How to Stay Healthy in a Relationship with a Narcissist - Loving a Narcissist Series

This is not a podcast about being broken, although you may have been. This is a podcast about strength for women who find themselves in difficult relationships, including that sometimes difficult one with yourself. We'll look at your relationship through a lens of psychology, faith, and a little dash of my own kind of feminism. We're not fixing them. We're fixing you. And that changes everything. Welcome to Stronger in the Difficult Places. Save yourself, heal your relationships. Listen in. Hey there, welcome. I'm your host, Dr. Zoe, and I'm so glad you're here today. Today's topic is how to stay healthy in a relationship with a narcissist. This is episode number 3 in the Loving Your Narcissist series. But first up, my win and my fail. My win is that just before starting to record this episode, I got an email from my agent saying that my proposal is in good shape and we're gonna go out on submission now. Yikes and yay! This is an exciting and nerve-wracking process. I know once I go out on submission, my job is to distract myself from hitting refresh on my email every hour just to see if there's any updates, but my busy life does keep me pretty distracted, so that is a good thing. And of course, I will keep you guys updated when I get updated. So my fail: we're in a legal process of leaning on the school system to do what I feel is in the best interest of my daughter, who has special needs, specifically a syndrome called Prader-Willi syndrome. If you've ever had to deal with attorneys, especially an IEP and attorneys, God bless you. My fail is that my issue with procrastination, which I'm sure I've talked about before, is keeping me from doing all the things, providing all the paperwork, making all the calls that the attorneys are requiring me to do. And so it's delaying this process. So I'm just acknowledging that that is a fail on my part, which is causing the delays. And if you're a new listener out there, I like to just reiterate that I share every week, mostly every week. Last week I did not share my win and my fail, but I try to share my win and my fail every week. And it's not an easy task. It takes me sometimes 10 to 20 minutes to really sit and mine my week and focus on where did I win? Where did I fail? So it's a wonderful— Habit and rhythm for me to get into myself as just a means of reflection, and I encourage it for you as well. But I just want to be clear about what I'm doing. I'm not bragging when I'm sharing my wins, and I'm not looking for sympathy when I'm sharing my fails. I'm modeling a way that you can care for yourself and be very intentional about your life by paying clear attention to what you're doing well and what's not working. Because when you sit You take 5 minutes, you take 10 minutes, maybe 20 minutes sometimes if you have to. And I think the more you do it, actually possibly the longer it takes because you're growing. And so when you look at what you're doing in your week and you pay attention to where did I win and where did I fail, it gives you space to reinforce the good, congratulate yourself for the good, validate yourself for the growth. And then also it gives you space to reflect and make changes that are necessary. Because without intention and reflection, we just keep repeating. We just live on autopilot and we repeat. So my ability to look and go, oh wait, I'm the problem. I'm the reason why this process is taking so long. I'm delaying, my procrastination is delaying this, allows me to then go, how do I wanna change this? What do I need to do to make the necessary changes in my life? So there's my win and my fail. And I love it when you guys share your wins and your fails with me. Up next, how to be healthy in a relationship with a narcissist. I really wanted to cover this topic today because all of the conventional advice regarding being in relationship with a narcissist is to figure out how to get out of the relationship with a narcissist, is to help you disentangle yourself from the narcissist, which can be important, but that's not everybody's story. That's not everybody's life. Not everyone is able to do that or wanting or willing to. It's so much easier said than done, but that's not good advice for everyone. There are plenty of reasons why people choose to stay in relationship with a narcissist, and I think that when we don't acknowledge that, we are doing a disservice. And none of the reasons why you may choose to stay in relationship with a narcissist is because you are weak. There's actually been plenty of research that concurs that narcissists actually choose very strong partners who may be vulnerable— we'll talk about that later— but strong partners who are also pathologically kind. You may be pathologically kind, and I will talk more about that later in the series. I was going to address it today. I think I said I'm going to talk about being pathologically kind, but I really felt compelled to talk about actually being healthy in a relationship with a narcissist because the woman out there who doesn't feel that ending the relationship is an option, it seems that if all you're hearing is advice to leave, that, that must feel very demoralizing. So I'd like to give you some hope for health in your life, even if you choose to stay. You may be staying because you're trauma bonded— another topic for another day. You may be staying because you feel it's your ethical and moral obligation. You want to keep your family intact. You may be staying for now because you don't feel it's even feasible to leave financially. You may be staying because you're terrified of leaving. All of your reasons are valid, and it's okay. You are a unique person with a unique situation, and at this point in time in your life, you're doing what you feel is the very best for you. Whether you're staying for now or you're staying forever, I do have to concur that I believe it's impossible to have a healthy relationship with a narcissist if we look at the true definition of health in a relationship. But I also believe it's entirely possible to be healthy in a relationship with a narcissist. So that's what we're going to talk about today. But there are some key factors that you must be aware of in order for you to have health in this relationship. Number 1, he will not change. I'm using he just because it's easier. It could be a she, but in this instance, I'm going to say he. He will not change. This is who this person is. This is who they were when you met them, and this is who they are now. You've got to get crystal clear on that reality because it allows you to accept your partner for who he is rather than try to change We expend a lot of emotional energy trying to especially get the narcissist to fix, heal, change, to see your point of view, and to empathize with you. When you stop expending that energy, you've already increased your level of health. Number 2, you've got to know how he operates. When you've studied him well, you will be more easily able to navigate any narcissist pitfalls. Remember, one of the main drives of a narcissist is to control you, and most narcissists use 4 main tactics to manipulate you. So you got to know those well. The tactics are deflection, projection, isolation, gaslighting, and then one of them is really to manipulate other people, and that's generosity. So I'll talk about those real quickly. Deflection—that's blaming you for their actions or changing the subject during a conversation. So let's say maybe you brought up that you felt hurt. They made a joke about you at dinner with your friends. at night, and he might immediately say, well, you hurt me last week when you said you didn't like the pants I was wearing. An appropriate response for you would be to say, I'd be happy to talk about that after we've addressed what I just brought up. Always bring it back instead of getting caught up in defending yourself and getting away from the conversation at hand. The next one is projection. That's accusing you of doing something that he's actually doing, such as maybe having an affair. This one is so confounding sometimes because It can seem to come out of nowhere, these accusations. So when he's trying to accuse you of something that's completely out of character for you, don't get caught up in defending yourself. Simply say something like, it saddens me that you'd think I would do something like that, and move on. The next is isolation. So isolation is cutting you off from family and friends, either through guilting, shaming, blaming, or projecting. So often this doesn't include severe isolation like you'd see in the movies where the victim is like locked up in a house somewhere. But it's more of a subtle controlling. Maybe he never likes your friends. Maybe he says, you know, little things about your friends that make you question your relationship, like, oh, your, you know, girlfriend is jealous of you, or something that will just make you start to question your relationship and hopefully distance. Maybe he complains if you want to go out with your friends, or he's not hospitable or welcoming when your friends or family come over, so that it just becomes easier over time to avoid outings or to avoid hosting. Sometimes it's just an energy where, you know, he doesn't want you hanging out with anyone except for him. So when you can see this, when you can watch the show instead of getting inside of this show, things change. The next is gaslighting. We all know what gaslighting is. I didn't think I did a whole episode on it, and it's actually the Webster's Dictionary Year of the Word for 2022. It's when he denies your reality, making you question yourself. So when that happens, you have to stand your ground and do not allow whatever he says to make you question yourself. He'll likely never fess up to the truth, but it's important to let him know that his gaslighting isn't working. It could be something as small as he flirts with the neighbor whenever he sees her, and when you bring it up, he tells you, oh, you're just jealous, or you're just imagining that. Or it could be something really big, such as you have $1,000 missing from your nightstand and only the two of you live in the house. And he tells you, you must have misplaced it. And then the last one is generosity. That's appearing to be a good guy to others, which allows him to continue to, you know, be exactly how he is in the relationship with you. This one is difficult because it makes other people say, oh, but he's so great, or, you know, praise him to you when you really know the truth. And your answer is to do nothing about it, but just be aware that that is going on. So your role is to start paying attention and putting a name to his behavior. When you can see him using these tactics and you're not inside of them anymore, it becomes easier for you to stay grounded in reality and set up healthy boundaries. So there are 3 rules to responding to these types of manipulation. Number 1, don't engage. Number 2, don't try to have deep conversations. And number 3, don't defend yourself. So don't engage. That means don't engage in the gaslighting, the isolation, the projection, or the deflection. And number 2, don't try to have deep conversations. So that means don't try to have deep conversations about feelings, deep conversations about things that you know he's not interested in, like things that are going on with you that you're excited to share, but you know that you usually walk away from that conversation feeling disappointed because maybe he's belittling it or demeaning it. Don't try to have deep conversations where you're trying to persuade him to have the empathy that you need him to have in your relationship. Number 3, don't try to defend yourself. So you state a fact and you move on. Remember, you're not getting yourself sucked into the conversation, and the defending is what helps to just steamroll that conversation and create more drama and chaos. It doesn't actually get him to see your point. So all of what I've been talking about up to this point is about him, but I want to focus on you. Because it's not just about managing him. It's also about caring for yourself and valuing your needs that will keep you healthy in this relationship. So the things you're doing to care for yourself is one, you're recognizing the manipulation that we just talked about. Number 2, cultivate healthy relationships. Healthy relationships that ground you in reality are really the elixir to any gaslighting that might be going on in your relationship. That's the reason why narcissists try to pull you away from that. Because they don't want you to have access to anyone that can validate your reality. So your work is to develop and maintain friends that you can connect with, who provide you with a healthy emotional connection that you can reality check with, and they will tell you the truth. Maybe your friend will say, yeah, you know what, sometimes reality checking for a friend means they're going to tell you the truth. They're going to tell you when maybe you are ultra defensive or insecure, or, you know, any issue that a narcissist could be pointing out to you. And they'll also tell you When that could never be you in this or any alternate universe, that what is going on or what's being said or what you might be thinking about yourself is completely untrue. Find trusted friendships. And also with those friendships, you are going to go to them to share the good news, to share things first. So if your partner tends to demean or downplay good news when you share it, you want to share your good news with your close friends and family first so that you'll be built up and shored up a bit before you share it with your spouse who might have either a lackluster response or a demeaning response. But remember, you've already managed your expectations. You know he's not going to change, so you can expect that he will not respond in a healthy way. And then you can temper your disappointment when you're not expecting him to be someone that he isn't. Number 3, get a good therapist. I think that goes without saying. A therapist is really the only person that can be almost completely objective. I say almost because we're human, right? And yes, we have life experiences and our lenses. And although we always aspire to neutrality, we can't be 100% neutral 100% of the time, but we're way more compared to your family and your friends who love you and see you through that lens. A therapist can see you through a much more neutral lens and can be a better person to even reality check with. A therapist can help you stay on track and it could be accountable to your self-care. A therapist can help you even more importantly start to You really mine and look at your own personal issues because remember, there's a reason why the narcissist chose you. No, it's not because you're weak, but it definitely is because you have some vulnerability and you probably have some trauma and you have some issues that need to be dealt with so that you can shore those up. And remember, you're working on yourself and a therapist is the perfect person to do that with. Number 4, know who you are. Your life cannot be completely wrapped up in the relationship because the relationship In and of itself is not healthy, but you can make it the healthiest it can be, and you can certainly be healthy in it. But that can only happen when you know yourself, which means you're doing your own work, therapeutic or otherwise. You're understanding what makes you vulnerable to a narcissist, and you're starting to believe what you actually deserve, and you're starting to understand and learn how a relationship should be. The better you know, understand, and love yourself, the healthier you're going to be able to show up in this relationship. It's almost like Teflon. It just, you know, nothing sticks to it when you are really grounded in yourself. Number 5, I think it's so important to not lose empathy or compassion. You know, one of your superpowers, if you are a pathologically kind person, one of your superpowers is that you are kind, is that you care. It's often that our superpower, the place where we have the most strength, also possesses our kryptonite. So there's that flip side of the coin. You care, But you can often get caught up with a narcissist and use that care to help you stay in the relationship. So it's kind of, it seems conflicting because you're creating boundaries. You're not lessening your care for the person at all, but it might feel like it when you create boundaries that you're, you're also reducing your care. And what I'm encouraging you to do is keep those boundaries strong. But don't lose your general care for humanity, although you might need to express it somewhere else. Because sometimes our ability to empathize with the narcissist allows them to continue to emotionally abuse you in ways that aren't okay. So we have to learn to separate that care, but what we don't want to do is harden and lose that care, because that's a good quality that you have. It's just about learning to combine boundaries with your very best quality. And last, self-care, self-care, self-care. Can't say it enough. Being in close relationship with a narcissist is draining. Research has shown that a partner's stress response is activated and stays on high alert when they are in close proximity to a narcissist. Prolonged exposure can have a negative effect on your cardiovascular system, your immune system. Over time, repressed feelings from being emotionally and verbally abused can cause cancer. Heart disease, ulcers, back pain, and a host of other physical ailments. This is real, you guys, and I'm not saying this to scare you, and I'm not saying this to make you feel bad. I'm saying this to equip you to understand that the answer is to recognize that your whole body, not just your emotions, are in a high stress state. So you've got to focus, and it is so important. It is not selfish. It is imperative that you focus on implementing regular behaviors that are de-stressing, detoxifying, and relaxing to the body. So we're looking at things like regular massage, daily walks, meditation, yoga, journaling, maintaining a healthy diet. All of these contribute to a body that's better able to have the stress, a body that will be resilient, a body that will not just survive. We don't want you to just survive. Of course, we want you to thrive. So it always comes back to you. It always comes back to you having healthy boundaries, to you educating yourself, to you caring for yourself in those most beautiful way and cultivating outside relationships. If you're able to do this and be very intentional about this, then you can actually be healthy in a relationship with a narcissist. Do I suggest it? No, it's it's not the first choice, but I also understand that it is a choice that you have made for now or maybe forever. And so if you're going to make this choice to be in relationship with a narcissist. These are the things that you need to do to care for yourself in the very best way. So to summarize, 1, manage your expectations. He won't change. 2, don't engage, don't defend, and don't try to have deep conversations. 3, get to know yourself well. 4, develop healthy relationships and connections. 5, self-care, self-care, self-care. And I just want to emphasize in all the areas— physical, emotional, and Spiritual, financial, all the ways that you can care for yourself. I want you to focus on caring for yourself. Now listen, if you have any specific questions about loving a narcissist that you'd like me to answer, please email me at zoe@drzoeshaw.com or click on the Contact Me tab on my website. And you've got this. See you next week. Thank you for listening to Stronger in the Difficult Places. New episodes go up on Tuesdays Please subscribe and like so that other people can find my show and join my email list so that you never miss an episode. Have a strong week.