Psychobiotics are the New Probiotics - why you may consider switching | Ep. 70 (Audio Only)

Welcome to the Holistic Inner Balance podcast with Dr. Nicole Cain and happy healthy.

Hadley, your go to resource for natural mental health and wellness strategies so that you can become the expert of your own emotional and physical well being.

Merging modern science with ancient wisdom. Welcome. Welcome back. We are so excited to have you here and today we are going to be talking about psychobiotics. I'm super excited to learn about this because all I know is that it's probiotics for your brain, essentially. That's right. And so we're gonna learn a ton from Dr. Kane today. So let's get into it.

Psychobiotics.

Yes. Okay, so do you want to give us like a working definition that's a little bit better than what I just said?

Your working definition was genius, actually. I like how you can distill things down to make it really simple. But psychobiotic is broken down into the word psycho and biotic. Psycho is in reference to the psychology, or psychoactive, meaning it acts on the brain. Yes, your mood psychology. And then biotic is in reference to bugs. Microbiota, the probiotics. So bacteria that are good for your brain.

Amazing. I love it. So how can we learn from this? How can we? What kinds of psychobiotics are going to really be good for us? How do we get them? What do we do?

Let's talk all about the psychobiotics.

Yeah.

A great resource for you listening is to look for my name, Dr. Nicole Cain, and then Psychology Today. So if you just google Dr. Nicole Caine, psychology Today, you're going to get access to a blog that's being posted by Team Omnibiotic and you can see a ton of great content on this. So as I'm teaching about it and you want to see it in writing and read more, this is a really great blog and there's graphics and references and tons of resources. So if this is an interesting topic to you, then definitely check that out. This conversation is for anybody who has gut bacteria, which is, by the way, everybody. Yes. And this conversation is especially for those who have anxiety or depression or brain fog or bipolar or kids who are having a difficult time focusing or if you've gone through adverse events or trauma. This is a great conversation for you because the psychobiotics actually get to the root cause of an imbalance by healing the gut and healing the brain.

So this might be like a super new topic for a lot of people. Right. Like we're just, you know, most people now know, like, okay, probiotics, those are good. The microbiome. This is a thing we're all like on board with this right now. But how does the, you know, the psycho component, how, how is it that what we are eating impacts our brain? This is all mind body connection stuff, which I love.

How we're eating and how it affects our brain is so important. And so I actually, I'm doing a lot of writing on this topic and I want to answer your questions by reading you just a little excerpt of a real case that I had because I think case studies could be really interesting for people. And just so you know, for you listening, I'm changing some information. I changed the name on anybody that I ever talk about in here. We've changed details just to protect their identity. So if you're listening and you're like, oh, is she talking about me or somebody that I know, it's unlikely because enough has been changed where it would be purely coincidental. So just so you know. But let me tell you about Matthew. And so Matthew, he had an extreme phobia of passing gas or defecating in public. And so this poor gentleman, he had such extreme worry about this that he would very rarely go out in public. And if he did, he would cover himself with cologne just in case there was an errant odor that came from him. And he would always plan his trips around making sure that there were facilities nearby. But the facilities had to have a private bathroom. It couldn't be a big bathroom with multiple dolls. So the anxiety, the phobia around this was so great that it was impacting his life. And so like many of us, all of this started for Matthew when he was a kid. There was an adverse event. Something happened and it started all this. And so here's what he said to me. He said I was a generally carefree third grader. My class was about to go on stage and sing at a school wide concert, but I felt super anxious and sick to my stomach. I felt the gas building in my abdomen and I just wanted to go to the restroom. But the teacher said it was time to go into the auditorium. So I let the air release. But it wasn't just air that came out. And he goes on and he says, I soiled myself and the kid in line behind me had a fit and I was traumatized. That event changed everything. My gut, my anxiety, my. I have never been the same since.

Oh my gosh, that's so sad.

So we have this person whose body is telling them that they need to evacuate their bowels, that they need to go to the bathroom. He's anxious at the same Time, they're very likely related because anxiety in the brain can change the bug's behavior in your gut, which then changes the brain. And so they feed into each other, or it could have been separate. And then he had a traumatic event. And then now those two things are very associated. So he has this trauma that occurs. And so he goes to all sorts of doctors and they give him mood stabilizers, they give him antidepressants. They're trying to help with the anxiety. But the argument is that the anxiety is really valid because the brain cataloged bowels. They're not safe. My bowels can rebel and do something terrible at any time. So now I have to be hypervigilant. And so if we try to suppress that anxiety and take that anxiety away, the problem isn't being solved. And the nervous system is going to try other creative ways to solve that problem. So when he took that medication, he got worse. And so then they're trying him on medications used for IBS and mood, like Amitriptyline. And he wasn't getting better. So now he's on all these different medications. He's on a proton pump inhibitor. He takes Tums. He's always taking stool. If it's constipated, he'll take a stool softener. If he's having diarrhea, he'll take Imodium ad. He's on just polyphosphor pharmacology, and he's not getting any better. So there's something going on with the gut brain axis, and I call this gut anxiety. There are eight primary types of anxiety that I see. And anxiety that tends to live in the gut and the brain is gut anxiety. But really it's also an overlap into trauma anxiety, which is anxiety that came from a traumatic event. So he has kind of a double whammy here. And so I explained to him, your brain, your gut, your life experiences are intimately intertwined, and a stressful or an adversive experience can trip a series of responses that affect you head to toe. And so this was Matthew's introduction to the Gut Brain Access into the world of psychobiotics. And so I would love to I'll tell you what happened to Matthew later. But, you know, you started asking for a little bit of data, Hadley, about what are psychobiotics, what are these bugs? And generally speaking, we have. Here's a reference from the Psychobiotic Revolution. It's an amazing book by Anderson and the researchers Kryon and Dinan. They are the forerunners in the relationship between the gut and the brain, specifically pertaining to the bugs in the gut. And so they teach about how we have over 100 trillion trillion microorganisms living in our body that they call, that we call the microbiota. And so what's really fascinating about that is that we inherit our microbiota from our ancestors and that it's as unique as your fingerprint. So the bugs in your gut are unique to you. They're not the same as your sister's, they're not the same as Todd's or mine. Like they're so unique to you, like your fingerprint, they're like your snowflakes.

Yes, I love it.

They're living in there.

They're little bacteria snowflakes.

Yeah, you're bacteria snowflakes. They're living their best life in your gut. And if they need, are very capable of telling you that. And so you know, Dr. Or Scott Anderson, he says that some of your deepest feelings, from your greatest joys to your darkest angst, turn out to be related to the bacteria in your gut. So they control everything. And so the way that they act is these little critters are living in your gut and they act by communicating messages to your brain and then your brain can chat back. It's bi directional. So if we go back to Matthew, Matthew is having some anxiety in his brain. That anxiety signal is conveyed to his gut. His gut was like, I'm not feeling so good myself, conveyed that message to his brain. And so they're now associated together. And then we have an effect where he lost his bowels involuntarily past wind stool, came out and now he's had a traumatic event, or I call it an adverse event. And so now these two are paired together and it's created mayhem for the rest of his life. Right. And so what's really interesting in thinking of solutions for Matthew or solutions for anybody who has trauma anxiety that's manifesting as gut anxiety is that if we go in and we have a little chit chat with the bugs in our gut, it can create a monumental impact on the well being of our gut, of course, but also on the impact of our brain. And then it creates a domino effect. And so dominoes. I don't know if y' all listening these days know what dominoes are.

Yeah, really.

But back in the day they had these, you know, little rectangular blocks and they just kink, kink, kink, kink, kink, kink, kink. And it just go down and down and down and create this trickle down of events. And so Your gut, it regulates your mood, it regulates your neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters are mood altering neurochemicals, like maybe you've heard of dopamine or serotonin or acetylcholine or adrenaline. Right. So your gut regulates that. Your gut regulates your immune system. In fact, I think they say upwards of 90% of your immune system is made in your gut. Just outstandingly large. Your gut regulates inflammation via the immune system. And we've all seen how research on inflammation can impact head to toe and hormones.

Yeah.

And your gut regulate your hormones. Yes, and regulate your hormones like your thyroid hormones. Gut bugs are required for normal thyroid hormone function and your cortisol hormone. So your gut bugs can tell your brain to turn on your cortisol, turn off your cortisol and your sex hormones. Your gut bugs can help the way that you metabolize estrogen and testosterone. And in fact, women with high levels of estrogen have different gut bugs than men who have lower levels of estrogen. So there's a gender preference with our gut bugs.

So, so fascinating.

So they do all of the things. And so back to psychobiotics. What Anderson wrote about in the Psychobiotic Revolution, based on the research of his Irish colleagues, is that we used to use more of a big net approach in probiotic prescribing. We just give people broad spectrum probiotics, like throw spaghetti at the wall. If you take a bunch of these bugs, hopefully something will help. We know that a lack of microbial diversity is associated with more symptoms head to toe. We called that dysbiosis, an imbalance in the microbial diversity or a lack of good diversity. So they knew that and they're like, okay, well, we'll just give you a broad spectrum probiotic and hope for the best. But these researchers in the last 10 years or so is they've actually been able to identify this bacteria and this strain specifically of this bacteria are able to have this effect on the brain.

Wow. I did not know that we were there with technology yet. That is amazing.

It is so amazing. And so I want to teach everyone here listening today, there are seven key research strains of psychobiotics for panic and anxiety, and I want to teach you those. And I'm also going to be publishing some of this content on the Psychology Today blog, so you can check that out there. The words are really weird and the strains have strange numbers. And so just bear with me as I'm explaining this and you'll see it to come to the end and then just Circle back is the end of the conversation that a lot of people are going to want to know is like, that's nice. It's got Bifido Breve. Okay, but where can I buy it? Yeah, and I do have favorite probiotic companies that I work with. And so. But the most important thing is to make sure that it's the right fit for you. So I just want to put the disclaimer, like, talk to your doctor and make sure that this is the right fit for you and you'll have better success if you really match your particular needs to the action of the bugs for you. So I love. So full disclosure is I do write for this company and I do consult for this company. So just so you know. So I do have a little favoritism towards them. But I love Omnibiotic. They are amazing. And so I'll provide a link for them. But just full disclosure that I do consult for them and provide them lots of data. But let's be real, they're amazing. They have a product called Stress release, which is what I used in Matthew's case. And we'll tell you about that later. So the seven strains. So number one is Bifido Breve. And so when we think of strains of bacteria, think of it as like horses. So I have Bifido breve. And that means horse in this metaphor.

Okay, yeah, perfect.

But we have different strains, so we have different types of horses. Right? So we have like Palominos and Clydesdales. So you have like all these different horses and that represents the strains. So if you get a probiotic and it says Bifido breve on it, but it has an inactive strain or a strain that hasn't been well researched, or it just doesn't do the same thing, you may think that, well, I'm taking Bifido Breve. Why aren't I getting those results? And it may be the wrong strain. So if you're trying to get a Clydesdale, but you get a teeny tiny little mini horse, it's not going to.

Do what you want it to do.

It's not going to do what you want it to do. You're like, why can't it pull this cart? Well, it weighs 75 pounds or whatever. So Bifido breve, there's a strain, and again, these have crazy long names, but it's CCFM1025. This strain in the research has been shown to relieve anxiety, it reduces inflammation cells, it actually helps balance your endocrine system to bring down overactive cortisol and so if you have high inflammation, high cortisol, this strain of this bacteria may be good for you. So if you do a blood test, your cortisol's through the roof. If you do an ESR on your blood test and a high sensitivity crp, these are two blood tests measuring inflammation. If those are high, you probably would benefit from this specific strain of this bug.

Awesome.

So the next one is bifido longum, and there's many different strains that can be helpful, but R0175 will actually increase GABA. GABA relaxes us. So if you feel really anxious and you're trying to support gaba, or if you're tapering down on benzodiazepines and you want to support gaba, but you don't want to directly stimulate those GABA receptors, you can bypass that with Bifidobacterium longum strain R0175. It can reduce anxiety, it can lift depression. It can help you if you have a benzo taper and you have anxiety and depression mixed. So they can be really specific, right?

Yeah. That's awesome.

All about matching them.

That's so cool. Yeah. I did not realize that we were at this place in technology yet. So we have arrived at the future. The future is here.

The future is here, and you can actually change, Change your life by supporting your microflora, which is so cool. And so, generally speaking, when you take a new probiotic, give yourself 30 days. Because it's kind of like if you buy a new couch and you sit on the couch and you're like, oh, that's harder than I thought it was gonna be. But, you know, after you've bounced on it for a while and, like, shifted around and sat on it, and like, a month later, you're like, oh, the cushions have broken in a little bit. This is a good couch.

I love it.

It's the same with your bugs. In your gut. Is there, like, moving in? The other bugs in your gut are like, who are you? I'm not so sure. So there may be a little bit of mayhem. And so sometimes signs of a new probiotic starting to take effect is you might feel a little bit more gassy, a little bit more bloated, maybe a little nausea, a little indigestion. If it's not too problematic, then kind of work your way through it. Just maybe dial the dose back a little bit or take it with more fat food. But after about a week, you should feel better. And then they really start to hit their stride at about one Month. So give it a month. And then typically a treatment, I would say a duration is of average, like three months.

Awesome.

And then just see how you feel.

So I have a question. What are some other examples of the. Of gut anxiety that you were talking about? So this person Matthew obviously has like a very specific situation going on for himself. But, like, is like, is IBS related to this? Because I see, I'm like, oh, yeah, that would be like an IBS thing where people are, you know, they have anxiety and that impacts the IBS and vice versa. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Cool.

You can't hear it on the audio. Maybe you can, but I'm nodding vigorously as Hadley is talking. Yep, you hit the nail on the head. So gut anxiety is anything that is manifesting your gut that has to do with autonomic nervous system arousal or anxiety.

So it's like probably a lot of the autoimmune issues that we're like. Well, we don't really know what the cause is, but it has to do with your mind maybe, right?

Oh, it's all in your head.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh. Yeah.

It's probably actually all in your gut.

Yeah. Right.

So if anyone says like, oh, your anxiety is in your head, like put a comma and be like, actually it's more in my gut. Because I guarantee you, if. If I could do nothing else with my clients, but just one thing, I would want to just do gut. Just focus on the gut because it controls everything.

Yeah. So cool. And guys, not to bring in. Bring Ayurveda into literally everything, but please do. Ayurveda is all about digestion because without digestion, nothing else works. So Ayurveda has known this for 5,000 plus years.

And we're just catching up.

So cool. Yeah, we're just catching up.

We talk about this like every time. About how. So cool. How it is so cool that we keep proving scientifically what Ayurveda has known. Has known forever.

So cool. Yeah, so cool. I love it. I love the marriage of the science and Ayurveda.

And what's really interesting, if we kind of try to marry Ayurveda with your microbial balance, is that your microbes will tell us what state of imbalance that we're in. And so if you have a bunch of yeast in your gut, candidiasis candida, then you're going to crave. Those yeasty bugs are going to be sending up signals for all the food that they crave. And yeast like sugar. Sugar. And so if you're in a State of imbalance causing yeast, or if you ate all of the sugar and now you have yeast, you're going to want to lean into what is going to perpetuate that. And Ayurveda says that. I learned that from you, Hadley.

Yes.

So if you're in a state of kapha.

Yeah. You're going to want more.

You're going to want more kapha. Imbalancing things. And so Ayurveda, like, really stinks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So cool.

It is so cool. So I won't get into the detail of the rest of these because it is a little bit complicated. And I think it's just so nice to have it in writing and in front of you. But I want you guys to think about Bifido breve. That was the first one we talked about. Bifido longum was the second one we talked about. Remember the gaba, the depression, the anxiety. And then there's also Lactobacillus strains that could be really good. So Lactobacillus plantarum is amazing omnibiotic in the stress release that I just kind of hinted at. That strain has W62, which has been studied. They actually looked at brain studies and they showed that there was improved emotional decision making, emotional memory processing in people who had anxiety and stress and took Lactobacillus plantarum.

So cool.

So it's not a placebo if you're looking at it. And, like, the brain's actually changing. It's so cool. Right. So we have Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactobacillus helveticus, Lactobacillus Casey, and two more Lactobacillus rotary and Lactobacillus rhamnosus. So finding a probiotic if you feel anxious or if you feel panicky that has these strains that I just listed in it can make a huge difference. But give it 30 days.

Amazing. And so we'll put the link to that in the show notes, the article that you're referring to.

Yes.

Awesome.

Yeah, it's really fascinating. We want to feed our bugs, too. So if we kind of circle back to Ayurveda prebiotics.

Right. We need to have prebiotics to feed the probiotics or the psychobiotics.

Exactly. And the psychobiotic is a probiotic. It's just we're getting more specific and you want other probiotics too. So for example, we need things to nourish the bowels.

Right.

And so it's like if you want to have a beautiful house with green Grass. You got to water your lawn as well as feed the people who live in the house. Right. So we want to feed our bugs and nourish the bowels.

Yeah. Well, also, if you can't poop, you're gonna have some mental health struggles.

Fact.

Yeah, I've been there, like, if there, like, one day where I can't go or, like, can't go, like, all the way, and I'm just, like, grumpy.

And have you ever had it where it just, like, occupies every thought in your mind? Like, you can't just be free to, like, think about other things because you're like, I have pooped. Like, what am I gonna poop? How am I gonna poop?

Right.

How long is this going to last?

Yeah. And you know, your. Your hunger cues are, like, totally messed up. You have no idea if you're hungry or full because you're full of stuff.

Waste. Yeah. Yeah.

And that all of that is toxins that are then recirculating through your body. So we should do one on constipation. We should do a podcast. A full podcast.

Love. Yes. Yeah. And hormone imbalances. You were touching on this. I think that it's really important because there's specific bacteria like Clostridia, that if you're not detoxing and having daily bowel movements and getting those bad bugs out and letting your good bugs replenish themselves, and those bad bugs are just growing and growing and taking up more space. Closurtia will reactivate estrogen. So your body will make certain amounts of estrogen. It'll metabolize out the problematic excess estrogen, dump it into your bowels, and that's how you remove. But then if you have these little critters that are in there because you're not pulling up, having bowel movements or you have dysbiosis or whatever, then your estrogen can be reactivated and you can have signs of estrogen dominance. So your doctors are, like, trying to change your estrogen pills or give you supplements, but, like, really go to the gut.

You guys. One of the habits that I coach my clients in is specifically on, like, pooping every day, all of the pooping. So we will definitely do a podcast on that if you guys want. Yeah. And yeah. So, okay, so should we get back to Matthew? Should we find out what happened to Matthew?

So Matthew did a couple of things. One, and actually it's a three step process. And I have kind of created this three step process by reading Trauma Informed Neurobiology. So I want to acknowledge I'm standing on the shoulders of giants like Peter Levine, Dr. Russell van der Kolk, Bruce Perry, and then also forerunners in trauma work like Francine Shapiro and Marsha Linehan. You know, all these wonderful people who I really respect and admire and taking their work and learning about trauma and learning about neurobiology and learning about the gut. Thank you, Anderson et al. I'm so grateful for all of your work because then we've created this kind of three prong approach and so prong one, I call this the peanut butter and jelly sandwich approach. And so the peanut butter and the jelly are actually addressing your nervous system, addressing your body. And so the peanut butter is usually of a pharmaceutical route. So if you're having panic, peanut butter would be take a benzo or an antidepressant. If you're constipated, taking Miralax or a ton of magnesium or vitamin C, something to address the problem. But then the jelly is the naturopathic Ayurvedic, traditional Chinese medicines, stuff that supports your body actually healing. And so psychobiotics like let's replenish your good gut bugs Triphala. It's an ayurvedic wonderful product that Hadley and I talked about a little bit that just like balances your Ayurvedic doshas, nourishes the bowels, detoxes, removing obstacles to cure all of that. So that's the jelly. Trophorestoratives for the brain. Restore the tissue of the brain. Herbs like Avenus ativa heal the gut with herbs like carminatives that support digestion, like chamomile. Right. So that's the jelly, but then we have the top piece of bread and the bottom piece of bread. So we talked about the goo in the middle, and we have the two pieces of bread to make this whole sandwich that Matthew did. The top piece of bread is he had to go in and treat the trauma. Yeah, he had a triggering event, like a majorly traumatic event, especially at that age, at any age. Let's be real. Losing your bowels in public is mortifying when you're in third grade and your entire life is your social life. And, like, creating pure relationships is devastating. He's humiliated. He felt powerless, out of control. And so I sent him to emdr. And for those who aren't familiar, EMDR was created in the 1980s by Francine Shapiro, and it is the number one form of therapy that is used for adverse events or traumas. Trauma treatment and insurance covers it. So, win, win. We could talk more about EMDR on a separate podcast, a different time. He treated the trauma. So top piece of bread, you gotta treat the trauma. Middle piece of bread, we're supporting him. He took the stress biotic by omnibiotic. He did some herbs. We made him a happy gut healing herbal blend. And we talk about that a lot in the membership. Like, how do you make your own herbal blends and what herbs do what? And then the bottom piece of bread is retraining agen. Well, with trauma, one of the biggest things is that it steals our power, steals our agency. So your autonomic nervous system, when something bad or scary or troublesome is happening, is it goes into the state of like, I have to get freedom, I have to run away, I have to fight. So you're trying to get agency, but if your situation is such that you can't get agency, you're stuck, you're powerless, you can't control it.

Yeah, you're not allowed to go to the bathroom.

You're not allowed to go to the bathroom because the teacher's like, you gotta go on stage. So he was powerless. And so part of the work that he had to do is to reclaim his power. So Bruce Perry talks about this, and what happened to you with Oprah Winfrey is he talked about doing like a high ropes course or climbing a rock wall or doing other things that help your autonomic nervous system activate where your heart rate is going up, your breathing rate's going up, you're feeling a little nervous and freaked out, but it's completely in your control so that you can complete that loop. So I'm going to climb that wall, I'm going to get a little freaked out, and then when I need to stop, I can climb down off that wall. And so you're retraining your nervous system to finish that loop. So that that third grader self that was in Matthew, who couldn't finish that loop, who's now just stuck in this vicious circle, he can now clear the trauma, heal the gut, heal the brain, and finish that loop. And that's the three pronged poach that he used that I'm writing about in my book.

Amazing. The peanut butter jelly sandwich.

Peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

That's such a great way to think about it. I love it. I love it.

Delicious, right?

Yeah. Right?

So psychobiotics, I feel like there's so much more to talk about, but, like, really that I feel like, is the bones of this new, amazing technology that we have for you to heal, to get to the root cause of why you feel the way you feel and actually heal.

Yes. Amazing. Okay, so listeners can check out omnibiotics.

Yep.

Check out your article and see which one of these strains or which ones is it.

You know, they work well in companionship with each other.

Yeah. And so you can check out the article, see what kinds of things you need. Specifically talk to your doctor and see which ones you can get so that you can start to heal your gut and your brain.

And do it in conjunction with what Hadley said is prebiotics. And so if you're like, what is a prebiotic? The best prebiotic is fiber. So, like psyllium, husk, veggies, like all of the fibers, Vegetables.

Yes. Yes. And even, like, you know, beans and grains and stuff are great as well.

Yes.

Fiber. So basically, if you're eating, like, all natural foods and stuff, you're gonna get.

Enough fiber and your bugs will be joyful.

Yes.

And they'll send up happy signals.

Y. Yes. Or not all natural foods, but mostly. Mostly non processed foods. Then you're gonna get enough. Enough fiber. You won't have to take, like a ton of fiber supplements or whatever. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so we've got our. We've got our action steps for you guys. So go ahead and do that and let us know how it goes after a month. You know, take it for a while and let us know. Let us know what. What you experience.

Thank you so much. It was fun to get to talk about this. As you can tell, I'm, like, on fire. I'm so jazzed for all the gut bugs. So thanks for listening.

I love it. Yes. Your. Your fire is contagious. I'm excited for the rest of my day now.

Yeah. Let's go eat some. Let's go eat some bugs.

I know. Let's go eat some bugs.

Thanks, everyone.

Bye.

The recording you just listened to consists of the personal opinions of Dr. Nicole Cain, a naturopathic doctor with a master's in clinical psychology, and Happy Healthy Hadley, an Ayurveda expert with a master's in health, behavior and health education. While these opinions are based upon literature, counseling education, medical training, and clinical experience, this content should not be viewed as the definitive opinion on these subjects. Listening to this podcast is not a substitute for any sort of medical, psychological.

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