From Funny Food Addict to Happy, Healthy Helper

Welcome to the Doctor's Pharmacy. I'm Dr. Mark Hyman and this is Doctor's Pharmacy. That's F-A-R-M-A-C-Y, a place for conversations that matter. And we're so glad to have a conversation today that I think will matter to most of you because we all struggle. I don't know anybody out there who's not struggling. I struggle, you struggle, we all struggle. And the question is how do we deal with those struggles and how do we get out of bad marriages? How do we lose the weight? that we can't lose. How do we get out of a job that we can't stand or a good job that is good but we don't like anymore and transform our lives? And we have a guest today who's gonna help us understand the inner dark side and the light side of transformation. Lisa Lampenelli who is here with us today and she is kind of an amazing lady. I met her recently, she has had an extraordinary career as a comedian. For 30 years, she has won all sorts of awards. She's been nominated for two Grammy Awards.

I know, is that crazy?

Grammys, that's like a big deal. That's like an Oscar. Right? And she has been described as the Queen of Mean. I call her the Don Rickles of the 21st century. She basically insults people for a living and was not very nice to people, but it was kind of funny and it kind of not so politically correct.

Never, never, never.

I was like, wow, you said some things, I saw you on YouTube, I'm like, yikes. No, that's not cool. But it was what you did and something happened to you that made you completely shift your life. And we're gonna get into that in a minute. But you made headlines in 2012 when you decided that you were not gonna be losing and gaining hundreds of pounds. I think you said you lost and gained 372 pounds.

Yes, exactly. By the way, that's 17 Sarah Jessica Parker, if you're keeping track.

17 Sarah Jessica Parker. With or without clothes or shoes, I don't know. But she lost 100 pounds using bariatric surgery, which many people think of as a failure, but I don't think so and I don't think of it that way. I think it's a doorway for people who sometimes need a radical shift to start everything else changing. So she is now quit comedy. So imagine being at the top of your career, imagine being Beyonce and going, you know what, I'm not gonna sing anymore. I'm gonna get into something else. I'm gonna help people transform their lives. I'm gonna be a life coach. I'm gonna tell my story about what wasn't working for me and what I think can help people transform and live happier, healthier lives. So she retired from comedy at the peak of her career. She announced on a David Stern, I mean, sorry, the Howard Stern Show in 2018 and has already been doing all kinds of stuff around this and she's got a new role as a life coach, a food and body image workshop leader, speaker and storyteller. She's quite a lady. So here we are with Lisa Lampugnelli. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Thank you, Dr. Mark.

So here we go. Now, you were riding these twin rockets. One was the rocket ship of success and comedy and career, which was amazing, but you had another rocket that was sort of going to the dark side of the moon, which was your personal journey around food and health and self-destructive behaviors and marriages that wasn't working and things that just you weren't loving in your life. And what was it that was like, oh my God, this is not something I want to endure anymore? Because most of us go through that in different ways, some more, some less. But you went through in a way that allowed you to really make a huge shift, which people are usually scared to death to do.

Right. What's funny is going from the Queen of Mean to the Queen of Meaning is a lot.

Oh, I like that.

It's literally a 180 degree shift. And I Got so lucky that I could get a message by my father getting ill about five years ago. I really got that message of like, wow, I am here for service and nothing else. We're all here for service. That's how I feel at least. And I'm like, wait a minute. I didn't enjoy... You mean mass on Sunday? Or like, I know. Well, sadly, I don't do that anymore.

You don't mean that kind of service.

No, thank God. But I mean, Really helping my dad through that whole process of passing over and the hospice, et cetera. I go, then when he passed away, I was like, wait a minute, I miss being of service to people so much that I was like, wait a minute, yeah, I'm making them laugh, it's fine, it pays well, but it's just not enough for me. So I said, pay attention to what is bringing me that pure joy that I used to have when I do open mics.

Stop there, stop there. You just said something profound, right? You said, Pay attention to what brings you pure joy. How many of us actually do that? I didn't for years because you know what? I remember.

And what would your life look like if you did? Oh my God. Now you're finding out.

Hopefully, yeah, that's what it feels like now.

It's like I look on my calendar and I go, oh my God, I'm not dreading anything on this list. And that's what life's about. Yes, we all have obligations. We all have stuff we have to do. Do I wanna go over and play cards with my mother every other day? Well, sometimes, but sometimes not. I love her, but sometimes it's a chore. But guess what? The joy that it's gonna bring me later to know I did the right thing is helpful. So joy has to come either to me short-term or long-term. But when my dad got sick and then I was like, wait, I wanna be of service to people. I'm like, yeah, I gotta phase this comedy out 'cause I don't have that joy anymore. And it's so joyful like helping people that I said, when I started comedy, you know how this is. I was like, if I had to do this the rest of my life for free, I wouldn't care. That's how I feel about what I'm doing now. I would rather help people, even if I don't make a red cent from it, who cares? Because I'm living life as I should. And it's just a thing that I was able to thank God, get my head around and do, and take those action steps to do it. Now, we were getting ready for this.

Podcast and you kept sending me texts and messages, I wanna go deep. Sure. We can cover anything.

Dude, anything I want.

We can do a deep dive. Nothing's off limits. Oh, hell no. I'm an open book, right? So what I want to ask you about is what was it like inside when you were riding the train of success or the rock show and you also were struggling internally with weight and body image issues and food addiction.

Right.

And all these things that, you know, we kind of hide.

Yeah.

How was that? What was your internal journey there?

Well, there's a lot of shame associated with weight. Now, unfortunately, I think people feel like if they can quote unquote control the issue, then they have a lot of shame. So I had shame that I couldn't handle, like I go, what is wrong with me? And then I thought, well, if Oprah, the most powerful woman in the world, still has weight issues, what hope does Pam from Accounting have? Like, why should I have such shame about this weight? And I said, let me, instead of having this dark hole inside that's open and I try to fill with food and purses and shoes and concert dates and fame. Why don't I start working on what's in there? So, I said to myself, for 50, I said, Whatever I've been trying to use to fill the hole ain't working. Marriages, all that. Let me take it out of the picture, get this bariatric surgery, but at the same exact time, start the emotional work that'll keep the weight off. And I've kept it off for almost seven years now.

And by the way, 50% of the time, bariatric surgery fails. Sure, sure. Because the surgery fails because People keep figuring ways around. I had a guy who was a doctor, a nephrologist, weighed 400 pounds. He lost almost 200 pounds after bariatric surgery. And then he figured out he could eat M&Ms all day long.

Yeah.

One by one by one, slowly, and he gained back all the 200.

Yeah. And you know what's wild? That's why surgery gets that bad reputation. And I say to myself, look, it does, it's a tool. It's never been the fix all. Like, I literally could gain all my weight back if I wanted to. Like, I mean shakes, chips, all that stuff goes down smooth. But what am I really helping? I'm not filling that emotional void. Last night, for instance, I had a feeling of loneliness. Now, I rarely have that because I have, thank God, the best friends, best family, and a great dog. Well, let me tell you something. For some reason, no one's home last night, meaning as I'm trying to call them. and I'm like, oh my God, I have no one. And I go, I'm gonna eat. And then I go, well, that's the behavior of somebody who isn't doing the emotional work. So I pulled back and I said, Look, you'll eat when you're physically hungry. Do I win that battle all the time? Hell no, like 20% of the time I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna nail something right now. But you know what? We're all flawed. We all gotta work on this. I'll be working on this till I'm.

80 and that's okay as long as I'm making those little steps. Yeah. So, when you were overweight and struggling, were you conscious of the stories you were telling yourself that led to you to keep eating?

That's interesting. I probably was deluding myself into going, you know what? I'm happy with myself this way. Or, oh yeah, I'm fat and proud. And you make fun of yourself as much as you make fun of the audience, which is why my comedy worked because I loved the audience but I goofed on both of us. So the fact is, once you start going, I really don't like what I see in the mirror because I got into a lot of people seem to go through this with this surgery. When you look in the mirror and you're overweight, I would go through the look in the mirror, hate what you see, get depressed, eat, look in the mirror again, hate yourself for eating. It just basically is one big cycle of depression. So, once I got the surgery, I go, Ooh, I gotta work on that. But yeah, I think I deluded myself into being like, well, this is as good as it gets. Just like with a job, like with me with comedy, I could have stuck with it. I said, Hey, 30 years in the business, I'm doing well, you make your money, you're okay, bad marriage, that's okay. He wasn't hitting me, I wasn't hitting him very often. And I was like, you, know what? I can stay in this, but do I want my life to have joy? And I think that's what the weight was really showing up as. this lack of joy. So thank goodness I suddenly got brave and decided to tackle them all.

But you didn't slide back, right? You got the surgery, you lost the pounds, which often happens. And then somehow something shifted in you that allowed you to stick with it.

Yeah.

Was it help? Was it some awakening you had? Was it just like white knuckling it? What happened? Oh, no.

I don't white knuckle it. I have a therapist, of course. I have a life coach. I mean, I basically call in all the freaking cavalry. I'm like, how do you handle emotional eating? I've read all the books.

You have all your nights at the round table.

Oh, yeah, because you know what? I'm worth it. I want to live, dude. I was listening to the radio today and this was a 97 year old Carol Channing dies. Now I'm 57. I say to myself, oh my God, if I take care of myself physically and emotionally, I could live 40 more years and continue to help people and help myself. And I'm like, oh my God, like it really helps to know I have life to look forward to. So I think that's what a lot of the emotional work for me is going, I'm looking forward to every day and living a long time versus, ah, I'm in a job that's okay. Like a lot of us, we have a low grade form of dissatisfaction that we put up with. We really shouldn't have to. It's sad to me.

Yeah, it's true. And you were in your career in a way being of service. You were making people laugh, which is something we don't do enough in our world. And it brings people joy and happiness, gives them a dopamine hit. It makes you feel a little better. It's not the worst thing in the world. It's not like you were making pesticides for Monsanto or something.

That's my next career. Well, you know what? I think it was to though, I think it was, my dad died on a Saturday, so I had to do a shift because comics usually work on Friday, Saturday. So I remember every Saturday I would be a little sad and I'd have to psych myself up. And I saw this great TED Talk or YouTube talk, some comic said about giving laughs instead of getting laughs. Because we as comics can be very self-centered. It's give me, give me, give me. I killed. Oh yeah, it's all about me. and I started to have to shift it to giving to the audience and that's when I started getting standing O's again. But then that didn't seem like it was fulfilling enough and I go, you, know what? I'm gonna step back from this. I'm gonna shift my life and I felt the only time that I was really making myself happy and them was to do something totally different like I'm doing now with the workshops and the coaching and stuff. It just is the fit that I was looking for.

-Okay. So, you're in this this transition, your father dies, you're waking up to the fact that you want to shift your life towards more joy, that you were helping your dad through the process of death and being of service, and that gave you, even though he was dying, it gave you a different experience of joy or happiness, which is kind of bizarre. But it actually is actually what happens when you're in service. In fact, being of service, altruism, is hardwired into us and it actually stimulates dopamine in the brain, just like heroin or cocaine or that donut.

Oh, well good. I'm glad I got the healthy way.

Yeah. And so, you know, you had this insight, but insight often doesn't translate into action or behavior.

Right.

What was the sort of moment where you were like, okay, I'm gonna do these things. I'm gonna get divorced. I'm gonna quit my job. I'm gonna get my body under control. I'm gonna do this new career. Like, was it a All of a sudden, boom it happened or was it this slow process?

I think it was sort of brewing inside for all those years, you know that my father was sick and then afterwards and I'm the type I was brought up by depression era parents. So, I said to myself, I'm not going to do this stupidly. I'm going to make sure I save enough money so that if I never make any more money, it's okay. Even if I live in a tiny studio the rest of my life, I don't care. So I said, look, do it the right way, have a target date set up for this, which I did. But I think it was the real turning point of actually taking the action was I took this workshop at Kripalu, which is a meditation place and yoga center in the Berkshires from a woman called Maria Siwa, and she's very, very into positive psychology, and she has this three-step plan for resilience. resilience. So it's accept reality as it is, take small actions to give you a happier life, and then seal it with gratitude. Because we all forget to seal it with gratitude for what is currently here. So I started doing that. I'm like, okay, what's the reality? Don't love comedy. Learn how to be a coach. See if I like the classes, see if it's something I'm good at. Follow that. So I had my little plan all set up. then I was like, okay, what action first? And I'd start doing these steps and then I'd practice gratitude too and it all sort of converged into where about a year and a half ago I go, oh my God, I totally am ready. But again, the resilience is that, hey, I'm gonna keep coming back and coming back and that's what makes me keep going. So, if I have a coaching session where I think I dropped the ball in this practice session, I'm in, if I do a workshop where I don't get through to somebody out of the 30 people, and I, you know, it stops me from beating myself up. So I think that resilience practice is huge. And I think that's what kind of made it all a reality for me.

So if you're, you know, talking to people, maybe there's 100 people, maybe there's a million people listening who are wanting to change their life and struggling and getting inspired from this conversation about how you shift it.

Right.

What would you tell them?

Well, this is a great question because the first thing everybody says is, well, it was easy for you because you have money. First of all, I'm not some kind of baller who's sitting on three, $38 million. I'm not, you know, one of those people. But we all have the means to do little steps. So it's not easy for me. I started in comedy when I was 30. Mark, I lived with my parents and hid it from everybody because I was like, oh, you know, I want you want to make it as a comic. So even if you have no money.

Or- In the basement with the Janis Joplin poster.

Worse than that, believe me. I looked at my childhood bedroom because I was like, I'm cool as hell, I'm gonna be a comic. So with this, I did one of these things where I go, okay, Lisa, you want to quit comedy? You have a few bucks in the bank, but it ain't gonna last forever. What's the worst that can happen? See, I'm the type, I ask what the worst is can happen, and then I do it anyway. 'Cause the worst ain't that bad. Mark, they all go to, I'm gonna be homeless. 90% of people I talk to, oh, I'm gonna be homeless. When the hell have you ever been homeless? I should call my next book, Hey, at least I can type. The fact is we all have a skill we can use. We all have a gift. We all can work at Starbucks. I mean, they have health insurance for God's sake. So I always say to people, stop thinking everybody else has it easy. Look at your reality. Write it down. then figure out little steps. Because don't you find with your patients too, little steps make you feel so much better. So, I'm taking little steps.

-Little wins, little wins.

-If I can do it, anyone can. Because I'm, you know, I am just feeling my way out too.

-Okay. So, you've gone through all this and you've started, you got trained in coaching, you were leading workshops.

-Yeah. I love that. Oh my God. To be in a group of people, and have them feel like they can work on themselves just makes me so happy. It's so cool.

So how do you use your story to work with them?

That's a great question too. What happened to you? You must have gotten married to a wonderful woman who brought it out of you.

I did. She's texting me as we speak. I ask all the right questions.

If I could attract a male Mia, I would be so happy. I have to settle for a dog. So the thing is, storytelling is a huge part of my workshops and I'll tell you why. I show I'm vulnerable to tell all the crap I've been through with food. I mean because you know we have a lot of shameful food behavior from the past. I tell them, Hey, I'm still working on me. I still had a little binge the other night. I still didn't feel good about myself yesterday when I looked in the mirror. I tell a lot of story throughout the weekend workshop so people know that they could tell theirs too. So, what I love, oh my God, I remember the first time because I'm very anal. I like to try out every step of workshop with friends and family before just to make sure it's good before I sell tickets to the public. I remember the first time I told the story, every person around the room just like emoted and was really open and vulnerable and told their story. And I'm like, wow, that story helps promote openness and vulnerability. And that's people just want to feel safe. If I tell you my story, you feel safe to tell yours. And if you don't, that's okay. So all I can do is be an open book. That's why I said to you, Hey, ask me anything you want. I'm the most open book in the world because I always tell my publicist, she has the easiest job because I've told her everything. She'll never find naked pictures of me on the internet, thank God.

Amazing. So what are the things that have emerged from people doing your workshops? Have you seen people shift? Have there been changes?

You know, some are a slow boil. You know, they'll sit there. and they'll go, wow, I feel a little better. And we give them an exit plan, as you know, afterwards, to maybe start a Facebook group together to have like sort of a life map for like the next year or whatever. A lot of them, it takes them a long time to get to the actual action, but it's brewing up there just like it did for me. So I have a friend who she took my workshop and took no action for about six months. Then she emails me that she just went to hypnotist and she's gone down six sizes in three months. And that's, she says it all started when she took the workshop. I didn't tell her to get hypnosis. She had to find that out for herself as a tool. But you can lead them to be more self-accepting, more open to these different messages and modalities. and you go, Hey, this is great. So, so far I haven't had any complaints. I make them fill out feedback forms. I said, you,'re not going to hurt my feelings. I'm new at this. So, you know, I just hope that it keeps kind of getting better and better.

Yeah, you know, there's an amazing sociobiologist, a scientist at Harvard, E.O. Wilson, who's written many books and is one of the leading scientists in the world. And he said, the world This is really interpreted through story and that's what creates meaning in life. And I think that we really all need to have story in order to make sense of our experience. And your story and the stories you tell and the storytelling is really how we understand the world.

That's a good point. Now that I don't do stand-up anymore, I do do these storytelling nights. where me and a bunch of people, actors, comics, different people who have weight or food issues in their past or present, and we tell stories and they're really funny, but they also are heartfelt. And I just, after those shows, I notice there's a real sort of shift in the question and answer session where it's like people want to go way deeper. They don't want to keep it surfacy anymore. I'm like, oh, so they benefited from story. And also, You know how that the coaching class I'm taking, you really work on dissolving people's limited thoughts and the stories they tell themselves about themselves. So last night, for instance, with this eating thing, with the loneliness.

What was the whole narrative going on?

It was wild because really, I mean.

The work is in there for a minute.

The work is dissolving those thoughts. I had a day where I just wanted to talk to my best friend. I have the same best friend for 32 years. I call her up, she's disabled. So I, no, we talk on the phone a lot instead of get together in person. She's not around. And it's almost like a life partner in a way where you're like, why aren't they around?

Yeah, right.

So I go, oh, I have no friends. Like literally that thought comes in, I have no friends. Now, if you logically look in my phone, you're gonna go, oh my God, you have at least five people who are that deeply invested in the friendship as you are. However, the thought is, I have no friends, then it's the feeling is sadness, loneliness, et cetera, then the behavior is could have been eating.

Could have been that sheet cake.

Hell yeah, the M&Ms one after another. So instead, I take the story, like the tools we learned in coaching, is to really try to dissolve it and to say, is that true? Do I have no friends? Well, it certainly feels that way now. Yes, it's true. Is it absolutely true? Like Byron Katie says, no, because we don't know what's absolutely true. Nothing is absolute. And then it's sort of going, how would I act, behave, and feel if I never had that thought? I wouldn't go to the food. I wouldn't be sad. So it's getting distance from the story. So the crap that we tell ourselves, we can self-coach a lot. You know, I'm not trying to talk myself out of getting clients. But let me tell you something. A lot of this self-coaching really helps people because I have to every day go, oh, that thought's coming up and then get some distance from it.

So, that's a very interesting thing because most of us thought and behavior have no space in between.

The pause, the big pause has to happen.

We have the thought, we identify the thought, we act based on the thought and that determines our reality.

Yeah.

What you're saying is you figured out a way to create a pause between thought and behavior. I'm lonely, I have no friends, I might as well get fat again because nobody cares about me and I'm sitting here by myself and just my dog and life's terrible. -Yeah, well I think, you know... -And.

Then you go down this rabbit hole. -Yeah, so I'm trying to integrate that for me and like Byron Katie's work about that just is, I mean, At first, I was like, I read Byron Katie's book years ago.

Back up. Who's Byron Katie?

Oh, and what is she teaching? Why is she the most authority on something called the Work? This work she created. And Martha Beck, who I'm taking my coaching certification class with, promotes using that as a tool with yourself and with your clients. It's basically deconstructing that story to where you go, it's just not true and.

Having some distance from it. So, it's asking yourself a series of Yeah. About your beliefs and your thoughts.

Yeah, like for instance, do you have a limiting belief, Mark? Does a limiting belief ever come up for you? Are you that perfect that you don't?

Yeah, of course.

Okay, like what would be something that would weirdly just pop into your mind at a moment of stress?

That's an interesting question. I think it's interesting because my mother brainwashed me to believe that I have no limits.

Okay, so...

Which is actually the opposite problem, which has allowed me to drive myself into the ground, to harm myself in different ways than we're eating, but it's not that different.

Sure.

And I think...

So even if you take that limiting thought that keeps you stuck in this, Byron Katie says what you should do is you go, I have no limits. Is that true?

No, hell no.

Okay, so say you were the one.

Who... And I can only eat like 12 cookies at a time.

Oh, I love that limit. I love that. Now, and she would then say, you know, do you work around that knowing that's not true and how, what you would be like if you didn't think that was true, which probably would be say no more. feel like you don't have to heal the whole world. You don't? Yeah, I know. Weird, right?

Like, I don't know.

This podcast is over then. See, I turned down a client today because I don't want to be that person who thinks they have to save the world because I have limited resources. I mean, I'm just learning this. Plus it was, like, about addiction, and I'm like, I don't know anything about that. Call Dr. Drew, you know? So I just go, isn't it funny.

That this Byron Katie developed this thing.

That we can get some distance and go, I'm telling myself that story.

So is that true? And what are the next questions she has?

Well, you already said no. So you know it's not true. So you know how to act as a person who knows it's not true. So what would you do differently?

I would say no more.

There you go.

I would feel like I had to work on the challenging thoughts that make me feel like I have to do everything for everybody all the time.

Wow. That's a heavy burden.

Yeah. not even true, but it's like...

Right, but it feels true in the moment. That's what's great about the fact that you're an adult now and you don't have to stay in that. And she says you just basically look at it. And even if you say, you ever do this, even if you could go, huh, oh, I'm going into my Mark Saves the World thing again. Then it's a distant thought. It's like, oh, that's not really me. The real Mark, or the real Lisa, is, oh, I can help some some people.

Yeah.

Wow. This is great opposed to if I don't help them, they're all going to kill themselves and everybody's going to die. I'm the savior of the world. Because, you know, that's what every surgeon has that problem. Yeah. And that's why they're all dicks. Because they all freaking no offense, surgeons, you know, I love you out there, especially my bariatric surgeon, by the way. And that's why our ego gets involved. You know, I. Oh, my God, Mark, I work on my freaking ego every day because I'm like, Oh my God, do I have enough Instagram followers? Do I have enough Twitter followers? Because you want to make this happen.

How many comments did I get? How many likes did I get?

I can't even read those things. And you want to know what's interesting? Do you find this, when you forget about something, the right things happen? So basically, like, I completely forget that we pitched, my publicist pitched me to be on Dr. Oz about six months ago about this new life of mine. I forgot about it because they didn't have time. Yesterday out of nowhere. Oh yeah, Dr. Oz, they wanted to put you on next week. Oh my God. So isn't it funny when we forget about it and we let it go? So don't you find that's important letting things go too?

Yeah, absolutely.

I love that.

So you're in the struggle, you're working with these thoughts last night.

Yeah.

Breaking through where you have this process, you have a process Mm-. And these are things that people can learn, right? They are things that people can incorporate into your life. And it's not rocket science. It's just a method. And there are different methods. There's, you know, the work.

Sure. It's a billion things. ACT, I don't know what it stands for, but it works.

So for you, you work through that process that Byron Katie did, and it helps you to sort of not go and grab that sheet cake.

Yeah. Yeah, because honestly, it's those behavior, those thought driven behaviors that have not served me and continue not to. Again, I fail a lot. But that's okay.

I'm 37. Yeah, it's not too late to start.

God, no.

Right?

Like I said, I got 40 years left.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks. That's just baloney.

Oh yeah. No one's ever too old to get out of something they don't like. And yes, again, and this is the one I don't like either. They go, well, I want to be a singer or this or that or the other. But my job, I can't do it. Don't you think sometimes you could shift? Say you're stuck in a job. This is a reality for a lot of people. You have to stay. There's a way to bring an element of service into that job or the feeling you get from another job into that one.

Yeah. It's very hard for people to feel like they have the ability to control their life and their destiny. I think it's really tough to own that. And, you know, scientific research is really clear about this. When you look, for example, at your socioeconomic status and your risk of disease, it's more of a risk than obesity or smoking or a lot of exercising. And the defining aspect of that is powerlessness. Is the idea that you don't have control over your destiny, over your life, that you're stuck in this and you're stuck in that, a bad marriage, a bad job. And it's very tough to break through that. What would you tell people who are saying, I just can't. I'm stuck in this life. I can't get out of it. I can't change it.

I never thought I would say this because I always made fun of this stuff. But gratitude is the biggest freaking healer in the world. First of all, I was at a seminar a couple weeks ago and she said, Compassion and gratitude are your abracadabras, which is so, I love that saying because you have to have compassion for yourself. Yes, I have to look at myself with some empathy and compassion that I feel stuck and I'm not gonna beat myself up about feeling like that. Yes, because if you can't be self-compassionate, You can't be compassion for the guy who you think is screwing you up at work. And gratitude, I know it's super, like I used to make fun of gratitude so much because I'd be like, oh, I have to get my little gratitude journal and write three things I'm grateful for.

Guess what?

It's a good comedy skill. I know, I actually used to make fun of gratitude a lot. And I go, wait a minute, but it works. And it really does. Oh, I'm so sorry, I'm banging on the desk. See, now I'm grateful that you pointed that out in a sweet and loving way.

I just wanted to hold your hand.

I know everybody does, Mark. But here's the fact. If we can go, thank God I have a job to go to. Oh my God, I feel stuck. But you know what? There's one thing I'm happy I have eyesight. Or just some of the stuff we take so for granted. And again, it's not easy. That's the whole thing. Don't think I'm telling you it's easy. It's freaking hard. But you want to change your life. Unfortunately, that's a step that has to happen. -Yeah, it's true.

What you're speaking about is not only what you're doing but how you're doing it and your internal experience.

-Yeah.

-People can have all sorts of jobs but you know, everybody's experiences where you go somewhere and people, somebody's in some menial job and they're just happy. -Yes. -They make your life better. I mean, we went to the airport once and we this guy who we went like business class and it was overseas and we had this guy come up to us who was supposed to kind of escort us through the process.

Oh, I love that.

And you know, you could see a grumpy person who's trying to help you through navigate through an airport which is stressful, crazy. This guy was loving on everybody on every TSH agent on every person you saw, loving on us, making fun, making us laugh, Just having the best time.

Right.

And like he had a job that you could construe as kind of a menial job that didn't have meaning and he brought the meaning to the job.

Wow, that's a great way to put it because we all, it's an inside job. The external job doesn't really matter. I mean, I have a friend who she's physically disabled, as I said, so all she can do physically is volunteer one day a week. She brings so much joy to those people that one day a week that she tells them how to do arts and crafts that she has more meaning in her life, they have more in their life. She could look at herself and go, oh my God, I don't even work. I'm a loser. I have no job. And I'm like, dude, you're doing more for them than a lot of people do. You know, I'll be the one who goes into a Starbucks and I'm like, wow, that person's in a great mood. He gave me coffee. What are they doing? And it's cool to take time to ask them like, oh my God, you're in such a great mood and See how they did that shift. Some people, look, there's a lot of us who have a low grade depression no matter what. We just were born a little off. I was totally born a little off. Oh my god, a little Lexapro goes a long way for me. But the fact is, once you get that stuff straight, it's up to us to fix what we're bringing to the table. I could be miserable earning $8 million a year from comedy. I could also be happy.

A lot of people would love to try to do that.

Yes, I could also be happy working in a bookstore for $3 an hour. So basically, okay, how do you merge those two things where you can bring that joy and get that happiness out of something that you may not want to be stuck in, quote unquote.

And then of course, there's risk, right? There's a lot of risk because you could fail at this.

Sure.

You could end up not homeless, but in a studio apartment.

Yep.

In some slum somewhere.

And you know what you say or what I say to myself for that and what I've said to a few practice clients, I've been like, you know, that whole saying, it doesn't happen to you, it happens for you. Okay, then what lesson was I supposed to learn? Not that I have, I shouldn't have taken a risk. It's, oh, I had to learn that humility. I had to learn how to be more humble, how to live smaller. I had to learn that possessions don't count, that I don't need the big house. Mark, if I end up living with my mother at 90 years old.

-In your childhood bedroom.

-You know what? That may be what I need to learn the lesson for life. So all these tools that I thank God have been learning for years from these different workshop leaders and then the coaching school and stuff, I go, Wow, I could apply them to my life. Because a whole big part of it is she says, Live it to give it. You gotta live them if you're gonna ask somebody else to.

Okay, now you just started on this. Right. You started your journey with your bariatric surgery in 2011, right?

I think, yeah, like seven years ago, yeah.

And so you've gone through that. But you were still doing comedy and doing your normal life. You just were sort of working it, moving slowly through it.

Yes.

Getting a husbandectomy.

Yes.

Doing those kinds of things. Now you sort of embarked on this new life. You announced on Howard Stern, really literally a few months ago, not even a year.

Yeah, yeah.

What terrifies you now about this?

Relationships. Male-female relationships. I literally, okay, I'm writing my book proposal because I have one other people's relationships. No, no, no. I am inspired when I see a great relationship. Like you guys are like the cutest couple ever. People, you'll never get a chance to hang out with them because you're not famous like me. But, no, I love good couples. However, I'm writing my book proposal for my second book, and I have to do something that I'm scared of in one of the chapters. And I said, the only thing that scares me right now is one-on-one intimacy. And I don't mean sex. I mean that real intimacy of sharing. And that's the only thing I've been consistently, quote unquote, a failure at in my life, is that I don't even know what that looks like for me. So I go, wow, I'm gonna have to challenge myself and do this damn thing.

Are we having an intimate conversation now?

I guess, but I don't have to worry about you seeing me naked, even though I know that's what you're thinking. Yeah, they all do! your cameraman's going insane for me! No, but you see what I mean? That scares me. And I go, Lisa, you're gonna do the work. 'Cause here's the problem though. Here, this is where I'll ask your advice, 'cause you're the genius. I didn't go to no Cornell and Harvard. and all this stuff, Cleveland guy.

Where'd you go?

Cornell. Oh, yeah, I love Cornell. My first boyfriend went to Cornell, engineering student. Anyway, here's the deal. I don't care about sex because I'm going through menopause.

I don't care about- Listen, I have.

Patients who are 80 who are still happily- I know, it's- To me, it's so disgusting. But that's me. That's just me. Well, what do you say to somebody who feels nothing's missing in their life but knows a little part of it is the fear of getting into something. In other words, say I didn't have my dog yet and a little part of that was I'm scared I'll lose him and if I have a dog, God forbid he'll die. What would you say to somebody like me who's going, I don't miss having a partner. I don't really want one. But part of me knows it's fear-based. Would you say move forward little steps? Like how would you do that?

What is the fear about? Is it about being seen? Is it about revealing something about yourself that somebody doesn't like?

All the above. That I don't know how to do it.

That they don't actually know how?

I think I always dated, even though I'm very good friends with my ex-husband, I went to his wedding, to his new wife, you know, we were very good friends. I always dated the junk food of men, just like I was attracted to junk food in life for food. I was attracted to guys who didn't really fill me. The Halo top of guys, I call it. So these guys look pretty on the outside, but basically are just air. So I never had someone who's an equal. I never had a spiritual equal. But that's me going, -oh, then they're gonna see through the smoke and mirrors.

That is Lisa.

So me talking, I did a comedy show once with a whole group of comics for 20,000 people. Doesn't even worry me. I'm like, Big deal. If you told me tomorrow you have to speak to 20,000 people in a speech, I'd be like, no problem, dude. You tell me I gotta sit one-on-one with a guy, look in his eyes, I would totally be freaking out. So that's what I'm scared of. But again, that's like the journey.

Yeah.

I gotta, not all of us are there yet.

So what's the thought?

Ooh, look at you learning from me.

What is the thought? The thought is, What is the belief behind the thought?

I'm not enough.

Is that true?

It feels true, but if you ask me if it's absolutely true, if we're doing that Byron Katie thing, no, it's definitely not true. I'm definitely right for someone and someone's right for me. So how would I act and how would my thoughts be? I would go, stay open, don't run away. Don't skeeve it. Don't be like, Ugh. Be open, nice, talk to people and see what happens.

I mean, you don't have to get in bed with everybody, but you can practice, right?

Practice what?

Intimacy.

Oh, just talking and stuff?

Yeah.

Oh, okay. I'll try. Listen, I'll come back on the podcast in a year. We'll see if I open my eyes. You know what I mean? But isn't it interesting we're all still working on stuff?

Absolutely. It's so important and it's those things that actually are the juicy parts of life where growth happens, right?

Yeah. The scariest parts. Because of course I wanted to not quit comedy at first because that was my identity. Of course I wanted to not, you know, downsize and not sell all my shoes and bags and purses because they had so much meaning. But if I didn't take those steps, I wouldn't be doing this now and have joy. So maybe, you know what? I heard the most beautiful story once. It was in a novel, I think, and it was in the 70s and a little old lady, it was written on an African-American man wrote it. And he said he was on the bus one day and he felt this thing on his head. And this old woman, like nine years old, was touching his afro. And he goes, are you okay? And she goes, if I, oh, I love this. he goes, if I had never, she goes, if I had never felt it, I wouldn't know how soft it was. And I was like, oh my God, 'cause I have never felt it, so I don't know how soft it is. And I never did it with children because of the fear of, oh my God, I'll screw them up. Someday I gotta do it with a dude. So who knows, maybe when I'm 70, maybe when I'm 60, who knows, Mark Hyman, you change lives.

I don't know. It's interesting. You say that comedy was your way of connecting to people.

Oh, yes.

And now you want to do what makes you feel more connected to people and have them be connected to you. But it's people, not person.

Exactly. Like I always would joke and say, I'm a gift to the world. Why should I tie myself down to one person? If he's sucking my attention dry, what am I gonna do? How am I not be out there for you guys. But we all know there's successful people like yourself who are able to open up emotionally one on one. So there else we'd never see a married guy or woman make strides in their life. So it's a basic cop out. So that's the one I really gotta go, oh, you can have both. Like I see my brother and his wife. Oh my God, they met in college. They're like the cutest still. They have six kids by choice. And I'm like, okay, that's a cute couple. I see my brother-in-law and my sister. I'm like, oh, they're so cute. The more you see examples, the more you know there's hope. At least for me, I do.

So this is like you sort of conquered the part around career. You conquered the part around body, although it's a dynamic work in progress. And you really value connecting and being connected. and now there's this other frontier for you.

Yeah. Yeah.

Something that is really possible to shift.

Yeah.

And it seems like the way I hear you in the subtext of what you're saying is that you're thinking about, oh, I need to find the guy who's not the junk food. I need the health food guy.

Well, here's the problem though. I don't think I need to find anyone. That's my problem, is There's no driving force.

Well, you don't believe that that kind of exists in a way.

Right, I'm sure I don't.

And so that's why you're not looking for it. But maybe the answer isn't that. Maybe the answer is how do you become the person that is able to do that?

Yeah, it's all within you.

And you can practice. I would encourage you to practice.

You, how? Would I go on a celebrity dating app?

I don't know. and make it a practice to get intimate with strangers.

Oh, that's cool.

You know?

Yeah.

Like dig deep, go in, ask hard questions, opening questions, listen, like just practice where there's like less risk.

Yes.

And see what happens.

Yeah.

Everybody loves that. You know, I went out to dinner with a group of friends. We've known each other for a long time last night. And, you know, we can talk about all our work, what we're doing in our life and our relationships. and this and that, achievements, blah, blah, blah. But what we did instead was we went deep. We went around the table and really went deep and each person got to share what was meaningful for them or what was up for them, things that really they were caring about in this moment in a way that was beautiful and intimate and brought up their fears and their anxieties and their struggles. And it was in a safe place. That was such a satisfying dinner conversation rather than all of us bragging about our careers and our this and that. And it's like, you know, one guy's kid was getting bullied at school, another one had started a big business and was kind of overwhelmed. Another one was, you know, his mother just died and was just struggling with what that meant and how to live his life.

See, I love that vulnerability with friends. I always say I don't ever have small talk. Like I always like to go, like me and my friends Always go deep. And even on game nights, I have game night like once every 10 days. So my mom has like, she loves games and stuff. So all my friends come over and after she leaves, we have like these big talks and I go, I don't have time for tennis friends. I just like deep friends. But if it's a guy that's cute and it has a potential for romance, that's what freaks me out. So again, what's great is going, well, I don't have my food thing 100% solved. but I can still go in there and work on it. I could say the same with this. I could say, oh, just because he's a guy doesn't mean I can't say, hey, man, how you doing? You know, and actually say, what's up? Or whatever. But you would laugh if you saw me with guys, too, because this is me. Like, if a guy's even looks like he might be even in the least bit straight, I'll be like, hey, man, what's up? Like, I turn instantly into a trucker. I put up every. What do you think? The blue hair is wall. That is the wall.

The border wall.

Yeah. And once they can get through that wall, they get to LL.

Wow.

But it's cool. I think it's great because I don't ever. I don't know.

There's no. There's no immigration on this side of the wall.

Oh, no. Hell no. But what's funny is, like, I never am attracted to people who are supposed experts in spirituality and self-help and stuff who are 100% fixed, because I don't think that's possible.

So I'm kind of. A lot of gurus who've fallen pretty hard.

Yeah. So I think, you know, me telling this to you, me knowing this about myself, I go, that's cool. Then people know they can be vulnerable too. They can come to a workshop and go, yeah, she has trouble changing, so do I. You know, I like that.

It's so powerful. So what do you do around food now? So there's so many, I mean, listen, 70% of us are overweight in this country, 40% obese. There's so much struggle around weight and food. And not to say you've mastered it, but you have a dynamic relationship with it that has allowed you to be more free around it. And so what is a typical day like for you around food? What's your relationship with food now after the bariatric surgery? What does your diet look like?

Well, it's funny because right after the surgery, I allowed myself, my surgeon said to me, he goes, Lisa, Come on, you've been denying yourself so many years. You know you're just gonna eat what you're not supposed to. I know this. He goes, But, you know, give that a time limit. So I found that after the surgery, he's telling you that. Well, he goes, I know what you're gonna do. He goes, People do this. He goes, except the reality as it is. He goes, you,'re gonna throw up if you do that. Right. Well, he goes, you know, you're supposed to eat 70% protein. I'm like, Yep. So for the first year or so, I was like, oh, I'm just kind of having eating fun and eating appetizers and doing this, but tiny little amounts because you can only eat six very small meals a day. You can eat very small volume with this surgery because it was the gastric sleeve which makes your stomach literally the size of a banana at the most, a tiny banana.

Like one of those Central American bananas.

Yes, those little things. So, I eat very little. So, after about a year of all the weight coming off, I said, you know what? Notice in your body what you're feeling tired, you have no energy. So I went to a functional medicine doctor in Connecticut and we figured out this plan where I eat so much protein, also, you know, good grains. But because of the small stomach, I can't eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables because that fills me up and I don't have enough energy from protein. So I have to drink the shakes and the protein, you know, protein powders and this and that.

And blend the vegetables.

Oh, yeah. That's exactly what I do. I mean, I love it. I thought when she said smoothie, I was like, oh my God, could you kill me? It's so freaking delicious. And I never, again, something I never thought I'd like. So for me now, it's pretty much eating six small meals a day, mostly protein, blended vegetables, things that really make me have energy, which has changed everything because all my levels, I get them checked every year. They're perfect, thank God. and it's just me integrating what I kind of know what my body needs. But hey, do I fail? Like I said.

-Like, do you have anything bad in your house?

-No, I have dark chocolate which isn't bad. I don't drink, I've never drank. I just don't like booze. You know, occasionally like after Christmas, I'll have stuff hanging around. And I go, hey, 20% of the time I do 80-20. I'm never gonna be perfect. If I have a piece of cake, I always say if I go to a to a party for somebody's birthday and I don't have a piece of cake, there's something mentally wrong with me. Like, I, what is wrong with this person? So, I have to treat myself. Nobody could feel like they have to be perfect around food because it's just to say I'm never having a bagel again is a impossibility. So, yeah. And again, it's that self-compassion of going, this week was it 80-20? Eh, it was more 30-70. Okay, forgive yourself and make next we better. So that's what my food's kind of like.

So you were lonely last night. What was there around that you were gonna go eat?

I was gonna have, 'cause I do have some chocolate covered pretzels, but there I know, which is the best thing ever. And again, I go, wait a minute.

For gaining weight.

Yeah, yeah, of course. And I was like, okay, that would not make me feel good. I'll be mad at myself 'cause you know, like they say in AA, if you drink over a problem, then you have two problems. I go, if I eat over the problem, then I have two problems. I won last night. I might not win tonight. I just think us having an all or nothing attitude is not going to work. So today, last night I won, we'll see what happens today. I'll email you and let you know.

So for all those people out there listening and want to shift their lives, and you could give them a superpower, you were the master of the universe.

Right, right.

You can bestow What would you do for them? What would you do?

Stop operating out of fear. Stop letting yourself stay stuck out of fear. You're not gonna be homeless. There's maybe a few of you who deserve to be, but you're not gonna be. Stop. Try to lead with joy and love. And guess what? If you're stuck, there are ways out of it. There's ways to go to yourself. okay, I got to do this now, but what can I shift inside me that makes me have a better eye towards the future? I think, oh man, if we could do things out of fear less, we'd be so much better off, don't you think?

Absolutely. You know, I think always choose love, not fear.

Right.

I had dinner with this friend of mine who always seems happy and grounded and calm and life is great and I'm looking looking at him like, what's your deal? He said, well, I decided that I could choose in every situation love or fear. And if I choose love, life's way better. And I think that's an important thing to think about. Every time you have to make a decision, am I choosing love or fear? Fear of being lonely, I'm going to eat that chocolate pretzel, fear of whatever, you're going to do something that's going to hurt yourself. Love, well, that's a different thing, right? And then you get to actually have the experience of self-love or loving others. And you know what the big thing.

Too is, you ever notice, don't catastrophize. Like we all catastrophize. I'm working with this kid. I freaking love him. He's 20 years old. He wants to get out of Connecticut and be a TV guy in New York City or LA. I'll never get out of Connecticut. I'll never get out of Connecticut. I go, look, Just take this assignment this week. Write down reality as it is. Find out how much it's gonna cost to move, how much it's gonna cost to live there. And just, that's all I wanna know next week. I go, But you really research this.

Don't be like catastrophic.

It's a cashmere curtain over Connecticut. You can't get through it. Yeah, you can't. It's very debilitating. This kid goes, oh my God, I put the numbers down and I could totally save to move in a year. I go, oh, so he had catastrophized. He'd never get out. we forget to just really write it down on paper. For those people too who are anal and need to write that down as a plan, that serves us really well. Me meeting with my business manager and saying, this is the greatest sentence I've ever had told to me. My business manager said, I said, Can I afford to stay in my house for the rest of my life? He said, oh yeah, if you only live 15 more years. So the fact is you accept reality and go, I move forward knowing that.

Yeah. When you're 75, you'll find a perfect doctor. Yeah.

Come on, man. All right.

Well, Lisa, thank you so much for being on the Doctor's Pharmacy.

People can find out more about you at lisalampinenelli.com. all my workshop schedules there. My, you can email me about coaching and my performance schedule for my storytelling nights.

And you've got some great stuff going on. You've got this great Workshop that you lead called love your feed your soul from starving and stuffed to fulfilled and enough. And it's happening in Hampton, Connecticut, New York and Washington, DC. Check it out. It's happening soon. And also another one called When It's Time to Change: Moving Past Fear and Stepping Into youo, which is also happening pretty soon in Guilford, Connecticut, Poughkeepsie, New York. Check out her site. There's some storytelling shows which are very funny. Fat chance and even a conversation with and story with Lisa Lampinelli. So she's still out there doing her thing, making people laugh and grow and heal. And it's such an inspiring story. I hope everybody listening will take a quick look at their lives and go, what isn't working? When am I choosing fear and not love? What can I do differently and be inspired by what you've had to share? So thank you for being on the Dr. Oz show.

Thank you. This has been a huge honor and people. We're all struggling, so let's do it together.

Absolutely. So you've been listening to the Doctor's Pharmacy. This is Dr. Mark Hyman. This is a place for conversations that matter. I think today's conversation did matter. It mattered to me. And if you love this podcast, please share with your friends and family on social media. Please leave a review. We'd love to hear what you think. And stay tuned, and we'll see you next week on the Doctor's Pharmacy.