HOW TO MAKE YOUR PRODUCT A MUST HAVE NOT A NICE TO HAVE IN B2B SALES

Today we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics and maybe yours. How do you sell what is perceived to be a nice-to-have? And I've helped a lot of companies out with this because until you must have it, everything's a nice-to-have. Remember when smartphones were nice to have? Cable TV, Netflix, big-screen TVs, air conditioning. All these things at one time were nice-to-haves, not must-haves. But some salesperson convinced the person that it was a must-to-have. And to do that, you need a couple of things. You need to build up rapport with them. You need to dig in with them. You need to be able to ask them tough questions and have them think about them. But also, in business-to-business, You have to keep the deal moving. A lot of people keep saying time kills all deals. And that can be a double-edged knife where it kills it if you move too slow. But do salespeople ever move too slow? I'm asking myself, a lazy salesperson? Typically not. They're pretty highly motivated. So they tend to move too fast. And if you move too fast, you're rushing to a no. You already got it. You don't have the order. You don't have a yes. We need to build yeses, not beg for them, push for them, cajole to them, hound for them. Those things, they can work in the simple sale, but not in the complex sale. Let's get into this interview. We've got somebody with A young person, but a lot of game, a lot of intelligence, a lot of hard work. And you put those things together, magic happens. Here we go. And if you want to learn how to make something a must-have, sign up for Closing the Complex Sale at b2brevenue.com. Here we go. Hey, Alec, thanks for joining us today.

As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Yeah, Brian, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. My name's Alec. I'm currently an enterprise account executive over at ChurnZero, which is a customer success platform. And I've been in sales, specifically SaaS, for going on 6 years now. So graduated in 2017 from college, sort of went right into the sales thing and haven't found my way out for better or for worse, but No, loving it and definitely excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

And what do you attribute your skyrocketing success to?

It's a great question and it's tough to nail down just a couple things, right? I think there's a lot of things that I learned. Obviously, I've had a good amount of mentors over the years here at a few different companies, but the number one thing that I always find myself coming back to is genuine curiosity. I think if you don't have genuine curiosity, meaning you tell me something, Brian, and I want to know more about what you just said. If you're willing to just brush something to the side and kind of go to the next thing, sales might not be the best route for you. I've found that really digging deeper and really understanding what people are talking about can help you get to results quicker and also better results as well.

Is that something you learned or something you already had or something that's part of you or?

Yeah, it might be a little bit part of me. I think I see it in other parts of my life as well. But when it comes to sales, the most difficult thing when you're getting started is sort of get away from the script, right? We're sort of trained up to learn a software, a product, a service, whatever the heck we're selling. But, you know, when you, when it comes down to it, you're having a conversation. with someone just like you and I are right now.

Yeah.

And I think that's what, what some people don't get. So I think that's something that I did struggle with in the beginning in my sales career is, um, you know, definitely like, hey, I, I gotta make sure I knock out these questions. I gotta make sure I show them these things on the demo. In reality, you should just be listening and having a conversation. If someone's, you know, interacting with you and involved in a conversation, they're gonna want to have more with you. That's what I always tell people when they're sort of getting started.

That's it, because we're not a kiosk.

Exactly.

And I think a lot of reps act like a kiosk or an ATM or like, okay, insert your card. Welcome back.

Yeah.

What would you like? Here's the menu of what we can talk about today.

And exactly when did that hit you in your sales career?

You know, Like, we're not order takers. We need to actually listen to what people are saying. And you need to also be willing to walk away if what people are saying is, you know, if it's not a problem that you can solve, then there's no need for us to have the conversation and there's no harm, no foul. So to answer your question, you know, it was in the last couple years here, and that's sort of when I feel that I hit my trajectory in sales, you know, from a results perspective. So pretty good correlation.

Yeah. And what skill do you think is your strongest in sales?

That's a good one. I think, you know, aside from the curiosity, I think that's something that everyone should have. But when it comes to a skill, I think that something that people overlook is we're really educators, right? We're not— people think about salespeople and they think about, you know, hey, I'm gonna pitch you something, I'm gonna try to nail you down and, you know, give me your, your, your, Wallet and all that good stuff. I think one of my strongest suits is that I see this as an educational process, not in the sense that I'm going to tell you, hey, here's all the things you don't know. I'm so much better than you. But it's more in the sense of, hey, you haven't necessarily maybe been down this path before with this kind of solution, with this kind of product. Let me teach you about how successful people have gone down that road and evaluated successfully something like this. So I think owning my process is my biggest skill. And I do my best in my conversations with folks to make it known what that process is, but also open it up to, hey, where do you see gaps in what you were intending to do during this process? So I think that's something that it's tough for newer folks to find. And I'm speaking like I've been in the game for 20 years. There's still a lot for me to learn, right? But I think that's tough for people to understand is we are, you know, the folks that know this thing the best. Let's make sure we tell people how to successfully do this.

Yeah. And how about your job?

What's the hardest part of your job?

Hardest part of my job? I mean, there's a lot of, when it comes to sales, just about everything is hard. I would say nothing is easy. You know, I think one of the hardest things, you know, when it comes to specifically that process is for us, you know, for me, you know, just so everyone knows, I work at a software company. We're about 300 employees. So pretty standard process is, hey, we're going to have some sort of discovery call. We're going to move into, you know, some sort of demo. And then from there, it's sort of an open book, right? You can— and that's where I talk about like owning the process. I think the hardest part is maneuvering, you know, with each different organization that you're talking to, maneuvering where to take them. Sometimes it might be directly into pricing. Sometimes it might be, you know, hey, let's get you connected with one of our customers who's successfully used this product. So I think it's sort of like finding out exactly where you want to take the deal or the process because it's not cut and dry for every single And have you moved too fast sometimes and lost a few?

Totally.

Yeah, totally. I think it all depends obviously on, you know, what kind of opportunity you're speaking with. If you're speaking with someone that's maybe, you know, you sought out, if I went and, you know, reached out to you and you're interested in taking a look, I might take it a little bit more your speed, at least in the beginning. I want to make sure you understand what I'm putting down. Sometimes it's someone that, that comes in looking for something, and that's when you can sort of hit the, hit the gas pedal a little bit harder. But there have definitely been situations, yeah, where maybe I'm pushing a little bit too hard. And, and that's another sort of hard lesson I've learned is, you know, it's, it's not gonna be the same for everyone when it comes to, to the speed. And you, you can rub some people the wrong way if you're, you know, trying to get to the outcome that you're looking for. So taking it, you know, for on their process is sort of the way to go.

And is it a lot of inbound or do you, is it outbound mostly?

It's actually both. So we get, you know, probably 1 to 2 inbound leads a week. And then we do have SDRs that are booking meetings on our behalf. We're also responsible for you know, a couple meetings a week too. So it's a good healthy mix for us.

And when you're trying to get a meeting, who do you want to meet with?

Yeah. So for us specifically, and you know, it's been obviously different at every organization I've worked with. For us specifically, we sell to customer success teams. So ChurnZero is a customer success platform similar to how, you know, Salesforce is a, you know, a tool for sales teams. Yep. So we're reaching out mainly to VPs of customer success, chief customer officers, directors of customer success. Account management is another good title, but those are folks that we typically like to have conversations with.

And don't they typically have something already, Salesforce or whatever?

Yeah, it's a good question. And the answer is yes. I mean, pretty, you know, a lot of teams can make do with what they have already. And I think that's where you know, some of our successful customers, some of the successful customers of our competitors as well, really see that the tools that they have are not built for their jobs specifically, you know, and it's sort of been an interesting, you know, game that I played, Brian, because customer success platforms are relatively new. So this is a thing where that's where that education piece comes in too, right? So the answer is yes, they do have something in place. It's not purpose-built for what they want to get done and how impactful you know, retaining customers is for, you know, continuing to get funding for their business or whatever their business goals or objectives are.

And so how do you get them to open their mind to a purpose-built product versus using just a contact manager scheduler type software?

Yeah, I would say the first thing is you got to have that quick hit list of things that, you know, your platform, your tool, your service, whatever, can do differently than those. You have to be able to foresee those objections coming up and have, you know, the 3 quick hitters. So I think you have to kind of be preloaded with it. And frankly, what I do is I'll go in and sort of call those out from the beginning, right? Like, hey, typically most people that I speak with that are managing a customer success team find XYZ challenges with a sales-driven customer relationship management tool. Curious if that sort of aligns with what you see as well. And so I think putting yourself in the shoes of other people that are like them and saying, hey, this is what I see, gets people to open up a little bit better.

But they also gotta be, is there already active frustration with, you know, using the CRM to try and do customer success?

Yeah, I mean, the initial, so for inbound conversations, typically, There is some sort of frustration, and that's what I'm trying to get at, right? And that's really where, along with, you know, other thought leaders, yourself, things like that, is we have to understand where they are now and we have to understand where they're trying to get. And when you think about where you're trying to get, you don't necessarily want to think about the small, you know, hey, I want my team to be more efficient. We need to get a little bit deeper than that. We need to understand where the business is looking to get. where you personally in your career are looking to get. So those are, you know, it all kind of circles back to the curiosity, right? These are things that you need to really just be uncovering and having conversations.

And where does the deal stall? Because I gotta believe the demo's probably flashy. I have no idea, right? But it's probably a lot better than Salesforce. That wouldn't be hard that you're able to show some uniqueness and how other people use it and People light up, but then it probably doesn't close every time.

That's correct. If it did, then I would be in a much different seat here. No, but that's one of those things where, especially right now with the economy, and I know probably everyone that you speak to has mentioned that or at least alluded to it, it is a big thing, right? Like, where are these deals stalling? And my leadership is trying to do a better job of really pinpointing that. For us, it's, it's, you know, it depends obviously per, you know, organization to organization, but where we see it stall is more, we don't have as much difficulty getting in the door to have conversations. It's really after we've seen this thing, now we realize how much it can do. And, you know, by the way, our tool isn't affecting only customer success. It's also got its hands in sales, product marketing. So I think people realize how many different departments this might be involved with. And then it just becomes a game of Well, how high of a priority is this? And so that's where myself and my colleagues have to dive a little bit deeper and try to really build that business case because after the demo, right, these things might stall and people might go dark. It's sales, you know, it's a fun game we play.

Well, I got to imagine with the classic, you know, because everybody copies everybody, the playbook is you have the The demo and then, oh, we gotta get you a proposal. Would you like 2 more? And I bet it close, it stalls right after that. Then they ghost you.

Yeah. And you're right. And it, it's funny you bring that up because, you know, one of the things that I've been trying to do more of, because I do see in my future, I, I do want to be in a leadership position managing a team. So one of the things I try to do is, is sort of put that hat on sometimes as we're hiring new people, help mentor, And I again have a ton of mentors myself that have helped me with this too. But, you know, one of the things that I see them doing is trying to follow that process, like you said, sort of the cookie cutter script to a T. You know, it's like, hey, we had a demo, I gave them a proposal, why am I not hearing from them? And that's where it all comes to, you know, we really need to read each situation and we need to understand where we're gonna drive impact for this organization. And I almost guarantee you it's not sending a blanket proposal after, after one demo. That's probably the same for most organizations and people that you speak with too.

Yeah, it just stalls there and they don't know why.

Yeah.

So all that stuff that got you there was just exercise if they don't know how companies buy. So what drives you as a person?

One of the things, you know, when I started in sales, I was the, you know, I was the wide-eyed college kid at the career fair. I was a business major. So, you know, not to say that I didn't have any hard skills, but I wasn't an engineer and I wasn't an architect. And there's a lot of directions you could go with a business degree. So I was that wide-eyed kid that, you know, loved talking to people, loved, interacting with folks, love getting a little bit strategic in certain things. And so that's sort of what got me into sales and what continues to drive me, as cliché as it sounds, is really solving problems for organizations. I think one of the biggest lessons, Brian, that I've learned recently and sort of applied is the idea of like abundance and detachment. So when you're going into a deal, you don't want to be thinking of it as, hey, I need to close this. I need to close this deal. I need to hit my number. And that's something that's almost impossible to get out of a salesperson's brain. But when you start to move away from being attached to a specific deal and its outcome and more on, I need to solve this business problem, I need to help this organization. That's what, that's the kind of thing that drives me. Is the ability to help companies continue to grow and continue to drive forward. Tried to apply that in my previous jobs too, but I think the one where I am now, it's really sort of the light has really been shined on that piece of it.

But if that's your motive, why didn't you move into being an SE?

An SE is a tough job. SE is a tough job.

I'm sorry.

And when you say SE, obviously sales engineer, you're right. I mean, and I think the technical piece of it could be there for me. I think it's not—

Solving problems.

Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. Solving business problems though, right? We have SEs here on my team and they're incredibly talented. They're incredibly smart and they do great work. Where they're not as focused is the business objectives, right? So they're focused on solving that technical problem, you know, integrating data, you know, technical parts of features and functionality. I'm less interested in that. I'm more interested in solving business problems. I'm more interested in why that CEO or why that CFO would cut a check for my type of tool. And that's not something that an SE is necessarily as worried about. Yeah.

And the detachment can be helpful, but it can hurt as well because if someone else wants the deal more than you, like Gainsight calls in there and says, those kids, you want to put your company on that thing, right?

That's a good point. Yeah. And by I don't mean completely detaching per se from a deal.

Here comes the truth.

Brutal truths. That's what we're here for.

I'm a little detached.

Yeah. So, and that's sort of what I was alluding to. You can't, as a salesperson, fully detach from something. I'm building relationships. You know, this thing matters. I've had ones where I, you know, message my director and I say, hey, it's down to the wire with us and, you know, someone like Gainsight. This one's going to sting if we lose it. So that is definitely the truth there. I think where I was sort of spreading myself thin and some of my colleagues was really thinking too much and really thinking more only about the deal closing. Hey, I care about myself.

It's like an emotional attachment of, yeah, I need this so bad.

Exactly. And when you think about the amount of, yeah, the amount of folks that are out there that you could be talking to, that's the beauty of sales is that, you know, unless you're in a really, really, really niche market, you're gonna have more conversations tomorrow, right?

Well, I guess I'm speculating because I don't know your space that well that it's not a must-have yet. It's a nice to have. How do you get them to think like it's a must-have?

Yeah. And would totally agree actually, when he's like, I want to take this where you all are from somewhat of a nice to have, which I think even we agree it can be, but I think where it's headed is to make it, you know, when I talk back to the business objectives, the business problems, what we're seeing, if you look on LinkedIn, if you look, you know, if you follow like SaaStr or anything like that, is that Net revenue retention. So the ability to renew your customers, but also continue to grow them is really, it, it, my CEO, Yuman, always talks about this. It went from an, oh, by the way metric in the board meeting to a, this is really the North Star. This is what we care about when we're investing.

But I also got to imagine that the people that run customer success aren't as driven as like the people who drive sales. And I think your deals probably get stuck because they go, because most likely it's unbudgeted. So they gotta go pull the funding from somewhere. So it's not this, that guy can't sign it. So he's gotta go sell it internally.

Exactly.

And they're like, well, how are you doing it now? And they go, oh, we use whatever. And what, why aren't we just sticking with that? And they crumble.

You're exactly right. That's one of the, one of the, one of the biggest things we see that, you know, aside from, you know, there's others, but the CFO saying, hey, we're paying a lot of money for that thing over there. Why can't we just—

We already got one.

Exactly.

It's better, but who cares?

And I think that, that sort of also, Brian, goes back also to the education piece that I think is, is so important. especially in this job, because, you know, you're exactly right, like, you know, VPs of CS and the new, you know, upcoming of the Chief Customer Officer that frankly, that hasn't been a job for very long, we're seeing more and more.

Yeah.

You know, customer success people aren't really used to purchasing software, there hasn't in the past been a dedicated system like that. So that goes all the way back to the education piece, knowing your space, knowing what impact we're going to have, And also helps to have some people that'll be able to back you up, you know, customers that can, you know, speak well of you and impact that they've seen as well.

And in the deal, what skill do you think that you have that most, or is the best that most reps that you work with or have worked with aren't seeing?

I do. Yeah, I get the gist of it. I, Really think that, you know, there's one sort of, I don't know if it would be considered in the weeds thing, but something that I've recently picked up that has actually been working pretty well. And I think it's something that a lot of, you know, reps are a little bit scared to do, and that's proactively bring up potential risks, right?

Yeah.

Rather than waiting for them to come to you. Everyone knows, everyone in sales know what happy ears are. And unfortunately, that's the number one thing I hear. Oh, this deal's going to close this week. Why? Oh, they said they wanted it to. Yeah. They love us.

Because I need it.

Yeah.

I needed it yesterday. That's the number one thing we hear.

I was detached, but now I'm attached.

But I think that is, that's what I've gotten good at over the 3 years that I've been here is being able to identify what those risks could be, what the most common ones are. And one of them, by the way, is, you know, the CFO saying, you know, hey, we have something that does this without fully knowing what ours does. And so calling those out earlier rather than later, you know, in sales, we want to get to the yes or we want to get to the no. We do not like that maybe zone. I don't know how you feel about that.

Well, you're already at no. You don't have to do anything to get a no. There's no maybe. There's never had a maybe PO show up.

Exactly.

Half signed, or we're almost there. No, you can't, you can't book this though. There's no maybe.

Exactly. And, and so, yeah, what I mean is like being in sort of that, that floating middle zone of they're not responding to me, right?

That's a no.

Yeah. Effectively in the, in the, in the mind of a rep, sometimes maybe not.

Of course not. You think the client is in a maybe? Maybe I'll call you back.

Big old wink.

But what I loved was asking those hard questions because for somebody with 6 years experience, that's great insight.

Appreciate it.

Yeah, because most people are like, I don't really want to ask because I really don't want to hear the answer. Because they haven't talked to the CFO. They didn't know to talk to the CFO. They talked to their manager. And do these people typically report to the CEO or do they still report to like the CRO?

It totally depends on the size of the company. We work with teams, you know, 40-employee shops all the way up to the, you know, divisions of Adobe and things like that. So it really depends. Sometimes the CEO's involved more than often not.

Yeah.

So, and bringing up those risks, right? It's again, getting to where you want to get quicker, whether that's the budget or we're already paying for something like this, which is big right now, could also be like a technical type of requirement. Ours is very dependent on integrations, right? So information you already have in your ecosystem, Hey, let's feed it into ours. There's certain work that comes with that, and that's frankly one of the things that'll slap a deal down late stage. So bringing that up earlier is powerful.

And how about judging a deal? Let's say you've been working with them for a while. How can you tell when it's going to close? Have you really gotten a sense of this is a real deal versus this is a next year deal when the budget comes around and they rethink it the next cycle, the renewal of Salesforce or whatever?

Yeah, it's a great question. That's the other fun thing about sales is sometimes things can jump out at you and catch you off guard. So there's no dead set answer to that. What I've seen in my time here is, you know, obvious things like, you know, the legal process has begun. That's typically something that takes a few weeks to We've seen months here, you know, things like that. You've gotten power on a call. That's something that my director, John, is always going to ask me, are we with power? Yes or no? If we're not, it might not be a real deal, right? So it's all about token pools. Who's on the call? Generally, it kind of depends again on the size of the organization. If it's a smaller organization, we might be speaking to, you know, the C-suite. Other than that, it's VP and up generally is power because a lot of times in those larger enterprise sort of level organizations, we're gonna be working, our champion is probably gonna be someone below VP level. So we wanna make sure that we're involving them. And so that's another one. The other one that I would say, and one of the best ways I've been able to predict whether a deal is going to close or not is building a really, really strong champion. So whoever you're working with, you need to know that they're going to fight for you alongside you. And so that might mean getting on texting terms with that person. I know that's a big thing now, but that's where I've seen a lot of success is getting to the point where I'm shooting them a text after a meeting and hopping on a quick call as opposed to relying on email. So that's not always— not saying if you text someone, the deal's going to close. I hope no one takes that away. But building a strong champion is huge, especially in our space.

And I've got to speculate that somebody who runs customer success is a people pleaser versus the typical going against the grain maverick within an organization, because if they were, they'd go into sales.

Exactly. And yeah.

Customer success for a different reason. And that reason may hurt you trying to, them championing your product and change.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you're, you're right about the, the people pleaser thing. I think that's a good and bad thing in this space because we're having conversations with a lot of nice folks, but sometimes can't really tell.

They're not doing it.

How, how real it is. Right, right. So that, that's where the, you know, getting power involved comes in too. But there's a lot that goes into that as well.

Yeah. Have you been able to, a way of telling if they're gonna be that person who's gonna run the gauntlet?

Yeah. I mean, generally it's the person that sort of, you know, we'll start the conversation with. So if it's an inbound type of meeting, you know, I can sort of tell early on. You know, I had a deal recently where she actually told her leadership team, she said, hey, if this, you know, if this thing that I'm asking for that I know my team needs, If we can't budget it this year, like, you know, we might have a bigger problem, right? So it was almost like she got to a point where she was literally putting herself on the line to say, I've seen value, I've built a case here. If you want me to stick around, let's make sure that this works out. So I think that's incredibly, you know, powerful.

Hey, Alec, I really appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Yeah, absolutely. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. My last name is a bruiser, but Alex Schattelbauer. And you can shoot me an email, alexschattelbauer@gmail.com, if you had any questions about anything I mentioned today. Happy to connect with folks.

What a lot of sales managers and CEOs don't understand about the complex sale is that There's a lot more to selling than the talking and the listening part, that conversational part. The process is where the magic is. Why? Because you can have beautiful conversations and meetings, but the deals go nowhere. Remember, we're competing against doing nothing, which wins 80% of the time.

Research says.

You know me, I believe every bit of research I get. Yeah, I don't know what that number is, but whatever it is, it's higher than we want it to be. But where do we lose the deals? Where do the deals slide and skip and stall? Is it really when we're talking to them? No, it's, it's when they try and do something internally. It's the process, meaning the steps. They don't know how to buy. Most reps don't know how companies buy. 99%. So put yourself in that category. If you think you do know how to buy, how they buy, send me a little note. Yeah, I'll see. I'll see how well you know how they buy.

Well, I send a quote and they issue a PO somehow.

Yeah, that's not how they buy. That's how you wish they bought. And you can sit around Patting yourself on the back and putting a big A player on your title, whatever it is. But it's your income that matters, not your ego. Everyone's got their ego.

Check.

Yeah, I think a lot of myself. Check. And that's good for self-confidence, but self-confidence needs to be reined in. It needs to be there when you want it to be, but you need to take it down a notch so that you can see What the other person cares about. You can become curious about what's going on. You can become empathetic to think about what would they do? What would I do in their situation? To get yourself to think like them. Quit trying to have people think like a salesperson. I've seen a lot of salespeople do this. They act like a salesperson. They get treated like a salesperson. Then they get mad they get treated like a salesperson. Here's the secret: don't ask them to treat you differently. You must behave differently to get treated differently. And you can become really good at the conversational selling, and you should become really good at it. It's the part we have total control over. But the A players, the best players, they become aware and good at the process.

When I mean Process.

I don't mean demo, propose, negotiate, close. I mean their process. I know you don't even know what it is. What do they do once they get that quote? How do they get that thing done? They don't know. I know you think they know. They told you they knew.

They did.

And I, I get it from very senior salespeople.

Well, of course they know. Why?

Why would they know? How many CEOs I've sat down with at the end of the quarter don't know how to get a purchase order done at their own company? Company they founded. The company they built. Is it intelligence? No, it's bureaucracy. And to be able to work around bureaucracy, you have to understand how bureaucracy works. What are the levers that you can pull? Because bureaucracy is set up to do nothing. That's why they call it a bureaucracy. Lots of people get paid for telling you no. But we don't get paid for taking no. We get paid for building yeses. So let's learn how to do that and how to control it and direct it and speed it up.

Speed it up?

You can speed it up, Brian? I can. Do you want to know how? And it's not just knowing how, it's practicing it enough times so that you're flawless at it, like any other performance activity. Oh, sounds like work, Brian. It's a little like work, but it pays better. Pays better, Brian?

Yes.

You want to make money? You gotta learn how companies buy, not just how to talk pretty. We all talk pretty, but we don't close deals because everyone walks away convinced, but they don't know how to get it done. Let's teach them how to get it done. Let's do it. Sign up today. Quit wasting your life.

I'm holding on to my pennies and I'm not giving any away. Okay.

You do that.

What book would you recommend?

There's no books on this.

Sorry. Oh, I need to— oh, is there a tip or a trick?

Nope. No tips or tricks. It's a strategy. It's a process. You gotta learn it. Gotta sign up today. Quit rationalizing. You're selling yourself. Your worst customer.

Why?

Because you buy it all.

But you don't pay. You can't pay yourself. It sounds good, but the net is always nothing. Sign up today. Change your life.