How Do We Evolve the Party? A Case for Alcohol Freedom | Ep. 74 (Audio Only)

Welcome to the Holistic Inner Balance podcast with Dr. Nicole Cain and Happy Healthy Hadley.

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Hello friends. Welcome to another episode of Holistic Inner balance.

This is Dr. Nicole and this is Happy Healthy Hadley.

We have a really interesting topic for today and I hope that you'll resonate with this. If you live in a culture where people consume alcohol or, you know, of a culture where people consume alcohol, or if you yourself consumes alcohol, then this is going to be a relevant conversation for you and I. I hope that we'll learn a lot of really cool stuff. It's not going to just be your average conversation about the pros and cons of drinking because Hadley has some really interesting things to share and I have some devil's advocate questions to ask and I think it's going to be really fun.

I'm super excited. This is a question that I actually get a lot from people. How do I reduce my alcohol intake? Because we do. I mean, I would say you were, you were saying like, you know, if you live in a culture that, that drinks. And I would say, like, almost everyone lives in a culture that drinks, right?

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's really, really relevant. And what I was saying earlier is like, alcohol is the only drug that you have to justify not doing. Right. Like, you know, you don't have to justify not doing, you know, cocaine or, you know, any of these other drugs. Maybe caffeine, caffeine would be one. But alcohol is the one where it's like, wait, why aren't you drinking? Are you pregnant? Do you have a problem with alcohol? Like, what's the, you know, what is it? And, and I've experienced this a lot because I actually will have been not drinking for four years in September. We're recording this right now in August. And so, and I'm not, I'm not here to make the case that everyone needs to give up alcohol at all, but I have not had a drink in that long and so I've, I've had to figure out how to actually navigate social situations and, you know, some different things. So I have some, some tips and tricks and also some valuable, hopefully valuable for you, information that I'm going to share.

I'm really excited about it and I so appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation, especially from a perspective of optimization of health, because I feel like commonly when this conversation is approached, it's from a completely different paradigm. There's a lot of alcohol abuse in my family history, and I like to go out and have a cocktail periodically. And yet I do have a desire for optimization of my health. I know that it isn't great for me. Although we're going to talk about what the Mayo Clinic has to say in pro of alcohol. And so I'm just really grateful that you're sharing your experience because I think it's coming from a very different angle than what we typically hear.

Yes, totally. Yeah. I think a lot of times it's like, you know, again, we're going to bring in the nuance. We always bring in the nuance here. So, yeah, I think a lot of times it's like, oh, you know, alcohol is bad or alcohol is good. There's like some different schools of thought with like, red wine or, you know, different. Different things. And so we're gonna, we're gonna talk about all of that and we're just gonna talk about, like, how do you actually feel? It doesn't. You know, I find that a lot of times health. Health advice is based on, oh, will you get this disease if you do it? Or like, you know, decades down the road, are you going to experience this? That's actually, you know, my background is in health behavior and health education and behavior change and all of that. And that is like, really just not that effective in actually getting you to change your behavior is like, telling you, here's what we're gonna do, or here's what's gonna happen to you if you do this thing. That's not really that effective. But, like, how can you tap into how you actually feel in the moment and, you know, allow that to affect your behaviors? And that is what we're gonna kind.

Of dive into today, which is really great because typically when someone's like, nicole, if you do this, then that will happen. And then my first thought is, challenge accepted. Y. I remember my uncle was really an. He loved smoking. He'd smoke a pack a day or more as a really heavy cigarette smoker. And every time he would see a billboard that was like, stop smoking and then show picture of lungs or something like that, he would, out of defiance, smoke another cigarette or maybe four, just to just be like, I prove you wrong. And while we believe that smoking is what ultimately was the cause of the end of his life at a very young age, smoking related illness, I do very much resonate, and I think some of our listeners do resonate with that. Like, don't tell me this kind of future forecasting is going to happen, and I refuse to not do something based out of fear. And so this conversation isn't going to be like that. It's going to be really refreshing, and I think y' all are going to love it.

Yeah, totally. I mean, it reminds me of, like, the DARE program that was wholly, wholly unsuccessful. Right? Like, just say no. And they just. Just tried to scare people into not doing drugs. And that's just not effective, you know? Like, it's. It's just not. And so, yeah, we're going to talk about how you actually feel in the moment or shortly thereafter. The more we can bring the conversation closer to the present moment of like, okay, in the morning, how am I going to feel? Or even, like, later tonight, how am I going to feel? Or even after this drink, how am I going to feel? And when we can get more conscious of that, that's gonna be a lot more effective and appropriate, I think, for changing behaviors.

Cause your body may tell you that I feel amazing when I have tequila. Or your body may tell you, wow, I had that vodka and I feel really sick to my stomach.

Yeah, totally, totally. And it can change with. Based on the alcohol that you drink, too. And so, yeah, we're just trying to kind of become more conscious of all of this stuff. That's kind of the goal around here, I think.

So tell me, make a case if you can. Or maybe even better is why, if you're willing to share, why did you make this choice for yourself? Like, what were the variables that occurred in your mind and in your life where you're like, about four years ago, you're like, I could be without this.

Yeah, totally. So for me, it was. I kind of was experimenting with not drinking once in a while here and there. I mean, I. In college, I drank a lot. Like, I used to drink. You know, it was. It was a big part of. It was like the mentality at University of Michigan was like, work hard, play hard, and there wasn't a whole lot of rest hard in there. But. Which is a story for another time as to why I was pretty sick. But I, you know, I drank a ton, and it was fun, and I didn't. It wasn't like I needed to drink. I wouldn't say I necessarily had a drinking problem, though. I don't love that term because, you know, it can be a problem in a lot of different ways, but. And, you know, we don't need to assign. Assign judgment to it, but. But I'll say that I, you know, I experimented here and there I would go for, like, a month. I would be like, okay, let's try a month without drinking. And then it would. I would have, like, a couple, like, two beers or something like that, or maybe two glasses of wine. And then I would just kind of be really curious about, okay, what happens the next day. I will say that I had really bad hangovers. By the time it was, like, the end of college, I would. I would be hungover for, like, two days rather than, you know, just like a few hours the next day. So that was a really big factor for me. You know, I did not. Not feel good. And then the other. The other thing was I didn't actually like who I was that much when I drank. So I would just be. I would become a lot more sensitive, and I would kind of pick fights a little bit more. And not like, you know, I wasn't getting into screaming matches with anyone, but I would just kind of be like, you know, a little bit more irritable. It was such a pitta thing.

Yeah.

Little jabs like, no, not as much of a filter, you know, and just taking other things personally, too. If someone else said something, I would be like. Like, you know, I hate this person or whatever. And so I just. I noticed that about myself. And actually, so I was doing this for a while where I would do a month here and there without drinking. And then I would, you know, bring it back in to, like, a moderate degree and stuff. And then I just realized when my parents were actually visiting me in Seattle, my mom and I, like, split a Bloody Mary one morning. And I was like. We got into some sort of petty argument. And I realized, like, that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't had. It was a half of a Bloody Mary. Like, it wasn't like a drunk or anything, but I was like, if I hadn't had any alcohol at all, I wouldn't have gotten into that argument. And so I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna be done with this, at least for now, until I wanna drink again. And so I haven't drank since then just because I haven't wanted to. I'm not like, oh, I will never Dr. I've had sips of different things just to try them and stuff. But that's kind of my story. And if you resonate with that, awesome. If you are like, oh, that's not really my problem, that's also great. That's just my one little story. So I didn't drink at my wedding. And it was the most fun day of my Life. I did not need to. I've also been told that I have a drunk personality.

I can so see that. Hadley and I, when we get together, it's just like, bubbly mayhem. I'm sure everybody thinks we're drunk, but we have, like, GRE juices or strawberry smoothies.

Yes. Or turmeric tea.

Right now, today we're having tea together.

It's a rainy day, so we're drinking some turmeric tea.

But, you know, there are pros to drinking, and so not everybody is bubbly and extroverted like you are.

Absolutely.

And so some people feel like if I'm not having a glass of wine or a beer or something like that, if I don't have any alcohol, I feel safe, so anxious, and I feel like I can't talk to people or I'm not engaged. And so what about circumstances like that?

Totally. Yeah. So I would say, you know, first of all, you don't have to stop drinking. That's, like, the number one thing that I want to make sure everyone is very clear about. I'm not saying that everyone needs to stop drinking. And the other thing that I would say is, like, get really curious about that. Like, why. Why do you feel like you need that in order to, you know, be social or whatever? And, you know, people are. You know, there are more people who are more extroverted and more introverted, and that's totally fine. And so one thing is, like, you know, if you feel shy or insecure or whatever, you know, kind of getting to what's the why behind that? And, you know, working to build up your confidence and stuff. And then the other thing is, can you be okay with. If you are naturally an introvert, can you be okay with that? Can you be okay with, you know, if you're at a party, just talking to one person over on the side, like, you don't have to be the life of the party if you're not. Like, if that's not natural for you, you don't have to do that. Yeah.

Kind of makes me think of the that girl conversation we had where there's this idealized archetype where we're all trying to be this person who has, like, the perfectly manicured hair and nails and no bad breath when they wake up in the morning and, like, the perfect little latte and sitting by the beach and, you know, this. This archetype that we imagine, which is, if I'm out, if I'm having fun, I have to be out, for starters, and I have to be Drinking for seconders, and I have to be really social for thirders. And what I kind of hear you saying is, what if you were to accept that perhaps that may not be your jam, and that's. And being okay with that, and maybe if you do choose to go out, is allowing yourself to be social in a way that feels good and natural for you, which may be like finding one person to have a really amazingly fulfilling conversation with.

Yeah, totally. I've actually found, you know, in the past couple of years that because I'm not drinking, you know, I'm more conscious of, like, do I actually even enjoy this? In the past, I've actually, like, sometimes I'll go to parties, or I used to go to parties and be like, is everyone else just pretending to have fun right now? Like, it seems like other people are having fun, but, like, I don't really realize, like, how they're, like, are they just pretending? And so I've been, you know, gotten really curious about that. Like, do I want to go out all the time? And the answer is, no, I don't want to go out all the time. But sometimes it's really fun. Even though I don't drink. Like, you know, I like to go out and dance and, you know, have fun with people and have, like, conversations with drunk people who are gonna tell me, like, things that they wouldn't normally tell me about themselves, you know, and.

Because you're sober, you're gonna remember.

Yeah, yeah. But I've had really, really good conversations with people who loosened up a little bit and told me things that they maybe wouldn't normally talk about. And. And I do enjoy that. But, you know, I've also been, you know, more nights in have also been really, really fulfilling for me as well. And I think. I think people are reevaluating this, especially with COVID and, you know, being forced to stay in. It's like, do I even enjoy doing this all the time? Right. And so it starts to. It's sort of a forcing function when you don't drink as much to be like, do I even like this? So that's just something to start to think about, for sure.

You used a term I'm writing down, forcing function. Can you talk more about what that is?

Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes, like, this is a. This is a strategy and behavior change. Science and habit change is like, okay, you can kind of, like, architect your environment to be more of a forcing function for you to make things that you want to do in the future to make them a lot easier for yourself. Or to make the things that you don't want to be doing in the future to make those a lot harder to do. So this is like one of the best examples I can think of right now is if you don't want to watch so much tv, taking the remote and putting it somewhere that's not right by the TV watching area, or even, you know, if you want to take it a step further, taking the battery out of the remote, putting the battery in one location in the house and then the remote in another location in the house. So you have to go get both of those things and put them together just so that you start to think about. It's a forcing function to get you to think, do I actually want to watch TV right now? And then you can decide either way. But it's not just a habit. That's. That's just automatic.

So I want to circle back to. We're making a case on alcohol freedom and how that, you know, the one thing, you know, I was talking about, challenge accepted is for me, it's like turning the top down, turning the tables and turning the conversation. Where I live in a culture where I go out and I have to justify not having an alcoholic drink. And so instead of saying, like, well, challenge accepted, I'm going to drink it and I'm going to feel great, as opposed to saying, well, challenge accepted. I don't have to comply to this societal norm, and I can actually enjoy being out and being a socialist. I feel like being. And then actually feeling good the next day. So I like that I'm kind of reframing as you're saying that. And the other thing that you mentioned in terms of leaning into the why is, well, why do I feel that I want to have an alcoholic beverage? And so we had the example of, well, it makes me more social because otherwise I feel really shy and embarrassed. And you are expressing, well, become really curious about that. What is it that's coming up for you? Because this might actually be an opportunity for deeper transformation, as opposed to ignoring it, denying it, allowing that to amplify, and then converting that with a chemical substance. But rather we're leaning into the message that's coming up in that opportunity.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I love how you said, you know, it is an opportunity to be able to think about that of again. It's like that. That forcing function of a lot of times we go through life and we're just. We're just going through motions and we're just doing what all of the people around us are Doing. I also love how you brought up the fact that, you know, you wanted to rebel against when, like, when health, you know, experts say, like, don't drink too much or don't drink, you know, whatever. But you could also rebel against the societal norm. Yes, yes. Like, and. And you can start thinking about, why do I even do this in the first place? And I think it is real. It becomes fun. I also have talked about this with some of my friends of, like, how do we evolve the party? So, like. Like, Dr. Kane and I have taken herb shots here, right? Yeah. So we're not taking shots with alcohol, although they do have some alcohol in them because they're tinctures. But. But, you know, taking, you know, taking shots together of, like, herbs or, you know, gut shots or whatever, or making it fun. It doesn't have to. Sometimes I see people, they become a lot more serious when they don't drink as much, and then life isn't as fun. And so they're like, well, screw this, like, I'm gonna drink more. And so how can you make life more fun every day instead of being like, okay, I have to work really hard right now, or I have to play really hard right now and just like, go nuts, party, whatever. How can you just make the. You can. You can make the work more fun. You can make, you know, your everyday life more fun and more pleasurable. And we've talked about that here before, especially for us pittas out there, who tend to be either very serious, like, you know, going really hard and at work, or going really hard in the park, party. And so how can we just make life more enjoyable in general?

And for me, as you're saying, how can we make life more enjoyable in general is. I feel like my main obstacle to that is embarrassment and timidity. Because if I act like a loon and I'm gallivanting around and being completely silly, if I can say, oh, well, that was just the alcohol, then people are like, oh, I've been there. You, Nicole, aren't actually alune. It's the alcohol. But if there isn't a substance there to bypass onto, then suddenly I have to own that. And so then the secondary question that comes up is like, okay, well, what's my problem with being perceived as silly and playful? And why do I have to have an excuse to laugh hysterically at something?

Totally. This is something that I've been thinking about since I was in high school. I really, really. When I first started drinking, you know, whatever, it was like, later high school, and I Remember being like, wait a minute, is everyone just using alcohol as an excuse to act the way they want to act?

Like, yes, I so feel that.

Right. And, and I was for sure. And so I was like, I wonder if everyone else is doing that too. Yeah, yeah. So I think I've even, I even noticed that sometimes now when I'm with people who are drinking, I will, I will be like, oh, well, I'm sober right now. Should I, you know, should I act so silly? And so, you know, just like off the wall and then I'm like, yeah, I should. That's what I want to do. That's not what I thought you were going to.

I thought you were gonna say no.

Yeah, I should, I should act that way. So, yeah, I think giving, giving ourselves permission to act the way that we want to act, like whenever we want to, you know, and obviously there are situations where, like, if you're in like a professional setting, you don't want to like act in a way that's gonna make other people feel like super uncomfortable or whatever. But there is also, I believe in a professional setting, very much space for being silly. And I think there needs to be a little bit more of that, you know, imbued throughout professionalism too, to an extent, to an appropriate extent. And so, yeah, so bringing that into our everyday lives, that makes the need for alcohol go down a lot, I think.

I really like that. And I've been thinking a lot about this, Hadley, about how a lot of literature, a lot of what we see being published, for whatever reason, there's this movement towards upmarket or dramedies or things that have this heaviness. And I think part of it is that there's this societal, this maybe humanity's need to compensate, complete the trauma loop that we're all in this collective trauma together. And so by consuming media that puts you in a state of fight, flight, freeze, and then actually can complete the loop by having a conclusion to a novel or a book or a television series. It can feel very therapeutic for people. But I have seen that there's been this giant shift away from just like pure light hearted comedy. And if I do see comedy, it's oftentimes really dark comedy. And so I feel like maybe we're not even getting the conversation anymore to see what it feels like to be really lighthearted and really joyful. And so we see that with alcohol. But what's interesting about alcohol, as opposed to other substances that are more euphoric and mood lifting, is that it often does for some people Especially depending on the type of alcohol has this, this edginess to it. So it's kind of like mirroring what we're seeing in the media and we're seeing in the consciousness as being played out in literature. So I was just thinking about that.

Such a good point. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I love that you brought in like the fact that we are playing out these trauma loops that we haven't been able to complete for ourselves. And yeah, I think I see that all the time. I think there are very few light hearted things right now that are like actually good. Right? They're like, I will say TED Lasso if anyone wants something light hearted, like please watch TED Lasso. It makes your heart feel so full. That is the. My family is like, this is what everyone needs right now. Is this show highly recommend. But. But yeah, I think you're right. I think especially in the past two years, three years, four years, life has gotten a lot more serious. I think the ethos just at least in the U.S. but also, I mean I lived in Europe for eight months. I would say it's everywhere. It has gotten a lot more, a lot more serious. And so I do think we need to bring in some of this like childlike play rather than the like edged like in darkness humor or like, you know, I think, I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of awareness around anxiety and depression and different mental health challenges that we're facing, which I think is a really great thing. And then sometimes we co opt it and we make it this like edgy, angsty, like pop thing and that becomes the zeitgeist for everything. Which is basically like if you don't know what zeitgeist is. I didn't know until I was like in psychology classes. It's basically like the water we're swimming in. It's like we don't even think about it as like a thing because it's just so normalized. And so that's kind of what we're in right now is like this edgy, angsty thing and everyone is kind of doing that. And so yeah, I think alcohol kind of amplifies that for sure.

And it fits into the conversation. So it allows us in a way that is resonant with the zeitgeist. It allows us to amplify that with a twist of some freedom of emotional responsibility, of being in coherence with that.

Yes, totally.

So I can be silly and I can be a loon and it's okay.

And I can be Angry.

And I can be angry. And I can punch a hole in the wall, which I've never done.

Yeah.

But I could.

Yeah. And I can blame it on the alcohol.

It's the alcohol.

Blame it on the alcohol.

I love it. I feel like half the time when you and I are talking, we, like, bust into songs. We were quoting Elf, the movie, before we hit the record button. I'm sorry you missed it.

Yeah.

So as you're listening to this, I want to circle this back to you. The listener is how. What is your relationship with alcohol? Maybe you don't abuse alcohol, Maybe you don't feel that there's a habit of using alcohol. But let's look at it from the perspective of what role is it playing in your life? And is there an opportunity if we were to take away that role? If that role or that. If the alcohol wasn't there, what is underneath that may be data on an unmet need or on an unprocessed trauma loop or a message about the zeitgeist that you're in right now, or your cast of characters in your life. What are your friends and the people around you? What are they expecting of you? Who do they expect you to be? And are you in alignment with your truest and highest self? And is alcohol pushing you more in alignment, or is there a possibility that it may be pulling you out of alignment?

Yeah. And that's when life gets really interesting, is when we start to inquire about all of that, I think. And it becomes a lot more interesting than partying.

So much more interesting than partying.

Yeah. It's really fun. And then it evolves, the party. And then you're like, having all these really, like. Have you ever been to a party where everyone's drinking and you just talk about, like, small talk or you talk about other people? That's like the classic thing, right? Like spill the tea. Right. And. And then when. When you start to get more conscious about why am I doing this, like, who am I hanging out with, what am I? What's behind this need? Then it becomes so much more interesting. The conversations become, like, sparkly. And I love that. So that's what it's been like for me, at least.

And it doesn't have to be really philosophical, you know, because I also want to be mindful about not creating a counterculture of over intellectualism and philosophizing as a bypass. Right. Because, like, half the time, you and I, Hadley, we're just like, laughing and telling about life experiences and dreaming and planning, and it's a delight. So there could be a real richness.

Yeah. It doesn't have to be serious. Like, you're serious. Sparkly, like, fulfilling conversations don't have to be about, like, your deepest life's, you know, desires or your. Your problems and, you know, challenges in your life. They can be totally. And I. I find that the less I use substances, the more I can, like, go really deep into something and then come right back out and go really high up into just, like, goofiness and then go right back down. And you guys probably see that when we're talking on here, right? We just, like, bust out laughing and then go into something really, really serious, and we can kind of shift that back and forth. And I think without alcohol, I've been able to do that more.

I do see fluidity in you, for sure.

Why, thank you.

I talk about it as the sticky factor, and I really appreciate that. You know, you think of a rubber band, and, you know, the rubber band allows you to stretch and then retract and stretch and retract, and I feel like the human psyche is often like that, and the heart is like that, too. When we think about cardiac health, one of the best metrics of cardiac health is heart rate variability, which is essentially the stretchiness in can your heart speed up and can it slow down? So it's like a yoga heart. It can go there and can come back. It can speed up, slow down. It's very versatile. More heart rate variability is more cardiac health. And I see that in the way that you live, Hadley, and I really respect and admire that about you.

You're so sweet. Thank you so much. I mean, I think you bring it out of me, so.

Which is so ironic because I feel like I'm kind of the opposite. Like, I feel like I am. And I think it's. It's my trauma, it's my suffering, but I feel like I tend to be more rigid.

I see. Oh, my gosh. I see the. I see the stretchiness in you, for sure. Oh, my gosh.

Stretchiness, y'.

All.

That. That's. That's true. That's my sparkle. You bring out the sparkle. And if we were just drinking together, then maybe there wouldn't be that same.

It's a depressing. So it can dull your sparkle.

It can dull your sparkle.

Mm, it totally can.

So what if I feel like I want to have the benefits of alcohol without the trade offs? And so I'm listening to this conversation, I'm like, okay, you have my attention. What can I do instead I'm gonna go out on a Friday night. I love these people. They see my sparkle, they're gonna have some cocktails because they haven't heard this podcast yet. And I would like to do something different. So Hadley, when you go out, what do you do?

Yeah, so I, when I first started, you know, this whole non drinking experiment, I really, I really relied on, you know, drinking something else, having, you know, another fun thing. And so one of. And I still, I still do a little bit though. Now I can just go out and drink, drink water while everyone else is drinking. And that's, that's fine now just because I'm used to it. But when I first started it was like, okay, I gotta have something that's like a little bit exciting, right? And so a lot of times I would drink kombucha. That would be one though. That was a little bit, a little bit much for my pizza to drink. Too much of it though. I did. One thing that I'll do sometimes is like do sparkling water with a little bit of kombucha. So I have like that flavor. But it's not, you know, so much because drinking an entire bottle of kombucha is just gas. Yeah, it's not great. Which could be another topic for another day. But yeah, so. So I would do that. Or right now I have been drinking just sparkling water this summer during pitta season where, you know, sparkling, iced, sparkling water. It's the only time I really drink iced drinks with like a little bit of pomegranate juice. And so there's like a little bit of that sweetness and it's just really, really refreshing. And sometimes I'll put a little lime or basil in there and it's like so freaking good. So that's kind of my go to right now. I've also made like really good lemonade. That's awesome. And I'll make that. So obviously if I'm going out to bars, I don't do this, but you know, I've gone to parties before where I'll make like a lemonade or a mocktail and people are like so excited about it. They're like, this is so good. And then, and then they get excited about not drinking too. Honestly, they don't just spike it sometimes. Sometimes they do. I'm like, yeah, you could totally add alcohol if you want. I will say that people have. In the past four years, people have come a long way. When I first stopped drinking, people would get kind of almost like upset with me. They would be like, oh, come on, like, seriously, you're not going to. And like, they would try to convince me to. I've seen that that doesn't really happen anymore. Partly because people know, oh, Hadley just doesn't drink. But partly also because I think, like, times are changing and, you know, people are shifting away from it a little bit more. But the other thing you can do if you don't want to tell people, like, I quit drinking or please stop.

Asking me if I'm pregnant.

Yeah, right. Yeah, that's the other thing. I think servers a lot of times assume that I'm pregnant, but. But, you know, you can tell people like, oh, I'm just, you know, I'm just not drinking tonight. Or the other thing is like, oh, I'm good for right now. Because, you guys, the thing I've learned from this experiment is people don't actually care about you that much.

What?

What?

Mind blown mic drop.

People do not really care what you're doing. You know, they might feel like you're judging them, but if you just are confident in the fact that you're just, you know, not drinking right now and you don't have this like, judgmental attitude of like, oh, well, I don't drink, but, you know, I see that you do. Right. Then people won't care that you're not drinking. I see this like a lot of times with food choices and stuff too, like gluten free or vegan or whatever, keto. People don't actually care if you have like a certain food choice that you're making, as long as you don't make them feel bad for not making that decision. Right. And so, so, yeah, so people don't actually care that much. And having a good go to phrase is really, really helpful, especially when you're first starting out. It's like, oh, yeah, I'm just not drinking tonight. Or like, one other thing is like, people are like, so are you just never gonna drink again? And I'm like, I don't know, like, I will when I want to. I just haven't wanted to and so I haven't.

I love that.

Yeah.

So adding not now, it kind of takes this foreverness out of it.

Totally. And it makes it a lot easier for you to do it too. Because if you think about, oh, well, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do it perfectly and I'm gonna do it forever. And this is, you know, this is not for people who actually, like, have alcoholism. You know, it's. It's for people who are, you know, experimenting with this, you know, obviously that's a different conversation, but yeah, taking the pressure off of it is huge. For actually being able to make the behavior change.

I love what you're suggesting in terms of alternatives like the kombucha, the pomegranate, the bubble water. There's also the curious elixirs. We have no association or affiliation with them, but they are a company that their whole thing is shaken, not slurred.

I love that so much.

The best. It's the best. So then you can have this feeling like I'm being included in having a delicious cocktail without the trade off. So I really like that.

Ooh. One other thing is put your drink, whatever you're drinking in a wine glass and then you feel like an adult still, at least.

And even better, add a toy. Yeah, put a toy in my drink.

Yeah, right. Put a little umbrella in there. Like make it it fun so that it's not like you're missing out on something if you're not drinking.

That's the thing for me is the deprivation because I've tried to do cleanses and fasts and things in the past. And for me, it's like everybody else, I look around, everybody else gets to have food, but I'm fasting or everybody else is having a glass of wine. Why can't I? And so I think doing, for me, doing the work on this feeling of deprivation and where that's coming from is really important to me because I don't want to choose to drink from a place of avoiding deprivation feelings. Yes. I want to do it because I feel like it will give me bliss and it will help me get to where I want to be. And I don't want to be doing things to avoid going where I don't want to go.

Exactly. Yeah. And I think also shifting your mindset toward abundance here is huge. And I talk about this with food, with my clients all the time is like, how do you actually look at this situation from a lens of abundance? Like, oh my gosh, I get to put this little umbrella in my fun little non alcoholic drink and I get to feel awesome tomorrow and today even. And kind of looking at it from like, what are all of the things that I'm gaining from this rather than what am I depriving myself of? Is huge. And sometimes it's easier said than done. But it's kind of like a muscle. You kind of just have to strengthen it little by little and then you kind of can just become a little bit more intentional about things in your.

Life, essentially, which Circles back to what I was going to say about the Mayo Clinic.

Yes.

And so I was looking at how is alcohol beneficial? And so then the Mayo Clinic talks about the pros and cons of moderate alcohol use, which they're defining moderate as 12 fluid ounces of beer, five fluid ounces of wine, or one and a half fluid ounces of a distilled spirit. That's like 80 proof, they're saying.

Right.

So that's moderate, which isn't really a lot when you think about how much people drink when they go out. But that's neither here nor there. But they're talking about. So some of the pros of moderate alcohol use could be possibly reducing your risk of ischemic stroke. And there's no reference. And so when we look at the conversation of an abundance versus a deprivation mindset, is. Is possibly reducing my risk of ischemic stroke going to give me abundance? Is it going to give me life? Or is it possibly reducing the likelihood of something that I'm trying to avoid? And maybe there are other things that could do that better.

Yeah, right.

Right.

It's.

And I think it's the latter. So it's not a great case.

Yeah, there are also. I mean, there's. We want alcohol to be good for us.

Mm.

You know, everyone kind of wants that to be the case. Right.

Like, we're looking and hunting. Like, maybe it will. A glass of wine will.

But. And. And, you know, I'm not here to say that, like, it's not good for us. You know, like. Like, there are. It's pretty split down the middle from what I've, like, researched and stuff. There's. There are a lot of studies saying that it's not. There are a lot of studies saying that it is in, like, extremely moderate, like, small amounts. Right. Which usually people are not drinking just that amount when they. When they do drink because, you know, more is better. Right. So, I mean, and I do think, like, in Ayurveda, actually, there is, you know, some. It's like, some alcohol can be good in certain situations. Like, it can be medicinal even. And, you know, mulled wine during, like, December, like, I think it's like, 3 ounces of mulled wine is really great for your liver, actually. It can. Can be a liver decongestant. But you guys, 3 ounces is such a small amount. No. And so, you know, I don't think there's, like a. There is no hard and fast answer of whether or not alcohol is beneficial or if it's not beneficial. I think Also bringing it to the question of how do I actually feel? And be honest with yourself. Don't be like, well, I feel fine. You know, I feel fine when I drink. Be honest with yourself. Do I feel, you know, achy the next day, or do I feel like I don't love the way that I act when I drink? Or do, you know, get really, like, clear on that? And, you know, if not, if you're like, I want to have my 3 ounces of mulled wine at Christmas time, like, awesome. Like, I love that for you. And, you know, if you want to drink a few drinks, I love that for you, too. Whatever you want to do. But just being, like, mindful and conscious and making the conscious decision to do what you want to do is a lot more empowering than just being like, this is just what everyone does. Or, I have to do this in order to feel social, or I have to do this in order to avoid deprivation. Motivation. Choosing to do it because it's what you intentionally really, really, really want to do that makes it so much more empowering. And there is no right or wrong, good or bad here. You know, it might be healthier or not as healthy, but there is no, like, morality on this, I don't think.

I feel like that is brilliant. And I have nothing of greater value to add than what you just said. That was amazing. So we're talking about how to evolve the party case for alcohol freedom. And so I feel like this is going to be a really grand experiment, and I'm going to try to see how I feel. I'm going to lean into it. I'm going to notice my body, I'm going to be really mindful, and I want to make choices from an empowered place, and I want to make choices towards bliss, towards abundance. And so I'm really eager to learn about what that looks like for me. And I'm really grateful for you sharing what that looked like for you.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm excited. Maybe we could start a hashtag, like, evolve the party.

Evolve the party.

And then you guys can share your experiences with us. Share it on Instagram or Facebook or whatever and tag us and hashtag evolve the party.

Yeah, we'd love to hear. What do you think?

Yeah, yeah, let's open up the dialogue and have a conversation about it, because that's really what it's about. It's not about, you should do this or you shouldn't do this. It's about, like, you know, what feels good for you.

I love it. Thank you so much, Hadley. This has been amazing.

Yes, thank you. Always a pleasure. So much fun.

See y' all later.

Bye.

The recording you just listened to consists of the personal opinions of Dr. Nicole Cain, a naturopathic doctor with a master's in clinical psychology, and Happy Healthy Hadley, an Ayurveda expert with a master's in health behavior and health education. While these opinions are based upon literature, counseling education, medical training, and clinical experience, this content should not be viewed as the definitive opinion on these subjects. Listening to this podcast is not a substitute for any sort of medical, psychological or other form of treatment. If you are in a Crisis, please call 911-OR call the National Suicide Prevention Line at 1-800-273-8255. If you are in need of counseling.

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