THE SECRETS TO PICK WHICH SALES MANAGER TO WORK WITH IN B2B SALES

I talk a lot about being a salespreneur, thinking about, you know, personal responsibility about your career, your income, all the things that we have control over. And that is what we should focus on. But guess what? We have to still work for somebody if we're in B2B sales. Now, the most common Frustration I hear from salespeople and what I felt when I was selling was if you get a bad manager, and some of this you have control over, some of it you don't, and it's really difficult. I get it. I lived it. I've been on it on both sides, even, even when I was a sales manager, sales leader. It was really—

it is hard.

It's a really tough job. And you got to understand what they're going through because it kind of explains why they're being a micromanager or just difficult or pressure-oriented or very anxious all the time. Because their quota is over-assigned as well. It's much higher than reality would justify. So guess what? They put pressure on other people to get magic to happen. And that pressure sometimes helps, but a lot of times it hurts. It rushes things that aren't ready to be rushed. And today we're going to be talking about this because the part that we do have control over is when we switch jobs or when we decide to work for anybody or with somebody, we should really Think this through from the beginning because if we don't, we end up having a lot of those 6 to 9 month things on our resume. And when we interview with the next contestant, we have to explain the story. And a hiring manager, the last thing they want to hear is how you didn't like the last manager. And some people get it. Most don't. And we're going to get into a lot of the issues today in this interview. This was one that you really do want to plan, especially when you're switching jobs. And you may be like desperate and you'll take anything. I get it. But if you can really think through this during the interview process and not lock into a micromanager or some— anybody That doesn't manage the way that you like to be managed. You know, for me, I like hands-off. I like somebody to let me run, let me do my thing. And you may not be there. Maybe you want some direction, some help, some coaching, and that's good too. But you want to make sure that it's accurate coaching. Instead of just, oh, just call the CEO, or let me call them. You know, the, the fast trigger of a manager.

Let's get into this.

It's always a fun conversation, but the key thing is to really learn from this when you're taking a job, because it is the number one thing that I hear from reps on LinkedIn is, what do I do if my manager's babysitting me? Or micromanaging me or in my way. I hear you.

It's everywhere. Here we go.

Hey, and the best way to keep them off your back is to sell a lot. And the way to sell a lot is to get a big pipeline. So start the conversation, get the meeting, is the right one for you? If your pipeline's a little thin, if you're looking for new creative ways of exploding your network. And your conversations per day without cold calling and spamming? Yeah, there is a way. The humanistic way. No, it's not about referrals or social selling. It's about connecting with strangers in a way that they want to be connected. So sign up today before the prices go up. Go to b2brevenue.com. If you— there's a couple videos there. If they don't answer all your questions and you're ready to sign up, You can submit a question on the website or schedule a call with one of the people on the team. Let's get into the interview. I'll sum it up at the end.

Hey, Dustin. So, what in your mind makes a great sales leader?

Yeah. Good morning, Brian. I mean, looking back, you can definitely remember those great sales leaders and the not-so-great sales leaders. Looking back, there's definitely some things that stand out, and I think you have to look at it from how are they a good sales leader for the organization, but also for the reps on their team. So there's kind of a couple different perspectives, but I definitely think back fondly on some of those great sales leaders, and there's a lot of things that kind of stick out. But you know, a few of them are, I think they have an eye for good talent. I think a lot of those sales leaders will They can really pick up who are gonna be good sales reps and not, and they hire people that are probably smarter and better than them at some point. A lot of them are probably not a micromanager, so they kind of let their top people just run and do their thing and help them when they need it. And then I think another one that stands out is they wanna put their people in places to be successful. So they'll try to move some parts around to put those sales reps in the right territories and get them in front of Leadership, you know, maybe that sales rep wants to move up the ladder, so they'll put them in positions to, you know, look good internally. So those are just a few things that stand out, but there's a lot that goes into it, that's for sure.

Well, you raised an interesting point there because a lot of them think they're doing what's right for the company, but it isn't right for the rep. And a great sales leader, what's right for the rep should be right for the company. You know, too many of them are focused just on their interface to the company, meaning how they look to the company. And the number is one of those things, but it's the admin, the behavior, the uniformity. And I think that's what makes a bad sales leader. I mean, I've worked at 12 companies in my career. And I got to tell you, 2 of the 12, maybe 3, 1 great, 2 good, and the rest okay. A couple of really, really bad ones.

That's not a good ratio.

It's a terrible ratio. And let's face it, when I get, you know, I get bombarded with questions on LinkedIn and it's almost always about a bad manager. And it's never, oh, they won't let me do enough time for CRM, or they won't, uh, enough time for enablement or stuff. It's always the BS, the stuff that moves revenue down. And my key point to sales leaders, your job is to increase revenue, not decrease it.

Yeah.

There's no neutral to increase revenue. You're not selling. You have to enable, help support the people who are selling, sell. And every minute that they're not selling is a minute that's a waste. They might as well be on vacation.

Yeah, no, you're, you're spot on there. I think a lot of them, End up being micromanagers, and that might just be the way they're brought up within that corporation and all the different KPIs and tactics that they're supposed to do, quote unquote. But they get kind of sucked into the numbers game and how many calls have you made, looking at the dashboard, that type of thing, versus some of the external things that, that really matter. So that, that stands out. And then just micromanagers in general. I mean, I, I get it. If you're not performing and you're not hitting your numbers, at some point you're gonna get micromanaged more. But I, I feel like there's a lot of 'em out there that are just all over. reps all the time, and then that discourages the reps. Then they're focused on the wrong things. They're not selling out in the field, to your point, and it just kind of is a ripple effect. And another one that stands out is that they probably don't really listen and try to help the sales reps. I think a lot of the good people I've been around, they're able to kind of bash heads and make things happen internally, because a lot of times if you want to get a deal closed, you have to make all these moving parts internally. Those good managers or leaders know how to navigate that chaos and that kind of political landscape internally. The bad ones either don't listen or they're scared to do that, or they don't know how, which kind of leaves their reps out to dry as well. That's another thing that I had a few managers that were just, you can say what they want about some of the other things they did, but they would make things happen internally for me when I needed something done, which was a big, that's all that really mattered, you know, to close the deal for everybody, right?

That's their job.

Mm-hmm. Right?

It's not the rep's job to fix the company. It's the sales leader's job to fix the company. If pricing isn't right, functionality, support, legal. And if the manager pushed back, so now we don't do it that way here. It's like, okay, you don't want the deal? And one manager, you know, he used to push back, oh, they didn't, you didn't fill out all the paperwork. It'd be the last day of the quarter. I go, fine, don't book it till next quarter. Oh, it got booked, right? It's like, you can push back on me, but I know what's driving this. I can wait another month for the pay. Can the company wait another month for a couple hundred K? No, they can't. So they'll book it. And the stuff that gets done the last day of the quarter is stuff that would never get done the first day of the quarter. And managers have, if you want to get into management, you have to understand it's a thankless job. I've been there and it wasn't my bag and I didn't really like the selling internally. But if you are a sales leader, you have to sell internally. It's your job. And I remember comp plan things. When I was a manager, one rep quit or got transferred, and instead of hiring somebody, I just gave the territory to the other reps.

Smart.

Yeah. But I got hit on the head.

No, no, you got—

and I didn't allocate the quota. And they said, oh, you got to allocate the quota. And I go, I'll hold that quota for the person I hire. So I was underassigning quota and guess what happens? The reps are making more money, they're happier, they're selling more, revenue goes up. And I know if I hire somebody, it's going to be 6, 9 months before there is a real contribution there. And I kept, oh no, no, you either have to hire somebody or reassign the quota. I'll hire someone. Don't worry. Most managers would redistribute the quota or not give the territory to them. And I told the reps, I go, this is kind of, you know, take it for what it's worth. If you can close something, great. If you can't, let me know. And it doesn't matter. It's your choice. Player's choice, right? And a lot of that stuff, most managers, oh, I wouldn't stick my neck out for that. And it's like, your job is to stick up your neck. You know, and your job is to defend me because I'm out there battling for this. And if I happen to hurt someone's feelings at home office and somebody's got rubbed the wrong way and goes to HR, Brian raised his voice to me. Yes, I'll go apologize later, but explain to them what we're trying to do here. And that's what a great manager does.

Yeah, you're right. You're right. And to the manager's defense, a lot of times they do get sucked into just that whole hiring process because they're constantly just chasing new hires, getting them onboarded. That takes up a lot of time because you want it to go right those first couple months, and that kind of distracts them probably from other more important things. And then another problem I've seen is that companies tend to want to promote The top sales reps to be managers. Just because you're a top sales rep doesn't mean you're gonna be good at managing people and leading people. But automatically everyone always wants to promote. I'm sure that's why they promoted you. I know that's why they always wanted me to get promoted. They assume because you're a top sales rep that you can be a good leader, but that's just not always the case. And a lot of times people don't want to do that because they can't make as much money either, for whatever reason.

Mm-hmm.

And a lot of industries, you don't, you can make good, very comfortable money, bonus, that type of thing. But it's not with all the chaos and stuff that you have to deal with. It's probably not worth it being compared to being an individual contributor. So yeah, I had to look at many times I was trying to become that leader and manage people, but then I realized I could make more money as an individual contributor with less stress and less internal chaos. So I kind of went that route as well. So yeah, there's just a few thoughts that popped up while you're talking.

That's it. Because if, if you do want to go into management, you got to understand that you've got to relinquish these deals. You can't, be the quarterback on 10 reps deals. You can help, you can support, but you have to enable and help them close those deals because you can't be in that many places and you can't take the credit for it either. You've got to help them close it. And I think in that brain-dead idea of, okay, you gotta go hire 10 people if you don't have a queue of people that you want to hire, you're going to spend your whole next 3, 6 months hiring people. And by the time you do, you're behind on your number. And I've had that before where they go, oh, go hire 5 people.

No, no thanks.

They're not going to be happy. The reps on my team aren't going to be happy. I'm not going to be. Nothing's going to work. And it's like, oh, well, we're building a bit. Well, you go hire them, right?

Yeah.

You know, you don't hire A players fast. You have, it's like building a team in sports. You gotta like, okay, you gotta go scout. Who do I want? You gotta talk to them. You gotta start building it up.

You know, the old show up and boot camp and let's see who la—

it's not Cutco, right? You can't have that little webinar or seminar where 100 people come in and you keep 10. That's not great leadership, but great leaders out there recruiting all the time, working with the team, say, who else do you know? And then protecting your A players, your Price's Law reps, the ones who are generating all the revenue instead of this uniformity that I've always seen.

Yeah. I, so the first company I worked for, it was actually pretty, pretty Pretty genius. I don't know if it would work these days, but they, their whole thing was about hiring from within. So they were not big on hiring outside of the company. So they had this huge bench, kind of like AAA baseball team, always in the background of people that wanted to get promoted to the next role. So they didn't hire, I say, 10% outside the company. The rest was all internal. So you knew if you were doing a good job, you could get promoted, get that better territory, that better opportunity. And it was someone that was already familiar with the company, maybe not in depth, but the ramp up time was much less. So that was an interesting one, but it also gets to the point where you don't have a lot of outside perspectives, which can be a bad thing at some point. But I thought that was kind of unique. What, so those people that you thought were good leaders, was there anything that stood out? Or I guess you only had a couple examples, but was there anything in particular that those people did that really stood out to you?

Yeah, they had a passion for it. Where you knew that they would be an okay rep, but when they became a leader, they just lit up because they got, they got really busy on stuff they liked to do. See, as a rep, you're kind of MacGyver. You're constantly trying to figure out how to get the order done and how to crush your number. And it's very stressful and stuff. But, you know, the best leader I had, you know, he was tough, but he would talk through deals. He had a passion for the deals. He knew what we were up against. He didn't play games. And you felt like you could speak at the same level, like you were talking to somebody who had your back, who wanted this to succeed as much as you did. And contrast that with a bad leader. If it goes south, they start blaming you. I had this one leader, although he wasn't bad. Yeah, I remember he'd come out and we, he did a great presentation. He loved being in front of people and he always did good, but it was the initial presentation. Nothing had to be proved. There was no competition yet. You know, he was very entertaining, engaging. And he goes, how'd that go? It went really well. And then we get into the technical eval and we'd be behind. And he goes, well, Brian, I was there. It went perfect, didn't it? It sounded like Trump, right? Perfect call. What went wrong? You must have messed up. I go, you think? Yeah. They were ready to buy. And I said, Why don't you try it first? No, it's like a lot happens. He wasn't like, hey, so what are you up against? How do we get this back on track? Where do you think it went wrong?

How—

who's against us? Who's for us? He eventually did that, but it was kind of a blame game instead of, you know, encouraging and supporting and helping.

Yeah, and there's probably 2 issues with that. First off, some of the managers Maybe haven't done that role, or it's been so long that they've done that role that they forget or don't remember all the stuff you go through. And then also, I think they have to fall on the sword for you. So the good managers I remember, I didn't get a lot of that noise. If something bad happened, he would he would take the brunt of it to his superiors, whoever it was, versus letting it come back to me. So that's a great point that those good leaders, they they will fall on the sword for their people so that those reps don't have to deal with all the. internal chaos. But yeah, that's a great one for sure.

Yeah, because, and he was, and I think the key point with leaders is that their vantage point on deals, they only look at the best deals as they should. They shouldn't be looking at the C-level deals. They're looking at the A-level deals, the deals that could close that quarter. So that's all they see. And when you show them a B deal, they think it's a B deal because of something you did. Not that you have a competitor in there that used to work there, or someone's cousin, or somebody has got short timers there and they're going to leave. So there's not really much momentum behind it, or the company doesn't get it, or there's a lot of turmoil there. Well, that, it doesn't look like this deal over here. That's already, it's a repeat deal. It's already in procurement. They have a legal issue that's different. Or, or you have managers. I remember this one, he was the worst of the worst. What he'd come down and I'd have 3 meetings planned and let's say one was for telco, one was for finance, and one was for government. After each meeting, He would say, well, we, if it went well, he goes, we should go after more telcos. If it went bad, he goes, well, we shouldn't go after financials. Maybe financials isn't our market. Then we go to government. Wow, that they seem big. We should just do government. You should just focus on— and I'm like, it was like strategy du jour or strategy 3 times a day. And it was like no thought process, no strategic thinking. No, like how do we compound this or prioritize this? It was just shiny object syndrome. Yeah.

It's like those, those ride-alongs or work withs, whatever you wanna call it. Every industry says something different. It's, it's a dog and pony show a lot of times. Like the managers have to check it off the box so that they're saying they're out in the field with the reps. I will say sometimes if I had a good manager, it could be worth it, you know, to bring them in to make, make them feel special to get it to the next step. If that manager's good. in front of the customer. But if they're not, then you're just stressing out. You have to set up these meetings, but you don't really want to. You don't even want your manager to be there because they might mess something up or say something wrong. So you have to do a lot of coaching yourself beforehand. So that, that just made me think of all those ride-alongs or work lists. And a lot when I was in medical device, it was 2 days back-to-back days of just meetings, meetings, meetings. So definitely a dog and pony show a little bit. But I had some success with that. I had sometimes where it was just It was just a waste of time because I didn't want to set up all those meetings and it wasn't really moving the needle with anything. So it's funny how a lot of companies want people to be out in the field. It changed a little bit with the pandemic, but they want the managers to be out there, which I do like managers getting their hands dirty a little bit. I think that shows some good things with the sales reps, but it can be detrimental too, depending on the manager.

Well, I mean, being out in the field doesn't have to be in front of the client. It could be Yeah. Sitting down, talking through the deals, working through how to position things, how to, you know, edge out the competition, you know, kind of rally up the rep, make sure the rep's engaged, excited about it. If they're not, what's in the way? What are they going through? How they can help? And And this guy had this other thing. I remember once he'd fly us in for the QBR, and then before you got home, there'd be a voicemail about him coming down to do a quarterly strategy meeting. And I'm like, didn't we just do that? It was like, it was literally the next week. And I was like— I didn't even return his call. I'm just like— and also, I think bad managers think that his team or their team is your team. And it's like, I could care less what the guy in New Jersey does. It doesn't affect me, doesn't help or hurt me. It's autonomous to me. I'm not going to do anything to hurt the person, but If I'm not out there, it's not my job to help him. It's your job to help him. Doesn't work for me, works for you. I can't tell you the number of times we go, who does this person work for? You, you help him. I got my own job to do. And he goes, oh, well, that's not a very team player. I go, you want me to help fly him down? He can come on calls with me. I'm not going up there. It's like, it was just this sense of him delegating his job to other people and it's like, are you gonna gimme quota?

Yeah. Yeah. And that's probably the downside of if you're an A player and good, then they, they want to give you more responsibility. 'Cause I know many times I was the de facto trainer. Sometimes they would pay a little bit for that. And I've always been an overachiever, so it's partly my fault too. Like, always wanted to do more and say yes to stuff, but Yeah, going back to what you're talking about, not many leaders or managers will just sit down and talk about deals, try to help push it along, like beat it up, like, hey, what's going good? What's going wrong? Like, what are some things we can improve? And very rarely does that ever happen. But if you do find a leader that does that, then that's definitely a game changer. But really, I think they should be coaching and doing feedback like that. I mean, that's how I see good leaders. That's what they should be doing, trying to make make their reps better. And then each rep is different too, so you can't treat Brian the same way you treat Dustin. So I think everyone has this blanket approach to everybody, but each rep could be different, especially depending on the part of the country. But just their personality and their sales style is probably completely different too. So I think having a unique perspective for each person, not many people are able to do that. They just have this blanket approach of whatever, maybe just pounding them for calls and numbers and pipeline is probably what it is.

Well, they always do the You know, I've seen it a million times. They get promoted to manager and they want to go hire 5 people who look as close like them as possible in background, physical appearance, sales style, personality. And okay, well, you can't clone yourself. And do you really think that strategy is going to work? First, can you find that person? Second, are they really going to be like that? And I always, I'd always ask, you know, describe your ideal candidate to me. And this one guy described himself, oh, you know, somebody who sold in the financial space, sold about $6 million, 200% of quota, you know, just has a real passion, willing to put 60, 70 hours of work in a week. And I'm like, that sounds like you. And I took the job and it was a big mistake because he came down and he was a— never worked outside of Manhattan. And I was, we were going down south to Atlanta, North Carolina. And you know what a guy out of Manhattan sounds like in North Carolina? Probably 100 miles an hour.

Yeah.

And in the meeting, the manager says, have you ever sold vacuum cleaners? And it was the biggest insult, but my manager didn't get it. He took it as a compliment. And I was like, it wasn't a compliment. It was like he threw a bag of dirt in the room and said, let's, let's take care of this. Yeah, I think you also have to be really good during the interview process. This is the only time you get to judge. You know, how well do you like that style and does it match your style? You know, because some people like a high-touch manager. I don't, but some people do. Yeah, I don't. Um, some people need that. Some people need a lot of guidance, a lot of direction, and other people just want to be left alone. Some people care about comp, some people care about career. But you gotta make sure that hiring manager makes those sounds and has that background.

Yeah, that's, I mean, probably the biggest thing of a sales leader is having that eye for talent and hiring the right people. And then once you get those A players there, keeping them happy, keeping them engaged, keeping them excited with that passion. But I, that's probably the number one thing, because if you can't, if you don't have an eye for talent, which can be tough. There's a lot of factors with that, then it's going to be really hard to be successful because I think you should have better people underneath you than you. Like, I would want to hire smarter people than me and different strengths than I have to kind of get, get things done. But it can be tough with the interview process. I've been in some interview processes in med device. For whatever reason, they— it's like getting a CEO job. You have 10 rounds of interviews. That's just how med device does it. It's very old school. But by the end of that interview process, They're testing you to see, do you really want this job in this territory where it's really hard to get into these companies? So they want to see how above and beyond are you going. That's kind of how you would treat the customers. And it's just this whole kind of game that they play to see if you can get there. But it's brutal, especially if you're balancing another full-time job. But I think a lot of times that first interview or conversation, you can get a good sense of, do you like that person? Are they— they kind of have that it factor? Do they have the passion? And I think At the end of the day, you want to have, you want to see that passion that they want to work for your company and whatever, you know, problem you're solving. I feel like that's probably the most important thing too. Just going back to when I used to do a lot of interviews.

Yeah. Because I think most managers hire for obedience, not competence. And obedience and selling has nothing to do with one another. Actually, an obedient sales rep I'm not sure they sell very well. It's much more for service.

No.

Customer success, maybe, not for sales. And a lot of managers don't know what to do if you don't have obedience. And, you know, and also if, if you hear data-driven, you know what the job's gonna be. You're gonna, you're not gonna be in sales. You're gonna be a historian keeping track of things for them. that they won't read out of the CRM. And this is— and also, what is their sales approach? And are they open to different styles? A lot aren't.

Yeah, that's the key. I made that mistake going to an organization that had old school cold calling, phone calls, metric, like how many have you done today? And There could be people that are open to it. I mean, if you prove yourself and you are successful another way, I feel like you should give that person a chance. So if I had someone underneath me that they're all about making 100 calls a day, but then they actually perform and they like doing that and they have that grit, I don't know many people that can do that anymore. But hey, if it works, I'll let you, let you do your thing for— it's probably not sustainable. But yeah, when I went one place, I didn't really get enough time to get established and all they cared about was the numbers and how many calls did you make and Et cetera, et cetera. They didn't care about any of the strategy or the long-term vision, which I knew was the only way to get anything done. But, you know, lessons learned, I guess. Lessons learned. But you can see those signs beforehand. You need to ask those questions in the interview process too, going to the, the rep side. So you kind of know what kind of leader or manager you're going into. Because if you don't want to do the numbers game, I would stay away from that for sure.

And I think that's the norm today, not the exception.

Yeah.

Yeah. And the longer someone's been away from sales, the more apt they are to go for the numbers versus the talent. And we're not in marketing, we're in sales. How we get the prize, there's no points for style in sales, right?

Yeah. No, you're right.

No, no, we say, well, it's a small deal, but how you did it was so magical. No, they don't care. No. So what other questions have you used in the interview to kind of tell you if it's going to be a great leader or not?

Yeah, I always— I think it's key when you're in the interview to have a lot of just 3 or 4 really good questions at the end. I think the best interviews I've ever been a part of is where you end up as the interviewee kind of interviewing the manager, right? And you're talking to them, asking them 4 or 5 questions at the end. But I I always like to hear their story, kind of what drives them, what are their aspirations within that organization, like where do they see themselves years down the road? And then, you know, why is this position open? That's a good one to ask for sure. And then what traits do they see the top salespeople doing well with that company? Or what are the few things that really make people successful at that company? And that's usually what I ask. Try to put— I think you gotta put them on the spot if you wanna have a good interview. You need to put be interviewing them by the end, and that usually bodes well.

That was a little fun conversation. So what is it you should look like— look for when you're switching jobs or when you're talking with a potential manager? You should really, before you do that, sit down and make a list of the things that really are no-gos. For you, things that you just cannot deal with. And then kind of things that annoy you, get in your way, demotivate you, distract you from the potential that you have. And keep those in mind because if those red flags come up in those interviews, you really have to think through, am I going to enjoy working for this person, with this person? And if they have some of those characteristics, you have to think through, okay, is it worth it? You know, the company is nice, the product is good, the territory is fine, but you deal with the manager every day. The manager is your interface to the company, and if it's a great manager, that can really make the difference. I've, I've had a couple of great managers, a couple of okay managers, and a lot of less than great managers. They weren't bad people. They were just not skilled at leadership. Some wanted everyone to sell like them. Some people just end-run the reps and just do whatever they want into your accounts without your Collaboration. Some just don't care about you as a human being and just look at the pipeline and the CRM and judge you solely from that. They don't ask you about, so are you getting any leads? What's the territory like? I know it's new. You don't get any help. What can we do to help build this? All of these things are critical elements, and we all work a little different. We all have a little different style, and that's okay. But we need somebody on the other side that matches that. Some people, it doesn't matter. They're just full steam ahead. And if that's you, that's fine. Then this episode is probably of no real significance to you. But I've been at mediocre companies with a great leader, and it works because they fight for the right comp plan for you. Because, you know, some of us are on a mission, but some of us are just looking to be successful, sell a lot of product. We don't have to be on this theoretical mission to sell new this or new that. We can just be, you know, making good money, progressing our career, building a company so that we can, you know, finance our lifestyle and our retirement. It's all up to us. It's all individual. But be conscious of it before, because just like a deal, if you fall into the trap, once you start at that company, you You kind of have to follow it through for a year or 2. Otherwise, it looks pretty bad on your resume. Now, that's not my judgment call. That's kind of hiring managers. I see a lot of not so much resumes but LinkedIn profiles where there's a lot of job hopping, less than a year or less than 2 years. And if I was a hiring manager, I would say, well, why is there no traction And I— that could be completely justifiable because there's so many moving things. Companies, uh, you know, get funding, hire too many people. It could not— could have nothing to do with the rep's performance, but it's still our income. So if you go to a company and you're not having success, you're not making money, you're not happy, the time to think about, can I really work with this person, is before you take that job. And you can say, well, I'll take this until I find something better. Oh, okay, but it's still on your resume. It's still your life. It's still your lifestyle. The time to think of it is early, and the best way to really understand what the person's like is to talk to people who have worked with them, not just the disgruntled people. And not just their friends who work for them, but a cross-section. What's their style? How do they act under pressure at the end of the quarter? Do they protect the people? Do they see their job as working the inside of the company to support you in selling, or do they just see themselves as a cheerleader or a—

A warrior.

Somebody with a whip to get things done. Everyone's got a different style. And do they really pull out of you what you need to be successful, or are they just judging you on their interpretation of what you're doing? It's not easy. I get it. It's not easy on either side. But to be happy and to be creative in sales We have to have that support because when I go into a company to train, I can just tell what the manager's like when I walk into the room. If the people are all sitting around talking and, you know, really excited about the product, I know I've got a great manager. If they're just sitting there scared to death, all quiet and having their pencils and looking forward, I know the manager's kind of a little tough. Tight. And the, the blame game feels good, but it doesn't pay well. It does feel well. It does. I, I love venting.

I got a podcast.

I can vent all day, but it doesn't— oh, the podcasts pay well, but at the company you only get paid for closing deals. Venting Doesn't pay well. That's it. If you have some management issues, send me a little note on LinkedIn. If you see my stuff fly by, I'd really appreciate a little like, a little comment, a little share. Tell a friend about the show. I really appreciate that. And if you want to become better at sales, join me at b2brevenue.com. Here's what we do for you. We record all the office hours, all the one-on-ones, so it's this living evolving course. I share what I learn, I share what other people are learning, and it gives you both a community and a way of becoming better at sales at your pace. You can do it all day long if you want. There's enough content and examples and case studies in there because that's how you learn something called the complex sale. You have to get absorbed into it. This sitting back and, oh, I'll do it, I'll be reactive. Uh, no, you can do that, but that's called losing a deal. You need to be proactive, be thinking through this as many times as possible. This is a performance. The best thing about it is that you need to practice. And how do you practice? You can hear other people going through it, or you can do it live in front of the customer. One will increase your income, one will decrease it. It's up to you. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening.