HOW TO WORK SMARTER - NOT HARDER

With this podcast, I've promised you I'd bring you nothing but the best salespeople in the world. And today we have one of them. This one even surprised me. This rep basically hit me up on LinkedIn. And when I do my post looking for the very best salespeople to be on the show and nominated a lot of his friends, and then his friends nominated him. And I looked at the LinkedIn profile and I was like, ah, this, this should be okay, I guess. I don't know. I don't know if it'll fit into, is it really what It wasn't a B2B sale exactly. He was selling to high net worth, mostly doctors, which I guess they have their own business, but it's much more of a one-on-one type of sale. But let's give it a try. I had him on and it kind of blew me away. I think this is one of these episodes that you should listen to once a month, once a week maybe, because the whole idea about becoming great in sales is not grinding more. The grinding more burns out. I'm a big fan of working hard. I work super hard. But the problem is we only have 24 hours in a day. And we always try and steal from that health part, you know, the sleeping and eating well, and give it to the working hard part. And then it kind of spirals downward. The difference between that and working smarter, figuring out the puzzle of how do you get more sales in the same amount of time with the same amount of effort, doing it smarter, getting rid of the low productivity activities and focusing on the highest productivity activities. And we all kind of know this, but what, what ends up happening? Is there a single manager that really allows this out there? Very few, unless they really trust the rep that the rep knows what they're doing. But this is what I try to do in every job because I see the grinder and they do okay. They maybe make their number, but I want it to blow the number away. I look at the comp plan, it's all back-end loaded. All the gravy is at the end of the meal. So we have to get big deals. We have to get more of them. We can't be wasting our time with things that don't produce anything. But what's the mantra today? If you go on LinkedIn, it's all about subject lines and gimmicks to get a meeting instead of starting a conversation and changing someone's life, helping them solve a particular problem, getting in and changing how a company does these things. And that may seem like it's a little advanced, but that's where the gravy is. It's leading Clients through a process, helping them through it. It's not this push and pressure. And I hope you've sensed that with these reps. And it's not like I interview ones that have that approach and I don't, you know, share them with you. I share just the best, the very best, and none of them are like that. So there must be a little cause and correlation here for us. And what I try and teach in the courses is what's the smartest way of doing it, how to anticipate Anticipate the result of your action now. So this is the job that we really have as reps for ourselves. And yes, sometimes it will rub the organization the wrong way because it doesn't fit into the crazy cadences and activity focus today. Nobody can really measure sales intelligence, but they can all measure sales activity. So, I hope you enjoy this interview. I'll sum it up at the end and share some of the distinctions, how you can take it with you. Now, do not listen to this with a closed mind saying, oh, that's sales different than mine. It is. I get it. But there's always a smarter way of selling. It's not the numbers game that we all think of. Let's get into it.

Hey Sean, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Oh, no problem. Uh, so I have a unique background. Uh, I've always been in sales. Uh, however, I spent a significant amount of my time in, uh, in consulting. So I think that's a huge advantage, especially, uh, in the arena that I've been in for a long time and intangible sales, where it's connecting with people and using psychology and understanding who you have in front of you. So a business degree, and then later on, a master's in organizational psychology. And my friends at the time said, I don't understand, how does, how does that work together? And I said, the fact that you don't understand that tells me that that's why you're not a salesperson. So I think it is all about people. And I take almost a therapist's approach to dealing with whoever's in front of me.

And who do you typically sell to?

Um, well, anybody that's willing to listen to me, right? But for the most part, it's, uh, people that, uh, are high net worth individuals, uh, large egos, uh, doctors, surgeons, people that have limited time. I've actually, uh, picked a vertical, uh, where I'm setting up my own obstacles. So, uh, limited time, people that know everything, But that's everybody, right? I, I make it, I make it difficult. I like a good challenge. Um, but, but it's, it's for what, uh, I offer, what I can do for people, uh, is, is the main issue why I'm in that vertical right now.

And why'd you choose that? Is that where the money is?

Um, yeah, money. I'm not gonna kid you, money's important. But I also like to be happy. I believe in work-life balance. I used to do turnarounds where I was leaving on Sunday night and coming back 10 days later and going to some god-awful places. I won't mention them. And really working hard with a team of people, boots on the ground, to drive EBITDA and get it positioned, get the business positioned for resale. Very difficult, very rewarding. However, I was missing out on the things that are most important to me, which is my wife and my daughter and having some sanity. So I got into this because I needed to make a change and I made a list for myself. What are the 3 most important things in the next job? And the first was autonomy. The second was a true opportunity. Let me earn it. Let me make it into something. And then unlimited earning potential. Those 3 things. And I landed, I landed with TSP Family Office a little over 6 years ago.

And what's the hardest part of your job?

Probably, um, people. Um, you know, is it prospecting?

Is it, uh, cutting through the BS initially?

Yeah, that's a good question, Brian. The— originally it was finding somebody to talk to.

Yeah.

Um, and when I started out, I was basically given old, what I call boneyard leads. People that had called, just a database full of thousands and thousands of people. And I knew that I would just pound through that, get my chops, get the marbles out of my mouth, get somebody on the phone, try to turn them around and get them interested, you know. Uh, and I spent the first year and a half of this job doing that. And then from that, I cultivated the relationships with the clients so that they can do the selling for me. So now they're referring people. I do 100% referral business. I do not do any outbound marketing calls at all. And I thought it was interesting in looking at what you're putting out there for people to see. I had that in mind when I first started. I said, you know what, I'll get in the trench for a year and a half, and I'll give myself a year and a half. to get to a certain point with a benchmark. And then from there, I'll leverage that and move it forward to be in a position today where I have my clients actually selling for me. Not literally, but figuratively. It's a much less obstructive sale today as it was before that. Prior to that, it was all hustle, banging on doors, being smart, Paying attention, um, dealing with competitors, so on and so forth. So at 56 years old now, I've reached the point where I think every salespeople should have an opportunity to be in this position, but make no bones about it. I created this. Well, this was a master plan.

Well, that's it. I've always looked at it as like the kingpin strategy where, right, like bowling, you don't hit one pin. You try and hit a pin that's going to knock down the most other pins.

Correct. Right. It's, it's the same. I've heard the same thing with the pebble in the pond, right?

Yeah.

Throw the pebble in, it's one ring, and it becomes 12, 14 rings like that. And it, it does, it does ring true. Um, I think that, um, working smarter and not harder— you, you initially, yes, you work hard. You have to get your chops. You have to get in shape. Um, you can't teach instincts. You can't teach time. So, you know, that coupled with the fact that I really don't whiff on things, I don't miss things very often. If I do, it's a surprise to me because, as you know, there's only about 7 or 8 things somebody can object to. And if you are selling preemptively, you're taking it off the table before they get there. So just Strategic in sales. And I think that's what I see missing in a lot. People just don't spend time thinking about how am I going to do this?

Yes. They just assume if I do enough of it, something will happen.

We'll make it up in volume.

And, you know, that can work if you're 25 and, you know, transactional.

Yeah.

And you got all the energy in the world and you don't have many bills.

Right.

But as you move through your career, you're like, that's no, that's not much fun.

It isn't. Um, it isn't. Um, and I think as you mature as a salesperson, Brian, I think money is always, um, important because you have a certain lifestyle. But I think there comes a point in a salesperson's journey, if you will, that other factors become either equally as important to the money or even more important. True. For me, it's important, but it's not the most important thing for me, uh, at this point. It's about being able to do something for somebody and do it in a way with complete and utter integrity.

And you have to have that in your space.

Yeah, absolutely.

They assume you're a crook, or because you're touching their money. Right.

There's, there's, there's an, there's an elevated level of trust. It's not like I'm dealing with somebody that doesn't have an emotional attachment to the money that's going to be spent. Yeah. So a purchasing agent, somebody like that, that's, you know, that's a much different angle. And I've had to do that in my government days when I was dealing with pricing and bidding and things of that nature. There's no emotion involved at all in that. It's just about building a better mousetrap.

And this is what a lot of people in similar spaces like yours don't get. Like, like real estate, high-end real estate.

Sure.

Right?

It's all about referrals and networking because anyone can show the house, right?

Right, right.

You didn't build the house.

Nope.

You don't own the house. You're simply the network or the person facilitating the sale of the house or the buying of the house.

Correct. It's about the experience that they create for someone and the way that they're making somebody feel, because it's an emotional purchase. I love, um, sales and buying that are driven and really dictated by personality and emotion because of my background. I wouldn't be very good at having a kiosk in a mall.

Right.

Um, and just transaction, transaction. I like the whole enchilada— the meeting, getting to know them, getting under the skin, what makes them tick, what's important, finding out all of those things. Because in essence, I'm able to correlate what I do with what the doctors do on a daily basis too, right? I'm assessing, I'm taking x-rays, I'm going to give them a treatment plan. So I can use the language, and we know this in sales, that depending on who you're talking with, you want to use certain terms to make them comfortable. There's a direct correlation between medical professionals and what we do with financials with them. They're sick financially, and we need to make them weller. And they have to take the medicine to get better. So there's a certain level of responsibility on the buyer's half to participate to a certain level. It's not like they wake up the next day and I just saved them $350,000 on their tax bill. They have to participate to some level. So setting that expectation for someone that doesn't do this for a living, doesn't want to be bothered with this, That is a challenge that I'll go back to your original question, getting people to understand what their role is once they've committed and holding them accountable to that. Because we all know they're going to hold me accountable to what I promised, right?

And I'm sure they're looking at you like a doctor or a lawyer where you— they picture you as a magician, where they give you a check and they They want you to just make the problem go away or income come in.

That'd be nice. Yeah, it's true.

They—

and again, you know, it's all set up by, you know, how much time they actually have to allocate to these things. I tell my clients, look, I don't expect you to become an accountant or even become, you know, well-versed in this, but I do expect you to take an interest in your money. That's why else would you be working? Um, if it wasn't important to you, you'd be doing, uh, you know, pro bono work in a third world country somewhere. So let's, let's buckle down here and let's take a look. The, the other challenges is that people wait. They wait too long.

And it's late.

Yeah, I don't, I don't really get guys or gals that are, you know, 38 and they're just starting out and they've got all the time in the world, and that makes a world of difference. Because they can, they can go low and slow. They don't have to be aggressive. They don't have to— they have much more options, uh, and, and different avenues that they can take to get the same results. So yeah, I hear, I wish I did this 10 years ago a lot.

And how long did it take you to kind of figure out this referral model or, uh, pebble in the, the pond model?

I guess after getting punched in the face enough, you learn how to box, right? So, um, It was, it was about a year and a half, about 18 months. And I figured out there's this, you can't, you're gonna, you're gonna end up quitting if you continue to do this, because you're just gonna sit there and, you know, I can buy a list like that and dial through the old D&B or whatever.

You got the internet, the list is no longer the obstacle.

Right, right. It's, it's being able to connect with people.

Yes.

So, um, what was interesting, uh, Brian, was that at that year-and-a-half point, I had the luxury of seeing some other people that were, uh, in the same role as me, uh, that were doing some of what I'm doing now, but not at, not at the level that I'm doing it. And for me, it just jumped off the page to me saying, okay, when somebody starts, yeah, you give them training wheels, you let them get their chops and stuff, but where is that point where you're willing to say, you know what, company, I don't want any of your sponsored leads anymore, I'm cutting the cord, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start? And that's what I did. I took a chance, I took a step off the cliff. I said, no more company-sponsored leads, I want to— I'm going to do this myself. And I just started, and I put a plan in place I figured out how I was going to do it. I did all the monkey math, right? I reverse engineered it. And then on all of those conversion points, I figured out how do I increase my odds to up the conversions, right?

Right.

So that's where the skills came in, because I could have all of the knowledge about taxation and how to save people taxes, but if I don't KPIs are useless without KSAs, right? You have to have the knowledge, skills, and abilities. So skill, the selling skill and the conversations and how to move them forward in a way that is not salesy. I always tell the guys, don't get caught selling, right? Don't— just help people. If you're helping them, you're not selling, right?

Because they smell it immediately. And people turn off because there's so Then you're in the commodity space, not in the partnership space.

Sure.

Expertise space.

Right, right. I would agree with that. But about a year and a half, and I really, when I took the job, I said, I've got a 3-year plan. At the end of 3 years, I need to be making what I'm leaving right now. And I was willing to do that. So we had a family meeting. And we decided that, hey, I was 50 years old. I said, this, this is going to be my last job. It's giving me, given me the 3 things that I want.

Yep.

That's all I need. I need an inch, I'll make it happen. And so far so good. So, you know, I'm, I'm off and running. Um, but it did take about a year and a half before. And, and from there, it— I keep honing it. I keep, right, honing it and honing it and honing it to the point now where— and just to give you some, some idea, um, I bring in around $2 million in new business every year. That equates to anywhere between 20 and 24 clients. Last year, we do a consultation or a presentation virtual, which is the point where we show them, and this is the business case. Last year I closed 92% of those.

Wow.

Yeah, so that's— and it's because of all the work that's being done up front. Don't wait until you get into the demo or the consultation to try to sell or convince or even introduce anything. Do all of that one-on-one. What we're doing right now has changed the sales world. I can sit in somebody's living room. In fact, I suggested to them, well, we could meet at 4 if you want. You know what? Finish your day, Doc. Go home. You and the wife sit on the couch, grab a glass of wine, and we'll talk. And that's how I'm doing business with them. Now, I work some crazy hours, I work a lot, but I gotta tell you, I don't feel like I work. Every day is Saturday to me.

Yeah.

So if it's 10 o'clock on a Friday night, it's 10 o'clock on a Friday night. If it's a Sunday afternoon, it's a— the other people who say, oh, it's Friday at 5, I'm gone, are gone, are gone. And if you are not completely flexible and accessible to people, you are just narrowing your funnel, if you will, to create more business and ultimately help more people. So—

Well, that's it, because so many sales leaders are pounding the numbers game. And that I've never seen work. You know, I've been doing this forever. If, if it worked, I would have seen it work.

You'd be doing it, right?

Right.

But we all start with a numbers game, right? We start with a list, start with A and go to Z, right?

Sure.

And then after a couple of months, you're like, there's got to be a smarter way. They're doing better than me and they're not doing this.

Right?

It's like a detective. Who is most likely to want what I have?

That's right. If you, if you target your audience and, and come in there, and that was part of what happened in this job. I saw that one of my colleagues was having tremendous success with dentists, uh, and, and leveraging that from one to the other to the other. And I said, okay, what's like dentistry where they make more money and I can show more value? Uh, you know, a physician, a surgeon, you know, so I set out to identify that market again, knowing that I would have obstacles in front of me. However, there are other people that are consistently helping physicians in some way or form— products, services. So there's got to be a way that people are doing this that are successful. So I started to look at what's the best way to get a physician's time, what are the tricks of the trade there, and I went to work. And, you know, I heard a wise person once say that salespeople don't spend any time thinking during the day. And it's so true.

Oh, cut it out.

Every day I spend a good 2 to 3 hours reading, researching, listening about a number of different things that are directly related to me, my clients, and what I do, or Somewhat related to it because I find there's a lot of transferable skills, actions, trends. Um, if you just sit there and dial and dial and dial because somebody's in there, you know, whipping the horse, that's not sales. That, that's, that's— you can hire anybody to do that.

It's a commercial.

Yeah, it is a commercial. It's not what it's about. It's about making a connection with somebody, being sincere and honest, and really believing that Look, when we all meet someone that we know is a potential client, we know at the handshake whether or not— if you're good, you know at the handshake whether or not you've got a very good opportunity here, right? I'm not saying—

And what are you looking for? Because I'm sure there's the people, the know-it-alls, the I'm all set.

Honesty. Yeah, honesty. Somebody that owns their problem. If, if they don't own it, I— it doesn't matter what I know.

Yeah.

And until, until the client knows that they have a problem and it's bothering them and they want to do something about it, it's my job to bring that out if it's not overt. So bringing that out allows me to, you know, not, not jump on it immediately, but to take my time and kind of walk down the hill And find out the— I have a very good friend of mine who always says it's the want behind the want.

Yes.

So in my case, everybody would like to pay less tax. But the real question is, what does that do for you? What does that actually do for you? What does it do for your kids? What does it do for your comp? What does it do for your practice? What does it do to your status? I mean, what's important to them? We're just going to get you what you want and get you to feel the way that you want to feel. By way of saving you money on taxes and building wealth and those types of things. So it's, it's, it's about those things. And if we concentrate on the person, then all of the rest is just nuts and bolts, right?

Yeah. See what sales— most salespeople, they concentrate on what they do, not what they do for the other person, what the other person gets out of it.

Correct. Yeah, I would completely agree with that. And I would tell you that it's, it's much more satisfying in my position when somebody comes around and says, wow, you know, that was great. Now, I'm, I'm someone that gauges all the way through. Some people use kind of trial closing as they're working with someone. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm doing is I'm, I'm getting The barometer, you know, how is it going so far? Okay, I always ask somebody when we first meet, how do you learn? How do you like to communicate? Would you want to go first? Because I'm comfortable being sitting back and listening and just inserting, or I can drive. And a lot of that is determined again at the handshake. Do I have You know, what kind of person do I have? Do I have a— you know, I'm going through my personality square, seeing what I have, uh, and then determining how to approach it. Again, it's critical thinking and then having a strategy. And when those strategies are, are just good habits, then you've arrived. Then you have arrived.

I got to imagine that every high net worth, high income individual has at minimum latent pain that you can solve.

Absolutely.

They—

how do you get it to be active? Is it really trying to get where they want to go with their financial life?

Um, you know, and it varies. There's different degrees. And that's, that's an excellent question. Sometimes I just do it, you know, I can't even explain what I'm doing. But if, if there is latent pain, I always try to take them back to why we started talking, and that's the first thing I'll ask somebody. You, you know, you're, you're a potential person. Okay, Brian, so why are we talking tonight? What are you hoping to learn from this conversation? What would you like to leave with? So I'm always about setting the expectation. And I'm a— I pull, I don't push. So I'll never ask for business. And people say, well, you have to ask. No, you don't have to ask for the business. You don't. You don't. In fact, when you do that, you're not going to get it. So, um, I, I want people to buy. So the way that I've approached sales in this job or any other job is my job is not to sell something to somebody or for somebody. It's to get— it's to provoke thought. for them to gain confidence in the potential solutions that I have and get them to buy from me, not for me to sell to them. Big difference.

Big difference.

Um, and, you know, we're talking about, you know, items that are $75,000 to $100,000, uh, sale. That's a nice size sale. It's not million-dollar systems, but I'm dealing one-on-one with a person, not me and a panel and 7 other people coming in with their bids. And it's a much different animal. And I, I really think there's more margin for error because you, you have to be sharp 24/7. You can't— well, I'm tired, or I don't feel like that. You, you have to be your best because you will not get a second chance. My competitors Don't mess up and let me slip in.

So— I've got to imagine it's also a highly competitive space.

It is highly competitive. And that's what I like about it. I like being able to differentiate. I like being able to be different. I look at it as an opportunity, not a threat. So when— if you were doing kind of a SWOT, um, you know, the competitors for me are opportunities, not, not threats, um, especially if you know who they are.

And how do you approach the referral? Do you initiate it? Do you— what's your—

So, so typically what'll happen is, um, part of my process is, uh, we're a service organization. So once they're in service, There's a fulfillment group that works with them to implement the strategies and do that. And I still have a relationship with them. So I have like a 30-60-90 touch that I do. And instead of just taking one email and blasting it out to 40 different people, um, what I'll do is I, I give my personal cell phone to everybody that becomes my client, uh, and I text or, you know, I'll send them a picture or— I'll call them. I mean, doctors, I'm not going to get them on the phone between 8 and 5, so I might send them just an email like, hey, would love to catch up soon, just checking in on you and the kids and your wife, how you doing? And, and it's something like that. But every single touch that I have with a client includes, hey, if you run across anybody you think might be a good fit for us, please. I'm always asking, but I'm not asking, I'm just mentioning it. And it's amazing how many times in my tasks— I'm pretty organized, OCD to some degree— that if I've got 14 people to contact today as a touch, it's amazing the percentage of people that will respond to me from that with, yeah, I think I might have somebody that would be good, or, or I just get an email where it's an introduction, a double introduction to somebody. So. That's how I drive my business by just doing what I say I'm going to do and gauging and measuring their experience, how they're feeling, making sure that we're delivering what we promised to deliver and then some. It's this constant tilling of that soil so that I don't work outside of my own farm.

And you're not treating it like a transaction.

It is completely not transactional at all. It's the furthest thing from it. In fact, anybody that's in this space that typically fails is doing it— is not taking the personal approach and is trying to do it like they're buying a phone or, or something off the shelf.

Free.

Or a commodity. They're making it a— this is a value. This is value-driven. sale. So I think obviously it's important to explain to somebody how their $75,000, $80,000, $90,000, $100,000, $110,000— what is that going to do for them? Why is that a drop in the bucket compared to what we're going to bring to the table? Oh, and on top of it, Mr. Client, you're also going to get rid of that, that albatross that's been haunting you for the last 20 years. And so, you know, it's, it's an interesting dynamic. And it, again, you can make it as hard or as easy as you would like in the position. I had this vision of, you know, this 3-year progression to get to a point where I would— my activities are the ones that we're discussing right now. They're not cold calling people, calling organizations, trying to penetrate this, trying to— It's really about putting yourself in a position where you can be selective. Um, I always thought that I have what somebody else needs and I don't need to be desperate. And, um, we really need to make sure that anybody that I'm recommending to come into service not only has the nuts and bolts where it's a good fit and a good business case, but they also have to be the right type of person. As well. They have to— whatever is important to them has to be important to us. We have to be aligned in that. And while we're in a service business, uh, we're not subservient. We consider it the difference.

That is the difference.

Yeah. This is not a glad-hand sale. You're not going to nice somebody into saying, give me $100 grand.

Yeah, right.

In fact, you've got to be— and think about the, the, the people I'm working with— you've got to be blatantly honest and frank. with them. And for me, my personality, that works perfect because I don't have time to tell stories and sugarcoat stuff. Look, you've got a problem. I've seen it before. I know I can fix it. Let's, let's, let's roll up our sleeves and figure out the best way to do this.

And how did you not get stuck in the trap of acting like a salesperson, sounding like a salesperson, thinking Like a salesperson?

I think it really comes from my consulting background where you are teaching people to fish. So you can't really give them answers or ask an answer, ask closed-ended questions. You have to facilitate them coming up with the answer. So the consulting background really helped me become much better at asking good questions, not just asking, asking good questions that have a purpose to them. I know where I'm going or where I'd like to go with it after asking a question. So the consulting that I've done over the years, and there's— that's Sales 101 because you're getting, you're getting people to do things, right? You're exhibiting leadership, you're You're in people, you're getting them to change. That's sales. It's just not, here's my widget, yours is $4, mine is $6, but we have—

Mine's faster.

Right. It's not about features and benefits, right? It's about connect again, connecting with somebody at a level where everybody's okay, we got our t-shirts and shorts on now. We're, you know, the gloves are off, we're gonna get to work. There's nothing pretty about business. It's a raw, raw thing. And if you're not honest and okay with being uncomfortable or being criticized or speaking up or even arguing, it's— those aren't bad things. Those are very healthy—

Mm-hmm.

And productive things. It's about how they're presented, uh, you know, how you— your, your cadence, your, your volume, uh, your mannerisms, all of that counts. It's not just some magic word soup that gets people into a trance and they start signing contracts.

That's it. You're not the ShamWow guy where you know you got a microphone on the side and you're demonstrating a product. And hopefully, you know, 1 out of 9 closes.

Yeah. So one of the things that's really interesting, uh, is, you know, when people— we're the only society in the world, in America, where somebody says, well, what do you do? We tell them how we make a living. Everywhere else in the world, they might say, well, you know, I play basketball, or I like motorcycles. Here in the States, we tell people how we make money, what our living— that's just our society. So I've always thought it was pretty cool to think about how would you— if somebody asked you, what do you do? What would you tell them without getting into your 2-minute drill, your elevator speech, the mantra? And it's real simple. And if you can come up with something that's quick and provokes thought— I fix people's tax problems, period. So person typically says, oh, like What, or what are their problems? The problems that my clients have is they pay too much. Not that they don't pay at all. Yeah, they're paying too much. Yeah.

Well, for all the people out there that pay too much, where should they go to connect and follow you?

They could, they could find me on LinkedIn, Sean Scope, S-C-O-P-E, like the mouthwash. Or they can go to, uh, our website, tspfamilyoffice.com. Thank you for the shameless plug, Brian.

Now, that doesn't fit into any particular sales strategy that you're taught before now, is it? Oh yeah, we're all taught referrals, but how many of us get so good at it, it becomes our snowball of business? There's an art to it. What you want is people proactively Referring you. And if you built this into your process, maybe it fits your sale, or maybe there's another way of doing it. There's always a smarter way. I've got another interview coming up with— that's completely different but equally as smart. And that's where the gold is. That's where the fun is, when you spend your day working on the highest probability stuff because it's self-fulfilling. Sorting, self-selling in a lot of ways. And I did this several times in my career because I looked at the grind approach— take the phone book and work A to Z— as just such an annoying waste of time, so ineffective. And I used the, the detective census taker analogy. Now, a census taker goes door to door asking the same questions. Every door is equal. The transaction— that's what a transactional sale is. The detective goes, who is most likely to have committed this crime? Who had the most to gain? If they go around checking out every possible person, what's the likelihood they're going to find the criminal? Near zero. They've got to use their time with what is most likely have committed the crime and build up a case around it. Look for clues. That's a detective. Now, if you take the census taker, which is the traditional sales approach, is it fun? No. Is it effective? No, most likely not. Why do managers love doing it? Because it's not Them doing it. When some— do you care how hard someone else works? Why would you? And if they work for you, don't you want them working hard? Now, if they told you, oh, I want to work smart, what it sounds— what you hear is, oh, I don't want to work hard, as opposed to, no, I want to find a better way. And as sales leaders, that you should encourage this, look for it, because somebody on the team is finding a smarter way. That's what my courses are all about. It's not the numbers game. It's how do you do it in a smarter way? How do you reverse engineer the problem of starting a conversation and getting a meeting? It's not a pitch. Everyone thinks it's just a better pitch. No, you've got to break it down and put it into ways you become known, liked, and trusted with your market. And then it scales.

But it sounds like— still sounds like work.

Yeah, yeah, sorry. Yeah, it's— there's no button to make me rich yet. So check out the courses at b2brevenue.com. There's a link in the show notes below. There's a video on the YouTube channel. There's a video link on the website as well as my LinkedIn profile. So you can find it many different places. And see if the courses fit your sale. If you're in B2B and you want to crush your number and become better at what you do, that's what the courses are for. It's not how do you be just like everybody else. Everybody else is the census taker. And if it's working, okay, good. Stick with it if you like it. I'm not trying to talk you out of it. I'm trying to show you A smarter way. A lot of people don't want a smarter way. They're like, I, I like to come in and pound the phones. Okay, you can do that, or you can talk to prospects and clients and build your business. Do it today. Make sure you tell a friend about the show. If you see my stuff fly by on LinkedIn, give it a little like, a little comment, a little share. Got a bunch of other podcasts out there if you still like more sales— sales questions, brutally honest answers. The Best of The Brutal Truth, The B2B Revenue Leadership Show, and The Sales Leadership Show. Check them out. We'll see you next time.

I was just going to give a bit of a testimonial if that's all right, just to kick it off. Just positive.

No, it is positive.

It was a— yeah, um, just because I started the course I think in June of last year, 2021. I got a few more months left of access, which is good, um, but I feel like it's been a transformative experience in my own personal and professional life. I was able to go from a period of a low sales slump in the middle of last year, in the summer and early fall, and then really was able to then come back and exceed my target by the end of the, by the end of the 4th quarter. And so the only other thing I would say is that it's also really differentiated me amongst people on the sales team in terms of focus. and clarity of what's important. And now I feel really good about what I'm doing in terms of the approach of reaching out to customers and having those conversations and being focused, as opposed to just doing a lot of the other busy work on the side, like organizing resources and doing business analytics and all this other stuff. And so it's really been a noticeable difference with our executive team at my company. And so I just want to thank you for the content and for the these opportunities. And so I hope that helps if there's anybody new. It's— I'm a work in progress, but it's getting better.

Good. Yeah.

And you're selling pretty hard stuff.