THE #1 THING THAT SEPARATES THE BEST FROM THE REST IN B2B SALES

Today's topic we really haven't covered before, at least not in great detail. It's about reading the situation, whether it's reading the person, the company, the deal, how well the meeting went. It's a critical skill. And I had done a video about this on LinkedIn a while ago, and somebody had commented, isn't that just experience? Well, no. Experience is doing things over and over again. But if you don't pattern match, meaning keep track of these meetings, distinguish good ones from okay ones from not so good ones, and what's the difference? Not just grade them, but understand the nuances of them. This is innate in us, but you have to be proactive to become good at it. You could take 10 years to become good at it, or you could learn it really quick. I liked this skill because you would have, you know, all kinds of ideas and things to do during the day. But if you don't prioritize them, because prioritization is really Grading what's more important than the other. And you have to do that somehow. And I think this is something that is kind of overlooked today because we're using a CRM to show us what we should be doing that day or what we are told to do that day instead of our own planning. And it fits so many things. For instance, I was just listening to a podcast. Remember the old Loveline in the '90s? Adam Carolla and Dr. Drew had this radio show where people would call in and ask all kinds of questions. And Adam Carolla, if you don't know, is a comedian. Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician. And so they have very different views on it, and that's kind of why it worked— that chemistry of a comedian With kind of, you know, real strong common sense, I would say. And then you had the doctor with the medical training, and you mix them together, and they could read the problem and prescribe a remedy, an approach, a next step. And I love listening to it because I liked how they use questions to peel back But there was a lot of pattern matching, a little too much sometimes. But they were in a very short period of time being able to talk to somebody on the phone they've never met, they're not looking at, and try and help them. In sales, we got pattern matching everywhere. And it's not just time management. It's what deals to work on and how and in what order. Instead of what we tend to do is be reactive and either do what we're told, react to requests, service mindset. We don't really take a step back and go, okay, I got 8, 12 hours today to do a lot.

What should I do?

In what order? And to what depth? And too many of us feel just comfortable doing something. And this is why, you know, scrolling on our phone, because it's an activity, but it's really a distraction. Let's get into this interview. I think you'll really enjoy it. And you know what else uses pattern matching? AI. And this is what Brevity is leveraging. It's pattern matching the best sales conversations, the best questions. The best timing and tempo, and it gives you a way of interacting with an AI verbally. Sounds like a person. It's quite magical. You got to take a look at it. I've got a demo of it on my YouTube channel if you want to take a look at it. Just search Brevity or AI and it'll come right up. And it's the way I practice, and I'm practicing It on not just first meetings. I don't cold call anymore. Boy, do I miss that. But I do have a lot of sales conversations, and I do it to analyze a deal because it comes back with questions that aren't typically asked, or at least that I don't want to ask. And this is the crazy thing about our brains. Our brains are pain avoidance machines, which means if there's something that we should do, need to do, uh, have to do, we avoid it like the plague. And we keep thinking, because the other part of our brain thinks we're always right and we're the best and we've got the most accurate interpretation of the world.

Eh.

These 2 parts of our brain fight all the time. And if you don't have somebody focusing you on the right thing, you tend to just overlook it. So check out brevitypitch.com and bring your manager, schedule a demo if you've got a team, and you'll really— it's very exciting to see the future of sales.

Here we go.

Hey, Mark, thanks for joining us today.

As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate the invite. A little bit of background on me. I've been in sales pretty much my whole career. I think I knew I'd be in sales when I was growing up. I used to work at a— when I was 12, I got paid to work in a pharmacy. I'd take my money, I'd buy wholesale candy bars, I'd bring them to school and Make 100% markup and I just continued that path, you know, and after school I joined a company that was in the conference and education business for tech events and trade shows. And I joined as the lowest person on the totem pole and I quickly saw how much money the sales team made and I was recruited to join it. And so I started, I did a really good job with my close percentage and I was recruited to take on the most challenging account at the company. And also the most lucrative. So in the 2 years that I was in that role, I was able to pay back all my student loans. And at that point I was hooked. So since then, you know, at many companies I've been in the role of a Vice President of Sales and then, and always doing a little bit of, you know, carrying a bag and leading at the same time. And then I made a choice to join a company that was in the information publishing space. And from there I just said, you know what, I just like helping people. I like helping entrepreneurs. I like building businesses. I, that's what I am. And I started Just Tell Us. So Just Tell Us has been in business for about 13 years and we provide advisory services, sales advisory services, fractional CRO services, help with playbooks, training, etc. And we work primarily with small to mid-sized businesses. Yeah.

So what I heard was that you'd like the financial freedom.

I do.

How unusual. And, but, you know, you went to, I know the school you went to.

My brother went there and it was mostly a finance and accounting school, wasn't it?

Yeah, it was. And that's a funny question. So I went there to be an accountant and after about a week, maybe a week and a half, we'll give it a week and a half. I said, wow, this is just not for me. You know, I'm a hockey player.

Really?

I'm a competitor and it was really that fast. And then I said, I called home and I said, I'm gonna be undecided until I figure it out. So I got a degree in management with a concentration in marketing, which is a lot better fit for someone with you know, with my interests and just my personality. So that's a great question and I'm so happy I made that decision.

Well, tell us about the personality because I sense the competitiveness. There seems to be a clear sense of intensity and passion.

Absolutely. I grew up in a family that was a pretty tough family and, you know, the expectation was that you would work hard and play hard. And, and, you know, for me and my parents to afford me playing sports, it was a big sacrifice. So, you know, I worked hard at it. Um, you know, I played hockey at Bentley, and, you know, since then I've played 2 times a week. And I'm, you know, now that I'm, I'm in my mid-20s— I'm not really, but now that I, you know, I, I still play twice a week. And, um, I, I just love the— I love the camaraderie, the the competition, and it's the way I've always been. So, you know, when other kids were in high school and they were doing other things, I was working 50 hours a week as a landscaper to make as much money as possible. I bought my own cars, I paid for things that other people didn't, and I didn't come from a family that had a lot, right? And so, so I just, it's just who I am. I'm pretty intense, but I'm also That's kind of my front. However, I'm not. So once you get to know me, you know that there's nothing I like more than, you know, just relationship building, you know, stepping back. But, you know, I do have an always-on attitude and I've tried to work on that over the years so that I would sleep more and, you know, and breathe every once in a while.

Yeah. And hockey is not only expensive, Certainly while you're still growing, highly competitive and very physical.

Yes.

What position did you play?

Defense.

Okay. Yeah.

And that was part of my game. And I was, I was actually very small when I was in high school and I grew, I grew in my junior and senior year of college. But I was always a very physical player and that just came from, you know, if I'm gonna go in the corner and get the puck and you're gonna get the puck, I'm gonna come out with it. And that's how you have to think. And it's much like sales. If I'm going into a competitive situation and I know that others are in there as well, I have to figure out how I can come out with the sale, right? And the only way I want to come out with the sale is if it makes sense for both parties. But it's, that's at the end of the day, I think that in sales, and even when I hire salespeople, I look at, were you competitively involved in sports? Which ones do you, you know, are you better served as an individual contributor, a team leader, team member? It all plays out in the individual's personality pretty quickly. And, you know, I think it's one of the greatest things in life for anyone who wants to proceed with this profession.

Yeah, because my next question was, did you see any correlations between hockey and sales?

Absolutely.

One about getting the deal no matter what, as long as it works.

Yeah, absolutely. There are a lot, you know, sales isn't always about being the shiny penny in order to get the deal done. And I think that too many I think too many people that jump into sales need that recognition that they closed the sale. I'd say that one of the greatest lessons hockey taught me, because I wasn't one of those people at hockey, I served a role and did it well, is I didn't need the accolades. I didn't need that. The financial piece is great. It helps me to have a better life. It helps me to pay my bills and make investments and those types of things. But at the end of the day, I didn't need that, right? And at the root of who I am and how I think I've forged my path in sales, I was just trying to do better than everybody else at pleasing the prospect, at creating relationships, at not being annoying. It respecting them. And I have had so many of my clients say, you know, I get called all the time. When I see you call, I answer because sales is a relationship and especially, you know, larger scale sales, right? There's different sales, right? Everything's a little bit different, but it starts with just being genuine and really caring for, you know, your company and your clients are all part of the same team. Yeah.

And that litmus test of whether you have a relationship or not is just that. They see your number, do they pick up or not?

Exactly.

Because they don't need any— probably don't need anything at that moment, right? But they want to talk to you anyway.

And the key thing there is don't always call them and try to sell them something.

Right.

Right. It doesn't have to be like that. Call them because you saw something that might interest them and just, you know, be thoughtful. How do you differentiate yourself in sales? Be memorable, be memorable for the right reasons, right? And it's served me well and it's part of what I try to share with new folks entering the sales profession as well as founders who, you know, a lot of my clients are founders who've You know, great ideas, they're innovators, but they really haven't been selling, right? They need help trying to figure out how to, how do I, how do I build this business and make it profitable so I can or get the traction so that I can raise money so I can exit. So I have options, right? And it's, be genuine, be kind, be nice at the root of what you do.

And after college and stuff, how did you learn great selling?

I had some fantastic mentors. We had some good, we had some really good sales training programs that I went through. I think that the number one thing that I benefited from is when I took my first role and got promoted, I ran a conference and exposition called the Salesforce Automation Conference and Exposition, which morphed into the CRM space, into CRM marketing automation. And so I spent every day talking with leaders at salesforce.com, at Siebel. They were my biggest client and helped many of those, NetLedger, went to NetSuite, helped them move their company forward and I get to spend time with them. So I lived with, you know, enterprise software companies that focused on sales growth, on marketing automation. And it was absolutely invaluable as I look back in the rearview mirror, just what I was able to learn during that time.

And the mentorship, because a lot of young, you know, salespeople think they've got it figured out, that things have changed for them. That's old school selling. I've got the new way of doing it. What did the mentors teach you?

Well, First of all, be a sponge, you know, listen to everything, but you don't have to do everything that I'm telling you, right? Listen, morph what works for you, test it into your own style. I think that that's hugely important. Nothing in sales is better than experience. Failure is the greatest lesson, right? And when you can figure out and you have somebody that you can speak with and say, this is what happened and this and dissect it. and figure it out. It just makes you stronger. And then once you've done that, you move on, right? I've got— I always get asked the question, what, you know, what's the most— a sale that you were really upset that you lost? And my standard answer is, oh, none of them, because I've moved on, right? So the— it's hugely helpful. And so I was lucky to have 3 or 4 people that I can point to that have shaped my career. They've invested time in me, and I try to do the same for others. The, the— I think I have a lot of, a lot of things that have worked for me and continue to work for me are not exactly what others would say are top of mind or things that you might wanna do. But I can tell you that, you know, as an example, I'm not the type of person who would make a gazillion calls and have the metrics of, hey, I did all this activity.

I think we've heard enough then.

Right. What I will tell you is that while the other people had a 20% close rate, mine was typically in the 80+% range. So, you know, everyone started to come to me to figure out what do I do here. So I get promoted into different areas and And then you, you know, we could go down that path of how that changes your comp and your whole life from that point forward. But, but, but, you know, it's just mentors taught me that there's no better way to be successful than preparation. And, you know, my dad used to talk about, there used to be the 6 Ps, but I've, you know, I've changed it to 5 Ps. You know, prior preparation prevents poor performance, right? And so If you can be super prepared for everything that you go into and you're competing for a deal and all of a sudden the people get off the, you know, you've got this committee that's evaluating what do I buy here? What software do I buy? And they're like, wow, they were on it. They might be a younger company, they might be a little bit riskier, but wow, I felt like they listened, they recapped, So I was always taught sell 3 deep, people change. And I think that that's so relevant today. People are changing careers all the time, you know, but the power of the recap and the power of succinctly recapping, never going over one line, right? Not being verbose and getting it down to such bullet points that they use it in their own internal presentations. is how I've won an awful lot of deals over the years. And I got that from my mentors.

And that's pretty much aligned with hockey, right? Because it's practice, practice, practice right at the casual part of the day too, right?

Yep. Sure is.

Around 5 AM. And why do you think people don't get the practice part of it? Because I think today people are just practicing on prospects, which isn't practice. It's a loser.

It's not. I would advise anyone who's starting in sales to use the same advice given to me. Spend a half hour a day, 2.5 hours a week trying new things, right? Sampling different types of software, reading up on different types of approaches, right? You can, that's manageable time. If just put down the phone, And just spend the time, don't get distracted and try it out. Some things will work for you and your strategy, some things won't. And I think that, that is, I don't think enough people do that today, right? And, you know, while the sales profession has changed, one of the great things that in hindsight used to drive me crazy is a lot of what we did We didn't wanna pay for our reps to go on, you know, outbound sales calls or go on trips. So from day one, I've sold on the phone primarily. I've sold on video conferences and, you know, how do you get more efficient at those things, right? And at the end of the day, how do you qualify fast, right? And tell the prospect, look, there's other companies and share, share who they should maybe look at, be helpful. And that help has generated so many referrals for people who haven't bought things from me, right? Because they said this guy might be able to help, you know, use your help. Why don't you have a chat, right? And they just tee it up. So I think that there's You know, there's just sales, you never stop learning. You never stop learning different ways to go about things. But there's basics that will never change.

And how did you avoid that numbers game trap of, you know, trying to make the most amount of calls, send the most amount of emails, the most amount of proposals?

The sales reports don't lie. And so, you You know, everyone's like, how can we get people to be this efficient? Right? I think that where, you know, where it— I think that where sometimes it became more challenging was on the comp side on future years. So the management, before I was in management, would say, hey, how can we get this guy to hit those numbers? And Could he get that much more if he hit those numbers? And you'd have, you know, conversations about, you know, do you think he could do that? And it's like, well, you want the sales, we're gonna end up at the same number at the end, right?

Maybe.

Or would you like to see how we can continue to build on what we have? And I've always been, you know, a top performer, right? In every company that I've been at.

And, but you have from the 15 minutes I've talked to you, the intellectual capacity to do other things. Why do you stick with sales?

I like it. I like build, you know, I'm on a, I'm a board member. I've, I help build companies. I, you know, I've done operations. I've, I've essentially led companies, right? But I always am involved in— I just like it. You know, I like helping people solve problems. And I think that at the root of what we do, you know, everybody has their challenges and their problems and they have needs. And if you can find how— if you can find people who have those problems and you can show them how you can fulfill those needs, and you can do it in a way that's articulate while you're, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're still trying to move through the process fast. If you can do that, then, you know, it— I, I feel like there's, um, you know, every day you, you've accomplished something, right? You know, it's, it's like, it's like, um, you know, a lot of people take care of their lawns. Why? Because after they do, their lawn looks great. You know, and if you know that your client is better off at the end of the day or your prospect is better, there's, there's, you are a happier person because you kind of, you feed off of that, right?

And what do you, what mistakes do you typically see reps making that keep them from going from a B player to an A player?

I would say, It's really hard when you're learning the sales kind of environment to not have respect for your time, right? And you start to have, you know, you just take calls and you try to force something to close that isn't a closable opportunity and you just develop those habits. And a lot of those are driven by You know, just, you know, an experience. And, and also by, you know, perhaps the culture, right? And, and so I would say that there's, there's, you know, there's just a lot of, you know, it's being able to read the audience is a skill that's, that's, that's, that you, it takes time to learn, right? Knowing when to say somebody's late for a call. They're 10 minutes late and you proact— you have 20 minutes or you have 15 minutes left and knowing to say, hey, let's reschedule this instead of trying to force the opportunity forward and not get the time and respect that you deserve because you've prepared, right? So I think that there's, there's, there's that confidence that you get over time when you've been doing this. where you realize how to, you know, my favorite saying in the world is to slow down to speed up.

Yeah.

Right? And it works. I think that, I think how individuals ask questions and just, you know, the words they use, like the I want, my 2 least favorite words in sales. It sounds like when— and I know that this isn't popular because of, you know, the nature of how it's used today, but it just always reminds me of, you know, some child in a store that wants a bag of chips and they yell, I want, I want, I want. And I remove that from everyone who works with me from their vocabulary, right? There's better ways. to, you know, to forge relationships. I, you know, asking better questions. Don't ask no questions. Don't control the sales process by just being thorough, right? And making sure that you've achieved the objectives of the agenda. And I don't know about you, but how often do you get a call and you have like a sales call and there's no agenda to it. What, you know, it's 80% of the time, right?

Yeah.

So what do people do? They go by instinct, right? Imagine playing hockey by instinct. No rules, no structure, no practice, no systems, no plays. It'd be mayhem.

Mayhem. Yeah, absolutely.

You raised a good thing when you said, um, know how to read a room, and that, that can translate to a lot of things. Read the situation, read the deal, read the person, read the company, read the need.

There's a lot to it, isn't there?

There sure is. Sure is.

What, what goes through your head when you're trying to do that?

If you look— well, if you're in the room and you look around the room and you see that the body language, the, the— is somebody on their mobile phone? Are they taking notes? Are they not? Is their pen down or is it not? Are they leaning back in their chair in a negative kind of, you know, all those things, right?

Yeah.

So, so it's easy when you're in the room to, to figure it out. And that— I, I go directly to that person and start asking, you know, what, and I bring them into the fold whether it's a good idea or not. I do, right? Sometimes.

But ignoring them isn't working.

Ignoring them is not working either. And you know that they're the ones in the room that are going to be the people to kill the deal. So focus on where the potential issue lies, right? Um, when you're on a, um, you know, when you're on a, a call, I, you know, if somebody just wants to get off the call, get off the call. If, if somebody seems like there's something else going on or they're getting sidetracked because they're somewhat— they're late, their, their day has gone, be thoughtful. You know, seems like this isn't the right time. Let's— how about tomorrow? You ask them sometimes when door open tomorrow, right? And so you're being thoughtful, but you're also controlling the next step, right? These are things that take a lot of time. And, and, um, you know, you will not sell to somebody who you don't have their attention. It just doesn't work, right? So why try to? Why not be thoughtful? Why not be helpful? And the word help is thrown around a lot. But at the end of the day, that's what we do. We help people with problems find solutions. That's what we do.

And how did you build up this type of confidence? Because this is very different than most types of confidence in sales.

A lot of practice. Many, you know, I was a Vice President of Sales at the age of 27. I fast-tracked through a company and I was a sponge. I went to work at 7 o'clock in the morning and I was the last person to leave every day. My wife and I used to joke that we had in our home when we were, before we had kids, that the carpet was basically worn out just to where we would eat and then sleep, right? And many, you know, just so many sales experiences and and over the years that have been challenging. And I think you get to a certain point in your career where you just, you get, you're confident enough in your ability and it just takes time.

And how did you prevent it from going to the bad part of confidence, the know-it-all level of confidence? Where you're the opposite of a sponge, you're a brick.

It's the rule of thumb and maybe not perhaps on this call so much, but I listen more than I talk on calls. Maybe 30% of the time I speak and then 70% of the time I listen and ask questions. I've been able to learn how to, and I know that there's plenty of AI tools out there today that work great. But I could type a full conversation and still pay attention. It was a skill that I learned early on. And part of the reason I learned it is because I couldn't read my own writing. It was that bad. And so I was able to quickly, you know, to listen and When you— the more you listen, you can get the cues, right? And it's, it's, it's just common sense that, that if, if you have someone who's, who's, who's busy and they're not giving you the attention, they're not buying from you, right? So, so read it. And if there's— if they don't want another time, then you've just saved yourself You've just saved yourself cycles, right? At the end of the day. So, um, I, I, I, I would say I, I bring it all back to great mentors.

And what do you tell reps that want to become great that are either the know-it-alls or they blame it on something other than them, the situation, the company, the product, the economy?

Yeah, no.

No, no, no.

Well, so to a certain degree, there are some times when, when, you know, maybe, maybe they have some great points, right? And so you say, well, how can I put it back on them? How can we fix it, right? How can we fix it? What are your, you know, and I talk it through, right? And when someone complains an awful lot, it could be your best salesperson and it could be your worst salesperson, right? Excuses, there's a difference between excuses and complaints and there's a fine line. But at the end of the day, If you go back and you look at the totality of their kind of their how they go about their day, to me it was all about how many meetings did you have? How many meetings were completed? How long were those meetings? Did you go over? Did you go under? Did you follow the process? And how many of those things converted? And I would just say, look, let's do this. Let's listen to some of these calls together. Let's go through it. Let me validate some of these concerns. But I always, and I don't know if this would be popular opinion, but I would let them vent because oftentimes when someone vents, they can move on, right? And I would listen and then you help them solve it. And when you do that and they are willing to listen and they find that success, well, now they wanna work for you for a long time.

And what sales skill or ability do you feel is your strongest?

Closing.

Yeah. And what do you do or what do you feel you do differently?

It's all the steps getting up to the close. It's differentiating yourself, building trust, recapping, The recap is the greatest thing ever. And even if you didn't capture it right, it gives you an opportunity to clarify. It gives you the opportunity to have that recap shared with the whole team that's going to be evaluating the solution. So they understand exactly why they're, they're looking at the solution. And there's all kinds of steps that go along with that, but it's, it's, it's down to details. Right? Are you, are you, if you were to bring it back to hockey, there's a lot of really good hockey players. Those hockey players that want to perfect certain things are the best at what they do. And, you know, I learned from that because at that point I wasn't the best at that. And I realized what it takes. So you, I would say that, that at the end of the day, that and the confidence to ask for the for the sale at the right time, you're not really selling at that point, right? You're, you've kind of led them to a conclusion that, that they've made, right? They've made that decision. You've just helped them get there in a thoughtful way.

And in the recap, you use the word why instead of what, why they should be moving forward with you versus what you do better than everyone else.

Correct.

How did you come to the conclusion of the why? Because most reps focus completely on the what, what we do and what you get.

You know, a lot of reps focus on features and benefits and I focus on business outcomes, right? And I also bring it back to You know, when, when you're successful, painting the picture, when you're successful, what does it mean for you? Right? What does it mean for you and your career and your progression? Now, you know, it goes a long way, right? Everyone wants to move forward. Everyone wants to make money, get more responsibility, and progress in their careers. And if you can be part of that process, well, you've got to You've got a friend and a referral for life. And that's how I've always looked at sales. Right.

Well, I appreciate your time today, Marc. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

You can find me on LinkedIn and my company is Just Tell Us. So justtellus.com is our website.

And the first thing that we should do, especially in prospecting and sales or even Any other time during the sales process is read the client. What are they going through right now? What's their workflow like? What are they thinking about? What do they value? What are the emotions that drive them? And people are like, oh, that's a lot of work.

Sorry.

And we talked about this Yesterday in office hours for Start the Conversation, Get the Meeting, because I shared a case study that I did with a sales development manager, and he expressed concern that my approach would take too long. And I said, well, you know, you can go from complete stranger to a live conversation probably in a week, week and A half, but it's a conversation. How many conversations, meetings, are your reps getting today? They were averaging one per week, so 50 per year. That's a lot. That's a lot of work to get one meeting. This is a full-time person to get one meeting a week, and they were doing well over 50 emails a day that were professionally written and were good. Whoever wrote these was good, but it wasn't effective. They were interesting, they were concise, I liked them, but they didn't match what the market wanted. Might have worked in other cases where there was active Here, you had to develop the need. New product, new market space. And he was worried that my approach would take too long. I go, well, if I can get you or teach your reps to get 5 meetings a week or 10. He goes, well, you know, you know, sales is a numbers game. And I'm like, oh boy, I got a lot of work to do here. I go, do you think it's gambling? You think sales is a game of chance or a game of skill? Now, the distinction is critical because, like, like, let's pick stocks or any kind of investment. You know, you can look at it as a game of chance, or you can look at it as a game of skill. How well do you know that stock? How well do you know the economy? How do you know the dynamics? Then it becomes a skill. But anyone can buy a stock who has the money. And so I had a lot of work to do with him. And I go, well, why don't you give me some leads or some, some people who ignored your email pitch? And let me see what I can do. And I built the system for him. He paid me to do it, and I was able to show him how it would work. And people get stuck on instantaneous. Well, instantaneous is when someone comes to you. That's retail. We're in B2B. You have to build up awareness and interest and curiosity. It's not fast, but it's effective. And he was paying these sales development reps on number of meetings. Now, these meetings sucked. I talked to the AEs. They were like, these aren't qualified, they're not interested, they're just anybody that they could possibly get to sit through a demo. Okay, so now you got 2 problems. You're paying people to now waste someone else's time, and you're certainly not selling more. If you really want to learn how to start conversations and get meetings, it's a skill. It's not a tool. It's not a gimmick. It's a sequence. It's a step-by-step process, not coming up with an incredibly unique, compelling pitch. That's advertising. We're in sales. Go to b2brevenue.com.

Check it out.

The other problem I can help you with is if you've got a lot of things in your pipeline and they're not coming through, they're not closing, but you still think they're going to buy. Closing the complex sale is the game changer for you. Understand how companies buy and how you can control that process and increase those deals. Doesn't that sound good? If that's of interest, go to b2brevenue.com and check it out. Both of the courses can be delivered to your team on site if you'd like. I've got 2 certified instructors. Just send me a little note. note on LinkedIn would be great, and I'll get them in touch with you. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.