4 Herbs Everyone Tapering Benzodiazepines Should Know About | Ep. 72 (Audio Only)

Welcome to the Holistic Inner Balance podcast with Dr. Nicole Cain and Happy healthy Hadley.

Your go to resource for natural mental health and wellness strategies so that you can become the expert of your own emotional and physical well being.

Merging modern science with ancient wisdom. Welcome back to the Holistic Inner Balance Podcast. Today we are going to dive into the depths of Dr. Kane's brain and medical wisdom and we're going to talk about four herbs you need to know when tapering off benzodiazepines. So if you are trying to get off benzos, this is the podcast for you. Let's get into it. What are our, what is the first herb that you want to talk about today? Dr. Cain?

The number one herb that anyone who's dealing with benzodiazepines or even protracted effects of benzodiazepines needs to know about is Avenus Ativa.

Can you tell us a little bit about what protracted effects of benzodiazepines are first?

Absolutely. So we think about there's different stages of benzodiazepine use and for those who are brand new to benzodiazepines is I'm really happy that you haven't had to deal with the journey of benzodiazepine use. They're a category of medications that are anxiolytic, meaning they cut down on anxiety. They do that by increasing gaba, It's a relaxing neurotransmitter in the brain. And these medications are prescription only. And so maybe you've heard of Xanax or Ativan or Valium. These medications are prescribed for seizures, sleep, anxiety, pain. And while they are incredibly effective at treating those things, the symptoms of those things, not the root cause. Right. But the symptoms of those things, they have a major trade off in that they're incredibly habit forming. They're very difficult to get off of. And so when we're thinking of the journey of benzodiazepine use, we have prescription actively taking the benzodiazepine and then there's side effects and symptoms and then gaps where we go through withdrawal and we have to take more. And then we have people who are withdrawing or tapering down. And then we have protracted withdrawal, which is somebody who's struggling with the effects of having used a benzodiazepine even years later after having stopped use of the benzodiazepine. And so some people, withdrawal can last days, but some other people, they can suffer for years and years and years.

Wow. Okay. So this is the herb. This is the herb that you need.

If that's happening, this is the herb. This is the herb that you need. And so avenus sativa. And so this plant has been well researched for its efficacy in helping people who are giving up addictive substances, including benzodiazepines, opiates, tobacco. It's an amazing plant. And in one study, they used avena extract and they used a milliliter several times a day. And they actually found that there are statistically significant benefits in tobacco smokers who are trying to quit smoking in ease of tapering, ease of the side effects, less cravings and greater success in the long term. They found that it was really helpful. And so then they did another study where they looked at opium addiction. And so they had. It was a very small study. There were six addicts who completely quit, and two had reduced their use, and two had completely stopped. And the other two were still trying to actively deal with if they wanted to quit or not. And so whether or not avena sativa decreased the cravings, they actually found that people had more strength and resiliency to the nervous system, which was measured by withdrawal symptoms, like typical opiate withdrawal symptoms. And so, like blood pressure changes, vitals, like pulse, respiratory rate, digestive, you know, all of those metrics improved in individuals, regardless of where they were on their opium tapering journey. They were all experiencing better metrics.

That's so cool. Oh, my gosh. So my mind is blown. This is really cool.

Why doesn't everybody know about this plant?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

So the way that the eclectics describe avena sativa is it ups the amperage of the nervous system so that we can carry more voltage. It energizes the nervous system so that it can do the things that you're asking it to do, especially when we think of chronic prescription use, is that it's demanding more and more and more from your body. Produce more gaba, produce more whatever it is that you're producing.

Right?

So benzos or gaba, if you're using serotonin medications like an antidepressant, it's demanding produce more serotonin opiates, same thing. We're just flooding the opiate receptors, and then that causes a cascade of changes in the brain and the body, and it just depletes us. And so then we need more and more and more. And avenus ativa, it's just like flooding your nervous system with energy to do what it needs to do. So they talk about upping your. Your amps. The other things, though, that avena sativa does is it is the chief trophorestorative. Tropho is brain restorative, is the restoration of the brain. So it's energizing your nervous system not in a way to create anxiety or stress, but to enable it to do what it needs to do to heal. And it's also nourishing the brain, nourishing the nerve cells.

And we need that so much. So many of the things that we take are like extraction processes. We need the nourishing.

We need the nourishing. And, you know, I feel like, especially with my clients who are dealing with benzos, is the nervous system is so reactive.

Yeah.

To everything. Like, they have a cup of coffee, and their nervous system is going to react to the caffeine in that cup of coffee completely differently than it would have 20 years ago for them. And so I have people who will take, like, magnesium, and as a result of the benzodiazepine use, they have just wild aggravations on the magnesium. And so a lot of these people are suffering with a completely dysregulated, inflamed, agitated nervous system. And so one of the things that we have to do is we have to actually go in and heal the nervous system. But pharmacologically, we don't have anything for healing the nervous system. It's just time and mindfulness and meditation. But we want to, like, go in and nourish it. A metaphor is like sunburn. You know, you go out in the sun and you get this wicked, terrible sunburn. This is the metaphor. So you have damage to the skin. It's inflamed, it's damaged. And normally if someone pokes you, you're fine with it. But when you have a sunburn and someone bumps you, it's like you get. You get mad, it hurts. You're in a lot of pain. And so it's the same thing with the nervous system of somebody who's a benzo warrior is that little things cause great amplitude. It creates a lot of suffering. And so just like aloe vera on a sunburn nourishes and heals and restores your skin, so you could heal faster. You know, time is good, too, but why not expedite that process as avenus sativa is to the nervous system, it is allo. To the skin.

Wow. I love that. That is a great analogy to think about. Yeah.

And it's a delicious plant. I actually thought about bringing it in for our conversation today so we could both taste it and try it.

Oh, awesome. Yeah.

She's a wonderful plant. And so you can get a Venus Ativa in a tea, you can buy it as a glycerite. A glycerite is where you pull the active ingredients out of the plant and there's like a whole process for that where we use a mixture of alcohol and water and we actually pull the active ingredients out of the plant and then we can turn it into a glycerite, which is where it tastes like more sweet and there's no alcohol left in it. We process it out. And so I love using solid extracts or glycerites especially. Somebody's in recovery from alcohol or they, for whatever reason, can't have alcohol. Alcohol can also be inflammatory. Even alcohol tinctures. Yeah. So you could get it as a tea, you could get it as a tincture, you could get it as a solid extract or a glycerite, and it can be pretty effective. But my favorite way is to do it as a liquid. And I use tinctures all the time. They keep for a really long time. They have a really long shelf life. And you can really control the dosage when you're using something like a tincture versus a tea. Like you have the avena sativa oat straw herb in a tea bag and you soak it. 10 minutes of soaking is different than 12 minutes of soaking. And the temperature of the water is going to make a big difference. So you want to have control. So tincture. So what you want to do is I have tinctures here at the office. I love to use like professional formulas, which you probably. Actually we have some Cochicola here that we can try.

Oh, fun.

Which is one of our future herbs. So we'll try it together. I have it. It just sits in my office. Because why not be surrounded by these fun herbs? Is you want to get the tincture. And so I'm thinking like herb farm, Wise woman herbals. I'm thinking Mountain rose herbs, professional formulas. I have no affiliations with any of these companies. I just love them. And get your tincture, shake it up, make sure that everything is all mixed up appropriately and then start with one drop. One drop, Like a teeny tiny drop. Put it in some water, drink it, and then just wait 24 hours. And for some people, that's enough to feel it.

Wow.

Versus somebody else may have like three big squeezes every single day for six months and not feel it.

Hahaha. That would probably be me. It takes a lot for me to feel it.

Yeah. You're like, how about More. Bring it on. I love that level of control though, with tinctures and drop dosing and you can get a liquid glycerite and do the same thing. But tinctures tend to be, they're just really potent and easy to control and I like that. So if you're listening to this and your doctor gives you the green light for Avenus ativa and you're wondering how to use it, if you tend to react to all of the things, then one drop, one time in water would be a really good start. And then if you notice nothing, then the next day do two drops. If you still notice nothing, then the next day increase and so slowly start to increase. The thing with Avenus sativa is that she's a slow acting herb. So generally speaking, this plant won't start to create appreciable benefit for six weeks.

Okay.

So a lot of people, you know, you're used to taking a Xanax and then you're like asleep on the couch immediately.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, it takes like, you know, five minutes for most people to kick in. Five to 15. Some people, if they're taking a sublingual quick release, it's really, really fast, almost immediate. But herbs tend to be a little bit different. While they can have immediate effects, for some people, generally they really hit their stride at six weeks.

Okay, that's good to know.

Give it time.

Yes.

On the other end of the spectrum, so we have the one drop one time and then wait 24 hours and then slowly increase. On the other end of the spectrum, if you've tried all of the things and you feel nothing, you're more on like the Hadley end. It's like give me all of is a general dose would be like three big squeezes five times a day.

Oh, wow. Okay.

A big squeeze is an equivalent to a dropper full, which is like 30 drops or a mil. And I like to mix it in hot water or tea or, you know, juice, anything. And again, this isn't really, this is a yummy tasting plant. So it shouldn't be.

Not too bitter.

Not too bitter. Yeah, exactly. So it's really good. And so I want to just read a couple of other things about Avena sativa and then we'll do the contraindications before we go to our next herb.

Sounds great.

So in addition to drug recovery and addiction, recovery and withdrawal, recovery and restoring strength to the nervous system, Avena sativa, according to literature, also stimulates the sense of well being in the brain and in the body. It has an Ability to stimulate the limbic system. And that's important in the brain, like your amygdala, the feel good part of your brain, your hippocampus, like. All these parts of the brain benefit from Avena Sativa. And oftentimes with benzodiazepine use, we see withdrawal, anxiety, major depression, and Avena Sativa can help all of those. The contraindications is that Avena could theoretically antagonize the effect of morphine.

Oh, interesting.

As in demonstrated in my studies. So we haven't really done experimental studies with Avena sativa and morphine use in humans, but that's why it's important to talk to your doctor. And if your doctor doesn't know, find a doctor who does.

Yes.

And then make sure it's right for you. And you might find. Find that if you're trying to withdraw with opiates, that if you're using really high doses of Avenus sativa, it might be a little bit more relaxing and sedating. And so it may add to the effect of the opiate, but that's part of how it also helps with the withdrawal on the taper.

That's so cool.

It's so cool.

Avenus Sativa.

Avena sativa.

Our new best friend.

Our new best friend. I love it.

All right, what's the next one?

So the next one is ginkgo biloba. Mmm. A lot of people are familiar with ginkgo biloba as an herb that's great for memory and for the brain.

So good.

It has other effects, too. So we see that there are active ingredients in these herbs, and the active ingredients are called constituents. Constituents are what do the effects, the magic, the things that we desire come from the constituents that are present in the herbs. And so we have. In ginkgo, we have flavone glycosides and terpene lactones. And you can isolate these, we can extract them out and potentize them, and they can have really pretty amazing effects on the brain. A couple of things that ginkgo biloba will be doing for the benzodiazepine warrior is it increases blood flow to the brain. So it helps. It helps with improving memory, it helps with increasing blood flow, it heals brain tissue because it also helps pull out oxidative stress from the brain.

What? That is so cool.

It's an antioxidant. It has an affinity for the brain. It's also really good for the eyes, as an aside, is that it increases vascular flow or blood flow to the brain and to the Retina and to the eyes. And so I love using this, especially in my benzo warrior, who have this, like, feeling of kind of brain fogginess and where their vision is just not quite sharp or they feel like they're kind of in a fog.

Totally. Like a murkiness, no clarity.

Yeah, exactly. A murkiness, no clarity. It's a great, great description of ginkgo biloba's zone of genius. This plant is also really good at blood sugar utilization. And we see that as an issue in people who are benzo warriors, because we know that benzodiazepines increase gaba. When you're withdrawing from gaba, your body is more stressed, so your body releases cortisol, stress hormone, and cortisol causes blood sugar to be released, because you gotta release all the sugar when you're stressed.

To run from bear.

Yeah, yeah. And so then the fake bear. The fake bear.

Yeah.

And so we want a solution that can help counteract the effects of high blood sugars. So ginkgo biloba optimizes our metabolism and utilization of glucose, and it also stabilizes the membranes in your body. And so membranes surround every cell, every neuron. And when those are inflamed or when they don't have the right components, we get symptoms head to toe, Whether it be energy patterns or muscle soreness or zapping and shooting of the nerves or anything like that, that all relates to the membrane around the cells. And so ginkgo biloba actually nourishes those and stabilizes that, so it can have all these effects head to toe. It's an antioxidant. Like we said, it increases oxygen utilization, which is really interesting for certain viruses that may have caused a pandemic around.

That will not be named this era.

Where we were seeing a ton of oxidative damage, because one of the effects of the virus is that it knocks the oxygen molecule off of the cell. So the cells become hypoxic. They don't have oxygen. So we can't eat and use the oxygen. But then the oxygen molecules are just flying around the system, causing oxidative damage. Ginkgo biloba can counteract those effects.

Oh, cool. So does it bind to the oxygen, to the free radicals, then?

Yes.

Amazing.

Yeah, it's amazing. It nourishes your. Your tissues, it nourishes your nerve cells. It decreases the risk of blood clots, which is also important post certain viruses, is that we see a lot of post viral clotting.

Oh, yeah.

Which is a contraindication. So if you're somebody who bruises really easily, or if you're taking a blood thinner like Coumadin or, you know, aspirin or something like that, you want to talk to your doctor to make sure. It would have to be a pretty decent dose of ginkgo for most people to see. See that effect. It's not like a. An active blood thinner, but it can increase bruising. And so that's one thing to be mindful of. It's also really good at helping the side effects, the sexual side effects of antidepressants. So we're talking about benzos, but one of the ways that they often help us taper off of benzos is giving antidepressants like an ssri, which can cause sexual dysfunction. And ginkgo is so good at treating that.

How. So how does it do it?

Oh, this is really good. Okay, so there was a study that was published in 2008, so it's kind of an older study. And so they gave people 40-60mg of ginkgo twice a day. And they saw that erectations. Erectations is a belch. Erections improved, and they saw that sexual desire improved. And a couple ways that it does that is it increases blood flow to your organs and your sexual organs, and it can also help counteract some of the effects of hypoxia to those organs. So you feel more stimulation, some of those more like yummy, delicious feelings, more engorgement of the blood vessels because you're getting better blood flow. It's really, really amazing. Another study on cognitive testing, they did 320 milligrams, and some people got 600 milligrams of ginkgo biloba extract. And they took it one hour before cognitive testing. And at both levels of supplementation, they found that all of the people had statistically significant improvement in cognitive processing. They repeated this study with people who had Alzheimer's disease and memory impairment, and they gave 40 milligrams of a similar standardized extract, and they saw after 12 to 24 weeks of supplementation, significant cognitive improvements. So it shows that it can work in the moment, like an hour before, or it can have an accumulative benefit over time.

Okay, so you don't have to wait six weeks for this one.

Yeah, yeah, it works amazingly. It can work incredibly quickly. So it's good for benzo tapering in brain fog, like we were talking about. It's really good. If you're also on an antidepressant and you're having a hard time with your libido and your sex life. It's also safe to combine with antidepressants and benzodiazepines, which is a huge concern that a lot of people have. But then there's the contraindications of the blood thinning. So, you know, we definitely want to be careful about that. Also to keep in mind is menstrual cycles. So we think of like bruising, like I walked into something and now I have a bruise. But if a woman has a really heavy menstrual cycle where they just hemorrhage, ginkgo might not be the first herb. Or if you take ginkgo, then also combined it with something that's more astringent. And Hadley had. There's an amazing interview that we have on heat and Hadley talks about astringents. We also talk about it in our ayurvedic course. So, yeah, there's some really cool stuff for that. But if you have excess bleeding, then maybe ginkgo might not be the right fit. You might have to add other herbs in there, but it's generally a really safe, low risk herb.

Awesome. Yeah. Take a look at our Ayurveda mini course if you want to learn more about the astringents and how that works.

So good.

Okay, cool. So we've got our first two. What's the third one? What's the third herb?

Oh, I have some centella, so I'm going to grab it. So you guys are going to hear a little bit. So I want to pass this. I have. So I'm going to pass this to Hadley. And so I want you to smell gotu kola. And so it does. We're gonna, we're gonna quiz Hadley and I want you to guess what this does for vata. Pitta, kapha.

Ooh, so good.

Okay.

It's definitely bitter smelling.

It's bitter. Yep.

So that's gonna be good for pitta and kapha and it's going to be probably not as good for vata. Is that right? Is it astringent too? I don't think it's astringent.

It's not astringent, is it?

It's. It sort of smells a little bit sweet.

It's sweet. Oh, you're so good.

So that would be better for. For vata. It would probably be so sweet. Is good for pitta and vata, not as good for kapha. So it seems like this is gonna be amazing for pitta. That's like the number one. And then.

Ah, man, I love this game.

This is really fun. We should do more of this, more guessing the doshas. Okay, so it's gonna be good for pitta. And then, I don't know, it seems like there's kind of a lot of sweet.

There's sweet in there, so it's probably.

Gonna be good for vata. And from deductive reasoning, vata is a lot of times related to anxiety. So if this is gonna be good for anxiety, I'm gonna guess that it's also gonna be good for vata.

Ding, ding, ding. The audience cheers. It is. It's bitter, cooling, sweet, and it's tridoshic. It's an equalizer. Nice.

Okay. Yeah, cooling too. Pitta, pitta, pitta, pitta. So many pitta.

We'll taste it later. We'll do a little tasting later.

Yes.

I love it. If you don't want to hold it. Yeah. I love gotu kola. The other name for this plant is centella. And this plant has an affinity for all of the tissues except for the reproductive tissues. So ginkgo is more for reproductive tissues, especially sexual enhancement. But gotu kola, on the other hand, is good for everything else. It's good for your nervous system, it's good for your circulation, it's good for your gastrointestinal tract, it's amazing for your respiratory tract, it's amazing for your musculoskeletal system. This plant is incredible. It's one of the best longevity herbs that we have. And so anything anti aging this plant, generally speaking, can optimize. So when we're thinking about the effects of medications, it depletes us, it breaks us down, it draws out our vitality. And you and I talk about bliss and longevity and vital resiliency and gotu kola gives us all of that.

Amazing. Yes.

All in this beautiful plant, this one beautiful plant here. So the parts used are the ariel parts. And it's sweet, it's tasty. And this is an alcohol extract. So if you did it as a glycerite, it would be a very sweet tasting glycerite.

Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. And it's cool that it has the sweet and the bitter because the bitter is kind of, kind of like taking stuff out usually. And then the sweetness is nourishing and building, so it does both.

She's a rejuvenative.

Yes.

And so like anything that rejuvenates the body.

Yeah.

And in ayurvedic indications with the research is what we're finding, backed up in research is that it helps with nervous disorders, epilepsy, premature aging. It's good for hair loss.

Oh, interesting.

So good for hair loss. And benzodiazepines can cause really problematic hair loss. It's also good for stubborn skin conditions. So, like, a lot we talked about pitta in another podcast that you and I did with like that red hot irritating. But then you can have kapha skin too, which I imagine I'm theorizing because this isn't my zone of genius, but I'm kind of theorizing that it would be like damp, sticky skin conditions. Thick, thick like cradle cap.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

So this is really good for all of that. It says in the literature. It says it is a particularly revitalizing herb for the nerves and brain cells. It increases intelligence, longevity, memory, decreases senility and aging. It cleanses and feeds the adrenal glands, the nervous system, and the immune system. It's also a powerful blood purifier, and it helps with symptoms that are due to medication tapering, medication withdrawal. And she's incredible for anxiety. So can I tell you about a study?

Yes, please.

So there is a double blind placebo controlled trial that included 40 air quote normal individuals. And they were looking to see if it had any effect on anxiety. In an indirect way. It would have been best to find people who were incredibly anxious, but they were just looking at normal people. What they did is they used an acoustic startle response. This is where you hear a sudden loud noise or something that shocks or startles you. And then they looked at blink rate. They found that more than half of the participants in the study who were given 12 grams of ginkgo or go to cola were actually statistically significantly less easily startled compared to the people who received a placebo.

So I need to start taking this. I get very startled by loud noises.

Yeah. I have a friend who I'm thinking of and his wife lives in the house. And just by appearing in a room.

I was just talking about this with my husband literally last night. He's like, I will walk into a room. She knows I'm here, she knows I'm in the house. But she jumps whenever I walk into a room.

He does that too. So you both need centella, you need Gotu cola, Clearly. So you have this like hyperactive startle response. Yes. And so it's kind of handy. Like, we've done other research showing that it can help reduce anxiety if your anxiety is higher, but just the fact that it can just like, make your nervous system, system less reactive to begin with. Is very protective and very preventative.

Totally. It allows you to respond rather than react. So good.

Respond rather than react. I love that they've used this plant in developmentally delayed children, which is awesome. This plant is safe in adults and children. And they found that after 12 weeks, children had better attention and were better able to concentrate. And so we just see so much value for all of the things having to do with your brain.

So cool. Okay, what are the contraindications?

Contraindications would be somebody who is actively dealing with opiates, someone who's actively taking blood pressure, or not blood pressure, but blood thinning medications. And there isn't really much research on pregnancy and lactation, so it's hard to say with that. So, you know, given all of these herbs, some people actually. A lot of midwives will actually use avena sativa in pregnancy and lactation, and that it can be really helpful for anxiety. But with all of these herbs, pregnancy and lactation just aren't. We don't do research experiments on pregnant people. So that's the number one thing that I would think of for that is, like, if you're on an opiate or if you're on a blood thinner or if you're pregnant or lactating is talk to your doctor first.

Totally. Yeah. Cool. Okay, so Gotu Cola.

Go to Cola. Go to Cola.

I might have to become friends with Gotu Cola. My. My pitta might need it.

We're gonna take some today. So when we finish up this podcast. Well, we. For all y' all who are listening, Hadley and I have started a tradition where we try herbs in my office.

Yeah.

We're like, what are we feeling today? Like, I think last time we were together, we had some gentian. Some gentian. And maybe. Maybe we gave you some ginkgo. I don't remember what we had.

I think we had some gotu kola last time. We mixed a couple things.

We had fun.

It was so fun.

Get to know your herbs, my friends. Yeah. Go away.

Switch out your alcohol shots for herb shots.

Seriously. And if you do, like, a tincture, you're getting a little alcohol in there anyway.

True.

It's fine. It's herbal.

It's herbal. I love it. Evolve the party, people.

Party.

This is how botanists hang.

Yeah. Yeah. Really? I love it. Okay, so what is our fourth and final herb?

So if you're taking benzodiazepines, if you are dealing with the effects of benzodiazepine withdrawal, if you are in protracted withdrawal, you must know about Passiflora or passionflower.

Passionflower.

She's sweet, she's anti anxiety, she's nourishing, she's an antioxidant. It's. It's a flower, it's safe, it's gentle. I love passion flower. We'll taste some passion flower today too. So we'll go in there, we'll do a little brain boosting recipe. But let's talk about passion flower in more detail, shall we?

Yeah, let's do it.

So specific indications and uses is irritation of the brain and the nervous system. And it's really good for people who have insomnia, irritability, anxiety, sleeplessness from overwork.

Yeah, it's all pitta stuff. Flowers, everything. Like floral things, all pitta.

So this is like, this is the pitta plant. Like if you're pitta, get some pasiflora and think about it later.

Yes. Flowers will. Almost every flower will balance pitta. It's so awesome and it's soothing and it's. If you smell a flower, you're not gonna be angry, right?

You'll be like, that was nice.

Yeah, yeah. That like, felt.

To inhale, I had to regulate my breath. I had to notice my sense. It stimulates my brainstem. The effect of the flower.

Exactly. Yes.

This is also really good for, which is a pitch. A thing is if you're overworked in your job, if you're a student and you're dealing with finals, or if you just like feel super burned out, this is an amazing plant for you.

And it's a different anxiety than vata anxiety too. It's like an anxiety that comes from overwork rather than an anxiety that comes from just like the energy dispersing and going everywhere. So it's slightly different. So I like how you, you talked.

About that and you described it perfectly. I have right here anxiety from overwork in my notes.

Yes. Yeah, it's like, it's like a narrow anxiety of I need to get all of the things done.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Eclectics considered Pulse Passiflora to be really good for people who are also really debilitated and depleted. So it's really interesting. So it can be great for this acute, frustrated pitta kind of burnout state. But what's lovely is the versatility of these plants, which is so different than pharmaceuticals, which are like zeroing in on one metabolic effect primarily. But these plants have these different ingredients, these different constituents that can affect healing in a lot of different ways. And so they used it a lot in the elderly traditionally so people who were just depleted and they just needed their brains and their bodies to be nourished. But in that state of depletion, there was like restlessness, insomnia, anxiety, but it wasn't like a full bodied energy, vital restlessness, insomnia. It was like a depleted week.

Totally. Oh my gosh. This is. You're. You're speaking to all of my clients essentially, and me, what I used to experience, it was like. Well, I know I am like, you know, overwhelmed and so depleted, but I also have so much stimulation going on. Yeah, it was like, I know I need to move my body more, but I also need to rest more. Yes. Yeah, exactly.

That's Passiflora. Yeah, that's Passiflora in a nutshell. And it's really cool because it helps with improving nervous system function, it improves circulation, it nourishes the brain and the body, it regulates sleep, wake cycles. It is a little bit of a sedative. And so it's good to use before bedtime because it can help with sleep. So if you have a, a restless kiddo, you can give them paciflow glycerite. I love it in kids and I feel like that's something we can talk more about is what herbs are great for kids. And all the ones that we've talked about today are totally appropriate for kids too.

Oh, awesome.

Hopefully we're not dealing with kids who are tapering from benzos. But win, win. A little. A little bit of this for me and a little bit of this for Susie.

Great.

Yes. Aww.

The drug interactions. So pestiflora, again, all of these, they could be a problem if you're taking anticoagulants. Again, like Coumadin. There is a slight anticoagulant potential in Passiflora, but significantly less than ginkgo.

Oh, okay.

So a little bit.

So talk to your doctor.

Talk to your doctor. It can also have an additive sedative effect. And so if you're taking any sedatives, it can be sedating. And so then you want to think about like, we don't want to have a Whitney Houston thing where we're like sedating on sedating on sedating. So talk to your doctor about it, make sure that it's safe. But I use it in benzo withdrawal all the time because as you're bringing down your benzos, you're getting less sedating effects of your benzos. And then we have people with insomnia and so pathological, the flora can create a bridge, can Fill that gap.

So cool.

And barbiturates. Don't take it with. With barbiturates, but those are almost never prescribed anymore. So I don't think a lot of people listening will say, like, oh, that's a problem for me.

Awesome. Okay, cool. So we've got all four of our herbs that you gotta know. You gotta know if you're tapering off of benzos and even if you're not, like, these are awesome herbs. I know.

I feel like we're gonna. When we finish up this podcast, we're gonna go make a shot and it's gonna have avena sativa and ginkgo biloba. It's gonna have gotu cola and a little pasta flora. And I think we should mix it in equal parts.

Okay.

And it's gonna be a little relaxing, but it's not gonna knock us out.

Perfect.

It's gonna be great for the brain, great for the heart, the circulation, lift.

The mood, Give us some mental clarity.

All of the clarity.

Yes.

It's gonna be great.

Let's go do it.

Let's go do that. So, everyone, thanks for listening. We have places to go and herbs to see.

Thanks, everyone. We'll see you on the next one. Bye.

Bye.

The recording you just listened to to consists of the personal opinions of Dr. Nicole Cain, a naturopathic doctor with a master's in clinical psychology, and Happy Healthy Hadley, an Ayurveda expert with a master's in health behavior and health education. While these opinions are based upon literature, counseling education, medical training, and clinical experience, this content should not be viewed as the definitive opinion on the subjects. Listening to this podcast is not a substitute for any sort of medical, psychological.

Or other form of treatment.

If you are in a Crisis, please call 911-OR call the National Suicide Prevention Line at 1-800-273-8255. If you are in need of counseling.

Don'T hesitate to make an appointment with.

A counselor in your area. Dr. Nicole and has are passionate about you becoming the expert of your own emotional and physical well being. If this resonates with you and you think this podcast would help someone you love, please share it with them. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the Holistic Inner Balance Podcast.