HOW TO AVOID THE BIG DEAL TRAP AND CLOSE IT NOW

The complex sale is just full of traps. And what's a trap? A trap is something that is almost impossible to avoid. Ah, let's see, what's a trap? Let's— like in dieting, isn't, um, anything sweet? Most people like it, and it tastes so good, and one's not bad, but 10 is bad. And all of a sudden, 2? You start doing 2 a day? 2 cookies? See, that's a dietary trap where it's really easy to get into. Oh, come on, you only live once, have a cookie. And in truth, 1 cookie's not bad. 1 cookie every day, bad habit. 2 cookies every day, you get a little weight issue. My point here is that business-to-business sales is just full of traps. The commodity trap, and one trap we're going to be talking about today, I really didn't think about, but I've seen it my whole career myself, the people I worked with falling into it. It's nearly impossible to avoid. It's the big deal trap. I'm sure you've heard of it. I'm sure if you sat through a QBR, at least one person's in the trap and they don't even know it. And here's how it works. Hey, we're doing an enterprise-wide selection of a product in your category. Would you like to participate? Now, what could be wrong with that? Brian, what are you talking about? You're way too negative. Well, remember, we only get paid on what we close. And this sounds like a lot of business, right? Well, eventually. This has 2 traps in it. One is the big deal trap, where near impossible to avoid, and then it goes and sucks up all your time, and they end up doing either nothing or doing a tiny deal. And we're going to get into why and how you should handle this. And if you're in Office Hours or in the course, I did a whole episode on this— when to go for the gold, when to go for a small deal, and how to identify the big deal trap. Because the second part of the trap is people don't know how to buy. They act like they do. They say they do. They'll be adamant that they do, but they don't. Or at least they don't know how to buy what we sell, meaning that they don't understand the whole problem, the whole issues, the implications. Think about if you've bought a house or you bought a car.

How deep did you go?

You had a need, a want, a desire. And you had how you felt about what you saw. And if you felt good about it, let's go! Or you felt— whichever one you felt best about, let's go! But you didn't find out about the long-term implications of owning a car or a house for a year or two. That's why we need salespeople. I bought a rear-wheel drive sports car in July. In an area that snowed. And the first time I took it on the snow, it was like, like a quarter of an inch. The thing spun around in circles. I didn't think through the process.

It was July.

It was beautiful. It was sunny. I pulled the top off. I was enjoying myself. Sales rep didn't care, but I should have. So in the big deal trap, you're also in the trap that you assume that the client knows how to buy. They act like they do, right? But they don't. And this is why the big deal trap turns into a trap. And the, the client is sincere. They really do want to standardize on something, but that's a big step. That's a big change. That's a lot of money. Big decision. That doesn't go well with people. All of those things tell me this is going to take a long time. And I've been in this trap. I've seen people in this trap, and it eats reps alive. We'll get into it in this episode. At the end, I'll give you some more feedback on this if you really want to avoid this trap, or at least know how to manage it and close a deal. Check out Office Hours on Closing the Complex Sale. And I had an interesting call this week. I was talking to a manager who's using Brevity Pitch, and he was thanking me for the recommendation. And he goes, how is the best way to implement this? And I go, well, you would think reps are going to jump on this, but they're going to be apprehensive. So let people pick it up as they desire. You know, say, you know, one call a day would be a nice little way to start. Be less than a minute or two. Get used to it. Get used to talking to the computer. And it has a natural voice. But here's the secret. Watch who really gets into it. I bet it'll be your top rep. You know why?

Why?

Because they get that it's a performance. They want to be prepared. They know that preparation is the only thing we have in sales. And repair, that's, that's a pipe dream. Think about how easy it is to repair a deal. How— what's the number one question I get? How do I get somebody back on the line? They ghosted me. There's ways. But that doesn't mean they're going to engage again. That doesn't mean they're going to be interested again. Sales is all about preparation. Think about it in a relationship. When you kind of decide it's over, you're not into it, it's almost like a switch. The other person can come back and bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, but it doesn't really— it's hard to reconnect with that. Deals have momentum. And if the momentum's lost, you have a dead deal. And if you're not the one creating the momentum, who is? So Brevity Pitch allowed his top rep to prepare for a very complex meeting in ways that he, he couldn't foresee. You know, he told Brevity about the deal. All you have to do is I don't know if I'm spilling the beans here. They have now a verbal interface for just telling it how you want the call to go. You describe who it is you'd want to talk to, you know, VP of engineering, uh, who's been there n number of years. Give them the LinkedIn profile, give them the URL for the company, your competitors, and say, well, ask me really difficult competitive questions, whatever the context of the call is. And boom, it customizes a call for you. This is the future, baby.

Don't miss out.

brevitypitch.com. Check it out. Here we go.

Hey, Stephen, thanks for joining us today.

As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Absolutely. Thanks for the opportunity, Brian. Uh, so my background, um, is many moons ago, I joined the military in the UK, which was fantastic because it gave me a sense of purpose and a drive that I've been able to utilize throughout the career. After coming out of the military, I joined some tech companies, but it was more on a pre-sales role rather than sales initially. Dates back a while to the dot-com boom. And one of the things that I found in the pre-sales role was that I worked with some good salespeople and some not so good salespeople.

Come on.

I know, shock, shock, hey? And one of the things I found was I couldn't believe, bearing in mind it was the dot-com and money was being thrown around left, right, and center, some of the salespeople that I worked with would go into these meetings and they would just talk at the prospect, never ask any question, never ask them what their pain points were, and then would be surprised when the meeting ended and there was no follow-up. And over probably an 18-month window, I thought, this makes no sense. I think I could do a better job than this.

Yeah.

And so that's what really drove me to make a change from pre-sales to sales. And I know that's probably not uncommon. And from that point, Got into the software sales, found out I could actually do it, grew from there, and then probably about 13 years ago had the opportunity to move across to the US. And so I made that move 13 years ago and have worked in the US since, primarily in that sales role. But one of the passions that I found during that time is also helping People starting out in sales and passing on some of that knowledge and getting some of that knowledge transfer?

Well, let's go back to those good salespeople versus bad salespeople, because I think talking about those distinctions is where we learn. Because that rep who was talking through the whole meeting thought they were what, in control of the sales call, right? That they were driving the process.

Exactly, 100%. Now, having a good salesperson I worked with very early on in my career, she was actually a lady at a time when there weren't as many ladies in the sales space. And she was great because she was personable and she gave me one thing. She said, if there's one thing I want you to learn is people buy from people. And that's something that's just stuck with me throughout my career. And in terms of as helping others out is it's all about those connections and the people.

And yet leadership forgets about that, don't they?

They kind of don't want to. I think they know it, but they don't want to know it.

Absolutely. It's all about the numbers and the metrics. Right.

That the people don't matter.

Yeah. But without the people, there is no sale.

There's no number metrics to count.

Yeah. You can put up on your QBR a great slide that says, oh, there were 1,000 calls and we got 10 meet, all meaningless unless there's a connection with your prospect and you're solving a problem for that prospect.

Now, when you were new in the pre-sales role, how did you know what good selling was and Was it just looking at the reaction of the customers and the outcome or?

Yeah, that's part of it. And part of it was I'd sit there in the meetings and think if I was on the other side of the table, I'd be thinking, who is this person? And they haven't once asked me, what's your biggest pain point right now? So some of it was gut feel and some of it was putting myself in the position of the person on the other side of the table.

And how do you think people get so far in their career being so tone deaf with what works and what doesn't work?

Great question. And I think some of it is, in many instances, it's jumping from role to role to role and, you know, a tenure sort of a year, 18 months, 2 years, move on to the next one and get another 2 years. which is fine. But the beauty of this position, being able to sell, is to build that rapport with customers and to understand their problems and present solutions, not products, but solutions that help them get their outcomes. Because once you've got them like that and as a trusted advisor, the world's your oyster and the upsell opportunities are huge and much easier to get than a brand new logo sale. And so the rest, it all comes back to people again.

And people buy from people. What does that mean to you? Or, because I think that's like one of those things in life that sounds obvious, but the more you think about it, the more it expands.

Absolutely. For me, people buy from people is the person on the other side of the table. has got to trust you. They've got to believe in you and almost feel like we feel their pain and we've helped others solve that pain. So we can be trusted and that doesn't come down to product features and functions.

No, it doesn't.

It's about outcomes.

Yeah. And what have you seen work to build up that trust?

Well, that's another saying in terms of a problem shared is a problem halved. All you have to do is ask some very basic questions, because people are all too ready to unburden about the challenges and the issues they've got. And really listen, listen to what they're saying, and then be able to play that back to them. And they don't even realize that You're actually playing back what they've told you. But that then gives them like, oh, they, you understand our pain and you've given us a potential solution to resolve that pain. And I think that's super important. It goes without saying, and it's said all the time, that active listening, let your customer talk, let them share their pain, and then you can give them the solution. And that helps to build that trust. That's certainly been my experiences.

And I think that pre-sales role really helps people develop those skills for the sales role.

I couldn't agree more because what I've seen again with many different salespeople over the years is you have the salespeople that the customer wants to try and keep at arm's length because they're seen as snake oil salesmen type of person.

They don't see value.

Exactly. Exactly. 100% that, right? You've got to have value to be able to build that rapport.

And this is what salespeople don't get. They think it's because this pre-salesperson has the technical knowledge, but that's value.

Exactly.

What knowledge are you bringing? Other than the price. Exactly.

Exactly the case.

Yeah. And that's what, there's an interesting dynamic between typically between the salesperson and the presales and the salesperson thinking a presalesperson is treading on their turf. It's a collaborative sale. And if the salesperson can't add the value, they can at least manage the relationship and bring in the right people that do deliver the value for the, from the client perspective.

And what was that transition like for you personally going from pre-sales to sales?

It was fun.

It was?

Oh, it was. Yeah. Because it was at the time, it was a pretty low bar to get across.

Expectations were pretty low.

Yeah, exactly. So it wasn't like this is like a monumental shift. I keep expectations low. And, but it was great fun because on the presale side, you can become constrained because you've got a certain box. On the sales side, knock yourself out, go and try things. And so I really enjoyed that and meeting all the different types of personality and people. And just like riding a bike, when you start off, you're gonna fall off, you're gonna hurt yourself, you pick yourself back up. But again, success, it's gonna sound ridiculous, success is easy. When you're successful, everything's a breeze. What you actually learn most from is the failures.

Yeah.

And the learning from that, so long as you can incorporate that, means your successes should be more than the failures. And so I think learning from failure and not beating people up on failure, is a good thing. Now, if they keep repeating the same mistakes, that's a different story. But to encourage people to learn from the mistakes and then to see that growth is a very satisfying feeling.

How about learning the business sale of the sale? Not just the technical sale that you were really good and comfortable with, but how to get the paper through the mirage Or the gauntlet.

Absolutely. And honestly, with most of the accounts I've worked with throughout my career, I don't know that there was any one single path to success for that because it varied. Now, obviously, in the larger enterprises, there's a process and you have to follow that process and you have to rely on your— the people that you're working with to outline what that process is. in order to be able to feed that back in and adhere to that process. Certainly what I found is that, and again on the enterprise sales, quite often you may not even get access to the people that are going to be doing the final sign-off. So it's all about bringing all the stakeholders that you can and getting their buy-in and understanding because they all have different pain points, which is why the sales cycle can be longer, because you've got to herd those cats together. And so getting those folks on side and actually enabling them to have the right conversations internally can expedite the process because many clients say, well, we have to go to RFP, which you don't want to happen, obviously. Typically, and by working with the stakeholders and coming up with a compelling proposition means in many instances we didn't have to have an RFP process. They were able to single source it based on the justification. So I think it's— it'd be lovely if there was a single answer to it all, but I think it's very much understanding what That client's position is.

Yeah, because a lot of people don't understand that process at all. And as soon as procurement hears it, they think RFI, RFP, fill the file. Lots of meetings.

Oh yeah.

Let's muddy this water up.

Absolutely. And the experience, and again, this has been rather educational over the years, is I've worked with people that get very excited when they do receive an RFP and it's like, oh great, they know us, we must be doing something right.

And that's what Stephen's been up to.

But it's more than that because it's like, have you been speaking with this customer in the last few months? No. So what do you think's happened? They just, they know we're great. It's like, yeah, don't respond to that RFP unless there's a real disruption. that we can bring to bear because it's been written by someone else and they're giving, they're just giving like, here's the 4 other vendors you should go out and talk to, but here's all the key things we do that they can't do or et cetera.

Yeah. And have you found the sole source justification to work at some enterprises or?

Absolutely. Yeah. Even at places like the US Army for multimillion dollar deals.

Well, there it's common because the Army, not everybody, they don't buy Walmart stuff. They buy their Army stuff.

Yeah.

But like big companies, I don't see it that often.

Maybe it's I don't try it that often. I don't know.

Yeah, I'd say typically not had to do that many RFPs.

Yeah.

So they have been able to get enough business. It's all about deriving the business value and why they need to go with us, what it's going to mean for the organization and the savings it's going to bring. And that has seemed to work both in not just the sort of defense or government, but also in the private sector as well. Another way that we've been able to get around Or I've been able to get around those issues of the RFPs is almost like a land and expand mentality as well. Start small, get your beachhead, work it, and then the upsells come. And that's because you're an existing vendor. It doesn't always have to go out to RFP.

It's so easy. And what I'm finding is reps aren't creating that problem. Customers are creating that problem. They all want to do something big and it sounds exciting and they end up doing nothing most of the time.

100% paralysis by analysis. Yeah. All the time.

And the smart vendor goes, let's start a quick start. Let's get something in here. And then 6 months later, it's a million-dollar deal.

Absolutely. And that's worked, for example, for very large US utilities. Which can be an enormous sales cycle.

The regulated.

Yeah.

What would you say is your strongest selling characteristic?

Putting myself in the mind of the buyer. So although I'm representing the company, I'm always thinking I'm on the other side of the table, building that rapport and being able, and this is where the pre-sales background does help, being able to almost listen to what they're saying and say, So if you were to do X, Y, and Z and it delivered this, would that be a good outcome for you? And they're like, oh, we hadn't thought about that, even though they may have already inadvertently said it when they were sharing their pain points. So that listening, being adaptive to the situation, and being able to deliver solutions or outline solutions as part of that process. Really helps with the mindshare.

Because what you mentioned, putting yourself in their place, what, how would you characterize that? Is it empathy? Is it compassion? Is it—

All of the above. So there's certainly the empathy and compassion. I feel your pain. We all, because people want that pain to be shared because then it's less pain for them. They can share that burden.

That's the powerful thing, right? Yeah. Getting off your chest.

Yeah, absolutely. But also looking for ways to make them look smart inside the organization, because quite often some of the stakeholders that you may be talking to may own the problem, but not, may not necessarily have owned the budget.

Yeah.

And so giving them the ammunition to go back in and sell that internally to people that we may not ever see.

Yeah.

And, and to build that up, that's, that's certainly really important.

Yeah.

Because if you don't put yourself in their place, what are you naturally gonna talk about? The product, right? What you know.

Yeah.

But if you put yourself in their place, you become curious about what they're facing, what they're going through.

Yeah. And I think that's the perfect thing. It's the curiosity. The curiosity is key. The successful salespeople I've worked with or know have been curious. They've been curious to find out more. They're curious because at the end of the day, there's nothing more compelling than stories and stories drive everything and have done since the Persian times. So product features and functions, not so much, but the stories, And that those outcomes really, really resonate with people that are having the same kind of issues.

Yeah. And what have you seen the very best salespeople do?

They have been very, very good at not just managing that early stage of the sales cycle process, but also the, perhaps the harder part, which is getting the deal across the line and working through the process.

Yeah, because you're talking big deals in your space, right? 6-figure, 7-figure deals.

Yeah, absolutely. And how do they—

Sorry, how do you justify them?

So again, a lot of this can come from the land and expand. So essentially almost like a paid pilot proof of concept. But typically, if you do it for free, yeah, where's the stickiness?

Right.

It might take slightly longer to get a paid assessment or pilot, but there's skin in the game. And so you can work with that. So depending on whether you're a product vendor or an SI, maybe it's a slight thing, it's a slightly different Beast. Product vendors, typically people are gonna expect it for free unless it's a big long 90-day pilot program. But irrespective of whether it's free or paid, the outcomes from that exercise can help drive the business case and the real numbers that can be extrapolated across the organization to say, this is why you need to proceed with us. Without those numbers, it's all about, it's a nice to have.

Right. And what type of numbers are they looking for? Is it return on investment? Is it risk mitigation? Is it profit? Is it—

So typically, certainly in the spaces that I've worked in, it has been much more around, there's many pain points in the organization, hence why it's a larger deal size, takes slightly longer, but there is a risk management perspective. There's the, particularly with privacy regulations, for example, being in compliance with those, being better prepared for if or when there's a cyber breach incident and what type of data is out there in the domain. You want to lock that down before it gets out there.

Yeah.

Because then it's too late. There's also efficiency improvements within the organization to be able to do things quicker, more effectively with the most current information. And certainly almost the concept of monetization, it doesn't necessarily mean selling their data to other people, but again, those efficiency and productivity improvements, being able to get arms around all of that data, it can be intangible, but it contributes to that bottom line of the business.

Yeah. And how did you develop your skills about either negotiating or selling to executives? Because as a pre-salesperson, you show the product and you answer questions. It's safe.

Yeah. The honest answer is trial and error.

Which is the truth. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. But it must have been hard because that's— I went through it. It's really hard.

Yeah. Yeah. That's— that was the biggest adjustment and learning when to say no during that negotiation period because you can't always say yes.

Right. Because it will never end.

Yeah. And one of the common themes I've seen in my career is people said, well, let's offer a discount or a discount to get it closed by this date. And it's like, why? That's artificial.

Is that the issue?

Yeah. And it's never actually the issue. And once you've put that out on the table, it doesn't matter if that tight date has expired. They expect that same price.

Of course. No one forgets.

Yeah. So that whole trying to think of the negotiations on the sale are very different from the negotiations to get to that point of being in a position to negotiate the final deal. So you gotta be a bit of a chameleon in that regards.

And what do you typically compete against? Is it doing nothing? Is it delay? Is it do something in-house or some hokey thing?

Yeah, I'd say by far and away, irrespective of the industry I've been in, the biggest blocker is this is too difficult to even contemplate.

We're gonna So we won't.

Do nothing. Yeah, we're gonna do nothing. We're gonna kick it into the long grass and maybe revisit it some other time when we think we got more time. I'd say that is the number one, really is the number one. And again, with the big enterprise deals, they are complex both internally and externally. And so it can be very, very daunting. And part of our role is to try And make that less daunting and to be flexible and adaptive so that that outcome of doing nothing, to try and prevent it as much as possible.

And what do you get them focused on? Is it land and expand or is it a particular catastrophe, which I'm sure is in the news once a month, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Depending on the industry, the land and expand is a great thing because a lot of people are conservative by nature because they don't want to make a decision that's a career-ending decision for them. And so again, taking them on the journey from that landing point, demonstrating the value and growing means it de-risks it for them as well.

As needed.

Yeah. And again, it's people. You've got to be cognizant of the fact that these people will be, some of these people will be very nervous about making a big decision that could backfire on them from a career perspective. Other instances, if we can, it's great to get the big deal. Not always possible, but from being able to articulate outcomes from previous similar clients or get them talking with those clients about their experiences can sometimes lead us to get that larger sale without having to do the smaller bit. But I'd say that's the exception rather than the rule.

And where's the champion typically fit in the organization?

Wow.

Down in the hall at the very end?

Quite often. Yeah, quite often because particularly now, again, part of the adaptation is Since COVID how many people are in the office together at the same time? So being able to get all those people in a room and build that rapport in person is that much more challenging now. And so many things are remote, even when people are back in the office. So the champion may— is likely to be at a lower point in the organization to start with. But that's where We have to work with them to get the introduction to the more senior stakeholders and so on. And just to bring people into that big tent as we can, because the C-suite, super busy. Are they going to take a cold call? Well, maybe one or two will, but generally not. Right.

And you're talking about something that they don't understand, right?

Yeah.

And don't want to understand.

Absolutely.

Which is not a great combination during a cold call.

No. And all they're likely to do, even if they entertain it, is say, go and speak with Jim down the hall. He sorts this out for me. So it's all about getting the buy-in over that course of that duration of the cycle.

And I got to believe that that champion doesn't have the backing and a lot of times of the executives where this is not on the top priority list, like AI and big data and cloud or whatever else they're looking at that year.

Yeah.

It's kind of like something we should be worried about, but who's worried about it?

Exactly. That's absolutely the case. And Because it certainly was some of the industries I've worked in, it might be dealing with internal data. Well, that's perceived to be, that's boring, that doesn't help us. Well, it does, but that's the perception.

And we don't notice until it doesn't.

Absolutely. So yeah, so I also have experience of the cyber breach response space. And so that scare story, for want of a better term, is very compelling because to your point, organizations truly care when there's an incident because you've got your reputational damage, you've got the individuals as well that are impacted, and that can have real long-term ramifications. So as part of that sales cycle for why do something, being better prepared for that breach response becomes, I want to say compelling. Sometimes it is, and sometimes people say, yeah, well, it's not gonna happen to us.

Well, when I sold security, I always tried to future pace them. And I'd say, well, let's say you ignore this and this payload comes in and it blows up your, your middle tier. And your CEO found out that you passed on the protection because you unilaterally decided it was too expensive.

Yeah. Yeah.

That usually got people's attention, but you had to say it a lot softer than that.

Yeah. Probably not in front of others as well.

Right.

Because they think they're saving the company.

They're really lazy. They just don't want to do anything.

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And it's—

And how did you develop the sense of when an account should go big or go land and expand? Did you develop a sense for that?

Yeah, I'm a great believer on gut instinct, whether in personal or business life. I found, yes, sometimes it's wrong, but more often than not, it's right. And so just by having those conversations with a prospect, part of that skill set as a salesperson is being able to have that intuition about one, when's the right time to ask for the close, but also what type of close is it gonna be, small or big?

Yeah. Cool. Hey, Stephen, I really enjoyed this conversation. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Uh, I have a LinkedIn profile under Stephen Matthews, and, uh, so feel free to reach out to me there.

See, if you go along with what the prospect wants to do, you're just lost because they're lost, and it seems like the smart thing to do. They asked to do it. So you obey. And this is one of the areas in sales where having a strong backbone of knowing what to do— because these big deal traps rarely close with a big deal. Um, sometimes they do. I'm not saying they're all traps, but if you don't have A deadline, a real time that they have to do something. Whatever that compelling event is, there has to be that date. There has to be a big delta between what you can do and what the alternatives can do. And you have to have executive awareness of not only the problem but the desire to find a solution. Typically, these big deal traps don't have those 3 ingredients. And if you don't have those 3, it turns into an enormous time sink. Now, it's a great forecasting tool because, you know, it gives a lot of visibility and support internally. But that's also a big bullseye in that if you're forecasting a 7-figure deal and it comes in at 5 figures, people aren't that happy.

Or 4 figures.

And the problem also is once you tell management about a big deal, they push you into the trap. They don't warn you, they shove you into the trap because it's impossible to avoid. I'm not saying People are less intelligent to fall into it. I'm saying it's natural to fall into it. You have to have been aware of it. You have to have somebody like me telling you, hey, be careful here. Is this a real requirement with a deadline, money allocated to solve it? Are you— do you have a compelling advantage here that they appreciate? And They have visibility internally to do this already, or is it— You can get it, but you can get anything with time. The problem is this deal looks like it's a 90-day deal. I'm here to tell you it might be a year-and-a-half deal. Each deal's different. Each industry is a little different. But before you get into it— and here's the other part of the trap. The deeper you get into that particular deal, the less likely you are to pull yourself out of it. Because you're already invested. It's investment bias. If you're already 6 months into it, are you going to give up on that? You've put too much into it. It becomes even harder than to manage it from the beginning. It, it really is a trap, and I see it all the time, and it's really hard to avoid. But I'm here to kind of identify it for you. And if you want to practice one of those calls— let's say you think it is a trap, but you want to practice the call to push it to something that might be a little bit more manageable, to take the deal off the table. So that you can focus on making the deal economically bigger instead of just getting the product selection. Brevity Pitch would be the thing to do, wouldn't it? I'm telling you, you got to check it out. Just go to brevitypitch.com with your manager, schedule a demo. It's not expensive and it helps generate revenue. How? Because you get to practice, you get to play. In sales. You get to have a little bit of recess in sales and develop those conversational skills. The process stuff, you know, if you know it and you do it, great. The conversational stuff is where the magic happens. And to create magic, you have to be aware of what you're doing. And the way to do that is do it over and over and over again. Get a little feedback in a safe place where there's no judgment, where there's nobody laughing at you or looking at you or passing their observation on you. It's all you and it works. It's not a toy. It's really powerful, really mature. Check it out, brevitypitch.com. We'll see you next time.