Why We Suppress Anger (debrief of previous episode) | Ep 112

Foreign. This is Dr. Nicole and Happy healthy Hadley. And we are the Holistic Inner Balance podcast. And we are all about helping you to become your own emotional wellness experts. We blend integrative medicine, trauma, informed neuroscience, Ayurveda and all sorts of other modalities that really brings you into the place where you can become the master of your own mental and emotional well being. And we did a really profound session last time and Hadley and I were debriefing on it and actually decided to just record our conversation. And so we're just going to let you listen in and hopefully you love it if you didn't catch the episode. We actually did EMDR on Hadley. So we did the meeting place exercise and Hadley was brave and brilliant and vulnerable. And so today is going to be a reflection on some of the surprises that came up and just the brilliant conversation that we had. So we hope you love it and thank you for listening.

Yes, we really wanted to dive deeper into the conversation on anger because that was what came up for me was. And I was really surprised by it because I had been telling Dr. Kane beforehand, like I was feeling all of these things. Anger was not something that I mentioned at all. Like, not even close to anger. And then when we did this exercise, anger came up. And so we wanted to talk about how a lot of times anger, we might not even realize that we're feeling as much anger as we are. And a lot of times that's because we don't feel like we're supposed to. Supposed to. Especially as women in our society, we might feel like we, we need to have a handle on our anger and keep it small and keep it hidden. And you know, subconsciously, obviously we don't consciously think that, but a lot of times we just think that anger is not welcome. And so we just don't feel it or we think we don't feel it. And I know that that's been really, really big for me, especially as someone who has a lot of pitta in her constitution. And so we wanted to just debrief on all of that, all of the things that kind of contribute to anger potentially being a prominent emotion for you and also potentially being on an emotion that you then try to ignore.

And I'm wondering about the word anger too, where. Because oftentimes anger isn't an acceptable emotion that we use other words, but if we actually go deeper in it is what you're experiencing actually anger. And so there's something called an emotions wheel that is often used in emdr. I created my own Iteration. I call it the emotions diamond. And so it might be kind of fun if we look at the emotions wheel and see what some of these deeper emotions are. Are.

And so I also love that you have an emotion diamond, because we love a diamond.

You know that I love all of the shiny, sparkly things. Sparkles. Yeah. And so that hasn't been released yet. That's going to come out with my book. So I'm going to screen share. So if you guys are watching the video, you're going to see the screen share. But then when you get the book, I think the diamond is prettier. So this is an amazing image that can really help depict some of the different words that we use and what the deeper feeling may be. And so, Hadley, you described you were able to use the word anger. And so if you're listening to the recording of this, you're going to see something that looks almost like a bullseye. So there's, like, the outside layer, there's a deeper layer, and then there's the core kind of bullseye in the center. And then each of those are broken into, like, lots of different emotions and parts. And so in the core, which is often the core emotion or the core experience is anger, disgust, sadness, happy, surprised, bad, and fearful. And so anger. So what are some other words that. That we're seeing here that could represent anger? I see frustrated.

Yeah. I think frustrated is a really big one that people will use instead of anger. I know that that used to be. For me, that's what I would use because anger wasn't allowed. I've done a lot of work on anger, but I think also I really, really like where it says betrayed and let down. Because that one doesn't feel like that one's like, oh, that's the core emotion of that is anger.

Like, yeah.

Oh.

And what's really interesting to me, too, is before we started recording that episode and you were presenting to me with, like, I'm feeling kind of, like, frustrated, and I feel let down. And that sometimes you'll just, like, not totally dial in on your emotions. You may just, like, focus on the bright side or dissociate a little bit. And feeling distant or numb is also. And these are emotions that can point to anger.

Yes. And that's something that we talked about in the Polyvagal Theory episode, which. The numbness and the. With feeling withdrawn, feeling distant, those types of things usually indicate that there's anger that's being numbed. And so in the. In, like, Polyvagal Theory, there are these there's basically, like, different levels, and I'm not going to go into all of it. You can go listen to the podcast episode about that. But essentially we have, like, fight and flight and freeze and fawn and flop, all of those things when we get into the sympathetic nervous system state. But then if we kind of go over, like, tip over the edge of that, even when we get so, so, so stressed or angry or, you know, fight, all of these things, when we. When we overdo it, like, or when we experience an, like, so much that we can't handle it, then we experience that collapse or freeze, that, like, dissociation level. And so often when we're kind of coming out of that freeze state, because I've experienced that many times, when we come out of that freeze state, sometimes we have to go back into a fight or we have to go into anger. And that actually is a more empowered state. So we wanted to touch on that a little bit today, too.

Yeah, and I love that you touched on that because the anger is a more empowered state. And when we were doing the. With the meeting place is that you had this emotion, this part that was showing up. And then anger's like, I'm here to protect that part. And so it was actually like, a pretty badass part of you. And then the other emotions, the other parts didn't understand what anger was for. And they're like, a little bit. I felt like there's a little bit of an internal battle about, well, who is anger and what are they doing here? Do we want anger?

Totally. It was funny, like, while I was. While I was in my meeting place and going through that, and I didn't want to, like, touch on this too much during, because I wanted everyone to have their own experience of it if they were, like, doing it kind of with me about, like, what they look like and everything. But mine were all, like, cartoon woodland creatures. I mentioned that my anger was a fox, but, like, all of them were different. Like, there was a bear and there was a badger and a raccoon and a rabbit and a mouse, and they were. It was basically like, you know, the fox was this sneaky, like, no one really wanted the fox around kind of situation. And we've seen this in some, like, Pixar movies and stuff where, like, the fox is, like, the worst.

Right.

So, yeah, so it was really. It was interesting to see that, like, there is a lot of resentment toward anger. But then once, once it showed, like, actually, I'm here to protect. It was like, insecurity and unworthiness which is more of that, like, shame, which is like the collapse state. When we get. When we are in, or when we have a lot of shame, we'll go more into that collapse state. And so it was really just protecting that heart, which. Yeah, it was. It was really interesting. And. And I didn't think of any of this consciously during, but now after the fact, I'm like, oh, it makes sense. It maps onto everything that I've learned with polyvagal theory, with. Dr. Kane and I were just talking about this before, but there's something called the Map of Consciousness by David Hawkins. And that is really interesting because, like, on the very bottom of the scale is shame, and then there's, like, guilt and apathy, and then anger is actually a more empowered state on there, too. So we see this in a lot of different models. Yes. If you're watching the video, Dr. Kane is sharing, sharing the screen and showing that there's. That anger is. Comes kind of above these other things and can, you know, come in to allow ourselves to feel more empowered than we would feel if we were just, like, wallowing in the shame.

I'm thinking about the metaphorical representations that. That we can use when doing parts work, too. Is. Is. Is imaginative. It can be. You know, sometimes I have worked with clinicians because I. I own a couple counseling practices, and I've worked with a lot of clinicians over the years. And. And how sometimes we look at things really literally. Other times we look at things through a very spiritual lens. Other times it's through a very metaphorical lens. And I'm interested in what you actually just revealed about how your parts showed up as these, like, Pixar characters. And, like, part of me is like, of course Hadley's parts are all Pixar characters. That is so you.

That's hilarious. Sometimes my family will say to me, like, how are you literally a cartoon character?

Yeah. You're like a Disney princess.

Yeah, that's.

But I wonder about that. Is that in itself a part where our parts can show up in a lot of different ways? Right. So we have parts that can show up in thoughts and behaviors and can kind of. We can personify them. And then we have parts that feel a little bit less tangible, like, like the absence of something. And like, everybody else is like, she's not here, or they're not here, but I don't know who they are. I just notice the absence of them. And then we have your parts that aren't showing up as you. But it's like a step Removed.

Yeah.

And they're showing up as these mythical creatures or these cartoon creatures or representations. And so it'd be interesting like if I was your therapist would want to dive deep into like, tell me about you taking form as a fox. What does that mean to you? What is the fox represent to you? And is that coming from you or is it somebody else? It's like, oh no, I put a force field of a fox on her. Right. So like is there's so much that we can explore by looking at things from different lenses and different angles. And that's why I love this holistic and integrative method. Like how as you were doing this reflection is you're like, oh, I can see how this goes in polyvagal theory. Oh my gosh, we need to talk about the principles of consciousness. And I'm like, you've talked about David Hawkins. This is so long ago. And then you're like, oh, and Ayurveda, of course it's anger, because I have pitta. And so as we're doing this like deep discovery is that's why it's so cool to look at other philosophies and other paradigms is to learn just a little bit more about who we are in this really complex universe.

Totally. Yes. And I think it's interesting. So with parts work, so is it supposed to be that they are outside of you and then you like integrate them into you? Or is it. Are you. Is it supposed to be like they are like limbs of you?

That's interesting. It depends a little bit on the philosophy of who's doing the parts work. And so we have internal family systems. That's Schwartz and he's a lot of what people know as parts. And that's the movie Inside out is a really great portrayal of that. He was a consultant in that movie. And what I think is helpful about his work is that he will help us designate roles that parts take. So like you're the firefighter, you help put out fires, metaphorically speaking. And then this one is the antagonist and this one is the exile. And so he has looked at patterns throughout his career. And then he's able to sort of look at what's showing up in ourselves and be like, well, that kind of fits into that pattern. So that's maybe it's another exile. And then we look at the work of the Watkinses and they're just pure ego state work. And theirs is a little bit more, I think, like Ericksonian in that it's open ended. So Erickson, he's the found. He's the founder of Ericksonian hypnosis. Which is instead of like when I did the. The meeting place with you, I didn't say, you're walking down a wooded path. I was like, you're walking down a path. Notice what the ground feels like. So you got to fill in the blanks. And I didn't describe your meeting place. I allowed you to tell me your meeting place. So it's a little bit more open ended. And so some, some philosophies of ego stater parts work are more open ended. And then we have the philosophy of emgr, which takes a whole different spin on it. But what I, what I personally resonate more with is allowing that individual's ego states or parts to tell you how they're showing up. We know that we are all made up of different parts. Like, some part of me wants to eat a salad tonight, part of me wants a big veggie taco. Right? Like, we are all made up of complex parts. And so the question is, is, are they integrated or are they disintegrated? The goal ultimately is we disintegrate them first. We pull them all out. We're like, who are you? What are you doing and where did you come from? And what are your unmet needs? And then we integrate them together. So, like, with your parts work, they didn't, they weren't all integrated. Some of them didn't know the other ones were there, and some of them felt like they were on different teams and they're like a little bit annoyed. And so the process of continuing to do parts work with your parts as an example would to be like, okay, how can we work as a team and have the same goal where then you're not being pulled in different directions and being emotionally or physically hijacked by these independently, seemingly independently functioning patterns or programs, but rather that you have the agency and the control and the personal power to change, choose how you want to respond and how you want to live your life.

I love it. Yeah, I, I was curious because I have noticed this in myself, that when I do, I mean, you guys, I do like so much like visualization work and meditation and hypnosis and like, all of the things just because, like, Todd always makes fun of me. He's like, when people ask me what your hobbies are, I can't just say personal development. I'm like, that's kind of what I like to do, though. But. So I've done a lot of this work, but I have noticed that A lot of times when I do, like, a visualization process, I will see myself not like, through my eyes as like another person, like, as like a scene on a movie screen, rather than me being embodied in it. And so you were kind of bringing that up with the. The animals. Like, I'm not necessarily embodied in it. I've been working toward in different visualizations. How can I, like, actually step into that? And then I'll step out and back in kind of throughout it to kind of get my nervous system, like, cool with it, and it just kind of happens naturally. But I thought I noticed that in the. A few months ago and was like, huh, that's interesting that I often am thinking of myself as like a separate entity, like my future self, or like, you know, whatever it is.

I think that's wise in that you have the flexibility to do that, you know, because if. If my. So our brain has what's called a homunculus orientation, right? So it's like the little man in the brain. And so for those who are like homunculus is that if, if there. Your cortex, your brain, the white matter of your brain, has areas designated for different parts of your body. So theoretically, if we took an electrode and zapped the part of the cortex associated with your nose, you'll feel it in your nose. And so you're. If it would be disadvantageous for your whole homunculus to be one blob for your whole body, it's advantageous for it to have separately demarcated areas. But what's beautiful about the brain is that it's plastic, and so it can change and it can adapt. And what I hear you describing is you're working on attaining that plasticity. So I can go in and integrate and work together, and then I can come out and allow myself to have a separate identity. And so that you're kind of. It's sort of like sometimes the waves and the water come up as little drops, and then they return to the whole. The whole body of water. So the, the way that you're doing that, I think is really wise, is like, kind of thinking about, like, going in, coming out, going in, coming out. And I don't think the ultimate goal is to be one or the other, but to have that kind of fluid flow where it's like, right now I need to be angry, and I know we have anger. And right now she's been like, over here chilling with, like, happy and bubbly. But, like, right now I really need her to step up because this is an anger situation. And it's valid. And then we don't need bubbly right now. She can, like, go over here and she'll be called when we need her. And then at other times, we want to have them all, like a unified front. And. And so I think that's a really honoring, nuanced way to look at how the human psyche can be reprogrammed for our sense of personal agency.

I love it. Well, I'm glad to hear that I'm on the right track. I will say, I think. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

I will say that it's not. It hasn't been that, like, super easy to go in and out of it. I definitely. It feels more effortful to go in, like, to embody that, like, person that I'm trying to visualize.

But.

And then. And then I'll notice, like, oh, yeah, now I'm outside of it. And then I'll, like, go back in and I'll notice that I'm outside of it. But, yeah, it is. It is an interesting practice to be able to do both.

Yeah. Yeah. And we talk about in some of our other podcasts, too. So if you're loving this conversation is. You definitely should check out the previous episode where we did the meeting place. And then we've talked about polyvagal theory, and then we. We would be remiss to not mention ayurveda and how 2000 years of wisdom has already told us what we're finding other ways to explore. Explain now and pitta. And so before we finish up today, can you explain to us a little bit about what pitta is for those who may be a little new to the podcast? Totally.

And we touched on this a little bit in the episode on anger anxiety. So definitely, if you're really, like, interest. If you're like, oh, man, I definitely have more anger than I realized, then you can go. You can go listen to that. That one as well. But pitta in Ayurveda is basically, it's like the fiery dosha. So there in Ayurveda, there are. There are three different doshas. We have many, many episodes on all of the different doshas. So I won't talk a ton about the other ones, but it's basically, it's vata, pitta and kapha. Vata is made up of. They're all made up of elements. So if you think about, like, if you ever watched Avatar, the Last Airbender, or, you know, if you've. If you have done any work with, like, Eastern philosophies and stuff, you might have heard of, like, the different elements, right? We've got, we've got air, we've got space, which is different from air in Ayurveda. Sometimes they're conflated and then we've got fire, water and earth. So vata is made up of air and ether or space. Pitta is made up of fire and a little bit of water. And then kapha is made up of water and earth. So pitta is the element of Liz, mostly the element of fire. There's a little bit of water in there that kind of brings in some nuance. But for the purposes of this podcast, pitta is very fiery. And that's amazing. There are so many things that are amazing about fire. Very quick witted, sharp, can be like, intellectual, get stuff done. And then there's, there's also a lot more anger prominent because that's just the way the, the constitution is. And so, you know, for me, I kind of have to like, befriend my anger and be like, that's okay, it's part of me. I don't have to like, blast it onto other people. And it's like, okay, I can befriend it and then can also work to balance my dosha. And how we do that is there are, I mean, we can literally balance our dosha with food, with exercise, with lifestyle things, with lots of the different habits that I do with my clients. But anger is a big part of, of having a lot of pizza in your constitution. Now, an example of this that I love to give, because this was always an example of correlation does not equal causation. In, like my psychology classes in undergrad, it was like, the correlation was that as more people ate ice cream cones, there were also more murders. So it was like, so they were saying, like, you can't imply causation, you can't say that, that people eating more ice cream cones are going to make them murderous. Right? The actual causation was that it was summertime and when it's hot outside, people are more angry and more homicidal. So. And so the correlation and causation example aside, like, we actually see this, like, over, you know, when it's hotter outside, people are more violent. Really interesting. And so again, if you have an imbalance of pizza, if you're too hot, if you're eating foods that are too hot, if you're doing things that create a lot of heat in your body and your mind, that can cause, that can cause anger. So we can balance out the anger while also befriending it at the same time. Does that make sense?

Yes. I love that description. And what I was thinking about at the end of what you were saying is I wonder about our doshas and developmental level. And because we know that postmenopausal women are often more vata. And so, you know, as women get older, we often become more vata. And I'm wondering about the age that you were when anger showed up and if that pattern got stuck in the nervous system. And so that disposition to being pitta that you may have had at that age, just developmentally, if it continues to be stuck, if that may be predisposing you to get some pitta over balance, because I know it's all about having equal tridosic balance, but maybe you get a little bit more pitta because of this adversity that you developed a protective response to. Does that resonate?

Totally. So, yeah, I think that our predisposition with the doshas that we're born with can really affect. Like, for someone who doesn't have as much pizza in their constitution, like you, you have more vata in your constitution. Your tendency, as you shared in one of our podcasts about it, was like fight, flight, freeze on, flop. You were like, I fawn. That's my tendency. And so. And that's. You have a lot of vata in your constitution. And so that will be. That will predispose us to that being like our initial, like, initial reaction. So, you know, for me it might. It was more anger, and for you it was more flop, more of that vata. For other people, it might be more like, you know, running away. That's also vata. For other people it might be collapse, which is more of that kapha, like numbing. And actually that I have some of that too, where I will go from anger to. To flop.

Yeah, yeah.

Or fight to flop. Yeah, yeah. So. So because I have more kapha in my constitution, so it's like same stressors, but the way that we're. That we're wired, that we kind of come into the world is going to be different and we can work on it. We can, you know, we can do things to balance that. That out. As far as the life stages, like, I love talking about that too, because our life stages are when we're kids. It's the kapha stage of life. When. And then like adulthood until menopause for women, same age.

Ish.

For men. You know, there's. They're not like super hard delineations, but. But basically like from puberty until menopause, or manopause is pitta stage of life.

I've never heard that. That's funny.

Yeah, menopause, menstruation.

That's funny. That's good.

And then there's. And then VA stage of life is at the end. End of our life. And. And so we might. We might experience an imbalance more in those different stages of life. So, like, for, you know, as we. As we go into the vata stage of life, we might have more instances of experiencing that, like, anxiety and fear and that kind of thing, which is more aligned with vata when we experience adversity versus, you know, pitta when we're feeling like, when we're super fired up and like, rearing to go in that middle stage of life. So that'll impact things too, for sure.

So some actionables, as we come to the end of this conversation here is. So it's like, do you have more anger than you realize? And one thing about that is that anger is good. Anger is powerful. Anger is a catalyst. Anger is important. And so you talked about befriending your anger, and so some strategies for that is we did some work befriending anger, doing the parts work in the previous episode, the meeting place. And do you have another hack for befriending your anger?

Yes, I do. I believe that anger is an amazing. Well, all of our emotions are amazing communication tools for us to recognize what we actually need in our lives. And I really strongly believe, and there's, you know, some research on this too, that anger is a really great indication that we have not set up our boundaries or our expectations in a way that is either effective or those boundaries have been crossed or. And it doesn't have to be boundaries, but our expectations of how we want to be treated or, you know, we haven't. We haven't necessarily communicated what we are available for or that we have communicated that and that has been stepped over. And so then we need to address that. So that I think that's maybe the best way that I have found to befriend my anger is like, oh, my gosh, it's telling me this really awesome communication that there's something that I need to tweak. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it's. It's. Instead of labeling it as a problem to be solved.

Yes.

We're looking at it as a messenger of an opportunity for deeper healing.

Yeah.

And so that could be looking at, like you said, our lifestyle or relationships. It could be looking at adversity that we experienced in the past. That is stuck in our body. It could be looking at our habits and lifestyle and are they pushing us more into pitta? And it could also be looking at our hormones and our endocrine system. Like, ooh, I have a lot of spiciness going on. So what's going on with my hormones? So it is reframing what the anger is and allowing it. Yes, allowing it to transform us.

And sometimes I'll say, also, sometimes I just experience anger because I haven't had my daily poop yet. So, like, I've got toxins in my body that haven't been eliminated and that makes me, like, grumpy and angry. So, you know, it could be communicating a number of different things.

All of the things like I'm hangry, you know, all of. Yeah, I love that. So it's like we notice it, we acknowledge it, we honor it, and then we ask for more information and we do the deeper digging, which is what we're all about helping you do here at Holistic Inner Balance. So thank you for listening. Hopefully this was helpful for you. We are going to be coming out to hopefully your town. We're going to be doing a live podcast tour. And so check out our social media and our websites for dates and locations and to make requests of hosting us where you are. We're all about building community in person, and so we're really excited to meet you and to see you face to face. So definitely, please join us if you can. We would love to give you a great big hug and a hello.

Yes. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited for our live events. This has been a long time coming by popular demand, and I cannot wait to meet you all in person.

Person. It's going to be great, my friends. Oh, thank you so much for listening and we will see you next time on the Holistic Inner Balance.

Bye, everyone.

Bye.