HOW TO WIN THE VALUE VS. PRICE CONVERSATION AND WIN THE DEAL

One of the ingredients that we run into all the time when we're in the commodity trap is price versus value. The client wants us in the commodity trap because once we're there, it's easy for them to decide. They pick their favorite color, the lowest price, the route of least resistance. What we need to do as reps is sell them the right thing. Have them focused on what they really want to accomplish, not just one element of the ingredients of what they want to accomplish. And this price versus value conversation is one of the performance traps that I've worked with Brevity on. And it is probably increased revenue for each client well over 5%. After 1 month of practicing this for 5 minutes a day? Maybe, maybe it's worth 5 minutes a day to increase revenue. Or you could do what's not working more often.

Hmm.

It's up to you. Sales is a performance profession. The only way to make more money is to perform better. Yes, you could do more hours, or you could become better at it.

That's what we, that's what we really mean when we say work smarter.

But it doesn't sound that way. Everyone thinks they work smart. Let's get into this interview. I think you'll enjoy it. If you're looking for more meetings, more conversations, go to b2brevenue.com and check out Start the Conversation, Get the Meeting. Also go to brevitypitch.com And get on the waiting list for Brevity Play. It's a free 30-day evaluation of a subset of the Brevity capabilities that you can use on your phone. No username or password required.

Frictionless.

Let's get into the interview. I'll sum it up at the end.

Here we go.

Hey, JC, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Thank you, Brian. Very excited to be here. Happy, happy for the invitation. My name is JC Powell. I'm a Vice President of Sales for Boone Edom, who is a manufacturer of secured entrances where we provide our clients with the value of knowing who's in their buildings and keeping employees safe.

Yeah. Is it a fun sale? It must be. You've been there a while, huh?

I have, yes. Going on, let's see, a little over 13 years now. And, you know, it's every day when you, when you enjoy what you do, it's not work. Yeah.

What do you like about it? What's exciting about it?

Well, to me, it's about the customer and every customer, even though they have similar wants and needs, their stories are all different. So you get to understand the inner workings of a company and how companies and how people buy. And to me, that's the journey. That's the fun part of sales is really understanding how they buy so that you understand how to sell.

Smart.

Yes.

Where'd you come up with that curiosity? Because most people are like, how do I sell so they buy?

Well, you know, it's funny. Like most salespeople early on, I thought it was just God-given talent, right? I thought it was all me. Had a sales trainer about 8, 9, 10 years ago that asked me a singular question and said, why do people buy from you? Why are you successful? And, you know, we all have to look inside to figure out why do people buy. You know, people buy from people. People buy from people that they trust and they buy when they're willing and able to buy. If you haven't given them the right incentive, the right value proposition to spend their money with you, then they're not gonna buy from you. So for me, it was really going back, you know, you always hear, oh, salespeople should listen more than they talk. Yes, that's true. But I always ask, what are you listening to? If you're not asking the provocative questions to get beneath what every other salesperson, your competition is doing, then you're just one of many.

Yeah. And let's dig into that. What are some of your go-to questions?

Oh, it's great. So because we're in a security field, right? So we're physically keeping unauthorized people out of buildings, out of institutions. So we deal with a lot of security personnel, you know, chief security officers, things like that. You know, one of the most provocative questions I think you could ask, and you have to be careful how you ask it, is if something happens, do you lose your job?

Yeah.

You know, it's about being emotional, right? And when you can, when you can, it's not selling on fear, but it's selling on the reality of emotions. And it's getting to the right personnel that can answer those questions. If the guy you're talking to says, no, it's not me, it's somebody else, then you're not talking to the right person.

Do you ask it that directly or do you—

No, no. Yeah, you got to soft pedal that one a little bit. So, so one of my favorite questions to ask in our line of work is, so if you're the security officer, Brian, I would say, how many unauthorized people do you, do you think is acceptable in your building? And if you tell me anything other than zero, I know you're lying to me.

Yeah.

So you start, you start walking them down their path to my goal. My goal is to drive revenue and to secure their facilities, but they have a path, a journey that they have to go down.

And how do you keep out of the commodity trap?

Ah, there it is, right?

Certainly you sell a physical product, right?

Is that true? Yes, sir.

And probably other people sell similar but different.

Similar but different. That's exactly right. And certain products can carry a commoditized label to it. I think a product becomes commoditized when you, you as a professional salesperson don't do enough to create the value and what the experience that that company, that organization is going to get from utilizing your equipment. If you come in as a salesperson and you know the phrase show up and throw up and you start talking features and benefits, everybody has features and benefits. That's what commoditizes a product. But when you come in and ask provocative questions about what is your ultimate goal, how do you go about protecting your people and making sure that they get to go home safe at night? You really listen and understand how this organization buys, how they want to, to leave a legacy behind for their people. Look, I mean, you know, the job force now, people want to go to places that are safe. They want to feel safe when they're at work. That's just as important as free coffee, as nap pods, as whatever it is. It's the feeling of being safe and secure at work.

And how long did it take you to become good at this? Because I'm sure that year one, JC shows up, reads the brochure, memorizes it, and runs as fast as he can towards the chief security officer.

Yes. So it's funny. It's been a— it has been a journey. And I keep using that term, but that's what it is. When I first started, it was, it was about volume. How many people can I see? It was a numbers game.

Yeah.

And the older I've gotten in my sales profession, I have learned that if you slow down, it's the old story of the tortoise and the hare, right? If you're going so fast that you're not asking the right questions or you're not looking at the right prospects, if you're not looking internally at your pipeline, then you're gonna miss, you're gonna miss the shots that you should be taking.

Yeah.

So I have learned as you slow down, I would say that it took probably about 3 years.

Yeah.

You know, and it was probably about a year after the sales trainer and I was skeptical, you know, I was like, oh, sales trainer. But certain sales professionals can walk you through the methodology of it as opposed to just say, here's what I think you should do, lead by example. And that's where I really draw my inspiration with managing and coaching and developing my team is lead by example. Not afraid to go get on a site. Matter of fact, I'd much rather do that than sit behind a screen and stare at numbers all day anyway. Yeah. Love the people.

And I, I gotta imagine you go in, they want to commoditize you, at least at the beginning. It's a thing. How much does it cost? Yep. You know, how do we implement? What are the differences? How do you get them off of that?

So again, it starts with a line of questioning. You know, everybody, everything costs something and cost is always important, but it's got to be important at the right time. If somebody is asking about price, the very first question of the meeting or the, you know, getting together and building relationship, then they're probably not in the right mindset of where they should be as a buyer. We're all buyers, but you know when you got a seller that can work with a buyer and can ask the questions to create that emotional tie, it's all about creating tension in a in a in a sales call, right? You you raise the tension and then you let it fall, and then you raise the tension and you let it fall. And it's it's an artwork, and there's there's certainly no one way to do it. I believe in creativity, and everybody is their own person, and that's way they that that's the way that they should sell. But when people start asking about price, I usually counter that back with another question and say, well, how much do you think it costs? And that gives me an idea of where they're at in their head and what their budget might look like. And if they say, oh, well, you know, I think that this security entrance is, you know, $10,000. Well, in fact, it's $100,000, then we're way off.

Yeah.

So we have to then peel that back a little bit and say, well, how did you get to that $10,000 number? And then you got to start building the proposition value. The value proposition off of that.

And where are you typically in the market? Are you at the high end, the medium?

We're at the high end.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

So you really got to build that value up.

That's exactly right. Yeah, we don't sell commodity products. So every opportunity that we get to talk, you know, we don't talk money right out of the gate, right? Because unless that's where the customer wants to go, and if that's where they're wanting to go, then you need to understand why is it. Usually when we're talking to somebody, there's some companies that are very curious and proactive, and there's other companies that are a little more complacent and they don't change until they have to, which means there's been a trigger of some sort. And then that's when people tend to spend money, uh, a little more emotionally.

A breach of some kind?

An event of some sort. Yes, sir.

Yeah. And what are those typical breaches or events that get people's attention? Is it a robbery?

Is it, um, Well, you know, we live in a, in a, in a world today where there are active assailants every day. You know, it used to be called active shooters, but now there's multiple things. It's domestic violence in corporations. It's intellectual property theft. I mean, it could be any number of things. You know, I have, I have a very good client that they started on their journey because they had some overhead projectors that were stolen. And it was somebody just hanging around waiting for somebody to come out, grab the door before it closed, walked inside, grabbed what they could find, some laptops and projectors, you know, maybe $10,000 worth of equipment, and walked out the door with it. Yeah, to them that's a breach.

And how can you tell in that first meeting whether this deal is gonna progress or they're gonna go with the minimum that they they need to fix the urgent problem?

Yeah, it's a great question and it's not always easy to identify. But I think if you're talking to a prospect and they are focused more on the today value versus the long-term value and the strategy behind it, they're much more willing to pay for a lesser solution.

Yeah.

You know, and it's like with most products. I mean, if you look at the car industry, you've got ranges from economical to extravagant, right? And not everybody can afford to drive an extravagant, extravagant car. Some people just need the car to go from A to B and back to A again. They don't care about the, the luxury, the feeling, the, and all of that. So I think when we're talking about Boone Edom product to our clients, It's really about making that emotional connection and tying the value of their actions and their spend back to their culture of their company and legacy that they want to leave.

And does this responsibility typically get delegated to somebody who doesn't have economic power or even technical decision-making power, where they're kind of like gathering information, you know, the RFI guy or girl that kind of like does a market study and—

You know, the internet is a great thing, but it can also be a very dangerous thing because everybody feels like they can be an expert. And, you know, where we really come in and try to separate ourselves is we are experts in what we do. We do it every day. You don't, Mr. Customer. You're, you're off doing other things, but we're part of your overall security puzzle. You know, we're not, we're not gonna solve everything, but if you put the right jigsaw puzzle together, you'll have an appropriate security plan. So yes, there's always delegation, but it also depends on where they're at in that cycle. If it's, hey, I'm kind of curious about this, let's have somebody do some research, go to a trade show, get a bunch of brochures, that kind of stuff. Okay, fine. And then as they move through, it typically escalates up, but it depends on the company.

Yeah. And what's your strategy there? How do you You know, because they're nice people, they may answer your questions, but you know, they're not really caring about you versus somebody else. All they care about is, okay, does it match the minimum requirements and what's the price?

That's right. So, you know, everybody wants to compare apples to apples. Well, even apples to apples aren't always the same, even the same type of apple, right? They're different shapes and sizes and taste and all of that. So I always try to— when I'm in front of a client, I try to ask again those questions because what I never want to do is take a no from somebody who cannot say yes. If they can't say yes, then they're not allowed to give me a no. They can say no, but I'm going to keep asking questions in a respectful manner to try to get to that next level of authority. And, you know, typically when you come in, as long as you are not, it's about me and my wants and me selling a product to you, and it's more about them and their journey, and you can do it from a consultative and an educational standpoint, they're gonna, they're gonna remember that. Now, that doesn't mean that it always works out 100% of the time. You know, we've all had, we do all the work and somebody else gets the spoils of the effort. But that happens. But you learn from that and you learn those triggers. And that's just something that comes with experience.

Yeah.

And how did you develop this curiosity? Because that is kind of one of the things that differentiates the best from the rest is the people who start thinking like the client.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, again, it goes back to some of the sales training that I've had and just really taking an inside look as to why does my phone ring, why do I get an order, and understanding that there are certain drivers That you can really start putting pieces together, whether it's by vertical, whether it's by product type, and you really create those playbooks. And I don't— I think if you're not curious, Bryan, then you're missing out on half of the fun of sales because if you just try to go in and bang your head on the door and just sell features and benefits, it's gonna be a hard day. Because again, everybody has features and benefits.

Right.

But what, but what your competition doesn't have, my competition doesn't have me. And that's where I can differentiate between the commodity, differentiate between the price, differentiate between a lot of, of nos is because they don't have me. And that, you know, and my salespeople are the same way. And that's what I try to tell them every day is you are the difference. It's not necessarily the product. Because people buy from people.

And everyone says that, but a lot of salespeople who don't get it don't understand what it means.

It's true.

Because they're people. Everyone's people. But, and how do you differentiate yourself?

So I explain that to folks saying, look, if we have something where we have a large delta between us and the competitor in price and somebody is willing to create a global standardization on our company, on me, on the service and the support that they're given, right? It's about not leaving your customers behind. I'm never there just for a sale. I'm there for a relationship. You know, that sale is important, but it's the long-term business that I'm interested in because there's always a lot more that you're gonna get down the line and they're gonna leave and go someplace else and take you with them. The product is important at some point, but I do believe that the salesperson is as important as the product in that process.

Because they're looking at this because currently the current situation isn't secure enough, right? There's some dissatisfaction there.

Right.

And you're probably up here, you're at the higher level. Do they understand the issues or are they really trying to not understand the issues?

I think, I think, Brian, for the most part, they are trying to understand the issues because look, even, even in corporations where you take a chief security officer, he has to take this idea and sell it up the food chain, right? He has to sell it up through the C-suite. So a lot of times we spend, we spend, you know, an exorbitant amount of time with them helping prepare them to sell that up through to create their own value proposition within their organization. So it's not just a matter of them saying, yeah, I think this is great. Now they've got to get the buy-in from the executive level who really has no clue about what this is. And they have an image in their head of, oh, well, I don't want this to look institutional or like a prison. It's like, no, well, you know, there's architectural finishes and they're built in using architects and they're placed properly and, and they really can enhance your facility. So it's a matter of doing that and you do that by several different means.

And do you get them focused on the cost of not doing it? Because that—

Of course.

Yeah, that's typically a lot more expensive than—

Well, that's it, right? So as we said earlier, cost is important and the cost of doing something, right, it can be outweighed by the cost of not doing something. And what does that lead Towards, right? And, and where we sit with it being a physical security measure. And if, if an evaluation, if a penetration test has been done on a facility, and it's a legal document, and then they choose not to do something and something happens, it's a legal document saying, you knew where your gaps were, you knew where you were vulnerable, and you chose not to do something. So there is a cost to not doing it. And, you know, with some of our products, there is an ROI factor to it. So we have to you know, build that into there so that they can sell that up. You know, it's, it's, it's a fixed cost versus a recurring cost of using armed guards, you know, that are humans.

Or liabilities.

Or liabilities. That's right.

Because if an employee gets hurt or dies, you know, you may have liability insurance, right? But that doesn't help the other employees feel safe.

No, it doesn't. And it's, you know, it's something about brand damage, right? You know, things that can cause Now we see a lot of it today, not because of that, but because of other factors where, you know, corporations are— they'll spend a lot of money to try to change the narrative on bad publicity. You know, somebody once said any publicity is good publicity. I don't agree with that. I definitely want it to be good publicity. And we have several instances and stories that are fantastic where our products have helped Stop something from happening, and those those are the types of stories that you know they don't necessarily want to advertise that. But those are the types of stories that are good for companies to know that there are devices in this world that can help keep your people safe.

And have you become really good at like doing a pre-meeting drive by the facility to kind of see what?

Oh, look, it's you know. When you talk about what separates, you know, top performers from just salespeople, it's all about preparation and planning.

Yeah.

And, you know, if you're not planning your day, then your day's planning you. And preparation, yeah, there's lots of times. I mean, if you're going in for a big meeting, go in early, go in the night before, drive around the facility, see if you— heck, in our case, I'll try to walk in, see what, how, you know, not necessarily how far I can get, but just what do they already have in place? But if you don't have time to do that, you know, a salesperson, there's a playbook. So the moment you pull into the parking lot, you should start gathering intel. How many parking spots are there? You know, that tells you kind of how many people are in the building. How's their lobby decorated? Tells you what type of aesthetics they might be interested in. What's the receptionist or the guard service like? Are they inquisitive? Are they, you know, on their phones? What does that look like? And, you know, you should just constantly be building that case in your head so that, you know, that's the That's their environment. Use their environment as part of the sales call.

And so many reps don't take that into consideration.

No, it's run, run, run, run, run. And that's where I go back to the tortoise and the hare. Slow down. Just slow down.

Because, I mean, because you've brought up a lot of scenarios that I, I'm guessing that they're not thinking about.

I would say not all of them are thinking about that. Correct. And, you know, luckily for us, I don't think a lot of our competition thinks that way.

Because, yeah, because I gotta believe they walk right into the commodity trap all the time.

Yeah, there's a lot of, you know, me too type syndrome from we can do exactly what they do, but we can do it cheaper. Okay, well, it's one thing to say you can do what somebody else does, but it's another thing When the rubber hits the road and you really can't do it. And, you know, that you may lose a few deals on that, but over time that'll catch up to them. You know, the experience won't be great, the response won't be great. You know, people have asked me, why do you stay with— why have you been with this company for 13 years? Well, I've seen this company spend way too much time and way too much of their own money to ensure that the customer has a level of satisfaction after the fact. Because there's nothing worse than buyer's remorse.

Yeah.

That'd kill future deals.

And what creative things have you done to kind of keep that engagement going? Because I gotta believe after that first call, they think they've got everything, but they don't.

No, no. And then, you know, that's sometimes I think salespeople get what's called happy ears and they hear what they want to hear in a sales call and they think, oh, This is great. It was a great meeting. They gave me 2 hours. So, but what did you accomplish in that 2 hours? Do you give them everything in the first meeting? No, you always leave something so that they have to come back. You know, you're not going to deprive them of, you know, information just because you want to— I want them to call me back. But there's ways that you can creatively create those tension moments so that they think about it after the fact. And they're like, really would like to know more about that. So, you know, some things that I like to do is a peer-to-peer. I'll let my other customers talk to them, tell them the goods, the bads, the uglies, the pitfalls, walk them through what the scenario, what the situation looks like. Sometimes that's the best salespeople that, that you can have is your, your own customers.

Right.

Because they're not gonna appreciate the differentiators for a long time. It's not gonna be day one.

No, it's definitely not day one. Day one in our world, day one is like flipping the world upside down because somebody walks in. Now there's, you know, it's like after 9/11 and you're, you're getting on a plane and you walk up and there's all this TSA security and you're like, what in the world is this? It's the same thing with, with our customers. when they go live. So what do we like to do? We like to be on site when they go live to answer questions. You know, that's not something that we charge for. It's not— it's just part of the experience, part of the journey.

And how much is it of personal wins for them? Because I gotta believe that's part of it, or is that not so much?

Yeah, I think there is a piece of that to it, right? So it goes back to a legacy. And when somebody's with an organization for a while and they want to leave it better than they found it. You know, there are certain things that they can do. Um, you know, the pandemic really made a lot of our customers look—

I want—

I'm going to say smarter than they, than they are, but I don't mean that in any offensive way. But the devices that they put into their facilities allowed them to close entrances and funnel people to one main thing without having to post guards. They've still, you know, life safety— you could leave but you can't come in. So in hindsight, it was like a win-win, not knowing that there was a pandemic coming around the corner and how do you navigate that. And so there were a lot of customers that looked, you know, it was a very bright spot for them proposing and the C-suite signing off on it because it really did save a bunch of companies a lot of money.

Yeah. And what makes a great sales rep in this space?

Yeah, well, I think we've mentioned it a few times. It's curiosity, right? It really is. But it's also having a drive that is more about your customer than it is about yourself. Look, we're all important and we all have families to take care of and things to do or we want to do. But if you're not in it for your customer, Then it doesn't matter what you're selling. I think it does. And to me, it doesn't matter if you're— it doesn't matter what the widget is you're selling. You can, you can take something that could be the biggest commodity in the world and add value to it. Well, because it's you.

That's it. Because the client wants to do the right thing, but they don't know what the right thing is.

That's right. Yeah. And the problem is they're dealing with salespeople. You know, I say as a sales manager, the hardest thing to— the hardest part of my job is interviewing salespeople. When you're looking to hire, because what do they do? They sell and they know themselves the best. I mean, everybody, everybody should win an award for their capabilities. But you have to get creative when you're even doing that. And I think it goes to the sales side as well. You have to be creative to get people out of their comfort zone.

Yeah.

Whether it's an interview process or it's a selling process, if you can get them out of their comfort zone in a way that They'll open up. They'll, they'll walk you right to where you need to go.

Yeah.

If you'll just listen to them and ask the right questions.

And, and have you found a little trick to do that? Maybe a tour of the facility or to kind of get them moving out of the conference room or alone so that their, their opinions aren't judged by peers or—

Yes.

To a client and, you know, another client site to have them see it in action.

Yeah, I think a peer-to-peer site visit is always a good, good tact, right? So they get to go see a live, you know, a lot of our equipment is not readily accessible by the general public because it's in data centers, it's in secure facilities, it's in this type of stuff, and people aren't just flaunting it. But there are ways to even do it at their own facility. So if they'll give you permission to, you know, say, hey, we've got this entrance, this hallway that we want to do, and they'll allow you to take pictures, you can photomorph things in there to give them visual images of what it would actually look like. I think that, I think one of the greatest skill sets that a salesperson can have is when whoever you're meeting with picks you up in the lobby and they're taking you somewhere and it's noticing their environment. Are they a, are they a call center with a bunch of cubicles? Do they have data rooms inside there? Is it open area? Is it all offices? Is it stairwells? Is it lots of exits? And, and just ask again those provocative questions, not Don't talk about, don't talk about yourself. Don't talk about your product. Talk to them, ask them questions about them, get them talking because what do they want to do? They want to talk about themselves too. Then you can start weaving the story around how your, your solutions, your products can provide the right solution in their different environments. And then you kind of relate it to, well, you know, I have another client who's similar to this, and this is what their experience has been like after doing that. So yeah, there's tricks and things to that, but it kind of depends on the site.

And have you— do you have the ability to kind of visualize the deal from start to finish once you start meeting and talking with people, like a chessboard?

Yeah. So it's interesting. I read something earlier today, and it's funny you say chess, about a, you know, remotely leading people is like playing chess in the dark. And I can imagine that's very difficult. It's an intriguing topic. But yes, I do think that there is some visibility that you can see how it should play out now. But I think in order for that to happen, you have to be able to recognize where those potential pitfalls are and walk them through the pitfalls.

Don't—

not necessarily avoid the pitfalls, Address the pitfalls and say, "Here's what could happen if you don't do it as soon as possible." Right? So we always we always use the term. I want to race to the no, and that could be K N O W or N O. I want to know that this is going to be a great application for them, or I want to know that they're not going to do it because I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to waste their time. So I'm always trying to race to the no.

Yeah.

On the no part, can you kind of sense in that first call they're not gonna spend the extra money for this?

Yeah, okay. Yeah, there's some certain tells that people will give and they'll kind of tip their hand a little bit. Um, but, you know, I don't, I don't believe it's over till it's actually over, you know, until I get, you know, it's, it's kind of that definitive, um, punch to the gut or, you know, something like that. It's like Mike Tyson always said, everybody has a plan until they get hit in the face, hit in the mouth, right? And until you get that hit, there's still a plan that you're trying to work. And, you know, you're leveraging other entities within your organization to try to figure out, okay, have we worked with them in other parts of the world? Can we show, you know, success from that standpoint? And then, yeah, sometimes it's just straight up, You know, not everybody was, was, you know, should, should drive a Maserati.

Well, that's it. You know, it may look externally like a good match, but you get in there and it's like a bunch of new people. All they care about is money. You know, they're not really emphasizing security. They just want to check a box.

That's right.

And you're like, do you really want to go through a whole process to find out the obvious?

No. And, you know, and sometimes the, the best lesson that they can learn is by doing something that doesn't work out in the long run. You know, those are, those are sometimes the best way to learn. You know, if you think about growing up, you know, your parents can tell you what you should do, but you're like, ah, I know better. Well, no.

Um, well, that's it because the chief security officer, I mean, they must get a million requests a month. I can't imagine products and things that they should buy to be more secure. And the physical stuff may not be as glamorous, but it's just as important, or if not more important.

It's all, it's all important. What it comes down to, Brian, is how they assimilate all of it together, whether it's a software, a forensic level of surveillance, or a physical layer of surveillance. You know, one without the other is just one without the other, right? But when you put them together in the right way, it creates a very robust program. And so yes, they are constantly bombarded, you know, and that's, that's even the thing, you know, prior to the pandemic, you know, you went and saw people and then pandemic, everything was email and now everybody's flooded with emails. Well, guess what people want now? They just want a phone call. They want to talk to a live person. That's right. So pick up the phone and call. Don't, don't, don't just be another one of those, oh, I'm going to send you an email with features and benefits. Now let's—

Cool. Hey, I really appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

So website is www.boonedam.us and All of our contact information is there. We have some great case studies and white papers and things like that. But if you'll just go to the website, you can find us. And any of us would be happy to reach out and help you solve your problems.

Thinking like the customer. Isn't that nice? That's kind of the type of empathy that I see in the best salespeople. But think of the psychology behind it. If you're under pressure, are you thinking like your client or are you thinking like a salesperson? And I keep saying to people who comment on my LinkedIn posts when they put their platitudes and their sales talk, I go, when you sound like a sales rep, you get treated like one.

And how do sales—

how do people treat salespeople?

Pretty poorly. Why?

Because we act like pests.

People hounding and pushing and prodding and touching base and checking in and just wanted to get an update.

That's not selling. That's not rapport building. It's rapport breaking. And I had a little epiphany on the office hours yesterday. I asked the people, I go, why do people not want to talk to salespeople? And everyone laughed like it was obvious. Yet we do all of that. Meaning that, do you want to talk to a salesperson? I'm sure you get calls. I'm sure you get emails.

You go, no, I know what I want.

I know what I need.

That's what they're thinking. But do they?

Well, think of all the needs that you have.

Latent needs.

Believe me, I've got a ton. And I'd like to talk to people about them.

I would. I'd like to investigate them. I run a business. I'm thinking about all kinds of things. But is an email going to get me to do that? Uh, Not really. Conversation will. Talking to an expert in the area. I don't want to get into a sales process though. I want to learn. I want to understand. I want to investigate. I want to see what the best people are doing differently than me. I want to take the stuff that I do today and make it easier, faster, better, higher quality. Cost?

Yeah.

I'll give you an idea of cost.

Now, you're listening to this podcast, obviously.

Now, when I started it 14 years ago, I picked a hosting company. I'm not sure why I picked the one I did. I don't even remember. It was 14 years ago. I just needed my podcast hosted. And I think I picked the company that looked like the easiest to use. But that company didn't turn out to be the winner in that space. Then I got into this conundrum of I have one podcast on this legacy hosting company and all my other ones on what everybody else uses. And I go, do I try and switch it? What happens if it doesn't transfer correctly or if it doesn't take all the listeners and the reviews and it isn't I didn't understand it. I wasn't that technical, and nor did I— it looked simple. It did. And here's the thing. The new hosting company is 1/4— no, no, 1/5 the price. It's easier to use, better statistics, better everything. The other one, they lost the war. And they were just holding on and they were telling me they're shutting down. So I had to move. I waited till I had to.

And believe me, it happened recently, just this week.

And I was scared to death. I could barely sleep that night. I go, what happens if my 14-year investment in building an audience and sharing content all of a sudden didn't show up in the directories and on the players or didn't show up correctly? And then what do I do? And I had contingency plans. I have like the, the best of feed, but that, that has like 1/100th the listeners as the core feed. What does this tell you about selling and value and price? Change. Change was the obstacle. It wasn't cost. It wasn't hassle. And the change ended up being— Incredibly simple. So it was all emotion on my side, 100% emotion. It went pretty smoothly. There was like 5 steps I had to do on my new hosting company and 1 email to my existing.

And he was very happy to do it because I think I was his last customer. And it was scary being there because like, You know, the user interface hadn't changed in 14 years.

Clearly, I should have done it a long time ago, but it was just too much risk. That's what our customers are going through. We've got to walk them through that process. The logic is one side. The emotion, that's why people change. In this case, I had to. Now, let's say this was a B2B sale. And all of a sudden, I walked the person through that change. Hmm, that would have done it.

And I've got a bunch of those things in my life, don't you?

Things that you know you should be doing but fearful. Now, if you want to become great at sales, it's not a tip or trick. And I get about 5 in-mails a day on LinkedIn. Can I get 5 or 10 minutes of your time? I'm having a real hard time prospecting. And I push them to the course telling them it's not a tip or trick. And maybe 1 out of 20 signs up. So clearly they don't want to solve the problem or they don't understand the problem. See, they think it's a tip or trick. They think it's a better subject line, a better call to action, or you know what the other sales trainers go, oh, have our webinar today.

We have 15 Proven cadences or sequences.

If they were proven and worked, they wouldn't be giving them away on a webinar because it's a skill. It's not a tip or trick. Tips and tricks work if there's demand, if there's already interest out there and you just haven't found it yet. And today they find you. You have probably, what, a week or 2 window between their active need and they find a solution, or you have to hit them before they go to Google and try and find somebody else's solution. And guess what? They want to be in the commodity trap. They have all the power if you were in the commodity trap, but they don't get the product they want and need and will appreciate a year or 2 from now if they don't hear about it.

Learn how to build conversations. It's a lost art. It's something that parents don't teach us. We don't learn it in school. Sales trainers just show us how to do stupid-ass cadences where, oh, you know, one year it's personalization, the next year it's relevance. Well, clearly it's not working because everyone's doing the same stupid things. Be smart, be creative, be different.

Learn how.

Now, let's take the other side of sales. How many of those deals closed? Hmm. 80% seem to be going to no decision. That's curable, preventable. But you have to understand how companies buy. Nobody knows.

I do.

I'll teach you how. Because this is the other comments that I get. Oh, well, you got to respect the buyer's journey.

The buyer doesn't.

Their journey is bumping into things, going for the cheapest, the easiest, the most convenient, the less immediate risk, not long-term. But in B2B, we have the value because the company has Priorities. Each individual has priorities, but they're also scared. They don't want to make a bad decision. And it's our job to work and walk them through that journey that they don't even know they're on. They think they can just go onto the internet and pick something out, it'll show up, and all their challenges will be answered. Maybe for a day or two, but not long-term. Take your game to the next level. Go to b2brevenue.com. Sign up today. Invest a year in yourself, the most important asset you have. That money is— what good's it doing in the bank? It's nice to be there, but why not take it and get 10, 100, 1,000x ROI on it?

That's the smart people.

That's the opportunity cost. Think about what you're making today versus what you want to make, can make, could make, will make. We'll see you there.