GT Dave on Life, Kombucha and Medicinal Mushrooms

This episode is brought to you by Nourish Me Organics, the gut health and home fermentation store. Nourish Me Organics, my company has a storefront in Cheltenham in Melbourne, and also an online store. If you want to make your own fermented foods, we have got you covered. Narishmi Organics has an extensive range of home fermentation kits to make your own. Kombucha, kefir, yogurt, fermented vegetables, whatever you desire. When it comes to fermented foods, Nourish Me Organics have got you covered. We have very easy to use home fermentation kits, including all the cultures that you need comprehensive instructions. So and on the website we've got heaps and heaps of information. So check out Nourishment Organics www.nourishmeorganics.com and use the code GT Dave for 10% off. Hey guys. Crib and Govenda from the Gut Health Gurus podcast.

I've got a background in food science and nutrition and today I have an absolutely amazing guest. I'm so blessed that GT Dave actually agreed to come onto the podcast. I'm eternally grateful for having someone of GT's stature on the podcast. GT welcome to the podcast.

Thank you for having me. Very excited to be here.

What I like to do at the start of every podcast is to get it from the horse's mouth. Now who is GT Dave?

Well, depends on who you ask. GT is a lot of things, so to kind of recap it really quickly is, you know, GT is a young man that was born here in Los Angeles with, you know, was born into a very spiritual and holistic family that believed that food could be your medicine as well as your poison. And I was raised a vegetarian and exposed to many different kind of health foods and healthy lifestyles from as far as I can remember. And kombucha was one of those things that I was exposed to through the kindness and wisdom of my parents. They started making and drinking kombucha in the early 90s is when the first kombucha culture came into my household. And like many things that my parents exposed me and my brothers to, kombucha was this beautiful nature crafted offering that my parents fell in love with, not just how it tasted, but also how it made them feel. And then subsequently I was able to observe their love affair with kombucha. And I was initially confused by it because to be honest, kombucha is one of the most bizarre things that my parents had ever brought into the household. But it wasn't until kombucha helped my mom with her breast cancer that I believe I was. The universe was kind of forcing me to give it another chance. And so I did. And not only being inspired by my mother's success from drinking it during her battle with breast cancer, but also I became really inspired by how at the tender age of 15 years old, how I noticed differences in my body and in my health from drinking kombucha. So those two aspects really inspired me to do something with it. Because at the time. Now keep in mind, this is still early to mid-90s, there was really no such thing as kombucha in a ready to drink form. So I felt that it was my kind of opportunity and blessing to share this gift that I felt had blessed my family's life, my mother's life, and subsequently my life. That it was a gift that I was blessed to share with others. And at the tender age of 15, that's exactly what I did. I started from nothing and I started with no business plan, no product idea. It was really just, hey, I love what this kombucha is and what it does, and I just want to put it out there in its purest, most potent form.

Great. That's an amazing origin story. And it's really inspiring that those early days at 15, you were firstly incredible parents to expose you to this amazing lifestyle and products like kombucha and. And then transitioning onto your mom's struggles with her cancer and potentially how kombucha aided in that part of her life. So incredible story. So I'm really fascinated. Firstly, I've got to ask you, this is a burning question. So is your first name GT and then your last name is Dave?

Yes. Which is very confusing for many people. And I mean, I know people, I have known people for many, many years that still call me Dave. So it's something that I've grown accustomed to. But whenever I have the chance, I do have to clarify and say, GT is my first name. It actually originally stood for George Thomas, which is the name of both my grandparents because I'm the baby in the family. But my parents quickly renamed me GT because George Thomas Dave just sounded like three first names. And it sounded like I was going to be bullied for the first half of my life.

Fair call.

That's a pretty wise choice by your parents. And it's a very unusual name. G.T. dave. Hats off. And you've got the name on the bottles of kombucha as well. So what a legacy that you're going to leave for the world. So it's amazing. So I've got to ask you this as well. So at the age of 15, so you've discovered this weird and wonderful tonic called kombucha. Now, what was the first brew that you ever made? What was it like? What was that experience? If you can jump back in a time machine and go back to the memory banks now, what was the way that you felt and what was the experience of first making it and watching this beautiful culture grow like, well, you.

Know, it was a lot of things. So the first thing, my first impression of kombucha, of course, was the brew that my father was making. So my father would, and I don't think he knew it at the time, but he was over fermenting the kombucha. So it was almost like pure vinegar, which is why when he first turned it on to me and my brothers, I was a little turned off to it because I said, I can't stomach this. So, but when, as I mentioned, after, I was essentially encouraged to give it another chance, I started to not only drink it, but I actually started to make it on my own. I started to play with certain proportions of using green tea versus black tea and changing the size of the vessel and even the duration of the fermentation and the temperature that I put the batch in. So they're just like a plant. Kombucha is almost like a form of agriculture where you start with your seed, but it's really the soil, the. The sunlight, the air, the love and the environment that it's in that really determines what kind of fruit or vegetable you're going to harvest from that seed. So that's when I started to realize that kombucha isn't a singular thing. It's very agile, and it has so many different sides to its personality. So then I realized my objective was if I can maintain the potency of kombucha, which is obviously what my parents gravitated to, but I could make it more palatable, then that is perfection. And so that's what I aimed for and initially just started with the basic roux of making sure that it wasn't overly powered or, excuse me, wasn't overwhelmingly vinegary. And then that's also when the introduction of additional ingredients came into play. So my first, most successful flavored kombucha, and it's actually our most successful kombucha flavor to this day, is our ginger aid. And the reason why I bring that up is the ginger Aid is one of my most successful and one of my proudest offerings. Because in my mind, if you can make something delicious and make it functional, then that's the best of both worlds. I never wanted to dilute my kombucha. I certainly wasn't trying to turn it into a fruit juice by diluting it with these sweetened juices. But I really wanted to do something that would enhance itself personality in a positive way, but also even enhance its benefits and its health attributes. And our ginger aid certainly does that.

I agree with you. There's so many interesting nuggets right there, Dave, that kombucha is like this symbiotic culture, isn't it? And it's alive. So whether it's the environment and the oxygen that's flowing through it. Also, I'm a huge believer of just the gratitude and the spirituality aspect of the household as well, because water, water is impacted by energy, so it's not surprising. I'm not sure whether you've seen some of the work of Dr. Emoto on water and formations of water crystals and gratitude and all that kind of stuff, which is fascinating to me. So I'm firmly believing that the energy that we put into it, the love that we give, even luck with plants, growing garden plants in the garden, the love that we give it is definitely expressed within the end product, whether it be a plant that you're growing, a seedling to a plant, or a batch of kombucha. So that's really beautiful. So you started to use the ginger almost in the. I don't want to get too complex too early, but just for the listeners, we also had some experts in the kombucha world, which you might know as well. Hannah Crumb's been on the podcast in the past, so people could jump back and listen to that episode. And we had another very interesting character from Canada, Sebastian bureau, and he's been on the podcast from a food science perspective as well. But Dave is really one of the pioneers, so I wanted to understand from his perspective what his views on kombucha are. So you used the ginger being your. One of your most favorite and famous brews. So did you use ginger in the first ferment or did you use it in the second ferment?

That's a great question. So, you know, this is my opinion. I'm not saying that I'm the end all be all. But in my opinion and in my experience, I've noticed that kombucha really loves simplicity. And what I mean by that is yes. You know, a lot of very artistic, artisanal people would say, well, why are we using basic green and black tea? Let's use white tea, let's use yerba mate, let's use all these exotic teas. Well, the reality is that sounds lovely and you'll get an initially good tasting batch, but over time you'll slowly start to kill the culture because you start to starve it of certain things that it needs to thrive. So kombucha really does thrive the most in just a simple black tea based. And the reason for that is for those listening that don't know, this black tea is the same plant of a green tea. It's just fermented. And that fermentation creates other qualities that really enhance and encourage the fermentation of kombucha. So to rewind to your question is kombucha really should and should stay this way is it's, it's made up of purified water, organic green and or black tea, a fermenting agent of some kind that has actual simple carbohydrates or sugars in it. So whether that's honey, agave, fruit juice or cane sugar, that's what you need because I know a lot of those things, especially in this world. Sugar is so demonized, it's important to remember that sugar was put on this planet as fuel. Fuel for us as humans and fuel for other living things. And kombucha is no exception. It's a living thing. It needs fuel to grow, fuel to reproduce. And so the fermenting agent is for that. And then last but not least, an actual kombucha scoby, a physical tangible, usually rubbery in texture and usually circular in shape. You need to utilize a scoby and you need to ferment that batch, preferably in a small size, because that's when you yield the best quality. But you want to ferment that batch in five gallons or less. You want to ferment it for at least seven days. So that's, in my opinion, the non negotiables. Now what you do after that is you have a little bit more permission to play. So back to your question of when we add the raw ginger juice. We add it after we harvest our kombucha. After the tea has been fully fermented, the scoby has ran its course, it's reproduced itself, it's consumed the fermenting agent and now we have kombucha. Then you can layer in fresh ginger, fresh strawberries, fresh raspberries, you name it but that initial fermentation is really in very many ways like the baby in the female's womb. That's the most sensitive time. You really don't want to mess with that.

Absolutely. And then that's the same advice that I give my consumers as well, is keep it simple. The first ferment is all about the basics of just getting a nice kombucha brew and then you can get really funky and creative with the second ferments where you can play around with gingers and different types of juices and spices and herbs. It's just to maintain that really healthy mother culture. So then you can use the daughters in subsequent batches and keeps it going. Whereas if you play around with the first ferment, then there's a huge risk of failure and you essentially losing your whole culture. So hundred percent with you there. Gt yeah.

And you can also mutate your culture, use other ingredients. Believe it or not, ginger has natural suppressing qualities in it that it actually will suppress the fermentation because it has antibacterial qualities and enzymes that actually compete with that initial fermentation. So if you have ginger in your initial brew and you're trying to ferment it, what's going to happen is the kombucha culture is made up of hundreds if not thousands of bacteria and yeast. That ginger juice will start to compromise some of those strains. So when you're done, or if you've done this a couple of times, your scoby is now mutated and the proportions and the ratio of the beneficial bacteria in yeast has changed. You're essentially dealing now with a mutated or compromised culture, which is not a good thing.

Yeah, I've seen that many times in my own experimentation where you try and use some sort of herbal tea and then you get this weird looking colored shaped scoby and then it's pretty much you've shifted the microbial profile of the product so substantially that it's probably not going to be able to be recovered and go back to normal. And you're absolutely right. Things like turmeric or ginger, they're all antimicrobial type compounds in there that are going to shift the bacteria and yeast in a certain way. Then also when you're adding different types of food sources and complex sugars, again, you're going to be feeding different types of species of yeast and bacteria which is going to be very different from the normal kombucha ecosystem. So 100%. So okay, let's move on. Gigi. Firstly, I've got to say I think we're around the same age. Oh really? Yeah, Yeah, I think 78. Are you born in 78?

Close, close.

Oh, okay.

What month were you born?

I was born in Feb. February.

Okay. I was born in November. I was born in 77, so I'm slightly older than you.

Oh, 77. So these are the things, they can get terribly wrong on the Internet. Wikipedia's got you as 1978. Yeah, someone's going to go up into Wikipedia and update that. But I gotta say, you look amazing. Like we're around the same age. You look extremely vibrant and your skin looks great. So what's the secret?

Gt well, honestly, I mean not to sound like a broken record, is I genuinely believe that food as medicine. And so I eat to live, I don't live to eat. And so what that means is I make a conscious and very analytical decision on what I put in my body in the form of food, what I put on my body in the form of clothes or chemicals or water or detergents or whatever. And also what I do with my body. Right. I think it's important my body and my mind because the two are naturally connected. So I make sure that I rest a lot, make sure I drink a lot of water. I make sure I eat incredibly well and plant based and have been plant based for almost all of my life. I make sure that I eat nutritional food, which the rule of thumb is if the food's colorful, you're great because that color is antioxidants and nutrition. I work out every day, I make sure I break a sweat at least once a day. And most importantly, I always, no matter what, try to immerse myself in nature because I believe that not only is nature the greatest artist, but I also believe that nature is the greatest healer. And you know, whenever I can I'll take, even if it's a two days off or a three day weekend. My favorite place to go to is the island of Kauai, Hawaii, because it's still raw, untouched nature. And just to do these long hikes in like a rainforest, I come out and I feel 10 years younger. And to me that's kind of the recipe for anti aging and to be ageless.

I'm with you 100%. I mean if we look at our evolution as humans, we came from nature. So people are looking for these external miraculous pills to take. But I think certainly the answer is in nature because that's, we've moved, we've become so disconnected from nature in terms of the food products that we put in our bodies, the skincare regimes, the water quality, the environmental pollution, the EMF radiation, Bluetooth, WI fi, chemtrails, chemtrails, blue light toxicity, circadian mismatches in the light that's hitting our bodies. Say I 100% agree. Going into a forest, the Japanese call it forest bathing. There's the energy coming from the trees itself, being grounded on the earth with bare feet, jumping in the oceans, all these things. If you look at any of these blue zone regions, there is some element of that happening in their cultures. And certainly eating a lot more vegetables, more plant foods, eating the rainbow, lots of colored vegetables, all those polyphenols and to feed the gut microbiome and all that. So you're definitely onto something for sure. And what does your morning routine? You must be an incredibly busy character. I mean, running such a substantial company. What does your morning routine look like when you've got that level of stress and staff and business issues to deal with? What's your routine look like?

Well, first of all, I have two non negotiables as I think I touched on earlier is eight hours of sleep minimum and a workout in the morning. So what I do is when I get up in the morning, I refrain from reaching too quickly for my iPhone, refrain from checking emails too soon. It's really allow the body and the mind to wake up to kind of set the foundation for the day and make sure that I also listen to my body. If I slept well, how do I feel? How does my head feel, how does my belly feel, how do my muscles feel? And then after about. And so what I do, to answer your question more specifically, is I start off with a smoothie and I make my own smoothie. And I like making the smoothie because it's a bit of a ritual for me. And again, it allows me to play with different ingredients because my smoothie has multiple iterations and varies in its quality and flavor from day to day, naturally also influenced by the ingredients that are available depending on the time of year. So I start with a smoothie. I drink well, actually I start with celery juice and then I move to a smoothie. And after I finish my smoothie, which I like to drink it slowly, about 30 minutes passes and then I slowly check emails and I don't respond to every email, but I look at for the most important emails. And then after that I go and I meditate. And a lot of times people could argue why do you meditate after checking emails? But it's almost like the emails inform the vibration of the day, and I have to meditate to. All right, set my intention, prepare my mind. Sometimes the work week can feel a little bit like going to war, depending on what challenges and obstacles are thrown your way. So it's almost like meditation to me is almost like mental exercise. So I go from mental exercise to then physical exercise. So then I jump in the shower. It's a little weird. I shower before I go to the gym, and I'll go to the gym and I'll work out for an hour. And my workouts consist of weightlifting, kickboxing, cardio, you know, yoga, Pilates, whatever, or a hike. Anything. Again, that will keep my body guessing on what I'm going to throw its way as far as exercise and things that also stimulate me mentally, which is why I love kickboxing, because I love the choreography, if you will, of that type of activity. And then from there I come to the office and, you know, whatever the world is holding for me that day, whether it's innovation, whether it's financial matters, whether it's business decisions, whether it's creative decisions, or all of the above, I feel that I'm now ready to take on the world. And so that's what my Monday through Friday mostly looks like.

That's incredible. It's a very grounded way to start the day. And I must ask, because I'm also a practitioner of yoga and also meditation and also martial arts in terms of Krav Maga. So what type of meditation technique do you use?

It varies because to me, and I think this is important for anybody listening to this meditation. It doesn't need to be something so specific. I think a lot of times people are intimidated by meditation because they think that they have to sit in a certain pose and they have to have their hands in a certain way, and they have to like chanting or doing Buddhism, Hinduism, something. And no, meditation, to me, is taking a mindful moment to have a conversation with yourself, whether that's how your day went, how your week went, how your month went, how your year went, how your life is going, which is more retrospective or looking forward and saying, this is what I want out of the day. And so, again, it can be a combination of those two things. It can also be just like. And a lot of times I do this, especially when times are tough, is you have a meditation of gratitude, which almost becomes like a mantra, because I think it's important, especially in this day and age with social media and smartphones and Internet and all of that, that we, you Know, we certainly become disconnected. And we've also become so pressured, whether we know it or not, about this instantaneous gratification, success, accomplishment, results, whatever you want to call it. And it's self imposed pressure. And through that self imposed pressure, we, we overlook the things that in my opinion, are the most meaningful. Our loved ones. Health and, you know, air in our lungs and a heartbeat in our bodies, a clear head, the ability to get up, you know, having a roof over our head, having running water, all those little things that we take for granted. I think it's important on a regular basis that you acknowledge them and also acknowledge, again, the most important thing on this planet is Mother Nature and thank her for providing these things. Whether, again, it's the squirrel that you see run across the tree branch when you look out your window, or the bird, or the sunshine or the rain or the clouds or the wind, you know, I think it's important to ground yourself in that nature. And just like you said earlier, just like physically grounding yourself in nature with bare feet on the soil, I think you have to do it from a mental standpoint as well.

100% agree. GT I mean, it's almost like hedonic adaptation. You look at the lives that most of us live, we're incredibly blessed. There's a roof over our head, there's food in the fridge, there's, there's running water. Most of the people in the world probably are struggling to access that. But when we go back and think about what we have and we're grateful for it, it just sets such a beautiful tone for the rest of the day. And even just being grateful for your health, for your family, this is a practice I do with my children. Practically every day is during our dinner time. We go around our table and we just talk about just one thing. You're grateful for the day, and we go down around three times. And then it just teaches them to just not get stuck into that hedonic adaptation and just almost take it for granted. It's just like what we have is incredibly special. So it's great to acknowledge that and connect with the heart as well and be fully appreciative of what you have. So 100% agree.

Which is so incredibly important is empathy. Because if you understand what you've been blessed with, that, to be honest, you know, I was born in this world as a white male. I didn't make that decision. But that's a benefit that I've had in my world. And in many ways it's what's made Me lucky. But there are people that have been born into this world without a roof over their head, without full mental capacity, without full physical capacity, with. Some people don't have a mother or a mother that they know or a father that they know or education or all these things. Things that, again, I'm guilty of taking for granted. But when you stop and you take that moment and you thank the universe for. Thank you for making me healthy and thank you for blessing me with these things and thank you for blessing me with these people. When you then later that day encounter somebody that doesn't have it, your heart goes out to them because you understand that they likely weren't responsible for those deficiencies, but their reality is different than mine or yours. And so you need to recognize that. I think that's really important.

Totally. And I mean, we've got the lucky lottery ticket. Being born in this time and in this environment that we're both in, so incredibly blessed. And I think to acknowledge it is extremely important and it sets the frame for the rest of the day. I think gratitude also invites more of that. So if you say, and my kids always ask me, what do I say I'm grateful for? I say, just talk about something that you want more of. So, you know, more family time or more, you know, more security and more. Sorry, say that again. Things you can't buy. Exactly, Exactly. And that's a great frame to come from. Come to gratitude from. Absolutely. So GT we jump around heaps in this podcast and I'll segue back onto the kombucha story because I think people really want to dig deep in that and understand it more. So you went from almost kind of brewing it at home for your family, for yourself, for your mom, and then how did that then transition to a commercial enterprise?

Well, it's a really interesting question that I'll answer. The stars virtually aligned, because what happened was, is you had. I was 15 years old. I was failing all my classes in high school. I was being bullied for being a young gay male in high school. So I had no friends, and I felt like an outcast, and I didn't have a purpose. And when kombucha came into the household, it clearly was something very special. And so I recognized that very early on. And then when I realized that people weren't able to access it in the form that I was able to, and in a way that I believed they should be able to, I became inspired. And so in many ways, I've said this before, that I don't think that I chose Kombucha. I think it chose me. And what it did is it gave me purpose. And this weird, tasting, smelling, looking thing called kombucha resonated with me because at the time I felt weird and I felt different and so together I felt we could be weird. And it gave me this bravery and this purpose that again, I never thought I was starting a business. I just thought that I was. I had been chosen for a mission and I was just following this mission. And so I definitely led with my heart. And being so young, I certainly approached business differently. I approached it from a very personal standpoint, almost to a flaw, where for the first couple years I would be reluctant or resistant to any kind of commercial growth or financial growth because I felt in many ways that would lead to me selling my soul or selling out because I had witnessed so many times, too often times, where companies had chosen, whether they knew it or not, had chosen profit over purpose. And so for the first five years I was, you know, call it a single parent really trying to white knuckle this beautiful thing called Kombucha. And then as I grew up, my brand grew up and my company grew up. And then I realized and embraced the fact that this is something that's special and I should do anything and everything in my power to make it available to anybody who wants it, regardless of where they live, how much they make and where they're at in their life and education, that I should present this to them in a way that they could understand. And that became my mission. And honestly, it hasn't changed until this day.

That's wonderful. It's so pleasing to see, to see someone stay true to the initial mission plan because it is extremely easy. I come from a corporate background in the food industry and I've seen it. I've worked for many multinational billion dollar enterprises and I've seen it time and time again. The chase for profits and the chase for trends and capitalizing on buzzwords. So I'm so pleased that you've stayed true to the cause. And I must say I did. I was in Canada a couple of months ago and I tried your product for the first time. It was amazing. It was so good. I loved it because being a longtime kombucha brewer and fermented food maker, I'm pretty, I'm pretty critical of the products that I taste. But I must admit it was very true to what Kombucha is supposed to taste like. Because we're seeing this in Australia at the moment where Kombucha has gone from almost in that hippie space to now mainstream. And you've gone from maybe a couple of producers to many, many producers. And you're starting to see the dilution of quite a beautiful product to something that's almost like a fizzy soft drink, really, because it's either they're shortcutting the processes or they're mislabeling the product, which is really annoying for me. I'm seeing that also in the kefir space, because just to give you a heads up, GT my story is all about the kefir and milk kefir, which is one of the key things that helped me get through my struggle with anxiety and depression. I'm seeing the same thing now happening in the kefir space, which I'm sure is also happening in the kombucha space in your neck of the woods because it's such a novel product. There's no labeling standards or. Or standardization of what kombucha or kefir actually is. So there's a lot of companies out there that use starter cultures. For instance, in kombucha making, you can put spores in now, like heat, label spores, and pasteurize the product. And they're still calling it kombucha. And there's the same thing happening with kefir where they're using yogurt cultures, which have nothing to do with kefia and then calling it kefia. So what's your feelings and thoughts on the actual integrity of kombucha or kefir or whatever it is? What's your stance on that?

Well, for me to fully articulate my stance, we would need, like two hours. I'll really disseminate it into something very digestible. So first and foremost, it's something that I. I'm very concerned about and I'm very passionate about because to your very good point, in this world, whether we know it or not, it is so common to take something that's special and unique and powerful, and as soon as it becomes mainstream or approaching mainstream status, that we somehow, some way think we have to dumb it down, we have to simplify it, we have to standardize it, which means you're doing things. You see it in milk, you see it in vegetables, you see it in fruit. Now, whether it's homogenization, pasteurization, filtering, concentrating, whatever. And this is all. And again, I'm saying this out of love, but the reality is it's all in the chase for more profit. Because when you make something like kombucha or a Kefir, or something that's delicate and handcrafted and like a fruit or vegetable, is not easily mass produced. You have to honor its qualities. Like I said earlier, kombucha is like a plant. I'm not making kombucha. Nature's making kombucha. I'm just a servant or a conduit for getting the ingredients and the vessel and the batch together. But after that, it's all in nature's hands. But in the commercial world, you know, us as humans, we always think that we're the ones creating things. And so what you're seeing is kind of what we've seen before. I mean, when I was a child, even in the very healthy household that I grew up in, yoplait, yogurt was my definition of yogurt. And it breaks my heart and it troubles my heart to think that currently we are on a path, no matter what country you live in, that kombucha may one day be like a yoplait yogurt where it has kombucha on the label. But what is it? Is it a New Age soda that somebody just artificially carbonated, threw in a vinegar or some kind of concentrate or some kind of probiotic and then called it a day? Well, that's not kombucha. Not to say that that product is not a good product. It's just not a kombucha product. So what I did recently, earlier this year, you mentioned earlier Hannah Crumb. So Hannah Crumb is the founder of Kombucha Brewers International, which is our trade association. And Hannah and I, in addition to being Scorpios, we have our love and our passion for kombucha that we have in common. And her and I, Hannah and I were talking and we said, listen, if we don't do something now, we will regret that we didn't do anything, because we are so close to being on our way to kombucha, losing its identity and losing what it stands for. So we are slowly trying to spearhead a standard of identity, which goes back to what I said earlier of an actual kombucha culture tea, a fermenting agent and actual fermentation, not just taking your scoby and dipping it in the tea and calling it a day. You need to have a transformation of ABC ingredients to XYZ ingredients, because that's the definition of fermentation. So that's first and foremost is how do you make the product. But candidly second, which is just as important, is what do you do with that afterwards. So, for instance, and I'm not saying that I know everything and my products the best, but when we make kombucha, we ferment it. And once we're done fermenting it, it goes straight into the bottle. We don't pasteurize it, we don't filter it, we don't do anything weird to it because we're trying to harness what nature has created, unfortunately, in the spirit or in the effort to make sure that these products are incredibly profitable and can be made almost anywhere. You're seeing these companies default to more shortcuts where they're taking a Kombucha something, maybe that's a concentrate or a flavor or even certain isolated qualities of a Scoby, and they're making something, and then they put kombucha on the label. When I was in Australia recently, a lot of the products that I saw, I said, I don't know if that's really kombucha. I feel for the consumer who hears about kombucha and thinks that it can change their life and their health and goes and buys that product, because you know what? They're going to be disappointed. And we've done research lately that says 90% of people that try a kombucha and don't like it, which can be they don't like the taste or they don't feel the effects of it, will not buy it ever again. So that means, as the old saying goes, you have one chance to make a first impression. And that's what I'm worried about, is for the last 25 years, I've worked very, very hard to make sure that people understand and appreciate what makes kombucha Kombucha. But I see that changing. And to be honest, it's scary. It's very scary.

It's so scary. And I'm glad you brought up the point as well of trying the Australian products. And the thing that's so disheartening for me is that the consumer is totally oblivious. I mean, they're not going to have the level of understanding in terms of what constitutes a real kombucha product or a real kefir product. They're pretty much going on the blogosphere and reading an article from Mind Bodygreen or whatever, PopSugar or whatever it is that kombucha or kefir or fermented foods are great for me. And I don't really have the time to make it at home. So I'm going to go down to the supermarket and grab a product, oh, yeah, this says it's kefir or this says it's kombucha. And if I have that product, I'm going to have all these amazing touted health benefits. But they're being totally misled because when it comes to the studies, and I can certainly speak for kefir because I've done a lot of research on it, most of the studies are actually based on the use of the actual Scoby's or the kefir grains. Now, when you take a real product, so people basing these articles on the benefits of kombucha or kefir are based on the real product, and then the consumer thinking they're going to get the health benefits based on these studies on the commercial products, that is absolutely misleading. Hannah did come down to Australia a few months ago and I did spend some time with her, with regulators. We sat down with people from the state government, the federal government as well, and spoke about. It was a roundtable discussion. And we did discuss in quite detail about all these misleading practices and having a standard of identity for kombucha. And the regulators from that meeting seem to be pretty open about it. And certainly the dilution of the product is a massive factor, because if you're trying to reduce the amount of alcohol or to meet regulatory requirements, I think it's important to actually define how much kombucha is actually in the product. What's your thoughts on that in terms of alcohol legislation and whatnot? Because it's very similar in Australia and the U.S. yeah.

Well, I mean, first of all, you bring up a good point with alcohol, right? Alcohol, like sugar, has been completely demonized and it has astigmatism for a lot of people, including the government. But we have to realize that nature creates alcohol in certain environments as a natural preservative to fight off bad bacteria. So, yes, in kombucha and authentic kefir and other fermented drinks and foods, there is a version of alcohol present, but it's not the same as alcohol in a wine or a beer or a spirit. And it's important to recognize that because, and I've said this before, kombucha is one of many beautiful fermented foods that our bodies need. It is not the singular only thing that we need. And I'm worried that these other beautiful fermented foods will never see the light of day until we as a society and as a world change how we think about things like alcohol. Because again, in defense of some of These companies that are taking maybe shortcuts, a lot of them are doing it because they want to completely stay away from any exposure of fermentation and alcohol and all a sudden of that. And so that's why, at least here in the US what we're trying to do is we're trying to open up the conversation and say, listen, let's not be so scared about alcohol, similar to the conversation about cannabis here in the States. Ten years ago, you were thrown in jail for having a. Now my grandma takes a gummy to help her sleep. It's changed. The consciousness has changed. And that's what I think. Kombucha is no exception. We need to change our consciousness. We need to stop and say, wait. The way we've been living up until recently has made us fat, has made us sick, and has made us diseased. Something needs to change. I guarantee you there's nothing, I mean nothing, about the alcohol content of traditional and authentic kombucha. That'll get you drunk, that'll get you buzzed, that'll get you intoxicated. And by the way, if somebody gets the bizarre idea to use kombucha to get intoxicated, I have news for you. Good luck in the bathroom, okay? That's what you'll experience. You won't get drunk because before you even get a taste of being intoxicated, you're going to have a cleansing experience. You're really wasting your time and your money. If you want to get alcohol, there's countless other opportunities for it.

Not in kombucha, I hear. Gc, that's absolutely spot on. We're pretty much up to time. If you wouldn't mind, I've got just a couple of quick questions and then we'll wrap up. Okay, so in terms of. So you are extremely. Thank you for summarizing the whole legislative landscape in terms of kombucha and what needs to hopefully happen in terms of regulatory direction. So hopefully if there's regulators listening. Gt makes some excellent points there on some of these regulatory matters. I must say, the other complicated thing GT is going to be the taxation element of it. So that's going to be a tough one to get through, but we'll leave that discussion. So I'm really interested to hear. So you were extremely early when it came to kombucha and identifying the health benefits and then so brilliantly bringing the product to market and making it accessible to everybody in a pure form. Now, is there any other products or innovations that you're seeing that could potentially be the kombucha in the next 10 years. My thoughts just very quickly to give you time to think is I think medicinal mushrooms are going to be certainly something I use. And I'm sipping on a glass of lion's main mushroom right here as we speak for cognitive benefits. But is there any other thing? So you mentioned cannabis medicinal mushrooms is one I'm really bullish on moving forward into the future and seeing all the great studies on reishi and chaga. And is there anything else that you would add in that mix?

Well, I don't know if you're teeing me up for something because the answer is absolutely, positively yes. And we've already made as a company and as a brand commitments to these emerging and even infantile or categories that are in their infancy. Because just like I said earlier, kombucha is one of many, many beautiful things that we can ingest to change our lives for the better. So starting off with the lead that I'll take from you. So medicinal mushrooms that have adaptogenic properties I think are incredibly, incredibly important. So. So we have a product right now called Alive, which is our adaptogenic tea. And we utilize a trio of medicinal mushrooms. We use reishi, chaga and turkey tail. And we take these fruit and body beautiful, wild harvested mushrooms that grow in the Northwest. And they're gigantic, like they're the size of your head. And we brew them for nine or more hours to pull out all their antioxidants. And so kind of like the cup that you're drinking right now, how it's dark like a cup of coffee, that's what the liquid that we extract through this brewing process of the medicinal mushrooms looks like after the 9 or 10th hour. And then we pair that with premium teas, whether that's guayusa, black tea, matcha, cascara, fill in the blank. And then we overlay some beautiful ingredients, whether that's vanilla, mint, turmeric, root beer, spices, you name it. And that is its own experience. And I tell people it's not adaptogenic or kombucha. It's adaptogenic and kombucha. Like, we want to create a menu of offerings that you could literally have each and every one every day and have each one helping you in a different way. So medicinal mushrooms, absolutely. The next would be. You're a fan of dairy kefir. I'm a fan of water kefir. Similar, different. Right. They both have these kefir grains. The dairy ones are different than the water ones. We naturally use the water ones and we culture them very similar to, like a kombucha. As you likely know, kefir is similar to kombucha, but where it's different, it actually has more probiotics than Kombucha. But what it doesn't have is it doesn't have the organic acids. And so it's a different experience. And again, it's a kombucha and water kefir, not an ore, because also it's a different fermentation. Water kefir is a lacto ferment and Kombucha is an acetobacter ferment. Both are different, but both are equally great. In addition to that, we have a fermented coconut water which is similar to a kefir, but you're utilizing some of the naturally occurring wild organisms within the raw coconut water and in the raw coconut meat. So we have a completely vegan, completely raw coconut yogurt called Coco yo that we literally bring in coconuts from Thailand, crack them open here in la, drain the water, ferment the water and scoop out the very, very thin meat and make yogurt out of it. So that's something that we are doing and we're very passionate about. You mentioned cannabis. I absolutely, positively think that whether it's CBD for cognitive health or THC and the other cannabinoids that have so many different benefits and purposes within our body that we are barely scratching the surface of on, I'm a big fan of cannabis. I think it honestly will hopefully reduce the consumption of alcohol as a recreational replacement for alcohol. And I think in many ways it's going to replace, and this is why it's controversial, a lot of pharmaceutical drugs, because I believe, and I think we all know this, that the pharmaceutical industry copies nature, but in a chemical way, in an artificial way. And they do that naturally because they want to patent things, they want to protect their intellectual property. But what happens is they create a synthetic offering when the natural version is much cheaper and much readily available. But they do that to kind of block you. So I think cannabis is incredible. So I could go on and on, but again, not to sound redundant, but I believe food is medicine. And the saying of patient, heal thyself. I think it's really important that we listen to our bodies. We find out what's good and make the good great and what's bad, address it through nature and food and using food as medicine.

Totally agree. And being someone that's come from the food industry for the past 20 years, I can tell you that Food is either the most powerful medicine or the most potent toxic product or poison. So 100% agree on all the elements that you mentioned, the cannabis, the medicinal mushrooms, water kefirs, Absolutely stunning. The only thing with water kefirs, I think we'll see improvements in future, but there isn't a lot of papers coming out on water kefir. I did see one recently that they did discover a new bifidobacteria in water kefir, which is a big deal because bifidobacteria, I think it's a very specific bifidobacteria found in water kefir grains. And bifidobacteria is extremely important for me, especially someone suffering from anxiety and depression for most of my life, because bifida bacteria produce tryptophan and tryptophan is one of these precursor molecules that actually then cascades onto serotonin, which is your feel good hormone, and then serotonin then cascades onto melatonin, which is your sleep hormone. So water kefir, I mean, not a lot of studies, but in our own community we have seen incredible testimonials on the benefits of water kefir for mood enhancements, psoriasis, ibs, digestive issues. Hopefully we'll see some studies coming out to actually provide some scientific rigor on that as well. So gcn, one thing I would add, and I'd love your thoughts on, is, is especially someone listening to this, suffering from mental health, which is a huge thing for me and huge area of interest. What's your thoughts on psilocybin mushrooms? Because it's definitely making some waves with what's happening in the FDA at the moment with the trials around post traumatic stress disorder. So what's your thoughts on psilocybin, if you do have any?

Well, I have lots of thoughts of psilocybin. So to put it simply, I am absolutely, positively in love with psilocybin. I'm a user, I've been using it. I used it when I was a child. It actually gave me my first kind of download or profound experience, which I'll share for another time. But focusing on more recent. First of all, moderation is key in anything in life. So psilocybin is a medicine and if you use it like a medicine where you, whether microdose or you use modest doses, at least initially, to get acclimated to it, that you understand that you also need to be in a controlled environment, preferably completely surrounded and immersed in nature. What psilocybin and things like Psilocybin can do is it really opens up your mind and starts opening up channels of communication between different sides of your brain. And I believe psilocybin makes you smarter. I think it makes you more empathetic. And the beauty of it, which I can't say about a lot of other drugs, is that for me, at least after I use psilocybin, I feel smarter afterwards. And I remember everything that I experienced during that journey, which in a lot of drugs, especially the more synthetic drugs like Molly and MDNA and fill in the blank, it's completely a superficial experience. It's a fleeting moment, number one. Number two, then you come down afterwards and you hate your life and you hate humanity, which is obviously not a good thing. But whenever I use psilocybin again, makes me more creative. It makes me more in tune with nature, makes me more in tune with my fellow human. There's nothing wrong with it. And honestly, I'll add to that one thing that's like psilocybin, but clearly is different, which I've done as well, is ayahuasca. Because ayahuasca is a plant medicine like psilocybin, it's probably even more medicinal. I call it almost spiritual surgery. But when the time is right and when a person is ready, you can have a life changing experience on something like ayahuasca. You know, a little fun fact is that when my mother was pregnant with me, she didn't know she was pregnant with me, and she took peyote and she was in the desert with her friends and they were doing peyote and naturally she threw up, which is common within the first, you know, hour of ingesting peyote. And that's when she actually felt me in her belly. So again, I'm telling that story because I think these plant medicines not only make us more in touch with the world around us, but they certainly make us more in touch with ourselves, which is the problem right now is that we are so disconnected with ourselves because we're so glued to our smartphone or our computer or whatever is buzzing or beeping around us. And that's why mental health is an issue.

Yeah, unaddressed issue, absolutely. We're seeing a chronic epidemic of mental health crises across the world. And hopefully some of these fermented foods, and certainly when the regulatory requirements improve in terms of access to things like psilocybin or some of these other therapies become available in a controlled setting with a practitioner, I think it's going to be world changing in terms of the. The mental health. Dealing with the mental health crises. But simple things is just putting the phone away, not getting addicted to it, having a meditation and yoga practice. These are some nice, easy ones to certainly improve the way you feel and improve anxiety and depression symptoms. Gt thank you so much. You've been incredibly generous with your time. I'm so humbled and so grateful. And how I'd like to wrap my podcast up is if there's one thing you could do for whether it's your mental health or gut health or health in general, because we've spoken about so many different elements today, what would that one thing be for someone to take.

Away if I was to do one thing for myself or just one thing.

In general, just for the audience, like one thing to make a huge impact on their health?

Honestly, I think if you pay attention to nature, I think she has all the answers more than anything I could say. So again, like we said earlier, if you can immerse yourself in a completely raw, unadulterated environment where nature is the focal point, I think all your questions, curiosity and problems will be resolved.

That's beautiful. It all comes back to nature. Nature has this supreme innate intelligence that we can all access. And I'm so glad you brought that up. Gt if someone's totally fascinated by what you have had to say today and they want to reach out and say hello, how do people find you?

Well, you can find me on social media. I'm on Instagram. It's very simple. It's GT Dave, all one word and the number three. You can always email us at the company. Our email is very simple. It's infodrinkgts, as in sam.com and if you want to connect with me, you just simply put 4gt in the subject line and my team will send it my way. And, you know, please be patient. I can't get to everybody as fast as I'd like, but I'm pretty good about getting back to people within a week or less.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Gt have a great day.

God bless you. Thank you.

Thank you.

We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Gut Health Gurus Podcast with GT Dave. All our. All the video versions of our podcasts are now available on YouTube at Gut Health Gurus. You can also connect with me personally, guthealthgurus on Instagram, on Facebook, and I'm proud to announce we have an amazing Facebook group, the Gut Health Gurus Support Group, with more than 12,000 members, all extremely zealous about gut health and fermented foods. My members are amazing. They are so supportive. They share encouragement, recipes, information. So guys, you can find that Facebook group by just searching gut health gurus on Facebook. And it's a private group, so you'll have to send us a request to join the group, but we'll approve you so you can get going. All the the show notes are available at www.podcast.nourishmen organics.com Guys, your support means.

The world to us.

So please share this message with your friends and family members and leave us a kind review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. Until next time.