THE FASTEST WAY TO IMPROVE IN B2B ENTERPRISE SALES

Sales is one of those weird jobs, a performance job where it's never perfect. I guess the best we can get is we either get the deal or we don't get the deal. Now, the bad part about it is that we always feel a little inadequate, that there's always improvement. But that's good. That's the good news. Because today, what we're going to be talking about is how to get better at sales. And although the topic is about noticing mistakes and correcting them, it's really about self-improvement and embracing those observations. Because once you know what the mistake is or the less than positive or less than desirable activity, then you can change it. Too many of us just look for the quick Tips, cheat codes, and you know my opinion on those. They feel good for a few minutes. They're the donuts and coffee of sales. They taste great going down. They give you a good buzz for about 20 minutes, but then your stomach hurts and you're back to where you were before. And I got a great example of a mistake I made, and this is how simple it could be. Yesterday I made the mistake of getting a big venti Starbucks coffee after I already had Coffee at home. I thought it was a treat, a nice thing to get me through the day. And I loved the coffee. I loved the little caffeine buzz, but it was just too much. And all of a sudden, oh, I had a hard time getting to sleep. And then I get up and I go running and it's like I wake up late, put me off my day. And I look back and I go, that was the— The thing that caused it. Now, have I made that mistake before? Uh, maybe 1,000 times. But it wasn't really till yesterday, or actually today, that I said, I gotta keep an eye on that. I've had, you know, slight modifications to it, but think about what is causing less than desirable results in your day. And it doesn't have to be as simple as coffee. It could be several things, lots of things. There's infinite number of things that we can improve on. I would prioritize them on the easiest to solve with the biggest impact. Too many people look for the big one. I'm going to go from doing no prospecting to 100 cold calls a day. That might not be the right approach. I don't know if you'll make it past 10 AM. Let's get into this and I'll sum it up at the end. I'll give you some ideas. If you really want to become great at sales, go check out the courses at b2brevenue.com. Fill up that calendar with conversations with prospects that can turn into meetings, that can turn into deals. That's what it's all about. And it's not about value proposition. Oh, cut it out. Customers.

I say customers.

I even hate when other people say customers or buyers. That's my pet peeve when people call buyers because it assumes that since I'm selling, it's someone else's responsibility to buy. That's not a very empathetic way of looking at it. Let's get into it. I'll sum it up at the end.

So do you ever make mistakes in sales?

We could probably talk for about a couple hours on all the mistakes that I've made in sales. Some of them big, some of them a little bit smaller. So I think there's those career kind of more strategic mistakes that you can make, and then there's also deal-level, more tactical mistakes that you can make. But either way, yes, I've made a ton of mistakes over my career. And I think you have to look at it, you definitely have to learn from your mistakes, but also how do you prevent those mistakes from happening in the future is how I look at it now. Of course, I think if you're a go-getter and you put yourself out there, you try new things, you get uncomfortable, you're going to make some mistakes, right? But how do you prevent those in the future? And I think there's the high-level ones and then there's the more tactical ones with the deal. But I think about both a lot and I try to use that to help me get me better.

Well, which one bugs you the most?

Well, both of them can potentially cost you money. So I guess probably the deal-level ones probably stay with you quite a bit because you lose money or commission from it. And then there's a couple strategic ones that like, hey, I should have went in tech sales when I was 24, that type of thing. So more of a regret thing versus the path I went, but there's not much you can do about some of that type of stuff. But Yeah, it's pretty even for me as far as which ones bug me the most. What about you?

Well, the ones that bugs me the most is when I know better, where you kind of get caught up in the moment. You follow the flow of the meeting or you don't want to push back or do the work that you know you should do, the harder questions, or take your time a little bit. And, you know, and as soon as you do it, about 5 minutes later, you know, you're right in that trap. You just fell into it. And I think it's our emotions take over and we forget, or we don't want to remember what we're dealing with. And the mistake I— and then you double down on it by rationalizing why you did it. Which is almost like the opposite of learning. You're justifying stupidity. But, but how do you recover from it?

Yeah, it's, it makes it 10 times harder to recover if you make a mistake. For example, like you just mentioned going too fast. So you skip a step and you try to push something at the end of a meeting instead of setting up the next meeting to talk about that. So you go too fast into pricing or you go too fast into A proposal, whatever it may be. And then you kind of, I mean, then you're kind of in no man's land, honestly. I mean, that gets you back to the point where you have to follow up, you're chasing them, you're being a pest versus a salesperson trying to actually help them. So I think once you get in that chaos, you're in that hurricane of whatever mistake you made, it's really hard to get out of it. I mean, I definitely have been able to get out of it before based off my relationship or using other resources. But that's not where you want to be. So I think you have to kind of catch yourself in those meetings or in those situations and try to not get the happy ears and do whatever your instinct or your gut is telling you. But it's, but it's hard, right? I mean, with what I do now, it's my own thing. So there's a lot on the line when I'm trying to close a deal or something. So you, you want to, you want to hear what you want to hear sometimes and you want to push to the next step, but you have to Even if it's inbound, you have to set it up like, hey, I really need to have 3 or 4 meetings, even if it's inbound, to make sure that this is the right type of situation. But it's, it's hard when you want to close it, you want to make the money, you want to do well. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's not impossible to get out of it once you make a mistake. It depends on the level of the mistake, but I think it's not fun. And then that makes sales stressful and why people probably get burnt out is because you're always trying to recover from these mistakes and then you're Getting beat up, you're following up with people 20 times and then, you know, getting ghosted.

Yeah, I think it's the cause of the B-player trap in that once you have enough evidence to know that you can sell, you're pretty good, you've made your quota, people kind of stop in the practice or the self-training or the self-reflection. They say, hey, look at me, I was number one last year. How hard can it be this year? I'm all worked up. And then they go out and they just fall into these classic traps each time. And the B-player trap is instead of learning from it, they rationalize it and they say, oh, that person wasn't qualified. They didn't have budget. They lied to me. But that doesn't give you the deal. That makes you feel better. And once you start that, then all of a sudden, what's going to get you out of that? And a lot of people never get out of it, and it, then it becomes a downward spiral. And I've got a lot of friends who've been in that downward spiral for decades, and believe me, it goes pretty low.

Yeah, I started using, I started using a tracker to put all my mistakes in there from a deal-level standpoint, just so I can remind myself. And it's just a Word document where I have all my mistakes from different deals over the years in different types of situations. And a lot of it's some stuff you mentioned, like having happy years, moving too fast, sending the proposal too early, dealing with one person, all those type of things. And I just constantly look at it weekly so I don't keep Making that same mistake, and then to your point, even if you're doing well, people get complacent. But you have to keep kind of investing in yourself, whether that be doing a course like what you have or utilizing resources you have internally. But you can't get cocky even when things are going well, because that's where you'll start slipping up, and you're just kind of banking on last year. But then, you know, this year could be way tougher because of whatever's going on, and then you all of a sudden you get in that downward spiral. So I think you have to. Keep track of your mistakes somehow, whatever works for you, and then also not get complacent. And I, I'm a big fan of doing courses like yourself, like yours helped me a lot, but I've done a lot of other things too with social media and passive income investing, all this different stuff. And it, that, that kind of keeps me sharp too, where I, even when things are going good, I, I still put money and spend money on myself to kind of develop professionally and personally.

Yeah. And, and that can help, but we also have to realize that we don't want to just become consciously aware of it. We have to repeat it enough so that it's automatic.

Hmm.

And if it's not automatic, that's when we forget it. We get real comfortable. Oh, I read that book, or I know the platitude that fits into this situation. Can you think of any other profession where platitudes are accepted as skills the way it is in sales?

No.

I, I'd like to do an experiment sometime. Just make a video and put in the title listening, but have the video be about something completely different— rabbit hunting or fishing or something— and watch the number of people who don't watch the video about listening And put it two ears, one mouth in in the comments. Because people think if they have a platitude for something that they know the skill. That that knowing the platitude is great for conversation fillers, but it doesn't build up the skills. And look, how often does listening come up in sales skills? It's like. Like number one, isn't it?

Yep.

If you can show up on time, listening comes in right next. And yet, does anyone really practice or think about it or put a little system in place so that they're really listening to understand and be understood? No.

It just sounds good on social media posts or commenting on other people's posts so people Talk about all the time. Yes. Yes. I mean, I guess you, you kind of have to have a process, right? And then make it repeatable. That way you have the habits and it all kind of, everything always goes back to habits one way or another. But if you don't have the habit, you're going to keep probably repeating it over and over again. And if you don't have a process to look at before your calls or before the bigger meetings, maybe not for every single meeting you have, but the bigger opportunities, I think having it kind of mapped out, having a process, whatever your system is. If you don't have that, then it's going to be easy to make mistakes. And I know everyone talks about how long they've been doing something and how they can remember everything in their head, but it's just— Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forget stuff all the time. So, and I'm, you know, relatively younger, so it's— and then, and especially how complex the deals are. I mean, I was talking to somebody this week and they have an 18 to 24 month deal cycle. I mean, just think of how much stuff you're going to forget or is going to come up during 2 years. I mean, it's mind-boggling. So you have to have a kind of method to the madness and have a system in place, and that will help you prevent mistakes too.

And plus, we forget that it's a performance profession and that we signify mistakes as if we didn't make any mistakes, it was a perfect call. But no, no, there's no perfect call. We're dealing with people. How they judge it is all that really matters. How we judge it, eh. And if the deal closes, then we look at, oh, well, style doesn't matter. Well, I think you got to first separate the performance from the performer. And if you can take that simple mindset, Is so critical because what ends up happening if you give somebody feedback and very few people ask for it, most people are very shy. They want to be the observer. They want to audit. Well, sorry, that, that's nice, but that'll get you to a C-level. You gotta participate. You gotta ask questions. You gotta reflect because there is no perfect. What we're trying to do is just get better and understand what we're up against. And I think it is critical to document and record kind of the big things. You know, did I give the proposal too fast? Am I single-threaded? Am I buying into how easy they're telling me it's going to go through, yet they haven't done it before?

How would you know?

And then we also have to be aware that since it's a performance profession, We're performing all day long, and if we go crazy analyzing every word we say and every response we get, so we've got to cherry-pick the ones that are going to have the most impact and not try and apply 4 skills all at once on each call. And I think that that's where people, they get overwhelmed.

Yeah. And then you're thinking too much and you're not even having a conversation. You're just, you're thinking too much about, oh, I gotta listen this way, or I gotta say this, I have to ask this type of question. And then you're not even interacting with the person. You turn into a robot. But yeah, the performance thing really stands out because you, you think of athletes, right? It's the, the obvious comparison, but you can practice, you can practice, they're all prepared. But then when that championship game comes, They just, they don't, they mess up, they completely drop the ball. And then they, and yeah, and then they, they lose by 4 touchdowns and they're like, what happened? And then they actually prepared the right way. But sometimes some, you know, whether it's nerves or whatever it may be, can get in the way and then you don't perform even if you did practice. So I mean, just because you practice doesn't mean it's gonna end up going well when you have that meeting or you have that performance. So it's, it's an interesting way to look at it. And I think no matter how good you are or where you're at in your career, you can always get better and learn and get feedback. I did a call with someone recently, and at the end of every call she asks, hey, what's one thing I did really well during this meeting? And then what's one thing I could improve on? I kind of like that. It's just very simple at the end. Like, we're paying her for this coaching service, so she wants to get better. And it's just kind of, it's kind of a mindset with the feedback and performance. And then you have to be kind of hard on yourself a little bit too, or get feedback from somebody that you trust. To see kind of blind spots of how you can get better. But recording your meetings also helps too. If you're the bigger meetings, if you're having those in-depth things, you can go back and kind of see where did I kind of, where, where could I improve or make some mistakes there?

Yeah. And not have it hit your identity that you're, you're an idiot if you didn't, because you fell right into this trap. Like that doesn't help you next time because you end up rationalizing why you did it. And you can hear that right in their voice. They're like, oh, well, they asked. And it's like, well, that's the problem, not the solution. They just, they get defensive. So a lot of salespeople, if you can't make that leap from separating the performance from the performer, you're always gonna be sensitive about it. And it's not that You shouldn't be sensitive. You gotta separate it from your identity that, okay, maybe I fell into the— like I had a meeting the other day, you know, the rapport went off track and it delayed getting to the real content, but it was fun. Everyone was laughing and stuff, but it took up more time than it should have. And I fell right into it. Because it was fun, but I should have kept it on track, kept it moving. And, you know, is that a mistake? Sure, it's a mistake. Do you beat yourself up about it? Nah. Maybe you say, well, I should rein myself in. How do I do that? Calm myself down. Remember the point. Praise people a little bit more. Get— ask questions instead of making statements. And fine, move on. And that's okay. I think too many people look at it as the manager beating them up. If you look at it that way, then you're going to not feel very good about it.

Yeah. If you take it personally, it's not going to bode very well. I mean, earlier in my career, I took feedback personally. I thought people were out to get me. I thought they didn't want me to get promoted over other people because I wasn't getting promoted as fast. So I had this whole, It was in my head, just like this mind game I was playing with myself. And I think legitimately those people were trying to help me get to the next level and get promoted, get to the C-suite, whatever. But it all, it all worked out and I remember it now. So I, I still need to get better at taking feedback because I think sometimes I do rationalize it too. When you mentioned that earlier, I'll, I'll give an excuse of why I did it that way or why I presented that way because we're working with somebody that, to help us with Keynotes and speeches, like being really on point for a 1-hour keynote. And I mean, you get very critical of all these little things. If I say like, if I say right, where my eye contact is, am I doing an icebreaker the right way? How am I engaging the audience? I mean, it's, it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So you have a lot of things you have to work on. And if you take it personally, then I'm never going to get better. So I don't take it personally. I'm like, hey, I'm already at a pretty good level when I present, but if I want to get paid XYZ, And take it to the next level, I really need someone to help me get there. So, uh, the more sessions I have, the better I get at it, but it's, it's still, it can eat at you a little bit. I just think you have to separate it. I like the performance and the performer because it doesn't matter how successful you are. Everyone can always get better. They always have things they can work on. And that's the only way you keep kind of taking it to the next level, especially in sales. If you want to stay at the top, you need to be doing stuff like this and seeing where you can get better. where you made some small mistakes, where you can get feedback and just kind of ingrain it in your personality.

And that's it. And if you have that system, because if you treat it like your first sales call with your prospects, the way you treat it at a keynote, not that you're doing all the talking, but that there's a structure to it, there's a flow to it, there's step by step. You don't want to be a robot, And the way to not act like a robot is repetition. You know, find the little transition points. You don't stick with the icebreaker or the opening joke. You don't do 5 of them. You do 1 of them if it hits. Maybe you do 2 if it doesn't hit, but then you transition to the point. You make your case, you give an example, you tell a story, you, you put it into a question. And a lot of people, they wing it. They work off of their innate personality. And I think that's what everyone thinks sales is, is this innate, gregarious, fun-loving, great-to-be-around person. And there's a part of that, but that's not the whole game. And the game of sales is so complex, people give up on it and they just fall back into what they're good at. And that might be enough, but when it isn't, you lose the deal. And then what happens? You lost— there's the cost of that tuition for that lesson.

Yeah. And a lot of people do bank on their personality and the rapport that they can build up, and that gets you to a certain point. But if you're dealing with complex sales where it's hundreds of thousands of dollars or multimillion, Eventually you're going to get to those meetings where it's like big time. There's a lot of pressure. There's probably multiple people in there and you're having to do that performance, especially keynotes. You definitely can't wing keynotes, but any of those bigger meetings as you go from a sales standpoint, you have to be dialed in. You have to over-prepare. You have to know exactly the transitions and understand the time and what you need at the end to make sure you get the next step and next meeting. So yeah, it really is a performance and you have to prepare the right way. And I mean, I bank on my personality building rapport. It's easier in the first couple conversations because you don't have as much structure, but then as you go, you have to be way more dialed in with the system and the process, which I do, but I don't kill myself on the first conversation because I'm trying to just literally have a conversation and get them feeling good and get the next meeting. But yeah, so you don't want to over-prepare that it drives you crazy and like track every single mistake on. stuff that doesn't matter, but you have to prioritize the, the bigger opportunities, which for me would be meeting when I'm in that 4th or 5th meeting, getting close to getting, sealing the deal or the keynote. Obviously that's a big thing to get prepped for as well. So. Yeah.

And let's face it, the most important part is how are you understanding what the other person wants? Because the preparation is typically about us and how the product works and how it's better than the competition. And those are ingredients. But if we don't understand what are they going through, why would they do this? Why would they do it now versus 2 years from now? What do they care about? How do they win by working with us? And that process is, unless you proactively do it, how would you know that? And that's, and a lot of people, well, how would I know that? Thinking, oh no, cut it out, Brian. You lost me with that word. And it's probably the number one thing. And so how do you get there? You know, there's no course on empathy and understanding others. You have to push yourself a little bit. If I was them, ask yourself questions, get out of your comfort zone and really plan through that. Otherwise, the trap becomes obvious. And, and then when you fall into the trap, the most common thing I hear is, I did everything I could. Except for what you should. Have you not fallen into this trap a million times? You know, we send the proposal to somebody who has zero budget authority. You have no idea what their political influence is in the company. They told you it's funded, they're ready to go. And it's like, okay, what does that mean? And instead of digging in a little more or putting together a case for it, or kind of thinking through, if I do this, I'm either going to get an order or they're going to ghost me. That's not a good position to be in because guess which one is most likely going to happen?

Getting ghosted.

Yes.

Yeah. So when I, I left a really big brand, I, the brand had all the momentum. It was easier because I had established customers, was dealing with Home Depot, more of like a national account type thing. And I went to med device and realized, oh, you gotta kind of find new business a lot more. So it was quite a bit different. And then navigating the way healthcare works and the way hospitals work, you can't just shove stuff down People's throats in healthcare. You have to have an outcome. You have to work with the team. You have to do a trial. You have to do all this stuff. So I, oh man, I made a ton of mistakes early on in med device because I underestimated how hard it is to find new business. Also all the chaos you have to do in a hospital and just kind of getting people on the same page and then trying to skip the trial and skipping steps. I mean, just mistake after mistake after mistake. And then You'll, you'll think that you have a chance, but, and then you hear people on calls talking about, oh yeah, you feel good about it, but there was really no, no way that that was going to happen. And then eventually, after a lot of work, putting in the time with the map and the process, eventually I kind of figured out a method to the madness and it still took a long time to be successful. But yeah, I think it also, depending on the industry that you're into, it can, it can be challenging. And then if you're looking for straight new business or if you have existing customers, I learned that lesson that it's, whoa, it's, I mean, I thought I was pretty good at sales and I went to med device, which is more new business. And I was like, all right, I, I, I got some work to do because I didn't realize some of the differences there. I think sometimes you think you're so good at sales and you might have an existing customer and it's more inbound potentially. And then you go to something else, you're like, all right, there's a lot more steps here. There's a lot more ways to make mistakes when I went to that.

Yeah. Because when the client is a Presenting it like it's super simple. You, you, why wouldn't you agree with that? You don't want it to be difficult, nor do you want to slow it down. And your manager says time kills all deals. And so you gotta, oh, well, he's, he's been doing it longer than I can. Well, here goes a proposal and there goes your deal for the quarter, you know, because they take it, they go to their boss, the boss says no because he doesn't understand it or whatever. He's busy, he's been in a bad mood. And all of a sudden now you're checking in, following up, touching base, and no response. Wait a second, we were high-fiving it in the parking lot no more than 24 hours ago. And that— there are so many traps in the complex sale and people just fall into them and then rationalize why they're in it. And then what do they do? Try and find the next person to play this game with. Instead of learning how to sell and how companies buy. You know, just— and not only is it that, but you also have to think your sales manager only works on the best of the best deals. So when you're talking to them about these marginal deals, these deals you're trying to get into, trying to upsell, trying to compete with, and they look at it and it doesn't look like the forecastable deals, What's their advice going to be? Is it going to be accurate or is it going to be misleading?

It's going to be misleading.

Because no, no malintent or malpractice. It's just that's their vantage point. Get a quick no. Why? You're already at no. You really need someone else to tell you no?

How about this?

How about take your time and get a yes?

Yeah. And I mean, I kind of goes back to the numbers game probably that is out there as far as just messing up, making the mistake, then just going to the next one. But if you do it to enough people, eventually you're going to get some, you know, that's probably what, probably what people think is going to happen, but that's not fun for anybody. I mean, I just, it's just no fun for the customer. It's not fun for the salesperson. The man, it probably drives the manager crazy at some point because nothing in the pipeline is Accurate. So it's, yeah, it's really how do you kind of think like the customer, understand how they, they buy and all the different craziness that goes, goes with that. So, but you have to think, right? So I think a lot of salespeople don't think, they're just machines and they just do what they're told or they're just used to doing whatever habit. And you have to take a step back and really think strategically. And then when you have bigger meetings, you have to prep, you have to, if, if I have a couple people from my side, they have a couple people, you need to Make sure your counterpart, like, hey, you're going to talk on these slides. I'm going to talk on this. We need to get them to these 3 goals, make sure they don't run over. I mean, you have to do a lot of preparation on the front end. And I think that's hard. It's not easy. It's a lot of work. It's more, you don't want to do that for everything, but you have to do that strategically with the stuff that matters. So people don't want to do the extra work at the end of the day, probably.

Yeah, because they're stuck with little platitudes and war stories and You know, somebody saying something that now is— they call advice instead of studying the game that you're playing. And just like, where's the pattern? What's the pattern that happens if I do this? Does the deal close? Does the deal stall? If the pattern said, oh, well, 80% it stalls, well, maybe I should come up with another strategy. Because you only get paid on the deals that do close, and you look really bad when you're forecasting a deal that doesn't come in and you're trying to explain politics, no decision, which you don't even know what it is, let's face it. And, and it is always easier to just hit the buttons all day and, you know, inflate your pipeline to keep your boss off your back and stuff instead of really thinking through How do your customers behave in this space and where does it die and how do I prevent that point from happening? And everybody's in a hurry to lose. Take your time to win because people think there's, oh, well, they weren't going to buy any. Well, then most companies will buy if you do it right. And if you're in a rush, you're probably going to get a no because they certainly, the user buyers always think it's easier than because they've never done it before. It makes sense to them. All they have to do is forward it to procurement or their manager and it'll just magically happen. And then the salesperson's checking in, calling up, and it's just this kind of the blind leading the blind. And I think this is where sales, certainly in the last 15 years, has really taken a turn into the ditch where they, you know, they hire people, they tell 'em this is the cadence. And that cadence may work if it's inbound and you're a gorilla in the space and there's already demand established. But if you're a new company selling into a new market where people don't understand it, It's usually a death rattle. And then somebody comes in and figures it out and you, and you see them over in the corner and you think, oh, it's because of their territory. No, they figured it out and they're not telling you because you're not asking, you're not believing, you think it's something else. So they don't waste their time with you and it's not their job to fix you. It's our job to fix us. And we're the only one that can fix us. And to get fixed, you've got to be open to being fixed and not be like, oh, I'm wrong. Say, no, I crave to learn this. I crave to understand this. I crave to become better, not because I'm a bad person, but because I want to become better.

Yeah, I couldn't say it any better than that. I mean, you got to be accountable. You got to own up to your mistakes and crave that feedback and keep So what'd you think of that?

Some people think of looking at mistakes and improvement as saying, there's something wrong with me. I think that's the wrong way to look at it. The smarter, more empowering way is, what could I do better that would make my life better?

Hmm, isn't that nice?

Yeah, it's a great way to look at it. Think about those things, the little things. Write them down. Think about how often does that happen. Like my intro example of the coffee thing, I probably do that once a month maybe. And is it a big deal? Not a huge deal, but it tends to ruin the day a little bit. Don't feel real well, tend to snap at people or get short with myself or not really be patient with instructions or steps. It's just reacting. So what do I do? I put it down in my journal and I'm like, okay, be real sensitive about your caffeine intake because the ripple effect doesn't stop. Because if you get a bad night's sleep, was it what you did? Or what you did the night before that needs to change. Usually it's the stuff you did the night before. And if you don't wake up refreshed and rejuvenated, how do you feel during the day? Not so good. And we have this tendency to think that we have all this time in the world. And this is really what's taught me about having like a wall calendar when I have the whole year up there. Because in January that year seems like An enormous frontier with such a long journey. And all of a sudden the first quarter goes by and you're like, wow, that's fast. Second quarter goes by and you're like, holy smokes. Third quarter where, you know, people take most of the summer off, uh-oh, what's going on? And then the fall comes and whoa. So each day does count. And if there are things that can dramatically improve with little to no change, very little change, why not take it? Think about it. Go to b2brevenue.com. Check out the courses. If your calendar isn't full of juicy new meetings, you might want to check it out. You'll learn some skills, some talent, some ability, see how other people are doing it because the people in the course are selling really hard things. To really hard people to sell to, but we've been able to get through it with pretty much everybody. So it works. But will you work it? That's the only question. I know you'll, you'll come up with some excuse. That's okay. I'm okay with that. Check out the other show, Sales Questions, Brutally Honest Answers, and we'll see you next time.

Thanks, Dustin.