The Link between Migraines and Anxiety with Dr Meg Mill

Hi, darlings.

This is Dr. Nicole. And today we are going to be talking about neurological anxiety, specifically migraines, headaches and anxiety. And we're going to be exploring what the link is between why you have anxiety and headaches and what's one of the underlying mechanisms of why this actually happens. And so if you deal with migraines, if you deal with headaches, if you get tension headaches, then this is going to be a really great conversation for you. And I'm so excited because we're actually going to be joined by a headache Expert. This is Dr. Meg Mill. And she and I actually got to connect through a mutual friend of ours, a conversation. And she agreed to be on the live today. And we'll be, of course, saving this conversation so you can come back and check on it anytime that you want. And so, Meg, you're here. I'm so excited to connect with you. Hi.

Thank you so much. It's so great to connect with you too, Nicole.

I was just telling the audience about your passion and your expertise in headaches and migraines. And we're going to be kind of bringing together the relationship between our mental health, anxiety in particular, and this phenomenon of headaches. And so I was hoping that as we get started, you could tell us a little bit about yourself and your passions and what brought you to this area of focus to begin with.

Sure, absolutely. So I'm a functional medicine practitioner and I have a virtual practice where I see people from all over the world. And in my practice when I started, you know, I see people from all different reasons, but I started to notice this pattern. And I have to say, particularly in women coming to me that were saying like whether they were coming for headaches or whether it was something that, like we do a very detailed intake questionnaire when they start. So whether it was that or whether they were doing the detailed in question intake questionnaire, I would hear them saying, oh, I've been getting headaches for years. I've, you know, has suffered with this my whole life. And then I was like, wow, really brought to light how many people are suffering from headaches. And then we'd work together and they would tell me again that like, oh, wow, I'm, you know, I can't even believe it. I never thought I would be without headaches, kind of given up hope or I just thought that was the way I think it's normalized a lot of time for people. So they just feel like, oh, this is part of my life. This is how I have to live. And so to really see the difference in the transformation. And their life was so amazing when they didn't have to deal with the headaches anymore. And I knew it could happen, but I kept seeing it over and over with. With people. So then I thought, wow, I want to reach more women, more people in general. But I just see it, like, so commonly because of. Because of different things like hormones and other aspects, particularly where women are suffering for a long time and told by so many people that they have to when they don't. So that's the kicker.

And so you have this blending of your passion with the results that you're actually getting. And that's really encouraging when you feel like you have solutions to bring to the table and that you see people actually get better. That's pretty incredible.

Yes. No, absolutely. And that's, I think, what we all want, you know, just that that is really lights me up. When I work with people, I say, you and I both want the same thing. Like, my. My dream and your dream are the same. We want you to feel better. And I think being in a place of medicine where I'm, you know, where I'm sure you're seeing too, where, like, when we're seeing that transformation for people and seeing people actually feel better and be able to live the life they want to, it really is amazing.

So somebody comes to you. Let's say that they're struggling with migraine headaches or tension headaches. They just know that their head hurts, and they're also coming into you, and they're dealing with depression or anxiety or intrusive thoughts. There's an emotional component. What are some of the questions that you might ask them to try to get to the root of why they're feeling the way they're feeling?

Yeah, well, so we. We ask. It's interesting because all of the, you know, when you're saying the anxiety component, there is a component of headaches that have. With serotonin. And so then, you know, we all know that that's a huge component with anxiety. And then you can even bring that further. And there's a component with how serotonin is made in your gut. And so I think that when we're looking at where we. What we do with what with. When I work with people is kind of flip it upside down. And instead of, I think people label, like, oh, I have migraines, or, oh, I have this, you know, I have tension, or different kinds of headaches. And we're focused there, but instead we focus on what's going on underneath. And I think people can be amazed that their gut health, you know, you can when you're pulling those layers back, you know, you're looking at anxiety, you're looking at headaches, but you could actually have gut health in there that can be a connector even for both things. So it's, it's really like we do a really detailed intake and get into the. All those details and then start kind of peeling the onion back to see where, where it is for that unique person.

So part of your deeper dive is going to a similar thread in the gut and extreme, exploring the relationship between our mental health and our gut and of course neurological health and our gut. And I think that is really fascinating and I was hoping you were going to mention it is, you know, one of the, one of the more common types of medications that we use to treat migraines are the. It's called triptans and they work by modifying serotonin levels. And so, you know, when we think of mental health, we think of anxiety. Somebody goes to their primary care doctor and they're dealing with anxiety. That doctor will often recommend a serotonin modifying drug like Zoloft or Lexapro. And if somebody comes in and they have just chronic migraines that aren't being managed by over the counter, a doctor may recommend a triptan, like a sumatriptan or Rel Pex or something like that, or they may even recommend an antidepressant for their migraines. And so then what really makes the work that you're doing unique and what I think will be really helpful for our conversation today is to really explore getting to the root cause of why are we anxious, why do we have headaches? What's going on in our guts.

Yes, I know, because. Right. It all begins in the gut. I was on.

All begins in the gut. It is.

I was on a.

Joining the conversation. I don't know if you guys could hear her in the background. She just wanted to say, yes, it's all in the gut. Yeah, well, no, it is.

It's interesting talking about headaches and we're like, oh, wait, we're actually talking about gut health because they're. So you're saying that common thread with, with anxiety and, and with headaches and with the gut and. And that's also how we absorb, like we absorb all of our nutrients. So I think that is another component is sometimes people can focus so much. You know, there's so much out there on diet and diet is so important. But if you're not you can eat the best, most perfect diet. And if you're not absorbing it, then you're in it, like digesting and absorbing it, then it's not actually being. Getting the benefit that you think you're getting from all the effort you're making. So once you really get to the root cause of all, like, you know, getting the imbalance and then, you know, seeing what, what imbalances are going on, what causes it, what is your immune system activated because you have food sensitivities in there that are, that are going on. And all these different components lead into, you know, that both anxiety and headaches. Now, do you see a lot of your patients with anxiety also suffering from headaches?

I see this super commonly and oftentimes it's kind of like what you were just describing is inflammation is a big part of the conversation. And so we see this right now with this virus going around where there's this inflammatory process that's being amplified. And so then I'm seeing anxiety get much worse. I'm seeing head pains get much worse. And so I'm kind of curious about, Eager to learn from you about kind of your starting step. So somebody who's listening to this right now, they're like, yep, I. I totally vibe with that. Maybe it's one of your clients or my clients is actually listening. And they're like, yep, I have headaches and I'm anxious, or I have headaches that I'm depressed. And so let's come up with maybe a few take homes that somebody listening right now could start implementing right away. Where would you start in helping somebody, like, get to that root of the gut?

Yeah, well, so I think one of the things I have people start doing is actually, I think, because this can pertain to headaches, but this can also pertain to anxiety. And then we will deep dig. Dive, sorry, dig deeper into the gut. But one thing is that I do say sometimes to print out a calendar. And I know you don't want to, like, track everything all the time. It can be overwhelming. But if you have a headache or even like you're saying an anxious day, you know, look at what you've eaten that day and the day before. I say have them look at what they've eaten that day and the day before. And then I also have them look at their stress level, their anxiety level, their sleep level, anything like change in your environment, because, you know, those. That way you can start figuring out your triggers. So we want to know, we want to piece those puzzles, like, together and Bind your triggers. And food sensitivities are another thing that can trigger headaches in particular and have to do with the gut. And that's activating our immune system, like we're saying. So all these different factors. But food sensitivities can happen four to 48 hours after you eat the food. And I think it just becomes very confusing for people. I think so many people have sensitivities to foods that they're not aware of because, you know, you could have acne, or you could have eczema, or you could feel anxious, or you could have a headache, and you're not even thinking, oh, that's my gut. That's the food, that's immune response. You're seeing all these symptoms and looking into those different things. But, you know, it's when we dig in and find the actual root, we're looking at. Well, that could actually be triggering what, all of this. Yeah.

As you're saying this, we do have a question coming that I think actually piggybacks really well with what you're describing. Is the relationship between the gut keeping track of what happens, and is that something that could be contributing to my headaches or my mental health? And so the question says is sometimes when I eat, I get palpitations. Is this digestion? Is it vagus nerve or something else? I have some thoughts about that, but I'm actually super curious too, since this is your zone of genius, what you would say.

Yeah, I think that it could be. You know, there are different. It. It kind of depends. I'm gonna say depends on different factors. So, you know, it could be. It could be vagus nerve. I. I would say that from the pal. The palpitation aspect, you also really have to. The other aspect that I think this brings up, it's a little bit of extra step. But also we talk about something called eating hygiene. And what. Where are you in a parasympathetic or sympathetic nervous system when you're eating? So, you know, I think we're all eating on the go, too. And you can eat while you're in the parasympathetic nervous system. And then your. Your blood's not in the rest and digest mode, which can also affect something like that sort of feeling. What.

I 100% agree with that is I think that's exactly the kind of stuff that, as, you know, we should be writing down. It's like, okay, I eat something and I get palpitations, and every time I eat this food, I get palpitations. Or is it every time I Eat. I get palpitations regardless of what I'm eating, and then starting to identify patterns because the body is trying to give us data about opportunities for healing. And so if you're starting to notice patterns and trends, these are the things to write down so that it can be taken into consideration with that larger picture. And one thing, Meg, that you were pointing out is the importance of sensitivities to certain foods. And it can have an immediate reaction, or you said it could have a delayed reaction. And so that's why we want to start looking for trends. Because it may not be like, I eat an apple and I palpitate, or I eat an apple and I get a headache. It may be I eat an apple and then 48 hours later, I get a headache. The other thing that could be happening, too, is with digestion, if there's a little bit of a herniation in the stomach, it can create palpitations. And so, you know, making sure that who you're seeing is aware of the physiology of digestion, I think looking at that can be really helpful. So I really, really love that. And so I'm kind of curious about what your second step would be, because number one is really good, and we can all start doing that right now. So number one is to just start keeping a log of, generally speaking, when you're getting your headaches, what's happening when you're eating, what would your second thing be?

I think I tell like that the next two steps that are free, you know, that are free and easy, you can do without any practitioner deep diving are hydrate, because I think people aren't hydrating enough a lot of the time and don't realize the effect that dehydration can have on your body. So, you know, particularly when it comes to headaches, you know, making sure you're getting a good amount of hydration. And the other next one would be sleep. Because I think those are two very basic things in our life that we don't always prioritize. You know, I. And I think really putting a mirror up to how. What, like what your stress level is, what you're, you know, how much sleep you're getting. I did have someone come to me that was saying, you know, we're saying, oh, I sleep well, and I, you know, get a good night's sleep. And then we were digging in, and here, like one day a week, she was staying up almost all night to catch up, and she didn't even know because it was just like, well, other nights I sleep, I'm not paying attention to the fact that now, this night I'm just doing all these things and my kids go to sleep to catch up. And in your body doesn't like that. So, you know, even little steps, we know that there are like, you know, studies that show that, you know, variations in REM sleep can increase headaches and, you know, even anxiety levels and different things. So those are just things that you can do that are really easy. But taking a look at your life and adding them in, I want to.

Piggyback on the sleep thing. So metabolically, your body will actually convert serotonin into melatonin. And so one of the ways that we regulate our serotonin levels is by regulating our circadian rhythm or that sleep wake cycle. And so with that client that you were describing, if their serotonin levels are stable and then they miss an entire night of sleep and then they oversleep, suddenly we see this giant fluctuation in what might be happening with their neurotransmitter serotonin. And that can cause anxiety, it could cause depression, it can cause headaches, it could cause migraines. And for those who just got into the conversation earlier, we just described that there is a strong relationship between anxiety, anxiety and serotonin levels, headaches and serotonin levels. And so we've been talking about three pieces of advice that you can start using right now to try to get to the bottom of your headaches. And the first one you said is keeping a log, especially of food and what you're eating, when you're eating, sleep hygiene. The second was to make sure that you're hydrating. And of course, one of the common causes of headaches is just straight up dehydration. Most of us are dehydrated. And then the third is making sure that you're getting enough sleep. And so a question that I'm commonly asked is if I have a headache, is it okay to take something like a Tylenol or an Aleve, or am I actually going to be creating worse headaches in the future? I was wondering if you could speak to that.

Yeah, so I'm. I understand. I would say, you know, so I guess there's two steps. What we, what I work with as people is to get to that root so you don't get the headaches anymore. But I understand that, you know, sometimes we do. You could try things like pepper. Peppermint oil is one that, you know, helps a lot of people. You can put that on your temple, put a cloth on, go to quiet Room, you know, do whatever you can. Even taking some anti inflammatory like curcumin, um, it sometimes can help people just because that has getting inflammation down. Now I get though that sometimes it just doesn't cut it and you have to take the Advil or the Tylenol or something just to get through the pain. Especially if you're in a situation that you just, you need to. But you know, really try to limit that as much as possible because the, the next thing I would say is I do see people come to me with consequences of having taken that Advil or Tylenol, you know, for, for years and years or long term. I mean if you're taking it, if you're taking it more than a few times a year, you have something chronic going on. So it's like, you know, I think people are like, well, I take it once a month or I take it every, you know, and you're not thinking like I'm taking it every day, but you're still taking it enough. I mean, we know, you know, back in the early like 2000s when everybody, we like Advil is a cyclooxygenase inhibitor. So we know that that has impacts on, particularly on gut health and gut lining and everything. And then, you know, they created the Cox Twos because they wanted, they, we, we knew that was a problem so we tried to create a different drug. And then that increased heart risks 33% or more. So now, you know, then those were pulled off. So like I feel like we know, like, you know, it's one of those things. We all know there's risk involved, but because it's over the counter, I think people think like, oh, it's over the counter, I can just take it, I don't have to worry, worry about it. And that's really not true. So I would advise people to really take a look at, you know, if you're taking either Advil or Tylenol regularly, what is going on that you need to take them and what can you fix that you don't have to take them anymore and have those, you know, side effects with your gut, with cardiovascular liver. Tylenol is a liver toxin and if taken too much, So I think that is a rescue, not an, not a regular.

Absolutely. I really appreciate that you mentioned that because it can be a trade off. It's like sometimes we just have to do whatever we can do to have relief. Because I've had, I'm sure you have too, had patients who just ended up in the hospital because their migraines are so bad they can't stop vomiting and you know, they end up dehydrated or, or with other symptoms. And so if your pain is so severe that you can't function, then do the life saving measures. That's why they're there. But make sure you put a comma at the end of that sentence and do the deeper digging to figure out, okay, well, what is my body trying to tell me? Why are we experiencing these headaches to begin with?

And I think another too we were talking about earlier with, you know, the connections and then the next connection, I think when you have both the serotonin can be connected in the, and the headaches or our hormone hormones. So like hormonal headaches and everything can be a big factor for people. So really paying attention to like, do you get your headaches at ovulation? Do you get them at your, you know, right before your period? Where is that hormonal imbalance? And that's something we can, you know. So I guess what it's like, I want to reach people to say is that all these things we can fix, we can help you balance. So it is. There's answers that I don't know that are being given all the time.

And a lot of people ask questions like, okay, well, what can I do for headaches? What can I take for headaches? And I just urge the conversation to go beyond that. We can take a Tylenol or you could take like, turmeric is amazing for headaches. We can take white willow bark. We can take an antidepressant. You could take whatever it is. But by changing the conversation just a little bit and saying, well, I can take these things, but what is this thing actually doing? And is this thing getting to the root cause of the why I'm feeling this way to begin with, which again, to kind of continue circling back is like really the bread and butter of what we do here in my business, my practice, my passion, as well as what you're doing, offering to people. And so, you know, we've been talking to Dr. Mang Mill and I just was hoping that you could tell us a little bit more about what you're offering and how people can reach you in case they're dealing with headaches. And they're like, okay, I need, I need this deep dive. I'm really interested.

Yes. Yeah. So I have. Thank you. I have a virtual practice. So I see people all over the world in my one on one practice. And then I actually am just working with a small group. I'll try to keep it intimate because I'm right there with them. And I. It's a program called Headaches, and I think I got glitched out my office. Wi fi can be crazy, but I have a group program that's. That just is called Headstrong Happiness Beyond Headaches. You can find out more about that@happinessbeyondheadaches.com and my website is Meg Mill, just www.megmill.com. and that's where I actually offer free consultation. So if you're someone who thinks, oh, you know, is this me? Is this right for me? How does this work? I like to actually talk to everyone before I work to them like we work together, because I like to get to know you, what's going on, and make sure I can help you in the best way. I'm also on here on Instagram @Doctor Megmill too.

That's wonderful. So if you deal with headaches, if you deal with anxiety, your body is trying to give you symptoms to help you to heal more deeply. And it can be so frustrating sometimes I get headaches too. And the urge is always to just take a naproxen and, you know, lay down on my couch and just chill and, you know, so I get it. I get the need, I get the desire, the urge to do that. And make sure that you also spend the time to talk to somebody who can give you some support in finding out why. It could be hormones. You know, there's relationships between estrogen and progesterone and headaches. There's also relationships between adrenal hormones and headaches, thyroid and headaches. And so you really want to see if there's something underneath of it that your body is asking you to heal. And all of these same things could be creating the anxiety and the stress, too. And so we started the conversation looking at the gut. And so that's one thing you can start doing right now today is make sure you follow Meg on Instagram and check out all the cool stuff that she is going on. But also start loving on your gut a little bit. Make sure that you're, you know, eating in a way that's loving and nourishing and healing. And so if it didn't grow in the earth, it might not be something that would go well in your body. It's just a little bit of a guideline that I like to. To use. But before we finish up, Nick, is there anything else that you wanted to share with audience?

I think we, you know, comfort, I think, you know, I think just really getting in Touch with yourself. I'd like what you said. If it didn't grow on the earth, you're probably being loved by your body. And I think just really getting, you know, trying to become more aware of what you're taking in and how that's affecting, and really recognizing that those symptoms are just something underlying, like a head, like the headache or even the anxiety symptoms means something else is going on. And really looking into what that could be can make a huge difference, because then you don't have it anymore. And I just. I just want people to know that, particularly if you're told, you know, I hear all these, like, I want to say, like, horror stories of people being told, you know, you have to live with this.

This is normal.

You look like a picture of health when there's stuff and you don't have to. So you just find the right person that can help you.

I love that you said that. Actually, that's really important and is deserving of being emphasized is if you're listening to this conversation and you've been to the doctor and they run your basic labs and they tell you that you're a perfect picture of health, there's nothing wrong with you. But if you are suffering, if you have headaches or maybe you have gas and bloating, or maybe you have muscle pains or maybe you have panic attacks or irritability, whatever it is, if you have symptoms and your doctor is telling you you're a picture of health, then they just haven't done the research to find out why. And so you are worth getting the why answered. Sometimes it's a little bit more tricky, and it takes a little bit more time and a little bit more digging, but you are worth it. You are worth finding the why. You can feel better. Meg, you started this conversation telling us a little bit about how you. You're so passionate and excited about people getting better. And actually, as we're finishing up, could you actually share a victory story or a story of hope and then we'll end this call kind of on a happy hope note?

Yeah. Yeah. Do you like. You mean about headaches, particularly? We can do.

I love that. Yeah. Like, your headaches can get better. And here's the story of how.

Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, I have people all the time that come in, too. But, I mean, I remember one particular. You know, she had mom that had little kids, and she was so struggling because she was having to rely on other people for help and really not being the mom that she knew she could be and should in her mind should be. And so. And then, you know, you can also have that complication of relationships with spouses because they don't understand the pain you're going through. So I hear that all the time too, where it's like you feel so alone and in your pain and then often having to take medic. You know, she was taking medications on top of that for the migraine, still getting breakthrough migraines and suffering from side effects. So, you know, once we really got to the root and we, you know, got her body back in balance and everything, you know, and I would say this is probably a sort of a common story, but, you know, then they. It's like, wow, I don't have migraines anymore. I can be who I want to be and live the way I want, live the way I want to without having side effects, without feeling alone, without feeling like you can't be the person you want to be. And that's, I think, where the real victory comes in, you know, and even planning, particularly with headaches, sometimes people feel like I can't plan my life because I don't know when I'm going to be struck. So it's like being able to plan for you, like take a vacation and feel like I'm not. I'm going to feel good.

It's like going beyond not having headaches, but actually being able to show up in your life from your true and most authentic self and have the freedom to be spontaneous and play. She was able to be a better mom and I imagine a better spouse and friend because she wasn't suffering all the time anymore. And I think that's amazing. It's life giving and I thank you so much for your work and helping people in such transformational and creating courageous ways. You too.

Thank you so much.