THE SECRETS TO KEEPING THE DEAL MOVING AND CLIENT TALKING IN B2B SELLING

Hey, before we get into the interview, I want to make sure you're aware of the other podcasts I put out there. Sales Questions, Brutally Honest Answers. So if you're looking for more of a daily Q&A, tips and tricks type of show, that's the show for you. Also, check out our friends over at brevitypitch.com. Brevity Pitch is an AI product that allows salespeople to practice their sales conversations without anybody eavesdropping. on you or judging you. It just lets you warm up and then develop your skills. Because we can think it, we can plan it, uh, but until we open our mouth and practice it, it's a different thing. It's like watching somebody play golf. You gotta play golf to become good at golf. That's what brevitypitch.com does for you. Tell them Brian sent you. Here we go.

Hey, Ivana, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here and be talking to you. So a little bit of background on me. I am an Associate Director here at Breaktime Media. For anybody who might not know what it is that we do and what it is that we sell, we work within the consumer goods space. And we built out this really fun interactive content that helps brands get shoppers to purchase their products. So as far as my job goes, I manage one of the largest territories for Break Time along with some key accounts like General Mills and Unilever. So, you know, like Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Dove soap, all those fun things. And a little bit more about how I got into sales, my background. I was an English major in college. After postgrad, I worked in a recruiting job. That's where I kind of got a taste of the sales sphere. I'm located in Boston, which I'm sure, as you know, is a pretty big tech hub. So from there, I moved over to a more traditional tech company working on that kind of SaaS sales cycle, sales model. Then I moved over to BreakTime. It's a cool place. I get to sell a really, really fun product, work with a lot of really, really fun people. And I've been here for about 4 years now. So really planted my roots and enjoying my time.

And why sales for you? What do you like about it?

The best part for me about sales is the genuine human connection that I get to make with my clients. I have a lot of clients now that I, would consider friends, which is a crazy thing to say. But I love it. That's the part that keeps me logging into the computer day after day and coming back for more. I love the relationship building aspect of sales.

And did the English degree help or was that something that you did because you didn't know what to do or it was just an interest?

Yeah, great question. So I always, Loved English. But when I went to college, I was like, hey, if I can write a good email, I can pivot that to anything. So I kind of leaned on that and I guess it worked out.

Yeah.

And how about the recruiting? Was that something you enjoyed or was that just too hard or too grindy?

I would, it definitely was. I developed a lot of grit when I was doing the recruiting job. It definitely is a grind. I think for me, what made me want to move was just the aspect of being able to own and kind of manage my own business and territory. And Boston was a great place to kind of get my foot wet within that more traditional selling role. So I just kind of pivoted, but it was a cool job. I met a lot of great people and developed a lot of really important qualities that I think have helped me. Throughout the rest of my career.

And you've moved up pretty fast at your current company. What do you attribute that to?

I think, well, of course, I have to say great leadership, great training. I know because my boss is gonna listen to this, of course. But I think I just really hit my stride here. The way that BreakTime, our sales cycle goes is we sell on a campaign-to-campaign basis. Versus, again, some traditional SaaS sales cycles where you're gonna sell a product and pass a client on and they're gonna talk to account teams and you're not really gonna have that interaction again. So I think a lot of my success has come from my ability to nurture and foster those relationships and work with clients continuously over and over again. So I would attribute my success to that. And as I said, Awesome leadership.

Yeah. And who are you selling to as far as a persona? Is it a brand manager? Is it a marketing? Must be somebody in marketing, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So you're spot on. Brand managers and shopper marketing managers are a big piece of who we're going after. I do a lot within the Northwest Arkansas territory. So I talk to a lot of people who are responsible for driving sales at Walmart. So that's a really cool thing. Getting to travel down there is an awesome experience. So definitely unique.

Bragging rights about Arkansas. I like it.

It's a cool place. I was— it's very cool. My— when I first started, my boss was like, hey, you're gonna be traveling down to Arkansas. And I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, I don't know what this is gonna be like, but it is One of the sneakiest, coolest places I've been. I'm actually going down in a couple of weeks to meet with some clients, and then my boyfriend's flying in for the weekend and we're staying for a Razorbacks game. So I'm so excited. It's gonna be a blast.

Yeah, Little Rock is a fun little town.

It's actually— so it'd be Fayetteville, so northwest, so a little bit up in the corner there.

Wow.

Yeah.

How far is that from Little Rock? It's quite a bit, isn't it?

That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that.

And is it hard getting the conversation started with these brand managers? I got to imagine that they're not that accessible.

Yeah. So the cool thing about the territory that I work is it's a very small community. So of course, when I started, my colleagues kind of brokered a lot of introductions for me, which was a great place to start to get your foot in the door. Of course, there's always that gritty mentality with sales. You're cold calling, you're sending out cold emails. But the reputation that our company has, in my opinion, within that space has really helped out a lot. Word of mouth is important. Reputation's important. And I think that's another reason why things have kind of gone in the right direction in terms of my career and, and the success we've seen in that territory specifically.

So when you contact them, they probably have heard of the company before, is that?

Maybe. We're a small company, so not all the time, but sometimes you get lucky. It's somebody you've worked with before, somebody who knows somebody we've worked with before, maybe they've seen something we've done. So it's a combination of both, I would say.

And what's the value prop? What gets their interest?

Yeah, great question. So what we do is we work in this pre-shop space. So getting shoppers engaged with the brand, aware of new products, and getting them on their shopping lists either before they enter the store or understanding that, hey, we live in a much more digital world than we did before COVID So getting them to purchase those products right then and there by being inspired by this really cool content, whether it's great recipes for the holiday season. Everybody's always looking for those, whether it's a really cool sweepstakes. Hey, buy X amount of products and get entered in to win this really cool trip or this really cool prize. So being able to get in touch with consumers before they reach the shelf, whether it's physical or digital, is where that value prop is.

And what's the hardest part of the sale?

The hardest part of the sale is probably— well, the hardest part of the sale, I would say, is all of it. Yeah. I think what's interesting is how much goes into what it takes to actually close that deal. So a lot of times people see the tip of the iceberg, they see, hey, This deal was closed. Awesome. But they don't see, hey, it took 3 different proposals to put together with this person and a year and a half of meetings and countless phone calls. So I think the hardest part is just staying persistent and just having that hope that, hey, like at some point, like this will work out. So making sure you have that mindset because there's so much that goes on beneath the surface that I think a lot of people don't have that purview into.

So I'm speculating that you can probably get interest or curiosity about it since it's new and they want to know about it. But is it after that then? Because marketing people, they're like cats with the little red light. As soon as it moves, they move and they're not the stick with it types.

Yeah. So with our platform, so we have a really high retention rate, which is awesome. So once people do run a program with us, run a campaign with us, see really great results, there's a high propensity that they'll typically run another campaign with us, which Is so cool because if you think about marketing, there's so many different periods within a year that shoppers get activated. So if somebody wants to run a program with us for game day, it does really well. Hey, well, I actually have this awesome back-to-school program coming up. So maybe we can put together some ideas for that. So we tend to see a lot of customers come back once they have run that initial program. So once you get over the hump, We tend to see a lot of the same faces, which again is one of the things I love about the job. So I get to work with a lot of people over and over again.

And do you use those time of year events as a way or a reason to stay in touch with the prospects?

Yeah, absolutely. So big tentpole events, like I mentioned, like game day, holiday, Halloween, New Year's, Valentine's Day. If you— there's so many different reasons to reach out and stay in front of people. Even the aspect of micro occasions is big, like a Taco Tuesday, another great reason to be able to get in touch and reach out to people, another reason for them to be marketing. So there's a lot of things if you really dig deep and dive into, hey, these are the pulses that people care about. There's a lot more info than I feel like if you're not involved in the marketing space, you would find. Yeah.

And what's their personal win in it? Because they've got a lot of different things they could spend their time and their energy on.

Yeah. So for our clients, you mean?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because you call them, I'm sure they're excited. They see it, they go, yeah, that's a great idea. But it's a change in how they do their job.

Yes. Yes. So that's a very fair point. The personal win, I think, I think a lot of people crave to do something a little bit more creative and a little bit different. Understanding we're working with a lot of big retailers like Walmart, like Target, like Kroger. There is this battle that we face with retail media networks. So Walmart's own media network or kind of like Target's own media network. And these clients are required to spend X amount of money with these specific vendors. So I think there is a craving to do something a little bit different and do something a little bit creative. And our campaigns are fun. They really are. Who wouldn't want to take a quiz to figure out like what your superhero persona is or what recipe you should try out for dinner? So I think that's a big win for a lot of people. They get to build something that's pretty cool and pretty different.

Yeah. And how have you kind of solved the problem of staying in touch with them over that period? They see a demo, they like it, send us a proposal, but it's not really going anywhere. You're not hearing back, but you want to keep the ball rolling.

Yeah. So how we tackle that is Always making sure to stay in front of them with new stuff, whether it's new capabilities, a new campaign that we've launched that might be with a peer or a similar brand, one of their colleagues, and staying in front of them. That I think is the most important thing because you're competing against so many different vendors in a space that the most important thing is making sure they're like, oh, hey, BreakTime, like They actually just reached out to me. They could be really cool for this as they continue to get briefed on new plans, new initiatives. So that's a big way to kind of stay in front and keep in touch with people.

Yeah. And what was the hardest thing you learned along the way in this space? Because like recruiting is, it's kind of, you can kind of tell, right? The person's interested, if they're interested in hiring them, it's transactional. This sounds like it's strategic. It's kind of build a relationship, get them comfortable with it, understand what it takes to get them to change.

Baby steps. Exactly. And I think that's been the biggest thing for me and the biggest learning. And my biggest challenge is finding a way to position yourself more as a strategic partner and a consultant versus somebody who's, hey, I just want to sell you this thing and then Never talk to you again. So I think making sure that you're understanding not only your product, but understanding the industry as well is something that it's— I mean, it's still— I'm still learning new things every day. Things change so quickly. It's crazy to keep up with. But once you're able to do that and position yourself as more of a partner versus a vendor, I think that's been a big challenge for me moving from something like a recruiting job to where I am now.

And is that why the company kind of made you full lifecycle instead of, you know, separating you after the transaction and then it hands over to customer success and then somebody else kind of manages it after that?

So all of our reps, so we all function kind of like that full lifecycle rep. We do pass it over to our amazing client services team when we're building and executing the campaign. But sales always has a hand in that. So So checking in with clients mid-campaign, making sure everything's going how they're expecting, making sure they're feeling comfortable and reviewing results with them and just kind of always making sure like, hey, we're still a friendly face, we're not sending you out to pasture and you're not gonna see us again. So that's something that all of our reps do and just the way the business works differently than a traditional tech company.

And what do you think is your strongest sales characteristic?

I keep going back to this, but I think the ability to build those relationships. It's fun. It's a blast. I get to be myself. And I think if you can be yourself and do something that you love, you're going to be successful. So that's been my strongest sales characteristic. And I think I've really developed a lot in terms of being more of that strategic partner and filling that role. So I think a combination of those 2 things, because you can, people can like you as much as they like you, but unless you know what you're talking about when it comes from a product and industry standpoint, why are they really gonna work with you? So kind of backing up, hey, we have this awesome relationship and now I have the knowledge and the insight to be able to back up from a business perspective why you should be working with us.

And is that how you build it is off of your industry knowledge as opposed to, you know, people start with rapport building stuff about the weather, the sports, the economy, whatever it is you both care about. But yeah, that's a nice start, but it's not I'm not.

It's, it's, and, and I definitely start there. I start with the weather. I start with the latest Bravo show or whatever I've seen on TikTok lately, a podcast I'm listening to. Of course, you gotta start somewhere. But eventually, when you're talking to clients, there's always gonna be that transition to business at some point. So making sure that you're ready for it and able to integrate it into a conversation in a pretty organic way is an important quality in my opinion for a seller.

And what do they want from a salesperson?

I mean, I hope they want what I have to offer, but I think—

From you because they're looking for advice, they're looking for what other people are doing, they're looking Yeah, a little bit of both.

I think understanding how you sit within this big sphere of all these vendors, like, hey, what do you offer versus this other vendor that we might be working with? Or how do you fit within this ecosystem of this big marketing campaign that we're running? Like, we're using this, we're using that. How can you help fill a gap or tie things together? So I think that's a piece of it as well. So, hey, where do you fit within this full experience that we're developing?

And what skill or ability would take your game to the next level?

I think there's a lot. I feel like learning is like— it's always learning, always changing, always developing. But, um, I think just being really confident is, is something key, and it's something I'm always working on, making sure that you're having that Confidence to back up what you know. And again, it's, it's, I'm relatively early on in my career. So I think it's something that I'm really starting to hone in on and develop. But confidence for me has always been a big thing, making sure I'm maintaining that and exuding that when I am talking to clients.

Is there something you do before the call that kind of gets you there?

I always, I'd like to put on a good song. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Get in the zone. It's October, season of the witch has been very big for me. I know. But I think just kind of getting into a good headspace before you get into a call helps clearing your mind. And at the end of the day, I get to sell something fun. I'm selling these really cool marketing thing campaigns and, you know, just reminding myself, hey, it's not that serious, not the end of the world. So maintaining a little bit of fun and balance. Yeah, exactly. Perspective is important.

And now what would, how would you judge selling to marketing? Because when you did recruiting, who did you recruit for? What persona?

Yeah. So it was a lot of IT folks. Wow.

That's a contrast.

Yes, it definitely is. It was, that was a huge curve learning a lot of stuff on the, on the dev side and the language that they speak. So yeah, big contrast there.

And they're not social.

I think it depends on the person. Marketers definitely are much more social. So that's always a fun element to it.

And how did you build rapport with them? Because developers are, you know, they're probably not picking up the phone, or are they?

Yeah, sometimes if you get lucky, if you find the right person to pick up the phone. I definitely think rapport building is a bigger piece of it in the role I'm in now than it was before when you're kind of calling people off Monster or Indeed and you're like, hey, I have this job, I think you could be great for it. So I think that rapport building is not less important, but things can be a little bit more direct because, you know, hey, this is this transaction that this person's looking for. But I love chitchat. So I love working with marketers.

Yeah, I guess more open. And is there a particular KPI that you sell to or is it just Kind of the newness, the uniqueness, the more modern way of engaging with consumers?

Yeah. So with a majority of our campaigns, almost all of them driving conversion is the biggest KPI. So making sure we're able to back up our results with conversion metrics. So things like sales measurement studies, that's the most important thing. Of course, things can be fun, they can be great, you can love working with somebody, but if it doesn't work, then why are you gonna continue that relationship? So we always make sure to back up all of our really fun campaigns with a lot of really great data.

Yeah. And how about as far as their internal approval process? Does it require integration with any of their IT or is it totally independent of them connecting it up with their infrastructure or?

Yeah. So it's, it doesn't need to be connected with any infrastructure, which, which oftentimes makes things a lot easier. We kind of pass back this content that they can have as their own microsite or their landing page or send it out via influencer content. But that's not a huge kind of like tech backend undertaking. So that definitely makes it a lot easier being able to kind of integrate within our own properties. But yeah, so not too much on the— not a heavy lift on the tech side.

And is it economic pushback that you get, or is it not their bag? Or what's the pushback that they give you?

The timing?

Is it—

Yeah, I think oftentimes it ends up being, like you're saying, like a budget restriction. Like, hey, we got this funding pulled, or we don't have enough funding right now. We'll revisit this for maybe this initiative, or we have XYZ going on. We might have some more budget available there. So I think that's the biggest objection That we, that we do come across day to day.

Do you feel it's real or do you feel it's kind of just a reason not to take action?

I maybe, maybe I'm, maybe I'm gullible, but I think it is real. Like I mentioned, we're up against these big retail media networks like a Walmart Connect, like a Roundel, like an AB451, and they require these brands to spend with them. So And that spend's only increasing year over year. So the piece of the pie that we're fighting for keeps getting smaller and smaller. So I think when you have the right initiative, when the budget is there, when the stars align, then it works out great. But I think sometimes those bigger entities are taking some budget away from opportunities that, you know, we could partner with WISE on.

And is it a percentage of revenue on the shopper that you make your money off? Or is it just a purchase all inclusive?

Yeah. So it's just purchase all inclusive. So just kind of one flat rate for the campaign.

Yeah. So does that require you talking to like the budget holder or the CMO or?

So a lot of times the people that we work with have their own budget that they're responsible for. So Oftentimes they have that budget. So they're kind of the budget holder, they're the marketer, like all wrapped in one person. If we need to, we'll always kind of loop in higher-up people because, of course, like anything, there's an approval process whether they have to take this to like the head of their team or somebody on the brand side to get all of this approved. But oftentimes the people that we're talking to kind of hold their own budget.

Yeah. And where do you see yourself taking your sales career? Where would you like to go? Manage people, bigger deals?

For now, just keep staying the course. So I think the bigger deals breaking further into the accounts, the accounts that I'm given. So expanding within the territory that I have, I think over the next 5 years is something that I really wanna hone in and focus on. As I said, I was an English major. I took a lot of education classes. I love working with people. So maybe one day managing people could be a great thing. But for now, I think to be a great manager, you have to get really good at your craft. So that's what I wanna fine-tune in the short term to hopefully have more opportunities down the line.

And what makes a great sales rep in this space?

I think above Everything. Well, 2 things come to mind. I think resilience is important. Of course, there's so much rejection that happens in sales. Being able to bounce back is— if you don't have that, I don't know. I don't know why you could be in sales. I don't know if you could be. But I think above all else, humility. The most successful people I know are extremely humble people. I think understanding that there is more to learn and you're never gonna be at the top of your game, being able to push yourself that extra 5%. day over day to achieve kind of your full potential is really important. So above all else, I think the most successful people are humble people. As long as you work hard, you be good and you do good, I think that's kind of the key to success.

And do you have a, like the song before the call, let's say the call goes bad. Do you have something after that type of call to that keeps you from going down? Another song or chocolate or a break?

Chocolate, definitely. Again, Halloween, I have a bad sweet tooth. I have a whole thing of Reese's I'm probably gonna break into after this. But yeah, chocolate, chocolate's the cure-all.

Cool. Hey, Yvonne, I really appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

Yeah, feel free to go to LinkedIn, connect with me there. Happy to chat and Thanks again so much for having me. This is a blast.

And to become great at sales, the best way is to model somebody who already has become good at sales and to hear other people who have become great at sales and the journey that they're going through, the false beliefs, Uh, the, the misnomers, the mindset issues, all of this stuff that gets in our way between where we are and the income that we want. Let's face it, we're in sales because we're money motivated, we're competitive, we want to be better every day than we were yesterday. And how do we do that? Um, just really, you know, read a book, uh, listen to a podcast. That's good, good start. I like it. But then you have to take action. And then you want both tactical and strategic ideas. You want mindset. You want strategy. You want to understand how companies buy. You want really deep content and examples, case studies, so that you can learn from other people's mistakes.

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