them. And then what solvable conflict is, those things that come up where you can actually sit down, come to the drawing board with yourself, with your partner, whoever you're in relationship with, and say, okay, how are we going to handle this? This is what I need it to look like. This is what you need it to look like. And then I encourage people, if this is not just something about you, but it's in relationships with somebody else, you want to get clear on what that working definition of solution looks like for both of you. And when it's a win-win, not when somebody has to lose for the other person to win, that's when you know that that was conflict that was able to be resolved.

Okay, so that's resolvable conflict, right? That's when you two are working together, you're figuring it out, you're, you're maybe coming to some compromises, you're finding your win-wins. Those are resolvable. Exactly. Okay.

Right.

So let's talk about the ones that are often steeped really deep in pain. Um, people have, you know, hurt us. We've asked over and over and, um, they're not willing to give us what we need, or we are just gridlocked. We cannot agree that, you know, maybe it's I want to have a child and you don't, and now we are married and I don't know what to do. You know, I mean, there's some deep—

You're getting into the juicy ones.

I am. I'm getting into the juicy ones because those are unresolvable.

Those are.

So how do we as people live with that? Yeah.

That's what I was about to say. I think when it comes to unresolvable conflict, especially as it pertains to marriage, the 2 parties involved need to come to a solution that actually benefits the marriage. Even if sometimes it's just like, not right now.

Yeah.

But trying to, I say, get an understanding, like, which for me, when I'm teaching couples to like stand under what your partner's perception is, their experience of it, and really try to come to the drawing board. If you don't want to have children, let's get to the bottom of it. Because usually with unresolvable conflict, there's a story attached to underneath. So like, if a woman is saying, I don't want to have a child, maybe she thinks she has to give up her career. Maybe she thinks that her body won't go back to how it was. Maybe she's afraid to be in labor. Oh my God, I can carry this baby, but I actually have to push this baby out at some point. Or even for a husband, well, our life is going to change. We're not going to have as much sex as we used to if a baby comes in. You really want to get down to what the story is behind it. And I think when couples understand their partner's story, it helps us to be able to empathize differently. So now if it's like, oh my God, you really don't want to have this baby because you have a fear of being the mother to our child that our mother was to you, that's something to unpack. Because that's a very real, realistic narrative for somebody who's carrying that. I don't know if I can do it. I have doubts. I have fears. That's what unresolvable conflict is tied to. So when you get to a space of understanding why, I just personally have seen in this line of work, it changes now my response to you in dealing with that approach, if that makes sense.

It does make sense. As I'm thinking about the woman who's in this situation, and, you know, from my viewpoint, I'm always about changing and working on changing and fixing and growing yourself rather than expecting and, and changing him. I want to talk a little bit about what that woman can do individually, because we can say, yeah, your husband should be able to come to the table. You guys should be able to have these conversations and uncover your stories. But sometimes that's not the reality. Sometimes he's just like, yeah, no, not— I'm not. Um, and so I love what you said about the stories, because whenever we're in a place of— I don't know if it's decision-making or angst, um, or sometimes when we're gridlocked in—

Yeah.

A, a viewpoint, it's always helpful to be able to say, okay, what is his story? Let me understand his story so that I can know and understand where he's coming from, and then let me look at my story. Right?

Right.

And so sometimes looking at your story, maybe it is some fear or trauma or something going on from your, your childhood that's causing you to become gridlocked on your side. I think it's really important to look at that, but sometimes it's not going to change the outcome. So, you know, I think it's important to look at that and so that you can know where you are. And then you've got to come to a place of acceptance and figuring out how to walk that relationship through with that unresolved conflict there.

Absolutely. I love that you said that because that's exactly where I was going to go. And I think acceptance— when you walk in true acceptance, you understand that no matter the outcome, it does not diminish your self-worth.

Hmm.

Your decision, just because somebody's not in agreement with it, or because it didn't go the way you thought it should have gone, or because you didn't get the outcome that you expected to get, it does not diminish who you are as a woman. It doesn't take away from your character. Maybe it's not the season, maybe it will be down the road, or even if it's not, whatever it is, if you don't get the outcome, I think one of the things that we struggle with as women is just thinking that it's our fault.

Mm-hmm.

So if something does not go the way I wanted it to, whether it's with my husband or myself— I didn't get a job— we usually say it's because of me,

right?

In a bad way, not in a space of it's because of me, let me reflect on how I could have handled it better. But we usually look, it's because of me, I'm broken, I'm no good, I'm unworthy. So I think with acceptance, you have to get so clear on who you are. That, you know, come hell, high water, sleet, snow, that you stand firm in your identity as a woman. You don't— things are not taken away from you. You get to add to a space that you walk into.

Mm-hmm.

And I think when we understand that, the acceptance piece becomes a little bit easier. You know, we'll still struggle with it, how I still struggle with my fail.

Mm-hmm.

But it doesn't make it as such like a hard blow to the— to the— to your core. Because you're not personalizing the experience. You know that it's an experience.

Right, right. That makes a lot of sense. So let's talk a little bit about acceptance and how we do that, how we accept things that aren't the way that we wish they would be in our lives.

Right, right. So I think when it comes to that, you want to get clear. This, this, this, this, this is something that I try to teach. Get clear on what you create from a space of abundance, not what deficit looks like if you don't get something.

Mm-hmm.

And when I say that, I mean it in a space of understanding. Maybe this just wasn't my door, but it does not take away— I still get to add on to any circumstance, any relationship I enter, any boundary I set up. I still get to be me. And I think that that is one of the greatest struggles. That is one of the biggest identity flaws that I find when I work with wives, is that they have wrapped themselves up in everything else and everybody else, that when it does not go well, it's seen as a character flaw, not a circumstance.

Right.

So if I had to tie it up, acceptance come with accepting the circumstance for what it is. without it diminishing the character of who the circumstance happened to. That makes sense?

Yes, yes, that makes a lot of sense of, you know, coming to a place where you can feel, I guess, a sense of a fullness in self separate from the relationship. And, you know, I think part of what you're coming to is the idea that Um, there is something to get out of the loss that you're experiencing.

Yes.

Because we can have a good sense of self, right, but still have grief over loss of something that we want deeply.

And we should.

We should, yeah. And part of what we want deeply is to be in harmony in our relationships, right? Part of the other thing that we want deeply is to get some of the things that we want or imagine we would get in these relationships.

Right.

And so I think a big part of it, dealing with unresolved conflict, is probably learning how to— you know, acceptance is the last stage of grief,

right?

And whenever there's something that's going on that we are losing in our life, or that we have lost in our life, we have to go through that grief process. And if we look at those stages, you know, anger, denial, bargaining, depression, acceptance, and we cycle through them. Yeah. Um, but I think that we have to go through that. We can't jump from unresolved conflict to acceptance. We have to walk

it

through.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. That is absolutely right. It's like, uh, a woman— since we're speaking to women, right? It's like a woman who just found out she's pregnant. She's not gonna find out today and give birth tomorrow. But I think that we fear the process because of, like, what you said, that grief. You literally grieve the old thing or the old person that you were. This is something I had to learn, like, with my therapist. Like, oh my God, what is this that I'm going through? Why do I feel so emotionally drained and, and whatnot? And I came to understanding, like, we grieve the loss of who we thought we were gonna be. We grieve the loss of what we thought our marriage was going to be. And things like that. And it's okay. I encourage grief, but don't stay there. Move through the stages of it so whatever the thing is that needs to be born can be born in fullness.

Mm-hmm. So let's talk about those opportunities, because I know that you talk about opportunities in conflict. So there's, you know, there's— the reality is, for a woman who's out there who is in the space of, I'm really hurting in my relationship right now, I'm hurting and my relationship with myself because I'm not getting the things that I want. And I'm, I'm not being able to have the harmony that I want in my relationships. I just want to honor how hard that is. And just like I said, this is a journey. And at the end, you know, when you get to a place of acceptance and recognizing that, no, your life isn't exactly the way that you wanted, no, your relationships aren't exactly the way that you wanted, but you can learn to accept. And when, when we accept our partner, for who they are, when we accept the people that we're in relationship for who they are, then all of a sudden we can appreciate the positives, right? That we can appreciate the things that they do offer to us. But when we're constantly in a place of I need and I want and it's not enough and you're not doing it and we can't agree, we can't see any of the positive stuff and we don't experience any of it. So,

right.

So I want to talk about, you know, once we get to that place and it is work, how do we see those opportunities in conflict? What are the opportunities that can come out of conflict? Siobhan?

It is work. So glad. If you don't— if you don't hear anything else in this space today, it is work. Even when the work is working, it's still work to maintain it. So I would say some of the opportunities in conflict as it relates to self, as it relates to relationship with your spouse, your significant other, is deeper level of intimacy. So just as I said with misunderstandings— well, with understandings, you stand under, like, the, the perception of the person that you're in communication with, right? And it's the same for misunderstandings.

Mm-hmm.

I believe that misunderstandings are missed opportunities to actually do exactly that, stand under the point of view of the person. And when conflict is dealt with in a way that is healthy, fulfilling, it becomes rewarding. Because now what that conflict does is, one, now I can see things the way you see it. I have a different insight that I did not have before. I have a clearer understanding of what I need, but also what you need. And this is something I actually just shared this with my husband just a few minutes before this podcast started, right? Because he's like, with our oldest daughter, oh, I just feel like she doesn't love me because when I come home, like, she doesn't jump on me when I come in the door and whatnot, right?

Yeah.

That's not her personality. But because of his own need for that—

And his story that he creates.

Exactly.

Uh-huh. Yeah.

He only saw it— before he said it to me, he only saw it as she does it to him. So now with this conflict being here, it gives him an awareness of where he can still afford to validate himself a little bit more and understand that he's worthy enough to be able to ask her for what's needed in that instance. It creates a— it creates a space for them to have a deeper conversation. And it did, just that quick. He's like, oh my God, you know, I know that she still struggles with feeling like she doesn't deserve a right to take up space.

Hmm.

Our daughter just started therapy a few months ago, so she's still unlearning some things. And I think if you allow conflict to do it, it will show you the gaps that you still get to fill. feel. And it'll teach you how to create a space of grace for you and the person that you're dealing with.

That's so, so good. Yeah, that's so good. That is, that is excellent opportunity in conflict. And sometimes we don't think about that because we're feeling so bad when we're in the midst of it. And we're thinking about what we've lost instead of recognizing what we can gain. And even, you know, you mentioned intimacy, that, that An opportunity in unresolved conflict is intimacy. And that's so interesting because, you know, my first mind wants to go, but wait, it's not resolved. Where's the— where's the intimacy going to come? And but what we don't understand is that when we walk through difficult things with people, intimacy is created because there's a connection. Even unfortunately, there can sometimes be very negative connections, right? You know, we have, have very unhealthy connections with people that we are in abusive relationships With. Um, but the reality is, is that when we walk through something difficult with somebody, intimacy is created. And so you don't have to agree. You can have major points of content— of contention, even within a healthy relationship.

Yes. And recognize

that

somebody that gets it.

Yes. That they're, you know, the beauty in that actually is that when someone knows you so well, and accepts you, even if they don't agree with you, there is a deep sense of feeling loved and accepted that you don't necessarily get when everyone— everything is just perfect and together. We agree on everything, everything's perfect. You know, that's good. And that happens in marriages sometimes too. But when someone can know you well and not agree with you and still love you, that is, that is deep intimacy.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I even encourage couples to get a, get a greater understanding of what does agreement mean to you. I know, like, for me, we struggled in, in my marriage for like the first few years because my husband literally felt like if I didn't agree with him, I was opposing him.

Mm.

So we did not have a clear working definition or understanding of what agreement meant to the other person or what Rather what partnership looked like.

Interesting.

And so when you're clear on like— and this is what I tell people. When you come to see me and say, my marriage is failing because my husband or my wife does XYZ, and I'm looking at you like, how are you contributing to this space? A lot of people are like, they don't understand it.

Right.

Because there's a different level of awareness when you realize, OK, so the way I'm perceiving it is causing the chaos. The way I'm handling the conflict is causing the chaos. I tell people, conflict has never destroyed a marriage yet. Never, not one single time. The way you're choosing to handle it, the way you're choosing to, to not be aware, like, what are you pretending not to know, right?

Right.

So different things. It's just, it's, it's so many different layers to get like a clear understanding of what it looks like to walk out a relationship in love with yourself first and then with your spouse.

That's so good. So we want to ask ourselves, what's the story we're telling ourselves about this? Right. That's what it comes down to is what's the— what's the story you're telling yourself? You have to. Right. And how is that story feeding or contributing to this conflict? And what's the story he's telling himself? You know, my husband and I, you know, too, you know, we each tell ourselves different stories about things that are going on in our marriage. And it is really important to know what those stories are because often the stories are lies.

Hello.

That's just a reality. Most of those stories we tell ourselves when we are in high emotional— in a highly emotional state are lies, and they're based on history. And that creates and drives and contributes to that gridlock in our relationships.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

So we're looking at understanding our story. We're looking at walking through the grief when the, the, the actual thing is unresolvable. And we're looking at coming to a place of acceptance and then also realizing that intimacy can still be created. Intimacy can still be present in a relationship when there is unresolved conflict. And most relationships have some form of unresolved conflict. Maybe it's little, which is like, okay, we're just gonna agree to disagree. Of course. And then other ones, it's very large and it can be very painful.

But I think that— and it can be, no matter how big or small it is— I think couples win when they realize that even though we can't resolve it, it can be managed, right? It's like, uh, um, like a person with AIDS, right? I can, I can liken it to— that's the first thing that comes to my mind. Even though it's, it's playing out in a way, there's ways to manage it. Look at you know, Magic Johnson.

Right.

He— this man has been living before I came, before my mother really gave birth to me. He's been living with this thing, right, for a while. Conflict does not have to kill. Just because it's unresolved, unresolvable, it does not have to kill a relationship if you manage it well. And when I say manage it well, for example, maybe like punctuality. If we are going somewhere at 4:00 PM, My husband wants to be there by 3. For me, I'm West Indian. If it start at 4, that means it really starts at 7.

Yeah.

So I'm ready to pull up at 7. It doesn't take away— he's not right, I'm not right, he's not wrong, I'm not wrong. But how do we manage it? And I think when couples find a way to collaborate and bridge a gap, not compromise— I feel like compromise causes somebody to lose. But when you collaborate, when you bring your punctuality and my tardiness together and we say, hey, Okay, what's realistic for both of us? Understanding your personality type and mine. If it starts at 4, you want to go at 3, I want to go at 7, can we at least go at 5, 5:30? So feeling like you're not losing in order for your— for the marriage to win for real.

But isn't that what a compromise is? Isn't that a compromise? Are we just talking about how we look at it?

Right, that, that too, because I feel like with compromise is like, okay, somebody is just putting what they want off. Like, okay, we're gonna go with what he wants today, we're gonna go with what she wants today. And that happens at times.

Okay.

But I think when you're collaborating on the things that are unresolvable, both of you get to find a way that makes sense for you where nobody feel like they're losing.

Right.

So if this conflict was, well, you know I like to be on time and we're still gonna get there at 4, my question now becomes, what about me? Or if his thing is, I want to get there at 7, and he's like, well, that's too late for me, the question now becomes, well, what about me?

I think you made a really good point when you said, what about me? Because sometimes in relationships, we're not going to get what we want. We are not. Say that, right? There isn't a compromise. And so then sometimes we have to figure out as an individual how we can fill ourselves up, get that need met outside of a marriage in a healthy way. It's not always fair for us to assume that our partner can meet all of our needs. And that's where I, you know, want a woman to pay attention to and recognize that if you're not getting that thing, I don't know what your thing is, but if you're not getting that thing, it doesn't mean that you have to chuck the whole relationship.

Yeah.

But it does mean that you have to honor the fact that that's a need that you have and a desire that you have. And figure out a healthier way to get that met.

Absolutely. The needs that you have in a relationship is for you first. And that means, like, if I have a need, the strong desire to be loved and quality time and things like that, I can tell when my tank is empty. When I'm, when I'm just going crazy looking for my husband to fulfill it, and then I stop it, I'm like, wait, Have you spent quality time with you? Are you loving you the way you're asking him to do it right now? Are you giving you all the oohs, the ahs, the glitz, and the glamours? And a lot of the times, the answer is no. And sometimes we just don't know that we're placing this burden on our significant other to give us something that we're lacking. But that need does start with self.

It does.

It does start— it starts with you. It starts with you, even in a form of a boundary. if I have this need to be respected and I feel like I'm not getting that, it's my responsibility to put that boundary up. It's also my responsibility to uphold that boundary. So it— the, the needs start with you first.

Thank you, Siobhan. I think this has been a wonderful conversation. Can you think of any last thing that you would want to share with a woman who's struggling in this place of unresolved conflict? And, and her marriage or other relationship?

Absolutely, absolutely. I think the one takeaway that I would like to leave with the woman that's listening right now, and she's like, how? I hear all these things you're saying, but how? Start with getting centered on who you are. Do not place your identity in anything else— not your titles, your positions, your money, your success. Get clear on who you are as a woman. I feel like once you establish that, it's harder for you to be shaken by things that's happening outside of your control. So get clear, know who you are, love on yourself. Get Dr. Zoe's book because that thing has pulled me out of a rut last year. I'm reading it again this year because it makes sense. When you're full, even if a little bit falls over the top of your cup, you're not empty.

Right, right.

So that makes a difference.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate that. Um, how can people find you and how can people work with you?

You can find me at I Am Siobhan Davis on Instagram. I Am Siobhan Davis on Facebook. How can you work with me? I work with, um, small group couple sessions, um, just helping people navigate the tough stuff in marriage, right? Really doing the self-work. That is a program that is offered maybe 3 or 4 times a year. So if you want to work with me, you can definitely join my waitlist by sending me a DM on Instagram or sending me a message on Facebook. I will assess, see if you're a good fit, because it's a lot of work. And then we can move forward that way.

Okay, so you do mostly group type work, not individual?

Individuals, not too much. There's something different when community is in the room.

Okay,

when you get to see people looking like you trying to fight for the same thing you're fighting for, it makes a huge difference in a success rate. In my experience so far, it makes a difference.

That's really powerful.

It makes a difference. So absolutely, most of the work that I do, 90% of the work that I do is group coaching. And then you have access to like a breakthrough strategy session with me here and there. But most of the work is done in a group workshop style.

Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Those are some beautiful nuggets that you shared.

Thank you for having me. I look forward to collaborating with you again. This has been an amazing experience.

Thank you for listening to Stronger in the Difficult Places. New episodes go up every Tuesday. Follow me so you don't miss an episode and hop on my mailing list at drzoeshaw.com for regular encouragement and a few affirmations for staying strong in your relationships, including that sometimes difficult one with yourself. Have a strong week.