HOW TO WIN THE HARDEST DEALS IN B2B SALES

The hardest of the hardest sales is when you have really no market. The product hasn't really hit product-market fit, or anybody has ever bought it before. Imagine how hard that is. And it's not inexpensive, and it's not easy to understand. And it's a lot like a Rorschach. That's that psychologist's picture where they ask you, what do you see in this picture? And that's what you have to do. You have to start the conversation where they are and build it up. I think you're really going to enjoy this interview. Let's get right into it. I'll sum it up at the end.

Here we go. Hey, Ryan, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Yeah, really excited to be here. I just told you this, but I've listened to you for a long time. So it was, it was a pretty big boost when I saw the invite. So I've been in sales for about 13, 14 years on the personal side. I've got— I've been married for 6 years. I've got 2 little girls, Avery and Nola, and I've got another one coming here in a couple of months. So a lot going on in the household. I currently work at a startup. I've been here 9 years in the AI space, and we actually just announced a sale to Salesforce. So really a lot going on in the house. But yeah, so I've, I've been in the software sales industry for most of my career. Prior to that, I was in technical consulting. So I've got kind of a Long history in the software world.

Yeah. And why sales for you?

Yeah, it's funny. It was not a choice. So when coming out of college, I was a finance major and I had no idea what I wanted to do. This company, which is one of the leading financial software companies in the world, recruited me. I became a technical consultant. After about 2 years, I get called into the office by the SVP, great guy, and he just kind of sits me down and goes, you know, next quarter you're now in sales.

Okay.

I never had to interview for it. my technical skills must not have been very good. More on the customer side, but that's how I ended up in it. Why I'm still in sales, I get bored pretty easily and with what I do selling into every industry, we're creating a category, new product, every day is so different.

Yeah.

You know, the use cases are different, the problems are different. I haven't had 6-month period that's been the same or anything close to the prior 6 months in a very long time. I'm also super competitive, so always trying to get that next win, mostly with myself. So it's almost a curse, right? Where you have a really big deal or a great quarter, a great year, and it's just never enough.

Yeah.

You always have to go out and try and best it. So those are probably the two 2 reasons why I'm in sales and I love it.

And how was it transitioning? Because financial types typically don't go into sales.

Yeah.

Because they go into finance because they like things that are known and structured and predictable.

And yeah, it's interesting. I don't even know why I was a finance major. If we're gonna, if we're gonna like go to the deep-seated psychological side of this, originally I was supposed to be a lawyer. My whole family are lawyers. I took the LSATs. I was pre-law, political science, had the visions of being a trial lawyer where you're standing up and trying to convince somebody that your position is right. And then I didn't do so well on the LSAT, and I only had— my parents were only going to pay for about 2 more quarters of college, so I had to scramble. And my friends were going into finance, doing well, making a lot of money. So It's not a great answer, but I was never really a finance guy either.

Yeah, cool. And what's kept you at a startup for so long? That's a long run.

Yeah, long run. So I was the second salesperson, and that's a very unique role to come into. So I was like the 12th or 13th employee, and it's gonna sound cheesy, but I really believe like in the vision of what we're doing. The software that we have at the time had no— there was no peer, there was really nothing doing what we were doing. We were trying to unseat huge, massive status quo type players. And every year we got a little bit closer, a little bit closer, a little bit closer. So honestly, I think just the belief that what we were doing was, was worth it. And it was groundbreaking. And I work with a lot of other tech companies as partners and etc. And there was just nothing else that I've ever seen that got my kind of imagination, right, my creative side going. So it's just the belief in the mission. And also, I was at a company before that, great business, one of the most successful software companies ever, but you could predict every 5 years what your life was going to be like.

Yeah.

And that now, have a couple of good years in sales, you get a battlefield promotion, now you're running the team. And so you've probably heard that story before. So just the career, aspect of it was really unmatched inside. No regrets, but 9 years is a long time. And I just said, so we finally had sort of the exit, which big celebration, very rewarding kind of going through that process.

Yeah.

And what did you learn along the way? Because being the second rep, clearly there wasn't a brand awareness or even problem awareness.

Not at all. No, we've been, and we couldn't even show the product for the first couple of years, at least in the sales process. So I think what I learned was coming out of a company where big organization, 1,000 sales reps, where there was a culture and you get indoctrinated into here's how we do things. This is the way we do it here. And if you pick that up, you'll be really successful going into a company where there's no process. There's no one that can tell you what to do, what not to do. So I talked to a lot of people, talked to friends who had gone through it. And what I realized was I just needed reps and I needed to talk to as many people as possible. And our marketing team was great because we didn't know what our market was. And so what we said was, let's go to a lot of conferences. Let's put people like me next to our chief scientist, the brains behind it, and go talk to 500 people at a conference, at a booth. And you start to notice, oh, that guy didn't get it. She didn't get it. That doesn't fit. That's a bad use case. But then you hit on something. It's like, oh, that messaging worked. Or, oh my gosh, we just found this use case that we had never even thought of. And you play that out over literally thousands of conversations and you start to do pattern recognition. But really, you are the brand, you are the differentiator. And there was a lot of learning, we failed a ton in what we were trying in market. But once you find that hook, and you find the thing that works, there's nothing like it. Because you realize there's 1,000 more people that have that same problem we can go call. So that's just a lot of trial and error.

And what, or how did you discover that hook other than the pattern matching? And maybe what was the hook? Because I've been in that situation where you just have to come up with a good analogy or start them off at the right stage and move them up.

Yeah. So A little context. At the time, our main use cases were around process automation. So taking things that analysts do today, and then automating them 80-90% of the way through. But we had a very specific focus on automating language, narrative reporting. And so the initial hook was, hey, we can turn your data into stories. Isn't that cool? But it was all about the solution, right? So you would sit in a room and hallucinate for an hour over what, what could your company do, right? You kind of got nowhere. The hook was I came from the financial background. We had some financial people at my company and we sort of thought, where are people spending a lot of time doing the same thing, that process? And so we built up like a solution overview focused on the problem. You know, let's go talk to people that do this. How many hours do you spend? It's like, oh my God, like, okay, you spend 500 hours a year. How many yous are there? my company has 20.

Oh, okay.

Like you start to do the math, like what's your average salary, multiply that out. And so then we started calling on literally chief marketing officers of the biggest asset managers in the world. And we had no business doing this, but we said, hey, how much time do you spend on this type of report? Oh my God, all the, so much time. What if, what if it was 90% less? Well, you're smoking crack, right? That's not possible. And so that was the hook and we got a few clients on, And we just started playing that game over and over and over again. And we learned how to price it, we learned how to pitch it, the product got better because we were getting real client feedback. So that was really sort of the, the initial kind of rocket launch moment of finding that use case.

Yeah, because I think that first approach, which I used to call the Rorschach approach, where the product really didn't have a use case yet, it was more maybe an infrastructure play or something or a middleware. Augmentation, and you start saying all the things you can do with it and, and bells go off, but nobody has that dire problem right now.

Yeah.

How did you discover the problem?

I—

a lot of conversation, because I think what we found was our system had a long implementation time, so you couldn't go do a bunch of science experiments looking for use cases, right? You have a pretty good idea. We were lucky enough to have a few champions. So people who would hear the story and go, okay, look, I'm a buyer, I get it. Let's walk you through a POC process and I'm going to fund it and we're going to find a great home. And so we had a few people early on from very big companies that probably had no business working with us that believed. They believed in the same vision that kept me here for 9 years. they just believed in it. And so they really helped us. They held our hand. They actually got us into some programs with big systems integrators that literally would take companies like ours, match us up with big banks, big companies, and we just spent weeks interviewing people, listening to them, and then we come back with, okay, here's 5 things that we can do for you. And they just kind of picked. So we were very fortunate early on to have a network of clients and prospects that, that really just got it. Uh, and not everyone got it. This was, you know, a small percentage of people, but, uh, the ones that we had were just, were just wonderful. So it was really that partnership with, with the client.

So then it became easy, so you decided to move up into leadership?

For me?

Yeah.

Yeah, no, uh, so I didn't know this at the time, but everyone says don't take your— I'm not saying I was the top rep, but, you know, just don't take your best people and promote them right out of the field. But We had had a few people, you know, kind of in that role. And so I didn't ask for it. It was not something that I ever had even thought about, just like I didn't know that I wanted to be in sales. Sales leadership to me at the time was maybe in 10 years, you know, I have to be so ready. I need an MBA, you know, like all these thoughts go through your head and one day it's okay. As of 10:00 AM this morning, you're running sales. It was never even a conversation. So Just, I'd never asked for it, but it was a pretty amazing experience because you're forced, just like starting the company at the company, you have no idea what's going to work and you have no idea how to— I've learned all this stuff. I've talked to 10,000 people. How do you translate that to a team of SDRs and people that were my peers, you know, a minute before? That was such a situation I had no preparation for, but Learned a ton. And I've had kind of different leadership roles over the years. And I love it. But at the same time, getting away from contributing has been hard for me. Like, I'm— I've never not been a player coach, you know, I've always had my own book, or I've always had sort of a few clients that I've just held on to because I'm not ready to let go of that. But yeah, that was, it was quite the battlefield experience.

Because I kind of imagine that was hard hiring a rep who could take this type of product to market.

Very hard. Yeah. And we had, I don't know how many people I know are gonna listen to this, but I think at one point we always had like this running tally. I think we had 24 salespeople and most did not. It is nothing against them, you know, it's—

It's a different sell.

Maybe 5 out of 22 or 24 figured it out. So yeah, it was, if I had to go hire somebody again, it'd be super hard to do it, you know? it was easier to roll people underneath us so they could kind of learn and kind of do the same thing I said earlier, which is learn the culture, learn the approach, but it's tough.

And were you able to break it down enough to have like SDRs? Or was that just too hard?

We did. Didn't go super great. And the reason was, we have, we have the most amazing head of revenue now. He's amazing. Didn't come from sales, but he's been able to look at like processes from the outside in and look at every step of the puzzle. And so now we can do it. Now we know how to kind of break it apart. But at the time we just said, we have 5 reps that know what they're doing. We need more leads. Let's just go hire some SDRs. It was very kind of, we didn't know what we were doing at the time.

And what made you stick around that first couple of years until you hit the hook? Because I'm sure they were skinny years or difficult.

Yeah, uh, it's interesting. I, I think the skinny years, most of them were before I started, uh, because I started in probably year 2, 2 and a half. And it, to me in hindsight, it sort of felt like lightning in a bottle. Uh, my first 6 months were rough, uh, closed 1 deal and had very little pipeline. Uh, the, the next year, it was the best year I had ever had in my life. And the year after that was the best year I'd ever had in my life. The year after that was the best year I'd ever had in my life. And so it didn't feel hard. And I think that was honestly, for someone like me, I'm not really a scientist when it comes to selling. It's more of the art. Like, how do I feel? What feels like the right thing to do? I didn't do a lot of self-reflection on why was that working so well. And then you have a 4th year that doesn't go as well. it's really hard to step back and say, which piece of the process do you then kind of focus on? So that's why I stuck around because it was immediate. And part of that was the market coming around. Part of that was amazing marketing, amazing product people, but it hit really quickly from when I joined.

Yeah. So you kind of lean more on the art side of sales?

Yeah, for sure. And one of the questions I think you've asked people in the past is like, what are your weaknesses or things to work on? And I think for me, What works is just a feel for it, uh, and just kind of the 10,000 people that I talked to at those conferences over 2 or 3 years. It's training the subconscious, right? It's, it's not consciously knowing like, why did I say that? Or why did I do that? It's taking the subconscious and just running it through this incredibly painful process of like learning a new golf swing or learning a new shot in basketball. And for me, it allows me to go into conversations with prospects, clients, I don't have a script. I don't even know what our messaging is supposed to be. I don't even know what terms we're supposed to use because it's very interactive of, okay, Brian, like, let me get to learn like not just your problems and your situation, but like what language do you use so I can then kind of put things in terms that are going to make total sense to you. So yeah, to me, it's— I'm much more on the art side. I work with one of my best friends that 12 years, 13 years, he's a scientist. He can tell you exactly why he does everything. I can't tell you hardly anything of why I do anything. It's just a very different approach.

Is any of it written down or is it all just ingrained?

Yeah.

No, no, it is. I've been lucky enough to be invited to teach and present at a startup institute for a couple of years where I had to build PowerPoint slides to kind of explain it all. And It took a long time for me to kind of get to the point where I could do that. I had to ask, you know, my boss and I had to ask some peers like, how— what would you say about me? I had to do a 360 to figure it out. At this point, now I've got 3 pages of notes to try and explain it but for the longest time, it was not there.

Yeah!

And I get that because I have that same sense. I call it judgment.

Yeah.

Right? Because when you look at the 1,000, okay, you were starting a pattern match about people who get it, people who get it and have a problem, people who get it and don't have a problem.

Yep.

You know, by their reaction, the questions they ask, the eye contact they make, the, you know, the engagement you get.

100%.

Now, but I think you've gotten it long enough that you know what to work on, which is kind of It's a feel, but judgment's a feel, isn't it?

It is. What I've learned is, to the best of my ability, or best of somebody else's ability, how you can develop that feel. So it's, it's how do you develop that swing and that shot without having to— I mean, reading a book is one thing, listening to a podcast is one thing, but going out and, and putting yourself through the pain, right?

Yeah, I can tell you how to do a sit-up, but it doesn't give you abs.

Right.

You gotta do the setup.

Yeah.

And I've gotten to the point— Zoom is harder for me, but to the point where I'm in the room where there's nonverbal cues that I've picked up on that other people in the room go, I didn't see that. It's like, hey, that's our person. That's the person. They're— they can't wait to do this. I didn't see that at all. They didn't even say a word. I'm like, they didn't need to. Like, they were doing the thing and the thing and it's, you know, So I completely get it. It's, it's, you have to put yourself through that to train the subconscious side of yourself.

And I think you would even become better if, if you could articulate it, even put it on a picture, even if you can't put words to it. Because, you know, I always get the thing, it's like everybody wants to like take my time but doesn't have any questions. Yeah, they don't watch a video. And it's like, yeah, of course you want something for free.

Right!

But are you willing— are you really interested or are you just a time waster? Because I'm sure in your space, you— there was no lack of things to spend your time on.

No lack of time. The one thing that has helped me figure out my process and what I'm not good at, etc., is managing people and being a mentor because you're responsible for their success. And so, part of that is knowledge transfer and Not giving them all the answers because they have to go learn a lot of it themselves. That's been super rewarding. And through that, it's forced me to figure out how do I explain why you can't just tell someone what to do. You have to kind of give them the tools to do it themselves, but point them hopefully in a direction where they're going to have a similar experience that you had.

Well, let's dig into that because like, how do you ask questions Like during a forecast review, you know, they say it's commit or whatever the highest is. How do you determine if it's there or not?

It's a great question. So I have a, I have a history of not missing my commits. I will say that I've been highly accurate. I have found for 9 years now that the way that we always define our stages, in the pipeline do not map to how I think about it. So I've, I've always been very focused on where are we at in the client's mind? Where are we at in the client's buying process versus what, what was the last thing that we did? Like we did a POC, we did a contract, we did a proposal, right? So I think for me, it's Has this person shown the signs that they, if they don't do this, then something bad happens or they're foregoing benefit? And if I've had that conversation with somebody and we're in contract phase or we're in proposal stage, then it gets, it gets its stamp.

It's okay.

It's in the forecast. There's a number of things that get moved along in the process. And I've learned this over time where it's like those buying signs aren't there. They're probably going to buy at some point, but it's just not going to happen on our timeline. So that's the one part that I have applied some science where I take my feel to it and then I discount it and I look at, okay, what did I say was going to happen this time last quarter? What did happen? Okay, let's go back another quarter, another quarter. So I do track all of that, like a backtest of what did I say was going to happen, what did. And it's helped me discount against myself and build my own model to figure out where am I maybe getting a little bit happier. And my mistakes more so have been I get too conservative. I'm not trying to sandbag, but when I don't feel the connection with somebody and I don't really feel like we're there, but they're still doing all the things that they should be doing, I have a hard time committing to that or forecasting that. So More often than not, I come in above what I say, uh, versus the other side.

And it— which is a good practice.

Yeah, for sure.

Because I always used to say, you know, everybody loves a surprise and hates a disappointment, right?

Right. Yeah, yeah.

And if you, if you don't kind of be conservative, you're going to disappoint. And you're like, oh, I— you, you met it, but oh, we were expecting that other thing.

Yeah, and then what happens if you do that too many times is whatever you say, someone applies a multiplier. And now, and now you didn't even— you didn't ask for that, but that's what happens.

And, you know, do you map it out for your reps? Because you can't really teach a feeling. You've got to give examples, comparisons, uh, historical data. And I think what you did mapping or documenting your previous quarters as your best lessons?

Yeah.

So I, I think I've approached it in ways. One would be, we do game tape a lot. So I don't love— I love Gong. I think Gong is amazing and tools like Gong. But me being in a call where I'm in the moment, I can kind of feel, but I'm not really talking. I'm just there kind of observing someone on the team. I try and let people in those situations succeed and fail on their own. I mean, there might be a situation where it's okay, like we got to get the deal closed, I'm going to step in and try and help. But afterwards, walking somebody through like, what were you thinking at this point in time? Okay, what were you thinking when you said this? And I'm not just jumping in with, I would've done that, I would've done this, but kind of getting them to explain how they think. And so then I can explain, in this moment, this is what I was thinking, which is different than what you were thinking, Let's discuss the difference. That's one thing I do. The other piece would be almost like the lawyer side of, okay, let me cross-examine you to the point where you have to defend your thesis. Why do you feel so strongly about this? And the ones that get all the way through, you feel good about them. It's so often they crumble though on the first 2 or 3 questions. And That's a tough exercise to go through, I think, as a newer rep. But, uh, when you've sat in the shoes of somebody who's done it so many times, nothing's ever perfect. You cannot control the client, the prospect, you can only influence. And so there's just so many things that can go wrong. But poking all those holes, you start to not realize like you have to be better to answer those questions. No, no, you have to get the opportunity to a point where it's better qualified and you can do X, Y, and Z. So It's more behavioral adjustment as opposed to kind of dictation.

So is it like— what I heard was kind of like the debating, you can see both sides of the conversation.

Totally.

Yeah, because this is what a lot of people have a hard time with. They say the right things, but they're not connecting.

Yeah, there's a lot of gray. And then I have my other colleague I told you about, you know, he hasn't missed a forecast in 9 years.

Ever.

And, and he'll have stuff that it's not really a feel, but it's, Matt, like, why do you think that's gonna happen? Like, we're not even— we haven't even given a proposal yet. We've got 6 weeks left. He's like, I just know, like, it's this happened, this happened, boom, boom. And it just, it plays out the way that he says, like, 90% of the time. And it's much more fact-based as opposed to feel. So my point there is there's just more than one way to do it. So I haven't I haven't become so arrogant that, you know, you have to do it the way that I do it, but just trying— you're trying to give people the ability to create those feels themselves.

But I think— were your parents litigators, or what type of law did they practice?

Yeah, so my uncles were litigators. Uh, my mother was an attorney general, so more on the administrative law side. Defense lawyer early in her career.

Okay, because I'm sure when you were growing up, they were trying to make you see everyone's perspective on something.

Absolutely. Yeah, I think the empathy side, and honestly, for me, I feel like I'm almost working for the client as much as working for my company. And that puts you in some weird spots when you have to get approval on some legal term or for some contractual term, because if you know how far you can get your company to go, and you know how far you can get the client to go, you're basically just the person in the middle trying to make the connection happen. And so You do that once or twice, people go like, what's this guy doing? But over a couple of years, you kind of recognize things tend to work out really well. Yeah, no, I think you have to have— you have to have the client's mindset in your own head more so than what's good for your own company or your own pocketbook, etc.

Yeah, because I think that, you know, reviewing the calls is great because you can just simply ask, what do you think they're thinking?

Yeah.

What do you think the question behind that question is?

Yeah, it's actually funny because one of the things that I do, uh, when I have— I don't always do this very well, but when I do it well, I have a connection with a buyer or a champion, and it's very informal, very casual. I will text people right after calls like, hey, how do you think that went? Because my opinion frankly doesn't really matter that much, you know. I always text people when I have that relationship, hey, What do you think? How do you think that went? And shockingly, I've had calls, I walked away from it. This last quarter we had one, I was like, that was terrible. That was horrible. My president's calling me. It's— this is bad. We've got 3 weeks left. I text my champion, that was amazing. You wouldn't believe like the slacks that I'm getting. Like, and so now I know. And so when we get to that, like I'm getting cross-examined, I can stand up and say, look, It's closing. I have no doubt that it's closing. It's going to close at the value that I said it would. And they're like, it's no way. That call was so bad. But yeah, your opinion doesn't matter very much compared to what they think.

Oh, plus, once you get at the texting rapport level, that's a different level. That's much better than email, much better than voicemail.

Yeah.

When I give my forecast, oftentimes I'll tell my boss, hey, look, I'm texting with these people, I'm not there with them. And so my ability to forecast this group is very different than— this still might happen, but I have no idea because I'm not on that level, you know.

And what do you look for when you're hiring reps? What do I look for?

Uh, I— our culture, so kind of going back to my first job, we didn't have commissions at my first company. So I went, I went 4 or 5 years and I didn't know any better. It was my first job after college. So very focused on doing the right thing for the customer, for the problem you're trying to solve, but also teamwork. And maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, but at our company, we've always had like an amazing rapport across the reps. That's just kind of been our culture. So no one likes to hire assholes. Like, that's like a phrase, right? And so I've worked with some reps where they're amazing salespeople. They're more of the lone wolf, but they're incredibly difficult to work with. So I just— people who really want to be great, but they want to be part of the mission. Because at a startup, there's going to be things that happen that are out of your favor. But it has nothing to do with anything that you did. And there's going to be somebody that the CEO knew, now somebody got a massive deal that probably didn't deserve it because it just happened to be in their territory. You got to live with that. You got to be happy, you know, because over time it's going to come back around. So I would say incredibly talented with the, the, like, the competitiveness, but super collaborative, wanting to work as part of a team and, and not solely motivated by money. And that sounds weird, but money is the byproduct. And people who have that mindset They're gonna make a lot more money. So those are things I screen for because, you know, first interview, second question, like, what's your comp? What's your OTE? It's like, okay, great. I totally understand that you have to know that, but either have some tact or let's just see if there's something here. And that's the second conversation, you know. So there's— not sure that answers the question, but those are things I think about.

Cool. Hey, appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

LinkedIn is probably best. So name is Ryan Kurt, K-U-R-T. So I have 2 first names. Kurt's the last name.

Now imagine trying that sale without having empathy. How far do you think he would have gotten? Not far at all. Because what most people would have done was pitch, pitch, pitch, try and get the audience aware of what they do, not trying to find what clients in the market is doing and have the product work that way. That's a really hard sale.

That—

and this is kind of what I did early in my career at startups. There would be some functionality of a product, but they would basically say, uh, you know, go see if people will pay for this. And Yeah, sometimes you would, but most of the time people would get interested, maybe even a little bit excited by it. But the test is, will they apply time and money to it? Now, to be able to get this to scale, you have to learn how to win the large complex sale because most of us have a product that has product-market fit or services. And what we have to do is find the people who have latent or active pain with symptoms around that problem to start talking to them. But then we get interest, we get some urgency, and the deal slows down but never closes. Now, in the complex sale, this is the norm. This is not the exception. The norm is companies like it, want it, need it, can afford it, but they can't get it done administratively, politically, and they just put it on the pile of great ideas. And that's nice, but that doesn't help us because we only get paid if they get— if our company gets paid.

So it's our job to get that completely done, not just 80% done.

And that's what Winning the Complex Sale is all about. Take your career to the next level. Listen to the best salespeople in the world. Understand what you're up against. If you're in the courses already, make sure you're listening to the office hours and the one-on-ones, because it's not a static knowledge base. It's an evolving Knowledge base. I had this great one-on-one yesterday where we came up with a new strategy for them to get above their champion early in the sale. And how did it come about? I had office hours on Friday. I thought about it all weekend. I thought through how did I do in some of the deals. And I go, what really used to work good was this. And I shared it. So if you're in the course already, listen to that one-on-one. Uh, there's some really good strategy in there to get up above in the organization earlier so that you can start the political part of the deal sooner. Now, what if you have a great territory like Ryan did today and you want to go talk to more people without spamming and pitching and cold calling? Start the conversation Get the Meeting is the course for you. Take your career where you want it to go. Learn from people who are doing it well. Don't sit there and copy the people on LinkedIn or somebody who worked at one company for a couple of years and they fire him and now he's a sales trainer on LinkedIn. No, what you want to do is have success and not just rely on a gimmick. Go to b2brevenue.com, check it out. We'll see you there. Thanks for listening. Tell a friend about the show.

An idea and recommendation if you want to take advantage of this.

And it's crazy. This week, this week I'm full of meetings. I was like, what's happening? And like, I, what I did was I baked in like I just, I'm very generic and people are like, oh, like, like, tell me more about you. Like immediately I have like 3, 4 meetings. Like I already had 2 this, and, and based on the, on the, on the parameters that you suggested for me, like, oh, go after these bigger companies, X amount of employees. So then by the time I'm talking to them, I already know that. Okay, they they typically have budget. I mean, assuming link correct with the employee size. Some of it was was off, but it's like okay, there's still like a deal. It can it can still happen. And but yeah, I was like whoa, this is like I limited to like thirty connections a day. So then that way it's not like it doesn't go crazy because I remember one of the reps. So do about thirty a day. Like I said, like this week. 4 or 5 meetings, and, and, and they're good meetings, you know, and it's just conversations. Like I say, it's not about like pitching, but it's about working them up to that point where it's like, okay, yeah, we do need to advertise.

So after teaching this for quite a while, here's the steps that you should take. Take the course once, quickly through it. Find both one-on-ones and office hours that speak to the persona that you want to talk with, whether it be the CEO, the CMO, CRO, developer, marketer, whoever it is that you want to talk to. Because we break it down in gory detail. We break down the persona and what they care about. And then try each step. Try it with your friends. Try it with your coworkers and start to see the results. Now, most people will fight me on it. They'll spend the first month, 2 months, trying to make the system fit into their pitchy email and cold calls, and it works a little better. But it works a whole lot better when you apply it because each step and each pause in between each step has been designed over time to be very effective. And then when you start to see the results, all of a sudden people are replying, people are asking you, people are wanting to talk with you, want to understand what you It's almost turning cold outbound into warm inbound. Now, are they in market? No, no, they're not. But they're a little curious. And it's up to us. And I show you in the course, how do you build off of that? Instead of us telling everybody how great we are and hoping they can understand why they need us. And instead of them arguing about why they don't need us. Because until you have active pain, everyone's in denial. Think about going to the doctor. Okay, you kind of know you need an operation, but you're like, can I get a prescription? And the doctor's like, he has to ease you, or she has to ease you into the process. Well, let's take an x-ray. Let's see what we're working with here.

Oh, can I—

how about just a shot? Can I just get a shot till the next time I come in? Then he flips the x-ray up on the light and he points to something. He goes, that's what we're dealing with. That doesn't heal on its own. You have to have surgery for that. He has to build up to that. Until we build up that latent pain into active pain and properly diagnose it and get people to think about what happens if they don't have that operation, they're going to avoid it at all costs. That's why the cold pitch doesn't work. You're just igniting the denial. You're not igniting interest or curiosity. It's just denial. So check out the course, start the conversation, get the meeting. It's all at b2brevenue.com. There's an overview video in the show notes. On my YouTube channel and on my LinkedIn profile, pretty much everywhere I am, as well as the website b2brevenue.com. Check it out if this is what you need. You know, this student, zero sales experience, but really, you know, just gobbled up this. And the people who gobble it up the fastest and the best are people who try it and get success. It has Nothing to do with knowledge. It's like learning how to do a sit-up doesn't give you a 6-pack. You have to do the sit-ups. They're not fun at first, but then you get used to them and you start to like appreciating them. And then you start to get the connection between how you look and what you do. And so you start doing the things that make you look better. This is what we have. It's not just knowledge. It is applying it, taking feedback, polishing it up, and applying the system to your clients.