THE SECRET TO CLOSING THE LARGE ENTERPRISE B2B SALE

In other podcasts, I've always said people either want to talk with you or have to. And guess which one we want? For them to want to talk with us, there has to be something of value that they get out of it. It might be just rapport. It might be current events. But the closer it is to business, the better. We don't have to start at business. We can build to it. But can we hold a conversation about business? Now, we probably all run into this challenge when we start a new sales job, especially in a new industry. Or anyways, we've got a new product. You've got to sell it. One of the biggest challenges I had in my career is I went from selling software to selling this network appliance. It was hardware. special chips, all this security, and it fit into the network layer. But the challenge was that software people made the decision. But then there was network operations and security got involved. And if I couldn't talk with them about it, they weren't interested in talking to me because there was no need to, no have to. The want to didn't exist there. As salespeople, we have to develop that want to talk with us. Think about that through each and every conversation with your clients. Why are they taking the meeting? What are they getting out of it? Why would they take the next one? There's got to be something there for them. And the secret is kind of, it's typically not business at first, but it builds to business. And today, we're going to be talking about this because this rep took probably a big leap into this, into understanding the product, understanding the product from the user's perspective, not from the seller's perspective, and even got certified into it. I think for each of us, we have to develop that half-hour conversation. About the client and the problem and how our product fits into it. Not what is it and what it does, but the issues around it. And that's where the magic happens. If you can talk about that, they call it business acumen, but it's really kind of an empathetic conversation, a curiosity conversation, an interest Conversation that can turn into action. And that's where the magic happens. Because you need to get that rapport with the person so that they don't view you as just a rep. Are you just a salesperson? Do you ever hear that? How demeaning that is? Like, oh, you're just— What we have to do is become that resource, that expert. The word trusted advisor, it's so overused, no one knows what it means anymore. First, you have to have trust, but is your advice of value? Are you enough of an industry expert to have advice around this? Hopefully, you will be. You may not start out there, but we all should work towards this so that we could have a valuable conversation with everybody in the decision path. Imagine that. You know, some people have gone off and gotten MBAs for that. But that might be overkill. But we do have to study for it. We do have to practice for it. We do have to own it. Yes, we can bring an expert with us, and we should, but that doesn't relinquish us from the responsibility to understand what they're saying. We still need to understand that so that we can polish it and focus it on the most usable conversation for that moment. Hey, Serge, thanks for joining us today.

As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Hey, Brian, thanks for having me on. Again, name is Serge Glukhov. I'm a strategic account executive and specialist over here at Adobe Workfront. I've been with Workfront going now on my 9th year, and we were acquired by Adobe about a year ago. You know, I've been in the project management, work management space for over 22 years. So, you know, my role has gone from being a BDR to selling to the federal space, commercial, all the way to doing international localization and distribution. So I've had a— I've just had an incredibly blessed experience to this date.

And why sales for you?

Well, you know, interesting enough, like most folks, you know, it wasn't They come out of the womb wanting to be in sales.

With a cell phone next to you.

Although now it's attached. So, you know, for me, I wanted to do network engineering. So, you know, my first job, they said, look, we don't have a network engineering role open, but why don't you try sales for a little bit? And so I did it and made some money. I thought, okay, well, I'll do this for one more year and then that's it, no more. And then 22 years later, I'm, I'm still waiting for that, that opening as a network engineer. So fingers crossed.

Did you get addicted to it? Because a lot of people, all of a sudden, they see, you know, effort, reward, effort, reward, effort, reward, and becomes a passion.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's part of it. You know, a lot of it has to do with also the environment. You know, I have family that were in business, had their own companies, and I saw the kind of success and the travel. And there's a lot that sort of byproduct that really interested me. But, and as a kid, I had a paper route and went out and started my own little grass cutting company. And so, landscaping company for 10 neighbors. And so, it was like one of those things where put time in, you get money. And I I love that aspect. And, um, it's been a— today it's just been, it's just been incredible. And it's, it's a lot more complex than it was when I started 22 years ago. But it's, uh, it is a wonderful journey.

And how long did it take before you felt at home in it? Was it a year or longer? Or no?

No, I would say pretty much out of the chute. I, you know, I majored at business degree with concentration in MIS and management information systems. And I was comfortable with the IT world and I enjoyed the relationship part of it. I enjoyed being able to not just talk with clients, but understand them and understand what they're going through. But ultimately it was— and also not just the economic side of it, but if they purchased XYZ product, then would see the outcome. And we have some really incredible global logos that I've worked with in the past, and I can attribute some of their success to the product that they leverage. So I like taking that.

Yeah. And you started in federal sales. That's always easy.

You know, yeah, it is right now. It's, it is, it's totally different from commercial. They're both, they both have their pros and both have their pros and cons. But, you know, I I think ultimately for me, um, the thing about the commercial side is that there— oh, there are a lot of different, um, we'll say processes that you have to go through. Um, it, it's a little bit more in a vacuum, um, so you can, you can manage a little bit more. Yeah.

And what were the kind of epiphanies that you had early in your career where you went from You know, it being good to it becoming great?

You know, I've had— I've been blessed with having an incredible ecosystem across my journey here. And a lot of it had to do with seeing, you know, colleagues go to another organization, come back and say, hey, here's what— here's what is a game changer within our world, like, not just from a monetary perspective, but exposure they get to some incredible stories. And it became a little more challenging too for them. And so it really took on a life of its own. And so that to me was a bit of the epiphany of just saying, you know what? I go with the mantra that when you're green, you're growing. When you're ripe, you're rot. So to me, it was, okay, well, I'll take that next leap to that next bigger opportunity and see where it goes and see if I'm if I'm comfortable being uncomfortable. And so that to me became part of the epiphany where I've been able to grow and take that next step.

Because a lot of people don't do that. They kind of stay at a certain level or even the downward spiral, which is even more dangerous.

Sure.

I mean, I've stayed, you know, I stayed with one company over 10 years and it was— and I loved all 10 years of it, right? But it took a time where you just got to move on. You got to try something bigger. And at the time, the SaaS world was picking up. It was starting to really get a lot of interest. And so that's the direction I took. And so I've been within this space for 10 years as well.

What keeps you there though? Because that's a long time in the software space.

Well, I think— so my story is going to be a little bit different than everybody else's. So I'm in the work management, project management world. And for me, you know, I got— I really dug deep into that methodology, into that vocation. And so I even got a project management professional certification, which I maintain to this day. And so I really engrossed myself in the subject matter. And so once I did that, it was a bit of a commitment, but I found that it actually influenced influenced the way that I began to sell. And so, you know, as I grew into more of an enterprise role, it became very much this, what I like to call an enterprise earned value metric selling process. And so that to me became a bit of my mantra, the way that I approach accounts and deals and the whole kit and caboodle, so to speak. And I think, I think that's really what's allowed me to stay within this, this role and have success.

Because doing a large enterprise deal is a lot like being a project manager. You know, you got all these moving parts, there's a timeline, there's lots of risks and traps and alternatives.

There's a lot of what have you done for me lately also, right? So, so I mean, If we think of the whole concept of earned value, right, is about what have you earned to this point, and then what are you going to do in the future. And so I think within our world, enterprise sales, a lot of it has to do with what do we bring to the table? How do we continue that value with our clients? And then how do we prove after year 1, 2, 3, that we as an individual, as well as a solution, are driving the value so that you can defend the rationale for you being in that account as a solution year over year. It's not a, it's not a short-term goal.

Because a lot of reps look at that as kind of the customer success team, the consulting teams, the pre-sales teams, as opposed to their own responsibility.

Yeah, I think so. But I, you know, if, if you're going to land those 6, 7-figure deals, it's impossible. It is very hard to do, I think, without having a good customer experience, but the ability to have referenceability within the account. And so if you think of it as a workflow or work stream, you have to know the stakeholders up here as well as the different business units that are tangential to the overall goal. And if you're successful on one stream, you're going to be tributary, you'll be successful in the other ones. And so that's what I think builds it up. If you just kind of run and let others do it, and not to say that, you know, I stay in my lane, very clear.

Yeah.

But I stay involved. I, you know, my relationship with the, let's say, the customer success world within my organization is pretty strong and we partner and it's important that the client sees it as well. Because we will ask for, hey, based on your ecosystem and your experience, would you be good introducing me to this group over here or help us identify? Right. And I think, and if you abandon it early on, then it just becomes very transactional and we're about being transformational.

Right. And that's a big distinction there.

Sure is.

Now, how long did it take to get that certification?

Well, it seemed like forever.

That's been too long, right?

You know, there are requirements. You have to have a certain number of hours before you can apply, and then you have to take the exam. You know, mine was around localization of a software product, so I managed that process. And so, I mean, it took me about 2 years before I was ready to— before I could show the hours and then take the exam. Um, which was quite an experience. Never been as nervous going into an exam as, as that.

And didn't you just think, well, why don't I just read a book or attend a webinar?

You know, yeah, I mean, I tried those things. I tried those things, but I, I ended up thinking to myself, look, if, if this is— I was like 25 or 24, and I thought, look, you know, If this is what I want to do long-term, how am I going to separate myself from everybody else? What are the things that I can prove that perhaps when they see my business card and they see those credentials or that I am— and I know this term is tossed around a lot, right? A trusted advisor, someone that isn't in there simply to say, would you sign here on the dotted line? It is around, I understand what you guys are going through. I understand the complexity and the impact of a decision such as this, and here's why. And it's not smoke and mirrors. It's very truthful in nature because we have to be transparent with that.

Right, because the trusted advisor, the advice has to be more than buy my product or we have the best or You need this feature. I think when you get a certification like that, which I think is above and beyond what most reps would do, probably most of the reps you compete against or have seen don't, don't go to that extent.

Sure. Yeah, no, it takes time and it's a lot of work. It takes time, it takes a lot of time, and there are a lot of, again, constraints and dependencies to getting it done. But I would say in my 20s, that was probably one of the most mature decisions I've ever made. And because of that, I've been— and I think it translates to any other industry, but I've just become so engrossed in it that I think I drive value from the presales to post-sales experience for the clients. And I think they also react to it in a way of, okay, I'm comfortable Uh, sharing what, you know, what's behind the curtain. And, and, uh, we trust that our conversations will mean something and it won't just go in one ear and out. Because that's the other part which you hear a million times in your podcast is, you know, empathy and listening. But it's, it's so important.

It is.

And to listen, you have to understand what you're hearing. And to understand what you're hearing, you have to have some scope and experience with all the topics.

Yeah, you definitely do, right? Absolutely. I mean, look, I can't say that I know everything there is to know about project management. I'm, you know, I know enough. But when I don't, I try to pull a little bit, right? Pull that string and ask them to expand and why, how that ties into what they're doing today.

Right.

And I think, and I think, you know, and what's interesting is that, you know, we've seen an evolution where it's not just project management, it's also very much work management because project management is about managing the work, the start date, finish dates, and people. And that's work. Like you do it today when you put together a podcast, right? There's a start time and a finish time. There's people, right? So those, that's work. It becomes a much broader conversation and a much more— back to transformational, but a much more impactful one to have as well. Understanding the lingo and understanding what people value the most is so important.

Because even when you're working on a large enterprise deal and you get different people's perspectives internal to your company and the customer, you've got to be able to understand the difference between what's real, And what's just someone's reaction to what's happening.

Right. Or it's a checklist reaction, right? It's something that they said, we have to have this. And, and when you, when you look at it, like, I think, you know, I look at from the metric side for me is, is, are the business outcomes? What are you looking to achieve? What's the maturity of the organization? Like, are you guys ready for this? Because just because you say you want it doesn't mean you should. And when you look at those requirement docs and the check, and, you know, it's a collective of group, it's not— it's never one person, it's always different stakeholders. And identifying those who put that together helps me understand the outcome and why it's important. But the other part is the prioritization of that, because not all outcomes are created equal, right?

No.

And since there's so many different people involved, You got to be comfortable and bring something to the table for each of them.

Yeah.

And guess what? Each one of those stakeholders— I love the boardroom you're in right now. Each one of those stakeholders sits there, and their outcomes are just as important as the other ones, especially when you're talking about an enterprise-wide deal. So you have to identify, and you have to understand where there's overlap and where there are dependencies to that. Because you're right, I mean, it's all— it's important to them, it's important to me.

Yeah.

And other than the knowledge about project management and stuff, what other elements think distinguishes you as a rep?

Well, I would say that I like to— I like to think that You know, I'm pretty good at mapping things out.

Yeah.

Um, I feel like— I think that feels a little bit, a little project management, but it's— but it— but I don't think it is. It's really about understanding the organization, understanding who's where. Um, and it's about having an account plan, and that's part of it, right? And so, uh, just like anything else, you know, January 1st starts all over. And so take the time and look at the map, look at the plan. And then let's execute to it. And to me, I think the folks that I've been fortunate to see be incredibly successful are the ones that have governance, which is organization and planning. They get everyone together and they say, this is what we're going to do. They execute on that and they're driven. And it's a continual drive. And I think that to me is incredibly important because that drive then forces you to go and have the relationship with power. have the relationship with other business leaders that are either influencers or part of the decision-making process. And, um, and I think that, that to me, taking all of that has been an important part of, of what I do within my role today.

Because too many reps kind of look at us more like what I call MacGyver, right? I don't remember the TV show MacGyver. He reacted to being stuck in a trunk Or there's a time bomb going off. It's reactive. Sales, it's much more like a video game where there's a beginning place and an end place. There's lots of traps and villains and weapons you can use to get there. But if you don't understand how to play the whole game, you look at it like MacGyver. Okay, they haven't called me back.

Oh, they say they don't have budget.

Oh, um, they want this feature we don't have.

What do you say?

As opposed to planning for all of that.

Yeah, I think you call out the risks and you call out the, the constraints early on. Um, it doesn't do you any service. I mean, it's like, it's the old, you know, qualify in, qualify out sort of approach. But, um, yeah, I love how you, how you position that because it is part of the story and it's— it doesn't have to be fluid. Right.

Yeah, it's not like a running track. It's much more like a video where you're going through a swamp, right? And some— this quicksand here, and you got to swing a vine to get over it.

Yeah.

How do you, how do you react to that? Look, by the way, I have, I have like, uh, my drawer here to my left has, uh, about 80 paper clips. So anytime I need to MacGyver into something in a battery, I'm, I'm good.

You ready?

I am totally ready. The, um, But yeah, I mean, to your point, it is part of the story. If I can bring in that stream analogy again, there are different tributaries and you have to react to each of those. I think one of the things that I've been able to do pretty well has been understanding the people, process, culture, and technology stack of an organization.

Right.

To your point, just because they might have a technology in place today, That works for them perfectly. So we're not going to disrupt that. But maybe there's part of that business unit that has to interact with the organization, the BU we're going after. And so how do we, how do we tie those guys together? How do we bring them together so that we drive the value of saying, stay in your lane, do what you guys are doing, but here's where we need there to be a partnership. Here's where they are going to— what's in it for them. And here's what's in it for you. Right. And I think those are things that, you know, it doesn't happen on the first call, on the first discovery call. It is a longer-term process, but it's one that, you know, you do want to have sort of your blueprint and your schedule to start going after those conversations.

And what do you think makes a great enterprise rep versus somebody who's more of a transactional, deal-oriented, project-oriented person?

That's a great question. I think a lot of it has to do with having a mutual success plan, understanding that it's not a one-way street. I think it also is important for them to not go back to trusted advisor approach, but for them to help map their internal processes and organizational stripes. So where you're coming in and you're not looking at it as, I hate to say it this way, but it's end of quarter, I've got to hit my number.

Right.

In my world, that doesn't work. I mean, yeah, you can get deals that come in close early, of course. But if we want to have that really large enterprise deal, you have to nurture it and you have to work with it and you have to be patient. And it goes back to the folks that I've seen that have been really good at this is, if you have a plan, and you have an account plan, and you're executing in it, and every week you're, okay, team, how are we doing here? How are we doing here? Then you'll end up in a good spot. And I think that to me separates because you also have to have the confidence and the competence of actually going through that process.

Well, certainly the confidence, because it's a long time gap from the time you start to the time you close.

Yep.

And it's very hilly, and a lot of times it looks like it's dead.

Very true.

And you have to have the confidence that you, you can navigate that terrain. Now, who is typically your champion within an organization? Is there a particular persona that, uh, is it line of business?

Is it—

Yeah, I mean, you know, for, for, for us, it's because we're a very— we're very in a horizontal market, um, you know, typically in our world, it's It's marketing and it's also IT PMO. But, you know, we've seen, you know, folks put together more structure and governance around what they do today. And so it's gone from not just sort of the director, VP, SVP, C-suite within marketing, but also in a bunch of other businesses. But, you know, we tend to want to talk to ultimately the CMO. That, that for us is a really good spot to end to. But, you know, your different VPs, SVPs are ideal because they can sign off on the initial deals. And then as they see the impact and the metrics that we're able to, you know, drive back to the value, then it becomes a wider and a broader enterprise deal.

And where does it tend to get stuck?

That's a, that's a great question. And really, you know, it's, it is the internal strife amongst them. So the, the hardest part, long pole in the tent, is always saying, do you know how your organization does XYZ? And I'll ask 3 people that question. And I'll get one answer, I'll get a second answer and a third answer. And there's very little overlap usually. And to me, that's usually where it gets stuck is because they have to agree to their internal process on how they manage work, right? And I think that applies to anything that anyone's selling. And then once they're in alignment and they've come together with a plan, then things move along faster.

And what red flags do you see early that this deal's either not going to close or it's going to take so long that I need to backburner it?

I would say usually when they— after your first few initial meetings, there is a sort of light switch goes on. They go, oh, I would love it. Yes, we get it. We understand the impact. Let's run with it. And then our next meeting, there's a little bit more dampness. They go, well, it turns out that we actually have to start So when they start to say, turns out we have to start, that then extends the cycle because they recognize that it's a much further process. The other part too is if in our sequence of events, if they don't come back and they don't— this to me is like a 75 to 80% certainty when I give them their sequence of events. We're going to do this, we're going to bring in these stakeholders and sourcing and legal, et cetera. If they come back and say, that's great, that's, that's exactly how we do it today, then I know, well, all right, they haven't spent the time and we're gonna have to coach and work with them on that.

Well, that's it, because if you, if you start with marketing or marketing's your champion, that those personas tend not to like to give bad news. Or they couch bad news to make it seem not as bad.

Yeah, no, I mean, but I think it also depends on the person. I mean, we see an evolution in— I mean, marketing organizations are just within any company, right? They're massive. They used to own their own budget, and now because they're so big and they've got a lot to spend, IT gets involved. So it goes from a, perhaps it's more of a, you know, where we can make decisions to, well, now we got to bring other people in and the other people don't understand what we do. Like, and so they're telling us, look at these other solutions that we already have in place. And it's not a Swiss Army knife. It's not one size fits all. So I think that for us, when it comes to the personas and the ecosystem, there is, you know, understanding, do they know what it's like?

What drives you? Is it solving the puzzle? Is it competing and winning? Is it closing a big deal? What, you know, what's your Starbucks, your caffeine, your driver?

Yeah, right. I was waiting for C, all the above, plus. It's all of that, really. I mean, for me, yeah, I love to win. I think that's an important part. of this role and the persona that we've taken as a career. I like to be able to solve, but I also like to see results. You know, I've had, you know, for me, one of the, one of the, I would say one of the proudest moments I've had is, you know, working with a federal entity who, who does life-changing things and us being part of managing what that life-changing execution is, right? It's something where you hear it in the news and you hear it in the president's speech and they say, we've done this XYZ. And I say, oh, we were part of that. We helped them get to where the president is referencing. That to me is important. And I think that if I go back to what differentiates me from others is I believe in this stuff. It works. It truly works. You've got to iron things out, you've got to do some of the hard work upfront, but it does work. And so that to me is the things that drives me is when I can see that there's an impact in our technology.

And what's the hardest part of your job?

The hardest part of my job, I mean, I think that is setting expectations.

Internally or externally?

Again, C, all the above. I, you know, yeah, I mean, setting the expectations. I mean, it's like, you know, folks want to— if I think of internally, my world today is a lot more complex than it was a year ago when it was just the Workfront family, which was still, you know, large enough. But you do have multiple streams that you have to have conversations with internally to get to the point you want to go, right? And the support is tremendous. It's incredible. It's an incredible experience here. And but it's just like any other enterprise where I think has been my only enterprise company of this magnitude, where you really do have to be able to set expectations for all the stakeholders, whether it's the supporting team or the leadership team. And that those swim lanes are a lot a lot more numerous than they were when I, you know, a year ago for me. That's challenging. But then if I flip it to the customer side, right, it's setting their expectations that, yeah, I know you needed this yesterday, you can have it for at least 4 months, because it takes time. Like, it's not a, it's not a switch.

Yeah.

That's hard, because I want to say yes to everything, but I know that, you know, we have to say no. And just because they're asking doesn't mean it's a good idea. So I've had enough, I've sat in enough conversations where, if I go back to the importance of referenceability, where a client has said to us, hey, as part of the implementation process, start with this feature methodology functionality, which is the complete opposite of what our recommendations are. And as much as we said no to it, they went down the path, they did what they wanted to do. And then 8 months later, we were out of that account. And it doesn't matter how much we document and what you say, like, that's the hard part is telling them yes and no.

Have you been able to preempt that? Because I've run into that a lot. where people want to play with the product before learning how it works and how to play with the product?

Brian, every week. Every week. Because yeah, I mean, you know, everybody wants to do it themselves. And, you know, you, you go from a world where you, you know, everyone knows technology, everyone is comfortable with their laptops and installing applications and But if it's truly a transformative, if it's truly an impactful solution, right, you can't, you can't go learn yourself. You have to have a partner. You have to come together.

Yeah, and I learned that the hard way when my manager says you cannot just give it to them, because when it doesn't work, who do they blame, right? They blame the product. They're not going to blame themselves.

That's right.

And it's not an iPhone. It's not intended to just be able to open by somebody who's never seen it before and they can figure it out intuitively.

That's right, that's right. And, and for the most part, they probably had experiences with our type of product with, you know, years ago, and where they drag the mouse is— and when they click on the button, they expect a certain behavior.

Sure.

But it's over here. Like, they say, oh, it doesn't do it right. So we have to avoid those pitfalls. And so we're really good about saying no to that process and explaining why. It's not because we don't want to, it's because the rate of success is so small when you go at it alone.

Yeah, cool.

Hey, it's been a fun conversation, Serge.

Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Oh, thanks, Brian. It's been— it was a blast for me as well. Uh, I mean, just LinkedIn. Um, that's pretty much all The only place I am. Um, so search Luke up at LinkedIn.

So let me give you an example of how I did it when I moved from software to networking equipment. I started memorizing and documenting all the little acronyms and keywords that people were using, and then the differentiators between those keywords and how we viewed them and how other people could possibly view them and try and find the distinctions. From that, I would then build up an analogy, a story, a little comparison. And this was the game changer for me because I was selling this thing. The company called it a firewall, but the problem was everybody calls everything in what they call the DMZ or the network layer as a firewall, so it didn't differentiate. What I tried to do was say, well, what do we do on top of that? I really had to pull it out of the engineers to tell me, and they kind of gave you that technobabble brush-off that means nothing to anyone but them. It wasn't that they really were being evasive. They were kind of like, well, you should just know this. It's like, well, I wasn't born knowing it. And clearly, I'm a sales guy, maybe not that bright, but reasonably bright. I can learn. And then I started really picking apart the pieces. And then I had this great analogy. And it was much like going to the airport and going through security. And all of a sudden, when I used that analogy during my discussion about why they needed us, The lights went on for them. And it went on for the people at the company because all the other salespeople started copying and using the analogy. And it became the differentiator and people could understand it because it's hard to understand sometimes how we're different and better. And we just assume that people can get it from our slides. They can't. They don't want to in some cases. And this is what I talk a lot about in Start the Conversation, Get the Meeting, is that until people have active pain, they don't want to see the difference. They don't care. They are blind to it. This is why prospecting is so ineffective, because the only people that get it or hear it or want to hear it are the people in active pain. Okay, that makes sense, Brian. But the problem is that the percentage of your market that's in active pain for your solving it with a product like yours is so infinitesimal, less than 1%. We may think it's a lot more, but it probably isn't. But 99% are in latent pain. They have the problem that you solve, but they don't want to see it. Sound familiar? See, like most of you are like, I don't need Winning the Complex Sale because I made quota last year. Okay. You're, you're in latent pain. Did you make as much money as you wanted to, or you could have, say you were a little bit better? A little bit more control over the deals? A little bit more insight into how people make the decision? Of course you could. Everybody could. And how much more would you have to make to justify the course? 1/10 of 1%, maybe? That's about it. If you're making $100K, it's about 1%. If you're making $200K, it's half of a percent. Half a percent and you're playing hard to get with me? Is it worth it, Brian? Of course it is. I don't know, is doubling your income worth it? Even 10% more income? We're salespeople, aren't we? We're coin-operated. And the way to get more coins is to become better at what you do. Making deals bigger, Faster and focusing on the ones that are closable. If you knew all of this, if you could build your system— you don't have a system. Don't kid me. Trust me. I know your system. You respond to the most important thing. That's not a system. That's reactive. To win in the complex sale, you have to be proactive. If I asked you to draw out your sales process, could you?

No.

Of course I could. Of course I could, Brian. Okay, do it. Send it to me. I bet not one person will send it to me. And if they do send it to me, I can tell you what it's going to look like. Discovery call, presentation, demo, evaluation, proposal, close. Yeah, right. How's that working? That's what your managers give you because the only deals they see are the easy deals. They don't get visibility into all the, the mud and muck that we're walking through out there. The marginal deals, the hard deals, the latent pain deals. That's what they don't see. Now, how could you take some of that latent pain and turn it into a closed deal? That's a skill. Do you want to develop that skill? It's not knowledge. Not knowledge. You can have the knowledge, but until you develop the skill, the knowledge is semi-worthless.

Sorry.

Knowing how to do a sit-up is very different than doing 100 sit-ups a day. The knowledge of how to do a sit-up is easy. The doing it— okay, the magic happens in sales with the doing it, starting to find the little distinctions. How do other people Let me hear how other people would handle this. Let me see what others are up against and how they win the deals. What's that worth to you? Uh, I don't know. Just go look in the mirror. I know confirmation bias and hubris are the killers of great sales careers. I see it all day, every day. Just look in the comments of my LinkedIn posts. And the ones that I don't reply to, those are the ones. Okay? That's the signal that they don't get it. I'm not mean to them. I just don't really engage with them. Let them— I'm not the idiot whisperer. I made that proclamation a year ago. Somebody doesn't want help, I understand. Enjoy your life. We'll see you next time.

Okay.

Before I say goodbye, please tell a friend about the show. Check out Scratchpad. Man, this product is so easy to use. People are raving about it. Give it a shot. You can try it for free. If you're a Salesforce user, you're kind of crazy not to use it. It's real simple, and I think you'll like it a lot. Now here's another one: Otter. Have you tried Otter yet? That's it. O-T-T-E-R. There's my spelling. Otter. What it does for you is it just takes your voice and turns it into text. So it's just voice to text, and it does it really well, very effectively. And I think there's a free version, but even like a year-long version, it's like $50. So much more better than those conversational intelligence POSs that are out there, that phony AI. Trust me, I've used them all. They don't do anything. They're just a waste of money. It's just more management oversight and control. What Otter does is let's say you're using Scratchpad and you want to write a note, but maybe you're more of a verbal person, or when you're on the call and you just want to take notes without having to write them down, you just turn Otter on, get the ambient sound off your computer, off the microphone and the speakers. It's really a great tool. Check it out. That and Scratchpad. Tell a friend about the show. We'll see you next time.

Bye.

I was just going to give a bit of a testimonial, if that's all right, just to kick it off. Just—

Only if it's positive.

No, it is positive. It was a— yeah, just because I started the course, I think in June of last year, 2021. I got a few more months left of access, which is good. But I feel like it's been a transformative experience in my own personal and professional life. I was able to go from a period of a low sales slump in the middle of last year, in the summer and early fall, and then really was able to then come back and exceed my target by the end of the, by the end of the 4th quarter. And so the only other thing I would say is that it's also really differentiated me amongst people on the sales team in terms of focus and clarity of what's important. And now I feel really good about what I'm doing in terms of the approach of reaching out to customers and having those conversations and being focused as opposed to just doing a lot of the other busy work on the side, like organizing resources and doing business analytics and all this other stuff. And so it's really been a noticeable difference with our executive team at my company. And so I just want to thank you for the content and for these opportunities. And so I hope that helps if there's anybody new. It's— I'm a work in progress, but it's getting better.

Good.

Yeah.

And you're selling pretty hard stuff.