HOW TO ENGAGE LIKE A MASTER B2B SELLER

One of the things I hear from reps all the time is, my sale is different, my market's different, my rascals are very different. And they're right to a certain extent. But after the last 10 years of training people and helping people and consulting people in all kinds of industries, yeah, sure, there's a lot of technology, both hardware, software, services, security, all of that. But there's also a lot of industrial clients I've had, and everyone kind of starts the conversation with how they're different. And it's like, okay, I get it. Yeah, every deal's a little different. Every person is a little different, but there's a similarity as well. And your deals, what we're looking for is similarities. We're looking for things that we can prevent. We know how it's gonna go. Because we've been through it so many times. If you've ever seen a movie more than once, you kind of, uh, you, you see, you sense it, right? You kind of, uh, know what's going to happen. That's what we really want to have in sales. We don't want it— not every deal is the identical movie every time, but the acts and the players and the sequence. And the outcome tend to be very similar if we pay attention. So today the guest is probably a little bit different than most of our guests, but the lessons are the same as far as determination, consistency, uh, being all about the client, serving them, starting conversations with them. And this guy's got a great opener. So you got to listen through it. So don't just hear it and say, well, that's not what I sell, so it doesn't apply. Well, believe me, when you teach people who pay for the course themselves, they are in pain. They're in active pain. They've tried a bunch of stuff. They try all the free stuff first, then they come to the course. And because it's a little bit of work— Okay, I get it. Let's get into this interview. I think you're really going to enjoy it.

Hey.

Hey, David.

Thanks for joining us today.

Where are you getting started? Give us a little background on yourself.

Well, I've been in the power tool sort of industry for about 26 years now. Literally, I'm national sales manager for a power tool accessory company, sort of a startup business. And I've been here about 4. So we— I manage the industrial channel for us, everything outside of home centers, basically. So we're, like I said, startup. About 50% of the stuff we have is patented, and we do great in this market. Background, I've been with Depot back in the day when they were early on and worked for several power tool companies like Porter-Cable, worked for GE for a stint and a few years there. And I've basically stayed in this— Stanley Bostich for a while. Basically stayed in this power tool industry for, uh, quite some time. Started as a, you know, ground-level retail guy carrying a bag, and, uh, you know, 25, 26 years later, I'm here now.

But what keeps you in that industry?

You know, the people, you know, uh, the customers. Not only the customers, but the colleagues and our competitors. You know, everybody is, uh, you know, a sort of a friendly, uh, family-type atmosphere regardless of What, what name is on your shirt, you know? So whether it's a customer base or whether it's a competitor, we don't go very far. We just sometimes change shirts.

Yeah.

So it's a really family atmosphere and I enjoy it. The customer base is the market and construction market, essentially. It never seems to teeter off. It's always busy and fast-paced, and we have a great time with it.

And now, who do you sell to? Who's your customer?

My customers would be primarily, you know, I sell to some wholesalers like Orgill, Grainger, House-Hasson, Zorro, ABC Supply, all the way down to like mom-and-pops, anything related to Ace Hardware, Do It Best, True Value, McCoy's in Texas, City Electric Supply. So we pop over into electrical division, State Electric, Plumbing, Ferguson, we sell to Ferguson, we sell to Ram Tool, Whitecap, anybody and everybody in the industry. I sell outside of Lowe's and Menards. We do not sell Depot with our company, but Lowe's is our partner. They're our biggest customer.

Cool.

And what's the hardest part of your job?

Hmm, the hardest part is working within an 8 or 10 hour day. I got to be honest with you, you know, like I mentioned, You know, I'm sort of a traveler, and, uh, you know, we're a startup on my side. We started this almost 4 years ago over on my channel. And, um, you know, like in 2020, I didn't have the benefit of stopping, you know. So I, I traveled 334 hotel nights in 2020 to make sure we didn't lose ground.

Wow.

So a little bit of a hit to the family life, you know, for us, because I was home a month essentially. But I, uh, you know, people were worried and scared about COVID and stuff, I didn't have that benefit. We could stop and then it probably would've never got on, but doing that paid dividends and then some, because this year it is like the floodgates opened.

Great. How did you handle a year like that? That's kind of—

I had one— I joke because I had 1,000 meals on the road. You know, you look at 3 meals a day at 334 days, so People worry about the COVID-19 weight. I think it was maybe COVID-91 for me, but, uh, but it was all those meals on the road. And, and, you know, like gyms were shut down and, you know, like you couldn't even go anywhere. They, they had them all blocked off. So it was a challenging year. I lived, uh, you know, out of my truck and, you know, I was still seeing customers when my competitors were not, they were sitting at home and that's what really mattered. And I had a couple of guys that worked for me that We didn't wanna get furloughed. We wanted to stay put and drive forward. And we decided we would do this off the back of tailgates with masks and gloves and whatever it needed, 6 feet away, and kept plugging our products. And we would go and Chick-fil-A benefited dramatically from us 'cause we were bringing customers, you know, like biscuits and chicken biscuits or whatever, and they were loving it. So they remembered us when we came out of this.

So it sounds like that business is very much a person-to-person type business.

For sure. Uh, you know, we live by that. Uh, I call it belly-to-belly selling. So, uh, and, and, you know, you can, you can make all the automation you want in the world. People buy from people, period, end of discussion. And with us, we have patents. So like, you can— I can set my hole saw kit beside another person's hole saw kit like Lennox or the, you know, maybe a bigger name and brand at the time, uh, but mine have patents on it that literally have to be shown. So that is why I have to get out there and physically put it in your hand and let you see it.

Yeah. And what makes a great rep in this space? Is it just that, that grind, that they're doing more?

I don't, I don't think it's necessarily the grind. It's, it's a lot of an attitude, you know, uh, And, and, uh, you know, one thing about it, every— I don't know, there's been many people that I've hired over the years. The first thing I tell them is, look, you know, pick up— I mean, I, I feel like I'm a pretty good guy that's pretty good salesman, but don't, don't do it like I do it. I hate cookie cutter. So does everybody. Get your sales pitch, find, talk to, you know, see 3 people do it and literally develop your own. There, in a lot of cases nowadays, people have lost the art of studying for a job. When I get a new product category, I study it. I figure out how I'm gonna pitch it. I have a 15-second and a 3-minute elevator pitch essentially. And I stress that to my people because you don't know if you're— a lot of this is cold calling with us, you know, because we don't know our brand. I throw my name out there and my card and they're like, okay, they might know who I am, they might not know the card. So a lot of times, so I've got, I don't know if I have a little bit of time or a lot of time, so I gotta get their attention fast. And hope I can, uh, to live to fight that 3-minute deal.

So, and I gotta believe that, you know, people kind of get emotionally attached to a brand and their tools.

Very proud. This— the— these folks are so proud. So in a power tool capacity, we don't— we don't pick a brand. I have all of them, actually. So if you— if I have to do a demo or something, I'll have a DeWalt, I'll have a Milwaukee, I'll have a Metabo HPT, I'll have fine or whatever, because these people, they, they get attached to the tool. So if they see an accessory on a tool, they more focus on the tool. Because, and I equate it to like the grocery store for— and it's a guy-dominated industry. It's not the way it is 100% now because we see more and more females and they're very successful in that. And I absolutely love female sales reps for me because they— the good old boy system is taken out. You know, they— when they're— when they use their skill sets and learn, and they're very more detailed about knowledge and learning the product. They're very good. I love it. I mean, I've seen everything change in 20 years, but yeah, they, you know, a lot of times they're loyal to the brand and it really starts at the tool more so than the accessory.

Yeah.

So, but there's no money in the tool. So, and that all the dealers will tell you, we lose our tail, you know, in the tool. That's, that's where home centers really capitalize because, uh, there's only 3 battery manufacturers in the world. that sell, you know, that goes on those tool platforms. And everything's so cordless now, and only one of those, uh, battery companies make a tool. Yeah, and it's Panasonic. So that's the only one that makes the tool and a battery.

And when you first got into sales, was it natural for you or was it an adjustment?

Well, it was early on in life, I'll tell you. Uh, so, you know, with me it was— I went to school selling cinnamon toothpicks is how it all started. So I would go to the grocery store with mom and And we would take aluminum foil and I'd soak cinnamon toothpicks in, uh, in aluminum foil overnight, and I'd go sell them for 5 for a quarter, you know. So like, that was, uh, early in life. I don't know how old, maybe 7 or 8. And then I graduated to things like Blow Pops and, uh, you know, uh, just went from there to other, other things over my life. So I kind of felt like this is where I was led early on.

Yeah. And what do you like about it?

I love the fact that, uh, that, you know, the people that I deal with, uh, you know, I have, I have to believe in the product, uh, regardless. I, you know, I don't necessarily go by price point, you know, and I, I like to have a premium, uh, brand that I sell or something to have some kind of a patentability because, you know, I've, I've been lucky enough to work for some great companies, um, and, uh, with some great brands, some, uh, better than others, you know, but I I benefit from it, but I really love to get out and, you know, meeting folks and interaction with the social piece of people and helping solve problems. I mean, because that's at the end of the day, if I can make something safer, quicker, better, easier, faster, that's productivity savings that goes right back to Six Sigma GE that I learned years ago.

Yeah. And I'm sure you've seen a lot of different salespeople. What do you think makes the difference between the best and the good?

That's a great question. You know, I think the more personal they make it. So even though folks know this, when— I mean, I will go in, I'm letting my secret out here, but— and I'm sure a million other people in the world do this. But when I go in and I'm sitting down in a meeting, the last thing I really want to talk about is me. I'm looking around at their pictures. I'm looking around to see if they're hunters. to see if, you know, they caught a fish, to see if they're golfing, the photos. So you, you literally— and the ones that sit down and can analyze in a matter of seconds, uh, and get them off on something other than work, uh, that seems to be the ones that make the biggest difference. The ones that come in and, and read from a catalog are the worst, and I've seen that too many times, uh, and it just, to me, I It's not exciting. And somebody that can, that can gunsling, so to speak, uh, and have the active gab, uh, socialize quickly and, and make them feel confident, uh, in the conversation— those are the best.

And are you good at that? You good at reading people?

I am. I feel like I'm on my expert level in the read, yes. So I can tell when they're— when I need to quit talking, for sure.

Yeah. And a lot of people can talk sports, can talk hunting and stuff. And what I found is if you can just ask questions, you don't have to be a sports person, right?

Yeah, absolutely. I, I know a little bit about a lot. I really— I don't hunt. I don't hunt. I keep up with current events. I might put in the morning, I'll pick up the phone and see what's going on in the world. Because some, you know, if we're about to fight with Ukraine and I'm going and talk and I know Maybe I'm dealing with a veteran. I literally, you know, I ask their opinion on what they think, what's going on, and should we be involved. And literally, I will sometimes— I know this is stupid, and I had a boss tell me one time that, you know, why don't you ask for the order when you're there? And I said, you know why? And he was with me the next day. Because they're going to call me tomorrow. And they sure enough called me tomorrow and say, you know, you left and we needed stuff. Do you mind getting this, this, and this? Sure, no problem. And he was just like amazed. But I don't actually go in and I don't want the order today. I want the order 10 years from today. So it's a marathon, not necessarily a race, I guess I'd say.

Yeah. And like the Ukraine thing, you weren't in the surface, right?

No, sir. No, sir.

Yeah.

So, and you probably don't know much about the Ukraine, right?

I don't. Well, actually, believe it or not, I have a little bit of knowledge on that. And, uh, this goes back to my single Dave years when I was dating, but I actually decided, okay, well, I'm not finding the right lady here. And I do now, she's a great woman. And I said, I'm not finding the right— the lady I want. So I went across the water, and back when Trump and Hillary Clinton were not— were trying to see who was going to become the, the person. And, uh, believe it or not, I connected with some lady from the Ukraine who worked for the State Department, and she educated me on a lot about why there's you know, 20 women to every guy there because there was a war before and killed all the males. So, uh, that's why there's such a vast amount. So I can tell that a little. See, that's what I'm saying though, like I have a, I have a little story, you know, to connect me. It's because it's a personal thing. It's the product, but I'm connecting me with the product. And, uh, and I try to use that, um, that with things. And so yeah, I have a little bit. And but it was funny, I was talking to a guy, uh, 2 weeks ago when I was in Vegas about this Ukraine thing. Well, it turns out he was a tank commander, a retired military tank commander. And I'm like, what do you think? Of course, there's a lot of cussing that he used with it, but it's exactly— if you put— if you looked up a picture of a tank commander, that's the guy, right? That's the guy you're expecting. He goes, you don't fight Russians with the 82nd, uh, Airborne Division or whatever. He goes, those people use heavy artillery. You've got to drive a tank right up their throat. And I'm like, wow, you know, I'm like this. I learned there. So it's pretty interesting.

So you're a naturally curious guy?

Oh yes, I, uh, that would say definitely, you know. I want to know why something works. So something's new out there, you know, that's in my competitor line, I'll grab it and try it. So I'm, I'm hands-on. I gotta see how we compare, that kind of thing, or if theirs is better than mine. In some cases, I'll, I will tell us, well, you know, I I like this feature for this, but, you know, I still think mine's better or something like that. So I'm full disclosure.

Yeah. And what do you say to people who say that this, the small talk or the kind of the rapport building is a waste of time?

Depends on the— I will tell you without question, I feel like for the most part it depends on where you're selling. I'm a Southerner. You probably figured that out. I'm from Georgia. You know, I can't hide it, man. You know, But, uh, but I travel all over. So when I'm in the, uh, Northeast, for instance, I might, um, I might get more to it because sometimes they are time sensitive. Um, and, and I just know the market and I could tell if they're not interested in something, I switch to something else. So I do think as a whole, it's very important to, to build the bond, to have some kind of connection with them personally. Because, you know, like I say, when I asked you how your kids are doing and if their life is feeling better from COVID I mean it. I'm not joking about that. It's just maybe some people are not as authentic and genuine about it, but I truly do because, uh, at the end of the day, it's about people, not products.

And, and that's it, because they either want to talk to you or have to talk to you.

Correct. You know, and everybody used to laugh because, you know, my nickname is Sunshine, so that I'm, you know, I'm pretty direct about— I'm pretty direct. I'm pretty direct about stuff now. My kids will say, oh my God, what is wrong with them? They think you're like Jerry.

Yeah, can you up it to 365 days, Dad?

So we have— we laugh about it, but, but, uh, you know, I, you know, lost my train of thought for just a second. I apologize, Brian. But, you know, the fact of it is, is, uh, you know, I, I think attitude, you know, with that means everything. And building that bond with them and all that, that's so important to me.

Yeah, because I think too many salespeople are either stiff or they're the catalog. They think their job is to—

I give the catalog away first thing, just so you know. I mean, I don't even touch it. And then I— because that puts it— I mean, putting something in their hands. And by the way, uh, we've got 29 different market segments. I started with 117 line items, now I bust over 700. So We are in hypergrowth mode over the last 3 and a half, 4 years that I've been here. So I try and I teach, uh, even agencies. I have manufacturers reps that work with us. I said, don't overwhelm them. Don't take everything in the bag in there. You're going to lose them. Grab, grab a couple of things and talk about it. If they're interested and you want to see more, ask them, go get it. You know, but, and same thing for a catalog with me. I might bring one thing in a catalog now and, uh, and I work off my phone. So I have videos on my phone to show these patents and grab their attention fast. So, uh, I agree with you wholeheartedly. So, uh, catalog salesmen are— uh, learn the product before you go in there. I think once people get out of college or get out of high school or whatever they do, because college don't make you smart. Uh, I did finish college, but it's, uh, at University of North Carolina at Charlotte. But the fact of it is, I've seen people that don't have any college and they're outstanding. So it matters about the people and how well they teach themselves.

And let's say you're meeting somebody new for the first time. What's going through your head? Do you have a particular sequence to get them warmed up?

Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't say it's something I do every time, but generally sometimes I, you know, like yesterday, I'll just give you an example. Yesterday I'm outside The guys were outside talking to a customer in Douglasville, Georgia, and I had a couple of end users that, that were there. And they walked by us, young kid and his dad maybe, and they walked by us a little bit and they were looking. They saw the trucks, they saw our shirts and our products we have. And then they came back by and they were, you know, semi-curious. So I stepped away from the owner of this place and all this, and I said, excuse me, you know, I said, how are you guys doing today? Good. So you familiar with us? And They go, yeah, we've seen it, you know, whatever. And I said, you know, so I put the focus on them. They were a contractor. I said, you know, what kind of products do y'all use? That— what do you— what is, uh, something you're picking up like every hour on the hour? So, and he said, he told me, I said, well, I, I went and, uh, got products and showed it to them. And I said, you know, do you mind giving me some feedback? Here's my card. I want you to use it. Here's why this is better. And they were loving it. So like yesterday, I literally used their curiosity themselves. To open that conversation. And, and it— and I walked away from a decision maker to help this person, right? I gave it away. I hit the— the end user didn't make anything. The guy literally said to me, you just happened to touch on my— one of my biggest customers here, and I will take 100% of your products. Let's figure out how we get it in here because you took the time with them when I stood here and didn't say hello to them. So yeah.

What I liked about it is you were asking about them Versus talking about you and your product?

Yeah, I— it's, uh, you know, if you let people— you know, they always, always think is having to be a good listener. Hearing me, you probably think this guy don't listen at all because I talk, uh, a lot. But believe it or not, I do let them tell me. Because if, if I ask a question, lead it, you know, hey, what are you guys doing? They, they love to tell me about what they're doing in their life, you know, or what they're, um their hardest, uh, what we could do better maybe. Hey, you guys would come up with this, you know. We get a lot of good feedback and I pass it along.

Yeah.

And are you a big user of the product yourself? Do you have any time?

No, I, uh, I— here's the— here's my, uh, dirty secret. I, uh, I never use it. I sell it, you know. So, and I think that might be a lot of the guys like me. Uh, I do, okay, if I need to do something, of course I can. Yeah, and but usually I have my pitch and I've learned from these professionals, so I, you know, sometimes I go and do end-user calls because if I'm not familiar with the product, I can't— it's not like I'm going to go in and tell them how to do this. I want them to give me feedback on this. So that's really what I focus on, but I teach myself and I, you know, I do see some product. It takes some of that to be successful when you're trying to build on a brand and build a brand up. So I give it to them. I said, do you mind? Here's my card. You know, if you could give me some feedback or give me a buzz call, or if I can reach out to you. That's how I do it, because I let a pro tell me.

Yeah. And when you were growing up as a salesperson, what were some of the epiphanies where you'd said, oh, then you got your groove?

Either— Oh yeah, there were so many. Um, You know, I used to walk in, uh, with, uh, you know, there over the years there's been a ton of those. I wish— that's a great question. Um, you know, one, when I quit, when I started listening, I can tell you, uh, when I went in and, uh, you know, and I see— and I happen to be, uh, this is when I got a job and I didn't have a degree back then, but the company I was— Porter Cable— and I was working for, they, they had a degree requirement. So long story, but The guy went in, I'm sitting in the president's office because I was referred by some vice president for this role, right? And I look at the set and I see a newspaper article— this is 25 years ago— that said, had a big red N in writing on the wall. And the president of this company, Jack Garlock, was sitting on the, behind the desk on the phone, and he said, wait a minute. And I, he got off the phone, I said, is that a Nebraska N? And he said, yes, it is. Why? And he said, uh, I said, well, I— he goes, are you a Nebraska fan? And I am. I said, oh yes, sir. He asked me 2 Nebraska questions and he picks up the phone with the director of human resources, said, I want you to process this guy's paperwork today.

Okay.

Because I connected that, you know? So the epiphany was, you know, learning to look around a room and to process fast because that's a win. And, you know, things like that. Uh, and everything I do today that I might not even realize I do. I've— I have learned it through trial and error, you know, and, and, and I, I wish I could write a book and say, here are 10 things that's going to get that there. But so many other, uh, dynamics come into play with it, whether it's personality, whether it's, uh, your confidence, you know, that confidence is a big part of, of, uh, in my opinion, about how wins work. Um, you know, I, I'm confident in our products. Does that mean they don't fail? No, they do fail. But overall, you know, it's, it's commodity, it's a commodity-driven product. So, but going back to like Fein, when I worked through those days, they had great products. They were expensive, so they weren't for everyone. So you had to really pick and choose your customer. And, and one thing about it is you had to— you, you never want to judge it. It's like, okay, well, you might not be able to afford this Multimaster, but you should buy this Bosch one, it's cheaper. I never approached it like that. I said, what do you want? Let me size you up. What, what, what, uh, what, what kind of tool are you looking for? Are you looking for the, you know, the BMW level of something, or you, you want a Ford but you like the accessory? Because in tools versus accessories, the right accessory can make that tool better.

Yeah.

So, and that's the— at the end of the day, I've learned from Fein, and they taught me well, uh, that, that, that accessory matters. So coming here where it's just accessory-driven company, that's what's given me, I feel like, an advantage and confidence in how we approach things.

And did you have that confidence when you started in sales, or were you— was it something you—

I think it's been— I think, I think I've, I think I've developed it over the years of success, you know. Uh, if, if you pack, if you pack 20, say 25 years worth of doing this in, uh, and I, I'm gonna say I have had Uh, 18-up years, you know, and just, just looking back over the career real quick and thinking, does— so you have to deal with the peaks and the valleys, you know, and, uh, sometimes you learn more in a bad year than you ever could in a good one.

Sure do.

So that learn— that is the test of time. And I, and I'll, I'll give this guy credit, Dave Rollinger. One time, and I was having a couple of bad years, and he got in the car with me. I thought he was coming to let me go. It wasn't. He actually came and he goes, I want you to do one thing for me. I'm like, yes, sir. He goes, whatever, if you're doing, if whatever you're doing, I want you to do the exact opposite. So if you say go right, I want you to go left. This guy's retired now, but I sit and think about him often because when I'm having a string of zeros, I think of that. That pulled me out of the rut. It didn't give me any grandiose success, but it got me out of whatever rut was at the time. So, uh, and I come right back with a phenomenal year. I don't know if he knew what he was doing or just happened to say, do something different.

Well, it makes you start to think at least.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it's—

Because we assume that we're doing the best we can. But if you say, well, sir, why don't we do just the opposite?

Yeah, he, he was— I feel like that was probably some of the best advice I've ever gotten. Yeah, I do. Looking back on it.

What was the best advice you've ever given another salesperson?

Good question too. Wow, that's tough. I would say, well, you know, I would say the best advice I ever gave one was this isn't for them. You know, I can— one stands out for them. And I know that sounds bad, but they just did not have the right mindset. They would, they were, uh, when you're told no, and I used, you get more nos in this business than you do yeses for the most part. And their mindset wasn't strong enough to deal with the rejection. So, uh, they were, it was just not a good situation. And, um, and, and you know what, I went on, I said, look, I'm not letting, I'm not, we're not, I'm not firing you. I'm not, I want you to, to look and find out what you do. And we, they stayed on board with me for probably another 3 or 4 months. And I told them, we'll work with you and I'll help you what you want to do. They ended up getting into a product manager role. And flourished. So, uh, it's just, you know, in product management, that's X's and O's and, you know, filling in gray area and doing all that. I've done that role before too, which is a tough role. It's just different. You're not getting constantly, uh, barraged with things. Your, your, your challenges are different, you know. And, uh, and, but I, I, I did tell them that was— I didn't think sales was their thing.

And Let's go back to the reading of people. Is there something that you practice or think about on the ride there that—

Oh yeah, windshield time is— I try—

It gives us a lot of time to practice selling, doesn't it?

Yeah, so I can— I try to connect with them. I research them. So I'll go, I'll use LinkedIn, I'll use any resources I can find. I'll see who's connected with them. So I've got, I've got about 7 7,000 LinkedIn connections myself. So I find out who's connected with them. So I want to— I might, if it's a big enough opportunity, I might say, hey, can, can you give me some feedback on how— what, you know, should I be direct? Am I closing? Are they going to give me time? What, you know, should I keep it to 3 things? So it takes some work. Everything is work. I mean, you know, I wish I was one of those guys that's just super lucky and everything came natural, but You have to plan, I mean, with this and be organized because if you're not organized, that's going to come through terribly at some point and it'll be guaranteed the wrong time.

Because what that does is it allows you to bridge your brand to them instead of them required to bridge to you.

Yeah. First impressions are so important. It's not even funny. If I give off the wrong first impression, I tell a bad joke or I, you know, insulting or some way. And I'm gonna tell you, I say this from experience, you literally will never overcome it. So, you know, but then again, I've been in places and I sell these customers to this day that took me 3 years to sell them. And they asked me nicely several times not to come back and I'm back in there in a month. It's gotta be a little bit of persistence because it's true. There's 7 to 10 sales calls before you close an average account. I do live— I do feel like that's, that's true. I, I do the closes a little quicker here because of the product category and the patents. But, you know, I had them say, Dave, if you don't go, you're gonna— we're gonna call the police, uh, you know, literally on me. I says, look, there's no reason to do that. I just want to make sure you're— that you're taken care of. Well, that guy ended up being a $100,000 customer. They, they talked to me, we, we worked through it, and they're good friends of mine to this day.

And how did you develop that thick skin of, you know, because clearly there's a lot of nos and rejections and wasted time.

And I don't take it personal, you know, uh, that— so I just don't make it personal. I just, I just kind of, uh, you know, I— and then, and it's funny, but when I— when you look at things 180 degrees from where you got told no, once you, once you're in there, you make it all personal. So that's my thing is I don't take it personal on the rejection, but once I'm there, I turn everything personal. How are the family? How's the kids? You know, has your wife thrown you out yet for, for working late? Whatever it is that, that I get in there, I try to get in, uh, their mind, uh, a little bit to a certain extent. And, but I'm, I'm a genuine— I genuinely care about people. So, and I think that that puts them at ease with that. So people can sense that. I feel you're right. I feel that's a God-given talent for me, uh, is I'm able to put people at ease right off the bat with things because, you know, I'm, I'm straight to the point. I'm, I'm, I'm good at my sales pitch. I know what I'm talking about. And, and I never, ever, ever, ever bash the competition, ever. I literally— if somebody says, well, I like Linux, and I'm— I will literally say Well, let me tell you something. Lennox has— if I— if they didn't pioneer the way for me, I wouldn't even be talking to you. But it's like this, if we didn't follow through with what new products would be, or, you know, try these new products and stuff, we would still be walking and not riding in cars, you know. So, and, and when you put it in those terms, they're like, wow. And when I talk about a better product like Fein, I was like, you know, yeah, what kind of truck you driving? And they'll be like, well, I drive a Chevy or whatever. It's like, okay, well, I didn't, I didn't think you were out there driving some beat-up Kia truck or something, or whatnot, the slam Kia. But it's just, you got to put it in there. What do you want to spend with this? If you're worried about $50, maybe, you know, this isn't the right one, you know, and just kind of size them up.

Cool.

Hey, really appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

I'm on LinkedIn. So, you're welcome to go to LinkedIn and find me, Dave McClure, Spider Products. We are on Instagram at spiderproducts.com, based out of Kansas City, Missouri, power tool accessory company.

It was like I was having this conversation with a first-time sales leader just yesterday. And he was asking, what advice, what mistakes do they typically make that first year? I go, the key thing is that everyone's playing the same game, but everyone plays it a little different. The differences are good. They're not bad. The key thing that you should do when you're coaching a salesperson is making sure they understand the game they're playing. All the players, the process, the step-by-steps, the prevention. All of that stuff is the game. That's the movie, like I said in the intro. But how it goes and where you are and what you do and how you play the game, it's up to you. And that's why in the course, it's not selling my way. It's, this is the game. You can define the game. You can change it if you think it's different. But how you play it is up to you. No one's trying to change anybody's personality. If you're a talker, whatever it is, whatever style you're comfortable with, but you have to know the game you're playing. If you've ever picked up a video game or a board game, you have to first learn, you know, so what are the rules here? What's the objective? You know what it is in sales. The objective is to get the money, to get the order, right? And if it's the wrong person, it's not going to happen. So you're better off finding out that out early before you invest all your time, your only real resource, in finding out how to win that game. Now, David obviously has figured out how to win that game. And what a work ethic, huh? I mean, because it's one thing if you work, you know, well, a ton, you know, 60, 70 hours a week, but it's from your house. Kind of what I do. But it's a whole nother thing to do it on the road because, you know, when you're on the road, your whole nervous system is like constantly agitated because there's not that comfort of, you know, you knowing where everything is, waking up and, you know, being in your house, knowing what's in the fridge, knowing where the restaurants to go. When you're going town to town, That's really— it kind of adds a level of stress to it. So I congratulate him on that. Now, are you going to win your game? Are you going to even know the game you're playing? This is where I really start with a lot of people because a lot of people treat it like, you know, a treasure hunt instead of building a treasure map. A treasure hunt is you go from clue to clue You're reacting to the scenarios that you're faced with. A treasure hunt is, or a treasure map is, you look at your map, you go, I'm here, I want to get to there. This is one route. Here's another route. Here are the obstacles. How do I get there in the most effective way for me? That's what winning the complex sale is all about. If that's what you Are your deals getting stuck? Are they stalling? Are you getting all these positive signals, but no one's buying? Or it's just taking forever? Or they minimize the deal and buy the littlest possible. So it wasn't really even worth the time. That's winning the complex sale. I teach you how to keep control over that. Understand the game you're playing. No surprises. Anticipate and prevent those surprises, those stalls. Quit reacting to their whims and you guide them through the process. They don't know how to buy. And what they're telling us is the truth at the time. But then they go back and they talk to their boss and it changes and they don't update us. No one likes giving bad news. You don't. I don't. No one does. So you never hear it. And you're going under the assumption it's moving, but it isn't. It's dying, or it might be even dead. So go to b2brevenue.com. Learn how to become a meeting-getting magician or how to win those complex sales because time is ticking. You look at the calendar, you know where you are, you know how much time you have, and you better get on it. If you think you're saving money, you're only fooling yourself. b2brevenue.com. Sign up today. Watch the videos. They're also in the show notes right next to the link for Scratchpad. Make sure you're checking that out. The people who have, have already told me and thanked me. I've gotten like 10 emails already telling me, thanks for letting me know about this. How did I not know about it? If you have to use Salesforce, You gotta get Scratchpad started. It's free. Check it out. Tell your friends. Or yeah, tell your friends about the show too. Thanks for listening. Make sure you check out the other podcasts: Sales Questions, Brutally Honest Answers, The Best of the Brutal Truth, Sales Leadership Show, and the B2B Revenue Leadership Show. I cannot stop talking about sales. We see you next time.

I was just going to give a bit of a testimonial, if that's all right, just to kick it off. Just—

Only if it's positive.

No, it is positive. It was a— yeah. Just because I started the course, I think in June of last year, 2021. I got a few more months left of access, which is good. But I feel like it's been a transformative experience in my own personal and professional life. I was able to go from a period of a low sales slump in the middle of last year in the summer and early fall, and then really was able to then come back and exceed my target By the end of the, by the end of the 4th quarter. And so the only other thing I would say is that it's also really differentiated me amongst people on the sales team in terms of focus and clarity of what's important. And now I feel really good about what I'm doing in terms of the approach of reaching out to customers and having those conversations and being focused, as opposed to just doing a lot of the other busy work on the side, like organizing resources and doing business analytics and all this other stuff. And so It's really been a noticeable difference with our executive team at my company. And so I just want to thank you for the content and for these opportunities. And so I hope that helps if there's anybody new. It's— I'm a work in progress, but it's getting better.

Good.

Yeah.

And you're selling pretty hard stuff.