HOW TO WIN IN THE MOST COMPETITIVE OF SALES - MUST LISTEN TO

Got a great one for you today. This guest is a little bit more serious and more intense than most of my guests. I do a little bit of joshing around, but this guest is pretty buttoned up, very focused, and you can see why he's successful. The asset test that I have in my mind when I'm talking to these great salespeople is, would I like to compete against this person? And in this case, I definitely would not want to compete against him. He definitely knows his stuff. And if you really pause and write down what you hear today and ask yourself, how can I implement this into my world, into my sale, regardless of how hard it is? Because what he is selling, I gotta believe, is up there in the hardest of the hard. It's viewed as a commodity. Lots of people sell it. It's business equipment. Every business has it. Every business uses it. But there's a lot of people that sell it. And it's contract-based, meaning that people sign up for multi-year contracts. So there's a window of opportunity that only comes around every so often. So you have to build a know, like, and trust relationship before that time happens. And be able to keep those deals moving and separate yourself from the alternatives. Sounds easy, right? I've got a few people in the courses that are in this space, and I empathize with them. It is a hard space. There's probably no inbound. It's all outbound, all cold, uh, competing against a lot of people with people who are beat up by people coming in after them. So I think you're really going to get a lot out of this. This is one you might want to check out on YouTube as well, but take notes. I'll sum it up at the end. And if you want to become really great at sales, go to b2brevenue.com. We had a great office hours yesterday coming up with really great solutions for people when they're able to share their ideas with other people, their challenges, Because we're all facing similar things, and sometimes you just have to hear someone else talk about how they got around it. Enough about that. Let's get into the interview.

Hey, Mike, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

I'm officially 20 years into the technology space, copiers, printers, and all that. And, uh, started, uh, in Gainesville, now live in Orlando and, uh, cover, um, across the state of Florida assisting with sales teams and all that.

And why sales for you?

Well, I knew for me when I graduated University of Florida, I was looking for something that, uh, I knew that I was going to go above and beyond regardless of what I did. So getting a salary job just didn't really make sense to me. I knew that I was never focused on the 8 to 5. If the task took me 20 hours, then I'm working 20 hours. Um, and to that point, I've had to put things in place, like on my calendar, it specifically says at 6 o'clock, uh, go home because I know that I will continue to work.

Where'd that work ethic come from?

Uh, well, my mom is a recruiter. So growing up, I had all different types of jobs so I could see what I didn't like, what I did like. So I used that process of elimination trying to figure out what made sense for me.

Yeah. And the 100% commission recruiter?

She was 100% commission recruiter. So, yeah. Uh, and my, my mom actually worked for a large recruiting firm and then, um, ended up opening up her own firm because she saw the benefits there. So got to see all aspects of it.

So you kind of grew up in a sales culture, huh?

I did. And then, you know, had all types of odd jobs, you know, from, I mean, I was looking back at my first job, I was 12 years old. So from 12 until I was 21, I typically had 2 jobs at a time. So you figure out what you like and what you don't.

And how do you keep that up 20 years? That's not a short walk.

That's 20 years in this, in the same business. But, you know, I'm 43 now. So Been working quite, you know, some time from 12. So—

Don't they have child labor laws down in Florida? No?

I think I was paid under the table at most of those jobs. So, well, landscaping jobs and things like that. So a variety of different jobs, figuring out, you know, what I liked and what I didn't.

So money motivated, is that accurate or?

Money motivated. Yes, that's one of the motivators. But I think after you've made enough money, you start to figure out that money's not the true motivator. I think, you know, like one of the things I'm constantly telling our team is that don't make it about you, make it about them. And I think when you do it for all the right reasons, you're, you know, money becomes a benefit, but it's not the objective.

Yeah. And when you say all the right reasons, how do you characterize that?

I think the first part of it is really understanding the current customer situation. So many times sales reps go into situations and they have their own agenda, but they don't know what the customer's agenda is. So I think it's, it's really asking the proper questions. Even as we brought on new sales reps and we have our company packet going through, you know, what we do, but I've tried to encourage them to turn it all into questions because if we're dictating and telling them these are all the products and services that we do and here's, you know, this whole portfolio, but we haven't really engaged and asked them the proper question, that's how we really start to understand the heartbeat of the account. Yeah.

And what are some of those go-to questions for you?

A lot of it's spinning it. So like, for example, when we look at our products, So let's just say it has a picture of a, say it's a production device. For us in a production device, I'm typically asking the question, what do you guys outsource that you would potentially use a production device for? So it's, it's asking a specific question to get a specific answer. Or more importantly for me, the one of the traits I always talk about is bring them to the fridge. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. term? No. So, so if I ask you, all right, Brian, what are you having for dinner tonight?

What am I having?

Most people do the same thing you're doing right now. They say, I don't know, 'cause it's not a good question. But if I say, okay, Brian, in your fridge, do you have chicken?

There you go. Yeah, I do.

In your fridge, do you have steak?

I do.

Yeah. In your fridge, do you have fish?

No, I don't have fish.

So you're probably either having chicken or steak tonight, right? So then now, no matter what product or what company you're selling for, if you're asking good specific questions, you get good specific answers.

Yeah. Instead of what's your decision-making process for dinner?

It's too vague of a question. Exactly.

It's like I open the fridge and I go, I think I like that, right?

So when you start walking through it, you realize that it's not a good question.

It's a sales-focused question instead of a client-focused question.

100%.

Yeah. And I gotta imagine your sale is hard from my perspective.

I think it's easy. Yeah, to me it's super easy. I think it's easy because at the end of the day, it's B2B sales is what I love. I love business-to-business sales because A lot of it's first off finding the right timing for the client. So, so many times a sales rep wants to set an appointment and it's not even the right time. They just, you know, did a transaction 6, 12 months ago. So the first objective should be gaining and gathering information on the current situation, not trying to close for an appointment. And that's what I think becomes one of the first problems. You're so focused on closing for the appointment, but you're not focused on the real objective is Gather the information to make sure it's a good opportunity to set an appointment.

And what are the questions there? Is it the timing of their contract? Because I got to believe you're in a contract-based business.

Definitely a contract-based business. So usually how I describe it to people is think of it like your cell phone. So if I said, Brian, you know, who are you with on your cell phone today? Is it Verizon or AT&T?

AT&T.

So if it's with AT&T, is Verizon service similar?

Yeah, it's better.

It's better, right? So, and then how much are you currently spending on that, that, uh, AT&T contract? $150 a month? $200 a month?

$200. Yeah.

So you're spending $200. So if I could use all the incentives we have from Verizon, save you $50 a month, get you the new iPhone 14, would you give me an opportunity?

Yeah.

That's it. That's all we do every day. So to me, it's easy.

Cool. And what's hard about it? Nothing.

The hardest part about it is that you have to make 100 calls to get 2 or 3 good, what we call qualified gathering of information before you go to set the appointment. The hard part is that you have to grind it out to build that pipeline up to where you have good qualified opportunities to schedule the appointment.

And who on the other end do you want to talk to? Who's the real desired person?

Well, like one of the— there's so many resources out there. But knowing the title of the person, again, is very important. So if I'm dealing with an office manager, that could be the right person. Because I'm always befriending everybody along the way. But I'm asking that office manager, if this was to save you $50 a month on your AT&T bill, would you sign off on that? Or do you have to go to the partner to get that approved? So that buying cycle and the buying patterns of who's involved is important to know as well.

And how do you keep them from viewing you as just another person? That, that sells another thing.

In my space, I'm always training my team in 3 aspects. It's product knowledge, sales knowledge, industry knowledge. And if you're not bringing a little bit of each one of those to the table every time you're meeting with the client, then you are just an Amazon, you're just a price with a product. And they can read everything that they want. But if you're not bringing some value to the table, So one of the things on a more consultative approach is that we have to understand how the client's using their existing technology and where the gaps are, that maybe there's some weaknesses that we can give them product enhancements or solve a problem as well as hopefully save them, you know, some money.

And how do you get to that without being pushy? Because they're not thinking about their problems when you call, right?

They're thinking about their job and Well, and that's where for me, I know my value and I think it's important to know your value. And we'll have clients many times just say, give it, just give me a price, just give me a price. And I said, look, if you want a price, maybe you should just jump on Amazon. And I think that you have to be stern in what you do and say, look, my value is coming in and really understanding because especially since COVID and that becomes a great vehicle to pivot and say, look, since COVID most offices have changed. And one of the, the most important parts we're trying to accomplish is, is to schedule an appointment to do a walkthrough. Because, you know, in our space, we could be looking at their phones, we could be looking at their shredders, their copiers, their printers, so many different aspects. And you don't see that over, over the phone. You don't see that via an email. So a walkthrough and understanding how it's all interconnected is extremely important. And that's how we bring the value.

And how do you separate? Because as soon as you get a client, you've got your competitors lining up to take it away from you.

Surprisingly, 75% of the time we win the deal because we're not being like the competitors. And what I mean by that is that we're trying to really— we're anticipating the competitive nature of competitor in there. But our proposal will always stand out in front of everybody else's because we're looking at the short-term strategy for the client as well as the long-term. And many of our competitors, they pass right through that. And there is a component of product vomit where you're vomiting too much products on the client where they feel a little overwhelmed. So they will wanna say, okay, well, let's focus on these 2 categories today. But notate the fact that these other 3 are great, you know, phase 2 and phase 3 for us to revisit later. And that helps give us a better bond, a better relationship with the client.

And why did you move into leadership? You sound like you were doing so good at sales, you got it down.

You do take a pay cut going into leadership as well. So it was tough. And, uh, but I think that there's a, there's a component of when you can get on the stage and you can coach and teach, there's a component of gratification and knowing that you've helped people. Um, like when I look at, you know, my sales teams over the years, helping them buy their first home, helping them buy a better car, a better life, or paying for their kids' college, you know, those are, those are gratifying just as much as the money aspect.

And what do you look for in reps?

It's been changing. But the, you know, because the reason why I say it's been changing since COVID so many times when I hear someone say, well, can I work remote? That throws up a big red flag for me because I'm of the belief that there's no cheating hard work. You have to show up and you have to grind it out and you build your pipeline, you build your portfolio, you build your relationships, and you can't do that remote.

And that magic that happens in person, especially in your business, because the call may go great, but it's a short period of time and when it's over, it's over. They move on to the next thing.

I'm of the belief, and one of the things I always coach and communicate to the team is that if it's a net new customer where it's not our current client, every proposal, every meeting, we want to try to get face to face, belly to belly, because that relationship can be trumped by everything else. The relationship can trump price. The relationship can trump products and services and features and functions. So it is extremely important that every appointment we are trying to get face-to-face as much as we can.

And you mentioned the grind, but you have a very intellectual approach to it as opposed to—

you have to be strategic. Yeah, because to me, the strategy of the sale is extremely important. One of the things I'll do with our teams Is, and it took a little bit for each member, each salesperson to kind of get this, but I like to run every scenario. So we sell multiple brands. So we'll sell, we'll do a proposal on brand A, B, and C, and then we'll say, okay, let's eliminate one. Which one would you eliminate? And we try to role play a lot so that we can really anticipate what the client's gonna react to, what they're gonna like, what they're not gonna like. And I think that part is extremely important. You come in so much better prepared for the proposal meeting when you're proposing to the client when you're better prepared.

And how do you stay out of the pricing trap where you, you get a proposal and then they shop it around? How do you build up enough value that's not just the product and the price?

I think education is, is the key. One of the approaches that we really try to take is educating the client. So we had an account That I had a sales rep that was not doing very well. And I said, just set appointments at this point, even if they're meet and greet appointments, I don't care, set the appointments. So he set appointments. And what he saw is that what you can accomplish over the phone just as much as you can in person is that we were able to build relationships with a law firm walking in. They're like, well, you know, we're good right now. We have a good contract. I said, well, just tell me a little bit about it. And they said, well, we, we signed it about 3 years ago. And I said, okay, well, you're a law firm. How do you bill back clients? And they said, well, we, we bought this software to do it, but it's really not working correctly. And I said, do you mind if we go to the device and take a look at it and understand it better? So that engagement with the client and then the product knowledge, the sales knowledge, the industry knowledge helps you really get your arms around the value that you bring to the table for the customer. So price is always an aspect and you have to figure out how can you be in addition to price. So in our products, if you're only in one category like the copier, your margins will be smaller. But now if I'm selling you a copier and now we're also doing a phone system and IT, some other aspects, the profitability increases because you've gained trust and now you're into a diversity of products that gives you value.

And when you hear pricing as an objection, is that not a good client, or is that somebody who doesn't see the value?

Or—

I got to believe, like a law firm, they care about it working because the people using it are so expensive that the equipment is nothing compared to the people's time.

I think that in our space, like if I'm out cold calling with the rep, and let's just say it's a dental office, a dental office where it's one doctor and maybe 2 or 3 extra employees, they're not running through a whole lot of paper. So we have an education piece that compares consumer-grade devices versus commercial-grade devices. So we'll educate customers right off the rip where we will explain to them, we sell the commercial-grade devices. You can go to Office Depot and get the $300 device. Ours start at $1,500. But here's the value. The value is that you can call someone for service. You can, you can have toners be shipped to you automatically. So we have to sell and educate on the value of, of what's difference between the consumer grade versus the commercial grade.

And when you're interviewing a rep, what do you look for?

I spin it just like I do with the customer. I ask a lot of questions. How would you handle this situation? What are your thoughts about this? What motivates you? Just like you're asking me what motivates me. Many people will answer it with money and, you know, the other reps will answer it from the standpoint that I like incentives, I like solving a customer's problem, I like the carrot. You know, the more that they understand, the more you'll realize how educated they are in the sales process.

And do they have to have sales experience before you hire them?

In the current organization I'm in, we don't have a training facility or a training program that really gives that entry-level sales knowledge. So we look for people that at least have a year or 2 of sales experience because it's a burden on the company and we just, we're not supported to bring on those people from ground zero.

And what separates the very best that you've experienced, the very best salespeople, from the, the run-of-the-mill or the average?

What's funny is there's 2 spectrums. There's one spectrum where you have someone who's just a hustler and they will outwork everybody else. They may not be the smartest, they may not be the most eloquent speaker and things like that, but they outwork everybody else. That person brings a lot of value to the table because they Their pipeline is always going to be bigger than everybody else's, even though maybe they're not the most eloquent. They may not, you know, dress the best, but they will outwork everybody. So I'm either looking for that, or there's the other person that comes with a lot of product knowledge. They come with a lot of expertise, and they are more eloquent. Their sales cycles are typically longer, but their revenue and margins are typically higher. So those are the two components I'm looking for that just make sense.

Yeah. You haven't found them together though.

You know, it's, it's kind of like, uh, there's 3 options you can find. Usually you can't have all 3. Yeah. So it's, it's a very rare breed to find.

Because I got to imagine the grinder doesn't get deep enough into the accounts. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm guessing here, but from my experience, I, I find the grinder does well when they have you know, a good book of business when they've got momentum already, where there's a lot of touching and service and communication activity that needs to be done?

Well, it's the details, right? So the grinder typically is bad with details and the more methodical person is not as good with grinding. Yeah. So that's why it's hard to find someone with all 3 traits. It's, it's very difficult to see someone that's very good with details, grinds it out and is a specialist in the trade. That's very hard to find.

And how about as far as how they view sales? Because the grinder obviously views it as grinding and that if it works, it works. But the rest, some view it as a puzzle, some view it as a competition, some view it as a ranking.

And that's where to me it goes back to doing it for all the right reasons.

Yeah.

There are some of the— on both sides, they're on both sides, whether it's the grinder or the specialist. If it's all about them, then they typically lose clients. So those are the ones that typically will lose anywhere from 10 to 20% of their current customer base because they don't maintain the existing customer base. And that is a different aspect that from a managerial standpoint, you have to coach and guide them That you have to have good follow-up and follow-through with these pieces. If you look at what most companies will complain about, it's because the person that they're dealing with is not following up and following through. So that's a trait you have to constantly guide and direct.

That's it. Because I got to imagine in your market, the client wants knowledge, service, and, and getting things done.

It's the reason why in our space we have reps that come in and say, oh, well, I've got someone I know in Chicago. The problem with it is that, to your point, a client wants to be able to buy it, have it serviced locally, and they want, you know, that quick turnaround because, you know, we're in this— we're in America where we want everything now. We don't want to wait, you know, for service and all that. So it's easier when you can be face to face with the client to get that sale. The sales that are out of state and all that are very difficult to, to close.

And what would you say is your strongest selling characteristic?

I live by slow down and sell faster. You have to slow it down to understand what's going on with the client and you don't skip a step. So it's like, you know, there's a saying that Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky did not make good coaches because they were such amazing athletes. So if there's 10 steps to the process and they were skipping 2 or 3 steps along the way, They didn't become good coaches. They can't coach on the 10 steps. So I think that the reason why I focus on slow down and sell faster is because you have to really understand where you're at in the sales cycle before you present a proposal. Before, you know, do I need to back up a step and go back to the walkthrough because I missed something? So it's critical to know where you're at in the sales cycle and present it at the right time.

And did you come up with that process? Did you learn it from someone else?

I'm a creature of observation. So I always watch someone's good traits and someone's bad traits. And I have adopted everybody's goods, bads, and indifference and molded it into, you know, the person that I am.

And did you write it down? Did you map it out?

Did you All the above. So I've mapped it out, I've written it down. Now I have a lot of it on paper because as we bring new reps on, you know, here is the process for workflow, here's the process for that so that they have something to go to because that, you know, that becomes critical to have something to relate to.

And let's say you're doing a ride-along and you're going into a huge opportunity. Stakes are high. What are you talking to the rep about before you go in?

Anticipation. We have to anticipate every question. The bigger the meeting, the more prepared we have to be. We have to be ultra prepared. We have to have every brochure, every product, every potential thing. We have to take good notes. So like the bigger the opportunity, we have to make sure that our notes are so critical so that when we get to the point of proposal, that we will not leave any rock unturned.

And let's say it's their turn to drive the meeting. How do you, how do you stay quiet? Or how do you—

It's not easy. I have to usually use duct tape to my mouth because I want to chime in and I'm, I'm, you know, very excited and I get driven. So it depends on the rep. So like, I had a meeting this morning and I told the rep, I want you to drive it and then I'm just going to add in as need be. So I want you to facilitate it. You've got to drive the process and the program, and I'm going to enhance what you're saying if I feel that maybe we need to drive something additional.

And what do you do on the ride home?

How do you think it went? What could we do? Could have done better? Was there anything that we didn't have that we could have been better prepared on? Yeah. So again, it's got to be specific questions about making it better overall.

And how do you know when you got an A-level rep?

The A-level rep is coming to you and saying, "Hey, look, I've got it all prepared. What am I missing?" So the rep that is ultra prepared. Because some reps will say I'm not the easiest to work with because I'm a perfectionist. So because I don't like to go into that big meeting without making sure that every T is crossed and I is dotted. In addition, I'm also a firm believer that the bigger the meeting, I need more days to sleep on it. And I want to have a clear head, come in, think about it again, and then I may need to sleep on it again and have a clear head and think about it again and again and again. So I'm very analytical. But I know that I have to give time to rest and make sure that I've given clarity to making sure that we're giving the best solution to the client.

And what drives you more, the desire to win or the hatred of losing?

So it's easy to do a Monday morning quarterback of the deals you lost. The deals I lose drive me more than the deals I win because like one of my positive tips for the New Year's that's up on my wall right now says to celebrate every win. And I have a tough time with that because it's the losses that drive me crazy.

Yeah.

The losses is the dagger in the side. The wins, you know, it's to be expected.

But how do you unwind? Because you can't, or maybe you can't keep this level of intensity all the time.

Well, it's like, you know, it being January, we first, we did our 2023 forecasts and projections and, you know, there's got to be personal goals in there as well because to me, You have to unplug. And I think the downside of having a cell phone and everything with you is that you're never off. And like, you know, one of the best trips is typically a cruise that has no Wi-Fi because you can't, you can't get access to email and anything else.

No cheating.

Exactly. But I think that it's important for, for every member to, to plan vacations, to plan time. And the other thing from an analytical perspective is that it can't just be a 3-day weekend. It's got to be a week away. Because for me, because I'm go, go, go so much, when I go away for a week, it's not until the middle of the week that I'm actually starting to relax. And then by the end of the break, it's like, oh, I'm finally relaxing. So it's important to me to schedule vacations.

And how have you been able to coach people who are not coming to you, what, or might be a little bit more sensitive, or take your level of intensity and focus as a judgment on them instead of the judgment of the performance?

I have to get in their space. Yeah. Um, so we have, uh, and for me as a, as a, from a managerial standpoint, I have to know what makes them tick. And where their weaknesses are at. So like, we do one-on-ones on a weekly basis, and I typically know the weakness of the rep. So what I'm trying to coach them on is, hey, look, your weakness right now is setting appointments. So next Thursday from 1 to 4, we're gonna go out in the field and we're gonna cold call, and I'm gonna do 5, and then you're gonna do 5. So I think getting out into the grind and, and knocking down that wall with them helps bring the barriers down so they don't feel so intimidated. Because I know I'm a little intense. Just a little.

And has that ever gotten in your way?

Not for me. For other people, yes. But, you know, that's where I have to be a chameleon and I have to adapt and make sure that I'm approachable to, to the team on their level.

And how do you process the rejection?

There is no no in my vocabulary.

What is it?

Well, no doesn't exist for me, right? So if you tell me no, I just, I take that as from the standpoint that we need to overcome that objection. So no goes in one ear and out the other. So I have to figure out, okay, so the reason why you don't want to switch from AT&T to Verizon is because you're in a 1-year contract. So If I could get you out of that contract and save you fifty bucks a month, would would you be now? Would you be interested?

Yeah.

So I think it's overcoming every objection along the way, but you have to listen to the client and understand the current situation.

And what what was your most important lesson coming up in sales?

There's so many. I mean, it all depends on the time. One of the great managers I worked with was really good about creating a sense of urgency. So every proposal that you deliver, if you are just delivering it and you don't have it time-based, you don't, you're not creating any sense of urgency, then you wonder why you're not closing anything.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's, you have to, you know, be honest with the client, but then you have to give them something that is incentive for them That creates a sense of urgency.

Great. Hey, Mike, I really appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

They can jump on LinkedIn and see me there. And, or our website is saseens.com.

Well, what I got out of that was imagine being that consistent over that long period of Looking for each incremental improvement, coming up with your system, your process, your questions over and over and over again. Those reps, that's how we become great at sales. Too many of us, we waste our time on the latest tip or trick. Yeah, we all love tips and tricks, nothing against them, but they're not enough. You have to have this The mindset and the skill set. And in sales, the practice. Well, see, the only real practice is doing it. And that's too dangerous. It's too expensive. Because if we do not succeed, that's a huge cost. An opportunity cost, but a cost all the same. So preparation in sales is really our best practice. But how many of us really prepare? Be honest with yourself. Before you have your average call, how much time do you put in? How much time every day do you put into preparation? And my old saying was, and what I even told myself, how long did it take me to get this meeting? And it's usually an enormous amount of time. And how important is it? And we're all willing to After the meeting say, oh, I knew that was gonna happen. Yeah, that happens all the time. Okay, well, why not prepare for it? Hmm? I know, preparation is where— I've been doing this for so many years. See, in a performance, it doesn't matter. Does it matter how many times a pitcher has thrown a baseball? No, they gotta warm up. They gotta get focused. They gotta stretch out. They gotta think through. They gotta get intense. They gotta get their game face on. And I hope you understand that that's where the magic happens. It is not knowing the latest tip or trick or reading the latest book or having the little keywords that everyone talks about. Oh, I know that. 2 ears, one mouth. All your platitudes, okay, they're nice, but that doesn't help much when you're going to battle every day. Because when we get in front of our clients in person or online, it's showtime. Meaning that's how well you do it, not that you know how to do it. And everyone rolls their eyes when I say that, but am I wrong? Am I really?

No.

No, I'm not. If you want to become great at sales, it's a process. It's a level of consistency. We are the athletes, the real professionals in business. Everyone else can get away with attending meetings and faking it. But in sales, that doesn't get us very far. We have to get results. And to get results, we have to really get prepared because in the preparation, that's where you'll find the holes. You'll get warmed up. You'll loosen up. You anticipate what's going to happen. Because let's face it, how many times have we heard all the same things before? And if we're not ready with a way of guiding our clients to the next step, the next part of the process, They're not— they're lost. They don't know. Now, keep this episode, save it, and ask yourself, how can I apply this to my world? In the courses, I give you a framework or how to build your own framework and why it works. Too much of what I see on LinkedIn and all these, you know, failed SDRs It's robotic talk lines. And everybody wants the exact script. That's not the right approach. Why? There's too many variables, too much context. And everybody wants examples. And sometimes when I give an example, everyone says, oh, that doesn't fit my world. My world's different. My rascals never do anything.

Okay.

Okay, I hear you. That's why I don't give many examples. But we have to think it through. It's our job to be creative. I think a lot of people today want that script. And here's the problem with the script. Let's say it's a perfect script, the best in the world. You know, 100 analysts came up with it. ChatGPT created it, whatever it is. If it doesn't work, Who do you blame? Do you blame yourself or the script? I bet you blame the script. What's that tell you? Maybe it's how you say the script. Maybe it's the pacing, the tempo of it, the tonality of it. There's a bunch of things in it. That's why preparation is so important because when you start preparing, You're starting to practice in your head. Maybe you're practicing out loud. And when you hear what Mike said about a big meeting, he plans, sleeps on it, plans again, preps again, anticipates all the things that can go wrong, has questions to get people focused. I really liked how he viewed no and his answer to Hating to lose and then celebrating the wins. That's a championship mindset. And although you may say, oh, he's— that's my sales different, my person— that's okay, all good. But we still have to win. We're competing. And often it's the best salesperson that wins, not the best product. If you want to become great at sales, go to b2brevenue.com. Here's how the courses work. There's 2 major ones. Start the Conversation, Get the Meeting gets that pipeline full. Teaches you how to start conversations with a stranger that's not about the product, not about selling them. You need to talk with people first. So much of what we sell, the magic happens in the conversation. I had a great one-on-one this week where we were talking about the problem they solve, and the light bulb went on for both of us when it was not really around the product and even the problem it solves. It's like the alternative is so painful, and if you can get that person talking about the alternative, you have a beautiful conversation. This is what happens when you have Multiple heads looking at the problem. Somebody who's been doing this a long time, who has creative ideas. Because what I do is I put myself in the client's role and I say, what do they want to talk about? Now, the other course is Closing the Complex Sale. This maps out exactly how a complex sale works. And I teach you how to slow it down to get the deal done faster. Because there's certain pitfalls that I fell into too many times, and they're natural, and they're sometimes unavoidable if you don't know where they are. And it's about winning. And nothing gets you more excited about sales than winning, because when you're winning, you get that dopamine hit and you get a little money. Isn't that sweet? It's a nice side effect. We'll see you next time. Check out the Sales Questions Podcast. If you see my stuff fly by on LinkedIn, please give it a little like, a little comment, a little share. I'd be eternally grateful for you. We'll see you next time.