From High-Volume Surgery to a Different Approach to Orthopedic Care

Hey, rockstars. Welcome to today's episode with Dr. Josh Schacter. He is an integrative orthopedic expert, one of the few in our country that have broken free of the insurance world to help people at a deeper level. We're gonna talk about how he went through this mental journey of going from a physician in the system to breaking free of that system to help patients go a mile deep in their care. It's a powerful episode. We're gonna talk about the mental aspects, the actual tactical steps we can take to start that process, but overall, it's gonna be an inspiration To remind the younger version of you why it is that you joined this community of medical entrepreneurs in the first place. Enjoy the show. So, Josh, let's get right into it. You just got back from Ecuador. We're at this Mindshare coaching retreat together where JJ Virgin's on stage saying, Josh is the most relaxed I've seen him in years. What's that all about?

I don't know if you know this, Will, but the modern world is Really stress-inducing. It creates so much impact in our lives, and we don't even notice it. I have been through this period of my life where I, you know, transitioning from a traditional orthopedic practice into this integrative orthopedic space and working with, you know, major entrepreneurs and founders, and it's been stressful. Yeah, it's been difficult. And so, yeah, I have been dealing with burnout the last five years of my career. And that trip to Ecuador and to get to spend time and make deep, meaningful connections, not just with people like JJ who are innovators and visionaries, but also the natural world itself, was a profound experience that I think changed me at a sort of an elemental, you know, just a basic level.

So, it seems like the Ecuador trip amplified what you were already doing. Like, you were at a certain stage of calm prior to going. So this transition that you talk about going from a traditional orthopedic practice to more integrative medical practice, a big chunk of that is going from insurance to cash pay.

Right.

Was that, was that one of the most stressful parts of that transition for you?

I think we always, we undervalue ourselves so much and our skills and our knowledge. And we believe, we have this belief that's been given to us during the medical training that that people won't pay for, they won't pay extra for extra care, right?

Yeah.

Their health is only worth a copay and that somehow we should be involved in this traditional system where we have all of this insurance oversight and have to do all these things. And it's becoming more and more and more onerous.

Yeah.

And for me, the tradition to transition, let me do that again, the transition to cash pay, was essential in being able to provide what I wanted for patients. But it was also really, it's stressful to go against those, to sort of run counter to those things that you were taught, to work with those limiting beliefs. It's an extremely, especially for modern doctors and the way they were trained, it's an extremely stressful and really thought-provoking process. It forces a lot of internal work. And that's what it did with me.

Yeah, I can't wait to dive into that, Josh, because when you and I were talking beforehand about the internal transition that had to occur for that external pivot to happen was profound. I recognize in this healthcare entrepreneurial journey, there's all these like shifts in mindset we have to make, like being the doctor versus being the leader, right? Those types of shifts are hard for us to make. And to your point, like this insurance thing is super crazy. We're born into this world where we're— and it's intentionally chaotic and makes it so hard for us to get profits, which Which makes decision-making changing. So, when you talk about that internal process that allowed you to free up, what did that look like?

The Ashuar have this indigenous tribe that we stay with. We stay with the Ashuar people in the Amazon headwaters, and they call it the dream of the modern world, the modern dream. They're a dream culture, so they base everything on dreams. They actually don't make any actions during the day. Until they discuss their dreams from the night before.

No way. So, they dream and then they integrate those dreams or process those dreams.

Like same day. And, that's how they decide what they're going to do that day. But, we have this dream of the modern world, this thing that we expect, these conditioned responses we have to our own traditional system. And, there's nobody more conditioned in the traditional system than the provider, than the doctor, right? And so that shift, that transition from practicing traditional, like sort of linear, if this, then this, I'm going to give you this so I don't get sued. There's all of the different aspects of modern medicine that we have to deal with to a cash pay system where I'm going to make myself more available, where I'm going to be available for a patient, make a true connection with that person over a longer period of time than I ever had in the traditional system. That requires being available. And whether that's a spiritual path for you or whether that's work with a coach to help you to be more conversant with a patient, connect better. We're trained in medicine how to make somebody feel seen, how to create that impact and connection. And it involves sitting down.

Yes.

Leaning forward a little bit. You have to go so much deeper. When you're going to offer a service and you want to give true value, you have to go way deeper into the patient.

How scary.

It's really scary.

Yeah. It's funny because, you know, as someone who used to see a ton of patients, you know, in physical therapy, I'd see up to 150 in a week because we have different models. But, you know, for any doctor who's in the community treating, they're trained on these quick, meaningful interactions. Because they have to. So 10 minutes in some cases, right? You go in there, how's it going? Let's get to the point. You're feeling the pressure of your schedule. You're so good at it that many patients don't feel rushed, even though they're being rushed. Some still feel rushed. But to your point, for you to be able to spend as much time as needed by the patient to make profound change, and guess what? That cash pay is making it more of an accountable process for you and for them.

Right.

Seems scary because we're not— that's what we're not trained on. And we use terms like sales and marketing. But that's what we're talking about. We're talking about educating it to a level where people are being, are buying into it emotionally so that they'll actually trust you with their most meaningful information to help them.

Right. 80% of people feel rushed at their, at their doctor.

80%. Yeah. Yeah.

They feel like they don't connect with their provider. And that's, that's even people who love their doctor don't feel like they get enough time anymore. So that's a need. Right. Just spending time and having a connection with people is a true need in, in healthcare. And it's definitely not something that most of us get in an orthopedic surgeon's office, right? No.

Yeah, I've, I've had 11 orthopedic surgeries in my life. I've had a handful of orthopedic surgeons, so I especially love what you do. Most of them were in such a hurry, and they're cutting me open. How impactful has it been for you To be able to— we'll talk about how you bridge the fear in a bit, but now that you've overcome that and you have a very successful practice, integrated practice, how important is that extra time you spend with people in terms of helping them get better?

It's critical. I'm taking care of a man named Benny. He's 70 years old and he's got really bad hip arthritis and he just doesn't want a joint replacement, right? And so, we went through our process. He elected to do regenerative therapy. We've started that process with him. I did his first injections on Tuesday and I texted him the next day, hey, Benny, How you feeling?

No way.

And he's like—

texted them the next day.

Yeah. And he's like, who is this? I said, well, I sent you my number before. This is Dr. Schacter. Oh, I didn't expect you to actually text me. And he was so grateful just to be seen the next day, like just to be acknowledged, hey, you had something done. I had that as a practice with my patients in surgery, but we had it automated. So, a nurse called them.

Yeah. You did the best you could.

That personal connect— but I had 50 patients I saw a day then, right? I did 30 surgeries a week. In a lot of cases.

Did you really?

Yeah. And so that personal connection for him went, went so far. And I really believe that confidence in your therapy, that confidence in your treatment in a way that we haven't ever been able to get to with the traditional— in a traditional practice, at least I personally wasn't able to get there in a traditional practice. That's essential for our healing, because our confidence in the process makes a big difference in how the outcome You know, that in our result, no matter whether you're getting a knee replacement or whether you're having stem cell injection for your knee. In fact, I would argue that in regenerative medicine, because our mind impacts the way that our body functions, if we're using your own body's ability to heal and we're magnifying that, if we don't have that intention piece and if we don't have that confidence in the process, then it's not going to be as effective.

Yeah. It's almost like we're hiding behind This fear of, well, I don't know how I'm going to get paid if I drop my insurance. And by the way, I'm sure that is a real fear and probably a big part of your challenge as you transitioned into integrative. But the bigger fear that we're probably not being present to is this idea of, like, who am I if I'm not hiding behind the 10-minute visits? Right, right.

Who am I if I'm not doing this high-volume surgical practice was a big question that I had. And who, who am I to come in? And start doing things like gut optimization and hormone replacement therapy. I'm just an orthopedic surgeon. You know, I and we end up being a technician in our niche. Yeah, right. You're trained. You're fellowship trained. You spend all this time and money, and you know, love focusing on this one tiny aspect of medicine. What we don't understand. Especially in orthopedics, is that that joint is not just a structural problem, right? Yeah. It's a metabolic problem. It's a psychological issue. How are you relating to your pain? You know, how are you— what's not only what's the level of inflammation in your body that's affecting the joint and causing it to hurt beyond the structural, but how does your mind affect that? And to me, that's been a really formative process to figure out in myself what are the things that, you know, what are my mindset pieces that I can add, and then I can bring those to my And I use the tools that I've learned in my personal improvement process over the last 4 or 5 years in the visit, in the treatment. And the results have been really remarkable to somebody who just—

Yeah.

I make widgets, right? I do a knee replacement, I do 7 more knee replacements that day to— now, we're talking deeply about your healing and your intention behind the healing.

And, the results are so much bigger. But, knee replacement surgery, having treated thousands on the rehab side as a therapist, I can tell you it's a wonderful technology. But, what is so special about what you guys are doing who are brave enough to bridge this insurance gap is that you're treating the whole soul. And, this is where some people might think, ah, it's starting to sound flowery like, oh, we're talking about souls and all these things. The results speak for themselves. When you treat the human, I heard humanity in all that you said, you're treating the person from Every angle of what makes them real. You're able to do things you could never do before. And, and to put it in context for my audience, rockstars, Dr. Schacter's focus and target is to prevent over a million joint replacements. And is there a timeframe on that?

I'd like to do it by 2042.

So, over a mil— he wants to prevent— so, it's like he went from like being a technician of replacements to now preventing replacements from happening altogether. You can't do that in 10 minutes. And, rockstars, another thing he said is this idea of being a technician of your craft. When we're young medical professionals, we want the letters behind our names. We want the fellowships and all these things because it gives us confidence that we can actually help somebody. And that's all good. But in today's world, if we're really going to get out of this sick healthcare system that we're in and be able to make the impact that you're talking about, it's the bravery of understanding how to treat the whole patient from beginning to end that you're talking about.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, tell me about one of your— I would love to hear a result of someone's someone's life that you've impacted through this new way that you wouldn't have ever been able to before?

So, in 2023, I met a man named Buddy and he came in, he was about, he's in his mid-50s and he's got fairly significant knee arthritis. He's 100 pounds overweight. He's got diabetes. He's got all of the metabolic dysfunction, right?

Tall tale, like he's ready for a joint replacement.

Exactly. So, in my old life, I would've been like, okay, we'll do a joint replacement. We'll maybe worry about some of your health, but at the end of the day, as long as we get the numbers in, the hospital's going to be happy, my employers happy because remember now, 80% to 90% of your physicians are employed by another—

Yes.

By a major hospital system or a practice.

That's setting standards and targets. And, you as an individual cared about those other things, but it was secondary to the goal.

That's right, that's right. So, in Buddy's case, he elected to do regenerative therapy. We applied our entire Pinnacle Method to him, which is a metabolic reset. And so, we did hormone replacement therapy and we helped him with weight loss. He lost over 100 pounds. In about 12 months.

Oh my God.

Which is rapid weight loss. We like to really look at some metrics while we're losing that much weight and he maintained his skeletal muscle. We had him on a— Yeah.

This wasn't like a crash diet for the sake of a crash diet. It was medically supervised for his metabolic health.

Right. And, we did extensive treatments for his knees. We used bone marrow aspirate stem cells and PRP in combination. And, he's been pain-free now For over 30 months. And not only that, he— last time I saw him in the office, he actually broke into tears. He said, you know, I was worried about spending this much money on myself.

Oh my gosh. Cash pay, right? Insurance.

Right. Well, but when I went home and I talked to my family about this investment, they told me, they said, this is not just an investment in your knees. This is an investment in your longevity. And we want you to be here. so that we can spend quality time with you. You know, we're not really interested in you just having a knee replacement so you can walk again. We want you living and vital. And to me, that was so impactful and it really informs what we do every day.

Yeah.

We're really, we're not just doing this for the person who is having a treatment, we're doing this for the people who love them, who surround them with that love. And that's, I think, That's— we miss that in traditional medicine. We come in for a small— we come in for a problem and we give you a pill for the problem and we sort of hope it works. And if it doesn't work, well, you can see me in 8 months and we'll figure it out.

Right.

Right? Rather than that, let's take the whole spectrum of existence for that human being and let's factor it. That's really, really important when we're taking care of people. And that's what integrative orthopedics has given me is that whole perspective on the whole human and not just that organism and how that joint's affecting their lifestyle, but how that joint is affecting their granddaughter's life. You know, grandpa can't play with me. Grandpa, you know, can't watch my games because he can't get up in the bleachers. We're making those changes and differences for people every day. That's what's most rewarding is to see their granddaughter, right? To see their wife and the gratitude that they have for that person's presence back in their life.

I just really want to punch this because as you were talking, I was getting so inspired how this is the path for all healthcare entrepreneurs in the future. And there's all these, like, fears that we have, you know, like, are we overcharging people if we're not using their insurance and all these elements? But I guarantee that Buddy would look back on his money spent and gone, that's the best for me to have been. Again, 11 surgeries. If I could have done something in integrative care that would have eliminated the trauma. And by the way, it's physical and emotional. There's, there's all these prolonged effects of going under anesthetic that I've learned about that affect the brain. Like, I've— I'm a living example of this as a patient, not just as a healthcare entrepreneur. So when I hear someone like you on the highest end of the spectrum, because let's be honest, compared to like physical therapists on the bottom, an orthopedic surgeon profitability-wise is able to maybe justify just staying in that world financially.

Yeah.

How much more so that you've bravely been able to bridge that gap and be able to do that? Should the rest of us look at you and go, "Yeah, we can all do it. We can do it." It's a viable.

It's a viable way to make a living. I am not going to say that I left a million and a half dollar a year salary.

Yeah.

To make more money in integrative orthopedics, in functional medicine. No, I guess well, well, I'm sure it's. It's possible and we're working on our business and we're working on other ways for us to have abundance. But at the end of the day, if we really want to take good care of people, in my opinion, it's okay to sacrifice some of our income for a period of time to build something that's truly great around true healing.

Yeah.

Yeah, around true connection with other people. Look, people, they want a quick fix, they think, but what they really desire is a transformation.

What they really need.

Yeah, what they really need is a transformation, not just, not just the way that their body works, but the way that their mind works.

Yeah.

And the way that they relate to their health in general. And so I feel like when we do things that are very traumatic, like put somebody through a major surgery and all of the stress that comes with recovery, and you saw it yourself in your practice, right? It's 2 to 5 years to, to, to point of maximal improvement. Totally. As good as it's going to get after a knee replacement. What if we can save people all of that stress and anxiety, all of that depression, all of that anesthetic burden and that pain? You know, pain has a metabolic consequence. The longer we spend in pain, the shorter our lifespan.

Let's, let's pause right there. Uh, rock stars, did you hear that? Could you say that one more time? Let's punch that in.

The longer we spend in pain, The shorter our lifespan.

Oh, man.

People with chronic pain have been shown to live, on average, 3 to 5% less, you know, shorter than people without chronic pain. And then you also have the fact that what kind of quality are you having?

Right. Let's talk about like just quality versus quantity. It's like that quality of life when you're in pain, as every healthcare provider can relate to, is like so dramatic. So for you to be able to eliminate all that trauma, Mentally, physically, and it helped emotionally in and of itself is such a beautiful thing. And the part that I get excited about too, as people are listening to this on their way to work or as they're trying to figure out like what they're going to do with their crazy day, is that your life has gone from insane chaos to hyperproductive. It's not like you're on a beach 24/7, but you're— could you talk into that? What's life? Could you tell the audience what's your life like now compared to back to those days?

And so just to give you a An impression of what an orthopedic surgeon's life is in a busy practice. And I did almost 1,000 cases a year, which is in the 99th percentile for orthopedic productivity.

For a busy industry, you were busy.

Yeah. So every morning started at about 5:00, you know, on my office days. And I did office twice a week. I would see 50 patients, and my PA would see 30. And then on a busy OR day, I'd start the OR at 7:00 AM, and I'd often be done about 6:00 PM. Yeah. And we'd do between 7 and 10 joint Replacements and other surgeries a day. And that's a lot of stress. That's a lot of stress on the body. That's a lot of mental capacity that's taken. And that's a lot of, you know, and then I always really cared a lot about my patients, so I fit really well with an integrative model.

Yeah, you were born to do this.

Not so great in traditional. And so I carried a lot of that with me all the time. And for any provider, surgeon, especially surgeons who are out there, you know, it's okay to care about your patients. But we carry this heavy weight all the time, especially when we're not feeling truly aligned with what we're doing. Like, a lot of the surgeries I was looking at, I feel like we could do this better.

Yeah. Right?

I feel like we could do this different. And contrast that with what I have today. Now, I still get up at 5, but it's to get up to meditate for an hour. And then, I spend some time working out. I do a lot of optimization for my day. Coming up. I get— I start my clinic day at about 9:00. I'm done at about 3:00. My clinic days are very, very productive because I really can focus and be present with each patient. Now, I see on average now, instead of 50 patients a day, I'll see 10 is a really busy day.

Yeah.

And for a new patient, I'll spend an hour and a half with each new patient.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Yeah, we really want to get to what the root cause, because You know, we all have this impression that, oh, my knee hurts, it must be a structure in my knee that's bothering me.

Right.

But there's so many more factors that add into why that, that, that pain is present.

Yeah.

Right?

It's so amazing. And so, as you're healing these people at a deeper level, you're healing yourself. It's like almost this karma effect of because of the bravery you had in taking that leap from insurance to integrative cash pay, you're in the position now where you're profoundly impacting You're impacting fewer people's lives going a mile deep versus a mile wide. Instead of doing surgeries for a mile wide, you know, whatever— how many cases was it a year?

Almost 1,000.

Dude.

I did 15,000 surgeries in my career.

So, 1,000 a year, we're in 50 a day down to 10 a day, but we're preventing surgery. We're not just affecting the orthopedic condition. You're probably addressing— tell me if this is true— that you're addressing other things are resolving that they weren't there to see you for that because of this Right.

Because we use a holistic approach, we're able to solve problems like type 2 diabetes. This is a curable disease. Let's face it. It is a disease of our lifestyle. And so, oftentimes, I mean, I have so many patients that come in with elevated diabetes numbers. That A1C is the number that we measure that kind of tells us where our blood sugar's been over the last 3 months. And, I have once my PA's husband came in, his A1C was 400. Hemoglobin A1c was 11. He had no diagnosis. So, diabetes is a silent disease. You can be totally dysregulated, totally out of whack with your blood sugars and in danger. And not know. Oh, you feel it.

Okay. You just don't know what it is.

You just don't know what it is. You just feel down, you just feel run down, or you feel tired, or you feel, you know, you feel achy. There's all types of symptoms that we have. You know, the long story short is that in 5 months, We had his hemoglobin A1C down below 6, which means he's no longer diabetic. So, we basically cured him and all of the risks and problems of diabetes. You know, his heart disease risk is lower, his stroke risk is lower, his risk of dementia is much lower. And all we did was help him regulate his blood sugar. And we did this using diet and nutraceuticals and microdoses of GLP-1. Wow.

Was he there for an orthopedic diagnosis?

He was there because he tore his— he tore his quad tendon.

Okay. That's— yes, that's the point.

He injured his knee. He comes in. We note that he has diabetes. And then all— and then our treatment really focuses on helping him with his metabolic control. We did knee treatments as well, and his magnificent outcome. But the outcome is so much better because he's improved his longevity. He's improved his quality of life. And you said, Well, you don't really feel that. I hear from patients all the time, I didn't know how good I could feel.

They don't even believe what's possible because they're so used to being sick.

Yeah, we're used to being— in this country, we are used to being chronically ill. Chronic illness, 40 to 60% of our kids now have chronic illnesses. You know, it's a massive amount in the adult population. 80-plus percent of adults now have a chronic condition.

Wow.

So we're so used to feeling sick, we're so used to feeling run down, we're so used to that brain fog that we don't give it a second thought. We believe that we're supposed to be this miserable, that this is modern life, that this is aging, that this is somehow supposed to be this way. And in medicine, we really reinforce that. Well, you're getting older, you can expect this. This is just a problem. You need to write off your youth. Well, I'm going to argue, and everybody here at this conference and everybody that I meet in the longevity space argues that that's not the case, that we don't have to, you know, give in to this idea that we're just going to be sicker as we age.

Right.

It's just not true. Yeah.

I think what's interesting about this, Dr. Schacter, is that for me, when I saw you this trip, it was really powerful how present you were. When I sat down with you for the first time, the way you looked into my eyes, I don't even think you were conscious of it. I was just like, oh, he's right here.

Yeah.

And you can feel people's presence. You can feel their intentionality. You can feel their care. And so as a provider, it's so exciting because none of us get into this without having a greater desire to impact other people's lives. And I would say that any healthcare entrepreneur only gets into it because they have probably the greatest desire, truly.

Right.

Because they are willing to take on anything and everything in order to increase their impact. There is a hope for greater income, which again, that's part of the equation. You didn't do this transition to make more money. You'd make money to make bigger impact, but you need more money to make bigger impact. It's part of how this works.

Right.

So as you— as people are watching this, there's people of all specialties watching this, and they're like, man, I'm so tired of playing the insurance game. And they're, they're hearing like they're really picking up what you're putting down right now, Dr. Schacter. Where do they begin? How do they even start this mind-numbing, crazy idea of like, I'm going to stop taking insurance contracts and I'm going to take that brave choice to start going integrative, cash pay, all those things?

I think the first step is really to make a decision and commit to that decision. There are so many resources now that are available for people who want to convert to cash pay. Yes, we teach practices how to convert in a very short period of time. We did our cash conversion about 3 months. 3 months?

Yeah.

So it doesn't have to take this whole prolonged amount of time. We were doing about 80% of our revenue in cash within 3 months.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. And I transitioned to not doing any surgery, you know, last year, about 18 months into our practice. I just— I don't feel called to do surgery. What are your desires? And a lot of us in medicine are reacting from a place of burnout.

Absolutely.

It's so prevalent. And you see the numbers right now. I just got a bulletin from the AMA. Burnout is now down among physicians. Well, that's just not true.

Crap.

There's no way that— I'm sure that they're very small sample size of respondents to—

Yeah, people in Hawaii who were like on Saturday. It was 2% better.

Yeah, no, it's not better. And there's more of us and it's worse.

Absolutely.

Unfortunately, we're getting it earlier. Earlier and earlier in our careers.

Yeah.

And so taking some real thought into how you're going to transition. I mean, you can take the burn the bridges type approach where you just destroy everything and build something new.

Terrifying.

Which is terrifying, which is what we did. And it has—

Its benefits.

You get a chance to make all the mistakes, that's for sure. But being a little bit thoughtful about your transition is a good thing. But don't think too long or too much. Imperfect action is way better than never taking action at all.

Imperfect action. Rockstars, imperfect action is way better than not taking any action at all.

Yeah. The other thing to think about is that there are masterminds and resources. I think JJ's mastermind is an excellent one for people who are thinking about transitioning to cash.

Absolutely.

Reaching out to somebody like myself who's done it, and I'm happy to have conversations, and you'll have my email and phone number, I'm sure, up there. And I, I'm happy to have conversations with anybody who wants to talk about it because it really is essential for us to offer an alternative to the traditional method. The other thing that we need to realize in medical school, unless— I'm not a business person. I wasn't trained as a business person. Right. I don't have an MBA. If you don't have a resource resource for somebody who's good with the business side, then you need to seek that resource.

How did you find that?

I was married to it.

Oh, that's right, Amber.

Yeah, Amber is our CEO. She's also the visionary behind why we do what we do. So my wife, Amber Schachter, who's who I've been married to for 29 years now, is was was you know she saw my burnout. She saw the pain that I was in, and she and she was like, well. Let's do let's do this private practice, but let's do it a different way. Yeah, and and at first I was really resistant, and probably in some ways I'm still really resistant to just some of the things that we do because I carry those patterns. But having somebody that can either advise you on the business side or or having somebody in your business that can help you with that transition is really important. I think the final piece is it's a piece called that we call limiting beliefs. Yeah, and and. Steven Pressfield wrote a book called The War of Art. He talks about resistance. And anybody who is considering making this transition or is in burnout should read this book.

Okay.

Because it gives us an idea. He calls it resistance. And resistance are those internal beliefs that limit us from making that step.

Yeah.

In medicine, we're trained and indoctrinated Not to believe that we can do it ourselves, and not to believe that we should be in business. Right? And so we have to we have to overcome those limiting beliefs in ourselves.

Yes, Dr. Schachter, I can't thank you enough for being on the show. I'm feeling very present with rare and beautiful a thing it is that you and your wife Amber. Are together. Like, there's this really cool thing because individually you're, you're powerful, and in a high percentage— I don't mean this as a compliment— a high percentage of the best people I know, together you're an unstoppable force. There's this really neat combination. So I love that you called that out because not everyone's going to have that wonderful, powerful resource as an Amber, and some people are developing to become like a Dr. Schacter as well. So just recognizing that they don't have to be— it's action that matters. That they can get the help they need by reaching out, and I'll put your information in the in our show notes below so that people as they are like feeling inspired in this episode to go okay then then we can do this. I just want to thank you because what you're doing isn't just impacting those lives; you're setting a new standard for our system as you help each person individually. You're paving the the path as as a trailblazer for other entrepreneurs who are sick in their own burnout systems. Who are dreaming that maybe there's a chance for them to be able to do something like they initially dreamed about when they were coming into medical school. I dream I can make a bigger difference. But then they get disenfranchised by this overwhelm. You're showing that it's still possible, that it validates every choice they made.

Keep dreaming big and take action on your dreams. I think that's the most important take-home of any sort of transition is think about the big, the big why. And the how will come, right? You have the resources, they're available, reach out to them and make a change. Okay.

Well, Dr. Schacter, thank you so much for being on the show. It means a lot that you would take the time to be with me.

My pleasure, brother.

All right, rock stars, please reach out. He's the kind of guy that would absolutely answer emails, have conversations. We're all in this together to make a bigger difference in healthcare. As always, this is Will Humphries reminding you to lead with love. Until next time.

Bye.