HOW THIS REP BUILT AN UNSTOPPABLE MINDSET FOR B2B SALES

As a sales rep, what superpower would you like to have? Predicting the future? Yeah, that's good. Reading people's minds? That would be helpful. Uh, let's talk about that for a second. Uh, can people read other people's minds? Well, of course not. But what we can do is empathize with the other person, put ourselves in their place, and Speculate what they may be thinking if that was you in that space, in that particular place. And if you could do that, then you would know what to do, know what they want, know how they're feeling, be able to solve some of their problems. Isn't that selling? Isn't that a great sales skill? Too many of us would want To not need to sleep, be able to work more. Well, I think in sales what we have to work really hard at is becoming good at sales. Understanding what we need to do to change, need to say, need to ask to get the other person, our client, to share with us what we can do for them. So, in today's interview, this is kind of a consistent theme that we have seen in great salespeople is that they come from something that requires the interaction with other people, to take constant feedback, to put yourself in the other person's shoes. And hospitality has been one of those training grounds. training grounds for sales. And it's one of these great paradoxes in careers in that hospitality in general doesn't pay that well. There's tips and stuff that would give certain roles in hospitality good income. But it doesn't have, in most cases, a lot of the benefits and career path and work hours that most of us would like to have in business-to-business sales. But what it teaches us is to be able to put ourselves in the client's shoes. What are they thinking? Are they going to tell me the truth or are they going to couch it a little or are they going to get mad and yell at me? And I have to find out what the problem is behind the problem and solve it for them even though it I didn't cause it. So hospitality has been a great training ground for salespeople because of that. If you're a manager, I would look to hire in that space. If I'm a rep or I'm in hospitality, or you know somebody in hospitality who's successful at it, getting into business-to-business sales would be a great thing. But we're going to be talking about that mindset. That ability to put yourself in the other person's shoes. Empathy, you can call it maybe a different word. But to be empathetic, you have to have certain things that happen before that. You have to be proactive because being reactive, is that really empathy or responding to somebody's request? To be proactive and take responsibility and then you You need curiosity because you have to wonder what exactly is going on, what could possibly solve this situation. You ever been in a bar or you go to a restaurant that you've been to several times and they kind of anticipate your desires? They check with you, but ready for another cocktail? Would you like some more water? Want to check out the dessert menu? Those type of things that are for the client, but also a little for us there too. Now, if you, if you can build this, the proactiveness, the curiosity, and then you can start to develop empathy. And if you have it, you can anticipate what's going on within your accounts. This is why it's so easy for people who aren't emotionally attached to the deal to kind of see what the issues are with it. Let's get into this interview. I think you're going to like this. This is a great guy, and at the end, I'll give you kind of what I got out of this.

Hey, Alain, thank you for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Alain Luxenberg, I am 34 years old. I have 2 children, one of 10 and one of 7. So a lot of fun with COVID and homeschooling extra. Married 10 years almost. So the big one coming up, and I am working for Barracuda Networks as a regional director for the Benelux region. So that stands for Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg.

And why sales for you?

So I started my career very early in hospitality, and that's because of my family, and I've always learned how to deal with people in different situations. So I had these part-time jobs here and there helping doing dishes, and then I remember it very vividly. One day I was in a conversation with a customer and he said, I bet you can sell sand in the Sahara, right? So I was like, okay, that triggered me, and he's like, I would love to hire you to work work for me to sell cars. And I was like, I'm not very interested in selling cars. But it always dawned on me. And a couple of years later, I was headhunted for an IT company. And I kind of doubted, but I was like, sure, why not give it a try? And ever since fell in love with it.

And was it a big leap or challenge? Because you go from hospitality to Networking or computer network.

Exactly. So I always believe in hard work. And if I learned one thing in healthcare and hospitality is you work extremely hard. I was responsible for actually a restaurant in London. And I was also responsible for the budget. So sometimes I would put myself 6 days a week on the rota just to make sure I Got the budget, and then somebody called me and said, "Listen, I have this great job," and it was telemarketing. And he offered me actually more than I was getting there working six days, and I was like, "Whoa, this can't be true!" And then all the other things—he was a good seller. I still am in contact with him, but I took a leap of faith. It was quite different for me as well because it was like we were fifty people in a room and we had to present to this company. So yeah, and they chose me. And it was very hard being in telemarketing sales, to be honest with you. But I had a hunger because I had my first child. So I decided to hit the phones very hard and made a lot of mistakes and a lot of angry people on the phone. But yeah, built my way up slowly.

And how did you do that? Because you've had a lot of success for a young guy, especially that you didn't start in technology, you started in hospitality.

I think that has to do with determination and fail fast, learn fast, and, you know, look back and learn. But, um, I, I still think, you know, luck has a massive part in it. But I also believe that if you really work hard and you want to learn and don't become too arrogant, doors will open for you. So I think that really helped myself. I really, you know, I'm a humble guy, and, and sometimes it doesn't look like it, but I'm, I'm very honest too, and I'm very loyal So that really helps.

Yeah, because I mean, hospitality seems to be one of the origin professions that people in sales have before they get into sales. And, and so I think the best career advice I could ever give somebody is get into business-to-business. You get the base salary and the benefits just blow away like hospitality and retail and a lot of other roles.

Absolutely. Yeah, that's, that's so true. And, you know, my mother always said, you know, try to start with a study in hospitality. Because when you're in hospitality, you learn managerial skills. Because, you know, I was very young, and I was managing people from 50 in London, for example, who were already grandfathers, and they were on a basic pay. Well, try to keep them happy, right? That was very difficult, and especially at a young age, and you had to tell people to clean tables, which they wouldn't spot, and you would see it. But yeah, no, I think you're very right. I also think in the military, we hear a lot of examples that, that really helps. But that comes back to, you know, you need to be very rigid in your work ethic. When I started at the IT company, after 2 months, I got a key already to open the office because I wanted to be an hour ahead because I, I was working in London and in the Netherlands they are 1 hour ahead. So I needed to come in early to hit the phones early because if it was 9 o'clock, all the important people had busy meetings. So I had to be there earlier than that.

And were you ever overwhelmed by the amount of technology? Because I went from selling software to selling network gear. And it's a whole nother world.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, that's one of the important things also in sales is, you know, make kind of like a small joke when you enter sales that you're not the brains in the room and that you try to help the people, but the special people are your engineers who actually can talk the right language. But for me, I used to call people and say, I calling from this product and I have this amazing product. Would you like to have a demo or stuff like that? And people would always say no. And I was thinking, why are they saying no? And then I started to talk about the trends in the market. Hey, at the time was BYOD. We have a lot of customers that have issues with BYOD. How are you doing? And then they start opening up like, oh yeah, BYOD is a big headache. And how do I get my devices connected to Wi-Fi? And we were in Wi-Fi. And then just let them talk. It's actually the 80/20 rule that really saved me there. And was that an adjustment?

Because going from the manager in hospitality where people have to listen to you, to people don't have to listen to you at all.

Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I think it was about 9 months and I hated almost every day. But it's crucial, I think, in this role. I still sometimes cold call people to support the team or when somebody's off sick, you know, I really don't mind because at those moments you really learn. And I listened to your podcast obviously, but I heard you say one thing that I don't forget. It's like playing chess, right? Yes. It's every time you play chess, the board is the same. It starts the same, but the outcome is always different. So.

And that's it. Because people think sales is this nice confined little thing, but no, it goes much like chess exponentially very quickly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I picture always like when you go to a birthday party from a friend, you meet new people and you have to kind of like them. And when you introduce yourself, you slowly start to talk and you already, you know, you already give them the upper hand because he's your friend's friend. So you need to be friends. And if you relate that to sales, think about that person not as you have to sell them something, but as your friend's friend. Be humble, be nice, and already like them kind of. And you'll see that the energy becomes a lot easier to flow with.

And that switch that you had from going from talking about how amazing the product was, which doesn't really create interest, to talking about what they're already interested in. Was that something somebody taught you or you just, you winged it one day and said, well, this isn't working. This is painful. Let me try something else.

I remember one of my managers always told me what he liked about me is that I asked different sources the same question, and I picked all the right answers that I liked and then did my own thing. So it's definitely, you know, always listen to different podcasts and different angles and really listen to podcasts, and then you pick out the right things. You know, I used to read even more books, but now podcasts is my thing.

Yeah.

But I can read sometimes you know, 30 books, but maybe 100 podcasts a year, right? 30 books is quite a lot actually. But it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, but, but, you know, keep listening to podcasts and every time you pick up something new and then try that strategy and, but just keep trying to listen to different podcasts.

When did you have your first success in sales or the first time you felt really comfortable that this was your thing?

I think that the first time that I actually achieved President Club, I mean, that is just a great achievement, right? When you hit that President Club and your name is being called out and you can fly to a resort that is all paid for, that's when I was like, oh wow, this is a different world, because I was always on the other side of the table.

Serving people.

Yes, exactly. So then I was like, okay, this is the way, this is the way to go forward. And, you know, my passion is always to help and serve people. And I wanted to bring that still across in sales is I actually felt like I was helping people. And yeah, that's why I just love what I do.

And how about the motivation to get into leadership?

Yeah, I think that just like I just touched on, right, it's helping and serving people that I really love. You know, it's getting the right people in that are motivated, that are hungry. Sometimes even people who had a lot of bad luck and but are very hungry. And, you know, just like you looking for, for people maybe in hospitality and giving them a shot if they want to hit the phones and if they, they want to work for it. Everybody can teach it. You can teach everybody, but hunger and willpower to work That's unteachable in my opinion.

Yeah. And also that resilience of getting that rejection.

Yes, absolutely. I just had one today of one of the guys who was rejected and he was so upset and he's a football player. And I said to him, you know, if Messi misses a penalty at the World Cup and there's still 10 minutes to play, he doesn't say, I'm going to sit on the bench and not play anymore. he's going to try to work even harder to find another goal to score, right? Yeah. And, and, and that's what I mean. It's, it's, it's— that's what separates us, is if you can take the hits but think about what did I learn here, and let's find something new.

That's it, that adjustment. And did hospitality give you that? Because you get a lot of—

Yes, absolutely.

Because people are super particular about their food. Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

And especially in London, I must say. I mean, I made the jump obviously from London to the Netherlands, back again. But you know, sometimes you serve people, but they are not too happy. You talk to them about it, but then they send like to the company a big complaining letter, and then you have to deal with it, right? It's then you have to invite them back for a complimentary meal because that's what they're after. And you know, that just— and for example, we had somebody who came for a birthday. And it wasn't good enough, we didn't give enough attention, so we had to invite them for complimentary thing. But then, you know, instead of being upset with them, I was always thinking, how can I make them more happy? So, you know, we would do a special welcome back starter, or for dessert, we would bring them a love dessert with text written in chocolate for thanking them for their feedback. You know, it's always this little extra, which we still try to do in sales, to be honest.

And that's it, because a lot of people would look at it the other way, like be angry at that person, but it's different. It's their treat. It's their birthday. Yes. And, and it may not even have been the service or the food. It might have just been the people they were with, right?

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, it's finding the moment still like this now is to To help people, you know. We had one of the customers the other day who had something to do with his health, you know. So we send him a birthday cake and flowers to say— not a birthday cake, but flowers and a cake to say, hey, I hope he recovers soon. Sad to hear that, you know. And he said, you know, you really made us emotional because a vendor to think about us as a customer like that, you know, does a lot for us. You know what I mean? Sure.

And that was something that certainly in your space, uh, the amount of time you can get with the clients to get them to open up about what they really care, because that's a— you're in a pretty competitive space.

Yes, yes, true. Yes.

And you have to become the differentiator.

Yes. And it's very difficult because, you know, you get these, uh, a lot of these independent reports that people pay a lot of money for and they say, yeah, but you're not in this quadrant or you're not this high. And, you know, and it's usually an enterprise quadrant, but you're talking to a mid-market customer and you say, yeah, but you know what I mean? And it's really building that relationship. You know, we even get feedback like, oh, you sold us something last month, why are you calling again? Yeah, but we told you we want a partnership with you. Oh, usually I don't speak to them when the renewal comes up after 3 or 5 years.

Yeah.

So it's that mentality that we really wanna bring.

Yeah. It's kind of moving from transactional to strategic.

Yes. Yes. And that's why we usually get customers that buy multiple products from us. Yeah.

Yeah. And if you were to design the perfect sales rep, what would the ingredients be?

The perfect ingredients be, um, is absolutely the hunger to willing to learn. It's, you know, I can teach and help people that it's hard when you get a no, and how to deal with it. But, you know, being in time in the office or an hour earlier and getting the job done, you know, especially now we're working from home, the time zone is so flexible. I mean, I get it, you have children or somebody even has COVID. I really get it. And I wanna be there for you. And, you know, if you wanna put your kids to bed, obviously, you know, I have to do the same. But, you know, if you open your laptop at 9 o'clock to finish what you had to finish, That's what I really love. It's not that I want them to work every day until midnight, but it's finding that fine line with the gray line. And that's why they get usually a lot of money in sales, right?

Well, you're trying to get results. You're trying— I mean, they pay us commission because it's not easy.

Exactly. And that's what people usually don't get. It's like, I want more basic salary. Yeah, it doesn't work like that.

No, you don't. You don't want more base salary. You want more commission.

Yeah, yeah, the one you have control over. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's— you're hitting the nail on the head. But I must say, lately, you know, I have a lot of people that stay a long time with us, which I'm so thankful for. But, you know, the market is really changing in terms of people offering money. As you said, it's a competitive space. In my opinion, it's, it's really crazy the amounts of money that is going people trying to steal people from other companies. So very thankful for the people we're working with and that they're willing to learn. But there's a lot of, you know, what I think I learned a lot is the grass is not always greener on the other side. It's where you give it water, I always say.

Well, you know, I'd love to be able to convince salespeople that the base salary isn't what you want. The base salary is what you trade in to be managed by somebody.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And sometimes they say, I get 20 or 30% more at this company. Okay. So what quota are you gonna get? Right. What do you mean? What quota am I gonna do? Is it easy to hit your numbers or are you gonna get an Excel sheet? Do you have a CRM? I mean, are you sure you're gonna be comfortable with what you build here where you almost certainly hit your quota and then you start building up or you have to start from scratch and have to compete with 10 other people for the same patch. And that's what they forget.

And how often do you see people that have that hunger to learn?

I think what I learned from my manager is, is to find those people that have that sparkle in their eyes, right? And, and I made a lot of mistakes with recruiting and I probably will still do because salespeople are salespeople. So when you're recruiting, they're usually good, right?

So very good interviewers.

Yes. Yeah. So, But I think we're getting better. And also, you know, it's never always guaranteed, but we're definitely getting better. Definitely. Yeah.

Yeah. Because something I kind of didn't learn last year, but kind of relearned or kind of lit up for me was this confirmation bias is the number one obstacle salespeople have.

Yeah, that's absolutely true. But also, I always say, like, I learned from a book that we have a person on your shoulder. He is— the book from Mo Gawdat. I don't know if you read it, but he calls it Becky. And as salespeople, we always have Becky on our shoulder saying, this customer wants to buy. So one of the things I learned is, you know, when a customer talks, 80% of the salespeople want to answer. Oh, I have a solution for what he's saying. Yeah, but I really learned like, okay, keep asking questions. Okay, well, why do you want this? And what is it going to do for you? What is the benefit? And the same for salespeople. Sometimes I see people still making a mistake. We're in a call with a customer, the customer says something, and I picture the product and they jump straight on it. But I'm like, you need to massage this in.

And where did you get that curiosity?

Again, from podcasts, different mentors. Yeah. And for example, one thing I wanted to highlight is I listen a lot to obviously your podcast, Dean Graziosi, but also still Jim Rohn. And Jim Rohn is one of my favorite heroes. He says, you know, I used to, when I didn't make President Club or didn't hit quota, you know, I had a list of things I could blame, right? And he talks about this blame list and he says on his blame list was the government, his colleagues, the economy is not right, he doesn't get paid enough. And he had a mentor and he said to Jim Rohn, you know, the only problem on your blame list is you're not on it. And I think we do that too much.

Yes.

If we miss out on a deal or, you know, the quarter, we blame COVID. I mean, I heard so many people say, oh, COVID. we can't do any sales, right? Our numbers are growing exponentially, but they're saying they can't. It's because of how you develop in the market, and you will always get wind against you.

And that, that was kind of an epiphany in my career as well. Um, I had lost a big deal, and I just kind of came to the conclusion, from now on, I'm on the top of that list. Because the rest I don't have any control over.

That's it. I have— don't even try it.

I have 100% control over what I spend my time on, my attitude, my energy level, um, my curiosity.

Absolutely.

And if you don't take that responsibility and you look at things you don't have control over— the economy, the weather, Uh, pandemics, whatever. It makes you feel good for the moment. Yes. But it's a lot like a cookie or a donut. It tastes good for about the first minute, and then you have a stomachache for the rest of the day.

Exactly. Exactly. No, but it's also like some salespeople are so comfortable with getting only 5 customers they speak to in a month. Right. But it's, it's, it's great, but you need to triple or quadruple that number. at least speak to 30 customers, you know, and I'm not saying, you know, they also always want to close because they're salespeople. But if you have more people you talk to, you can see where you can build a relationship and say, hey, I give you an extra 5% if you procure this month, but you need to have, you need to build out that. I honestly think you need to build out the amount of people you speak with.

You do. And You have to have that hunger, that ambition. There has to be some drive behind it. Where does yours come from?

Um, yeah, that's, that's quite philosophical, I think. And, and from a young age, you know, always trying to, from a family side, be a performer. I was the youngest, and, you know, I had an older brother, so I needed to be maybe equal, maybe be better. So, you know, I, I moved early to London and tried to find different avenues there and land on my own feet. I didn't want any help. And I think, you know, that, that's still what's driving me today. I, I, I just wanna show that I can do it. I'm not the youngest anymore. And I, I can show that I'm, uh, I'm self-sufficient, if that makes sense. So, yeah.

And was this you and your brother or did you have more siblings?

No, me and my brother. Me and my brother. Yeah. And also in IT.

Yeah. What was the age gap?

1.5 years.

Okay, real close.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I don't find the youngest doing that well in sales in a lot of cases.

What can I say?

Well, the youngest tends to have more confidence because the parents have a little bit more experience by the time they get to you, where the first one's like the beta.

Yeah, I can see that in my— with my own children.

Right, you get a little training.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. No, I just think that I'm quite an emotional person as well. And then again, I used to have a blame list that was probably worth a book. And, you know, then you start to adapt and, you know, you start to think that, what do I really want to achieve? Right. And then I started also to listen to Tony Robbins a lot. That helped me a lot. And You know, goal setting. What is goal setting? I didn't even know what it was until, you know, 5 or 10 years ago. And now I'm setting goals and then you become more hungry when you set goals, right?

Yeah.

And we do it in business and we do a forecast, but we don't really explain to people why we do it.

Yeah.

And that's why I like your YouTube videos, by the way, when you walk on the street, it makes so much sense because the why is not really clear for a lot of salespeople.

Yeah, because the why can't be just a job or just to pay my bills. The why has to be something bigger— your family, uh, your potential. And that friendly competitiveness with siblings is good.

Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. And how about the, the resilience when you do get rejected or when things don't go your way or your goals aren't met, how do you internalize it and process it?

You know, I don't think you ever can shut off your emotions to deal with it. Um, but I, I think again, when you listen enough to motivational speakers or podcasts and stuff like that, try to learn from it. But also, you know, it might sound a bit strange, but also trying to be You know, listen to it. And it's okay to be upset even 1 or 2 days, you know. But sometimes you're trying to be not upset, or, you know, take a drink, for example. Or, you know what— No, I know, but still a lot of people do it. They say, oh, I need a drink at the end of the week, right? And I think it's okay to say, oh, that didn't go as planned, let's pivot.

Yeah, because I think too many people externalize it. They try and blame the situation, the people. I wish I had better customers. I remember someone telling me, well, yeah, well, do you have control over the customer? Do you have control over you?

Yeah, no, exactly, exactly my point. Yeah.

And what do you think separates the very best reps that you've Either experienced, worked with, observed compared to the average?

I think what what is very important again has to do with willing willing to work. I mean, the best reps I can see is they they're willing to talk to a customer like it's a real human, and then also you know we have we're in software sales. They demo our solutions. The best sales show it. They're in a call with the customer and say, you know what, we don't wanna show you slides. Let me show you how it works. And they click through it. Do you wanna start a trial? Let us help you with the trial. And I absolutely believe, you know, you don't need to know if they start asking technical questions, but just when you're comfortable showing and actually showing a live demo, that makes all the difference. Yeah.

And that's it, because a lot of people think they can't get passionate about something like what you're selling or what I've sold in the past. I've always said, if you can't get passionate about it, how can you expect your customer to get passionate about it?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why, you know, we, we get a lot of job offers and stuff like that, but that is the one number thing I ask myself is, can I actually sell this? And can I believe in this product? So yeah, I 100% agree with you.

And where would you like to take your career?

I always said that I want to become a CEO. It's quite difficult, obviously, to become a CEO, but a lot of people are now on LinkedIn CEOs.

On LinkedIn, it's easy to become a CEO.

Exactly. So, no, I think, you know, leadership is definitely a route I want to explore. Explore and develop. I love working with people, and I really want to grow people. I think if I learned one thing is you know don't take the credit as a leader. Support your people and let them take the credit. And if they're about to fall, help them protect them. And you know when you turn around the deal, let them still take the credit. And wherever in leadership you'll need those skills. But I definitely want to become you know a board member somewhere or. you know, a vice president level somewhere. So I want to definitely grow that career. Yeah.

And for the people who are listening that aren't having the success they desire in sales, what would your advice be?

Talk to others, whether it's your competitor or not. I remember when I actually joined Barracuda as well, you know, it's an American company, but, and we have an internal Active Directory. But I started to call people in America from my role and say, hey, I just started in the Netherlands, you know, tell me, what are you doing? And they were like, who are you? But, you know, this is for me normal because I'm a very outgoing person and I talk to a lot of people. But I think absolutely do that, talk to people, whether it's in the same industry or different industry, but talk to other people. That's, that's the only way you learn.

That's it. Because a lot of people like what we call in the US, the water cooler crowd. These are the people, the disgruntled people, the people who don't feel the territory is worthy of them, or their manager doesn't like them, or they don't like their customers, customers don't like them. And they commiserate instead of find the best rep at the company who should not be the best rep. You know, that person who has that weird territory that You don't even think there's a computer in the territory, but they're crushing it.

Yeah, exactly. And they forget, everybody wants to reinvent the wheel. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I also say to the team, you know, I, every Monday morning we have a team meeting and I try to, you know, your slides come up with your nice slogans or motivational stuff. But, you know, many times I had the slide over that there's cavemen trying to pull a cart and the wheels are square. And the guy next to it is saying, hey, I have a round wheel here. And he's like, no, we're too busy. We're too busy pulling the cart while the solution is there because they're so focused on their patch, their territory, what they're selling, but be more open. Talk to other people.

Well, that's it because you don't have to start from scratch. Somebody has figured it out.

Yes, exactly.

And you might argue with them, but you gotta say like, well, why are they successful and I'm not? Maybe I should, Like you did, moving from talking about how amazing the product is to what the client cared about.

Exactly. Yeah. And also think, you know, we are over 1,500 people, not a massive company, but it's quite a sizable company. Talk to different departments. I mean, we have now the best relationship ever with marketing because, you know, we care about what they do, but many times still say, yeah, marketing leads, the leads are weak, right? I mean, you heard that probably many times, but for us, marketing is working so extremely well because we have an amazing relationship and we actually thank for what they do. We always think, yeah, sales is— we pay your jobs, right? Legal or shipping or whatever department it is. But it's actually everybody pays everybody's jobs.

Yeah. Cool. Hey, I appreciate your time today, Ilan. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Absolutely LinkedIn. They can send me a private message. All my details are on there. If they use smart tools like Lucia, I'm not making commercials, but they can find my cell number on it. So yeah, that's the best way to connect with me.

You can probably see why his team recommended him for the show. And I could have put this on the Sales Leadership Show, but I thought we'd all get a lot more out of it as well on this show. But what you saw and what hopefully you heard was that that background in restaurant management and dealing with people and weird hours and clients gave him a great background, a great work ethic, and developed his personality and his mindset to become great at sales. Now, Don't take this wrong. It doesn't mean you have to go and do that to have it. But as individual salespeople, we need to develop it. First, develop the personal responsibility that it is our job to sell. It's no one else's job to buy. And then develop the curiosity of why they would buy. What would cause that to happen if you were in their shoes? What would you do? Psychologists call this theory of mind, and they say it develops in childhood. Unfortunately, I haven't seen it develop much in adulthood. But if you can have it, if you can develop it, if you can make it one of your skills— now, this is the tactical side. Everybody says, do more tactics, Brian, more actionable Items after the part. Well, this is actionable. Develop this mindset. Become more proactive. Ask yourself, how could I become more proactive? I did a poll on LinkedIn, you know, and of course 80% of the people say they're proactive. Eh, I think it's the other way around. Everyone thinks they're more proactive than they are. And this was one of the big, uh, points that I got out of last year's work was that our biggest obstacle is hubris. It's our ego. It's our primitive brain wanting to be comfortable instead of accomplishing things. So we get into that B-player trap where we're nice and warm and things are going our way, but we're not getting that potential that we could have if we extended ourselves. Now, in sales, a lot of people think being proactive is hounding people. It's pounding the phones and hitting your cadence button as fast as you can. Unfortunately, that doesn't work because everyone does it. We have to become more creative. And if you're looking to become a meeting-getting magician, you got to check out Start the Conversation and Get the the meeting. This is where for a year long you get to become part of a community of other salespeople, get to listen in on their one-on-ones. Everything's anonymous. It doesn't matter what you're selling. It's B2B. Many decision makers, big time gaps in between meetings, big dollar amounts, and it tends to get stalled. And what I do is I teach you how to prevent that. I share with you, you know, my experience over the years and helping other reps and closing lots of deals. You got to become better at sales. It is a performance profession. It is not just a knowledge profession. And the mistake that people make with the course is they take the core content, but then they don't do the work. That, that doesn't It gives you the comfort that you know it, but applying it is where the magic happens. Developing that skill, those things that appear like magic after you once develop them, but only you can do it. No one else can put words in your mouth. No one else can make you do anything that you don't want to. But if you want to, if you want to become better at it, Check out the courses at b2brevenue.com. There's a video overview. There's one on how the courses work, and then there's another one on which course is the right one for you. They're both in the show notes right below this episode. Just swipe up on your podcast player. You'll see the links there. It's also on the YouTube channel, uh, right when you return to it, and on my LinkedIn profile as well as the website b2brevenue.com. Under training. If you really want to become great at sales, invest a little bit of time and a little bit of money, because the money, it pays for itself by the time you get the credit card bill. Let's face it. So it's really laziness that is the thing that prevents you. Will you learn something from it? Of course you will. I learn stuff from it because you're hearing other people. No one's coming to the course with a full pipeline. Most people are coming with like, I got no leads, I got a new territory, uh, I already tried, you know, all the crap you learned on LinkedIn from failed SDRs who, you know, haven't worked in a company in 15 years. If you want to learn what works today, leveraging technology but not obfuscating yourself from it, What you can do is magic because everyone else is doing it less than well. They're relying on install base of customers, brand recognition, category recognition, problem recognition. And if you have that, congratulations. And if it's working, okay, keep going. I'm not trying to change how you do it. I'm trying to help you improve. how you do it and close more deals. Okay, enough about the training courses. Also, check out our friends over at Scratchpad. It's a super easy way to get the things that you need into Salesforce and your manager off your back because it's right there wherever you are on the internet, and you can just quickly type in the things that you need. Super simple. Check it out. Even if you're not a big user of Salesforce, tell a friend about it. Tell a friend about the show too. Thanks for watching and listening.

I was just going to give a bit of a testimonial, if that's all right, just to kick it off.

Only if it's positive.

No, it is positive. It was a— yeah, um, just because I started the course, I think, in June of last year, 2021. I got a few more months left of access, which is good, um, but I feel like it's been a transformative experience in my own personal and professional life. I was able to go from a period of a low sales slump in the middle of last year, in the summer and early fall, and then really was able to then come back and exceed my target by the end of the, by the end of the 4th quarter. And so the only other thing I would say is that it's also really differentiated me amongst people on the sales team in terms of focus and clarity of what's important. And now I feel really good about what I'm doing in terms of the approach of reaching out to customers and having those conversations and being focused, as opposed to just doing a lot of the other busy work on the side, like organizing resources and doing business analytics and all this other stuff. And so it's really been a noticeable difference with our executive team at, at my company. And so I just want to thank you for the content and for the these opportunities. And so I hope that helps if there's anybody new. It's— I'm a work in progress, but it's getting better.

Good. Yeah. And you're selling pretty hard stuff.