HOW TO HAVE CLIENTS WANT TO SPEAK WITH YOU AND BUY FROM YOU

Hey, before we get into the interview, I want to make sure you're aware of the other podcasts I put out there. Sales Questions, Brutally Honest Answers. So, if you're looking for more of a daily Q&A, tips and tricks type of show, that's the show for you. Also, check out our friends over at brevitypitch.com. Brevity Pitch is an AI product that allows salespeople to practice their sales conversations without anybody eavesdropping on you or judging you. It just lets you warm up and then develop your skills. Because we can think it, we can plan it, uh, but until we open our mouth and practice it, it's a different thing. It's like watching somebody play golf. You gotta play golf to become good at golf. That's what brevitypitch.com does for you. Tell them Brian sent you.

Here we go. Hey, Josh, thanks for joining us today. As we get started, give us a little background on yourself.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much first and foremost for having me here, Brian. I am a father first and foremost and a husband of 12 years with my beautiful wife. I am a been in the sales world for about 10 years now and had high levels of success doing it against the status quo and spend my time not working, volunteering and coaching all sorts of varieties of sports. Yeah.

And when you say going against the grain there, what do you mean by that?

Yeah, I've really always felt when I first got into sales and I'll tell you this, I got into sales on accident. Okay, this was not my first choice of career paths. My mother and father always wanted me to get into the medical field and truly to be a doctor. I myself am a cancer survivor. So when I went through that, I had set a goal as a child that I wanted to give back to that community and be able to speak with children that are going through something very terrible and challenging and be able to come to there with an experience that I could share with them. What I quickly realized is that sales wasn't for, or I'm sorry, the medical field wasn't for me. And it was because of the challenging nature, as you could imagine, emotionally dealing in those situations. I joined the military. I got out of the service. I was in the Navy. I was a Naval corpsman. And when I got out, I didn't know what I was gonna do next. So I knew the medical field wasn't it. And I had a friend that I'll give you a quick background story on this, but I had a friend that had a job interview to be a technician with a telecom company. And I said, I'm gonna go with you. And he goes, what do you mean you're gonna go with me? I said, I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna go with you because you don't know me. We get into the interview process. I was the first one done with the test and the lady goes, well, who are you and how did you get here? And I said, well, you sent me an email. So I started my selling, right? I got an email. I'm supposed to be here. Long story short, she goes, well, wait right here. And I thought for sure she was getting security to escort me out. A young 25-year-old kid who just made a risk, right? I think I watched too many Will Smith movies. And the head of sales for that company happened to be in that office. And this is a major telecom company. And he comes down and goes, you ever think about sales? I said, never. He goes, I'm gonna put an offer in your inbox before you get home today. And that is where my sales career started on accident.

It's a great story. Is that your kind of your mindset is to kind of find and create an opportunity that doesn't currently exist?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I think we see things differently too, right? If we, when I first got into the sales world, I noticed that everybody was so process-oriented. Everybody was so focused on the numbers and the metrics and the KPIs and Blah blah blah, and I and for me it seems so foreign. I'm like, why are we thinking about this? No one gives a you know a crap about your numbers and your data. We cared about the relationship. Why? Where's the relationship in all of this? And so when I say I go against the status quo and I typically look for those opportunities, it's because many people are missing out on why people make buying decisions, on why people. have emotional connections to people and why they continue to build this relationship over years. So, you know, I think you've, you've talked about it a few times. Everyone comes in with this hunting mentality, right? We gotta hunt. Well, hunters kill their prey. Hunters kill. There is no reviving.

There is no— Who wants to be eaten?

Yeah.

Who's lunch? Yes, exactly.

But if we come in with the mentality of farming and building and helping people achieve the goals that they've put in front of them, our success will not be determined on what we did down the path, but it'll be determined on what we did today, right? And if we focus on the today, you know, the today goals, the today metrics, everything else falls into place.

Well, you know, I did one of those videos on why we hire salespeople. And the emphasis on people, you know, because everybody then treats them like robots.

Yeah.

You know, how many calls did you make today? And all of a sudden everyone cares about the number of calls they make rather than the results or the outcome or the content of those calls.

It's funny with the call KPIs, that was the first thing I ran into, right? Coming into the B2B world when I moved out of kind of your B2C sales motions and into the B2B world, everyone's like, how many calls did you make? It wasn't how many of those calls converted into new meetings or how—

It was that call to work.

Yeah, exactly. And how do you create repeatability, right? Instead of just saying, hey, if we made 150 or 200 calls today, everyone's racing to be at the top. So we're not actually looking at the results or looking at creating some sort of positive outcome. Or learning from the things that we positively implicated, you know, put together within that process. Instead, we're focused on, well, I made 150 calls.

You know, and granted, it looks pretty in the report and on the leaderboard, but did you produce anything? Did you learn anything? Did you become any better or did you become worse?

And are we teaching others, right? Are we learning from each other?

Yeah, I mean, we hire people because people connect with other people.

Or we hope, right? Or we hope.

Have you ever listened through a whole robocall voicemail?

I wonder how it ends.

Nobody cares. It's a mechanical voice and you're— no one cares.

No, no one cares. And, you know, so getting back to the relationship side, I always felt the relationship started within the first 5 seconds, right? It had to be quick because everybody's coming in with the same mentality on the buyer side. And we've all been on the buying side of the table too. Someone's looking to sell me something, but do they understand what I need? Do they understand what my goals are? You know, is it a career goal? Is it a you know, to help me get that new home for my family. Those are the things that matter and it's not the outcome of a business because at the end of the day, people don't buy from businesses, people don't buy from companies, people don't give a shit about your brand. People want a relationship, people want someone that they can trust that will help advise them on how to accomplish certain things or overcome certain objectives. How do we create force multipliers? How do we help people become better versions of themselves. Yeah.

And people want to talk to people they want to talk to, they enjoy talking to.

Yes.

And I think too many people might be listening to this and thinking, oh, it's about sports or the weather. No, not really. It's about them, whatever they care about.

Absolutely.

That's what matters.

Why do you think salespeople don't I mean, what do you think, you know, in your opinion? You've been doing this long enough.

It takes— well, you have to be comfortable with yourself to have the confidence to build some kind of curiosity. And to be curious, you have to not be worrying about your quota. And then to be empathetic, because you got to think first, then you got to think like another person. That's Thinking in general is really a struggle, you know, conscious thought, not just really like, what's the best way to do this? What do I think they care about? That then you get that empathy and that can start a conversation.

Absolutely. And it starts with actively listening and being authentic and actually having true empathetic relationships with people, like we really need to lean in. And, you know, I get asked this question a lot and people say, well, you know, I've tried to build a relationship with someone and it didn't work out well. And I said, well, let's go back and revisit this. Did you make the conversation about you or did you make the conversation about them?

Right?

Because empathy is to, right, about them.

It's not coming up with a better way of talking about your product.

Exactly.

Which is all the training we get, right? Marketing comes in, enablement comes in, competitor says this, we say this.

You ever look into persagenics? Are you familiar with the term persagenics?

No.

So early in my sales career coming into the, I worked for a company Act-On in the marketing automation space. And, you know, again, this is my first rodeo. Somebody had asked me if I you know, wanted to join a software company. And at the time I was selling high-end cars. So huge transition. I said, I don't know anything about computers. He goes, good news, I don't either. And this is someone that was, you know, a mentor of mine and highly successful in the B2B space. And he goes, yeah, I don't know anything about computers either. I'm a software guy. And I kind of took that to heart when I got in. But one of the first things that they went through in the training, they flew us all out. We all sat, you know, in this room for for 5 days in San Francisco, your traditional kind of training. And one of the first things they did is we all took a Persagenics test. Now what Persagenics goes through is your primary and secondary personality traits. And so there's 4 major personality traits that we all kind of carry. There is the amiable type, right? Your quiet, soft-spoken type. There is your expressive type. Most salespeople, right? We talk with our hands, we make sound effects. You have your analytical type that are very data Data-driven. And then you have your dominant type. Okay? And dominant is the straight to the point, you know, I don't wanna go through all the BS. I just want it straight and delivered. And so we all carry 2 of these. Most salespeople, successful salespeople tend to carry an expressive dominant trait where they're expressive, they're fun enough that we wanna talk to them. And then the dominant trait allows them to get the message across directly and quickly. But we also in the Persagenics training start to think about how others, you know, what their personality traits were. How do we meet people where they are versus trying to drag them to where we are? Because that's the wrong approach, right? We want to meet people where they are, build that trust and rapport, and then ultimately guide them to where they need to be. Now, we can look at someone's LinkedIn profile, Bryan, and we can say, Hey, are they a big smiley type with a bright colorful shirt? I can tell you they're probably expressive, right? They're probably a fun person to have a conversation with. And then there's others that, you know, maybe put on a very serious face. And before you even get on that call, you should know what type of personality traits you're dealing with. Therefore, you can set your mind in the right place to have a genuine conversation and again meet someone where they are versus trying to get them to come meet you where you are. Yeah.

And that requires curiosity because you have to be curious enough to go check it out, do a little LinkedIn research, a little Google research, try and find a hook, something that you think they will care about.

That hook is also called a pattern interrupt, right? I'm sure you've heard that before as well.

I know pattern interrupts.

Yeah. That's a big part of it. If we can create a like-minded topic subject, right, where we can create relatability quickly. It allows us to build a relationship that's meaningful and the trust that allows us to continue to move a conversation in the right direction. And if the right direction for sales is to close a deal, it's the wrong direction. Our goal should not be to close a deal or to get a signature. Our goal should be to align our tribal knowledge that we have to a problem to create a solution together.

Yeah. Now, where'd you get this mindset? I mean, it wasn't the Navy, I assume. Well, maybe.

I think a lot of it came from my parents being both being retired Marines. They always, you know, I always said that everyone said dad was scary. I said, well, mom was way scarier. But it was accomplish a goal, right? Put a goal down and accomplish it. And that was something that my father was really, really big on. It was, you know, if you set goals in your life and you don't write them down, they're just dreams. And so it was always about solving a problem and whether it was my problem or someone else's problem. It was put yourself completely, immerse yourself in that problem with them because until you feel what someone else is feeling, you honestly have no idea how to solve a problem.

Because as salespeople, we think of the problem as, that's all the only problem they have because it's the only solution we have. So we have no interest in the other problems.

And salespeople have this problem of emotionally not being connected to a problem. Like we need to be emotionally invested in that problem before we can understand how do we provide the right solution.

Yeah. And what's your take on why they don't want to be emotionally connected to it?

Sales is hard. I think sales is really hard, right? It's the one of the few professions in this world where we get told no more than we get told yes.

A lot of rejection.

Yeah. And I think rejection is really hard on people. And especially if you weren't accustomed to it or used to it or didn't have any life experiences to thicken the skin, it can be extremely, extremely challenging.

And to Marine parents, that rejection or taking feedback must have been part of the daily routine, I assume. No?

Yeah, nothing was easy. Uh, you know, pleasing, uh, Pleasing 2 Marine parents was always a tough challenge as a child, right? You could have, you could go out and hit 4 home runs in a baseball game and dad would say, well, why didn't you hit 5? Right? He'd remember the strikeout before he'd remember the 4 home runs.

So you grew up having thick skin, having survived cancer, going into the military. Why'd you pick the Navy though?

Both my parents being Marines, the Marine Corps doesn't carry their own medics. They, they are supplied there. They use the Navy. Yeah. So I had such a passion and a love for the Marine Corps growing up that anything that I could do to put our soldiers back on the field was what my job was to do. And again, it was helping people, right?

Yeah.

The interesting thing that people don't know about any medics in the, in the service is that our job is not just to help our own. Our job is to help anyone around. So this could be enemy, this could be a civilian, this could be any number of things that when we're in the field, our job is to help people. And that is the first and foremost thing that we need to do.

And I got to imagine that built up the curiosity and the empathy because you got to do triage. The first thing is what's going on?

Yes.

They're screaming, you gotta try and find the cause of the screaming, right?

Yes. Solving these problems and, you know, when you're triaging to people, it's really important that, you know, when we put this into context, we're talking to people, right? Even in their worst state, we're trying to engage, we're trying to talk, we're trying to shift the way that their mind is thinking. And so a lot of that translates over to the sales and marketing side as well is that we need to be able to create a change. We need It's— and some will call it a diversion. I don't believe that. I don't believe it's a diversion. I believe it's moving the conversation, right? And so sometimes, you know, our affirmations will control the outcomes of how we feel about something. We could have the best plan, but if we're negatively thinking about something and we're only focused on the negatives, we never actually get to the positive outcomes that we're seeking. Yeah.

And what got you really good at sales? I mean, because the, you know, the conversation, the rapport, the digging into the problem that builds interest and some urgency, but you even sell an enterprise which requires many people getting involved, the company changing.

And it's a lot of curiosity and the curiosity is extremely important. And I think too, too often, you know, we see sitting in a sales leadership position, we'll watch reps immediately fall back onto feature functionality instead of asking why, right? I think it's always that peeling back the layer of the onion, right? Understanding, hey, yeah, there's a problem. Why is it a problem? You know, who does it impact? What happens if nothing changes? You know, If we change this way, what are the predictable outcomes that we can leverage? Everyone's always focused on revenue, Bryan. From my sales experience, when we talk to someone, well, I need 25% more revenue, I need this, I— those are outcomes. Those are not goals. And it drives me absolutely wild. But I think when we have those open conversations and by building good strong rapport in the beginning allows us to ask those tough questions on You know why, right? Why is this happening? Why does this impact you? Why do you feel this way? You know, are you okay with mediocrity? Are you okay if nothing changes? Because they may be the tough questions, but you have to earn the right.

Yeah, I mean, and I gotta believe the medical because it's all tough questions, isn't it?

Yeah. Right. The personal questions.

Very personal questions. And, but how about like the process and stuff? How'd you learn that? How did you—

Again, I took the process that was already kind of established early in my sales career. Any company you go to typically has some sort of process they like to follow. That process, what I've realized might not be right for you.

Right?

In sales, a lot of what we do is about who we are, right? And we need to be authentic. And so it was funny, I'll give it, my son this morning asked me, he goes, you're gonna wear a sweatshirt on a podcast? And I said, well, that's me. I don't pretend to be somebody I'm not. I said, Brian would be lucky I didn't wear a hat today because that's me. People know me as the hat guy, as the sports guy. That's who I am. So authenticity has to be at the forefront of everything we do. Process-wise, we have to be able to find a process that works for us as individuals. Not every static process works to the skill sets of our best salespeople. And when we only look at process, we sometimes find that salespeople don't do well in that, right? And it's not a fault of the salesperson. It's actually the fault of the process that has restricted someone from being themselves and adding their own flavor and personality.

Well, that's it because most companies, the process is what they'd like it to be, not what it is.

Correct.

They'd like it to be discovery call, presentation, demo, propose, negotiate, close. But that's not how people buy. They do a little of this, some of that. Our job as salespeople is to kind of figure out what process will work to close the deal.

And a lot of times process needs to be aligned to the customer, right? To the prospect. They don't care about our process. They don't care that— Right.

They don't even know what their process is.

Exactly. Exactly. That was one of the things I got into. So, you know, I work in the PRM space and, you know, the partner partner enablement space and, you know, we touch everything, right? Everything from your LMS systems to your CRMs to your marketing automation, your ERPs, your CPQ, you name it. Okay, we touch everything. And one of the things that I walked into early at Allbound when I was there, it was, you know, it was a small company. They only had a handful of customers in 2 and a half years and everyone goes, well, we can't figure out why. We have a good process. We have these great slide decks. I said, well, your 72-page PowerPoint, it's putting people to sleep. I said, if you want to understand what processes work, understand what processes your customers don't understand so that we can help navigate and help them find the right people to understand how to get what they want.

And if you don't do that, then it's just technology looking for a problem instead of You know, showing the client what could happen.

Exactly.

If they had the possibility, because they're kind of comfortably numb with what they have.

Exactly. And sometimes a fresh eyes is what you need, right? You need that outside perspective to say, hey, this is what we see. This is what you see. But here's what I see, right? Are we on the same page? Are we seeing the same things? Maybe there's things that they haven't thought about yet, because they've lived within an ecosystem for so long that it just becomes a natural thing, right? Monday through Friday, we step in, we do and we leave.

Yep.

But the reality is, is sometimes we need that outside view. And the other piece of this is not everyone has bought something before and not everyone has bought something at the company they're working at before. And so we need to help them understand that maybe they don't know, right? And maybe it's okay to involve the right people along the way. And too often everyone, you know this, Bryan, everybody's got a wooden spoon, everyone wants to stir the pot, everyone's a decision maker. Everyone does, you know, pays the bills around here. The reality is, is that it's a team game and it's a we game, not a me game, a we game. And so we have to help them navigate the we, you know, who are my people? Who are those people that are going to help me chip off the little pieces that procurement is going to ask for before we get there and then realize there's no time left? And our deal now pushes to the next quarter. Now you've missed your number. Now leadership looks down upon you because you didn't make that mark. Right.

And I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that people make is they hear from a champion. I'm the decision maker. Whatever I recommend, they will buy.

Me and the CEO go golfing. We're like this, right?

And then I, you know, because I coach reps all the time, I go, is the CEO or their VP even aware of this problem? Not the product, not you looking for a product, but the problem. In your case, you know, connecting up all the, these stakeholders, are they even curious about how it's working? And if the answer is no and you go to them with a new way of doing it, they're like, why are we doing this?

It already works. We're already doing it. Yeah. Everything's working great.

And, and then you get ghosted and people don't understand why.

The ghosting piece is interesting. It's something that I feel a lot of reps deal with and, you know, someone just disappears. Historically, I have not had that issue, Bryan. I have always seemingly gotten a wonderful response even if we weren't the solution of choice. And people are always curious about why. Right? Why does that happen? Why don't people blow you off? Why don't people just disappear on you? Because I focused on the relationship and I focused on the person and people that you like, you will do everything in your power not to let them down, not to hurt them. And if you're just another sales rep, that's what you'll be.

Yeah.

But if, you know, we gotta care about the person and if that person genuinely feels that you care about them, They will care about you and they won't ghost you and they won't let you down.

Yeah, because let's face it, they're ghosting you because they don't feel comfortable giving you bad news. And nobody feels good about giving somebody bad news.

Yes. Yeah. I think that stands true in our personal lives just as well as our professional lives.

You know, let's say you mess up your wife's car for some reason, or it's like, When do you tell her?

Last possible moment.

Yeah, exactly.

I don't know. What'd you do?

Nobody wants, because especially to a salesperson, what's a salesperson gonna do? They're gonna go through the objection handling sequence. And a lot of sales, a lot of clients know that's gonna happen. And it's not even first you misrate it, the champion's authority and power and political clout within the account. Now you're gonna try and double down on that by convincing them that their objections aren't really real and you've got a better answer.

Doesn't matter.

They're not the decision maker.

And that happens a lot in our space too with like operations, you know, we'll build up all the champions in the world on the sales and marketing side and channel leadership side. And then it'll come down to operations and operations will say, well, I think that's great that you guys all have this wonderful desire for this product or this solution, but here's what we want. And it derails the entire thing, right? It will absolutely just crush a deal. And I think at times, you know, our champions will feel that they've oversold themselves at times too, right? Where they've maybe said, hey, you know, I put a lot of made you believe that I have all this power and all this power. And then in reality, just one person shuts the whole thing down.

Yeah. And, and I think people don't understand, and this is why we have to be proactive, because operations doesn't just get involved in one deal. At each deal, they have to— IT, security, procurement, legal— they all have a little way of slowing or killing a deal because it causes them work and change and who knows what else.

You know, it was funny. One of the things that I did when I got into enterprise sales, Bryan, which I think was very different than what most would do in their first kind of opportunity in the enterprise side was I managed really large enterprise accounts like, you know, Siemens and these massive companies and The first thing I did, and my boss scratched his head, he goes, well, you're not calling all these people. I said, I only call procurement people. And he goes, well, why? I said, because I'll fly out to where they are and I'll take them to a nice Italian dinner and, you know, and I'll wine and dine the procurement people. And he goes, well, those aren't our buyers. I said, those are absolutely our buyers. I said, if you can't get through them, they don't care. And when they have a stack of 20 requests on their desk at the end of the quarter and they see your name, guess who's moving to the top? The guy that feeds them. So that was something that was against the status quo that I did early, you know, in my career that I've always kept up with is that procurement people come first. And if I don't have a relationship there, it's gonna be really hard to get that deal through.

And everybody thinks that I've been on the procurement side that they think, oh, they just have to enter it, get someone to sign it and boom, it's off. But if that was true, why does it take weeks?

Yes. Yeah.

And they kind of have a gatekeeper mentality because it's a thankless job.

Yeah.

Nobody runs down to procurement and says, boy, you purchased that.

Did it so quick.

You only go down there and yell because they bought the wrong thing or the wrong person or the wrong price or they took too long and It's a thankless job.

But it's so critically important that we understand the buying processes of our, you know, of our customers. You know, there's a lot of companies that, you know, we've had the opportunity to sell multiple times, multiple different products. And as you know, some positions will have longer tenure than others, you know, some have a 2 to 3 year window, right? And someone new is in that place and especially in sales leadership or channel leadership and marketing leadership, you see this high, you know, change over, you know, 3 to 5 years. So you may be selling to someone completely different. But the one thing that I've seen that really kind of rings true is a lot of times procurement people end up being the same. You know, those people end up having a longer tenure with a company. They have a very good, comfortable position that they hold and they have a little bit of authority and power. So it feels good.

And It's a lifestyle job. It's not a climber's job. The people who want to become CEO don't do it through procurement. It's more the people who want a steady job, same place, same thing every day. That's fine. And those people don't move very often.

Exactly.

What skill do you wish you learned 10 years earlier than you, than you did?

Honestly, the I thought a lot about this question in particular because I've heard it before. And something that I wish I would have learned much earlier in my career was it's okay to go against the grain. You know, it's okay because I struggled early in my sales career like many salespeople do in trying to follow a process that wasn't aligned to me. It wasn't aligned to the things that I was already good at, and it wasn't doing a great job of sharpening the areas in which I was dull, right? I needed improvement in areas, but following a process only taught me how to follow the directions. It didn't teach me how to accomplish a goal. It didn't teach me how to get better at anything. It was just static. So something I wish I would have learned much earlier, Brian, was that it's okay to go against the grain. It's okay to be yourself. It's okay to be authentic. And more importantly, it is okay to care.

Well, hey, I really appreciate your time. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Yeah, so you can follow me on LinkedIn. You can also, I would encourage anyone to that cares about the sales and sales motions to also reach out to me at Ear Marks at jruffner@earmarks.com. Earmarks is a reference software that was designed by salespeople for salespeople to help them find the most referenceable customers within their databases today. So again, sales guy just trying to solve more sales problems and make it easier for salespeople to accomplish their goals.

And to become great at sales, The best way is to model somebody who already has become good at sales and to hear other people who have become great at sales and the journey that they're going through, the false beliefs, uh, the, the misnomers, the mindset issues, all of this stuff that gets in our way between where we are and the income that we want. Let's face it, we're in sales because we're money motivated, we're competitive, we want to be better every day than we were yesterday. And how do we do that? There's really, you know, read a book, listen to a podcast. That's good. Good start. I like it. But then you have to take action. And then you want both tactical and strategic ideas. You want mindset. You want strategy. You want to understand how companies buy. You want really deep content and examples, case studies, so that you can learn from other people's mistakes. That's what I'm here for.

I'm here for you to learn from my mistakes.

And boy, do I got a lot of them. So go to b2brevenue.com, sign up for the courses. There's 2 major ones. Start the Conversation, Get the Meeting fills up your pipeline. Line. Gets rid of that problem of, oh, I don't have enough leads. I don't have enough meetings. It gets those conversations started with the people you want to talk to. Now, it's not about a pitch. It's about a conversation. Now, everybody thinks of conversations when you're talking or you're online at the same time or you're on the phone or Zoom at the same time. That's not a conversation. A conversation is when the client is talking about what they care about. What they're interested in. And that is what we call qualification, where we can sense where are they and how do we build up that curiosity into interest into urgency to get a deal. And these are skills that we need. They're lifelong skills that we need in sales. And then how do we get a deal closed? Yes, anyone can take an order. But what if they don't know how to get it done? You got a new account where you're trying to get a big change done internally. What are the issues? If you're not planning that through, odds are it's not going to get done no matter how much your champion wants it. So winning the complex sale solves that problem for you. Why waste all your time on these false positives? Or these no decisions because they don't pay very well. They pay 0.0. What you want to do is pay a lot. So sign up today. Invest in yourself. You're the asset in sales. Quit waiting for somebody else to approve it or train you. See if you can get it expensed. That should be your first sales Obstacle, your first sales challenge is how do you get your company to pay for it? Just go down, tell your manager you want to do this. I put a little example email in the show notes right below here. Just swipe up and take a look at that. And if they won't, you got to ask yourself, why won't you? Why won't you? Oh, it takes time. Well, you work all day. You're working wrong all day. Why not improve that? There's the time right there. Oh, the money, Brian. It's money. Well, you make more money if you become better in sales. And Start the Conversation pays for itself the first week because you're going to get at least 2 meetings just learning from the very basics.

of it.

Closing the Complex Sale will pay for itself 100 times over. Students in it tell me it's the best money they ever spent because they now have control over their deals. And it doesn't end. Some give up. Some give up after they win their first deal and they think they've got enough. No, come back, come back, keep going. You can get even bigger deals, more deals, faster deals. That's what it's all about. Sign up today. Put the excuses away. Yeah, excuses feel good, but they're expensive. Excuse— you know what the excuses are costing you? Tens, 50, maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars a year in lost income. Really?

Yeah.

The difference between where you are today— let's say you're making $150,000. Decent, decent income. But you know, there's other people in your industry making $300K, $400K, $500K. Well, how are you going to do that? You all think it's just about getting a better job, a better territory, a better manager. They can help. Go do that. Then what happens? It's still you there with those leads trying to close those deals and Do you have the game?

Few people do.

Everyone thinks they do. Why not prove it? The market tells you what you're worth. Accept it. Now become better. And the way to become better is to improve every day. Really make a daily routine of learning and developing because it's not at the knowledge level. You have to become unconsciously competent at these skills, which takes time, repetition, and emotion. And I show you how to do it, how I did it, how I've taught hundreds of people to do it. But you have to want to because I can't force you. A lot of people wish I could. So do I, but I can't. So sign up today.

We'll see you next time.