A Holistic Approach to Clearer Skin (and Unleashing Your Inner Superhero) with Dr. DJ Sims | Ep. 95

Welcome to Holistic Inner balance. I am Dr. Nicole and this is Happy Hadly Hadley. We have Dr. Dejar K. Sims here and she is a guest. That was like a hands down no brainer request for Hadley and I and we're super pumped to have you here. So thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited too.

I want to introduce people to you. I'm just going to read your bio really quickly and then I already have 100,000 questions. So we're going to hit the ground running today, but this is going to be a conversation y' all aren't going to want to miss. If you have skin or know somebody who has skin, then this conversation is relevant for you. And we're going to get into the nitty gritty intersection of skin and mental health. And so meet our expert. Dr. D.J. is known as Dr. D.J. by her patients. She's a naturopathic physician, published author, She's a prolific speaker. She's also incredibly funny. She's the CEO and founder of Superhero Skin Care. She's virtual practice and her primary focus is on the non pharmaceutical treatment of acne, eczema, psoriasis and hair loss. She's been a speaker at medical conferences, she's spoken at Comic Con, she's been a keynote speaker and she is lively and energetic in part due to her training in improv comedy at the finest city in province, San Diego and Second City in Hollywood. And you're going to definitely want to check her out on her website and social media. She's an amazing presence to be seen. So if you have your device in your hand then go ahead and open up your browser. Go to www.herover skin care.com you can schedule a 15 minute free discovery call. And she also, in addition to all the other gloriousness, skin and beauty base, she has an herbal throat spray called Voice Restore and she has specifically formulated it for those who use their voice professionally as a living. Singers, speakers, actors, influencers. I'm talking to you. If you have to talk at all in your daily life, this might also be valuable for you. She's also on Instagram and that's my favorite favorite way to keep up with all the cool stuff that she's doing. And her handle is Dr. DJ Sims and Dr. Is spelled out so girl, I'm so pumped that we are finally reconnecting again here and today. Thank you for being here.

Yes, I'm so excited. Let's chat, let's talk, let's do all things skin.

I love that intro about, like, if you have skin. That's exactly.

I know, right?

I don't want to see people that don't have skin. I only want to see people with skin.

And I feel like that's the right decision, especially given, like, level of treatment severity. If you don't have skin, you need to be maybe in a hospital.

You need to be in the hospital. That's not what I do. I don't want to see.

And I. I hate that I have this bias for people with skin, but.

What do you, you know, what are you gonna do? We can't all be perfect at everything.

Let me give you some vitamin C for that.

Lack of skin. No, the lack of skin.

That's not how naturopathic medicine works.

It's definitely not how naturopathic medicine works. But if you do come up with a solution for skin free people, then you will make millions and millions of dollars. And remember this podcast as the origin. Origin of that idea.

I will always give you credit.

Always.

Thank you. I love it.

Oh, my gosh.

She's really funny.

We intersect in some funny ways too. So I knew you when you were DJ, and then you became Dr. Dejar Sims. And then you, I feel, like, embraced your djness instead of, like, feel like. I don't know what your experience was, but my experience coming out of our medical school was a little bit more, like, serious and masculine. And then I have sort of embraced, like, the unicorn. Shiny, quirky, silly, sparkly, but, like, really academically rigorous version of my doctor self. How's that been for you?

Oh, my gosh. That could be a whole other topic segment. It's hard to, like, marry your true self to your doctor self because I always kept that separate. Like, when I did improv, it was like, I'm doing improv and I'm DJ, and then I'm like, hello, I'm Dr. Sims. Dr. Jarak Sims.

You know, and I realized that I.

Was being that when sometimes the Dr.

Sims would mix, and then people will.

Be like, oh, what are you? What are you? Who are you?

What are. What is this person? I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, Dr. Hatt.

Let me take that off.

Sorry. And I'm like, how can I? Like, I'm these two people, and I.

Didn'T want to have this dual existence.

And so it's like, what does that.

Look like for me? Like, how can I present myself as.

This doctor and still be my silly self? Because it's not just like, she's funny.

Like, I'm kind of A goofball. And I'm really geeky and nerdy, and I'm like, how can I do that? How can I do. And so this, when you see on Instagram, is this morphing me morphing into.

Whoever I'm supposed to be online?

Because I'm still figuring out, like, how.

Do you be funny and not, like, lose your professionalism? Yeah, that's a big thing I love.

Yeah. I feel so good.

Worth being like this.

Like. And this is just kind of the intersection of me being a black woman, where you're carrying the weight of the world on your shoulder, where people like you are representing all people of color, and you have to be professional, and you cannot. And I'm like, but I'm. But I thought I'm kind of goofy. I. I have professionalism, but I can do that in a funny way. And then you get a lot of, like. Like backlash from that. Of like, oh, my gosh. But you're. But you have to represent us all and be, like, the certain thing, this picture of who you are. And so that's been. That's been a journey in itself. That's why I was, like, the outside of skin. That's a whole other, like, podcast topic. Like, finding who you are online and being your. Being your true, authentic self.

All right, all. If that's an interesting topic for you, then send us a message, and we'll get. We'll get D.J. and Dr. D.J. back on the podcast.

All of my mini selves.

Bring them all.

Only if I can do characters. Yes, definitely.

Please. Yes.

Only if I can do a minimum of three to five characters, and then that's fine.

Oh, my gosh.

I love it.

Well, my favorite one.

Do you have a favorite? Hold on.

Hold on is. My favorite character is always the woman.

Who strokes the cat.

We're all stroking our cats in the video.

Who is that person that, like, walks.

In the room and strokes a cat as she stares at you?

Cruella De Vil.

She's a villain.

Yes.

I love that villain era.

Except for Cruella would have a dog.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. I love it.

Well, I love that you bring in. I love that you have in your bio, you include the improv, because, I mean, it's so cool that you're bringing these things together and, like, well, and to spill the tea.

Dr. D.J.

Was my doctor. So up until, like, two years ago, and she was amazing. Like, love. So we have, like, all of these different things. I don't know Dr. D.J. through Dr. Kane. Like, I know her because she was my doctor. And then I found out that Dr. Kane also like knows her as well. So like just so many synchronicities. But just speaking to the fact that you do bring in that, with the professionalism, you still bring in that goofiness. Because my, my husband, we would always joke that he was like, like I would be on a, on a call with her, like just through, you know, the ethers, through this, through the media. Because it was Covid time so I wasn't going into the office and he would hear me in the other room just cracking up. Like for the whole hour that we were talking, you know, we're talking about like challenges that I'm going through with my skin and my health and all these things. And I'm just like laughing and having so much fun. And it's like my favorite part of the month was connecting with Dr. DJ. So I just love that you bring in both of those things. Thank you.

I mean, and that's one of the things that was really important to me.

Because having any type of skin disease, whether it's acne, eczema, psoriasis, especially hair loss as well, you have this sadness. When people come into me, they are devastating. They're depressed, they're sad. And I need to acknowledge that and connect with them. But at the same time, you have to like, get them out of it. Like what? Like, okay, we can't stay here because we have to, we have to move on and we have to heal. And in order to heal, you have to get out of this sadness, you have to get out of this depression. And so bringing in this part of me that's this like goofy side helps to lighten. This very heavy topic of my skin is holding me back. And so I love that you say that because that means at least I'm getting one thing right.

And I can go in more into.

That and know that it's actually helping people. So thank you for that.

Perfect.

Perfectly.

To our topic of today.

Yeah.

Hadley and I are like right here. We're like, oh yeah, this is where we're going is that intersection between our emotional well being and our skin and how they can have a bidirectional relationship with each other.

Yeah, it's so true. I mean the, the entire process, you can't separate. And I always, I used to tell people all the time when I was in School and Dr. King might remember, I was like, nope, don't do Melta health. Nope, nope, that's not my thing. I'm not good at that. I Don't do that.

And then I go. I'm like, I only do skin. I'm only. I see acne. I. I don't do women's health. Nope. I only do skin. Like, actually, Doctor.

Exactly.

I only do women. Tell them mental health, because the skin is just a byproduct of me fixing all the hormonal issues that the women are having or, you know, addressing the mental health issues that are exacerbate.

Exacerbating the skin issue.

So now I'm like, how funny is that? Like, I eat my words.

Oh, totally. I remember that you used to send me so many people because, so Hadley, doctor, DJ And I both ran rotations at the medical school from which we graduated. And so if Derm came in, I'm like, send him to dj and then if any mental health came in, she's like, cane. And so it was really fun. But it turns out that, I don't know, the world had the last laugh, I guess. It's like, actually.

Actually.

Because that's the thing, and the beauty of that is that referral system that.

We have, and it was just so. I missed that.

I missed those days of being, like, in a huge.

Well, let me preface that.

I don't necessarily. I'm glad where I am. I'm very happy to have my own practice. But the one thing about being in a large medical center when you have, like, all of the specialties is like.

Someone'S down the hall and you can actually pop in and say, hey, I know you're on the patient in a few seconds, but can I ask you a quick question? Or better yet, can you see this patient? And that's the beauty of being in a large medical center. And it was so wonderful having her there, because I was like, okay, you got to make sure you address this. I'm going to let you see my colleague, actually. You need to address the fact that you're hearing voices. You need to address the fact that your spouse is causing you so much stress that it is flaring your skin. Because at the end of the day, if your skin is flaring every time you're having an argument, you need to get that fixed. Like, I can't do that for you. That there's no herb for that. You have to address that part. And so it was good to be able to say, hey, you know, go see your mental health, you know, practitioner, or let me refer you to someone. And I do miss that. I miss being able to. I can still refer to you, though, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah.

I Miss having you down the hall.

Different. Yeah, it's like totally different. So.

Well, I love that, I love that you say that too because we always talk about how symptoms are really just pointing us to something that needs to be addressed. Right. Like, and so that's where the mental health and the women's health comes in. It's like, oh, there's something else, there's something underlying this here.

So let's talk about that underlying. So what are the intersections between skin conditions and emotional and mental well being?

Oh, there's so many. But I like to start with what we call is, well, what is now being called the gut, brain, skin connection. Right. So they always talk about the gut connection and the brain connection and they talk about the skin and the brain. But actually it's gut, brain, skin and it's all connected. So our gut health there is, is there and that is where we have our immune cells. That's where we can increase and decrease inflammation depending on the health our gut. And when we have gut inflammation, we know that that impacts how we think. So many patients come in and they say, I'm dealing with brain fog, I'm dealing with irritability, I'm dealing with, you know, I'm raging. And we know that has to do with hormones and we know that there's a direct link from hormones to digestive health. When I talk about healing the gut, I'm also talking about helping your body to be able to balance hormones, to be able. And that's all the hormones. Not just because people think about, oh, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, that's also cortisol, our stress hormone. And so when that is off and our stress goes up and our cortisol goes up, we're going to have skin issues because that cortisol causes inflammation and that inflammation is directly correlated with the skin health because that cortisol, that inflammatory restrictions response, causes you to have an inflammatory response in your skin the same way that it causes inflammation in your gut. So there's this circle of like never ending cycle of inflammation that happens in your gut and your brain and your skin. And people tend to forget the skin because they're like, everyone's pushing mental health and they're pushing like, and that's so great actually. And then they're pushing, oh yeah, healing starts in the gut. And then you have all these people with acne, eczema, psoriasis, that over here, they're just like, hey, what about us?

And they're like, put this steroid on it and you're like, wait, but what about the brain and the skin? Can you just. You treat it, you just do something for it. And it's actually so strange that people don't make that connection, right?

So I come in and say, look.

There'S this gut, brain, skin connection, and.

We need to heal the gut. We need to address your mental health. And then I'm going to watch the skin flourish and grow from the inside out. And I'm just going to make sure that nothing's like, going out of whack. Because what happens if someone does something too aggressive with the gut is that the skin will flare and you can do the same. If you go into therapy and things start coming up, you start to reveal some things. Patients start having these breakthroughs, but then.

Their skin has a breakthrough as well. They're like itching and they're like, I don't know, but. But it's really good. Therapy's been really good. I'm like, oh, my gosh, what are you all talking about? What are you talking about in there? What are you all doing? And it's because this is coming up.

And coming out, and it will express itself on the skin. And I need to control that inflammation topically on the skin as well so that they can continue to have those breakthroughs without uncomfortable. So I know I went through a lot with that, but it's just how, like, that's what goes on in my mind. It's like when I see a patient, I'm like, okay, well, what's going on in your gut? Because it's affecting your hormones, and your hormones affect your skin, but how's your life? And I always do, like, a life balance will, and like, have them feel that out. And now I had. Actually, you didn't do one, Hadley, Because I had gone to a different practice and I didn't have that in my intake form, but I brought it back and I actually have people do a life balance will and fill it out every time so I can see how they're doing. Because I don't. I monitor their mental health, but I don't treat their mental health. I make sure they're referred to a professional. And so I monitor that using a life balance will, because then I can say, oh, financial health's getting better. Mental emotional health. Oh, they're getting outside more. Oh, quality of relationships are getting better. And if it's not, or if it's regressing an apple, how are you doing with that? Have you seen your therapist recently? Have you seen your psychiatrist recently? What's going on like, how can I help you? What do I need to do to support you? Oh, nothing, Dr. DJ. I just need to do it. Okay, well, you know, I'm going to keep reminding you. Just don't get upset because I'm going to ask you every month.

And then they're like, okay, I'm like, just check it. I'm just letting you know it's going to happen. I'm going to ask you and I'm not going to badger you, but I'm.

Going to say, well, how's that going? Oh, okay. You're not doing anything. Okay, great. I'm going to check in on that because we know about the gut brain, skin connection.

And I don't want you messing up my skin because if you don't fix this, you're messing up my work now you're messing with my money. You got to get it together because we're a team and you got to hold up your end of the bargain. I do this work, you do your work. And your work is to follow my treatment summary and get your mental health checked out. So that's, that's my spiel on, on when we get started, then we, then.

We get into the trenches of it all.

So the gut, brain, skin connection. And so you're looking at a person as a whole and you're describing how the gut is the root. You know, the gut, as you're saying, it regulates your immune system, it regulates your hormones, it regulates your neurotransmitters. We talk a lot about that here. And so any imbalances in the gut can cause a domino effect that can affect their skin. And then of course, our emotional well being can jump in and change the gut and change the hormones and change the skin. But those things can also change our mental, emotional. So it's like all in this vacuum together.

Yeah, it's all those, like, cytokines.

It's like it's.

Everything is just if everything's in flame that I always explain it like, the house is on fire. I'm like, okay, the house is on fire and we have to put out the fire before we start building up. Like with naturopathic medicine, I feel builds the house back up. Like, we're like, okay, here we go. We're doing the gut with the L glutamine, we're doing probiotics. All that stuff builds. But the house is still on fire. So if the house is on fire, how do we, how do we put out the fire? How do we decrease the inflammation? Yes, I Can give you fish oils, but we have to test and see what's off. Like, is there something missing? Is there some nutrient missing? Is there food sensitivities that you have that are causing more inflammation? We test just to figure out where the. Where the fire is being increased by, like, what is. What's the kerosene or what's the gasoline that's being poured on the fire. And that's what we test for. We find those things out, because then once we figure out what's wrong and where the inflammation is coming from, we can put the fire out. And then we put the fire out.

We rebuild the house.

That's when you're. When you do a micronutrient panel and figure out what nutrients are missing. That's when you build the gut back up, but you can't do one without the other. And people kind of do this thing where they're just like, oh, they're trying to, like, rebuild the house, and the fire's still burning. And I'm like, you got to put the fire out. And no one does that. And I. And I feel like that's what kind of makes the practice of naturopathic dermatology unique, is that we see that the skin is just reflecting the house being on fire. It's like the smoke signals.

It's like the body is like, hey, I'm on fire. Put me out. And they're just like, no, you're not. Here's a steroid. Let's just. Let's just sprinkle a little water on the top. Let's just keep painting the outside of this house that's on fire. It's totally fine. You're fine, you're fine, you're fine. Just be quiet. Just give me some more paint. We're just going to keep painting this house even though it's smoking and on fire. And that's what I feel like happens.

And so our approach is different. Our way of looking at medicine and the body holistically is different. And so we put out the fire, we figure out what's going on. And that's where I feel like I make the biggest difference using naturopathic medicine with dermatology.

It's so good. I mean, I've had eczema, psoriasis, and acne.

Yes, you did. You had the trifecta of truth. You have the trifecta of truth. And you took me. You took my practice to another level. I was like, oh, wait. Because some of the things that work for acne actually could exacerbate psoriasis and eczema and vice versa. Some of the things that work for eczema will exacerbate psoriasis. And I was like, this lady walked.

Into my office and she has all three.

And I call myself an expert. Let's see if you got the chops. You put me to the test.

Oh, and I love it because, yeah, you know, when I was in college and high school and everything, it was, it was like, here, the steroid. I also think that that impacted like my eyes because like I had to put it, like I had it on my eye. Like my psoriasis was on my eyes. And so it was, you know, not a great situation. And I'm so grateful to you that you have such, you get to the root cause and it's, and it's, it's so cool how you have such a combination of these things. I just, I remember talking about with you obviously, like, you know, we have supplements and stuff, but really talking about, okay, what is, you know, what's actually going on in your life. I remember talking about like singing more and doing things that like, really bring me joy and, you know, and that kind of thing. And so really bringing in the mental health, the skin obviously, and then the gut health as well and the hormonal health. That was like a massive piece of it as well, especially with the acne.

And so. Yeah, so I'm just so grateful for you.

Hadley. Hadley, I'm curious what was causing your house to be on fire? Did you as you were working through that, do you have an impression?

Yeah, so I think my hormones have been, were messed up for a while and actually I remember you, Dr. D.J. saying to me like, wow, you've been able to manage this like through your healthy lifestyle for years. Like you've been able to like totally manage it because I, you know, I didn't have that many flare ups and stuff, but then I had mold exposure and that made it all come up to the surface and you know, I was just like, I'm doing all the things like how, you know. And so yeah, that was, that was the fire. Yeah, that was like the like the like top blowing off the house.

Yeah.

With a smile on her face the whole time. Always.

Always.

And then I was like, she was like, and you can email, email me at Happy Healthy Hadley. And I'm like, oh, Peggy, now I get it. It's not just a Persona, it's a lifestyle. It's everything she is. And she was completely happy no matter what the pain is, no matter what.

The stress is no matter what, that's her, that's who she is. Right.

And, and so, but at the same time, what happens with the body is.

That you're this way and your body's.

Like.

So not only this, but the skin was letting me know that Hadley was like. And so it, it's, it's the, it's.

Mean and I have all these analogies.

But I always tell patients, I'm like.

I'm like the translator.

Like your body's telling you something and I'm just going to ask you a.

Bunch of questions and I'm going to.

Look at your skin and I'm going to tell you what the body's telling me.

Because what you're seeing and what you.

Are projecting to the world is not.

What the body is actually telling me as the doctor. And the body was like, hey Doc, I don't know if you know this, but Halle's like really cool and everything, but I'm, I'm about to, I'm done, I'm done.

I need some help. And the body told me and I was like, I got you, I got you body. Let's take care of it. Hadley, you be healthy. We're going to do this over here. And so she kept her, you know, she, because.

But that's her mental health and that's how she copes. That's her coping mechanism. That is how she lives. And her body still feels, your body still feels cortisol being high. Your body can still feel estrogen being out of whack and progesterone being low. And you can be tired, exhausted. And we rally because we are from the United States of America and that's what we do. We have these very rough lifestyles where we're just like, go hard to go.

Home, you know, wake up at 6, go to bed at 6. 6am to 6am I don't sleep, I don't need sleep. Yeah, I'm an influencer, I'm a doctor, I'm a this. And we live this life and it's very normal, but it's not.

And our bodies are telling us it's too much. And so her body was having too much. She was fine. She was dealing with it and coping and doing what she needed to do so that she can survive in her life. But the body was, it was taking a toll on her body. And so we just get. I, I always tell you to give your body like rest every kind of, every three months, just do some restful things. But I do like to stress like journaling 10 to 15 minutes. Just like every day, like before you wake up. Like not before you wake up because that, like after you wake up in.

Your dream, I need you to journal. Yeah, you wake up 15 minutes, 15 minutes before bed. Very minimal. Just to start people out, you know, just start somewhere taking like mental health breaks.

And then think about joy and gratitude and all the things that Hadley already does. But also listening to your body, because people don't listen to their body. Like if the body says stop, take a break, take a nap, do it.

We listen to our body when we ask, when it asks for a candy bar, but we never listen to the body.

Like, you want some chocolate? Yes, I do. I heard you, body. You like some talk. Okay, I got some chocolate.

Hey, I'm tired. What? You're not tired.

You're fine.

Have a coffee.

Have a coffee. I know I drank like six cups.

Of coffee in medical school.

I remember because I had iron deficiency anemia. I was growing fibroids from the stress.

During medical school, having all kinds of skin issues and I would just drink more coffee.

I was like, I'm failing as a.

Medical student if I don't drink enough.

Coffee and stay up.

Right? So I just drank coffee and pushed through. I can do this.

And in the, and I was a naturopath at school. I did that in like traditional medical.

School when I was do school for.

A while, even in naturopathic school, because I was just like, well, I can.

Be healthy and tell my patients to be healthy, but I gotta go do medical school. Like, we always make excuses for our like, like habits that are like not necessarily healthy for the body. So I feel like that was one of the things that like we, we discover together is like the body is telling us one thing and we have to listen to it even if we feel like we're okay. And I think that's something that people need to learn to pay attention to their body.

So let's take a pause and as you're listening to this conversation is ask yourself. That question is ask yourself, is my house on fire? And if so, what are the factors that are creating that fire or contributing to that fire? And what is that fire telling me needs healing and how. This is a very bottom up method of healing, you know, so we think of like the trauma informed approaches for healing. We have the top down and then we have the bottom up. And top down is analysis and logic and doing all of the right things. But the bottom up is what I hear you talking about, which is the body is Speaking and then by listening to the body, collecting data from the body, we are then able to leverage that information for testing and deeper healing and treatment. And so as you're listening to this, like D.J. said, is journaling, meditating, just whatever you can do to hold and create that space. Right now, as you're listening to this to try to get to the root cause. If you're dealing with skin issues, try to get to the root cause. What the heck is lighting your house on fire?

That's good. I like that.

And you know, I want to make this relevant to people too, because some people are like, well, you know, I have, I've had eczema my whole life, but I'm more stressed recently is, let's talk about panic attacks and how panic can cause skin eruptions. And so you were talking about the fight flight response with adrenaline and cortisol. And then we know that the hormones of adrenaline and cortisol can increase your heart rate, they can make you sweat, they can make your thoughts go faster, but it can also cause skin eruptions. And so as you're listening to this, ask yourself if you've ever noticed any sort of change in your skin when you get stressed and panicked. Do you flush? Does your skin get warm? Does your skin get hot? Or maybe you notice your fingers get cold and the rest of your body gets hot. What happens to the temperature change that you feel in your skin? Those are changes on your skin that you may not be able to see, but you can feel. Some people, they get hives when they get really anxious and stressed. Some people will then get things like eczema or psoriasis as a result of that fight flight freeze responses. Kind of put a nice little bow around this topic that we've brought to the table. Connecting skin with your health, your emotional health.

And tingling is one of the things that a lot of people feel. And they don't feel itching or burning. Some people feel burning and itching, but sometimes it's just a tingle. Especially with eczema and psoriasis, when they're stressed, they have this feeling and they're like, no, it's not itchy. It's not. They're like, it's just a tingle. Like I feel it and I know that I'm going to get a lesion in this one area because I always have a tingling sensation when I argue with my spouse or when I have a big speaking engagement. And some people flare immediately and others just get the tingle. And people need to pay attention to that. So that tingling is something that feels like. People feel that all the time. It's very similar to the Prodrome. And like herpes, like when you get cold sores and herpes and you have the tingling, it's a very similar feeling with some people with eczema psoriasis.

I was actually going to ask you that question, is if this is something you see specifically, like an hsv, viral infections, or if it's more. If it could be even if they don't have virus. But I call it nervous system anxiety. When the nerves and the nerves that feed the skin. You're talking about when the nerves start to react.

Yeah, they get the tingling and flushing a lot of times. But because I only see patients with skin issues, I don't know if it happens all the time in patients without it.

I know that it can from medical school, but. Because everyone I see has skin issues. Yes, absolutely. They feel the tingling.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's one of the things I.

Tell people to notice and pay attention to. And that's when they do their deep breathing. That's when they take a minute.

I'm like, okay, what is the thing you feel?

Some people feel immediately digestion stuff. They're like, okay, right before I get a rash, I feel something in my digestion. And I'm like, okay, we can use that information. So when you feel that, that's when you know it's time for you to take a deep breath, step away. What did I taste? What did I touch? What did I smell? Right? Those are the three things I'm like, when you get it at rash, you got to ask yourself, what do you taste? What do you touch? What do you smell? Because something has interacted. And then there's a part of that that is like, okay, well, what am I feeling on the inside? Right. I always say, what do you taste? What do you touch? Where you smell? But when it comes to, like, the mental health, you have to step back and say, what. What am I feeling right now? What. What is happening right now? How am I responding in my head to my environment at this moment? And do I need to change that? But that's why I have to take it a step further and ask those questions. Like I asked Hadley and get into your business. I'm like, I got to get into your business. Like, I got to know what your poop is like, I got to know.

How much water you're drinking, and I.

Need to know all your drama at home.

Not because, like. Not because I'm trying to be like Oprah, Jerry Springer, but it's also because I just really need to know what's.

Going on so that I can help you to navigate it and just even bring attention to it.

So, you know, because a lot of people don't even know they need to.

See a therapist or a counselor or psychiatrist until I talk to them.

And they're like, oh, I never knew that was connected to my skin. And that actually can be their jump off point of going to see therapist because they didn't think it was anything.

Mentally, emotionally that they needed to address. So I love the interaction of that because then patients can see, they're like, oh, this is affecting me because they.

Don'T think it is. And then until I tell them, like, oh, have you noticed that every time you get a little bit anxious, like your skin skin flares, they're like, oh, I got to get this fixed. Because when it's your skin, people care more. They just care more about their mental.

Health when it has to do with their skin. Sometimes.

I know I do. I'm very vain in that way. In fact, I was recently I got a rash. I posted about this on Instagram because I was like, what the heck? So I got a rash and it's just like around the edge of my mouth, around the edge of my eye. And so derm means skin, itis means inflammation. So it's dermatitis. And then oral means mouth, and then ocular means eye. So I have perioral and periocular dermatitis. So that just describes what you see. And I was like, oh, man, this sucks. Where did this come from? And so I just sort of like, put some aloe vera on it for a while and it didn't go away. And so I finally went to a dermatologist in the hopes that maybe they'd have something helpful to say. And she said, oh, well, this is what it is. I knew. And then she said, you need some doxycycline and some isotretinoin compound with some other topical antibiotic. And I was like, but is it infectious? And she said, no. And I said, well, then why do you want to give me really strong probiotic that could then cause a yeast infection and then a yeast rash. And then like, diflucan isn't very good for your liver. And so then it'll anger my liver. And she's just like, patient refuses antibiotics. And so there's probably lots of things that were going on before that, but the minute that it showed up on my face, I'm like, oh, hell no. We got to go to the dermatologist, but that wasn't very good. So I was a non compliant patient and I am not taking the antibiotic. And so I posted about this and it turns out that tons and tons and tons and tons of people really resonate with this experience where they get this rash, their house is on fire, they don't know why, they don't know what it's about. So I feel really lucky that now we have a naturopathic dermatology expert. So had I been smarter and had come to see you or another naturopathic dermatologist, as someone, what would you tell them?

You know me, I'm slightly offended.

You're like, what the heck?

I'm like, wait, you had a rash.

Okay, I still have a rash. It's getting better.

Good luck with that. Dr. K. I know you're like, good luck with your dermatologist.

You've been cut off your non compliant patient.

So.

Antibiotics, patient reviews, antibiotics.

It's like, oh, my God, I'm so not compliant. Like, part of me is like, yeah, I'm. I'm a rebel. Then part of me is like, ashamed. I'm like, oh, I know.

I'm a doctor. Doctors are the worst patients.

They are.

I didn't tell her that either. I was just like, oh, okay.

Oh, good, good. Okay, good.

You didn't tell her you're a doctor. No, definitely.

But you would be surprised, I'm telling you, you'd be surprised at what these dermatologists know that they are not doing.

Because they're just like, this is what we're supposed to do. I just don't want to lose my license.

Totally.

And then if you found out they were. If you found out they. They find out you were a doctor.

They would go like, well, actually, you could probably try some whatever, naturopathic treatments, you know?

Totally.

I should work.

I should have elbow told her that and I was just showing up.

Off the record.

Use some naturopathic medicine. I'm sure you have something for this. I feel like with. With any type of dermatitis.

Right?

So they're literally just like, oh, you have inflammation on your face.

Like, thanks.

Great.

So I feel like I know the house is on fire. Like, this was my life for you.

I got that.

I think.

And I feel like there is room for dermatology to grow. There are. You know, I do want to give a shout out to those integrative dermatologists that are trying. I'm a part of an integrated dermatology symposium that we have every year where MDS nutritionists, naturopaths come together and they are trying to bridge the gap. And but there's a lot of things.

That we just, I won't say don't.

Agree on, but we have different approaches, right? We're looking at the world through two different paradigms. And I know that you remember this from Dr. Sinzenig. It's like we're just looking at the world through two different paradigms. And so it's not a like us or them type thing. It's just that we're just in two different houses and we're treating like they're like, oh, let's just do these things. And we're like, got to put the fire out. You got to build the house up. And so from looking from your point of view, what I would say to you, the first thing I would go through is, you know, my favorite, you know, I have to ask about your sleep, I have to ask about your, what are you eating, how you pooping, how's your energy? Because I'm looking to see if any of those are off. And if you say everything's okay, I'm going to say, well, what time do you go to bed? What time do you wake up? Do you wake up to use the bathroom? Are you having restful sleep? Do you wake up with energy? Like, I get more in depth because people think they're okay. One of the things I like to say, just because it's common doesn't mean it's normal, right? Just because it's common for you doesn't mean it's normal. So people say, oh, I sleep well and they're only sleeping four hours. Or they're like, oh, I sleep well, but I never wake up. Refresh well, I sleep well, but I wake up five times because I go to use the bathroom or I'm stressed. A lot of people, especially high power people that are like, you know, girl bosses, like you have a stressful life and they don't think they do because you're handling it right. You're just like, no, this is just a part of my day. This is just what I do.

Like, I rule the world daily. This is what I do. Like, this is, this is you, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

And so, so you're looking getting in my way. This is getting in your way of being great. Like I'm being great over here. And now I got this, this itis going on. This itis here and this itis here. And they just want to put a steroid on it. So then you have to step back.

And like I always say, what did you eat? What did you touch? What did you smell? When did it happen? I have to get an accurate timeline.

And if you want to, we can always, you know, go get together and talk about this. You can do another episode and just let me go through an entire intake with you, but I have to get a timeline of when it started and.

What was going on in that time. And then we look at your gut health. Did anything change? You have to ask yourself these questions. Has anything changed in your diet? Because you could eat the same all the time. And then, like, that one day, right before it happened, you had something, and that could have been the thing that, you know, caused the gut issue. Because a lot of people eat things, and people. I'm gonna say this as nice as possible, okay? No, I'm not. People don't wash their hands.

People are nasty, and they don't wash their hands. We know because Covid happened.

And they're.

Cooking your food in these restaurants, and.

People come back for all kinds of Campylobacter.

And, like, I'm like, what.

How did you get.

Oh, my gosh.

Where did you eat? And then I find it. I trace.

I have traced things back to the.

One taco in Mexico that one weekend.

And I.

And I'm like, and you had a taco. And they were like, yeah, but it was at a good. But you had a taco at this restaurant, and then you have a digestive issue. And then the rat.

That's what happened.

And they're like, oh, my gosh. How did you figure that out? I asked the question. You have to ask the questions. You have to get an accurate timeline.

And I. And I feel like what happens is.

It'S either digestion, and then the stress flares it, but it usually starts with digestion. And then it's like, how your liver. Have you been supporting your liver? Did you have one too many drinks in Cancun? Did you.

Like, that could throw you off?

And then you do that, and you're like, I haven't been right since.

And there's homeopathic remedies for that. Because people say, you haven't been right since. But I don't think about the homeopathic remedy. I'm like, you haven't been right since that time.

What did you eat?

You're like, what did you eat?

What did you eat? What did you smoke? What did you drink?

Yeah.

What conversations were you having? Was it a happy time or not so happy time? Were you stressed out?

What was going on. We have to. We have to get through all of that because somewhere in there was that the. The match that lit that fire of inflammation.

So I'm looking for, literally, they say the needle in the haystack. I'm looking for the match. I'm looking for the match in the fire. What lit the fire that started the inflammation that now causes you to have.

Itis here and it is there because all this is, is letting me know there's inflammation that started somewhere in your body and it's now showing itself on your face. And it might be just because those two places could be. You could have just rubbed there, you know, too hard when you wash your face. It could just be those are the spots where you will always have inflammation. Does that make sense? Not always have inflammation meaning, like, it's just where your body will exacerbate it. Because I had. People have different types. Like, they'll have inflammation from high or low progesterone, and they'll get a rash in one place, and then that will calm down and they'll have inflammation in their gut, but they get the same rash in the same place. Sometimes those areas are vulnerable. And that has to do with your skin microbiome. So that's different. Like, the microbiome of your skin is a whole nother topic that people are exploring even more. So we have to figure out where the match is.

What do you think of probiotics for the skin?

Oh, I think they're wonderful, but I.

Think it's really difficult for people to put probiotics in skincare because probiotics are live, right? So it always. People always ask me to evaluate things that have probiotics in them, and I'm just like, oh, what is it? A lotion? They gotta heat those. How is there live probiotic in that?

And they're just like, oh, did they put it in the capsule after that? They just empty a capsule in it after it was made. Like, how do you. How do you put probiotics in? Like, unless you heat stabilize it.

But I know that these companies are not doing that.

So the best way for me, or at least this is what I've done.

With patients when I felt their microbiome was off, is I had them, like, open up a probiotic capsule into, like, some clay and then put a little bit of, like, water in it, or even, like, apple cider vinegar, but mostly just water and clay, and then open up a probiotic capsule and put it on the area. People do that and completely clear things up. But most of the time we have to figure out where it's coming. Because topical is like, just topical. It'll help with the microbiome, but not if the inflammation is coming from the inside.

Like painting the house.

Yeah, it's like painting the house. However, it can help with the skin.

Barrier if the barrier is, like, broken. If the skin barrier is like. If the skin barrier is damaged in any way, it will help with that.

Because, you know, house paint peels, and.

You do have to fix it, but.

It'S just not going to stop the fire.

Right?

It's going to help, but it'll come back, right?

It'll come back. So you do. That's why when. If you look at my program and I have people in a. In a protocol, so to speak, I don't do anything topically for their skin unless they ask me. They're like, hey, can I tell you? Can I. Can you evaluate my products?

Because I'm like, it doesn't matter what.

You put on your face when you're healthy on the inside.

Totally not saying, like, as long as it's not toxic.

Right.

I don't want you to put toxic thing on their face. But, you know, you know, like, 50 girls, you could probably count at least.

10 that, you know, that put trash on their face and their skin is beautiful. Right.

Eat McDonald's, too. But we're not going to talk about that. There's.

Because it's all about, like, your body's integrity, the body's ability to carry those toxins in that bucket and that, you.

Know, and once that bucket is overflowing.

Once your body's overflowing with toxins, you're going to have skin issues. So the goal is to get rid of all the toxins in the body. You can't get rid of everything, so you've got to keep it at least below the threshold of having a skin problem.

Mm, I love that.

Sorry if I get such a good.

Way of looking at it. Yeah.

Let me know if I'm doing too much, because I'm like, I could talk about this all day long, and I could go as deep or as shallow.

As we need to.

To go, but I can stay in the pool forever.

Well, you love it.

You see my eyes in the recording because I take notes during these conversations. Like, Hadley knows. Like, I fill sheets of notes, and I, like, type things down. So sometimes there's a pause because I'm like, ooh, that was a good one. I wrote it down.

I love it. I'm a not taker.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Well, and so you know that I'm all about habits. Like, that's, like, my thing. So are there any lifestyle changes or habits that. That, you know, people with.