THE #1 THING THAT ALL THE BEST SALESPEOPLE HAVE IN B2B SALES AND SELLING

One of the things that I see in all the great sales leaders or salespeople that I interview is that they have a process. Now, the word process triggers a lot of salespeople. A lot of people think it's a rigid step-by-step sequence. Um, that's kind of what your company thinks the process is, or how the world should work instead of the way the world Really works. I look at process as defining your game, your sale, your own process. There's a sequence to it. It may not be rigid. In most cases, it should not be rigid, but there should be an objective. There should be some steps. Like every sales conversation has an opening, a little bit of rapport building, A couple of questions, get people focused, and then have a next step. Now, that seems really simple, but what ends up happening to us once we start talking to somebody, we tend to get into rapport with them, a flow state with them, hopefully. And then if they want to do something, we tend to agree. And a lot of times that's okay. But most of the times it's a trap, meaning that the client doesn't know what they want to do. They have feelings, they have their own instincts that they're going through. And most people, the instinct is always to wait. It's risky to change. It's risky to spend their time, their money. And so they— what ends up happening, you get into the commodity trap. Where you're just a thing that costs money and they forget what they get for that money. The value and the cost are not connected. They're disparate. They don't see the value. They feel it a little bit, but they don't want to see it. Remember, people hear what they want to hear and disregard the rest. Including ourselves. We're filtering machines, and we filter to serve our unconscious feelings, to feel safe and secure. Notice it when you try and buy something large. You waver. You pivot back and forth. Why? Because you get conflicting feelings about it. And everybody says, oh, I don't make decisions off of feelings. That's 100% logic. That's overconfidence. Let's get into this interview. I did have a couple of technical issues with it that I had to edit it out, so it might be a little choppy at points, but it's really good because this guy is working in what you would think is a commodity services space. For small businesses, and he has developed his own process with a coworker, which is a great way to do it. And to do it better, you need to practice. You need the reps. And why get the reps in on real live deals? Why not get it when you can feel comfortable, warm up, develop the skills? And that's what Brevity Pitch is all about. brevitypitch.com gives you the ability to use AI the way we should be. Instead of generating more and more dumb things faster, it pretends it's the prospect in a verbal conversation that is lifelike. And if you can do this, imagine how great you can become. As a salesperson, because how else do we practice? How else do we develop our skills? How do we train ourselves to become better? Everything. That's how people learn is repetition, nuance. Find a little thing that you can do a little bit better next time. Self-awareness. But doing it live with a real client, you don't get the feedback. Client's not telling you the truth. Client's telling you what they want you to hear, and they're probably overly positive and covertly negative. As soon as they hang up, then they tell their friends what they really think. They're not going to tell a stranger. You're a sales rep. Brevity pitch gives you those reps. Give— you can get that 5 years of experience in 1 because you can practice as often As you want with no judgment. That's what you really need. And what we're finding is it's the best reps that want to do this. The mediocre reps don't want to face obstacles. They want to just, ah, let's just put some frosting over that and pretend it doesn't exist. The problem is it does exist and it does come up. At the most expensive time when you're talking to a client. Here we go with the interview. I'll sum it up at the end and listen for his great cold call opener. Here we go. Hey, Steven, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Hey, Brian, thanks for having me. A big fan. Uh, I'm been in sales for about 26 years, primarily, uh, started off in the software space and now I've kind of moved on to the IT, managed IT services. I've been doing that for the last 10+ years, uh, based in New Orleans. Um, my company is ResTech, so we provide IT services. My current employer, we provide IT services to local businesses. So, uh, in college, I did a Bachelor of Arts. I did a lot of, uh, Theater, acting, that kind of thing. And when I got out, I just kind of decided, yeah, sales is probably the best thing for me to— for my career.

Yeah. What was the motivation for sales? Was it just personality match or?

I think so. I just like interacting with people. It's one of those things. I'm not the type of person that's gonna sit in an office chair all day long. I like to be out and about interacting with people. And then, you know, once I started early in my career, when I started to have a sales responsibility, I really enjoyed, you know, the challenge. You know, it's fun. You got to have fun with it.

And when you say have fun, what does that mean to you?

Well, it's, you know, it's like a win or loss kind of scenario. It's like a sport in some ways. So of course, no one likes losing. You know, you're not going to win everything. But at the same time, when you do win, it's kind of a high and it's always a kind of, is there such a level of satisfaction, especially, you know, during a sales cycle when you start, you know, from the initial call to the meeting to bring, sending the proposal and then winning, there is no greater feeling and that has never gotten old for me.

Yeah. And where'd you get that competitive spirit? Was it from sports or theater or?

Yeah, I think a little bit of both. I mean, I played basketball and swimming were probably my 2 major sports. But yeah, definitely competitive. I love sports. You know, a lot of what I talk about as it relates to sales, I kind of like to use sports analogies. So for example, I like to tell my coworkers and my boss, my mentor Clayton Mooney, that we're kind of like NFL cornerbacks. You know, the cornerbacks have the hardest position in the NFL. You know, they have to match the best receiver and even the best cornerbacks get burned from time to time, but they have a short memory. And I think that kind of correlates with sales. You're not gonna win every deal, right? But the bottom line is you gotta move on, short memory and stay focused. Yeah.

And what do you feel is your strongest selling characteristic?

You know, something I think you talked about, it's empathy. You know, when you meet a prospect, you really got to connect with them. Time is short. People have a lot shorter attention spans nowadays just because of technology. So able to empathize with the client and listen more importantly, stop talking, listen. So my ability to listen, engage, and, you know, bring my value quickly and make, you know, appreciate the prospect's time, be sensitive to that. And let them know that that's your approach.

Yeah. And your space is pretty competitive, isn't it?

Absolutely. I probably have just, just here locally in the New Orleans South. I mean, we're— ResTech, the company I work for, we pretty much cover the whole Southeast. But yeah, just in my local market, New Orleans, I probably have 25 competitors.

Wow.

And that do exactly what we do.

So how do you deal with that? How do you differentiate?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think where we're successful, and again, I keep harping on my boss Clayton Mooney, but one thing that we do from our sales perspective is, you know, we have a process. We don't wing anything. So in other words, we have a process from the first outreach to when you actually get the meeting. There is a process during that meeting. It's a very well-oiled machine. And then once, obviously we try to go for the one-call close if we can do it. But if we don't get the one-call close, it's about the follow-up as well, but also having a cadence with the follow-up. In other words, not annoying the prospect, but we keep it simple, you know, in terms of enabling the prospect to see what kind of decision they should be making, if it's with us or with somebody else. But I would argue we have the best process. in our market.

Because a lot of people don't like the process. They like to go with the flow, be intuitive, right? But let's face it, you have to accomplish certain things. And if you don't have a process, you don't know what game you're playing, do you?

Exactly. Yeah.

And how did—

did you come up with this process, or was it the company's already, or Actually, you know, it's a process that, you know, again, I keep mentioning Clayton, that we've kind of worked with him for 10 years. It's kind of evolved. And, but yeah, I mean, I think what we do is 100% different than what our competitors do in terms of how we start, you know, from the get-go meeting the prospect to the point of, you know, proposing. I think we do have a very unique model.

Yeah. Can you give us a sense that you do better discovery? Elicit pain.

Yeah, discovery is a huge part of it. Understanding their business, understanding, you know, their new applications. But yeah, the discovery is probably the biggest part of finding what we like to call that wedge, if you will, that kind of separates them or separates us between their existing provider or any potential providers they're talking to. So yeah, discovery is 100% more important than the presentation. Anyone can present, right? Anyone can present. But to discover, to connect with that prospect, to unravel, you know, what are their pain points? What's not working for them? What is working for them as well? You know, you don't want to put that prospect when you're engaged.

And what do you typically find during discovery where you know it's a match? Versus not a match?

Typically, obviously, for one, they're not happy. For one, if they actually, a lot of times our prospects, they're kind of on guard. They're kind of like, okay, I'm not gonna give you too much information, right? I wanna see kind of what you're gonna ask me because they're always kind of a little uncomfortable. But the minute, you know, I get a whiff that, you know, Their service is a little, you know, the current service they're getting is a little slow, or, you know, that some of their employees— I typically deal with business owners. So if I get a sense that some of their employees, if he indicates, aren't happy with their service, or it's a little slower, I kind of get a whiff that, yeah, maybe I do have an opportunity here. And also the other thing too is if they've been with a certain provider for a long time, That's when I know, listen, you haven't really looked at other options. If you've been with your same provider for, say, 10 years, this is why we're here. We're helping you understand what other options are out there. Yeah.

And what type of client matches you the best from your process, your skills?

Yeah, I'd like the small business. The small business is typically like where I like to roll. I mean, that's in the Southeast. That's pretty much the dominant Business. So, you know, companies with 50 or less employees, those are the type of businesses that I really like to deal with. I don't want to deal with large government contracts. There's nothing wrong with that space, but I typically, yeah, 50 or less employees is really, I think, where I'm comfortable and relatable. And I think it's just a, it's a fun space to be in because they can make decisions quick.

And do they typically have any in-house?

Techno— Sometimes they do. Yeah, sometimes, but regular, mostly no, that's not the case. We're the outsourced provider. So they're either using a competitor of mine that's of similar size, or they're using what we'd like to call the 2 Bobs in a truck, the single guy, IT guy that's just driving around, you know, putting out fires, so to speak, not being proactive, not having the staff to do or provide what we can. So That's pretty much what we're going up against right now in this current market.

Yeah. And when can you tell you're not going to get a deal?

If they typically, if I can tell pricing is going to be an issue, if that's the first thing they talk about, you know, especially in this economy right now, there's so much uncertainty with the presidential election, all that stuff. If they start talking about pricing right off the bat and then also Number 2, if they say, you know, security is not important, IT security, if they just kind of blow that off like, oh, I don't— cybersecurity, I don't need to worry about that. My business is so small. The hackers don't care about me. If so, if they don't have any kind of, you know, importance as it relates to cybersecurity, they're probably not a good fit. Yeah.

And are there still a lot of people like that or is it just old school or people haven't been hacked before or hadn't had a problem?

Exactly.

Yeah.

It's both really. Yeah. I mean, most people know about ransomware and all those things that are out there, but it's, yeah, it's the old school, good old boy. Again, we're in the South kind of attitude that, you know, they're not coming after me. I'm not Walmart, I'm not Target, you know, but that's the part of, you know, the education that we have with our clients is that, you know, the small business space, the small business, you're the number one target. Because you don't have the system security. Exactly. Exactly.

And how complex does it get? You talked about a one-call close, but do they really, they don't give you a PO then you have to still work through the administrative process or they sign your letter of intent or—

You know, we have, you know, a simple one-page agreement. We go in there. So I have the agreement ready to go when I'm meeting with the owner. So, and so I give them the opportunity. If they're not that unhappy, they can sign an agreement right there and we can start the onboarding process in like a week. Now, does that happen all the time? No, that's a, you know, that's a small percentage of my interactions or my involvement with prospects, but we do have the ability to sign them on the spot.

And let's say they don't. How do you keep the process moving without it either dying or—

Yeah. So that's a great question. And I think we have a good process as it relates to the follow-up. Typically after I meet with the prospect, great meeting, he's like, let me think about it, whatever. I gotta talk to my people. Typically what I'll do is I have this boilerplate, if you will, summary email. It's very short.

Yeah.

But it describes everything we talked about in high level, not all the minutia, not all the details of services, but it says, okay, if you do, these are your 3 options basically. And I leave it at that. So again, they get a quick summary. I usually send it the same day or within 12 hours. So they have it and then I let it marinate for a little bit. When I say marinate, maybe for a day or 2, uh, but then I, I start following up. I don't, I don't believe in following up every day. I think that's a little too intrusive. I think you gotta have, again, that kind of cadence where, you know, you follow up with a call, you follow up with an email. If you see something online, a lot of times I'll research that company that I'm trying to get the business of. If there's something in the news that's related to something they got going on, I'll say, hey, I just saw this, by the way, as it relates to your company. This is another reason why we are the best fit for you. So Just staying engaged but not to the point of annoying them. Yeah.

And what sales skill do you feel you would do a lot better in sales if you had it?

So you're asking me something that I don't think I have?

You may have it, but if you had it, if you were better at it, like some people are great at rapport and bad at closing, they're bad at keeping the cadence moving?

That's a good question. You know, I think, you know, I think for me, it's more on the, I guess, mathematical side. I'm not a great math guy. Yeah. So, you know, I would wish I was probably better at numbers and being able to find things faster in that regard. But, you know, that's really a tough question.

Yeah, well, I mean, it sounds like you're good at pulling out and discovering what the key reason for them to switch. I mean, the math is good to kind of like in your mind do like an ROI, like what's that costing you?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That's, that's, that's what I was getting at.

That's okay.

I wish I could be better at that. And that's 100% on the head. So you definitely Describe that correctly for me.

That's hard to do sometimes when you're, you know, you're in flow with the client, right? To be thinking, oh, well, you're a year and a half ahead. And like, how do you stay motivated? Because this is a tough space, isn't it? Because close rate is probably—

It is.

Not 50%, it's probably less, right?

No, no, no, no, definitely, definitely not. Uh, staying motivated, it's just, it's, it's just a, it's a fun business. You know, I'm able to stay focused on one task. My one task is to bring them on as a managed services client. So I'm, my, my job, my position is very focused. I don't have to worry about 10 different solutions that I, that I can offer the client. I have one thing to offer. So, uh, that helps me stay motivated. Uh, you know, seeing customers, you know, obviously I'm sure a lot of salespeople say this, but a lot of when I see customers and they come back to me and they say how happy they are with our service, when I see them post things on Google reviews about how great they're being taken care of, that gives me a lot of satisfaction. Yeah. And I guess you— okay, sorry about that internet problem. Okay.

What, what has been your longest sales process or cycle?

Oh, okay. Well, yeah, so I used to sell software to government agencies, primarily sheriff's departments, police departments. So they'd have to get permission from the county board or whoever it was. So those, so probably I'd say a year, a year to a year and a half. That was a long time ago. But yeah, that was, that was Yeah, that was, it was very rewarding at the same time. But yeah, it was about a year of a sales cycle.

And doesn't your business, do they, they have to cancel their pre— their current provider, right? Or is there a contract that—

Yeah. Yeah. Typically I'm going against somebody that they're in an existing contract, but our space, yes, that's true. But a lot of times our space is you can get out in 30 days.

Okay. And do you guys host like email and other apps for them, or is that—

Oh yeah. Well, we do have a data center so we can host a lot of their data for them. I mean, typically their apps are hosted by a third-party provider and email, you know, we're typically pushing Office 365. But we do, again, we do have a data center where we can host a lot of their infrastructure for sure. Yeah.

And do any of these deals take months where it's multiple calls and multiple—

Oh yeah. Absolutely. Because I mean, like I said, you know, some of the agreements that, you know, that I'm going against with my— in relation to my competitors, it may be 6 months before they can technically get out. So yeah, there are definitely instances where it's been up to a year, you know. And again, I've had clients or prospects that I've been working with, you know, they'll ghost me, of course, even though I'm constantly reaching out in some form or fashion, whether it be LinkedIn, You know, email, call, whatever the case may be. And then all of a sudden I'll get an email that says, hey, Stephen, we're ready. And that's the best feeling in the world, right? So, but again, part of that is, you know, having a pipeline. So you're not just dependent on that one deal. You've got many others, you know, that you're working.

Is it hard to get in to speak with these people? I gotta believe that they get hit by salespeople all the time.

Yes. Absolutely, absolutely. That's probably the hardest part of my job, honestly, is getting in front of that decision maker. And so having the ability to kind of refine my pipeline list, I use ZoomInfo, which I think is very, a great tool, um, because it gives you a lot of insight into the company, a lot of different ways you can communicate with the prospect. So absolutely, that's, that's probably, uh, the hardest part to, uh, Part of my job is to get that meeting.

What's your secret there? Obviously successful at it.

I mean, yeah, you know, I do have a script. I don't want my competitors to hear it if they're on LinkedIn, but— We won't tell anyone. Yeah, it is kind of, I do have a script, but I will say it's to the point. In other words, I, you know, I've heard you talk about this too. It's, you know, I'm bringing value. I'm bringing something the minute I connect with them. Yeah. In other words, that I'm offering something that they don't currently have.

Okay.

And so I'm able to kind of engage them, tweak their interests. Like I've even heard you say on your show or one of your other viewers, you know, one of the perfect, uh, I'll talk about this, the intro and the cold call, because again, Cold calling, I believe, is still very important to our job, is that you go, you intro when you get the business owner on the phone. I only have a minute. In other words, you are important. And that does work. I promise you it works. And, uh, once I heard that, I was like, wow, that is ingenious. So that's, that's part of my script. Yeah.

Well, it kind of creates curiosity. What's so important that Stephen's calling me?

Right.

When he's so busy.

Yes, exactly.

Well, that's pretty powerful that you're able to do that from a cold call to an owner.

Yeah. Yes, yes, absolutely. And typically they're very receptive to that. Yeah.

And do you do text or cell phone or desktop?

So Zoom— so Zoom info, we've only really started using, but yeah, I've actually I won't start with the cell phone because that— I don't want to be too intrusive. You know, I'll start with— it'll give you a direct dial number, a headquarter number. Um, I won't start with that, but yeah, I will call the owners on the cell phone for sure. And, uh, a lot of times owners are busy. You know, they got people calling them all the time. Uh, they may say, hey, I'm too busy right now, get back to me, you know, XYZ. So I may send them like a quick little follow-up text like, hey, this is Steven, I just spoke to you on the phone. I really, I know you're busy. I wanted to see about, you know, maybe having a quick discussion to talk about what we can do for you.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

And then start that dialogue, start connecting with them. Yeah.

And is there anything unique about Louisiana? I've got a bunch of folks from Louisiana in my course. I just, it just seemed disproportionate.

Yeah. I mean, we're, we're definitely a, It's, it's, it's, we're definitely, it's a small market, obviously, no matter what city you are. Um, you know, New Orleans is different than Baton Rouge, and Baton Rouge is different than Shreveport. You know, those are some of the bigger, big markets, if you would, in Louisiana. Yeah. Um, but we're very, you know, trusting people in our community. So you do, you do a lot of business with my brother-in-law. You know, my brother-in-law provides a service for me. That kind of thing. And we're very trusting and we're loyal. So if you do a good job as a service provider, whatever service that is, we're very loyal to our vendors. And so I think that you don't see that a lot in other businesses. Maybe it's all a pricing game. And don't get me wrong, it's a pricing game, but we do too. But there is, you know, I think there's a certain kind of trust and loyalty that we have. with one another.

And how about as far as networking? Has that been effective on your prospecting side?

You know, a lot of people do that, that I know that are very successful. You know, they do the, you know, the chambers and they do all these, you know, uh, breakfast luncheons and stuff like that. I, you know, personally, I don't enjoy that. It's just my style.

It's not your bag?

Yeah. I mean, I, I kind of, yeah.

I, I didn't necessarily mean the organized networking, but like, You go into Joe's business and part of the negotiations, okay, could you introduce me to Mike, your friend Mike who over here, or do you know someone else that could use this service?

That is, I haven't, I've always thought about it. I'm probably guilty of not trying that, but that is a good point. So people would be helpful and That could potentially lead to other meetings. Yeah. Because again, a lot, I, I feel like I generally connect well with people regardless if they come on board with us or not. But that's a great point. I don't do that. And I, I think I definitely need to put that into my repertoire, so to speak. Well, I mean, good point.

Yeah. Everyone uses the tools that they got, right? If you're good with the phone, right? Phone's pretty direct. And is your market active on LinkedIn or is LinkedIn kind of new to them or is it catches up?

No, our market is, everyone's posting on LinkedIn, all my competitors and they're, you know, posting videos of successful, you know, installations and successful trade shows or successful lunch and learns. So yeah, they're very active on LinkedIn and it's, you know, it's also a good tool for me. Because it gives me some kind of competitive analysis too. I can see what other people are doing, what they're talking about. But yeah, I think LinkedIn is extremely utilized in our marketplace for sure.

And what do you wish you learned when you— what do you wish you learned earlier in your career that you now know? Everything?

Yeah, right. I mean, obviously, I think experience is number one. Having those experiences, having those wins, having those losses is, you know, immeasurable. But, you know, when I was younger, I would probably say, and again, it may sound kind of generic, but work smarter, not necessarily work harder. And what I mean by that is, you know, when you're young, just starting out, it's all about, you know, how many dials can I make? How many CRM systems can I update to impress my boss, right? I'm doing the work and I, you know, knowing you're doing the work, but not Actually focusing on the mission at hand, which is to get in front of that decision maker. Right? You can run a thousand meetings, but if they're terrible meetings, because again, you're you're you're you're you're meeting with the office manager, for example, of a business, and you're depending on him or her to sell that solution for you. It's it's like that game of telephone. Remember in the back in the old days? You say a message, and then that. to another person and the person next to him said another message, the message gets skewed.

Yeah.

And so that's what I say by work smarter, you know, really trying to understand that not everyone is gonna be, can be a client, right? You gotta focus, do the research, and then dive into having, you know, an accurate target list. So when you do get that meeting, you know, that's gonna be someone that potentially could use your service.

And that's pretty much judgment, right? It's immaturity. You know what to work on, you know how to work on it.

Yeah.

And did somebody teach you that? Or was it just the school of hard knocks?

Or? I think it was a little combination of both. I think early on, they kind of just throw you to the wolves because you're, you know, you're on a cheap salary.

Yeah.

They know, they know turn and burn. They know only what percentage is gonna make it anyway. So, but once you start having some success and you start, you know, elevating your career, finding different jobs and having more better jobs. And yeah, I would definitely say, you know, as I progressed, as I started, as I took a job where it took a lot of traveling throughout the country, um, there was definitely some good, uh, learning and teaching from, you know, people that, you know, I reported to. And so, but again, experience, experience, experience, I think. And then also do some also training. You know, I think one thing, another thing that I find is really effective now that we do is we do role-playing. So I'm the prospect and then my colleague is, you know, the salesperson and then just role-playing different scenarios. Because again, every scenario in every situation when you walk in with a new prospect is gonna be a little bit different, even though you have a process like we do.

Yeah.

Role play.

Right.

So, and I think that's, that helps, you know, sharpen your skills.

Yeah. It's like every game and every sport is a little different, right?

Yep.

You know how to play, but you don't know how to play against them today.

Right, exactly. You, you have to adjust to their formation or their defense. Yeah, exactly. Again, going back to the sports analogies, I think it is great for sales. Yeah.

And when reps come to you, what's the most common thing they're asking? Some of your leads?

No, no, no, no. I think the main thing is, you know, how do you get the meeting? Like, how do you do it? Like, what's your, you know, magic? And yeah, and again, I go back to the script. Yeah, that's part of it. Um, but there's also just easy things to recommend, like just get to the point. This business owner does not wanna say, if you ask them, how's your day going? No one cares about that. The business owner doesn't care. How are you doing? You know, get right to the point. In other words, you know, they, they'll listen, but you gotta get on message right away. Be direct.

Yeah.

Cool.

Hey, Stephen, I really appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Typically, y'all have a, like, a little feed that happens after these podcasts. I'll put in my LinkedIn profile link. So if anyone has any questions or has comments, I'd love to hear from them.

What I like about Stephen is he wants to become great. So he has a process. He defines his game. He breaks it down into smaller and smaller skills that come together. He thinks through what works and what doesn't work and the implications of taking one approach over another. That is a student of the game. That's somebody who wants to dig deeper. And he recognizes that empathy— empathy in this context means thinking like the other person, feeling like the other person, understanding how the other person is going to react to what you're proposing and the ideas that you want to share, getting the person focused on the issues they're having with their current provider. And guiding them through the process instead of reacting to it, instead of servicing it. I think today a lot of people look at sales as servicing the prospect, and that's part of it, a tiny part of it, but it's the wrong mindset. It should be partnering up with them, but the The responsibility for the guiding, for being the Sherpa of the deal, is on us. And the point of having a process is to know where you want to take it. Yes, I know we all want to take it to procurement, but we need to understand the micro steps, because if we don't understand the micro steps, they're not going to get done. Somebody above them is going to figure this out. Believe me, it took me a long time to admit this, but when I did, my game changed. When I— instead of reacting and being the nice service person that people like, you know, that B-player approach to selling, what I did is I go, well, look, I'm running into the same things on these calls. Not every time, but quite a few. And you know what they are, uh, price versus value, um, really digging in and finding the differentiators versus them not wanting to see the differentiators, understanding who has the most influence on the team to get them to change? Who's the leader on their side? Who's the maverick? Who's the person who's going to champion this? What's their personal win? They're not going to tell you unless you dig into it, really understanding where they want to go in their career. Those are the things you want to talk about, discover. And remember, the process is not rigid. It's yours. It's your game. And what people don't want to do is write it down because they sit down and they go, I don't know what it is. So what do they do? Oh, present. Oh, talk about me. Because that is your intuition. Your intuition is not to be empathetic. Your intuition is talk about me, the product, my company, and all the great things. And usually in vendor speak— digital transformation. If I hear that one more time, I'm going to kill somebody. Wait, did I say that out loud? You know, that's not how people think, and that's not how they see things as different. Market leader— that doesn't mean anything to a client. Digital transformation, that means nothing to a client. Talking about standards and stuff, that's not what they care about. They think in problems, they think in opportunities, they think about how it's going to affect their life personally, not just the company. And this takes reflection, it takes calming down. Because salespeople love to be busy because it distracts them from the thinking, the deep work of sales. Look at your forecast. Most of that stuff is not going to close. Dig into it. Why? And those are the best of the best deals. Oh, we've got a political issue here. We've got, oh, you know, budgetary No, no, that's not really the issue. You don't have somebody there who's willing to stand up for you, to help you, to tell you the truth. So you use discounting to entice them to act now. And that, that's a nudge. It's rarely the solution or the only— well, it's the only solution the salespeople think about. If you really want to dig into this and control the process instead of being a quote generator, because that quote kills more deals than it closes. Yes, they need to know the pricing, and yes, they will need a quote from you eventually. But ask yourself this, or look back, where do deals die? Here's my prediction. About a day after you give them a quote. Why? They think they have everything. They think they don't need you anymore. They think this is all they need, and they're going to forward it without any context of why we're doing this. Why now? Why with you? What happens if we don't do it now? Those questions aren't answered. And they're thinking they can do this anytime. This is a nice-to-have, not a must-have. And you're more of a service clerk than you are a sales rep, a partner in crime, somebody who is working with them, leading them through this process. Because if you're not leading them, you better hope that they know what they're doing. Which they rarely do. If you want to become great at this, check out the courses at b2brevenue.com. Check out our friends over at Brevity Pitch. Bring your manager there. This is the future of sales. Sales is a performance profession. The better you perform in those conversations, in your communication skills, in your questioning skills, and your listening skills. Those take a lot of time, and we get so precious time doing them with live clients. We need to be prepared. We need to be polished, warmed up, in the flow state, connecting with them, not trying to think about what question to ask next or waiting for a chance to talk. When you see somebody in front of a client who's really good, they probably have a lot of years of experience, probably a lot more than you. So how do you get that experience? You gotta be doing it. Thinking about it's good, writing it down is good, analyzing it's good, reflecting on it's good, but doing it— everybody agrees doing it is how you learn. It's how you become better. And why not do that in a simulator instead of a, a real live plane where you could crash? brevitypitch.com. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening. Check out the Sales Questions Brutally Honest Answers Show and the Sales Leadership Show, my other podcasts. Thanks for listening.