USE THESE 4 Tricks to Reduce STRESS, ANXIETY & DEPRESSION! | Wim Hof & Mark Hyman

We are very able within 20 minutes to feel a different condition of the mind. Just do this breathing. First take a cold shower and a cold shower does wonders, miracles.

So you talk about cold being your only master, your only teacher. Why is cold so healing?

I call this because it shuts up. It's not complicated. You just have to adapt. Learning about the mind is learning how to let go of your fear, anxiety, too much thinking, overthinking, complicated being. No, in the cold you learn to let go so the body is able to respond, to adapt. And then you get into the adaptive mode of the immune system. You get into the adaptive power of the body. and you learn about it. And with that, because when you go into the cold and you learn to do that on regular basis, then the neurology changes and you get neurological pathways to the adaptive power of your own body, the way nature equips you with. Very logical. And then bacteria and virus and anxiety, mood regulation, All those things, Chase, they happen naturally.

Yeah.

Because that's the way we are built. We are built to be not in anxiety because we have to judge and to be alert. We have a system for that inside. So depression, bipolar and all those things, we are doing the studies now with San Francisco and Michigan on bipolar and depression to show that we have found keys to equip people with a higher control within their own brain.

Using cold therapy or using just breathing?

Breathing, most of it is breathing. Because what do you do when you go into the cold? You learn to breathe deep. So the deep breathing influences par direct the biochemistry. And the biochemistry changed is learning how to suppress the inflammation. And then it doesn't go through the blood-brain barrier or the brain-blood barrier and affecting and deregulating the hormonal homeostasis over there, and calling a call to depression or feeling bad or feeling confused or anxiety or anything like that. We have a natural ability to rebalance our biochemistry through breathing.

Within 10 minutes. So what happens when we're exposed to cold, like to really cold conditions? What are the benefits? Why should we even be thinking about it? Because the last thing I want to do is jump in an ice cold bath or in ice water.

I say always gradual cold exposure. Gradual. First take a cold shower. And a cold shower does wonders, miracles. Our the biggest enemy within our Western society, the killer number one is cardiovascular related diseases. And anything that has got to do with the quality of life is a bad blood flow. Too much stress inside because the condition of the millions of little muscles in our 100,000 kilometers, like 70,000 miles of vascular channels and capillaries, they contain all these little muscles. When they are stimulated through cold showers, they help the blood flow go through. Then the heart rate goes down 20 to 30 beats a minute, 24 hours a day. That means stress is out and the blood flow is guaranteed going better to all cells. So oxygen, nutrients, vitamins get better into the cells. You get more energy. You get more energy and less stress. That's what the body wants. That's the natural state of our body to have sufficient energy for anything. Because that's the influencing into the mitochondria, the energy factories, through aerobic dissimulation, oxygen. Oxygen getting in because the blood flow is being helped through the stimulation of those millions of little muscles. A cold shower a day keeps the doctor away. In this case, the doctor is arrived.

Okay, so how long do you have to stay in the cold shower?

It begins with 30 seconds. You gotta take the shower anyway to cleanse yourself and, you know, to be clean and everything.

So at the end, just put the cold on?

Yes, 30 seconds, and naturally you will feel a boost. Naturally, you will feel the effect of the stimulation on the millions of little muscles inside, the interior of your... This is the greatest vascular fitness exercise ever, a cold shower. And 30 seconds, then it goes very fast because the condition of the vascular system, it goes very fast to its natural state, which should be much better than the way we are. because of our destimulative behavior, wearing clothes over our biggest organ all the time.

Yeah.

For the body, it's not logic. So a cold shower a day is the best exercise to train all these little muscles. Then you get a lot more energy. You feel a boost of energy, yeah, because it gets better into the cells. and it produces more molecules, more energy, ATP, it's all logic. And then naturally people are very fast able to prolong inside the cold shower, go for 45 seconds to one minute. So when it arrives at three minutes, you got so much more outcome in energy in the day investment is by far, it's nothing. And you know what? A cold shower is addictive.

Yeah. I like the cold bath. So I do the steam and then I jump in, just the cold water in the bathtub, and I lay there for a bunch of minutes. And it's incredible. You literally feel your whole system come back online, your brain come back online, your energy increase. It's pretty amazing. You know, so you created this Wim Hof method, activate your full human potential. The book is incredible. I encourage everybody to get a copy. It's really not just about a simple technique to jump in cold water. It's really about reclaiming your health, your life, your happiness, your control over everything. It's not just a little technique to get in cold water. The side effect of doing that is your life. You've learned how to control your breathing, your heart rate, your circulation to withstand really extreme temperatures, to actually be injected with like infectious agents that would kill people and subdue them with your immune system under your conscious control. And you've developed this into a teachable method that everybody can learn. So it's not, oh, here's this cool guy who can do these party tricks. It's like, this is a gift you're giving to the world. It sort of seems like a little bit of a shortcut than living in a cave and meditating for nine years and sort of cheating, but it really isn't. And you've really developed these three simple pillars, cold exposure, conscious breathing and the power of your mind. So can you talk about the method and how it works and what we should be doing?

First of all, in the new book of Scott Carney, he is an investigative journalist. And he wrote that book, what Doesn't Kill youl, which has been sold in 34 languages all over the world. Very successful, New York Times bestseller, blah, blah, the whole thing. and he was to debunk me six years ago.

Good luck with that.

Yeah, he is an anthropologist and an investigative journalist. He was paid to debunk me. And then two days later, he was standing in the snow, barefoot, doing, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh. And standing, you know, like a cloud. He was standing in the snow. He was making himself ridiculous almost. No, he saw there that it is real. It is real. And in his new book he tells, and he was investigating a lot of doctors, and one of them is a psychiatrist doctor who is into brain scans and all, and he tells that Professor Musiek, Professor Musiek states Wim Hof has found the secret of placebo. What we see as mind power, but we don't know where it is, placebo. Now it is in two, it's an entity, and we are able to connect with our will, with that power of the mind, and to intensify even the placebo effect. and to make it even stronger.

Even for people whose minds aren't disciplined or trained, you're saying this is possible?

Yes, yes, absolutely. Because they are born with it. Only if you are schooled all the time saying, hey, that you are not Mark Hyman, but that you are Peter Franklin. Then at a certain moment you become Peter Franklin. Because Mark Hyman is not accepted, it's not the way, you cannot do this, you are crazy if you are Mark Hyman. all those things, you know, we have been schooled that we are not able to tap in at will with our mind into our bodies and to deal with stress. And that's the way we are taught. And now I teach the people within one weekend, within one weekend I teach them to change the paradigm. Man, you can do whatever you want, but you are built to be able at at will, to control yourself so much better inside your own body. And it's only logic. It's only logic that our will, which is already inside of our body, that is able to control systems in our body to push buttons whenever is necessary. That is a, of course, is a complete different paradigm then up till now we thought it is possible. We are made to be dependent on pills, medicine, pharmacy, on McDonald's, on television, all that. That is our system. And that system has to change because that system is polluting the world, sterilizing the planet, exploiting the planet, and we've become insensitive. to ourselves and to others. This is the time for awakening to our inner mechanisms, our potential, the way nature meant it to be, the way nature gave it to us at birth. And we have to listen to that.

It seems like there's little doorways that you've created, right? The cold exposure, the breathing techniques, the meditation mindset, that you use in the book. These are the sort of doorways that people can access these abilities that help them manage their own minds and manage their own happiness and well-being and their health in ways that are pretty striking. And, I think, I want to just chat with you for a minute about this experiment that you did, which I still find mind-blowing, which is you willingly let doctors inject a known biotoxin from E. Coli into your bloodstream. knowing that this is something that would kill a normal person. And yet, you were able to overcome this using your techniques and manage your immune system. What I'm curious about is, did you consciously go, okay, I'm going to direct my immune system to fight these bacteria or these toxins or neutralize them, or were you just dropping into a state of meditation? How did that work? I mean, it just, it seemed, particularly in this time of coronavirus, We're all wanting to strengthen our immune system. We're all wanting to make sure we are able to fight whatever we're exposed to. How can this play a role for us? And what did you do? And tell us about that study, because.

It'S so fascinating to me. Exactly. The same inflammatory markers that are the damaging factor in COVID. In COVID, what is happening now that is the cytokines. The cytokines, right. Yeah, the cytokines, number one, number six, number eight, and number 11. I suppressed them within a quarter of hour. And this was known not to be possible by humans. I did my breathing. I changed my biochemistry and I do it willfully. And of course I know, oh, the doctor is going to inject me with the endotoxemia now, the E. Coli. Okay, then the E. Coli is working now. Not the effect after one hour, then it is... then you begin to notice. I began directly to fight the E. coli's reaction upon my immune cells, with the immune system inside, the cytokine storm and all that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I began to fight it directly by alerting my body through my mind. That was one. and through the breathing, breathing specific breathing exercises and they are within the method, they are very accessible for everybody and they are very effective. Not only with me, then I said oh but you are the ice man, you can do this, you can get the sites down where 16,000 people could not, you are the first one to show a complete different, yeah a complete different picture. You have gone into the autonomic nervous system, you have been influencing into the endocrine system, into the immune system, thought of all not possible. And you have done that. But you are the Iceman. Then I said, no, no, no, no. I'm the Iceman. No, at the most, maybe you can say, I'm a nice man. Iceman, that is nice for my ego, but I'm just a simple man, nice man. But let me tell you, we can do so much more than what you guys are thinking of in the science. We are built to be able to tackle disease, to prevent from disease. For that we have our will and our ability through our breath, manipulation of our breath to go deeply within and to change the biochemistry, to be on the alert, to activate the adrenal access to the utmost. And then danger can be emotional danger, emotional stress, mental stress, bacterial stress, viral stress, any stress in the end is cell biological stress, which is danger. And then the adrenal access activation takes care of that.

Wow.

There it is.

But when you say that, But you said you did also the study with people who weren't you. And I read that they actually were also able to do the same thing you did, even though they weren't the Iceman. They were like four other volunteers who were agreed to be injected with these toxins.

Exactly, 18 others. Okay. 12 randomly chosen of those 18. After four days of training, we're exposed to the E. Coli bacteria as well, and they all showed 100% being able to control and suppress the cytokine storm, the inflammation. They all felt good. They made jokes. They said they didn't inject us with E. Coli, but with sugar water.

That's unbelievable. And they measured the cytokines. and they measured all of that and they saw that change in your biology, which we only see often with medication or not at all. I mean, it almost seems like this is such a simple technique to everybody to learn to help fortify them against coronavirus, right? I mean, even if you have coronavirus, do you think you could actually help to reduce the inflammation as a result of this?

Absolutely, especially when you feel the symptoms, and I heard many already, but it is not medically researched. I don't know why, maybe they are not interested, like yourself in your position with Integrative Medicine, you cannot make their money out of that. But it doesn't matter. Let's go past and let's get back to the facts. The fact is that the cytokines, the interleukin number one, number six, number eight and eleven are the damaging factors of the COVID and we showed in 2014 in a comparative study within groups, we showed to suppress it within a quarter of hour. When you feel symptoms of COVID then get into the breathing and you will be effectively able to suppress the cytokines.

Share with us what a technique of breathing that you teach us.

You just lie on the sofa or in bed and then relax. A relaxed body is able to store up oxygen in the tissue. So relax. There's nothing going on.

Nice.

Then you take a full breath in from the belly, just And you let it go. And once again. And once again. We did it 30 times. Fully in. Let it go. Fully in. Let it go. Keep on going. I explain what is happening.

Yeah.

We are blowing out the carbon dioxide, but it becomes very alkaline, more than normal. And that is a sign within the brain, two alkaline, two alkaline, adrenal axis activation. The adrenaline pumps in, it peaks, and anything that should not be inside of the body, It's going to be eliminated, suppressed. And what is it in COVID? Cytokines.

So.

If you activate the adrenal axis through doing this 30 times, then we go after 30 times because the oxygen trigger, the trigger to breathe, is carbon dioxide, but it's blowing off. Body is very alkaline. Your biochemistry is great. It's great. And you just exhale, you hold after the exhale. So only a residual amount of air is left in the lungs. And you stay in that condition. And then easily you are able to go one minute, one and a half minute, maybe two minutes if you have done well the 30 deep breaths. Two minutes with a residual amount of air in your lungs for two minutes without breathing. And that what happens of course, the brainstem, the primitive oxygen parameters, they say there is no oxygen, no oxygen and they shoot into the adrenaline, it's all reactive, So the brainstem, the reactive part of our brain, it's just the buttons are pushed and then the adrenaline shoots out, epinephrine, shoots out over all the body. And this is very good to detoxify. So people with a hangover, if they do this, 20 minutes, they detoxify. They can go for a drink again.

So the idea is you do 30 breaths, then you hold your breath for a minute or two, And then you do it again.

After the exhalation, and then at the end, when you feel the urge of breathing again, you take a full in. You hold for 15 seconds. Full in, hold, and squeeze a little bit to your head, because it's nice. You bring in cerebrospinal fluid to the head. Then it gets into the brainstem and into the limbic system, into the midbrain, where we normally don't have so much blood flow because we always think, think, think is where the blood flow goes. Now we push it from the inside, inside the deepest part of the brain. And then suddenly it begins to become neurally alive. And then we are able to connect at will because that's neurology. So we are. And then we get a sense of control over our mood. That is mood, absolute mood regulation. In case of people with depression, mostly it's caused by inflammation and stress and emotional deprivation. All that creates a biological or a biochemical deficit. And through doing this, you feel you're filling up the tank. and you feel that you are in control and nobody wants to feel bad, then they feel good again.

That's incredible. So basically the technique is 30 breaths, hold for a minute or two, take a breath, hold for 15 seconds and then repeat.

Yes, you will see, find out that every time it goes and easier and longer.

So do this for 20 minutes a day is what you're saying. That's it.

That's what we do right now in San Francisco, big study on the DNA with this method, with this breathing. And it's amazing. The results are amazing on the DNA.

So let's see, two or three minute cold shower and 20 minutes of breathing and you can give up all your winter clothes.

Yep, you can hit the road anytime without car.

You can fight coronavirus, you can feel happy, empowered, In control of yourself?

You feel the connection. And then when you need it, you know what to do. You just go within. And then you learn about the lost connection within because of our exterior way of gaining information, control over the world, et cetera. And that the control inside we lost. And now it's back. And we don't need to sit for nine years in a cave.

That's incredible. That's incredible. It's incredible to me because I've always thought that you need to practice and practice and practice and meditate, meditate, meditate for decades in order to be able.

To... You know what, Mark? They compared 10 minutes of this breathing, specifically breathing, it brings people deeper in the brain, than people who are doing exercising for four hours, mindfulness a day, four years. Wow.

All right, I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. I'm starting tomorrow.

Anybody can do this.

I'm starting today. I'm starting today. I'm so excited about your book because your book, the Wim Hof Method: Achieving Full Human Potential, is exactly about teaching you how to do this. It's not just the theory, it's not just all the stories of how you had these superhuman feats, but it's really about how you as an individual can overcome some of the challenges we face as human beings that make us feel powerless over our own minds, over our own happiness, our own life, our own well-being, our own health. And this is a very, very empowering idea that you're- yeah, we are.

Especially right now with all the turmoil, the confusion, the anxiety, and the helplessness against the COVID Man, there is so much more within us and it's time to wake up.

Yeah, it's so beautiful. It's like you're the unlikeliest guru. I love this crazy guy from the Netherlands who just like found some doorway into something that was obscure to most of us for thousands of years. And I'm just so grateful for your work and your commitment. And, you know, I know you've got- Like what?

I'm honored. I'm honored to be your guest on your podcast. Thank you very much. Of course.

Of course.

You are a great, bloody great guy. Thank you. Well, we have fun together when we're together.

Yeah, that's for sure. That's for sure. And I'm coming. I want to go. As soon as COVID lightens up, I want to go do one of your week-long what is it? Week-long workshops in Poland. You go to the ice in the winter.

It's like four or five days. and in the end, you will be exposed to the elements of cold wind that is wind chill and all for five hours in your shorts and you're going to have a great bloody great time.

Oh my God, I need it.

You know why?

Because I love swimming and there's lakes here and I went in yesterday, it was a little chilly. I was like, I came out freezing. I'm like, oh no, Wim's going to be mad at me. I was so cold. I had to come and take a hot shower.

I don't like, yeah, I love hot showers, but I also love the, you know, the cold. The cold gives you such a power. And if you do the cold on a regular basis, like daily, you become, when you get older, and you know, so many people get older and get so many inflammation and deterioration of the and this who will never get sick no more.

It's amazing. Yeah, speaking of that, I think looking at the studies you've done and combining cold exposure and breathing, meditation and your mental attitude, it's had huge effects on people's health. And, there are many students that you've had who are practicing this method for years and they've been able to reverse diseases, things like diabetes and Parkinson's and lose weight and do incredible feats of that system. Autoimmune. How does that work? I mean, can you share some of these stories? Because this seems like a revolutionary approach to treating illness. Yes.

Autoimmune diseases is inflammation based on inflammation cytokines, cytokine storms, an overreactive immune system, and we had no control over this. So when you begin to do this, you learn to tap into the adaptive immune system. You learn to go into the innate immune system, both. And suddenly your rheumatism, arthritis, psoriasis, a disease of Crohn's, Parkinson's, all these things begin to become within your control. You sense it, you feel it. You don't need to know what is all happening. You simply sense that you are in control over the inflammatory markers. The inflammation doesn't happen anymore. How is that possible? Now, that is what is happening. And that it needs to be researched and into the research right now with the Radboud University here on rheumatism, on arthritis, because hundreds of people with arthritis and it's gone. They control it.

It's incredible.

Without medicine, without pills, they just control it. They got there and the doctors say, Spontaneous remission! Look into the healing power of Forni.

Well, I'm very close to the rheumatology department at Cleveland Clinic and the doctors, they are very interested in open to these ideas. It'd be amazing to do a study. I love that.

Yes, please. Let's go.

Because autoimmune disease affects 80 million people more than diabetes, more than heart disease, more than cancer together. And the treatments we have are only somewhat effective and often have a lot of side effects and costs. So I think it's a really important idea. I love this idea. So we're going to figure this out. Now, one of the other things is really relevant.

Mark, this is very important.

I know.

Studies, non-speculative evidence-based trials is what we need to do.

I agree.

Because 80 million people relieving of their suffering by autonomy within themselves, that is love.

Yeah. All right. You just said it. It's love. That is exactly what this is all about. I just, you're so full of love. You're so giving. You're so on a mission to teach people how to be happy and be empowered. And, you know, right now is one of the most challenging times in a long time in human history. And we're all facing the threat of economic loss, the disruption of our social fabric, the incredible fear and disease, the depression and loss of autonomy. I mean, there's so many things that are taking us down. And I know this is a very tough time for a lot of people. And what you're saying is that a lot of this is in our minds. I mean, there are realities externally that are real and yes, there's loss and there's all sorts of things, but how we handle that is up to us. And using these methods in this power of learning how to regulate your own biology and your own health, that actually you can relieve things like depression and anxiety. Yes. And talk about how that works because we sort of hinted at it. But I think it's worth spending a minute talking about how these techniques, the Wim Hof method that you describe in your book, achieving your full human potential, which everybody should get. And I'm excited to have my copy and go through it and practice it. How can we use this method to help us with this difficult time? And how does it work to relieve depression and anxiety?

Exactly. Depression is directly related to a deregulated biochemistry, inflammation, a deregulated immune system caused by oxidative stress, could be stress from mental stress, emotional stress, bacterial, viral, doesn't matter. It's all cell biological stress. Are we able to have a cell biological stress? influenced positively by us at will? Yes, we have.

Before you go on, I just want to make a point. For those listening, depression from the traditional scientific perspective now we understand is a disease of inflammation in the brain. So, if you're depressed, your brain's on fire. That's why what women is talking about is so important. So, continue. I just wanted to make that point. Yes.

So that is deregulating the hormonal balance of dopamine, serotonin in the brain because of the inflammation. Are we, the question is, are we, and inflammation is the cause and effect of actually any disease. But let's get back. Are we able to bring down inflammatory markers or inflammation? And I say yes. within a quarter of hour. Within a quarter of hour, I mean, a very developed stage of disease takes more time, of course. It takes healing, it takes energy, it takes plasticity and all. We are all able to influence therein vigorously if we just take up the techniques well. I've seen so many people with so many diseases thought of incurable without the aid of pills and medicines. And now these people took on these natural ways and they cure. They get a control, a sense of control within their own bodies and then it all starts. But for prevention, I tell you, and depression, which is inflammation. We are very able within 20 minutes to feel a different human condition of the mind within 20 minutes. Just do this breathing and then find out and feel. Because feeling in the end is the real understanding.

First one, I think, is really important.

Love. Yeah. Right.

So the research on this super clear, regularly doing things that you love makes you more resilient to stress. Right, so you mentioned a lot of Americans are struggling that they don't have control over their life. And this is the interesting thing about stress, Mark, is that sometimes we can't as physicians change the stressors in our patients' lives.

Right, no, no, you can't change what's happening out there, you just change- But.

We can make them more resilient to it.

Yes.

And regularly doing things that you love makes you more resilient to stress. At the same time, being chronically stressed makes it harder for us to experience pleasure in day-to-day things. So, one of my recommendations to my patients is have a daily dose of pleasure, even if it's just for five minutes. You know, can you each day give pleasure the same priorities you might give to the amount of vegetables you have on your plate? Or whether you go to the gym. This could be going for a walk, it could be reading a book, listening to a podcast, it could even be coming home from work putting on YouTube, watching your favorite comedian for five minutes and laughing. Yeah, that is very important and very valuable.

It makes a huge difference. I mean, I'm now in California doing my public television show and I was at the hotel and I was right on the beach and I went out to the beach and I jumped in the water, swam a little bit and I came back and I literally just laid there in the sand doing absolutely nothing and I can't tell you how pleasurable that was. to just be unplugged for a minute and stop. And most of us just keep go, go, go all day long and distract, distract, distract.

Well, there's obviously the nature piece there as well, which is very impactful for stress. But let me tell you about a patient I saw recently. I think you'll find this interesting. 54 year old chap, I think he was, certainly mid-50s he was the local, he was the CFO of a local plastics company. And, you know, he was in a good job. earning good money, married with two kids. He came in to see me and he said, Dr. Chachi, look, I'm sort of, I'm struggling a bit. I find it hard to get out of bed sometimes in the morning. I find it hard to concentrate at work. You know, I just feel a bit indifferent to things. Is this what depression is? I started to chat to him. We did some tests. I was looking into all aspects of his lifestyle. But ultimately one thing was quite clear to me is that he never did anything that he loved. So I asked him, you know, how's your job? He said, yeah, it's fine, you know, I don't really enjoy it, but it pays the mortgage, pays the bills, feeds the family. I said, okay, how's your relationship with your wife? Yeah, so-so, you know, I don't really see her much, but it's, you know, it's fine, I guess. He was very, very indifferent. I said the same about his kids. And I said, do you do Have you got any hobbies? I said, I don't have time. My work's busy. At the weekends, I've got to do all the chores. I want to take the kids to their classes and their sports games. I don't have any time. I said, Did you ever have any hobbies? And he said, yeah, sure. When I was a teenager, I used to love playing with train sets. I said, okay, fine. Do you have a train set at home? He said, well, yeah, I've got one in my attic, but I haven't played with it for years. And I said, what I'd love you to do when you get home this evening is get your train set out. Now, look, Mark, I appreciate this may.

Not be the advice you'd like to hear.

You write that on your prescription pad, I'm sure.

Yeah, well, I'm all for lifestyle prescriptions, right?

And he-- Play with train set three times a week. But I'll see what happens. What was fascinating is that-- Refills unlimited. Exactly, but it may not be the advice that he was expecting from his doctor, but he said, yeah, okay, sure, I'll do that. Then this was in a conventional medical practice. These were 10 minutes consultations. This is in the National Health Service in the UK. I, we don't get the chance to follow up all our patients. We see maybe 40 to 50 patients a day. We simply can't follow them all up. I didn't know what was going on with him. Three months later, I finished my morning surgery and I was in the car park about to go and do my home visits and I bumped into his wife and I said, Hey, how's your husband getting on? She said, Dr. Chastity, I cannot believe the difference. I feel like I've got the guy I married back again. My husband comes home from work, he's pottering around on his train set, he's always on eBay looking for collectors items, and he's now subscribed to this, you know, this magazine. I thought, okay, that's incredible. I still hadn't seen him. Three months after that, he comes in for a well-man check to my office, and he comes in with his blood tests. I'm about to go through them with him, and I said, Hey, how are you doing? Dr. Natasha, I feel incredible. I've got energy, my mood is good, and I feel motivated. I said, How's your marriage? Marriage is great. I'm getting on really, really well with my wife. How is your job? Love it. Really, really enjoy the job. So why is that so powerful, Mark, is this? Did he have a mental health problem?

Or train said deficiency?

Or did he have a deficiency of passion in his life? And when he corrected that passion deficiency, that's true. Everything else starts to come back online.

So yeah.

I want to expand the conversation about stress to go, yeah, sure. Breathing, nature, meditation, exercise, these things are fantastic. And of course, I talk about them and I go into the science and the practical implications of people. But what about something about passion, doing things that you love? Yeah. It's just as important.

That's true. You know, I often talk about what are the ingredients for health? And one of them is meaning and purpose. And I was just shocked a number of months ago to see an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association that people who lacked meaning and purpose had a higher risk of death and disease. I mean, it's just striking. It turns out in the research that it's not just smoking or bad diet or lack of exercise, but lack of meaning and purpose that increases your risk of death. I mean, that's a very striking finding.

Yeah, it's amazing. And obviously, the way we look at health, we're looking at all of these multiple inputs that play a role in someone's health. And of course, I am just as passionate about food, physical activity, sleep, you know, all these things that are critical. But we've also got to think about those social pieces, you know, our community, the relationships we've got, you know, why do we get up each morning? Do we feel that we've got control over our life? Or do we feel, you know, do we sit in traffic for two, three hours a day in a job that we can't stand for a boss who doesn't value us? the reality is that that is the case, you know, we've got to have to think about with our patients, how we tackle that. Of course, not all our patients can leave that job, right? So I'm passionate and I've used these tips that I've, you know, that the book is full of so many tips so people can literally choose the ones that are relevant for their life. But I have worked in deprived areas in the UK for many years and these tips also work for people in deprived areas on low incomes because the common, criticism of wellness is that it's just for the wealthy, it's for the middle classes. And I'm passionate to say it is applicable to everyone. You give people these tools of nature, of passion, of, you know, a quick five minute workouts. Even if you're living in a lifestyle that you don't enjoy, that there are lots of stresses in your life, you can help process that stress. You really can and it can make a huge difference.

One of the things that people don't realize is they think stress is subjective, but it's subjective. It's the perception of how something impacts us. It's our beliefs about something. I think if that's true, then how do we create a different mindset so that when something happens, you know, it's not stressful. I was talking to my wife this morning, you know, she's putting on a show, a comedy show called the Consciousness Show, and she had some issue with the tickets, and she was getting stressed about it because she thought the ones that were on the waiting list were actually given tickets, and she was kind of freaking out. And I'm like, that is not really a big stressor. I mean, it's your belief about it. It's not a big deal. Like, there are things to really be worried about. And I think for most of us, we get caught in this vicious cycle of stress and. worry about things that are not really worth worrying about. And I think it's our beliefs about it that make it seem so. And I think there are real things to worry about, you know, if you have income issues, if you have, you know, real trauma in your family or, I mean, there are real things that are going on that are stressful. Like my dad died last summer and that was very stressful for me. But I think there, there are, are ways of looking at changing our mindset. So can you talk about how that, how that works?

Well, I think there's a couple of things to say there. I think when it comes to stresses, I think we need to think about what we can control and what we can't control. Yeah. Many of us, I have for years spent time and energy worrying about things I have no control over. And that's something that I've changed a lot in my life. I've really had to work hard on that. And once you get into that mindset, it's amazing how your stress levels just come down because so many of those things, like traffic, I can't do anything about traffic. I just don't let it worry me anymore. I'm just- you- don't get road rage, Dr. Chatterjee. Hey, you know, if I'm honest, seven, eight years ago, you know, when I was a carer for my dad, when I was working a busy job, when my kids were very young and wasn't sleeping very much, you know what? If I was driving to work and someone would come in front of me or cut me up, I'd probably get quite agitated, if I'm honest. But now I just don't. I'm like, ah, they're probably having a.

Bad day if they're sort of screaming at me from the window and I'm.

Just a lot more chilled and relaxed. I mean, you give your power over to other people.

People if you let them affect you that way.

Yeah, for sure. But it's something we have to work on. And I think the reason why many of us struggle with this is because of time. Now, let's mean what I mean by that. I think one of the biggest stressors in the modern world today, in the 21st century, is our lack of downtime. So the modern world has stolen downtime from us. It's. It's gradually being eroded out of our lives. I give an example. We're here in Santa Monica, right? In California. I bet 10 years ago, if we were here and we went into a local cafe to buy a coffee, I bet people would be standing in line, they'd be looking around, they might bump into a friend, they might be looking at all the sweet treats and they might be thinking, which one am I gonna have? They'd be daydreaming a little bit. Now, if you go to any cafe, what's everyone doing?

Everyone on their phone, computer.

Yeah. And look, to be clear, I'm not criticizing. I will do that as well a lot of the time, okay? But my point is- Just to be.

Just lack of time. You know, it was fascinating. I just went to give a talk at the CIA, the Central Intelligence Agency. And it's a highly secure building, Langley, and there's no technology allowed. So you can't bring in a phone, computer, nothing. Not even a Fitbit. And what was striking to me is that everybody was present. I gave a lecture to 300 people and nobody was on their phone. I was in a room giving a talk to 30 or 40 doctors and health professionals. Nobody was on their phone and everybody was focused and paying attention. It was the most remarkable thing. It was like going back on a time machine.

But only a time machine of 15 years.

Yeah.

That's how quickly things have changed.

I thought it was 2009.

Yeah, that's... And I don't think we've realized how toxic that is, because you may say, well, why does that matter? You know, what's the problem that we're using this downtime to get ahead? You know, we're sending an email, we're quickly updating our Instagram. well, I'll tell you the problem with that. There's many problems with that, but we used to think that our brain went to sleep when we switched off, right? When we stopped focusing on a task in front of us, our brain went to sleep. Neuroscience shows us that's not the case. When we stop focusing on a task in front of us, there's a part of the brain called the default mode network or the DMN that goes into overdrive. Now, what does that part of the brain do? Well, there's many things. But two things I think listeners will find really interesting is that part of the brain helps us solve problems and helps us be more creative. So this is why so many of us get our best ideas when we're out for a walk, out for a run, or we're in the shower. I don't know if it's just me or you, do you get my best ideas when I'm in the shower?

Totally. When I go for a run or a bike ride and I can just wander around and think.

And this is because, Mark, our brain is trying to solve problems for us if we give it the down time to do that. And I think showers are one of the few places still where our phones haven't, you know, we don't, I don't know about you, I certainly don't take my phone into the shower with me. I'm sure that will change very soon. Yeah, now the new phones, they go.

Down to four meters underwater, so.

Yeah, I mean, this is why we keep trying to swimming, actually, because I think swimming is, again, one of those sports now where you can still do without technology, you know, even in the gym now, people are posting selfies of them doing their workout, updating their feed, you know, and the DMN is a really important part of our brain. And I go into a lot of companies now to talk to them about employee wellbeing. And one of my top tips for them is take a tech free lunch break.

Digital detox.

Even if it's just for 15 minutes, take a tech free lunch break. And last year, actually, I made actually it was earlier this year, I made an ITV documentary on stress. and we got to take three or four people, we got to measure their stress levels minute to minute throughout the day for three days. And one chap in particular, he was a manager of his local company, he took his job seriously, he wanted to lead by example, but he was complaining of stress. He was thinking, he was complaining that he was drinking too much alcohol, his relationship with his wife was under strain, and he was always tired. Now, we measured his stress levels. It was HRV heart rate variability. And we could see that actually on his workday, his stress levels would climb throughout the morning. At lunchtime, he would work through his lunch and they'd keep climbing. And all afternoon as well, they were just constantly elevated. He would go home late. He would drink alcohol to unwind. He wouldn't be present with his wife. That would cause issues. He wouldn't sleep well, and the cycle would continue. All I changed within Mark was I said, okay, look, I want you to take a 15-minute break at lunchtime. I want you to leave your phone in your drawer and go outside for a walk. He was very lucky he had a rivet nearby and we can maybe touch on why nature is so important. So all he did was for 15 minutes at lunchtime, he went for a walk in nature without his phone. Now, when we remeasured his data objectively, his stress levels were right down. But subjectively, what did he say? He said, Dr. Shashi, I feel like a different person. I'm more creative in the afternoon. I enjoy my job more. I'm leaving early now rather than late. It's not just on time, I'm leaving early. I'm drinking less alcohol and my relationship with my wife has improved. So this is what I call the ripple effects, right? One small thing.

It's powerful.

So when we say that wellness is for the middle classes, Well, hold on a minute. Who doesn't have the ability to have a 15 minute tech free lunch break?

Yeah.

Right, that is free.

That's not asking a lot. It's true.

I'm not trying to underplay this, but.

I'm very- It's powerful. I mean, I think the whole digital detox movement's really growing. And, you know, for my wife, for our anniversary, I got her a little box. And I said, Here, honey, here's your anniversary present. And she's like, oh, this is such a nice little box. I said, no, no. That's not the present. The present is I put my phone in the box Friday night and I don't take it out till Sunday night. And she's like, started crying. Like that was the best present I could give her to be present with her, right? The presence of presence, right? And then I did it and I thought, oh, this is for her, you know? But my experience was so transformational. I was like laying on the carpet, playing with the cats, listening to jazz, just daydreaming, relaxing, not grabbing my phone, every second. And it was the most wonderful experience for me. I love it. It's like a regular habit now. We leave our phones at home, we go for dinner, we don't.

On Sunday mornings, my wife and I will go out with our kids and we'll both leave our phone at home. And, you know, I do it for the whole day, but often it's like four hours, four or five hours. And what's incredible is that you come home, and I feel like I've been on holiday.

Yeah.

Like, you. We don't realize how much this constantly checking our phones is draining us.

Yeah.

And I got called out by this, by my daughter. It was a few years ago.

Yeah.

You know, I was playing with her in our living room, and I can't remember what was going on, but, you know, I kept nipping out into the kitchen to keep checking my phone. And she said to me, Daddy, you're not really here, are you? And that really, really struck me. I mean, kids really can teach us how to be present and live in the moment. And I thought, wow, she's right. I'm not really here because, yes, I'm in the room playing with her, but my mind is actually not quite there. It's thinking about what's going on on my phone. And that really, that really changed my behavior.

That'll get you.

That did get you. That got me big time.

Right from the mouth of babes, right?

Yeah, but I think it's a very powerful lesson for all of us. And I think people need strategies because these things are designed to be addictive. So, you know, I will not charge my phone in my bedroom anymore. If I bring that phone into my bedroom, I can't resist it. I simply cannot resist. It's too addictive. So I charge it in my kitchen.

Yeah.

And so I say to people, you need to try and create a bit of tech free time in your day. Sure, lunch break is a great time to do it. But if you can have some time, ideally a golden hour in the morning and a golden hour before going to bed. If a golden hour is too much, start with five minutes in the morning, five minutes before you go to bed.

Well, if you can't figure out how to do it for five minutes, there's definitely a bigger problem in your life.

Yeah, there is. But, you know, and also when people are commuting, right? That's a time when often people are on the train, on a bus, you know, what you want to do then is instead of trying to catch up on those emails, use that as a way of unwinding, you know, listen to some music, do 10 minutes on your meditation app, like Calm or Headspace. Listen to an inspiring podcast that feels good, like my one or your one or anyone that they like, right? Use that time, really value your mental space. What information are you feeding it? If you watch the news and you're putting toxic information right into your brain the whole time, that is going to impact the way you feel, your stress levels. I said, take the news app off your phone. In fact, another tip I say to people, and this is probably one of the most impactful things, notifications. Take them off your phone. And how did I guess? Hey, it's one of the most, it's one of the most powerful things. But, Mark, I would challenge anybody listening to this podcast for seven days to switch off their notifications, which simply means, you know, if someone likes your Instagram post, you're not going to get a notification. If you have a new email, you're not going to get a notification, etc. Etc. Try it for seven days.

If you don't feel better, fine, go back to it. And then people are on their phone so much, they don't realize there's a new screen app where you can look on your iPhone and see how many times you pick up your phone. And I was sitting next to this friend of mine who were at a lecture and she was picking up her phone, doing Instagram, whatever. And I'm like, give me your phone. And I grabbed her phone and I'm like, showed her, like, she picked up her phone a thousand times in a day. And I'm like, that is a lot of time. picking up your phone. So let's talk about some of the strategies that you put in the book. You talk about the importance of a morning routine because yes, we know the harm of stress and we can go into that more but I think people get it. What are the 3Ms you talk about that you can practice every morning to start your day and actually kind of get ahead of the stress?

Yeah, so I call these the 3Ms of a morning routine. The first M is mindfulness, the second M is movement, and the third M is mindset. So I say, look, I'm a huge fan of morning routines because they give you a period of calm in the morning that's just going to make you a bit more resilient to cope with those stresses that will come up in your day. It's not if they're going to come up, they will come up. But I think the 3Ms provides a very valuable structure to help you think about what are you going to put into your morning routine. And it works. If you have an hour in the morning, it works beautifully well. If you only have 5 minutes, like some of my patients, It can still work really well. So, the first term mindfulness can be meditation, it can be breathing, you know, it can be a practice of mindfulness. Whatever you want can go under that umbrella of mindfulness. I personally, currently I'm doing the Calm Meditation app. So, first thing when I get up in the morning, I'm plugging into the Calm Meditation app. I put my phone on airplane mode so I can't see any of the incoming noise that might be on there. and I do 10 or 15 minutes meditation. Some days, Mark, I hit the zone and I feel really, really calm. Other days, I just go through my to-do list. But what I've learned to do is not beat myself up about it on those days where I'm going through my to-do list. I'm accepting that, hey, you know what? My mind's a little bit busy today. That's okay. Whereas even 18 months ago, I would get slightly frustrated, oh, I can't switch my mind off. I can't clear my mind. So I think that's a great practice for people to do. Then I move on to movement. Again, movement can be anything depending on what you like. I do a lot of hip stretches, maybe some yoga moves, maybe some workouts on a step, maybe some press ups, whatever I feel like for five or 10 minutes. That is all I do. And then I'll move on to mindset. So mindset can be anything to put you in a positive frame of mind. So it could be reading a book that you find very uplifting for a few minutes with a cup of tea in the morning. It could be doing affirmations. And actually, you know, like many people listening, I've got young kids, right? So my daughter, who's currently six, has a sixth sense when daddy is up, right? So I try and get up before them and get my morning routine done, but she can sense when I'm downstairs doing it. And often she'll creep down in. Often it's in my second end, in my movement, which is fine because she just does the movement with me. But if she's there with me for the third end, which is mindset, I'll do affirmations with her. So we'll sit there together, I'll hold her hand, she'll hold my hands, and we will stay for about two minutes. I'm happy, I'm calm, I'm stress-free. I'm happy, I'm calm, I'm stress-free. And we'll just repeat that for two minutes. And at the end of those two minutes, she's got the most beautiful smile on her face. I feel totally relaxed and calm. And that calm continues throughout the day. that's the beauty of it. It's not just in the moment. I'm more resilient to the stressors in my life. Now, for people who are thinking, I don't have time for that, because I've got a lot of patients who are single moms who might be working two jobs. Yeah. I managed to persuade them to give it a go even for five minutes. And one of my patients simply does this. She does her morning routine with those 3Ms in just five minutes. She gets up and for one minute, she will do deep breathing. She does a breath that I taught her called the 3-4-5 breath. When you breathe in for three, hold for four and breathe out for five. Okay, she does that for one minute. Then she does two minutes of some yoga moves that she learned on YouTube, right? So this is super accessible. She didn't have to go to a class, even though I recommend yoga classes. She learned some moves on YouTube, which she likes. And then for the final two minutes, she's got about three or four books that make her feel good. And she literally, for two minutes, she reads three or four pages from that book. And she has reported back, that actually that has really, really helped her. In fact, she thinks it's helped her eczema get better, which is remarkable because there are many things that can cause eczema. Eczema we know ultimately is a slight dysfunction of the immune system, stress impacts the immune system.

Of course.

So for her doing that morning routine, she feels is helping her with her skin. For somebody else, it may not do that, right? But I just want to really get across how powerful these small intentional moments of calm are So again, I hope people listening think, you know, maybe I'll try that 3M morning routine for about seven days or so and see how you feel.

Yeah, I know it's so powerful. It's just building the structure of that into your day. And I think, you know, when I do it, it makes a huge difference. And like yesterday, again, I was preparing for my show and I'm like, oh, I got 300 emails, I want this to do and that to do. And I'm like, no, no, I'm just gonna stop. I'm gonna do a little meditation in the morning. I went to work out a little bit. I went to the beach and just sat on the beach, went in the ocean for a little bit, and I just, my mind was clear. I felt calm. It was like, and it set me up for an amazing day, which, you know, I often don't give myself that. I mean, I usually meditate in the morning for 20 minutes and we'll exercise when I can.

Can I ask you a question, Mark? Do you ever feel, you know how important meditation is for you in the morning. But do you, like many of us, sometimes feel, oh, I'm too busy today. I don't have that 20 minutes. I just want to get ahead with my emails. And if you do that, I think it'll be interesting for people to hear that is, do you fall prey to.

The same pressures that we fall prey to? Absolutely. I absolutely. You know, I've got the stuff I got to prepare for.

I don't have time.

I've got to finish this. I got to do that. And. Yeah, but I'll usually fit it in somewhere else. Yeah. And I think, you know, It's probably a false notion. It's probably not even true that if I did it, I'd feel better. And when I do it, especially when I do it regularly, like twice a day, I don't feel stressed about anything. Like, I'm resilient, I'm calm, I'm more productive, I'm more focused. And it's like, well, how do you have that much time every day to meditate? Well, turns out I don't have the time not to because of the impact it has on the quality of my life, the quality of my happiness, the the quality of my experience, the quality of my relationships and my overall well-being and my productivity. So I think it's, I've learned that it's something that's essential and it's not just an add-on. It's as important as eating well and exercising.

And I think that's one thing we really work on with people when they're really struggling with this is getting them in some pattern and rhythm of of getting a good sleep cycle, getting a good eating cycle, not grabbing and going, not skipping meals. I mean, there's a lot to be said for fasting. You've done a lot of podcasts on this and there can be really a lot of great things with fasting, but sometimes when people are really, when their HPA axis is really underactive and it's not working very well and if they've got the signs of burnout or adrenal dysfunction, Right, we fasting sometimes for too long can be more stress on their body. Some extreme diets can be more stress on their body and they might not be at a point where they can do it, they can feel good with it, right? They can't get all the benefit from it. So, they can still fast for 12 hours but we might not be fasting them for 16 hours or 18 hours during that time.

Well, it's really important what you bring up about food because there are certain foods that actually cause stress in the body independent of your thoughts. And there are certain foods that reduce stress in the body independent of what you're thinking, right? So, actually food can be a stressor or a relaxer depending on what you're eating. Can you talk about the foods that tend to cause more cortisol, adrenaline and stress in the body? And then some of the foods that we would be thinking about that might help reduce that.

That's such a great point. You know, if we eat A donut and with coffee and sugar, I'm going to an extreme here for breakfast. It's not that extreme, it's probably the.

Breakfast of most Americans. Dunkin' Donuts are common.

It's really stressful on the body, right?

Why?

Because it causes this spike in our blood sugar, because it gets digested and absorbed really quickly, our blood sugar goes up quickly and the body goes, oh no, right? It gets stressful. For the body, the body produces a bunch of insulin to help lower it. And then what happens is the blood sugar drops afterwards. And so those ups and downs in blood sugar like that are really stressful for the body. And when the blood sugar is dropping.

It'S a life-threatening emergency. You've got to go get food. Right, right.

So those, you know, if you're eating a lot of foods that cause your blood sugar to go up and then drop, with those easily to digest and absorb, you have a can of soda. I mean, those things really are stressful for the body. They create this stress, they create the cortisol response. It's one of the reasons we get a lot of weight gain around the belly when we eat those kind of foods because they are stressful for the body. And so instead we want to be really balancing our blood sugar.

And- Before you get to how to fix it, I just want to point out this study that was just so mind-blowing when I read it years ago by a friend of ours, Dr. David Ludwig from Harvard, and he took kids that were overweight and fed them three different breakfasts, right? Oatmeal, steel cut oats, and an omelet. Same calories, same calories, but different carbohydrate, protein, different fat. What he found was that the kids who had the regular oatmeal, like the quickly absorbed oatmeal, we think oatmeal is healthy, right? It's not like they're having a donut. their insulin went up, obviously their blood sugar went up, but their cortisol went up, their adrenaline went up. So the body perceived it as a stress. Whereas the kids who ate the omelet didn't happen. And then the kids who ate the oatmeal were hungrier and wanted more food. So we know that starch and sugar create a biological stress response in the body and that's bad. In addition to the fact that the sugar causes a problem, your brain chemistry and your neurotransmitters are talking to your fat cells and they're telling them when they're under stress to store more fat. So literally stress makes you gain weight independent of what you're eating. So it's really, it's fasting when you look at weight and other issues. It's so connected.

It's so connected. It's fascinating. So, I mean, so really balancing blood sugar is so powerful. It's, you know, I mean, people sometimes we say these things again and again, like, you know, balance your blood sugar, have a good source of protein, healthy fat and fiber at each meal. And sometimes we say it so much that I wonder people just, oh yeah, it's the same thing. They're just saying eat healthy. But it's really critical to have a good source of protein, healthy fat and great source of fiber at every meal because it's, it's, it, it is not allowing for that stress response to happen in the body. It's, it's nourishing the body and that's exactly what the body needs. so.

Yeah. And so I think, you know, using food and having the right quality fats, low glycemic diet, lots of fiber, phytochemicals, these are all messenger molecules that help reduce the stress in the body.

Yes. So, you know, so we always start with food first, and this is a great place to start in this area, you know, really working to balance the blood sugar, preventing those spikes in blood sugar, preventing that stress.

Yeah.

We often work to pull people off of caffeine for a period of time, you know. if they're in that state where they're really anxious, they don't need the caffeine. If they're in that state where they're burnt out and exhausted, they might feel like they need the caffeine, but that's actually, you know, a little bit of a stress for their body. And so when the adrenal glands or the whole HPA axis isn't able to handle that stress at this point in time, you don't want to add to it. So we often will pull people away from caffeine or really lower their levels or keep it to a little bit of green tea. and just not excessive amounts.

How about alcohol? Is that gonna relax you or is.

It gonna cause a problem? You know, I mean, so, you know, it's really with alcohol, it's all about moderation, right? It's really all about moderation. We know that too much alcohol is gonna wake us up in the middle of the night. We know that when it wears off, it's, you know, alcohol is a depressant. When it wears off, we get that rebound stimulating effect. We really need to be working on sleep during this period of time, well, all the time. But we need to get good restful sleep, so we just have to watch the amount. I mean, that's really, really important. And so for some of our patients, we take them off of most of the alcohol for a period of time. And, you know, it also wears down your B vitamins.

And B vitamins are really important for-.

So when you drink, you deplete your B vitamins. That's what you're saying. Yeah. And B vitamins are critical for the functioning of our adrenal glands. So things that you might have been, you know, people will say to me, well, I've always had two cups of coffee in the morning and it's been fine. You know, why can't I have two cups of coffee now in the morning? And, you know, when you get to that exhausted, burnt out stage, that's just too much for your body at this period of time. We just have to be a little more gentle.

Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And I also think what you said before, I want to come back to it, because it's such an important point, we jump right over it. You said something that I think is worth underscoring, which is that infections or any physical illness can cause a stress response. So let's say you have Lyme disease or you have a virus or whatever, independent of your thoughts or feelings or perceptions, it can cause a stress. And there are certain foods that drive inflammation that cause a physiologic stress response. So anything in the body that causes inflammation, either your thoughts which can cause inflammation, or gluten or dairy or food sensitivities or sugar, all these can cause a stress response. So sometimes getting rid of not just the junk food, obviously, the sugar, but actually potential food sensitivities or gluten, dairy can be enormously effective.

And with the point about the infections, I think that's something that we see a lot of people who've become debilitated over time from dealing with whether it was Lyme or Epstein-Barr virus or some other chronic infection. And they're just really having a hard time rebounding from it. And it's important for us to support the adrenal glands during that time because that's a really important part of healing because over time, you know, if we were to do their saliva test, we often see it being very on the lower side and that's an area that we have to support. We're supporting their immune system, we're supporting their digestive system, we're supporting their detoxification system, but we also have to support them hormonally too. It is important for us to pay attention to.

All right, so what are the other things we have to do? We clean up our diet, we cut down the alcohol, sugar, there's certain other lifestyle things that are really important. You mentioned sleep and that's a whole other thing because if you're stressed, it's hard to get the sleep regulated and we know how to do that. But there's some other things that are really important. What are the favorite techniques or tools for discharging stress? Because my view is we can't eliminate stress from our lives. It's coming at us, whether we like it or not. But can we do a tai chi move on it? and actually not have it really overtake us. And how do we discharge that stress?

Tai Chi is a great way to do it, actually.

-All right, Tai Chi, okay. -What else?

Right, mindfulness activities, right? Meditation and yoga and just throughout all those practices, we get to recognize how crazy our mind is and how much it can be, you know- you- calling me crazy? -Thinking the wrong things that are making us really exhausted and wiped out. And so, you know, that's where the power of mindfulness and meditation is, is because it helps us really stop and identify these things that are taking us down the wrong path.

Absolutely. So the symbol, like I, you know, I've so much stress in my life over the years, and I've really learned techniques that I can use to change my physiological state, right? So I use like yoga, knee dress. I put on like headphones and lay down and have a guided relaxation for 20 minutes. I'll do meditation twice a day. I'll do yoga. I'll take a steam or a sauna and an ice bath. That literally changes all your hormones and adrenaline. I will get a massage sometimes. Oh, I love that. And exercise.

Bodywork. I love bodywork. It works very well for me. Acupuncture, hands-on bodywork, neuromuscular therapy, getting out in nature.

Yeah, nature. Right. And so all these things, taking a walk and, and exercise particularly is important. So when I think about exercise, I'm like, what? Well, we never really exercise. We were hunter-gatherers. We'd like, we'd like run from a tiger, you know?

Yeah.

And we do normal physical work. But when you, when you look at this, this book written by Robert Sapolsky, it's called, why zebras don't get ulcers. which is this whole research that he's done. He's a neurobiologist from Stanford. He's a crazy guy. But anyway, he studied the stress response in his book, why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers. He talks about the fact that they literally will run like crazy from the tiger or the lion or whatever, and then one of them gets killed and they all just go back to eating the grass. And they have this massive discharge of the stress response through exercise. and then they just can go relax while their whatever cousin is getting eaten and it doesn't bother them anymore. But we just have this chronic state of stress and we don't discharge it. So I know for me, exercise, I can be really stressed and I can go for a run or I can go bike ride and I come back and I just feel like I've literally burned off all the adrenaline.

Yeah, and I think other things that are really great for this from a lifestyle perspective are journaling. Writing down your thoughts and your concerns and your worries. the gratitude journal, really shifting our thought process. You know, sometimes we can shift our thought process on our own. Sometimes we need a little support to do that, whether it's a, you know, a health coach or a counselor or, you know, because we've got to work to change some of how we're, we're viewing the world around us is really important.

That is true. I think that's a very important point list. Because, because many of us have a habit of listening to our lower selves and not our higher selves. and you all know what I'm talking about. And so sometimes you just gotta, like, shut that lower self voice up and listen to that higher self that knows better. Yeah. And all of us struggle with that. I mean, included. I think it's. You have to learn to not let your mind run your life.

Absolutely.

It's. It's not always very friendly. There's a lot of negative self-talk and a lot of fear and understanding that. And meditation can be really helpful with that. journaling can be helpful. There's various kinds of approaches, life coaching. Let's talk about, we've talked about exercise, we talked about diet, we talked about sleep, we talked about stress reduction, we talked about getting out in nature. Let's talk about the role of nutritional supplements because we use that a lot in helping people to recover and partly because during times of stress you really get depleted in nutrition and nutritional supplements. And I remember reading this paper years ago about Kosovo, which was a war zone back in the 90s. And what they found was that the people who were in this chronic state of stress in this war zone had tremendously depleted magnesium. They literally collected their urine and they found the magnesium was just pouring out of them, which is the relaxation mineral.

Yeah, magnesium is wonderful. And when we're low in magnesium, we also feel more depressed. There's been interesting research on that too. So it becomes this this vicious cycle. And so magnesium we get a lot from our foods, our whole foods, but sometimes when there's been a lot of, when you've been going through this chronic stress period of time, sometimes we need to really give people extra magnesium. And so we use that a lot as a supplement. We use B vitamins, good quality methylated B complex, helps support the body during this time. We use a good multivitamin and just some of the basics. Sometimes we'll use things like adaptogens, ashwagandha.

So what are adaptogens?

Adaptogens are herbal substances that really help the adrenal glands to support them herbally. So, and they can, they call them adaptogens because they help us if we're overstressed, they can help us feel more calm. But if we're depleted, they can help support us so they can adapt to what we need in a sense, I guess.

I mean, they've been used even in and in space exploration, the Russians, these cosmonauts always took these adaptogens to help their stress resilience. And I personally take them because I live a fairly high stress life and I want to create as much resilience. So what are the top ones that we use?

Ashwagandha, rhodiola, Asian ginseng, Siberian ginseng. Yes, yeah. So those are really, supportive to the adrenal glands.

And.

There are, we sometimes will use things like licorice if somebody's really depleted in their adrenal glands. But you have to be a little careful if you're doing that on your own. If your adrenal glands aren't really low, sometimes that makes you feel more anxious. So that when you have to be a little bit more careful.

If you have low blood pressure, if you're dizzy when you stand up, if you have palpitations, then you probably will benefit from it.

Yeah, but it can definitely raise up the blood pressure. So if blood pressure, if you run a little high with blood pressure, you need to be careful with regular licorice.

So why don't we go into a few cases that you've had, because I think it's really instructive to learn about how this affects real people. The first one was a nurse, an ER nurse.

Yeah, so she was a 39 year old woman and she came to see me because she had fatigue. and she was frustrated because this was new to her. She had never really had a lot of fatigue in her life. She was a go-go person. She was a nurse and lots of energy, worked in the ER, really loved her job, and really got a lot of personal reward from her job. And so was really frustrated and concerned where she was feeling so tired. she didn't want to go to do her job anymore. And she would, it would overwhelm her now. And she, she couldn't really respond to some of the stresses at work as, as easily. And it, and she was feeling sad about that, you know, and concerned about that. And so she had seen her primary doctor who had said, well, maybe this is depression and should we start some medication? And she wasn't ready to do that. And she wanted to look at things a little bit of a different way. So she came to see and when we, you know, when we delve deeper, we found out that, you know, she was, she worked the evening shift, so she would work in the evenings. She would, she was kind of not always that careful with her diet. You know, she'd grab a couple cups of coffee, she'd grab some food here or there, she would eat in the cafeteria at work. So, you know, she tried to be healthy, but it wasn't the, the, you know.

I mean, when I made overnight shifts in the year, I would have like a quadruple espresso, a giant chocolate chip cookie and a half a pint of.

Ice cream, and I'd head to the.

ER, for my 11 at night to seven in the morning shift.

Yep, yep, yep. And so she'd gained some pounds. She'd gained like 20 pounds over the last couple of years. And so she was frustrated with that too. And she was so tired, she just couldn't exercise anymore. She didn't have the energy to get up in the morning and to exercise before she went on her shift. And then when she came home from work, she was feeling, she was more, she had a hard time calming down after the shift and getting a good night's sleep. And so she was having a hard time getting to sleep at night. She was feeling that, you know, that wired feeling at night when she needed to go to sleep. So we did her saliva test. We did the cortisol awakening response with saliva test. And what we saw is that the morning that cortisol awakening was low, she wasn't able to mount that cortisol response in the morning.

She was burnt out.

She was burnt out. Exactly. She was burnt out. and it was a little bit high in the evening. So, you know, I mean, you know, we talked a lot about, you know, just it just build, you know, it can build up with people, you know, they kind of have been just living their regular life and making it through and feeling fine and then it sort of just adds up over time, especially having a stressful job like that and not being able to, or not taking the time to take care of herself every day and calm down. So we really focused a lot on her lifestyle. She ended up shifting and starting to work more during the days. She was able to do that because she had been there long enough, so she was able to shift her time. She started getting up in the morning and doing some calming exercises, some meditation first thing in the morning. She started to pack her own food and bring her own food to work. we worked to clean up her diet, take away some of the caffeine for a period of time, really work to balance her blood sugar, you know, make sure she was getting that protein, healthy fat and fiber at every meal, you know, really some of the basics there. You know, we also gave her a little bit of the an herbal support that had some licorice and ashwagandha first thing in the morning just to help give her the energy for the day and a good B complex. and really focused on her getting outside and getting some sunshine in the morning and getting her exercise in. And we started sort of gentle with her exercise because she hadn't been doing very much and she was tired, but over time she was able to kick up the intensity and start to do more intense exercise.

I think that's an important point you bring up because a lot of people have adrenal exhaustion. They don't tolerate intense exercise. They just can't. cause when you're exercising, it's like you're, you've got to mount the stress response. It's very difficult for them. And I had a terrible flashback when you were talking about her because I, I worked in Idaho in this small town and worked as a family doctor, probably 80 hours a week, delivering babies on top of my regular schedule, off and up all night, ran the ER as well. You know, we had to rotate through a night or two a week. So we were, like, on the 24-hour shifts, and I had babies on top of that. And after like almost four years, I decided to stop working there and I took like a few months off and I was ready to go visit my friend and drive in my car with my family to go from like Idaho to California. And I literally, when I finished Rick, I literally could not pick myself up off the floor. I was so exhausted in such a deep and profound way. It took me like three months to recover.

Yeah.

And I didn't have chronic fatigue or anything back then, but I was just so burnt out and I thought, oh, you know, I'm a doctor and that stands for medical deity and sleep is an option. And I would just literally go for days with very little sleep.

I mean, I was the same way. I feel like I've learned the most about this whole HPA axis on myself. Yeah. Because I've been burnt out a bunch of times. And the biggest one was after I went through all my cancer treatment and I had my two kids, You know, I finished all the treatment, then I had my two kids. And, and it was kind of like at the end of that whole process where I had gone through all the treatment when I was 30, and then actually had two children, which is exhausting for the body. And then I was the same way I was I was just burnt out. And, you know, you know, there's nobody, especially when people go to the doctor, there's often not a lot that's that's that can or that happens conventionally. You know, we're just not training our physicians sometimes, I think, to recognize that. And so we often go to the depression place first, right? Or the medication place first, where it's just we really need to have that time of self-care and shifting our mind process and everything.

So the first case was sort of like a, in a way, a physiological problem. It was her schedule, it was her rhythm of her life. and it was some of her bad habits. But the next case is a woman who really suffered from psychological trauma. And we know that adverse childhood experiences we call ACEs are highly linked to this chronic stress or PTSD, which is an extreme version of it. And that sometimes it's very difficult for people to get out of that state of alarm or hyper vigilance that comes from being in an unsafe or unstable environment they grew up in, whether it's an alcoholic or abusive parent or financial insecurity or worse, you know, people grew up in war zones. And so we don't really do a good job with helping people with that in medicine. So tell us about this young woman who really suffered in this way and how you helped her to reset not only her biology but her mind.

Yeah, I mean, so she was 28 when she came to see me and the reason she came in was her digestion. she was frustrated with her irritable bowel, right? So she had a lot of digestive issues, bloating, cramping, diarrhea, and she was anxious. And as we delved into things, I mean, we did, of course, clean up her diet and help her with some digestive issues, but really, as we delved into things, we realized and we learned that this was more her hormone balance in her body and that HPA axis. She had an abusive, her father was an alcoholic and her mom just living with her father being an alcoholic, her husband being an alcoholic, you know, had a lot of stress in her life. And so she often overreacted with her kids, which we see, right? And she was, you know, just not to blame her, but she often overreacted. And we know that that impact, we know that how the mom reacts impacts the kids and their offspring, even when they're a fetus, but definitely when they're young too, and when the mom overreacts, then the kids learn to overreact in that same way. And so, and of course, the stress and trauma with her dad. And, you know, she was very successful. She had a good job, but sort of she had She was just feeling anxious all the time, feeling anxious all the time. And that anxiety was kind of going into her, her diet, you know, this diarrhea that she had, this urgency that she had. And she would, she tried to, she knew she was anxious and she knew she needed to calm down her body. But when she did some breath work or meditation, she couldn't shut down her mind. And so it just wasn't, she would say, I just can't do it. we get that all the time with our patients, right? They say, oh, I just can't, I can't, I can't shut down my mind. Meditation doesn't work for me. So, so, you know, that was when she came in, we did that, the saliva test.

Yeah.

And what we saw is her levels were high. So she was still in that just high cortisol through the day. So her body was, you know, just continually pumping out a lot of excess cortisol and and that was making her feel really anxious and unsettled inside and contributing to her overall health. So then we got more information. She was, you know, having-- she was also a two to three cup coffee in the morning. She often skipped breakfast. She skipped her lunch many times or just grabbed whatever she could. And so we really worked in many aspects to work with her. We have a woman Suda who works in our clinic and works with people to teach them mindfulness, different exercises in meditation. And I think that can be really helpful. You know, there's a lot of great apps out there. But sometimes people need a little more hand holding than that. And so, you know, I had her work with with with Suda, who works in our clinic, and, and that was very helpful. She worked with her for a long period of time, but just to do some regular weekly meditation sessions together. And sometimes- Sometimes you need a little.

Help from somebody else.

-Yeah, you know.

-Energy work, breath work.

-Yeah, I had her work with a Reiki specialist as well, because many times some of those ACEs, those adverse childhood experiences get stuck, that trauma gets stuck in our body. And energy work, like Reiki, really can be helpful at releasing some of that stuck energy.

Stuck.

Oh, my goodness. Stuck trauma, which is important sometimes to we have to get let go of.

Well, it's interesting right now, there's a lot of research going on around psychedelics and stress and trauma. And in fact, just a couple of days ago, published in JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association, Psychiatry, I think there was a study on psilocybin, which is mushrooms called magic mushrooms. that was four times as effective as antidepressants. And it's used for PTSD, for war veterans, for people who have cancer. And it's not legal yet. There are a lot of research trials going on, so sometimes people can get enrolled. I think Oregon just legalized it for therapy, which is amazing. There are states which have decriminalized it as well. So it's really, I think, going to be an emerging therapy often works really well to help break down that sense of fear and separateness that makes us stay in this chronic state of trauma. So, you know, we're learning a lot about how to deal with trauma, and there's so many different techniques. And I think what you underscored was that, you know, often the doorway into healing from chronic stress is through your body, not just your mind, through your diet, exercise, circadian rhythms, the right supplements, various kinds of stress reduction techniques, meditation, yoga, Reiki, whatever. Maybe even some of these newer therapies that are being used out there, like psychedelic assisted therapy. And I think that we, you know, we're sort of on the verge of, I think, a real breakthrough and understanding how to help people with this because it is so rampant. And I think now, given the phase of the world and covet and the economy and politics and yada, yada, yada, it's like enough already. And I think, you know, I think all us feel it.

Yeah.

And I think it's, it's really important for us to learn how to manage our stress response. And I often say, you know, we think the opposite of stress is relaxation. But I, I think for most people, relaxation is like, I'm gonna sit and have a beer and watch football or watch my sitcom. That's not relaxation. We're talking about an active process of relaxation, so it's actually active, right? And it can be meditation or yoga, other things. And I think these are really things that people can access that are available to us at mostly free. And for people who are really struggling, there are sometimes a need for more advanced therapies. And in functional medicine, we do the cortisol testing, we do all these other therapies. We can address the underlying physiological causes of stress, whether they're heavy metals or infection or allergies. And also, I think we understand that sometimes people need some adrenal support. And, and for very few patients over my career, I've used very, very low dose hydrocortisone, which is a treatment that's not normally used in traditional medicine, but can really help rescue people from this complete state of, of crash until we sort of build them up. So I think there's just a lot of options for people, and I encourage people to check it out. Come to the ultra Wellness Center. We're seeing patients virtually now. We're at ultrawellnesscenter.com. Liz, you've been doing this forever and so have I. And, you know, it's really gratifying to see these patients. I should give them the guardrails and teach them how their bodies work that they can learn how to do this. And for me, if I didn't have these tools, I'd be a mess right now because, you know, I've had so much stress in my life and I've learned how to actually discharge the stress so I can actually function and have a good life. Hey, YouTube, if you like this video, you're going to love the next one. Click on it to check it out today.

Step number one is you get rid of the term mental illness and you.

Call these things what they really are brain health issues that steal your mind.

Get your brain right and your mind will follow. So, the end of mental illness really.