ARE YOU DOING THE BORING STUFF THAT WILL MAKE YOU GREAT?

Hey, before we get into the interview, I want to make sure you're aware of our other podcasts, the Sales Questions, Brutally Honest Answers Show, which is a very quick, under 5 minutes in most cases, sometimes just a few minutes where I answer your questions. You can just send me any question to my LinkedIn profile, Brian G. Burns, and I'll put it in the queue to answer. Also, the Sales Leadership Show. If you're looking to get into sales leadership or you want to hear from the world's best sales leaders, that's where I interview them. Check it out, the Sales Leadership Show. Also at b2brevenue.com, you can learn all about all the courses. Links are in the show notes below, as well as our link to our partners over at brevitypitch.com, the fastest, easiest way to become great at sales and practice.

Before it's showtime. Here we go. So in sales, everything's pretty glamorous, right? Excitement every day. You know, the press is constantly calling us looking for updates. Is that your experience?

I think that's what the outside folks think sales is. They, they do think it's very glamorous and You're making all the money and you get all, all the time off, vacations and everything's easy. And then sometimes we probably convince ourselves that's why we're in sales. And there's certainly the moments of that, but it's easy to get distracted with all the glamour and different things going on, all the new technology, all the different things.

Right.

But it seems that a lot of the boring things, a lot of the monotonous daily tasks that really build up over time is what moves the needle typically in sales, what I've found at least.

Yeah, I think people would rather work on an exciting fake deal than do some of the, the stuff that really creates real deals. And I think that's why people love fake deals. They feel like real deals. They don't pay, they never order. They sure do take up time though. And the, the, some of the inbound prospecting. Let's— all those people who stopped by the booth, I'm sure they were interested in the product and not the free coffee cup. But what are some of the boring things that you've had to deal with that really do make the difference in sales?

The one you called out there was, I think, chasing the fake deals or the deals that you think are going to close that don't close. So There's a variety of reasons behind that, but I think what most salespeople don't do as well because they're so busy doing all the stuff you were talking about is they don't prepare and plan very well. So they, they don't sit down and try to prioritize their pipeline. They don't actually strategically think about a deal and all the things that could go wrong. And that— I'm pretty analytical in general, so I have more of that. architecture type mindset. So I enjoy that more than probably most people do. But just thinking strategically on, on the bigger opportunities, you can't do this for everybody, but for like those A opportunities that are really going to help you hit your number, get you over the finish line, and mapping it out from start to finish within reason. And you build templates for that. That probably one thing is What helps me stand out the most. And a lot of that I learned from your course and your methodology. But I don't— I think I'm an outlier for doing that because everybody— and it's, it's, you get sucked into the vortex, right? All the internal meetings, all the stuff you have to go to, the sales kickoff. Like, next thing you know, it's like you don't have sitting there to block off 2 hours to plan and prioritize your deals seems like a nuisance or that it isn't going to help you. But those 2 or 3 hours probably make a bigger difference than all the random 20 hours of internal BS stuff that you're doing that doesn't help you at all. So that, that probably stands out the most. There's definitely some other things for sure that we can talk about, but like that one's at the top of my list.

Yeah, because I look at those things and it's a lot like when you talk to somebody about treadmill and let's face it, there's sometimes where Running outside is not an option. It's raining, it's freezing, it's snowing. And I get on a treadmill and people, oh, it's so boring. And it's like, is boredom the real reason you're not doing it? After 30 minutes, you got an argument. It's boring. How about 15 minutes? You can put your iPad there, watch TV, listen to— do it, the identical things you're doing in the house. But not on a bed, on a treadmill. And I think the preparation, the planning, the thinking through the analysis of deals, I think people use words to protect themselves. Oh, they know what's going to happen. They've seen it all. Been doing this for 30 years, 100 years.

So?

Do you think Jerry Seinfeld, you know, there was a big article about him, you know, during the pandemic, he didn't get on stage for a year. And he didn't want to get on a stage afterwards because he wasn't ready. Well, he'd been doing it for 25 years. He knows the jokes. But the mojo isn't there. And he's smart enough to know that. Sales reps aren't smart enough to know that, right? Because that confidence that they built up over those years, I know what to do. It's like, well, you might, but what if you don't? What if something else comes up? And how do sales reps get in trouble? There's no preparation. They go into the call, somebody asks for some stupid security standard that they really don't need. And every— what does the rep do? Go play fetch. Go down to engineering. We got to get, uh, this thing going. Otherwise we're not going to get this deal. And you're like, well, what does that have to do with our product?

I don't know.

Maybe you should have asked during the call with the person to find out if it's a real issue or if it's just some bullshit fetch issue. And how do you be proactive if you don't know where you're going in a deal? Well, I'll ask them where— what they want to do. No, that's them knowing where they want to go, not you.

That comedy one's a great example, especially somebody as famous as Seinfeld, who's worth, I think, over a billion dollars at this point, and he's still preparing the right way, even though he probably could— he could easily go wing it, and everyone loves him, and he'd probably be okay, but he's still like, no, I have to be on my A-game. I have to get back in that flow state and I haven't done anything for months or a year. So that's, that's an easy one to think about it from a sales standpoint. And I look at it as like those, those meetings in front of the customers, those bigger deals. I mean, that's, they drive the needle, right? So that's these small moments in your week or your month. And if you don't, and if you don't over-prepare for those, there's a limit of Preparing too much, which I've done the opposite. But why not put the effort into those? Because that could be your 500K deal or whatever quota you're trying to hit. But you get so busy with this other stuff, you think you next thing you know, you're just you're also like worn out. Maybe doing all these other things, you're not like fresh and prepared for those situations. So I've gotten way better about that. Those key moments, trying to be on my A game for. the top customers. And then if it's not as big of a deal, or if I don't think it's at the top of the pipeline, I might not put as much effort into it. But I still have a template that I look at and I still have a process. So I think that's been really helpful. And then, you know, other boring things, which is related to work, but also out of that is just I do a morning routine Monday through Friday. I don't do it on the weekends because I try to give myself a break, but just, it's about 30 minutes now. And it has a variety of things personally, professionally that just gets me started for the day. And if I don't do that, I feel off. And it's not— I don't always wake up and I'm excited to do it, but it's just more of a habit at this point. And I feel like if I don't do it, it doesn't set the tone for my day. Right. So that's another, I would say, boring thing. It's a very cliché thing too, but it's doing some challenging things on purpose first thing in the morning. And sales especially, it's, you just get beat up most of the week, all day. So if you're not intentionally doing some things hard and prepping, I feel like it can eat you up a little bit. So just instead of in the past going straight to email or straight to look at my phone, straight to this and that, and then you just immediately brings another level of stress. You don't need any more stress in sales, so why not do some other stuff? But, but It's counterintuitive, right? Because you feel like you just need to be busy. You need to do activity. You need to check your emails, whatever the case, but just not looking at your phone, not being distracted, just focusing on yourself and getting better. That, that has really helped me, but it took me a while to get that groove. I mean, I've been doing this, doing that for almost 4 years now, and I keep getting better at it and keep making it my own. But I definitely highly recommend that too, because I think a lot of salespeople go straight into the chaos.

Yeah. And just to close out the point on the preparation, the analysis, the planning— the reason people don't do it, and I really only accepted this this year, is, is not the work, it's not the boredom, it's the thinking. Because, you know, when I did training on site, I'd always map out the process. The first And it was pulling teeth because they didn't know, and they had to think, and they couldn't come up with an example. And they they give vague things like a bunch of things. What happens next? A bunch of things. Name one. Well, buh buh buh. Name it. What do they do? They don't buy. That's what they do. And they don't want to face it, so they don't. It's better off by saying, I've been doing this for 5 years. I was the top guy in Rhode Island in 1998 for Q2, so I must know what I'm doing. Well, that's selling yourself instead of selling the customer. And we got to sell ourselves, but on the right things. And the other thing you mentioned was, you know, habits and consistency are boring to death. That's why people don't do them. It gets boring, right? By Friday, you're kind of like, ah, morning routine.

I've done that.

I did it 4 days in a row. Really? Do I need to do it another day? I know what to do. You fall into the knowledge trap.

I know.

Well, it's not a knowledge profession. Knowing it does you very little good. It's how well you do it. Does Jerry Seinfeld not know the jokes? Have you ever noticed these people, all these people? He knows the joke. There you go. I know the jokes. I can't deliver them. No one's going to laugh at me giving the jokes. People get stuck protecting themselves. And this is why managers move to activity. It's the thing that they can see, they can touch, they can count. And it has something to do with getting results, not solely the thing that gets results. So if the boring stuff, certainly with habits and consistency, well, consider the alternative. You know, the variations might be a little bit more dopamine intense, a little bit more exciting. It's a field trip, but is it progressing you? That was— we're not here to be happy, right? You want to be happy, move into marketing. They're all happy. Have you ever seen a mad marketing person? They're happy. They have 7 font selection meetings a month, and they have to plan for them. Helvetica. Well, what size, Brian? We got the font type. How many points? We'll meet on Thursday to discuss that. If happiness is what you want, move into marketing. Sales is kind of a You're here for a reason. You found marketing too stressful? No.

Come to think of it, I don't think I remember a lot of marketing people being stressed out. That, that's for sure. Maybe, maybe on, maybe on the product side, but, uh, every once in a while. But anyways, yeah, I, I agree. And just trying to think some other boring things that move the needle. I mean, well, you can debate on how effective your prospecting is, but also something that I do typically first thing in the morning Monday through Thursday is about an hour of prospecting on— I use LinkedIn. That's what is most effective for me. And use a different process probably from what, uh, most people are doing that I, that I learned from you that's making it more about them and building up interest essentially. And I I started doing that a few years ago as well. And at first, I did a little bit too much. So I overcommitted myself and then realized I needed to take, take a step back and keep building it up. But now I do roughly about an hour first thing in the morning, just because it's— it has gotten more fun, actually, even though it's boring, quote unquote. But it's still not something that I am like excited about, like, you know, thrilled to do every day. But it's a habit, again, going back to the habits. So That hour of LinkedIn prospecting probably generates a couple meetings a week with new net new people that were cold outbound, which is not easy to do, as you know. So I think, and I, and I see that as like a huge revenue generate generating activity that is boring, but it gets results versus I'm not a good cold caller. I'm not bought into the email stuff. I know you probably aren't as well, but Versus spending hours doing some of that stuff or whatever your company's telling you to do. That's really effective for me. It doesn't necessarily mean it would work for everybody, but whatever that hour could be, you know, is it going to an event? Is it— maybe you are good at cold calling and you can rock out 10 or 15 calls and it's reasonable an hour. But that, something like that also really helps me in sales, but it's boring and it's not typically as fun.

Well, yeah. And what's less fun is getting rejected, right? Yeah, for sure. And that's why people don't like to cold call is it's a lot of rejection. And what's, what people find boring about my approach is it's not 100% about them. It's 100% about the other person. And then people—

I think it's fun now. I think it's fun now. Like, I, I enjoy it, but you know, that's, it took a little bit of time to get into that, but I, I'm all about LinkedIn. I love it. It's— I'd much rather do it that way than have to cold call. I mean, that's, it's miserable. That's miserable. Nor do I want to do the spam emails, even though I don't have to do work, but that's not really my style anyway. I'd rather be building up a conversation like how you teach it.

Yeah. And people love stimulus response. They want to— they love the no. And it's like, well, the world's already at no. You didn't have to do— you didn't have to go up, do your morning routine, sit at your desk to get no. You could have stayed in bed and be at no. Our job is to build to a yes. This is what people don't get. Prospecting is not finding interest, it's creating it. And people are not open-minded to strangers because you talk about you and your product. That's about you and your product, not about them. And I think in sales today, people want stimulus response. They don't want something that's vague, that you're building awareness about yourself, that you're moving through a process with people. Well, are they interested or not? Why would they be interested? We're contacting them. They're not contacting us. You know, ask yourself right now, are you interested in buying an RV?

Dustin, can't say I am. Can't—

well, let me tell you about the benefits of an RV. All those rent payments you're making, no more. Just drive to, uh, Cracker Barrel, park, and you're all set. You're a digital nomad. Are you interested?

It's, it's been trending, I think, with millennials doing the whole, uh, live in a van, live in an RV thing. So maybe, maybe, maybe I should take it up.

And this— if you want stimulus response, and everybody wants it because they're like, it didn't work, well, you've got to work it. And connecting with strangers, and that's what we do. We'd like it to be, okay, exactly 1 out of 50 will be a yes. That's kind of the, the mental genius that's out there in sales prospecting, thinking that A no gets you closer to a yes. Has nothing to do with one or the other. It might take you a little bit of time to think through that, but it doesn't. So why not do what works instead of doing more of what doesn't work?

It's the definition of insanity, right? It just keeps—

it's even promoted for sales for doing it. It's like Yeah. Yeah. So guess what happens? You get the Peter Principle of insanity running it.

Yeah, it's wild. It's, well, I, and I've seen results. I mean, going back to your, to your process, it, you have to be a little more patient and not, not patient for that long. It's just you're, you're building up a conversation. So it may take 7 to 10 days to turn it into a meeting, but that's way better than just getting nos and completely alienating those people from your network because you're just pitching them whatever it may be. So it makes a ton of sense for me. And then I see like, you know, booking meetings with your ideal customer profile, getting in front of those customers and moving the deal along. That's like my top priority, right? That's my top focus. The rest of the stuff doesn't really matter if I'm not doing that part. So if anything that can drive those 2 areas is at the top of my list and where I try to block out Majority of my time. And then I think you go back a little bit back to planning, not, not necessarily for deals, but just planning your, planning your week, planning your day. That, that's something very simple. It's not necessarily fun. It's pretty boring, but that goes a long way compared to anything else because salespeople get so distracted. There's so much noise. There's so much shiny objects that you can use and all this technology and AI, which is overwhelming. But just me simply The way I do it is just my top 3 things I want to get done for the week, and then my top 1 or 2 things I want to get done for the day. And those are ranked based off what we just talked about, like usually revenue generating or something personal that is going to help me with whatever. And I still map out my day, like what I need to be doing each hour or so. But in general, if I don't get that 1 or 2 things done, then Like it's not necessarily a successful day, right? So that's something very easy, boring, going back to the planning that can help people. And I do that for personal stuff too, not just work. And that's very easy. So at the end of the day, I like to do it the night before or the evening before. That way when I wake up, it's just, I don't have to think as much. I do want to think, but I, I know what the priority is. I don't have to go through that part again. And it's just like, boom. And you're going to get some fire drills. You're going to get some stuff that comes up. But if you have that, that's very helpful for me too.

Yeah. Because quality is boring. Quantity is exciting. If you've got 8 meetings, that sounds better than having 2 meetings, doesn't it?

It does. Actually, not to me anymore because it wears me out. But to most people, yes, for sure.

It feels better. But because our little brains can't go, are they equal? No, of course they're not equal. So how do you pick the 2 that are going to matter? You know, and this is the first thing, if you're like prospecting, what is going to be the most effective? Well, that requires thinking. It's easier sometimes just to hit the button. 50 times. No thinking. But guess who makes more money, the thinker or the census taker? I've never met—

Thinker, for sure.

You know, census takers, I don't see them on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. I haven't seen one yet. Maybe I'm watching the wrong channel. So if sales— you make more money thinking, even if it's boring, it might be worth considering. Because we, we all have a year here. It's a unit of time, and we get tricked into thinking that it's a lot longer, but we can only do so much. And certainly in the prospecting, or even in your deals, you look— first thing I tell people is put it in rank order. They go, based off of what? Maybe close date or importance. And they always take this big deal that's never going to happen and they put it at the top. They go, well, where are you with that deal? Well, they, they stopped by the booth and they really need our product. Who thinks that other than you? Well, they should really need it. And it's like, is that really more important than this other one where you're competing and they're gonna make a decision this month, but it's hard? And people, oh, everybody knows that. Why aren't you doing it? Well, I do it in my head, which means I'm not doing it. That's where I put all the stuff that I don't do is in my head. But if we made these habits, they may be boring, but boy, they, they do improve. Like your morning routine, right? You've kind of got used to it. It's almost harder not to do it now than it is to do it. And you can kind of like stack something onto it if you— it would be easier because you're up, you're moving, add a little 1-minute thing to it.

Oh yeah, yeah, you build up that momentum. And then people with, with the habits and the boring stuff, you know, you, you, you check off the list. So I keep track of it. It's like that, that feeling that I did all 5 days, or even if I did 4 out of 5 days, that's still 80%. So, you know, you feel good if, if you do that, and then it just keeps building that momentum. And then I, you know, add even simple things like I got the, the Oura Ring You know, that's something that doesn't necessarily— it takes a little bit of time, uh, maybe at first, but it's just something that just gives you even more data about your sleep and about how you're ready for the day, uh, for better or for worse. So yeah, exactly. It just keeps building up cumulative. So, you know, you think 5 years from now, if you start doing some of this stuff, how much further along you're going to be compared to if you don't do it. And, and especially with sales stuff or personal, I mean it, but It's a patience. It's a long game. You're not going to get the results in a couple months typically. So that, that's the hard part. But it— yeah, I, I definitely gravitated to that. I'm sure I'll look back at my previous self and be like, man, I'm glad I started doing that morning routine. I'm glad I started prioritizing the deals. Because at some point you're gonna have to figure some of this stuff out. So the longer you wait, the harder it's going to be. But is there anything else you do? What, what, what's something boring you do that helps you out?

Yeah, like I have, uh, 3 alarms during the day that, that go off and it keeps me on track. So I don't check my email or any social stuff except for those 3 times.

That's a good idea.

And, and then it's also a reminder, am I on track for my daily goal? You know, so one's very early, one's right before lunch, and one's right before I end the day. You know, it's like, well, you can't remember that? It's like, well, you'd be surprised. And it's like, you played football, you know, you'd had the 2-a-days, right? Right before the season started. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever done 2-a-days without the coach and the team and the schedule? I'm listening. Sorry.

I don't think so. No.

Not once? No, that accountability is boring, isn't it? But it works. It's—

yeah.

And I think we see that in sales too. Unless somebody is kind of— this is the good part of having a manager, is kind of like, you know, build up that routine. Not just activity, but, you know, a routine. Okay, you do prospecting here. Here you spend some time on this. We review this. Would that take place without that person? Should it take place? Some of it, but it's boring.

And to become great at sales, the best way is to model somebody who already Has become good at sales and to hear other people who have become great at sales and the journey that they're going through, the false beliefs, uh, the, the misnomers, the mindset issues, all of the stuff that gets in our way between where we are and the income that we want. Let's face it, we're in sales because we're money motivated, we're competitive, we want to be better. Every day than we were yesterday. And how do we do that? Um, just really, you know, read a book, uh, listen to a podcast. That's good, good start. I like it. But then you have to take action. And then you want both tactical and strategic ideas. You want mindset, you want strategy, you want to understand how companies buy, you want Really deep content and examples, case studies, so that you can learn from other people's mistakes.

That's what I'm here for. I'm here for you to learn from my mistakes.

And boy, do I got a lot of them. So go to b2brevenue.com, sign up for the courses. There's 2 major ones. Start the Conversation, Get the Meeting fills up your pipeline, gets rid of that problem of, oh, I don't have enough leads. I don't have enough meetings. It gets those conversations started with the people you want to talk to. Now, it's not about a pitch. It's about a conversation. Now, everybody thinks of conversations when you're talking or you're online at the same time, or you're on the phone or Zoom at the same time. That's not a conversation. A conversation's when the client is talking about what they care about, what they're interested in. And that is what We call qualification, where we can sense where are they and how do we build up that curiosity into interest, into urgency to get a deal. And these are skills that we need. They're lifelong skills that we need in sales. And then how do we get a deal closed? Yes, anyone can take an order, but what if they don't know how to get it done? You got a new account. Where you're trying to get a big change done internally. What are the issues? If you're not planning that through, odds are it's not going to get done no matter how much your champion wants it. So winning the complex sale solves that problem for you. Why waste all your time on these false positives or these no decisions? Because they don't pay very well. They pay 0.0. What you want to do is pay a lot. So sign up today. Invest in yourself. You're the asset in sales. Quit waiting for somebody else to approve it or train you. See if you can get it expensed. That should be your first sales obstacle. Your first sales challenge is how do you get your company to pay for it? Just go down, tell your manager you want to do this. I put a little example email in the show notes right below here. Just swipe up and take a look at that. And if they won't, you got to ask yourself, why won't you? Why won't you? Oh, it takes time. Well, you work all day. You're working wrong all day. Why not improve that? There's the time right there. Oh, the money. Brian, it's money. Well, you make more money if you become better in sales. And Start the Conversation pays for itself the first week because you're gonna get at least 2 meetings just learning from the very basics of it. Closing the Complex Sale will pay for itself 100 times over. Students in it tell me it's the best money they ever spent because they now have control over their deals. And it doesn't end. Some give up. Some give up after they win their first deal and they think they've got enough. No, come back, come back, keep going. You can get even bigger deals, more deals, faster deals. That's what it's all about. Sign up today. Put the excuses away. Yeah, excuses feel good, but they're expensive. Excuse— you know what the excuses are costing you? Tens, 50, maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars a year in lost income.

Really? Yeah.

The difference between where you are today— let's say you're making $150,000, decent, decent income, but you know there's other people in your industry making $300,000, $400,000, $500,000. Well, how are you going to do that? You all think it's just about getting a better job, a better territory, a better manager. They can help.

Go do that.

Then what happens? It's still you there with those leads trying to close those deals. And do you have the game?

Few people do. Everyone thinks they do.

Why not prove it? The market tells you what you're worth.

Accept it.

Now become better. And the way to become better is to improve every day. Really make a daily routine of learning and developing because it's not at the knowledge level. You have to become unconsciously competent at these skills, which takes time, repetition, and emotion. And I show you how to do it, how I did it. How I've taught hundreds of people to do it, but you have to want to because I can't force you.

A lot of people wish I could.

So do I, but I can't.

So sign up today. We'll see you next time.