HOW TO BECOME GREAT AT B2B SALES IN THE MOST DIFFICULT OF SITUATIONS

Do you think your sale is completely unique, different than every other sale? I used to think that too. And that's probably the most common thing that people raise to me when they talk about my course. Well, is there anybody in the course that sells into this market or that market or this location?

Yes.

And guess what? Sales There's a lot of commonality there. And usually reps start with what they sell. How's it work? How's it different than the competition? Well, that's part of it.

You're right.

But the bigger part of it is why are people buying it? In B2B, there are patterns. And I noticed this early in my career. Thank God. Because what I did is I just abstracted out the product, the territory, and focused on how do you win a complex sale. And guess what? What you're selling, it's a small part of it. Who you're selling to, yeah, it's a bigger part of it. But how they get it done, that's the hard part. Everybody gets all excited because you got one person at one company who really likes it.

Champion.

And you think that deal's going to go through? That's the start of a deal, but it's not the end. This is what we're going to be talking about today, because you would think if I told you about this guest who lives in the Baltics, and I've got several people in the course who live in the Baltics, and they say, Brian, I'm not sure this is going to work here. I go, are there people there? Yeah, of course. Then it's gonna work. People have these intuitions, beliefs about what will work and what won't. It's more what's going on in their head or their heart, what they're feeling. And it's those feelings that can sometimes get in our way, sometimes help us. Once you build up great instincts in sales, it takes a long time. They're helpful. But until you do, sometimes they get in the way. We become cautious, apprehensive, concerned about how we respond to something. And when we feel that, we tend to go with the safest approach, not the most effective, the safest, which is usually in the B2B sale, The worst. Why? Because the client doesn't really think about how long it's going to take to implement your product, or how long it's going to take to get it approved internally and purchased, or how much of resistance they're going to get to it. They're more optimistic sometimes than we are. And if they go it alone, It tends to die. And we call that no decision. Well, the decision's no, but our intuition tells us no decision sounds better than no, doesn't it? And in my training, I found that people will learn the how, how to do it, but not do it. And I asked them, well, why do you not believe it? No, no, I think You're right. I don't disagree with you, and I know what I need to do it. But I don't want to go into the rep zone. I don't want to sound like a rep, which really means I don't feel comfortable doing it—not intellectually, emotionally—and people say, "Oh, just weak." No, no, that's natural. I'm sure the first time you did a cold call. It didn't feel organic or natural or authentic. Certainly didn't to me. Did you sweat? Did you get nervous? Did you have a panic attack? Yeah, yeah, I did. But eventually you get used to it. Now here is where technology can help you. What if you could get used to all these advanced skills that you know if you do them You will sell more, but you don't do them, or you do them kind of. What if you could practice them until you become naturally good at it? It becomes part of you. It becomes part of your personality. That's what we've been working on at Brevity. Sure, you can still have a full sales conversation, and you want to do that When you have an important call, but you want to develop your skills. I'll tell you, recently I dealt with a CRO and they had an enormous 30, 40% of their deals didn't close at the end of the quarter. And I looked at their call recordings, talked to their reps, looked at those deals, and what I found was They were sending proposals to champions, not to leaders, not to decision-makers, economic buyers, but to champions. And I said, well, when you do that, you've got to understand that that champion has no purchasing authority, zero budget authority. So they have to sell it internally. And what I heard from the reps was, well, they want a proposal. Okay. Yeah, I get it.

They probably want a discount too. Do you give it to them?

I hope not. Well, of course you do, but you shouldn't. How do you get good at using that send me a proposal request into more discovery around how it gets approved? They don't know how it gets approved, but you can ask Now, what's your manager think of this? You start digging into the deal, and instead of sending a proposal, you start working through the approval process. And all of a sudden, we put that into brevity. We call it a drill or a trap. And I did it last weekend, and basically the AI keeps coming up with a reason To please send a proposal. It gets you comfortable with that request and understanding it's not a demand. It's really just a request. And how you handle that determines the likelihood of the deal closing. If you just give the proposal, way down, way, way, way down likelihood. And this is just one of them. So what we're doing is taking a lot of The hard points in the complex sale and turning them into drills or what we call traps so that reps in 5 minutes a day can get comfortable with this and get skilled in how to respond to it. Grab your manager, go to brevitypitch.com right now and schedule a demo. You will become so good at sales And I'm like, man, if I had this a few years ago, just think about how good you can be. Because some of us cave. That's, that's bad. But also when we fumble or choke or stutter or a little apprehensive, people sense it. And we end up doing things that don't help the deal. We fall into the trap. The trap is sprung and the deal is in jeopardy, and we may not even know it. brevitypitch.com. It's the future.

Here we go. Hey, Thomas, thank you for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Sure, sure, Brian. Well, first of all, thank you for having me here. It's my first podcast ever, so I'm very excited. It's gonna be an interesting half an hour. I tried to perhaps say what I learned in the past 10 years since I'm in sales. So yeah, I don't know, I started working in sales about 10 years ago and I think it's the best profession in the world and I'm very happy that I was able to find an activity which I really love at a very, very early age. And I was 24 when I started to work at sales. So yeah, I'm here. I'm here.

Now, how does a guy study, what is it, aerospace, right? Yeah. I thought you were gonna be an astronaut or something.

I know, I know. No, no, actually it was, I studied aeronautical engineering. Yeah. But I did like this. We have to do practice here in Lithuania. It was it's like maybe two months. You have to do it at the end of your studies. Cool. And I didn't like it, and I didn't like it. You know? No. And I tried to define what I want to do in life, and I made like this definition that I want to do a certain job which makes a financial impact on the company. This was the definition. I came up with and totally accidentally I ended up in sales, you know, and, you know, and I'm here.

Well, I mean, you probably had to be pretty smart to get that degree, right?

I don't think so. I don't think so.

You just skated through?

Yeah. I don't think I was like a very good student. I mean, my end thesis, I really aced it. It was very good. But the 4 years before, you know, it was like a lot of maths, engineering stuff and so on. I still like it. I think actually I'm using part of what I learned, you know, in the university in sales. And yeah, I think it helped me, you know, because time to time, you know, when some of my team, you know, they studied, you know, let's say, I don't know, philosophy, you know, something like in that range.

Yeah.

So sometimes I can see like people working in sales who have like certain degrees in like philosophy or, you know, they tend to, you know, speak a lot and And it's hard for them maybe, you know, to get their point across. But when I'm dealing like in the fields of engineering, you know, they're like those people a bit more concrete, you know. So maybe, I don't know, for me, maybe it's easier, you know.

And let's talk about that because they're not easy people to sell to or because at least in the US, they're kind of standoffish, kind of introverted, not the social butterflies of the company.

Yeah, especially, well, like I'm selling, you know, these technical services, you know, and so the people I deal with are typically project managers or purchasing managers. Typically it's a consensus-based buying decision.

Yeah.

So typically dealing with those guys, but they're not that technical, you know, I would say they're easy to talk to and I think I mean, I do not know the sales culture in the United States, but at least here, you know, in Europe, I think we're pretty laid back, you know, and time to time I'm having, you know, tough sales, you know, tough projects. But I think in general, it's a very friendly continent for salespeople.

I've got a bunch of people in my course in the Baltics and they tell me the exact opposite. Nobody talks to each other. Unless you're related, nobody communicates. Come on, guys. How do people get there?

Yeah, I mean, it's part of the job, I would say. I think, you know, I like this thought. I don't know who said it. I think it was Jeff Blunt or maybe Mike Weinberg. I don't remember. But some of them, like they said that you have to interrupt people and it's hard, you know, it's mentally difficult. but you have to do it. And I don't think that, you know, it's, uh, um, I just believe in it and we have to do it. But yeah, when you get to know, you know, those guys, I think it's, uh, they're typically friendly here in Europe.

Yeah.

I don't know, like maybe they're definitely dealing in different business area, you know. Yeah, you know what, I think with commodities, I think with commodities it's harder because, you know, it's harder to sell this additional value with commodities. But when you're selling something that is highly customizable, you know, you can customize, you can provide solutions. Yeah, I think then it's a little bit maybe different, you know, easier.

But the hard part of that is where do you start?

Yes, yes, yes, indeed.

Because they don't know what it is. Do you start at the problem, symptoms of the problem, something they already know?

Yeah, yeah. Well, I tried a lot of different sales approaches, you know, in these 10 years. What worked for me the best was a combination, in general combination, what I'm using it, but it's mostly based on this, the Challenger Sale Method. I like that one a lot. At first I remember I tried the SPIN Selling But I think that if, if you use it in a, I don't know, in a—

Yeah.

It's, it's what the difference between latent pain and active pain. Spin works great if there's active pain.

Yeah. And I think you have to know how to use spin because it could be like this manipulative and you can be very, you know, banal if you use it. It's like, all right, if I'm gonna sell this, if we're gonna solve your problem, is it gonna be better for you or not? Of course it's gonna be better, you know? So, so like what I do, I, I, I like actually talking about the actual problems, what my buyers are having. So for example, the, the biggest impact on the decision if they're gonna buy my services have the project managers. So I have to understand them. And I know what problems they have. Like typically when they work with subcontractors, their subcontractors are late, they're making defects with technical installation, they're behind schedules, they're hard to communicate with. So I know it.

Yeah.

So my only job is to really show, you know, how we are different than the others, how we are solving these problems. And obviously not only how we are solving, but how we are preventing them from happening, you know? And if I can show them this differentiation between us and my competitors, then I have an edge in this, in the sale.

Yeah. And did somebody teach you that, a manager or mentor, or was it trial and error?

Trial and error, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Like when I first started working sales, I didn't have like an actual mentor. So I was reading a lot of books and a lot of books, you know, and at least here in Lithuania, like we have no real sales books, you know, so I was reading—

It's not a big sales community.

Yeah. It's like we don't talk to each other, you know.

That's what I hear.

Yeah. And so I was like reading a lot from US-based authors, you know, and I read, I don't know, maybe like 40, 50 books, you know, about sales. And each time when I was reading a book, I was trying to find, you know, something new. If I caught something that I like, I tried to implement it in the sales process and little by little, you know, I started to see what is working, what is not. And this is how I learned, you know, this was my teachers, you know, and for me it was cool, you know, to write them, you know, short messages on LinkedIn and they replied to me and I was like, Jesus, like my superstars, you know, they're replying to me and it was pretty cool, you know.

And what drove you to do that? Was it the career, the money, the competition? What's that internal drive that you have?

Well, my drive was, I would say, not to get fired.

I think we all have that drive, right?

Yeah, that was my main drive at first, you know. But I remember when I started working in sales, you know, it was my—

At least you're honest.

Yeah, it was like my maybe second really, you know, like a serious job. And I remember like my wife was pregnant at that time.

She was not working.

I was the only one working, you know. So it was like a really strong motivation to do a good good, you know, job in sales. And, uh, like I mentioned, you know, I, I didn't have like a real mentor there. So I was just trying to, uh, learn as much as possible. And like, even my wife, she, I don't know, maybe like a month ago, she showed me a photograph when I'm with, with my kid. I'm trying to, um, get her to sleep. And I have like this sales book, like in front of me. And I'm like reading it, like with, with a marker, trying to mark what is important to me, you know? So it was a very beautiful journey, I would say, for me in sales. And, um, Yeah, this is how I learned it. Yeah.

How long before it felt like part of you that this is your bag, your thing, and you're gonna make a career out of it?

Well, at first I didn't even know, you know, what to do in sales. I didn't really like, you knew anything about it. So it took me some time. It took me some time. It was maybe third year. Of working in sales when I really understood that I'm here where I have to be, you know. So it took me some time.

Well, you had a lot of success, right? I mean—

I would say so. I would say so in the field which I was working at the time, I really had good success. And first I think I did it just because I really liked the job, but afterwards it comes, you know, all the credit goes to the team. which I work with. You know, I think when you are like, I remember this fundamental shift, you know, for me when I started to really manage, you know, people was that I was thinking that, okay, if I'm gonna sell, keep selling, if I'm gonna keep what I'm doing, I will sell maybe €20 million worth of services. So this is my cap, you know, this is like my limit. And for me it was so hard, you know, to start hiring people Because I was thinking like, oh, they will never do it as I do it. I know the market, I know the clients, it's way easier for me. But then I thought, okay, maybe I will hire someone who will be able to sell €10 million per year. And if I hire 4 people like that, I will still sell more, even though they will not do it as I do it. So that was, I think, the second part. this journey, you know, this career to really learn how to be a good sales director. So this was my second part, you know, and I'm still learning, you know, it's each day I'm learning.

Did you find that transition hard?

Very, very hard. The hardest part for me, you know, was really to start working with people, delegating, you know, things, prioritizing. Oh my God, you know, and in general, this Being responsible not for your own results, but for your, your people results. That's a very hard thing to do, you know.

And what was the hardest part? Was it communicating how to do it or finding people? Because I gotta imagine trying to find people that are good because you're selling something that's complex.

Yes, finding people was hard because I still up until now, I don't know, I don't have a template for a good sales rep. I don't have it.

No.

You know, I have sales reps, you know, I've worked with really professional guys who are like really professional and they're, you know, everything is, you know, clear for them. Everything is very structured and they're doing very well. I have worked with people who have a total mess on their desk, you know, who don't reply to their emails and they're superstars at the same time. So I have like no clue. what makes a good sales rep. So, but when I'm hiring people, I'm always looking for honesty. I'm looking for ability to learn. I'm looking for people who worked in this field, you know, at least for some time, because I know that, you know, that they like it at least. And then I put a lot of effort into their training. I believe in training a lot. You know, this worked for me and so far worked for the team. I believe in training a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. And what mistakes did you make in hiring? Did you?

Yeah. Um, because that seems to be the hiring. Yeah. Um, sometimes I had the feeling, you know, about certain people that they will not do well, you know, and that that they have different agendas, you know, that they're wanting to get— that they want to get this job only, you know, maybe for a very certain period, you know, but I needed, you know, to hire fast because I was, you know, behind the quota, let's say, you know.

Yeah.

And so these, you know, decisions when you need to hire people in a very short timeframe. I think this is the biggest mistakes like when I did, like it was during that time. So what I realized that you, that I always have to be hiring, always.

Yes.

So even though my team is full, I'm always dedicating part of my work, you know, to, you know, HR related things, you know, and then it really helps me a lot. See, so even now, you know, if I will have, you know, sales, some of my team members, you know, they want to go maybe to work for a different company. I have option B, option C, option D. So this is good. It's always good, you know, to have, you know, to be able to replace them. Yeah.

And what do you feel is your strongest sales characteristic?

My own?

Yeah.

Ah, I would say I really care about the clients. I really care to find the right client who wants, you know, help. This is my, I think, um, what's in my bones, you know, because, um, I do put, okay, for example, you know, I don't know if you have it. I think you have it, the saying like selling ice to Eskimos, I think.

Yeah. That's an American saying. Yeah. You don't work that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I don't believe in it, you know.

It's stupid. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't believe in it. You know, I really believe in finding the right client you know, and being honest and open and trying, you know, to, um, to really solve it. And, um, not in the sales process only, but also afterwards, making sure that the team who is delivering the service, you know, that they are doing, you know, their jobs properly. And if you're able to balance that, I think you will be, you will be successful.

I mean, before you answered me, I go, Thomas cares. It comes across that this is your thing.

Yeah, I really do. I really do. I care about the team. I care about the clients. I think that sales, you know, it's part of human nature, a very big part of human nature. And this is what we have been doing, you know, for thousands of years, you know, in one way or the other. And I really believe it's about helping each other. And then if you do it right with the right clients, you know, sometimes the clients are not right, you know, and sometimes you have to say no, you know, to a client. And but If in the end this brings you to the good outcome, you have to do it.

Yeah, because when you were a rep, you probably didn't have to do tons of deals. You had probably a handful of big accounts, I'm guessing.

Yes, yes, it's correct. It's correct.

So, and I think at least in the US, I think everybody's obsessed on volume, not volume of revenue, volume of activity.

Exactly. Yes.

Yes. And it turns into a distraction instead of a real accomplishment.

Yes, exactly. I like what I learned about sales, you know, I will tell you my whole philosophy in sales now. Like I have a formula for it. Like any company, any sales process, right? You can make it very detailed. Right? You can basically have, let's say, 100 steps if you wanted to, you know, and when you have it, I think especially for the new guys, you know, new people in sales, it's very hard to find those priorities, you know. So for me, I have, let's say, 3 priorities, you know, my formula of 3 to be successful in sales. I think first of all, You have to be active. You have to sell. Number 2 is that you have to do it professionally. And number 3, you have to be accurate. This means that you have to pursue the right clients. And so this is how I'm constantly checking myself and the team. If we are really active, if we're not, let's say, spending time on meetings with each other or—

Selling each other.

Exactly. You know, because sometimes like for me, internal meetings, it's like the worst. Like I don't even read the emails of my company and this is why I'm always getting in trouble. I still have like 400 unread emails, but so you have to be active, right? You have to really talk to the clients and to, you know, about this professionalism. I think that again, you have to be able to differentiate yourself, from the competitors. You have to know what each person in this buyer's side cares about and you have to do it professionally. And 3, you just have to find the right clients. You know, I think this 3rd part, this accuracy, it's super, super important. I've sometimes spent, you know, so much time pursuing clients which never ended up buying and not a match and you're trying to sell this ice and this chemo and then you see that, oh my God, I was in Germany for like 5 times. I spent, I don't know how many days on the deal and it just never got through.

That's it. I think people have lost that part 3 because they feel a big pipeline solves all problems.

Exactly.

If it doesn't close, it's just labor.

Yes, exactly. I have another definition, you know, like I want to share about the pipeline. Like at one point I needed to update this, update the pipeline and I did it like in such a way that I would be able to know how much I'm gonna sell, you know, in the future. And I asked this question, you know, how do I know that the client will buy? How can I know? And I started to analyze, you know, what did the clients do which actually bought from me and how was it different from the others? And I also have this definition now. I know the answer, Brian. I know it. The answer is this. You will, you know, if the client is gonna buy from you by his engagement into your sales process. This is the at least definition that I have. And I know, for example, that, you know, if the client— how to do it, let's say in my line of work, how do I know if the client is engaged? If he sends me the full documentation so I could really be able to estimate a good offer for him. If they are willing to be in a meeting with me when I will present them my offer, if they will agree to a site visit so I could actually see how the project, you know, is going, if their project managers and purchasing managers are in the same meeting, if they engage into my sales process, then I know it's gonna be fine, you know, then I know.

Yeah. I mean, in the US we call that a litmus test. Yeah, you put a little challenge in there for them.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right? Because certainly people either want to talk to you or have to.

Yeah, yeah.

So you want them to both want to, because that's when they'll talk to you, when they don't have to.

Yes.

So this pattern matching, how long did it take you to figure this out?

Was this something A lot, a lot. I don't know, in 5 years or so after working in sales, I got like this definition that, you know, that, um, yeah, I have to really check if they're interested, if they're engaged, you know, if they're doing what I'm asking them to do, you know, if they're dedicating their time. That's the main thing, you know. If they're dedicating, then they're gonna buy most likely.

Because most reps Are comfortable if they're just busy.

Yes, yes, exactly.

Exactly. Busy doesn't pay the bills, does it?

Exactly, exactly. That's right. That's right. And sometimes, you know, if I have time to time, you know, these potential projects, you know, and my sales reps, I always try to, you know, to put some reality, you know, into their minds. They're like, yeah, it's a very big, you know, project, you know, I think we're gonna get it. They're like, okay, okay, okay, you're saying that you're gonna get it. Did you do a site visit there? Like, no, they're saying that's not the time.

You don't need that. They're ready to buy.

A project for €10 million and they don't want to do a site visit. Yeah, most likely our competitors are already there.

Well, yeah, kind of the big deal trap we call it here where they sound like a customer, but they don't act. Like a customer.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And how have you taught them? Just through questions, asking them?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes, through questions. I remember also, like, in my— when I first started, you know, to manage the team, I remember some of my guys, they were traveling to Sweden or Finland or Norway. They come back, you know, they have like this meeting report. And I remember they wrote down, oh, it was a good meeting. We spoke about this, we discussed this and that. And each time I was reading the report and it was starting with this, it was a good meeting. And I remember I asked one of my team members to come. I said like, okay, you always think it was a good meeting. And I started asking like to ask questions. Okay. Have you met the full procurement team? I was like, no, no, I just met this one guy. Okay. All right. Um, do you have, do you have already a target project which would start in about 6 months? Like, no, no, no, they don't have, they don't have it now. Okay. Um, do you know how they're selecting their subcontractors? Did you have like a formal criteria or like? No, no, it's like very basic. And I was like, so was it a good meeting? Like, probably not, you know. We have to ask those tough questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, yeah, that's it because a good meeting to a wrap is somebody who meets with them.

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes we have this, you know, uh, great rapport. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, like, look, I do this mistake sometimes myself. I go to the meetings with the client. I have a very good time. We bond with each other, you know, we create connection. Then I come out and I was like, oh my God, I didn't ask this. I didn't ask that, you know? So yeah, yeah. We have to, I don't know, somehow proactively remember this time to time.

Yeah. And what's your weakest sales characteristic?

Trying to do too much at once. Yeah. Trying to do too much. Really. I'm, sometimes I have so, even now I have so many activities, so many things that I want to do that for me it's hard to finish them. Really, like for example, I will tell you, I want to really update our sales presentation, but really update it, you know, top to bottom. And I'm doing it for the past half a year and I did maybe 3 slides, but this is such an important job, you know, I really need to do it. And I just didn't do it up until now. And yeah, so doing too much at once, this is my weakest point, weakest point.

And you just recently, about a year ago, took on a pretty big role.

Yes, yes, I changed companies. I was working for 9 years for one company, but then I thought it's time to change a little bit, meet new people, and here I am selling technical insulation.

Now, was it hard? Because the other company, you had all this credibility and track record.

Yes, yes.

And you go to a new company and they're like, who's Thomas? Yes, indeed, indeed.

You know, like a lot of people never understood, you know, why I changed. It was like, oh, you had like this dream job, you know, you have it, you, you've done it, you know, you, everybody trusts you. Yeah, you arrived, that's it, you know, you don't have to prove anything now, you built it, you know, why the sudden change, you know. And I know it was a really, um, uh, but it was not a hard decision for me. I really wanted to change. I wanted to see, you know, meet other people. Now I have, I don't know, a couple of hundred new colleagues and I love it here. And, but at the same time, this year was very tough for me, you know, to learn.

Stressful.

To learn a lot. Also needed to change practically everyone in the sales team or, and it really, it was a very hard year. Hard year. I remember the first 3 months after maybe, I don't know, 4 hours each day, I was already done. I was already done, you know, to absorb that amount of information was so hard. Yeah.

And what do you wish you knew back in those first 3 years in sales that you know now?

It's a very good question. I think that first, Not to overcomplicate sales. Sales is not that complicated. Then the value of my time that I need to really protect it and dedicate it for sales-related activities. This is the second thing. And then my formula: activity, professionalism, and accuracy. Keep it simple. Keep it simple. Exactly. I think this was the—

And what was in the way? Was it emotional, how you felt internally that you wanted to be busy?

Yeah, the first 3 years I really did not know what I was doing that well, you know, and yeah, you know, nobody's guiding you. You have to do everything on your own. I was like the only one guy, one guy, you know, in that company. who was responsible for sales at first. And yeah, you just like don't have the, you know, anyone to guide you, I think.

Right.

So that's why I'm, I think at the moment, you know, I'm investing in the sales team that much. I'm really, you know, investing a lot of time, you know, to guide them, especially new people. I have a very good, I would say, onboarding program. And for me, it's very important that they feel comfortable, that they would know exactly what they're gonna learn and do in the first, 3 months. We're meeting first daily and afterwards, you know, I let them go to the world.

Hey, really appreciate your time. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

On LinkedIn. I'm available on LinkedIn and message me and we will talk more about sales.

I really enjoyed that interview. Now imagine you're on your own in a country with probably not a ton of salespeople or sales community. You have to figure it out. And let's face it, at the end of the day, we're all kind of alone in sales. It's us, the market, and trying to connect the two. And what he had was that will to work through Any internal apprehension, concerns, feelings. He had a family to support, and he had to figure it out. And instead of just doing the be busy all day and distract yourself with senseless activity, he had to figure it out. Came up with a system that works for him. He pattern-matched deals that closed compared to deals that didn't close. Now, this happens to work everywhere in every company. It's called working smarter. And this is what everyone talks about, working smarter, but nobody knows what it is. I'll tell you what's not working smarter is counting activities. Counting your nos because you think you're closer to a yes. Eh, not really. Feels better, but not really. It's a skill game, sales. If it was just labor, all those busy, busy people would be billionaires, wouldn't they? See, when you— they call it the complex sale because It happens to be complex and you have to figure this out. A lot of people think it's just more dials trying to find interest. Good luck finding interest today. Interest has a better chance of finding you than you have finding it. There's only a handful of people who do what you do and there's millions of people out there that Could be interested in it. The ability to activate latent pain, to connect with people, to help people through their journey, to put their interest ahead of our own, to have that compassion, to want to go through this journey with them. That's what customers are looking for. Much more than a pretty website or your 16 touches in 16 seconds. I think sales is coming at an inflection point right now. You know, we hit peak email probably 3 or 4 years ago, and every channel is saturated with pitches. But do people really want a pitch? I think the pitch— I'm not sure it's the right approach. It's binary, right? It's yes or no. And believe me, a lot of those yeses are really nos disguised as maybes or curiosities. In sales, it's about understanding the other person and approaching them the way they want to be approached. People Buy from people they know, like, and trust. It's the only thing that all these sales experts agree on. Yet their behavior shows no like, no trust, and they don't want to know them. Meaning the prospect does not want to know the salesperson. Isn't that what you go through when you open an email? Do I know them? People think it's show them that that you know them. They don't really care that you know them. They know you know their money. That's what they're thinking. You want them to know who you are. See, it's a very different thing because if you know somebody, you might listen to them. If you like them, you probably will listen to them. If you trust them, you'll give them a shot. You'll hear them out. You'll collaborate with them. And that's what real selling is. It's not pitching, handle objection, close. That's a transactional sell. In a know, like, and trust relationship, They want to talk with you, not just have to. When a customer ghosts you, they feel like they have to talk to you. There's no want. They wouldn't ghost you if they wanted to talk to you. They ghost you because they do not want to talk to you. That's the point. And they usually do not want to talk to you is because they have everything that they need. Not that they want, not that they'd like to. And this is why know, like, and trust is so critical, because if they want to talk with you, the likelihood of eventually either getting a deal with them or them helping you get another deal is pretty high. A lot of people are able to sell simply through their network, people Who know, like, and trust them. How many people in your market know, like, and trust you? Just asking. Just a curiosity on my part. What if it was 100 or 1,000 or tens of thousands? Wouldn't sales be easier?

Sure is.

But how do you do that? How do you do it in a systematic way, a fast way? An efficient and effective way. That's what Start the Conversation, Get the Meeting is about. This is how to prospect this year, not 5 years ago, not 10 years ago, not 30 years ago. What everyone's doing today is 25 years old, and it worked back then because a handful of people are doing it. Not millions of people doing it. People don't go to their inbox looking for new ideas. They don't. You'd be surprised. But everyone is starving to be heard, to connect with somebody who cares about them more than they care about the transaction. It's a forgotten element of sales. We've tried to make sales a science, and it's a part of the science. But if you look at anybody who's really good at sales, it's a lot more art. But you need the foundation of the science to build the art. If you look at— you can see the people on LinkedIn, the people who are good at cold calling. It's not the words that they're saying, it's the personality. Someone's playful, delightful, funny, enjoyable to speak to. Is that you? It takes a while to get there, trust me. Took me forever. And cold calling was, was never my go-to approach because it was just so error-prone. But it's one approach. There's many others, and everybody gets stuck on the channel and the, the immediate, I need a meeting. Well, you have to build a meeting because if they wanted a meeting with you, they would contact you. You want a meeting With them, you have to build that. Marketing can build it for you, or they used to be able to. I'm not sure what they do today. So if you want to become great at sales, go to b2brevenue.com and learn the science and practice the art. And that's what really brevity is about, is practicing the art of sales. Like in the proposal Use case that I opened the episode with, that anyone can then convert that back to the person. But a couple ingredients have to be there. They have to know how, which is the easy part. The how is the easy part. The doing it is the hard part. Like, if you ever had to ask somebody out on a date, is the asking the hard part, knowing what to say? Or is it the doing it? See, this is what people get wrong. People feel that internal angst about doing it, fear of rejection, fear of whatever. It doesn't feel good, and that's innate. We're born with that. It's there for survival. It's a core part of our Build up our nervous system. We have to learn how to manage it and work with it. So the how isn't that hard. It's the doing it that's hard. It's having enough confidence to do it without the overconfidence of sounding arrogant. It takes a lot of reps. And the best way to get those reps are when you're not under pressure, when you can play. It's recess for salespeople, but structured recess. So you learn that skill, you become comfortable and then proficient at it, and then really good at it. Now imagine if you were really good at it. And imagine if you were good at the other 10 or 100 other tough parts of the complex sale. You were comfortable with it. You liked it. Imagine going over that tipping point from fear to liking it. How can you do that any other way? Talking in the mirror?

Maybe.

Talking to your dog. I had a rep who talks to his dog. I used to talk to my cats. It's not much different. It gets the connection between the voice and the brain. It's the future of sales training. Grab your manager, go check it out. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening. If you see my stuff fly by on LinkedIn, give it a little like, a little comment, a little share. We'll see you next time.