Can Anxiety Cause Weird Sensations in the Body? Part 3 (Trauma Anxiety) | Ep. 86 (Audio Only)

Welcome to the Holistic Inner Balance podcast with Dr. Nicole Cain and Happy Healthy.

Hadley, your go to resource for natural mental health and wellness strategies so that you can become the expert of your own emotional and physical well being, merging.

Modern science with ancient wisdom.

Hey everybody. Thank you so much, so much for being here at Holistic Inner balance. I am Dr. Nicole Kane and I'm Happy Healthy Hadley. We're here to talk to you. We're on part three of this conversation that we've been having about how strange symptoms show up in our bodies when we're feeling panicky or anxious. And we're using a merger of our understanding of neuroscience and bringing in a lot of wonderful traditional ayurvedic wisdom. And so before you listen to this podcast, if you haven't already, is go and check out our quiz about the eight types of anxiety. It's a free quiz and that can help you start to understand what is going on in your body when you're getting all of these different sensations because your symptoms are data on what needs healing and how. And we're going to be diving into the details of that in this series. If you haven't seen the past two episodes, we've gone over gut anxiety, chest anxiety in the first one. The second one we did depressive anxiety and anger anxiety. And today we're going to be talking about thought anxiety and trauma anxiety, which would leave the last two of the eight types of anxiety for next time, which are neurological anxiety and endocrine anxiety. And so we're really excited to be here today. I know that I've been looking forward to this conversation. I and Hadley, you look excited, too. I could just see it on your face. Yes.

I'm so excited. I was just telling my husband this morning how excited I am to get back into these, talking about these things and talking about the doshas and how they relate to all of them, too. So take the dosha quiz too, if you're curious about which dosha is most prominent in your constitution, because that'll give you kind of an insight into, into all of these different types of anxiety as well, because all of the doshas can show up in different ways within each of these types of anxiety, which is so fascinating and just can give you a map of what to do next if you know these things about yourself.

Yeah. And I think what you just said is the most important part is that we don't want to treat all panic attacks and all anxiety as though they're the same thing, because as you know, anxiety can show up in all sorts of different ways. And so when I've had anxiety, I've had moments where it's like electricity in my teeth, and then that's neurological anxiety. And then I've had other anxiety moments where my stomach is just, like, so queasy and nauseated. And it's anxiety. But the way that the body is presenting it is very different. And so, of course, naturally, we would treat it more differently than if it was always the same. Right?

Exactly. Yes. And that's where Ayurveda really shines, because there is no one size fits all approach. A lot of times in other, you know, health systems, in the modern. Modern wellness systems and health health systems, it's like, okay, what's the norm for the majority of people? And when we do that, we can kind of lose the nuance, which, you know, we are all about nuance here. And so we can sort of lose this based on your specific mind, body type, based on what is most prominent for you at that point in your life. And so Ayurveda does a really good job of being able to see. Okay, so you're experiencing this thing, and that's because this dosha is most prevalent for you. Here's a map for how to actually balance out that dosha. Then you can. You can kind of tailor it to yourself a lot easier.

Yeah. So if somebody listens. So if you listen to the first podcast on anxiety and you're like, oh, my gosh, I feel all of this in my gut. I resonate with everything that they're saying. You take the eight types of anxiety quiz confirms gut anxiety is at the top of your list. And then you go and you take the eight types of or the doshas to figure out which dosha combination you might be in in that moment with those symptoms. Then suddenly you have a whole bunch of data about what you can do to heal based on the unique expression of your symptoms. And so I think really what's important is to listen to the symptoms, those weird, funny experiences that you get, and be a detective about it. And so bookmark the Ayurveda quiz. Bookmark the eight types of anxiety quiz so that you can start to figure out, like, oh, when I'm feeling this, and it's feeling this in this way, this is what I need to do to help improve my health and restore balance and give life to my body, which may be different when your symptoms shift. And so that's why it's good to bookmark that and keep coming back.

Totally.

Yeah, exactly. So let's get into it.

I love it. I want to start with trauma anxiety. And as a disclaimer with trauma, I'm defining this as anything that your nervous system has adapted to. And so sometimes we'll call it trauma, other times we'll call it an adverse experience or anything that just requires that you make an adjustment. And so for every person that will be different. Trauma is not about what happened to you, but how it affected your nervous system, how it affected your mind and your body. And Ayurveda has ways of explaining that in quite a lot more detail. And so when it comes to trauma, anxiety is you want to think about this as more of an umbrella over the other eight or the other seven types of anxiety, because you can have trauma and it can present its trauma anxiety. But then as a result of having adapted to an adverse of trauma or an adverse event is you may get also gut anxiety and thought anxiety. So don't think of trauma anxiety as mutually exclusive. Think of it more as like a Venn diagram. It's just data, but signs that you've gone through trauma or signs that it's a trauma. Anxiety is you may have some symptoms in there related to the trauma itself, like it started after a big event or you have an extensive history of neglect. Maybe it's not about what happened to you, but about what didn't happen to you. So do you have a history of unmet needs? Childhood neglect? Did you not get the encouragement that you needed in order to have that confidence and self esteem in your abilities? And it could be something like going through a major event, like a tornado, natural disaster, divorce, being bullied. It could be having a major illness diagnosed or going through cancer. So trauma is anything that you had to adjust to. When our bodies make adjustments, they can make adjustments in many different ways. Hadley's bringing to the table how the doshas can contribute to the main types of a trauma response, which you may have heard is fight, blight, freeze, flop, fawn. And so what's super cool is Ayurveda already has explanations for all of that. And so when you're thinking about trauma anxiety, think about how you tend to respond as we dive into each of these. And so, Kavli, I was wondering if you can start by teaching us a little bit about the doshas. Do you want to start with each of the types of responses or do you want to zoom out even more first?

Yeah, I think starting with each of the types of responses would probably be helpful. And in talking about how the doshas kind of play into each of them, because they're not. It's not like, you know, this one is specifically this dosha. There are a couple that are like that, but there are five of them and there are only three doshas. So we can kind of go into how each one kind of plays out.

I love that. So can we start with fight? Because that's how the mnemonic usually begins, is fight.

Yes. Right. So, well, and do we want to explain a little bit first? Like, what is fight? Flies fight, flight, freeze and flop. Do we want to just like give everyone that definition first and then go. And then go into it with the doshas? Let's do that.

I think that sounds great. So fight. Let's think of it in. In the sense of a wild animal. Because I feel like we see like beautiful, pure pictures. And so in kind of order, the order that I read it in, like if we're looking at a deer, so you're walking in the woods and you see a deer and the deer is going to freeze. So the first thing that people often do when they're going through a trauma or something really scary is they freeze. They don't know what move to make. Their brain is collecting a whole bunch of data. They're trying to figure out, is there an escape route, do I need to fly, am I okay to fly, can I escape, or am I trapped here? If I fight, am I going to get out, Could I win this battle, or do I just literally flop down first? You're going to see a freeze response. And so when you get scared or when you get anxious, you might find that you're frozen in spot and you can't think of what to say. Sometimes it's hard to move. Some people, the freeze is so severe, they go into capitonia. That's oftentimes the first response that we see in mother Nature. Then the second response is that the deer will often run next. You'll see them freeze, scope it out, and then they flee, they flight. That's when you get all this adrenaline. Your heart starts going faster, your body temperature rises, your big muscles constrict so you can run. You see the deer running. If, if the deer assesses, if you can't run, then you may get a fight. And so that's when you feel like, I can't get away. I'm trapped. If you're arguing with somebody and the argument is just persisting and they're not leaving, or you're in a car and you're in traffic and you can't leave, you just May get angrier and angrier. And so we have that fight response, which is all that same adrenaline and all of those same catecholamines surging through your veins. You feel threatened, you feel in danger, maybe. And so there's that fight.

Each anger, frustration could also be if you're, like, being. If you. If so, if you feel like someone is, like, attacking your character, it's like the defensiveness can feel like that fight. Yeah, yeah.

That defensiveness, like, how dare you? Or, you know, people who see other people being bullied, and it's like, I have to stand up for them. I have to fight it. I'm not going to freeze like, they're being bullied. I had to fight it. So, yes. So that fight response, the flop response, will often have when the person, the animal, whatever it is that we're describing, having that response feels like there's no other option, and it's just like death. And we see this in sheep quite a lot, actually. So a sheep, if she gets stuck on a fence and her little wool is tangled up in the fencing, that sheep will just flop. She'll just decide, well, I'm stuck here. I'm going to die. And so she'll just decide to die. So the shepherd has to go and unhook the sheep and then force her to walk around and force her to walk back to the herd to convince her, like, you're actually not stuck anymore. You're not dead, you're in a flop response. And then eventually she'll be like, yay, I love sheep.

She loves sheep so much. Isn't that just, like, so good? That's, like, that's how we feel. And then we need someone to just, like, to show us that it's okay. Hey, like, we're not dying. I love that so much. That's so great.

Which is such a good lesson is, like, if somebody's in a flop is if you can just do anything to pattern interrupt that. And Hadley will talk about that with the dosha, because I think that's going to be a really good hack for the flop, which is kind of counterintuitive. So I'm excited about that. And then the last one is more of a human response, which is fawn, which is where you either identify with your abuser or you try to please your abuser or try to win their graces, win their favor, protect yourself by trying to build connection or approval from them. And so that's a fawn. So those are the typical responses that we see in trauma, of course, it's not a completely inclusive list, but that's what we're going to be diving into today, right?

Yeah, no, I'm glad we went over those because I think a lot of times people hear like fight or flight or maybe fight, flight, freeze, but they don't hear the other ones. And the flop is, is more from like, okay, something has been happening over and over and over and over again. It's sort of that learned helplessness. Like, it's like there is literally nothing else I can do now. And so. So yeah, so we'll go into that with the doshas, but really easy to start off with. Like, fight is the pitta dosha. Right. Like, pitta is the element of fire and a little bit of water, but. But mostly fire. And so it's. It's fight. It's like, okay, I'm going to fight my way out this. It's that intensity. It's that like activation really feeling like your whole body is like, is fiery essentially. And so that one's a really easy one. That's. That's. If that's your tendency, then you might have a. You might find that you have a lot of pitta in other areas of your life as well. And so being able to, being able to address that is huge. Just acknowledging that that' your tendency. A lot of times, especially for women in our society, we are not quote, unquote, supposed to feel anger or this like, fight especially. Well, especially for, you know, women of color and people who are, you know, even more marginalized. Like, it's like not okay, quote, unquote, not okay to feel those fight. To feel that fight emotion. And so coming to terms with that and being okay with that is one of the biggest things that we can do when we're dealing with that anger or fight kind of reaction.

I think it's a vital reaction. And it's interesting that you're talking about like, how society looks at different people in that vital reaction where it's like in my parents generation, like, you weren't allowed, men in particular weren't allowed to have feelings unless it was anger. But then we see that women of color and other persons that you spoke about that is the opposite where if you're angry, then there's a problem with you and that's not acceptable. And so like looking at where that. What's the origin story of that pitta and like, what does that mean to you given your upbringing and your family and your culture and your environment?

Totally. Yeah. So a lot of times, like men are Allowed to feel anger but not any other emotion. Women are allowed to feel sadness but not other emotions. Sadness, maybe like happiness, but not too happy, right? Like not too joyful, you know, stay, you know, stay in your lane, whatever. And so, so recognizing that is, is huge here for sure. So we've got that pitta. That pitta energy. So acknowledging that, accepting that. And then we can start to balance out the pitta as well as, you know, start to, to work with the trauma as well. And we just had an episode come out recently that was about emdr. So there are, there are lots of ways to, to work with your trauma. And we can talk a little bit about that today, but we won't dive super into that because we talk about it all the time. But there are some other episodes that you can definitely check out for that. So that fight and then flight is very much. Well, you know, when you think of the flight response, what, what's like the quality of flight, if you were to think about like the different elements that we have in Ayurveda and how they relate to the doshas, like, what comes up for you when you think of that?

I'm flying into the air away, like I'm jettison myself like a jet out of the place that I am. I want to escape. So it feels very vata.

Yes, for sure. Yeah. And vata is that air and ether or space element. It's like just up, up in the sky, you know, it's moving really fast. It's getting out of there. So that is pretty, that's pretty straightforward. That. That's going to be flight. There might be some pizza in there to like, get you moving. Like there might be some fire in your legs that's going to like, make you run faster. But for the most part, like, flight is pretty, pretty closely related to vata, I would say. And so if you're, if your tendency and you know, this might be the case for you in like, situations, especially with like your relationships, it might be like, what one little thing happens and you're out of there. You're like, no, I'm not doing this. And you're just like, you're gone. That might be a trauma response from like childhood. And that might be more related to that avoidant attachment, that avoidant. You know, like, if something happens, then I'm going to. Then I'm just not going to deal with it. I'm just going to get out of here.

Just wondering about like avoidant. It's like relationships aren't like solid ground and so you have to stand on something. But I'm thinking like Indiana Jones where you're like, on the ground and it starts to crumble, so you jump on the next ground. So you want to be kind of like light as a feather so that you can, like, bop to. To the next place. Because you just never know what's going to happen in these insecure attachments. And so I love exactly relating that to more of a vata. It's like, it's not safe to be grounded and heavy and rooted. Yes. You have to be ready to fly and bounce and protect yourself at any moment. It's unpredictable.

Yeah. And that's where we get a lot of that hyper vigilance of, you know, if you have a lot of vata in your constitution or if you have trauma that has created a lot of vata in your constitution. Because trauma, usually trauma creates vata overall. Like, there's vata included in all of these responses. Because Trump, because vata is closely, closely related to trauma because there's that insecurity, there's that level of ungroundedness because you don't feel safe in your body. And that's what trauma creates, is not feeling safe. And so, and so it's. That's vata. Vata is fear, essentially. And so, yeah, when we, when we get this, this like, flight response, if we're gonna. We're gonna just have even more of that vata, and it can play out in all different areas of. Of your life. It might be, it might be that you, like, if, like a door slams, you're just like immediately jumping. You know, it's, it's. You're hyper vigilant in your nervous system. And that's all very closely related to vata.

That's brilliant. And so we started with fight pitta. You know, that fire, that fight response, that heat, that intensity. And then the flight is a lot of like, I'm just gonna shoot off into the air, fly away. That escaping, that avoidant, that hyper vigilance. And then we have freeze.

Yes. And so freeze. Freeze is so at first glance, freeze looks like it's, you know, it looks like you're stuck, right? It's. It's. So kapha is the element of earth and water. And when you mix those things together, you get mud. So you can feel stuck in the mud. Right. Like, that's kind of how I look at, at that. And so frieza at first glance looks like, oh, purely kapha. Of course it's going to be kapha, because it's you know, you're just. You're not moving at all. And so. And like, vata is moving. Vata is movement. Right? And so that's. So at first glance, it's going to look like kapha. However, it's always. Because there's something. There's something else going on. And so there. Because there's a lot of vata, the kapha moves in. We've talked about this before with like, chest anxiety, gut anxiety. Like, the kapha moves in to protect the vata. So if there's a lot of, like that air and ether elements, the. This, the movement, kapha will come in and be like, I got you. I'm just gonna, like, just protect you here. And so in that instant, kapha is going to come in and be like, no, we're just not moving at all. And that's. And that's protecting it. And so all of these things can sort of come back to when we're dealing with trauma is it comes back to regulating our nervous system regardless of the. The dosha that's like, on top of it. But we can tweak it slightly based on. Based on the doshas and based on each type of fight, flight, freeze or flop or fawn. And so we'll talk about that a little bit too. And so that's what the freeze is going to. Is going to be flop. Let's talk a little bit about flop. So this one is going to have a little bit more kapha even than freeze. Because it's really like, it's. It's that learned helplessness. And so that's something that if you were a psych. If you were a psych major, you would learn about learned helplessness. And, you know, maybe you even learned about it in high school, if you took. If you had any psych classes in high school. But that's gonna be like, something happens. Typically, it's something happens over and over again. Or there's something that's so strong that you don't think, is that you don't think you're going to be able to get through. And then you flop. You're like. It's essentially like you're so. You're so strung out with the stress of the situation that there's literally nothing else for you to do other than to just like, collapse on the ground. So there's a ton of vata there. There's a ton of, like, that activation, and then you flop. And that's. Then there's like, more of that kapha. So we do need to mobilize that kapha. When we're thinking about what to do in that situation, we need to both ground down the vata. We need to be regulated in our nervous system. And then also sort of do that pattern interrupter that you mentioned before, Dr. Kane, of like, okay, showing yourself that you're safe on the one hand and then also doing something to shift the. The paradigm that you've got going on in your mind. And so that needs to be something that's going to actually, like, mobilize you and move you in a certain direction. So you have to have kind of both of those things, the safety and the movement, if that makes sense.

The safety and the movement. I like that a lot. And I Can you talk a little bit about the types of movement. And so, you know, some people, they describe, and it's probably really related to what dosha, that imbalance that they're suffering primarily with at that time. But some people, when they're really anxious, they describe to me, like, if I can just like, run really hard, I feel way better. And then other people are like, if I go faster than a gentle walk, I go into fight flight, freeze. When you're talking about movement, how do we figure out what kind of movement is best for us given our dosha?

Yeah, so with. Especially with like, this, like, flop response, we do. We need the safety aspect first. So if we feel totally dysregulated in our nervous system and we start to, like, try to run, then we're going to have, like, you know, more anxiety and more panic because we're just. We're continuously activating that. The, like, trauma response. Right. And so we do need to come down into our bodies first and foremost or to do something to. To ground ourselves, and then we can mobilize. And so for people who are like, okay, if I move too much, like, it's. It's terrible. I would say, you know, coming into your body.

My.

You guys know if you've been following us for a while, but, you know, if not, my favorite thing to do is to, to. To feel like we're getting back into our body is to literally put our hands on our body. And so feeling our hands on our body can help us to feel like, oh, yeah, I'm here, I'm grounded. Even if we just put a hand, one like a hand on our heart or our chest and just like, press the. The key here is to, like, press into our. Ourselves slightly so we have that pressure, because that pressure is what's going to feel really grounding you can put. You can put your hand on your shoulder and press down a little bit, not like, aggressively, because we don't. We don't want to bring in a bunch of pitta here. It doesn't need to be this, like, intense, tense thing, but just, like, a little bit of gentle pressure is super helpful for this. You could even do that while you're walking or while you're running. You could. You could literally do this while you're running. Putting a hand on your chest, putting a hand on your shoulder. Even sometimes people will walk and put their hands on their. The tops of their. The top of their heads or like, behind their neck. This is like, this is just a thing that people sometimes do without even thinking about it. And so you can do something like that that's just going to feel really grounding on your body. So that can be really helpful. And then if you feel like you want to move really fast and that is helpful for you, I would still recommend doing something to ground down as well. Because sometimes we get addicted to adrenaline. And they were in that fight response, and we're like, okay, I'm just gonna run it out until I'm exhausted. And that is not actually moving through the trauma, right? Like, that is just staying in the. The response until it's like, I'm so exhausted that I. That I do flop. Right? And so sometimes we. Sometimes when we have been doing, like, doing these practices, like doing a lot of exercise, like working out, that kind of thing, we don't even realize that we're still in that. That nervous system state of fight or flight. And so grounding ourselves back down is. Is really helpful, even if that feels good to us. Does that make sense?

I love what you're saying. Grounding as, like a first. First step is just like, let's just get out of the excess vata and balance it out a little bit. Make sure that we're grounded so that when we do do that mobilization that we're just not. Like, sending the rocket into outer space is like ground first and then go. I talked to an old teacher of mine, and he studied orthopedic medicine for a long time, and he taught me about using the nervous system to kind of unwind the way the body is going into these trauma responses. So here's another type of movement. And so when we think of somebody who's going into a trauma response, we often will see different iterations of kind of similar body language. And so you'll see, like, the fingers curl in. And so this is finger flexion. We see the arms curl up into a bicep flexion, and then the arms come in against the body. And so you have adduction, and then you have hyperkyphosis. Your head is down, your back is curved, so you're almost starting to put yourself into the fetal position. And so what he teaches about is doing activities that do the opposite and then come back, and then do the opposite and then come back. So, for example, if you start with the hands is open the hands and close the hands, open them. So you're doing, like, the gesture of a high five. And then make a fist and do that a few times. Maybe we'll just say four times, right? Nice and slowly. And then you can even rock your breath with it. So you. And then inhale as you open, exhale as you close. And then we would do that with the arms. So remember, we have the arms and that bicep curl. So you would exhale or you would inhale as you bring your arms out. And then as you pull them back in, exhale, inhale as you pull out. And so if you're not watching this, I'm kind of extending my arms with my palms out in front of me, open my fingers, and then pull it in like you're doing a heck, yes. Fist bump, right? And do that four times with your breathing. And then you might do that by extending your neck, like looking up and then looking down. You inhale and look up, and then you exhale looking down. And then you can even do that with your shoulders is you can put your arms up. Like in yoga, they call it cactus or tree. And then when you inhale, you put them up into tree and kind of push them back so that your chest is forward. Inhale. And then on your exhale, you kind of curl forward on your inhale. Cactus, tree. And on the exhale, you pull forward. And so what you can do is you can kind of invent this on your own is like, allow yourself to go into that fight, that the flight, the freeze, the flop, the fawn response. And as Hadley was saying is we want to ground, and then we want to do kind of a pattern interrupt, or we want to do something that breaks the nervous system as it's like trying to go into that fight. Flight, breeze is. This is a very good polyvagal reaction. And so you can do that while you breathe. And that's activating your vagus nerve, which will activate parasympathetic. It'll help you be more calm. And if you want a little bit more Guidance in how to do this. You can do qigong. This is the foundation of qigong. Or yoga, certain yoga nidras or trauma informed yogas. It's a way to do that. It can actually be a pretty fantastic cardiovascular workout. But I think it's nice because you're really focusing on unwinding and unlocking that physical, somatic bodily response to the trauma.

Yes. Okay. A couple of things that I want to point out here. One is I love that, that he was explaining to do this in a way that you're coming in and out of the response. Because a lot of times we think, oh, well, my body's doing this thing, so I should just do the opposite thing and force my body into this other, you know, this other position. And that seem like it would be like a logical way to do it, but that can actually like disregard like further dysregulate our nervous system. Because we're not honoring where our nervous system actually is. And then we're just kind of like forcing ourselves into something. And whenever you're, you feel like you're forcing yourself into something that is dysregulating for your nervous system. And so that's why, that's why a lot of times, I mean, in my line of work, health coaching, like forcing ourselves to work out, forcing ourselves to eat a certain way, forcing ourselves to do something. It's why it doesn't last. It's why that doesn't actually, in the long term, you're not able to continue doing it. So we need to come to this nervous system regulation state so that we feel safe to actually make changes. And so coming in and out of the positions that you were describing is like, like huge. You're, you're like slowly edging your way out and then you're coming back into safety and then slowly edging your way out again and then you're coming back into safety. And that is like that pulsation in Ayurveda. That pulse pulsation is called sponda in Sanskrit. It's, it essentially just means like you're coming in and out of. It doesn't have to be trauma response, but it's, it's a, it's basically a pulsation in any area of your life. And that's where we can actually get find healing. So that's the. I definitely, I wanted to point that out. It's super important.

I love that and I love the freedom to make it yours, you know, because so many people have taken something that feels very beautiful, natural for the body and then they, they monetize it, they certify it, monetize it versus you can just notice what your body does. And then the word you use, Hadley, I really like is impulse. In and out, in and out. And then it can help help break up that kind of metaphorical scar tissue, that stuckness and being in that state.

Yes, exactly. And that's what we have to do with literal scar tissue, right? Massage it out, move it, but not too much because then we can like open up the wound again or we can, you know, pull something right. Like so we have to, we have to do this in a way that feels regulated, that feels like we're resourced enough to be able to do this stuff. So that's why, you know, like putting a hand on your body while you move, all of that stuff is like you're resourcing yourself in order to be able to move through it. Then the other thing that you said is trauma informed yoga. There is such a big misconception that yoga is like the cure all. And you guys, like, I've been doing yoga for like 15 years of my life. I love yoga. Like Ayurveda is the sister science to yoga. Yoga is amazing. And the way that we practice yoga here in the west as well as actually how some of the different types of yoga that we think of, yoga asanas that like the different yoga poses and the yoga flows and stuff, a lot of those were actually developed in India based on British calisthenics to train boys, 12 year old boys to be able to fight in battle. Like some of these, some of these things that we're doing are not regulating our nervous systems. So, and there's a whole, there's a lot of history of yoga and that's not all of the, you know, that's, that's definitely not all of it. But a lot of the things that we're doing here with yoga classes and stuff are, are really helpful. And they can also, they're not like the end all be all for regulating our nervous system unless they are specifically trauma informed. So be very aware of that if you're hoping to regulate your nervous system with yoga classes.

I think that's a really important disclaimer. Thank you for emphasizing that. Because the body keeps the score, as Russell van der Kolk says. And so if you're touching that part of the body, you're moving or stretching or opening that part of the body, you want to make sure that it's being done in a safe, safe trauma informed place and that you have the resources that you need to be able to process and heal whatever is coming up and coming out.

Totally. Yeah. And even, like, the different types of poses and stuff that are. That we have in yoga, they're very vertical, linear. You're tucking your pelvis, you're cut. You're coming into a place where you're actually. You might be in more of a fight flight state. Because when we tuck our pelvis, like if in the deer example, when a deer is startled, it will tuck its pelvis, freeze, and then run. And the tucking the pelvis allows it to run. Right. And we hear this all the time, tuck your tailbone under so that you, you know, you have that straight spine and stuff. And there's nothing bad about that specifically. It can be really helpful to protect your spine and protect your back and all of these things. And that is a nervous system state that is more hypervigilant and hyperactive. So just being aware of that.

Oh, that's brilliant. Now I'm thinking it would be good to do an exercise where we rotate out your tail, put your tail between your legs, doing a rotation exercise of that. So. Wow, that's amazing. So trauma. Trauma anxiety, and the way that it's showing up and the symptoms that you might be experiencing in particular, fight, flight, freeze, flop, Fawn, and so Fawn. Tell us a little bit about that.

The last one. Yeah, so Fawn is. So this one's. This one's interesting because there's not a super clear, like, dosha to map out on Fawn. You see a lot of, like, people pleasing within both kapha and Vata. Vata feels a little bit more like. A little bit more like anxious people pleasing, where it's like, oh, like, gotta make sure that everything's okay versus, like, Kapha. People pleasing is more like mama bear, like, nurturing people pleasing. So there's a little bit more of that groundedness, but it still is not considering our own needs and considering everyone else's needs above our own. And so that's the case for both the Kapha and the vata. So kapha, it might feel a little bit more grounded, but it doesn't feel empowering. Right. So it's like we're just. We're giving our. Our power away to other people and not meeting our own emotional, physical, whatever needs. And so. So that's. That's what fawning is. Pitta doesn't typically play a ton into fawning, except unless it's more of a strategy to get what we want. Because Pittas tend To be more strategy minded, focused. And so, yeah, so we're going to want to kind of more address the vata and the kapha here and the people pleasing here. So, so what that might look like is like, well, first of all, getting out of whatever situation that's, I mean that's the biggest thing with trauma in general is whatever situation you're in, get out of that situation. That's number one. And then you can do all these other practices. But specifically with fawning, a lot of times we see that, that we're in this pattern or in this dynamic relationship dynamic or person or people where we've been in it for a long time. And that's why we're doing the fawning, because that's how we've adapted, that's how we've been able to survive. And so that, so getting out of that situation is going to be the number one thing. Yeah, so what's that?

Remove that obstacle to care if you're.

Yeah, exactly.

If you're actively in a trauma or a traumatic situation or in a relationship that's trauma inducing is you need an ectomy of whatever that is. If that's possible. Yeah. Sometimes that isn't possible though. So it's like, then what do we do? Like there's other solutions, right?

Yeah, totally. And also, sometimes, sometimes you will get out of that specific situation, but because your nervous system has adapted to, to that situation, you'll attract more situations that are like that or you'll just respond to situations that aren't even like that in a way that is like that. People pleasing that, you know, I need to fawn over someone else. I need to put everyone's needs above my own. Even if you're no longer in a situation where that's actually a survival mechanism. And so what we can do then is work on bringing in that fire, that pizza, that empowerment, that acknowledgement that we can stand in our own power and give ourselves what we need. And so, yeah, so introducing more of that like that activation, that fire, that, that power I think of like if you think of the chakras, it's like that solar plexus, which is that in your stomach and kind of where your confidence lies. If you don't know the chakras, that's okay, it's just an aside. But, but yeah, it's, it's power. It's bringing in power and empowerment. And I would say that's probably the biggest thing for the fawn response.

So if you're seeing a trauma, reenactment which I think is what you were describing, in essence, is like, maybe you were in an environment where you were with a partner and they were abusive, and then you end up in a new relationship. You got out. Thank God you got out. But then you're in a new relationship, and you see the same patterns are emerging. And sometimes we see that we do that because our brain or nervous system adapts to survive in, let's say, an abusive environment. And then that adaptation, if it hasn't shifted, then we're going to reenact in our future scenarios. And so while, yes, getting that ectomy we were talking about is important, but it should be done in conjunction with healing that. And so one thing that you just described, Hadley, that I really like, liked, is getting that fire, that confidence, and that personal strength. And as I'm saying this, I want to circle back to something that you said probably a year ago that's really important to consider, is that doshas aren't problems. Doshas are data. And we, in a perfect state of optimal health will have equal amounts of all three, and we'll have healthy, balanced levels of all three. And so if you're. Is that right before I go on?

So, yeah, so you won't have an equal balance of all three because we're born with, like, a certain constitution. So, like, for example, I have mostly pitta and then kapha and then a little bit of vata, but it will be balanced in whatever constitution you were born with. And you won't have the, like, negative aspects of them. So you won't have, like, the. The. The. So say. So if I'm in that perfect balance of pitta, I still have a little bit more drive than I would if I didn't have as much pitta. But I am not, like, inflamed. I am not angry all the time. I'm not, you know, I'm not being as perfect. Like, I'm not being a perfectionist, so I don't have those things going on, but I still have, like, all the superpowers of pitta. And so all of the doshas have these, like, superpowers and have these pitfalls. Right. And so, yeah, so. So balancing out your doshas doesn't look like making them all perfectly even necessarily, but it makes it so that the doshas themselves are. Are balanced in a way that it feels good. It just. It's about feeling good, really.

Optimizing your dosha.

Yeah, exactly.

Yes, optimizing your doshas. And so if you're finding that Your pitta is in a fawn. Like, you're just not.

Not.

Your pitch is not strong, and you need to bring it in. There is. There's activities and strategies that we teach about in our course, how to do that. And so. And that's kind of something that we haven't really gotten into a lot during this conversation that you're going to get a ton more in if you. When you end up taking the Ayurvedic course that we created, is. Is. Let's say that you are. You. You're somebody who's gone through trauma, and you take the eight types of anxiety quiz and you're like, oh, my gosh, it's total trauma anxiety. And you take the dosha quiz and you're like, oh, my gosh, I am, like, totally in a fight, and I'm in a pitch of state. Like, I am, like, angry and hot and I'm getting all of this eczema and I'm frustrated and I'm getting all these flashbacks, and I just. I'm so resentful. And so then the next step is that your symptoms have now given you all of this information about what needs healing. And then the Ayurveda course that we made gives you solutions on how to restore balance to your doshas. And so if you're in a pitta. Excess state, we talk about how to eat, what behaviors that can help your doshas get more balanced. We talk about herbs, different supplements that you can use. So as you're listening to this, we just don't have enough time during this conversation to get into all the solutions. But don't worry, we've done that so you can get them to just jump into the course and you'll learn all of that.

Totally. And it should be done in conjunction with the, like the, you know, seeing a therapist or seeing someone to work on, work through the trauma as well.

But.

But the Ayurveda mini course is super helpful for being able to balance and. And to. To address whatever dosha comes up for you most often when you're in. Whatever response you're in. So. So doing that together in conj. Healing your trauma response is like magic. Absolutely magic. All right, bye, everyone.

Nice to see you. And we'll see you next time for the thought anxiety. And we'll also be talking about neurological anxiety and endocrine anxiety. And we're super pumped. Thanks for everyone. Thank you.

Bye.

The recording you just listened to consists of the personal opinions of Dr. Nicole Caine, a naturopathic doctor with a master's in Clinical Psychology and Happy Healthy Hadley, an Ayurveda expert with a master's in health, Behavior and Health education. While these opinions are based upon literature, counseling education, medical training, and clinical experience, this content should not be viewed as the definitive opinion on these subjects. Listening to this podcast is not a substitute for any sort of medical, psychological or other form of treatment. If you are in interested a Crisis, please call 911-OR call the National Suicide Prevention Line at 1-800-273-8255. If you are in need of counseling, don't hesitate to make an appointment with a counselor in your area. Dr. Nicole and Hadley are passionate about you becoming the expert of your own emotional and physical well being. If this resonates with you and you think that this podcast would help someone you love, please share it with them. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode of the Holistic Inner Balance Podcast.