HOW THIS SURPRISING APPROACH IS WORKING TODAY

Imagine this. Imagine selling services into the C-suite with a little brand recognition, uh, pretty much on your own, very little or no inbound. And you require a lot of conversations, a lot of discussions, a lot of selling, and you're selling services. So there's nothing like he can demo. It doesn't have the typical simple sale process, even from the customer standpoint. Their point of view is, ah, yeah, we should do something. Could we do it ourselves? Could we buy a product? Should we work with our existing service providers? Why do we need to go outside? Why do we need to get yet another vendor to help us? How's that for a sale? Sounds pretty simple, huh? Not at all, right? And that's why this makes such a great interview. Because when you look at the hardest of the hard, you start to see the skills that we all should be developing, even if we have a simpler sale. Because just because the sale is simpler doesn't mean that these steps don't exist. And that we don't need to take control over it. One of the things I want you to look for in this interview is look for the proactive versus the reactive. A lot of us may have some luxury in having reactive type of activities, but sales, and certainly in B2B, is a proactive process. You need to guide the person through This process. And then to do that, you got to know what it is. You gotta avoid the traps because the client is naturally going to pull you into them, not out of malice, but out of ignorance, out of they don't know how to get it done. We had a great office hours yesterday. And, you know, when the sales reps go, boy, you were right. Clients do not know how to buy.

Not administratively.

Not politically and not economically. And that's why deals get stuck. They don't get stuck at the first call. The first call is usually great. There's no risk on their side. They're getting a lot. We're giving a lot. But then what do we do? How do we keep it going? How do we prevent it from getting stuck? And we placate ourselves with these excuses. About, oh, no decision, status quo, they couldn't get it done, uh, they didn't, uh, see the value, they didn't appreciate it. Oh, there was some end run by some executive. Oh, there's no budget, or the budget's not in the right place. Well, yeah, that happens, and there's some legitimacy to all of that, but it's all Preventable. It's hard to repair, but easy to prevent. But you got to know how. And let's get into the interview. I'll sum it up at the end. I think you're really going to appreciate this great salesperson. I think it's also one that you should see on video on YouTube to see how the person presents himself. There's a level of confidence, certainly not cockiness at all, but a comfortableness. And his approach is something that we all can adopt, and it is having business conversations. Let's get into it. I'll sum it up at the end.

Hey, Bill. Thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Yeah, sure. Happy to be here, Brian. I work with a company called Weidenhammer. We're a digital transformation consulting company organized around 4 different pillars or brands that focus on things like software development, process automation, web and marketing, e-commerce technology, as well as infrastructure and security. I've, I've been in some form of technology sales for over 10 years and have been with Weidenhammer for 6.

And why sales for you?

In the blood, in the blood. My dad was a career salesman and, you know, saw him move up through the ranks into the executive role and had a good, you know, made a good life for himself. So always aspired to be like my old man in that way as well as in many others. And I think beyond that, just always had a temperament and personality that enjoyed meeting with people, enjoyed solving problems and understanding how I can help.

Yeah, there seems to be a pretty good correlation between those who have been raised by parents that were salespeople and then get into it, because I guess it takes away that initial resistance. It's like, you know, is that what I want to be?

What is it?

Am I hounding people?

It does. I think another thing that's helped me is, you know, in my position, I'm often working with senior executives, right, as my decision maker and my buyer. And having had one of those as a parent takes a lot of the intimidation factor out of it.

So you have a little bit of research on the persona, huh?

Yeah, you could say that.

How long did it take before sales felt at home, that you had that groove, that you knew it was going to be the right thing for you?

Probably the first 6 months of my career.

Really?

Um, yeah, yeah, it's funny. I, um, in college, um, had a lot of fun, right? Uh, enjoyed my, um, you know, my time there, and, uh, really didn't know what I was in for when I, when I sort of jumped into, uh, the career. I actually started out in IT recruiting. on the recruiter side of the desk. But even there, there's a large, you know, sales element. And it was a very good place to cut my teeth, right?

Yeah.

So really sort of thrown right into the fire and picked up a lot of the fundamentals, you know, really, you know, gained a strong work ethic there because you had to just to make it. But I quickly found, even though there were things I didn't you know, love about that world, um, the, the constants, um, there that I've had, you know, through this point in my career, um, are all things that I, I quickly, you know, found I enjoyed. Um.

And do you feel like you had a head start, you know, seeing your dad as a role model? Because I'm sure you heard kind of the mantras, right, about, you know, be on time, be prepared. You know, sure, understand what the other person cares about.

Yeah, I think the, I think the biggest thing that he did was really lead by example, right? And, and that's, uh, where a big, a big chunk of my work ethic comes from, for sure.

And what were some of the key pivot points that really got you to the next level in your career? And as far as skill set?

Yeah, good question. Um, I remember, uh, in, in my, um, first leg, right in the recruiting world, I— the biggest initial shift that I saw was when you could get out of having to, having to think through all the basic fundamental steps that you had to take in each conversation, and having that sort of be ingrained and able to flow through that naturally. And so by doing that, you're able to navigate the conversation, you know, keep the momentum going, And allow yourself the ability to think about where you want to go next. That didn't come right away. That was something that I needed. You needed time in it to gain an understanding of the material and the topics you're talking about and what the script is supposed to be. But once you kind of get those things down and you gain some confidence, you're able to actually think while you're going through the process of a conversation in a sale. And through that, allow yourself the ability to better navigate the, you know, the paths that you have available to you.

And how did you develop that? Did you draw it? Did you write it down? Did somebody tell you it?

Good question. Probably all of the above. I'm pretty big going into each conversation and being prepared, right? So I, you know, I'll tee up, you know, several new conversations per day, and for each of those, right, I'm going into them with dedicated time to prepare on my calendar to better understand who that person is, right, their space, their company, right, where, what can I draw on, what might they find most relevant in terms of the services that we provide, right, and know that even if I'm not asking questions pertaining to each of those throughout the conversation, knowing that I have those paths available to me as places that we might want to lead the conversation, right? So, and, and while I've been doing it, you know, long enough that I can, I can go into some conversations blind and be effective, I'm more effective when I'm prepared, for sure.

Well, well, that's it, because people think, oh, I've been doing it n number of years, I've given the presentation n number of times. But you got to warm up, you got to kind of get your groove on. Ask yourself, what's the outcome that you want? What do you think they're going to come up with? You know, if I say this, what do you think their reaction is going to be?

Mm-hmm.

Those type of things, especially in your sale. You know, a service sale is pretty complex.

It is, it is, especially when, you know, some of the services that we provide are truly, you know, transformational, which is impactful, right? So there's a very real value to it. But, you know, some Executives will, will see that and gravitate to it quickly. And others, you know, you may have to lay a little more groundwork, right, to get them to that point. And the other, the other, you know, big challenge— it's a blessing and a curse here— we provide a broad range of services, which is great because just about everybody could use us in some way, right? It's just a matter of identifying, uh, you know, what, in, in which area, um, and when the timing is right.

What's the hardest part of your sale?

It's probably that, honestly. It's, it's, um, I think the first, uh, when, when you step into this role, the first thing, like, you know, many new companies and positions, is fully comprehending everything we do and being able to carry the conversation and, and just being able to open those doors. Those are things that I think, you know, you have to learn and can be, you know, can be taught to do in most positions. But once you're at that point and you're able to get the at-bats, being able to successfully take those conversations, you know, through to an opportunity and close is something that takes, you know, even more time to get down. And I think it comes down to a lot of the things that I had said, right? Being able to fully understand and comprehend the things that we do, and being able to think your way through and map out those conversations as you go.

Now, I got to imagine you don't get many inbound, like people filling out the website going, I need some digital transformation services, have Bill call me. You don't get those, do you?

Not enough. We do get— CEO of GM. Yeah, we do get a little bit, right?

You do?

Really?

A little, a little, right? But they're not— it's rare that they are— that they come across as, hey, we're, you know, we're looking for you to transform our business, right? It tends to be more specific, right?

Pinpoint.

Exactly, right. And that's okay, right? That's how most of our relationships start, right? Is we come in to fill a need that's timely, and valuable in and of itself. But through the, you know, the services that we provide and through the impact that the services we provide have in an organization, right, we're able to go in and navigate through the organization to provide value elsewhere. Right. So that's the biggest blessing related to having this, you know, this broad range. But you're right, the amount of inbound is low. Where we are able to generate the most inbound is through efforts of folks like myself and the experts in our technical teams speaking at events and conferences and really, you know, positioning ourselves as the thought leaders that we are. And through that, right, instilling some confidence and credibility in the audience and, you know, range of potential customers. So We do generate it that way. I don't know that I would characterize that as purely inbound, right? Somebody starts—

Yeah, that's kind of like content marketing, right? Thought leadership, you know, starting a conversation with them by showing your expertise.

Right. And if I'm— if I make a bit of a distinction, right, not that I don't have any help from marketing in that activity, but I'm putting a lot of my own time into that. So it's not a, it's not a bluebird inbound or anything like, you know, like that, right?

You're out there earning it.

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But it's interesting that you bring up that, you know, that idea in our digital marketing world. One of the, one of the services that has been, you know, fastest growing for us in the past 3 years has been digital marketing services and retainers for B2B companies. And a lot of them, yeah, a lot of them are in manufacturing, you know, wholesale distribution, and those, those sorts of industrious spaces where sales have been relationship driven. They've been driven by name and reputation, right? And it's, it's boots on the ground, face to face. And those industries, like most, right, are moving towards a digital sale. You know, as buyers are more, you know, their birthdates are getting later and later, they're more tech savvy, they don't want to fax in orders, they do their research. And I think about that often, as I help, you know, our customers in those segments to move more towards a digital, you know, way of attracting business and a digital sale. I think about that often reflecting on my, my own position.

Well, right, that the days of people seeing an ad, converting, giving their email address to get a book of some piece of content, and then the salesperson calling and turning it into a deal. Compare that against that they hear Bill talk about a success story of, you know, before, middle, and end, and what you ran into and what you learned. And all of a sudden they reflect, well, that sounds like what we're facing.

Right, right.

Yep.

Yeah, the other, the other advantageous, you know, position that we're in being in technology is the constant change means that there's a constant opportunity for education of our customers. And we've also seen that our buyer personas have shifted significantly over the past 5 or even 10 years from being the director of IT or a CIO 99% of the time to being business leaders in different lines of business, the CFO, the CEO, right? And with those folks, there's even more of an education opportunity, right, which is, which is a good, a good position to be in, in terms of generating credibility for yourself. They're also closer, they tend to be closer to the value impact of the service as well, which is a good thing.

And how do you stay out of the commoditization? Meaning, like, let's say you go, you speak, they say, Bill, tell us more about that. You have several meetings, then they agree they want to do something. You propose a solution, they try and get it done, and they go, well, we don't have a contract with them. We've got a contract with my cousin over here. And I think he's good at this digital transformation stuff. He read a book. Why don't we use them? Because services can very easily be commoditized because, you know, they're hard to test because it's people and it's faith and it's trust and it's belief.

Sure, sure. Well, I think you sort of just answered the question, right? You have to, you have to, um, you have to be able to establish those things somehow in the, in the process of developing the relationship and the sale, right? So one of my— easily my largest tactic right now for developing new opportunities is using my existed, you know, trusted connections and relationships, whether they're networking connections or customers, right, to, to be introduced to the folks that I'm trying to meet. And with that, there's credibility inherent just in the connection that's made. So then you're starting out in a position where you're a little ahead of where you would've been if it was entirely cold. So that's a big thing that helps put you sort of out in front of the 8-ball from the beginning. Otherwise, when you're in a position of being competitive, I try not to shy away from the areas where things are commoditized, right, and focus and lean in on what we believe our differentiators to be, which depending on the service or the area where, you know, we're talking about can range, right, based on our experience or our, you know, broad service and complementary solutions. So it just depends, but I try not to shy away from the fact that aspects of what we do are commoditized, because I feel like when you've evened the playing field in that way and offered that level of transparency, you then develop more of that credibility and trust we're talking about.

And what would you characterize, or if you were to build a great salesperson for your company, say that you had a lab and a bunch of DNA, you could program CRISPR, you could program it the way you want it, what would the ingredients be?

Good question. And it's one that we, you know, like everybody, we're hiring. And it's not easy to find, you know, to find good help. Hardworking and good work ethic is definitely one of the ingredients. I think, to some degree, a natural ability to converse and be personable. And I think that that, in most cases, even goes a step beyond just being able to carry a conversation. But if you can find somebody that that is genuine and actually, you know, cares about the people that they're talking to on the other end. I think that comes through and translates to results. So that— those are, those are the first 2. And I think that from those, depending on your level and where you're at in your career, a lot of the other things can be, you know, can be taught in terms of tactics, right, and direction and understanding our industry and the services we provide. But if you can start with those 2 things, I think you've got the sort of foundational DNA that you need to build on.

But how did you do it? How did you go from technical recruiting to being able to present on digital transformation and feel comfortable and confident enough to add value there?

Yeah, so I, it's It's a good question. I think that part of it, part of the confidence, like I had said before, had been instilled early on, right? I, I never was really too concerned with the level or I guess the experience of the person that I was calling or presenting to, right? The other side of it is I'm generally presenting on topics which I have, I have expertise in from a business value and impact level, but not a technical implementation level. I can't write a lick of code. Right. So that's something that you have to over time understand how to navigate and based on your audience, understand where, where and where not to lean. Right? So if I have a room full of CFOs, I know that I'm probably one of the most technical people in the room as someone that's not technical, right? Whereas if I'm presenting to a team of CIOs, right, I have to very clearly understand that and know where the, where the boundaries are. And I'm lucky to have a strong, you know, team of pre-sales technical resources here who I can I can bring in to tag team those sorts of conversations with.

And do you typically run into the, you know, the trap of you go in, you build the need, the vision, the spec, and then they take it and they shop it around? Kind of like the ad agency model where they— everyone comes in for the beauty contests, None of them are paid, right?

Right, right.

And they decide to do it internally with those ideas, or—

Right. Sometimes. Rarely. I think the earlier on that you can identify and generate, right, that level of credibility and trust that we always are striving for, the easier it is for you to ask those kinds of questions well in the early stages of the qualification, you know, aspect of the sale. And then at least you know what you're in for, right? So if you know this is going to be a competitive sale, you know, you've understood that, you know that their procurement department or their finance department requires they have, you know, multiple bids, you can understand that. And in some cases, when you really have credibility and trust, you can You can even help them, you know, with that aspect of the, of the process. So, but are we, are we often brought into scenarios where, you know, we've helped to identify and create the need and then get chopped around without, you know, a level of transparency or even influence? That's, that's pretty rare.

So if it's rare, how— what do your clients want from you?

Return on investment.

Well, that's the end. That's the outcome.

Okay.

But let's take it the other direction. From the time they hear about Bill to the time they order from you, What do they care about? Because you don't sound like a sales guy, which is a compliment.

From a sales guy?

Well, yeah, from a guy who talks to sales guys all day. Because what I— I understand this market. I've worked with several companies in this space to start a conversation with that executive and continue it through a sales process. You know, they don't want to hear about your company. They want to hear about what you can do for them.

And, you know, it's funny, even though return on investment is the result, right? They want to understand that that value will and can be delivered, right? So in some cases, they want to understand where you've where you've been able to deliver that in the past, right? And some customers will be very focused on understanding that you've done it for somebody exactly like them. And that's— that may or may not be the case, right? But if you can, if you can help them understand the, you know, the concepts and the values that they can drive, right, in terms of the services that we provide, And then through that conversation with them, convey that you not only understand their business at a high level, but you understand their— the problem and the challenge that they're faced with, and the goals that they have, and how those dots can be connected, right? Then, then you're all speaking the same language. And if you can get to that point where you've connected the dots of your solution and the theoretical value that it can drive with their business goals, then the, you know, then, then it becomes almost a no-brainer, right, to move forward. So I still, with, with my buyer being primarily the CFO, the CEO, the COO, under understanding that, that business value early on in the conversation, being able to define it to an extent, um, is, is critical. And those are the, those are the opportunities where we're, where we're winning.

And how do you either prevent or not fall into like the competitive trap or the alternative trap where they could do it with another in-house, another vendor outsourced overseas, or we could just buy a product?

Yeah, so buy a product is interesting. And again, I think the answer here is that I don't shy away from the fact that those alternatives exist.

Yeah.

Right. So, so if we're in a, if we're in a situation where let's say we are talking about custom software, right, and they're, they're looking at solving a need with custom software or with buying something off the shelf, I want, I want to dive into that comparison and conversation with them. And I want to clearly explain, and this is genuine, that the opportunity to buy something that's going to meet 100% of your needs and keep you out of the technology business is probably the way you should go if that's available.

If possible, yeah.

But let's look at it in detail. What are your needs and is that the case? Here are the pros and cons of either path. And again, by being transparent and genuine, we may not close that initial sale, but I've made a friend and a trusted partner for the long term. And I think I had hit on it before, but with the nature of technology, which is constantly changing, and with the nature of our services, which are fairly diverse, right, and can impact, you know, the entire organization from team to team and department to department. When we do get that opportunity to come in and drive value, it's critical that we, that we do that from the onset to be able to capture the rest of that, you know, the rest of the organization. So it's not, in my mind, it's not worth jeopardizing that long-term value and potential together by trying to jam a square peg in a round hole. So I don't shy away from those things. This is the same for the other alternatives you had talked about, whether it's bringing someone in-house, there can be a value to that. You can institutionalize that knowledge, but then you get all the headaches of having employees and are you trying to get in the technology business? Right. So each of the scenarios have pros and cons and situations where they're called for and not, and that's okay. If today your situation is— your problem is better solved by an alternative, then I support it wholeheartedly, and I'll be here for the next conversation.

Right.

Because if it is, they're going to find out.

Right.

And you're going to put a ton of time and effort into it and try and, you know, keep them away from it. But some— but eventually somebody say, why don't you just do this?

Right. Maybe they bring us in and, and they find, you know, throughout the course of the project or after the delivery, they find that lesson, you know, they learn that lesson painfully. Right. And then we've, you know, we've, we have an entity here we'll probably never do business with again. Or, you know, in your example, in the sales process, I'm trying to push them somewhere that they maybe shouldn't go. And I invest the time, lose the relationship and the sale, right?

Yeah.

So that's been another shift in my career, right? When you start with no book and nothing, you know, nothing to fall back on, Every little sale is critical in the end of the world, which I can, I can relate to because I was there. But when you can grow out of that, it's easier to have a longer view mentality.

And is there something that you do in your sale that you don't see other salespeople doing?

Good question. I think that we've hit a little bit on it here, but one, one thing I, I do think that I'm strong in is— well, it's really twofold, right? Being able to navigate the conversation and understand the various places I may want to take it, right? And being able to do that effectively in an organic way, I think, is something that I'm strong in, and that's a skill that I've learned over time for sure. And again, the preparation is a, you know, is a big part of that. That's probably number one. The other is similar in that I'm able to effectively connect business value to the person on the other end of the line and the solution that, you know, we were talking about. And that can be done through a number of different ways, whether it's, you know, selling on case studies or just being able to translate, you know, the notion of what we're talking about into terms that are real for the business leader that we're You know, that I'm, that I'm speaking with. Um, that's something that took, that took time as well.

Hey, give us a sense of how much preparation you put into like an average call.

15 to 30 minutes depending. It just depends on, um, if we're, uh, if I'm— I, I sell to a lot of financial services organizations, um, credit unions, insurance companies. The preparation that I go through for new connections in that space tends to be the same playbook, nuances and changes here and there, but more or less the same. That's an easier prep cycle for me. Whereas if we have somebody come in an industry that I'm less familiar with, right? That may involve more prep, more research, more conversations, you know, for me across my organization, understanding, you know, what, what I have at my disposal to leverage in terms of success relationship, relationships, case studies. So it varies, but 15 to 30 minutes is a good average.

Good.

Great. Hey, Bill, I appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Uh, my LinkedIn would be a good, a good place to start. Bill McGarry with Weidenhammer, um, and my contact info is all there. And of course, you can always check out Weidenhammer's website, which is www.hammer.net.

What I learned from it is that we have to take 100% responsibility for our deal. We have to be proactive. We have to navigate And be the navigator of a deal. And the hard part of that is we have to know how deals get done. Deals do not get done by just simply sending a proposal in and hoping. That's how a lot of people think deals get done because it has happened when people want to reorder something. That's how it happens when somebody already has used and knows your product or service and trusts it, that can happen. Or if you're dealing with somebody who's got a lot of power and has a lot of urgency, it can happen. But most often it doesn't happen, about 80% of the time. And that's the situation we're in, in business-to-business large new account selling. Is that it's all fun and games until we find out the deal is dead. And we don't find out until it's been dead for a while, which makes it even harder to repair because people do not like delivering bad news. It is against our nature. Nobody, unless you're a sadist, really likes to see other people in pain. So we kind of cushion it or avoid it or delay it instead of communicating it. And there's a lot of things that you have to do from the very beginning to lead this deal through the process, to break it into tinier pieces, not to elongate it, but to have more direction, momentum, and control Over it. Otherwise, we're reacting to it. And the reaction— we're not really doing anything. We're servicing the deal instead of leading the deal. It is our job to lead it because they do not know how. The worst case is they think they know how and they don't. And that's Imagine a driver in a car thinking they know how to drive, but they don't. What happens? The car is in the ditch. It spins out. Bad things happen. We, or someone, has to know how to get this deal done. And when you have both people, both the seller and the customer, overconfident, you know it's going to die. And it is walking a tightrope in some situations to get it done. You need a certain level of rapport with the client. You need to guide them, lead them, give them the materials that they will need to get it done. You will not be able to talk to every single person who could possibly touch this deal or influence it because There's too many. There's so many unknowns. So you have to do your best at covering the people that you do, arming them with the compelling reasons why they need to do it. And this— it's work. But think of all the work you put in to get the meeting, to get that first demo. To win the technical sale. And then you think you have a deal, but then it gets stalled. It gets pushed back. It gets marginalized. And then what do you have? You have either, at best, a small deal, at worst, nothing, and maybe an RSVP. I'll be back next quarter. We'll get it then. This is the nature of the large complex sale. And it's just one big trap after another. We need to be able to map it out, know where you are and know where you want to go and know how to get there and all of the hiccups along the way. And plan ahead so that you don't run into these traps, into these ditches, into these abysses of a deal. You need to avoid them, go around them, prevent them. And that's what Winning the Complex Sale is all about. And now's the time. A lot of people say, when's the best time to start? I go, as soon as you heard about the course 4 years ago was the best time to start when it was first available. What's the second best time?

Today.

What's the third best time?

Tomorrow.

Because the sooner you learn this and start practicing and start evolving your awareness of how a complex sale gets done and your ability to lead it is the sooner you're going to win more of these. The sooner these deals are going to get done, the bigger these deals are getting done. If you heard the review of the person who took meticulous care of his metrics, Year to year, increases revenue 30% by taking the course. Now, that 30%, that's at the top end of your comp plan. Look at your numbers this year. If you had 30% more, that's a lot of money in your pocket. And it's not just once, it's for the rest of your career. And it starts to compound because you're going to get better and better. And this student, you know, I worked with him for a year on this. He made a big transition. He had a tough territory at a tough time in a very busy market space. And we worked together to maximize his income, maximize the number of deals that he could close, the size of the deals, and the speed of the deals. When you put all of these things together, magic happens. And this is your income we're talking about. So when people say, oh, the course is just— it's too much money, it's not too much money. It's peanuts compared to what you get. I would not worry about the money. I'd worry about your openness. Are you open? To becoming great at sales? Or do you think you already are? The market tells you how good you are. Are you making $500K a year? Are you making a million a year? Do you want to? If you don't want to, don't do it. But if you want to, how are you going to bring your game to the next level? It's not going to be by reading a book. It's not going to be by learning a new trick on LinkedIn. Tricks are great. Gimmicks are great, but they're not the whole game. You don't win the game on a gimmick or a trick. It can help, but you need a strategy. You need to understand the game you're playing first and then understand how to navigate and control it. And I've been in sales my whole life, and if I had known this when I started, It took me probably 15 years to develop this, 5 years to become, I'd say, above average in sales. I mean, I lucked out in that I was willing to put the 70, 80 hours a week in early in my career. I very quickly realized I don't like wasting my time. I don't like losing deals to competitors. I don't like deals that don't close because I do all the work and get no pay. So I wanted to learn it, and nobody really taught it. The people who knew it weren't good at articulating it or breaking it down or explaining it or differentiating what they did versus other people. And these were people with 30 years experience, you know. 7-figure people. And I just started watching them, comparing them to the people who weren't as successful. What did they do? I dissected the deals to get the strategies. I documented it over and over because I hated wasting time. I had an kind of an engineering mindset of how deals get done and just Study psychology, neuroscience, organizational behavior to understand how I can lead that deal. It's not that it's intellectually compelling. You just got to learn it because it is not taught. It's not just bring an insight or send them a gift. No, you have to understand where you are and where to take it. And once you do, you can win. And now's the time to do it because every day, week, month, quarter that goes by is costing you a minimum of 30%. Now you're going to pay it in lost commission. The difference between a lost commission and a commission— you don't feel the lost commission as much as you do the happiness of getting it. But just think of the deals. Look at your deals from last quarter. Think about if you got them, if they came in at the original quote, not the negotiated discount that you did to get it done, or they came in faster so that they're not slipped deals that you have to now work on this quarter. And now things are going to change. You're going to get— the new year is going to come and you're going to get a new comp plan. So you have to get deals done. And managers feed the A players. They help the B players and they get rid of the C players. Be an A player because it compounds. Check it out at b2brevenue.com. Thanks for listening. Make sure you're checking out the other podcasts, Sales Questions, Brutally Honest Answers, the Sales Leadership Show. And the B2B Revenue Leadership Show. If you see my stuff fly by on LinkedIn, please give it a like, comment, and share.

We'll see you next time.

Here's some excerpts from a one-on-one that I did with one of the students in Start the Conversation, Get the Meeting course. Now, this person really embraced the course after a while. It took a couple of one-on-ones for him to try each step. He kind of fought it, tried to make it work within his current model. And that, that really didn't have this type of success. And then after he started, he started to get meetings. He started to get conversations. He started to get all the things that I was telling him about. And he started to get excited about it. He started to see the results that I tell you about, where his week was full of meetings.

Now, I'll let you hear this out.

I deleted out kind of the specifics of the steps and the tools and the approach, but they're all in the course. If you're already in it, please listen to the full one-on-ones. When you hear the success that people are having, it's not just the steps. It's the matching of the steps with the appropriate Actions and pacing. And then you get people asking to talk with you, which is the goal, which is the fun. So let's listen to it and I'll sum it up at the end and give you kind of an idea and recommendation if you want to take advantage of this.

And it's crazy. This week, this week I'm full of meetings. I was like, what's happening? And like, I, what I did was I baked in like, I just, I'm very generic and people are like, oh, like, like, tell me more about you. Like immediately I have like 3, 4 meetings. Like I already had 2 this, and, and based on the, on the, on the parameters that you suggested for me, like, oh, go after these bigger companies. X amount of employees. So then by the time I'm talking to them, I already know that, okay, they typically have budget. I mean, assuming LinkedIn is correct with the employee size, some of it was off, but it's like, okay, there's still like a deal. It can still happen. And, but yeah, I was like, whoa, this is— I limited to like 30 connections a day. So then that way it's not like, it doesn't go crazy. Cause I remember one of the reps So do about 30 a day. Uh, like I said, like this week, like 4 or 5 meetings, and, and, and, and they're good meetings, you know. And it's just conversations, like you say. It's not about like pitching, but it's about working them up to that point where it's like, okay, yeah, we do need to advertise.

So after teaching this for quite a while, here's the steps that you should take. Take the course Once quickly through it. Find both one-on-ones and office hours that speak to the persona that you want to talk with, whether it be the CEO, the CMO, CRO, developer, marketer, whoever it is that you want to talk to, because we break it down in gory detail. We break down the persona and what they care about. And then try each step. Try it with your friends. Try it with your coworkers and start to see the results. Now, most people will fight me on it. They'll spend the first month, 2 months, uh, trying to make the system fit into their pitchy email and cold calls. And it works a little better, but it works a whole lot better when you apply it because each step and each pause in between each step has been designed over time to be very effective. And then when you start to see the results, all of a sudden people are replying, people are asking you, people are wanting to talk with you, want to understand what you do. It's almost turning cold outbound into warm inbound. Now, are they in market? No, no, they're not. But they're a little curious, and it's up to us. And I show you in the course how do you build off of Instead of us telling everybody how great we are and hoping they can understand why they need us. And instead of them arguing about why they don't need us. Because until you have active pain, everyone's in denial. Think about going to the doctor. Okay, you kind of know you need an operation, but you're like, can I get a prescription? And the doctor's like, he has to ease you, or she has to ease you into the process. Well, let's take an x-ray. Let's see what we're working with here.

Oh, can I?

How about just a shot? Can I just get a shot till the next time I come in? Then he flips the x-ray up on the light and he points to something. He goes, that's what we're dealing with. That doesn't heal on its own. You have to have surgery for that. He has to build up To that. Until we build up that latent pain into active pain and properly diagnose it and get people to think about what happens if they don't have that operation, they're going to avoid it at all costs. That's why the cold pitch doesn't work. You're just igniting the denial. You're not igniting interest or curiosity. It's just denial. So check out the course, start the conversation, get the meeting. It's all at b2brevenue.com. There's an overview video in the show notes on my YouTube channel and on my LinkedIn profile, pretty much everywhere I am, as well as the website b2brevenue.com. Check it out if this is what you need. You know, this student, zero sales experience, but really, you know, just gobbled up this. And the people who gobble it up the fastest and the best are people who try it and get success. It has nothing to do with knowledge. It's like learning how to do a sit-up doesn't give you a 6-pack. You have to do the sit-ups. They're not fun at first. But then you get used to them and you start to like appreciating them. And then you start to get the connection between how you look and what you do. And so you start doing the things that make you look better. This is what we have. It's not just knowledge. It is applying it, taking feedback, polishing it up, and applying the system to your clients.